No Prerequisite for Truth - 17th October 2018

So, what is the essence? All you have to do is clear away these stains, which are the thinking of the discriminating intellect. What is this discriminating intellect? It makes the interpretation, the judgment: yes, no, good, bad. We make these distinctions with discriminations. That's what we've been speaking about. And that's why I've been saying that those who are truly open are those who are completely overtired of the intellect. They've tried using the intellect to get to this truth and come to various conclusions based on their reasoning, judgment, intellect—that 'this is it,' 'this is not it,' 'this is it,' 'this is not it.' But they have tried all these tactics, all these delusions, and they've come to a place where the intellect is tired. We see that all of these conclusions are empty; I can't rest on them. So, you move away from the clinging of the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal brain thoughts, too, are like empty space. So, they can all come and go in this empty space of you. Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes. Then your being is just being.

Now, this discriminating intellect is very sneaky because even upon hearing these words, it will make a judgment about them and say, 'Yes, this is what I have to do now.' You see? But even that conclusion is from the intellect. So, let go of that also. Yes, yes. And if the same said intellect uses concepts for its conclusions... oh, you put mercy, yeah. So, intellect is that which is using these concepts as evidence for its conclusion. So then it says, 'The world is like this,' 'This is true,' 'Therefore, oh, this yesterday he did something which was bad, so he must be a bad person.' You see? All these interferences, all this inferring capability, is intellect. It's all mind. But if you were to make these segregations, you would call reasoning and judgment as intellect, and you will call the appearance of just this concept using as just mind. It's an aspect of the mind, literally. But it is a utility in a way to reason, to discriminate between even two and four. As far as the self-concept is concerned, you say, 'Yes, yes, we use our intellect to discriminate between two and four.' That is the intellect. So, in a way, to exercise the power of belief is that power to give something to tell you 'yes.' So, these discriminations, even of two and four, right and wrong, yes and no, is the intellectual capacity of the mind of the being.

So, clinging to the discriminating intellect... so all you have to do, according to this sage, if there is a doing, it is to not give in to this. This is the way. I'd love to not make any conclusions. Yes, even not this. It's coming out: 'discriminating intellect and your false, unreal brain thoughts, too, are like empty space.' So, in the space of your being, the thinking of these thoughts, which are all false, unreal brain thoughts, is here but does not affect the space. So, they also remain like space. When you're not discriminating, you see that this is a thought, this is not, then all is empty space. 'Detached from all the clinging of the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal brain thoughts, too, are like empty space.' You're not even discriminating between thought and no-thought, or like mind and no-mind. You don't even make that distinction. Ultimately, even discernment has to dissolve. You can use discernment in the sense of 'this is changing, therefore it cannot be the reality of me.' So, you can use this power to discern that which is the changing versus not changing. The river was a done deal. But as you come to that recognition, then even this duality of wholesome, true, real, unreal, changing, and unchanging starts to dissolve.

So, discernment is a useful provisional step which you would say, 'Okay, I'm really clinging onto something which is just changing; this is not going to bring any permanent joy into my life.' That can be discerned. But after a while, we come to this where you are not taking the position of even making a distinction between real and unreal. But you can also forget about it after a point, because we're talking about a typical journey, but we can forget about all those notions also, right? If you forgot about this discriminating intellect and allowed everything to come and go, and you are not discriminating between even space and not space, being and not being—none of these applied or were the same—then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes. This is just some reassurance. But actually, then if you let go of the discriminating intellect, I mean, it is unimpeded. Going, coming, all of that is just motion. This is just like an answer to the mind, as if 'if I do this, then what will happen?' which is still coming to the intellect, as these are still our inferences. This is reassuring you, saying, 'Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded.' It means that the cognition, whether through our sense perception, it should not be covered, should not sit at the ballot sheet, you know? Will you know? Yes.

But something even further than that is that whatever is happening through perception, that's happening effortlessly. But if we mean by information, we mean conceptual knowledge, then it doesn't even turn into that. It's just like—I keep taking this example—the baby drinking milk from the mother. It does not have the concept, the information that 'I have to now drink milk and this is how I can do it.' It is just naturally unfolding. Then our life becomes like that of a child, of the innocence of a child, which unfolds in its only natural intelligence and beauty. But we are not making... like, it depends on what you mean by information. If you just mean by information just your perception in the quiet, then that is not sense. So, what happens is, what is all the intellectual knowledge that we have acquired? Our labels on top of the perception that we have. And sometimes just labels without even perceptions—second-hand, using second-hand conceptual knowledge. So, this information can safely be dropped. Dropping becomes very difficult; we should not allow them to seep into our seat. But even that it is difficult is also information. Like, a child does not know it is difficult. How do you know? When did you start to know this? Were you born with this, that it is difficult? No, you were not born with it. You see, we picked it up somewhere along the way. We probably came to some spiritual place and we were told, 'Oh, kill the ego' or 'kill the mind' or something like that. And the mind itself came and said, 'Oh, it's difficult.' Oh, you thought, and you feel like you tried and it doesn't feel like it is done or easy. So then you may make this intellectual conclusion that it is difficult.

You end up giving birth to this what you call information. Now, give birth to this sort of loss of innocence is the notion. Pick up the notion of 'me'. Why marry it if it did not apply to you? This is the thing, you see. Now what happens is, when you have a hurt, the doctor tells us, 'Don't scratch the hurt; it will only become worse.' But you have to scratch it if you like. Okay, I derive some pleasure out of that. You only end up making it worse. So, indulging our mind and indulging with our notions, it offers you, 'Yes, at least you will get something out of this. At least, you know, you're making some progress.' Something. It comes with reassurance, but actually, it just becomes part of identity.

There is no reason to replace this innocence with any notion, because in that life, the idea that this being, this existence, cannot take care of itself—it needs a 'me' to run this life. If you start to think about even this, of course you will say, 'Well, as I need music, how will I pay my bills? How will I do my status?' You see, there is a guru to this, my love. Obviously, it will come with these kind of reports. But never in any moment have you needed a notion to exist, and never in any moment of existence has there been anything missing. Discrimination, you know exactly that. Exactly to say is you saying, 'Let go of this discriminating intellect, your judgments which you feel like your life is on the basis of, and return to this innocence.'

And so, the one to say it's an effortless mind, wonder, wonder this mind. You would say the innocence of a child. Now, because this identified or this intellect or this notional engine has had the primacy for so long, upon hearing this, it is bound to react and say, 'But, but, but, but, but, but this, but that, but this.' It's like a child who's not getting invited to the party. 'I want to come. I will want to keep knocking away.' Like, 'Me? I have something good for you. I have a great birthday gift.' Okay, I know the last time I just came and I promised you there would be gifts but you got nothing, but this time I really have something useful. So these offers have been coming for lifetimes. Now it becomes a point where we get so tired of them working them too. Now, if each offer from the mind is too good to refuse, this is the thing. This is the graph of the seeker identity.

The sage will never say you do not need adornment, cultivation, or realization to attain it. The notion of realization is also this notion. Like we saw yesterday, like we have so many concepts around this one notion of realization. Like, 'Is the master self-realized?' Then in that, also he, you know, gets identified. You know, these kind of things come because we have an idea of realization. Once you have this notion of what it should be like, then already you are already caught up in a conceptual box of what freedom should be. Now, if freedom is a conceptual box, it cannot be freedom if it is itself limited that it can only be like this and not like that. How can we call it freedom? It would then be limited by that construct. Only what can happen to us is something like that. How can that be freedom? It still sounds like constriction.

So we don't need any special adornment, any special skills, any special technique, any special bodily adornment, any special way of acting. You don't need any sort of cultivation, like 'I have to make some progress every day,' although it can feel like that in the outward play. It might appear like that, but all of that is not it. And even this notion of realization, you don't even look at those common qualities of realization. Actually, as I was saying, when I got realization—kidding you not—even if I achieved my self-realization, there is really hardly anything to it like that. I see it is you saying, 'It is just this.' Yeah.

What does it mean for you, this term realization then? Can the term realization exist when you see it? What does it mean? Whatever the suffering, suffering comes, will stop. Then those confusion don't... it's not clarity. Any plates, any other side benefits? And here's benefits in waking state or dreams, like a constant avoidance in the end of the cycle of birth and death. What about that one? What to do with all of this?

Forget it. Forget it. And to whom? Exactly. That's when I forget, because the one to whom these would apply as objective, you know, the objective owner of all of this, is just made up. There are so many knots. Yes, what is the key? I forget the master's control. Yes, this is my population. Let us see. We can upload the passage in our fresh way.

The Buddha said: 'If you want to know the realm of Buddhahood, you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave all thinking and all grasping far behind, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn. The realm of Buddhahood is not some external world where there is a formal Buddha; it is the realm of the wisdom of an awakened sage. Once you are determined that you want to know this realm, you do not need adornment, cultivation, or realization to attain it. You must sweep away the stains of affliction from within sensations that have been on your mind since beginningless time, so that your mind is as broad and open as empty space, detached from all the clinging of the discriminating intellect. And all your false and your green thoughts too are like empty space. Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes.'

Picking up and dropping off in a way instructs the juniors.

Yes, exactly. The seeker is so... not even this discrimination what is making between anything, including even picking up or dropping. What is funny thing, you will become nice there for me. Are you saying then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes? That sounds... let's see if you agree. One more. The second letter is called mindlessness. An ancient worthy had the same ingenuity, an ancient sage had the same: 'To look for the ox, one must see its tracks. To study the path, seek out mindlessness. But where the tracks are, so must the ox be. The path of mindlessness is easy to seek out.'

So-called mindlessness is not being inert to unknowing like earth, wood, tile, or stone. It means that the mind is settled and imperturbable when in contact with situations, anything, circumstances; that it does not cling to anything but is clear in all places without hindrance or obstruction, without being stained, yet without dwelling in the stainlessness. The very nice part is positive. So anytime we can get caught up in this idea, so this is 'without hindrance or obstruction, without being stained, yet without dwelling in the stainlessness.' Otherwise, you can pick up the idea that 'I must now just hold on to some, you know, emptiness' or something like that. But it is not either. It is just completely open, completely. Even attention goes wherever it wants without the clinging. Completely open means without any clinging. Closed means only to cling, to attach is to be closed. Open means no clinging, open like space.

So this is using various terms to see the same: open like space, unimpeded, unobstructed, calm, and not even holding on to the idea of stainlessness. Big wind energy. Just what is it that I try to come a little closer? We actually hide certain things from ourselves. It's like the stainlessness is what you're saying. Certain aspects when we feel let down by our own selves, 'Wow, this is not my signature, you know, this is not I.' You know, maybe making that conclusion then it should feel like this, it should be so free, it should be so happy. And then secondly, you know, we walked out of our today, we're walking in some of these brushes from... so even that stainlessness clarifies that I've been saying this, that this is free from all opposites. Everything that has an opposite, you can safely forget about. In forgetting, you have to use the original statement and then wipe them off also. Otherwise, you can get stuck on the provisional statement and take that to be the ultimate truth, the absolute. But that also has to be wiped away by something that has to be constantly remembered here, even really stable. Actually, it's beautiful. It's like you're caught. No, you're caught in that. We were like that. How is it just to be open?

Can we speak of Atma? Because you want to wait for a few minutes and then say something. They often also said that 'open' is my favorite word. It's one word: open. Effortless is what comes to be careful. And this is open, which is not that open or closed, effortless or effort. It's not either of those, but just points to that jumping out of this duality.

Yeah, okay. Now don't, now don't report for a few minutes because we also jump to spiritual conclusions that we have got from so-called products people. This is a man fully open and then... and let something come naturally when you can see it all go to it, to the conclusion. Something just grabs you by... will throw that absolutely. More assistance? Yeah, just naturally. You think yesterday, sahaja? I wanted to be sahaja. That has remained the expression. But with the mind, I'm using 'but I want this forever, I want it only to be like this.' This will pass. Exist at all in the words of sage Bobby McFerrin, whatever it is. Basically, a cappella singing without instruments. A cappella. Grab the rhinestones, yes, and then drop. Dropped mind. Don't explain anything here, no matter how tasty it might sound, including this one. Has to have to talk to my... yeah, like it's sinking in.

You've gathered good. It just keeps running itself or dissolving, self-destructing. This message will self-destruct as soon as you're empty. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to be as small to get used to talking somewhere else.

As long as it's not a distraction. It's one thing I really enjoy about that versus working ways, like don't cling to it instead of, you know, get rid of it, or also instead of saying don't use it, which I think is important because like the mind does function sometimes in a relatively useful way. But it is that clinging that is more like a felt sense and then it becomes less appealing, you know, like unburdening.

Yes, and I find that well, I'm very put in place: 'without being stained, yet without dwelling in the stainlessness.' Look at that. That can be also a position that you take very strong, and it's probably like the biggest constriction of all, this sort of feeling as though you have to somehow plant, like honor that then your discovery by living as that as an undertaking. It's like in sorrow and just to, just just to release in the back into... because actually that which is being discovered, like it doesn't depend on any particular way. It's so whatever present is, and it's open. Yeah, everything me, free me to bringing and yes, and without, without... if you were to try and do a donkey and infinite regress, like you see, if you're trying to, it would be so... basically the advice is just it's already available, it's here naturally. Leave it without you clinging to the happen to leave it, because everything then becomes like, 'How further back can I go?'

So once we pass up the reach, it becomes a possible direct rate. And if you get to conceptualize, then it becomes a position, political ability. 'Get with a out dwelling in the stainlessness. Viewing body and mind like dreams or illusions, yet without remaining in the perspectives of dreams and illusions. Empty nothingness.' But only when one arrives at a realm like this, and if we call true mindlessness, no, it's not lip-service mindlessness. If you haven't attained to mindlessness and just go by the word full time, how is it different from the perverted whatever life is putting somebody down? So you won't read that then. This, get to the root. Don't worry about the branches. Emptying this much is the root. Once you get to the root, the fundamental rule in all kinds of language and knowledge and all your daily activities, as you respond to people and adapt to circumstances through so many upsets and down forwards, like the joyous or angry, good or bad, a guru or at words, these are all trivial matters, the branches.

All the time, how is it different from the perverted whatever life is putting somebody down? So you won't read that then. This, get to the root. Don't worry about the branches. Emptying this much is the root. Once you get to the root, the fundamental rule in all kinds of language and knowledge and all your daily activities, as you respond to people and adapt to circumstances through so many upsets and down-forwards, like the joyous or angry, good or bad, a guru or at words—these are all trivial matters, the branches. If you can be spontaneously aware and knowing as you go along with circumstances, then there is neither lack nor excess.

So you don't have to cling to 'it has to be just like this' or 'it has to be only joyous' and 'it has to all this activity must all pull.' It should not happen. It is not about, like we keep saying, not about the outer expression, but about this notion of the space and positions. I feel like this item is a bit attractive, so okay. So this one says: 'Then the ox. Since you are studying this part, then at all times in your encounters with people and responses to circumstances, you must not let wrong thought continue. If you cannot see through them, then the moment the wrong thought comes up...' See if I help you with this one a bit. 'If you cannot see through them, then the moment the wrong thought comes up, you should quickly concentrate your mental energy to pull yourself away. If you always follow these thoughts and let them continue without a break, not only does this obstruct the path, but it makes you out to be a man without wisdom.'

If the world is a sham, as in the old days, we shall ask, 'Lazy An, what work do you do during twenty-four hours of the day?' 'No, instead I attend an ox.' We shun said, 'How do you tend it?' An said, 'Whenever it gets into the grass, I pull it back by the nose.' We shun said, 'You're really tending the ox.' People who study the power in controlling wrong thoughts should be like Lazy An tending his ox. Then gradually a wholesome ripening will take place of itself. And gradually wholesome ripening will take place of itself. It's similar—there's this passage—it is similar to what Bhagavan said in terms of: as long as it feels like effort, make the effort. One day you will see that that is also great because any time we can get into this sort of mental like, 'Oh, am I... I do not believe my thoughts, I'm not to do it.' I feel like this kind of sort of too much, you know, conceptual position, making a position.

So this, like if it feels like a bit of effort to step back from these positions, or when you at least spot that this is the position, just notice that without applying a position on top of it. 'Oh, I see that just happened' and using 'it's fine' or something like that. I have to find... not find, is noticing it, but not to make a conclusion about yourself based on that. Even the conclusion that either 'I am the doer' or 'not the doer' because this use of a greater knowledge to make a position then becomes very sticky. So even now, some of you might not be voting things, but this is what I was going to say. Like, this you're noticing like as it is. So what you're doing is you don't have to take a shovel to get out. You do not do anything. There is no such a limit anyway. But don't add on more concepts about yourself based on what you learn spiritually.

Another thing, my thought... oh, say something again. What did you say before? Thoughts, you just see passages, although they might accept your claims. If all some real wind wants to on, I can please, please disperse. I have not yet... this discriminating intellect is likely as pointers. Just the medicine is doing its job on its own. Like in the introduction to the book 'Consciousness Speaks' with conscious man, there it is that it is spoken, is constantly speaking of consciousness. No personal intervention is needed. So you don't have to invent yourself and the understander of all of this. These words work subtle. Any others? Openness. These words will do their job on their own. If you try to dissect them, understand them to be the same, started by saying, 'Stop your discriminating intellect,' and then you have to apply it to even these, even these. That's why I'm calling the provisional truth, because another way I see it is to build idle topic without the idea of statelessness is like a sword to the false ideas. Yes.

Let me read one more and see how I do. 'Do not grasp another's bow, do not ride another's horse, do not meddle in others' affairs.' This is a commonplace saying. It can also be sustenance for entering the path. Just examine yourself constantly from morning to night. What do you do to help others and help yourself? If you notice even the slightest partiality or insensitivity... oh yeah, I'm also reading this for the first time. If you don't hold me to these kind of words. If you notice even the slightest partiality or insensitivity, you must admonish yourself. Don't be careless about this.

In the old days, Zen Master Tao Lin lived up in the tall pine tree on Chin-wang Mountain. People of the time called him the Bird's Nest Master. The minister Po Chu-i was a commander of Chiang-tang. He made a special trip to the... wanted to visit him. Po says, 'It's very dangerous where you're sitting, Zen Master.' The Master said, 'My danger may be very great, Minister, but yours is even greater.' Po said, 'I am commander of Chiang-tang, and what danger is there?' The Master said, 'If fuel and fire are joined, consciousness and identity do not still. How can you not be in danger?' Po also asked, 'What is the overall meaning of the Buddhist teaching?' The Master said, 'Don't commit an evil practice, the many virtues.' Po said, 'Even a three-year-old child could say this.' The Master said, 'Though a three-year-old child can say it, an eighty-year-old man cannot carry it out.' Po then bowed and departed.

Now, if you want to see it, mental power, do not become concerned with whether or not a three-year-old child can see it or whether or not an eighty-year-old man can carry it out. Just don't do any evil. And Zen Master, these words, they apply whether you believe or not. So please think it over as if worthy people... okay, this is very much about ethics. I'll read the next one. 'The mind's conceptual discrimination. The obstruction of the path by the mind and its conceptual discrimination is worse than poisonous snakes or fierce tigers. Why? Because poisonous snakes and fierce tigers can still be avoided, whereas intelligent people make the mind's conceptual discrimination their home, so that there's never a single instance, whether they're walking, standing, sitting, or lying down, that they know that they don't have dealings with it, that they are not having dealings with it.'

As time goes on, unknowing and unawares, they become one piece with it. One piece, P-I-E-C-E, and not because they want to either, but because since beginningless time they have followed this one little road until it becomes set and familiar. Though they may see through it for a moment and wish to detach from it, they still can't. Thus it is said that poisonous snakes and fierce tigers can still be avoided, but the mind's conceptual discrimination truly has no place for you to escape. I very much like this one. It's a bit strong, but sometimes I take to the top hit and say: is it the obstruction of path by the mind and its conceptual discrimination is worse than poisonous snakes or fierce tigers?

You know what is... you talk about this conceptual discrimination, this intellectual distinction, making distinctions between, making our deadlines, giving truth value or not to things. Why? Because poisonous snakes and fierce tigers can still be avoided, whereas intelligent people make the mind's conceptual discrimination their home, so that there's never a single instant, whether they are walking, standing, sitting, or lying down, that they are not having dealings with it. As time goes on, unknowing and unawares, they become one piece with it, and not because they want to either, but because in the beginning they have followed this one little rule until it has become set and familiar. Though they have... so they may see through it for a moment and wish to detach from it, they still can't. Thus it is said that poisonous snakes and fierce tigers can still be avoided, but the mind's conceptual discrimination truly has no place for you to escape.

Is it within itself? There is no escape. You cannot escape this conceptualizing by using the conceptualizing mind itself or using another conclusion. At best, at best, there whatever truth I'm producing often today is a provisional truth. It seems to learn like the tallness, but one would say the self-destructive. But mostly what happens is those the intelligent people, as he calls them, feel that the freedom from this trap will also be another thing. If you were sleeping and your father had to wake you up, then the words that he's using to wake you up are just words that he's using to wake you up. They are not by themselves some truth. So they are not itself to be held on to, right? As you're waking up, which is important. And so exactly what he means when you just don't make tattoos out of my words, because all masters are using them because it is not in it. The truth is not go ahead, take your point to them. And at their best they can point to them; at their worst they just collapse in a way, just limited boundaries.

They follow this one little until it becomes set and familiar. We select our approach to life is to try and resolve it mentally. Even our spiritual quest, you feel like we have to resolve it mentally till we come to a mental resolution. It is all like all question, like all question. We started with an idea of what should happen, what you were in class. See, then you have to go to class for familiar own. You go into a class, you learn certain things, you learn them well enough to be able to reproduce them, then you move on to them. So this freedom thing, we also get into it feeling like it will be like that. One side, know enough about the truth and I can clearly... enlightenment certification. Strange type of class is like you learnt that, okay, you believe that also. We have we learnt that from this class, we'll give that also. Many times initially the protest can be, 'But you told me.' Yeah, I know, but leave it. Or you bring out the big guns and say, 'I want a heart.' Said, 'Yeah, let's do it.'

Looking lately, I presume there's a little behind this all that we'll remember, but we'll forget too. But one said, when he said all these also just forms to be men ultimately and to be thrown when you see. Yeah, but Maya day is a bit differently because to kill them also because the latest operation, some more attracted to a more sort of rebellious sort of spirituality can also make that into a position. Look at this one trying to take a holy place for himself and is going to go kill yourself. I proved to him that either you like this kind of thing, that can also become very personal. What is meant originally was that let go of your objective version of freedom. Like to say it started, if you feel like you will find the Buddha externally, forget about it. That's not what the Buddha is. If you are not true unobstructed being, it's what killing men. But we take it very... we like we apply it to this.

So those who traverse the path of their intellect very easily in their lives, then sometimes it can feel like they rely on it a bit longer because they feel that this is what has helped them in the past. If they got me through this problem, through this problem too, so now I'll just leave this problem of spirituality also in my intellect and one day it will say, 'I am Rama itself' or something, and that'll be it. With that knowledge, I will be free. But what can the intellect do with non-conceptual knowing? At best it can make some fancy statements about it in the negative things. It cannot be this way, it can be that way. It's a yet forgotten enlightenment. Somebody asked him, 'What did you get?' 'I didn't get anything. I lost everything.' Yes, can the man learn to say 'I don't know' and to submit itself, or is the mind always in opposition to become my ideas?

Say, 'I am Ram itself' or something, and that'll be it. With that knowledge, I will be free. But what can the intellect do with non-conceptual knowing? At best, it can make some fancy statements about it in the negative things: 'It cannot be this way, it can be that way.' It's a yet-forgotten enlightenment. Somebody asked him, 'What did you get?' He said, 'I didn't get anything; I lost everything.' Yes, can the man learn to say 'I don't know' and to submit itself? Or is the mind always in opposition to become my ideas? They learn to say 'I don't know' and to so that...

Yeah, it's like it's inside out. It's gonna remain like... obviously the mind is not conscious of anything, but like, you know, we can recognize where the mind's useful function begins and ends within phenomenal life. So rather than, obviously, the mind trying to solve... you know what I mean? Look at that on the other side. Like, you could argue that another definition of the mind is basically that it's always in opposition to what is.

Let's look at both aspects. So yeah, the first part is whether the mind adapts. I've seen that it is. From here, experience, I can say it is a lot less fighting, you know, a lot less resentful in its content. It tries to be more like the helpful bit. So that is... it can change its parts in that way. But in terms of truly becoming helpful, that would then mean that there is someone here other than God. Otherwise, in the sense that somebody who needs that assistance actually would then have to exist for the mind to be able to assist them. So I would say rather than helpful, I would say more playful, funny.

Oh yeah. What about like creativity? That creative impulse, that like stroke of genius, even, one could say, comes from within and affects the mind, I would say. But at the same time, it's not the same. It's like very linear, always repeating itself in the same pattern as the same judgments, you know? It comes almost like from a higher creativity.

All creativity comes from that which creates, even my hunger. So this is... sometimes, of course, it will give you some glimpses of something, but it has to go to that from which it emerges in the way, if any credit is there, this creativity.

So would you say like the mind has no function, useful function?

I would say that if you... but I mean, do that box of useful in usefulness, not useful or not useful. If then you're already caught up in that, yeah. So would an answer like not a peek okay?

Yeah, I feel like I need an answer here. You know, it's just the message overall today seems to be that let's step out of all the opposition. And also then, is it useful or not? Is also in that paradigm.

You need... like I was saying that, like that interview I had recently with the journalist who said, 'You're talking about consciousness or Self or something like that.' And then he said something like, 'But actually at the end of the day, we're human.' And it's a very acceptable idea in the world. Even the whole spirituality, all spirit, all talk of all of this is fine, but let's get real for a minute. Did that duality of humanity versus spirituality enter that thing? And I said, 'What if I just don't buy the reference point? What if I don't agree to that reference point that we are human? Is it too scandalous?' So, my sisters, in the same way, if we can step out of this bloody... we open to the possibility that everything is neither useful nor useless. We withdraw it from that height, we withdraw from it, yeah. Because that also, in a way, can be a way to make a limited reference point to what this is or what anything is.

Yeah, like I've heard on a separate point, because you mentioned that it was something that I was interested in and am interested in, but like, it's this school of thought, you could say, that if you leave even behind all ideas of separation, so from the perspective of clear seeing, yeah, that clear seeing, like there's a recognition that arises within itself of its own nature. And then like certain teachers I've heard say, 'Leave it at that.' Basically, like, not even leave it at that, that there's somebody who can leave it at that, but almost as though that clear seeing then leaves itself at that. And others who say, 'Either actually the nature of this knowingness is to sort of then like re-enter itself or like to explore itself now that it's not like in opposition to itself through this instrument of the mind.' Does that make sense? Maybe I'm not really describing very well.

No, no, it's like Adyashanti talks about it a lot. So he says if it equals an embodiment, and so he says like it's actually the nature of awareness to this guy, so now how the perceptions being corrected, so to speak. You like, it's the nature of true seeing to... because it doesn't need to maintain any distance from it. It's so an experience, it's self, therefore it's like it's processed then. He's kind of like a constant intimacy and merging, and so that he calls that embodiment. And he says that like there is a human element to that, so that basically like source is experiencing yourself like as human beings, one of its integrations. And so it's not... it doesn't necessarily want to remain like lofty and detached; it actually wants to really re-enter the human experience.

Okay, I've got all of them. My level, yeah, I read some great evidence, but for me, freedom is like very big. If you're able to define and say that this is how it must be or it should be or it even it usually is... at best we can see 'usually,' which is quite open. But I mean, if something becomes that it should be, then it's no longer then freedom, is it? There is no reason why consciousness has to be only a certain way when if then you doesn't have to have that flow chart, is it? Because then it would seem... it wouldn't seem like freedom to me. And why would you want to experience the same things with intently in so many expressions? Could be in some way just, you know, modern-day masters will come and share satsang. I won't say this has to be this way or doesn't have to be this way. That didn't sound yet freedom.

Oh no, I didn't mean it like, 'Does it have to be like this or like this?' It was just more if you think it usually... it does think it's fine. No, no, just I'm just like enquiring. Yeah, what I'm just talking about what I seem to hear, which was that once we come to a true recognition about ourselves, then it sort of behooves us to... what if you hear imported goods or something? Because you were saying that like you'd have this chat with somebody and he was saying like, 'Yeah, but what about it comes down to being human?' It's about saving systems like in some teachers, and I'm not saying that in the battle of the teachers, yeah, like yeah, they would maybe an agree and say like, 'Actually yeah, it is... there is an element of it that's human because like yes, that is discovering itself during the human form as opposed to doesn't have to pull in a way work to monitor allow a human nature to one for as it must and I remained as I am.'

All over this one, do this one. It's fully, fully free. Some can say with it's like the Buddha says, nothing with some can feel like, 'Yeah, there's all these for myself, but what point is it unless I bring all mine brothers and sisters also into it?' You can still have that, and we know that it's concept too. They know that it's like that, but that seems to be whether energy is coming forward, you know, the light is coming towards moving the particular body-mind in that direction. And some can just be like, 'I've just become a recluse in the mountain and always be clean.' Even so, how do you like consequences will be for you to experience itself in all those ways? I think that's what I'm getting at.

Because sometimes like I don't want to like subscribe to a particular school because they're all like spokes of the same wheel basically in a way. And I can see that and like I appreciate that sometimes within like within non-duality, like what we would call Advaita, they cannot sometimes almost be like a kind of a thoughtful stop, almost as though it's like, 'Yeah, you know.' And even like I was reading... I mean, I hope you guys... I was reading something the other day, it was saying how basically like self-inquiry is like the final and ultimate path. And I can see that, I can see that because I understand it like, well, otherwise you can remain as basically a spiritual person instead of spirit in direct experiencing. But I just feel like, like you say, freedom so vast that it can include everything and it can also like beyond awakening, it can... you know what we call waking, like it can continue to experience itself in different ways in so many different expressions because it is unlimited, of course. And so sometimes I almost feel like maybe in within Advaita there can be a tendency to kind of agree on these like absolutes, these terms, and say like, 'Yes, this is so and so.' And naturally, like, I don't know.

Yeah, I think that so what do you think you could do that many times can happen like that? Somebody has a strong spiritual experience, but the memory of that spiritual experience and the conclusion of that you can also then become a very egoic... put it, take that 'this is how my life is going to be now' or something like that. So in any part, any form, I wouldn't even go as far as to say that we have to say that this is the ultimate and final goal. Self-inquiry is not. Imagine whatever pushes you out from this duality where does what basically that they don't... so make no distinction. There are no distinctions even between being wrong beings; that is a greater end. So but then we pull the chair this way if it is to, 'Okay, I am going to see who I am,' or to pull the chair this way which is that, 'I just surrender everything that concerns me.' Is how were you to share another way and see that all these concepts are buncombe anyway? It's all coming to this stepping back from this dualistic nature of the mind and reversing queries. I mean, even meditation, whatever. So I think we can become very dogmatic about these things sometimes. They don't... normal human tendency has to be the best, you know? Experiment to find out, man. But you're right when you're saying that even in Advaita there is a lot of position-taking going on. We don't have to, but if you come and say so and if you are carrying pointed out, we would have not working. I'm invited to have a tendency, no holding back to the second variant. I key consciousness enlightened, entitled to experience itself in that way. This what happens in anymore, at least from this experience I can say what's happening more and more, that this 'should have to' use, yeah, seemed to become very light.

Maybe it's because like the words of these very direct teachings sort of like... but you said either there is a kind of map for the mind basically to try and orient it in a different direction. And but when they're interpreted by the mind, they do sound very much like there's this kind of like point of awakening which is like, you know, knowable by the mind. And actually as far as I've experienced, like actually when the words like hit some healing and a clarity's there, it's actually the opposite. Like everything opens up and it opens up so, so incredibly vastly that like nothing can contain that. And even sometimes these ultimate points actually just seem kind of like things like, you know, very limit.

You're saying it away. Yes, that's it. You just grid. You're human. Re-reading the Gita the other day, and in one words this gate says once you come to the reckoning, you know, I am paraphrasing, once you recognize what the truth is, then you will be away even from the duality of 'I am Brahman.' And they said, maybe to the mind she said, 'But how is that duality to say I am Brahman?' Because it's the most non-dualistic statement. If you know it, then this example came up that have you ever met anyone asserting that 'I have a mouth'? That assertion itself opens the possibility of the opposite being possible. So if you see, if we still have to assert 'I am Brahman'...

Come to the reckoning. You know, I am paraphrasing: once you recognize what the truth is, then you will be away even from the duality of 'I am Brahman.' And they said, 'But how is that duality to say I am Brahman? Because it's the most non-dualistic statement.' If you know it, then this example came up: have you ever met anyone asserting that 'I have a mouth'? That assertion itself opens the possibility of the opposite being possible. So if you see, if we still have to assert 'I am Brahman,' that means that the negation is also possible. That's why we have to keep asserting it. But for the bird, the negation of this is just not possible; therefore, we need not the assertion. This duality, that's why on point topics... because I would also not say that we can make a template out of it. It ends here. Nothing should be spoken because in this play you have also seen that how these provisionals don't seem to pass in a way where output silence is not so thick. We will go back to where we started. Nothing that I just have to say that it's so broad that you can't really say that this is how it is.

It's also an aspect of our discriminating intellect that it makes this distinction between what it thinks is right and wrong and say, 'Okay, so this must be like this' or 'This must be like that.' What did we talk about those opposites? Sixth sense? What is that? If you dip, you have nothing with you. What is right and what is wrong? Is that what sixth sense is? There's a movie where this one could see... I heard sixth sense being used more like this, like intuitive faculty, being able to say, 'I feel like my daughter's hands can come the same.' You can't... there's nothing in the perception which is like that, which this sometimes intuitive sense can come. The sixth sense usually I've heard being referred to this right and wrong, better and... you get this high damage. Still, we can play. What was that? That's exactly what stories, you know, but I have never seen that correlation of sixth sense before.

You start on that, just I want to say that that story is very good for what the Zen master said. Discriminating intellect is that. Because I used to get very confused and you collect me a good little knowledge is not great, but when I read it, the version I read said it was the fruit of knowledge or something. And as a child, I was very confused because I felt like, no, this is a good thing. Yeah, a knowledge of good and bad. So I felt like, why did that cause so much trouble? Yeah, so it's only now to know one thing is to be discriminating intellect is that. Once we... it's the story of the child losing its innocence in a way. The child is not living like this. Yeah, we are growing up for a loss of innocence. It's eating that apple. Society, let's see if this makes sense. Kind of relates to the embodiment thingy. So what do you just... can you hide it off your boot? If you can, you elaborate a little more? It means embodiment.

Well, this what I'm about to say can be different or killing you. It would be like tale-ending to the body is... I don't know, it's kind of from starting from that question, what does that mean? Yeah, I mean, I know what I know what it means. You know how the sensor would look if you let me see them because it's coming up live. This to say like, would it mean that so-and-so is still waking up on some level, right? In a dream where it's mind or minds that are not separate from... that are not not if our believing that they're not free. So please leave a man on to free being, Mukti, free being. It recognizes that the Self, God, whatever is the nature of everything that it's seeing, but it's in a dream, Leela, whatever you want to call it or whatever it is, whatever this is. But not as that one, not as that one, but it can still cognize on some... this could relate to the embodiment on that stage. No one's awake. We're just saying on the level of the body, it's still walking and meeting other people and aliens, but that believing... but it can recognize that it's this is its mind on some level. It's not... it might not be its mind, but it's not not. It's not a mind that's separate from what it is. Yeah, and that mind that's not separate from what it is believes that it's not free. Yes. So is an embodiment that movement of... and if this mind that's not separate from what it is is believing in experiencing self not to be free, then that's still on some level that's awakening? If I... if it's in a dream or it's... then what does that mean? This is if it's meeting other... if it's a mind that's not... it's not separate from what it is and it can recognize that it's free, then that's not... no, not another mind is not seen to perform or dizziness.

So okay, so you mean the mind is believing in the sense that then you will have to include even the beingness itself in mind. Is that what you were saying?

I'm saying the mind believing the mind. So let's say I'm saying that a free being, even I can recognize, meets me and I say, 'Oh, free recognize, listen, you are not separate from what is. This is only a belief that's being held.' But this is happening within a dream. Meaning, I mean, isn't there just incomprehensible embodiment that's just waiting to happen because it's in a dream? This part is now we can take and explore this part. Is embodiment meaning it's... it can at least recognize the perception of belief in separation? You're feeling death all around it. It's not calling itself it, but it can still recognize a sea of that confusion. And that confusion, it's not... can't be claimed that it's my confusion, but it also can't be claimed whether it's not my confusion. It's in a sea of confusion on some level. It's not obvious. I'm not... I'm asking you if on the other side a little bit, but I'm saying it because it's a lot of times to somebody so you get back into in a way.

Is it like this? As we have this conversation, then let's speak in the boundary. Let's admit to that boundary that, okay, I am speaking only as Ananta, not as... and we will admit to that boundary first. And then we admit to that boundary that as Ananta, I have to presume maybe a lot of things about Andy, that this must be what is happening, the mind must be there, there must be some belief in this. And in a way, like a doctor to prescribe to you that if you take this or come to your motionlessness or something, because under the presumption that you could be suffering in that way, we have to operate. Is that nobody would do anything on it under the distant knowing that Andy is not separate from that which I am.

Yes, yes. But on top of that, no interruption in that dream of Andy who believes he is separate. And I'm in an apparent room with a dream believing it's separate. No, we're not in the Indian apparent room. This is here and in an apparent dream of two feet from this body, in an apparent belief with energy on some level living and suffering and separation. So this has to be presumed.

And so doesn't it get tricky on some level where... where it took it? No, where this sense of... how can I say that? Just like it's kind of just seems to me long extension if weakness was here and there was a pain in my knee, yeah, with Brahman, yeah. Will the embodiment or whatever... or I don't know, my daughter passed away, yeah. And there with the embodiment conversation would be, you know, you don't have to be like... but it's... it just seems like that doesn't stop. It's a human experience. It's like it's everywhere. I mean, and this is your life really. I mean, your life is you particularly means, but it's just being of service in this way. But I guess, you know, like it... hmm. If there seems to be different things, like in A Course in Miracles sometimes it talks about like this whole dream doesn't really end until everyone... until this recognition with everything that you were received to be another creature is realized. Yeah, I'd like to put this. A contributor also said that when I woke up, the whole world woke up. So you can't really come to any like conclusions about that as the final truth or something.

Yeah, I do. I guess the reason I... it has a nice feeling that I haven't rejected is this is kind of a loosening of the sense of getting to that finish line realization. But I don't know what that means. Like I feel like this idea is not yet what has loosened up that realization, but it was... it was the sense of something is coming up here to see both the first aspect. I just feel like, and I don't think about this very much, I don't explosion I like it very much. I feel more if I had to say something about the first part of what we spoke about, like an Ananta holding the truth or something like this, I feel like if I came with that sort of intent, I feel like I'd be a little more burdened. If I came with that sort of intent to have to embody the truth. Now, I'm not making reference to whatever any other teacher might be saying, I'm just picking fresh from the experience here. I would go as far as to say that the ones, the teachers that seem to be struggling the most, are the ones who are trying to be a good teacher or trying to be a version of the truth which is like the most helpful or something like that. Because that is then you have to be replying very like careful. What is coming out of this mouth? Is this really here like this here? What is... well, in a way, if anything has worked at all, it is just to leave it and just to let this one unfold as it is unfolding.

It's all... it's a focusing essence. It seems to be a movement that I've seen with other people. They might use the word body, it's not producing the bad language, and they start speaking in more human terms. They can like... sometimes I like where you're coming from or the kiss if you're just saying and openness and it just... then it's like the mind can grab on that if you're guilty or not just trying to be open. Yeah, and you can feel another satsang within. It's sometimes hard to... but anyway, so it just seems to be similar if you have to keep up with... I don't think like in acceptance of what I was talking about, it's... I agree, like to set yourself a mission like as the individual, 'I'm going to embody the truth,' it's impossible. It's like China quote. I wonder if so what we should on anyone.

Yeah, it seems like to carry a persona of somebody who's working or somehow a seeker, yeah, student can see all these personas themselves. I had happy enough. Yeah, but imagine trying to carry a persona of an enlightened one. Yeah, it would be like fire trying to carry that, like trying to watch every step with 'Is this enlightened enough?' He is just like... it seems like too much, too much construction going on, trying to be just right. Yeah, so I could give it a more certain that that's not work to know. I'll be happy they will be talking.

Yeah, so I think it's like from... by the way I understood it and the way that it kind of resonated, I didn't feel like it was in conflict with like a more ultimate that way. But it seems like this song some, you know, like pointing missing that basically get you to this stage of like nothing at all. There's nothing you can cling to and just this kind of very like this least endless least identity as like a felt and experienced identity, not conceptual one as like universal spirit. And then it's even let go of that. Let's do most right, let's do 40. Okay, so it was like this obviously the felt identity's hell, I mean like to experience yourself as that. So that awareness instead of experiencing itself believing in limitations, it's now experiencing yourself clearly as unlimited experience identity and not the conceptual one. Yeah, so like obviously we have to use some kind of words. So when I say identity, I mean like if you were to say like, 'Who are you?' then the feel like the felt in a response to that question is like the recognition of universal rather than building an answer you have it so many years old living by the world like whatever. Yeah, so it's like that. And then obviously like there's this instruction in a way it is to go beyond even that, to go beyond even identifying.

Identity and not the concept, you see. Yeah, so like obviously we have to use some kind of words. So when I say identity, I mean like if you were to say like, 'Who are you?' then the felt response to that question is like the recognition of universal rather than building an answer like, 'I am so many years old, living by the world,' like whatever. Yeah, so it's like that. And then obviously, like, there's this instruction in a way, which is to go beyond even that, to go beyond even identifying with that. Then this embodiment idea seems to be that awareness—awakened awareness—which is no longer believing in these limitations. Its nature isn't—I'm not saying it should or shouldn't or always is, but this is just the idea—its nature isn't to sort of remain as this kind of lofty, self-absorbed, experienced head of state, but actually to like re-enter its human experience. Okay, beforehand response or... but even under the condition of that, it will not harm to be loved, to you know, like just feel like sometimes when we speak in satsang about anything human, it's very good people should set it aside. It's like, 'No, no, you can hold on,' and like always coming back to this sort of like, you know what I mean? Which is also like absolutely true and absolutely correct. And it just seems that this is a kind of... and for me, like, I resonate with all of it, but it doesn't seem to conflict at all. But so proceed to them not even... it's like, how does the wisdom of that recognition like hurl you back into human form and human expression? And almost, I guess like maybe the question that you might ask is, 'Well, are you sure you are in human form from that perspective?'

No, but I would also maybe see you say that naturally because we are also here as now. No, I'm saying that it's saying, but are you sure you're in human form? I would say if the question was how does that recognition then translate in our human experience, I would say no more likely say it is naturally exactly. So it's not like there's no individual doing it, but I think by, for example, Adyashanti, he's talking about like a natural movement, yeah, of the same consciousness. Yeah, first of all, there was a movement away from belief and limitation, and then there's a second movement where it's like a kind of re-entry almost, where it's like that newly awakened consciousness—not in the sense that now it's awake and it wasn't awake before, like in that sense, but that it's now that divested itself of beliefs—is now like continuing the human experience and like deepening and deepening and deepening into that experience. I think that's what everybody is like... men, okay, you are saying that. What does it mean? As far as I understood, that's what it is. Good, thank you. Thank you for... but you know, it's like, like you were saying, you know, that freedom is so free that not my helping with my not happy, okay? It's all free that we can allow even statements or this is how it should happen. If you feel like an ass in your teens, I felt like I don't feel like this so-called second movement like to do... is it like a movement to climb? Anybody able to feel like that is not so clear to detect, no? Because I just feel like I just saw that it's always been unfolding on its own and continues to unfold that way. And looking at this body and what it embodies, it seems to be very different from what it was, and but in reality, it was always important that same one. So you can... you talk more about this and the fascinating words have to say something that you guys didn't get it worth or the Templars? I'm fairly sure I'm really not doing what is this, you know? I'm just kind of going up like, I guess my only good position and memory...

I think one kind of connected to this, but it's kind of something that I'm questioning or struggling like a little bit. I feel sometimes where not-knowing inquiry or whatever, you know, dawns on the mind of it to referencing drop sense. It's very striking, but then it doesn't feel there's a thought at least that comes in. I don't know that youness isn't grounded, and there's a feeling that maybe this is disassociating from some... and if the experience was really... but it's still a little light, a little weird. But if everything kind of referencing space and this kind of drop-off, and it's just like, 'Nah, that's so ridiculous, it means nothing to all this plugging into everything.' And it's just meaningless. It's not like I'm going off into space, but it's very light. And then there's a sense of maybe I should be... then there's also sometimes big ol' maybe let me see if this makes my question clear. There's a sense I can't think anything, so I can't even take a position to open or let go in it as I can't really think anything. And then it starts feeling like I'm just floating in my mind. I feel like I have to use the mind again to kind of find... I don't know if I'm making any sense because I don't... I just sit around zero, I don't talk. But so I don't know whether I needs and I just it... I don't need an answer necessarily, but I just question. I have to get the essence of what you're saying about the future, you know? I feel like I have some sense of it. Would you feel like it isn't somebody different from what my dad is saying? Well, he said, 'I just allow my human nature to unfold on its own. I rest as I am.' Because that I would feel like resonates very much with the experience here. Would you feel like there's some difference in what you're saying with what I guess I can relate? What yours... I can relate to what your experience was as a seeker where that sense of 'What is this?' I get sometimes with your center. It's like, 'Oh, it's just I don't know.' I was seeing more in terms that we were talking about the embodiment. Is it somewhat different from what Mooji Baba was saying? He allows his humanity to unfold on its own naturally and he remains as I am. Or is it a bit... is there a bit of contrast compared to that? I can't speak of it. Yeah, I guess I could say on some level there's questions sometimes like there could be some movement with like, 'Okay, is there some heart or some voice or something?' And that's kind of having a hard time digesting all this. And sometimes it seems people that when I entertain that feels that I do it please some... well, for me alone. Yeah, it's like because like a little more sane like it... like this sanity come where it's versus like me like almost sometimes I have a sense of almost suffocated, not like actually, but yeah, it's subtle society. And I can see sometimes where there's some movement or just yeah, and then there's a sense it's like, 'Maybe yeah, but that's what's the part?' Yeah, any of that even don't think it's just at all. Yeah, so it's not click and I wouldn't... it's like this kind of oppressive, yeah, 'Don't do this' or 'Don't do that.' But I know that my name is to share all language. Did you say don't believe an X? For even that was misheard mostly where it became like that is in that expression. I changed quite a bit from there. Yeah, I think that's where God means it's looking at some of the fast... I'm not aware of where I can start to see it. It's where the seeking is kind of playing out in weird ways like some background because I don't think not thinking, but then there's sensed attention. What is this? And then I could look at it just as attention, but then sometimes I like I can realize some of these kind of strange impressive kind of thoughts. I don't know if this is not the CHS thing because it actually seems to be like quite an open term and so it can mean different things. Agree with let's having seven heads like because you could assess this body, what does it... you wanted to become itself like other thing to do it under a jelly bean, whatever it is. Like these terms, they can actually what do what you want them to, what do you know? So I feel like like Nativity we can be pretty certain about what it is not. The court is not referred to which is that it cannot be the first be identify yourselves and then pick up some identification again. I don't think it and I don't feel like it can be very powerful that's it. I think too, but for me when I hear that it is like a kind of hint of like transcendental. So it's almost like sort of the top team a little bit from experience and just saying like, 'I just live it.' And I'm not saying that's how he intended it, but that's what it feels like when I hear the words. It's just... and like I can relate to that absolutely, you know? The certain times where you might you see like, 'Okay, today they sell putting this up and then this happened and this happened.' But really what happened? Well, I am. But then like so I think what I just saying is he's saying that like it's the nature of... it's like the effortless natural nature of awakened consciousness to support for the tray attention to move towards and explore wherever there's a contraction almost actively. Not actively in the sense that there's somebody doing it, actively in the sense that like there's a kind of curiosity in the same way as that inherent in awareness, in the same way there's an intelligence inherent in every way. And then and so it's like they don't really conflict because you can experience one perhaps like mold or something where it just it's very almost like to be touched and things are just flowing because like a real feeling of just leaving life to be as if it's a let it unfold. And then at the same time or maybe a different time it can almost be like something snacks inside and without picking of like self-judgment or guilt of the seeker saying, 'I don't know,' something just like the consciousness itself is like, 'That's interesting.' Like and so attention and awareness goes to that to see almost like it's it's like cleanse himself of these sort of residues of like the sense of separation which was believed in previously. And I think that's like and quite often those contractions are like very human-like. They're they happen in the human arena, felt perhaps when we have an argument with a family member or when we, you know, lose some money or like something like that tends to bring out like the residue of, you know, separation which we can separate, yes.

Yeah, a stallion Packers and other living of that. Just a couple of points on what I gather. I think first point, you know, first thing that you guys will see it's probably that you know when one talks about an embodiment, I think they're saying it's about being willfully taking all that second thought or so-called personality is to impart that field of knowledge. Maybe that's what. And secondly I gather that they will see, you know, he's gonna make a nice pie dough for that enough somewhat like the Matrix people. I think that's it's it's a little metal space that just the mind playing with various concepts, one explanation online. But I think I'm what you at this points to those beings who speak from the perspective of knowing the true position is a Mooji or you Yogani Ji or Rupert or Jesus or Buddha or Krishna etc. embody the truth as far as it being brought back into the human experience. I think it is irrelevant because as long as the body is there, the human experience is there. So it naturally a part of the human very well. Wow, 7:08. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Mooji Baba Ki Jai. Guru Kripa. So annoying sometimes I extended up to 2011, yes.