Let Go of Maya and Be in God’s Presence - 10th June 2024

Why do you think I'm confused? Because I know Shiva's Ishta is Ram and Ram's Ishta is Shiva.

Yes. So do the Shiva prayer with Ram mantra at the end.

So Father, until I came into Satsang, all my friends were worldly friends. You know, either college friends or business friends or other professional associations that we form and spend a lot of time together and develop friendships. And you know, now I've been very fortunate to have a whole new group of friends. And I've kind of kept this philosophy that being in Satsang, I should neither have desire nor aversion. In other words, don't judge other people or other situations. Be authentic to yourself, but don't recluse yourself—meaning don't shy away. Let's say if you're asked to talk about yourself, talk about yourself authentically, but don't sort of decline all that because again, you never know. If everything is Maya, then even the one declining it is another judgment based on that, and again you're believing the movie that's playing out.

At the same time, this whole thing does lead to situations where you're kind of the outlier in the group. Especially most of the world is experience-chasing, right? And then they want to drag you also into it. And then I'm sort of faced with certain uncomfortable things that I wouldn't want to do on my own, but then now it's like everybody wants to do it. So then you feel like you're spoiling the mood of others, but at the same time, it's not resonating with what you would do on your own. So I didn't want to give up stuff, just let it play out and witness it, but it's causing dissonance. Because you are in these situations, and so I don't know if there's any prescription on good company, bad company, or all company is beautiful as long as you detach yourself. I don't know if there's any prescription on how to go about life and relationships, in particular friendships and these sorts of things.

Yes, thank you for that question. You've been speaking a little bit about this: what is Satsang versus what is Kusang, or Susang versus Kusang. So Satsang is when you are keeping the company of God. It doesn't matter what's happening on the outside. But many times you notice that it is easier to say it doesn't matter what is happening on the outside, but that which is happening on the outside does seem to make an impact on whether you're sitting in your heart or whether you're getting involved in Maya or not.

So to be in Maya is to be in the bad company; to be with God's presence is to be in the good company. Now you have to determine for yourself based on experience, saying, 'Can I go into this worldly company and still remain in God's presence? Or does it happen that every time I go into that other company, I get pulled out and that takes precedence over God?' What you would also do is say, 'Okay, this time I will not leave my heart temple and I will allow this to unfold.' And that will give me some experience to be able to check: can I remain with Him independent of what's happening on the outside? And as you go along, then it'll become easier and easier. You could be wherever, but you will remain deeply in your heart. You will remain deeply with your inquiry and with your prayer. So what to do in a particular instance, that you have to allow yourself to be guided from the heart, to be checked from the heart.

So just the part that I can share with everyone is that this Maya is the great con artist. It will hide everywhere. That's why Kabir Ji said that even in the devotion of the devotee, it can hide, you see? So the avoidance of God can be even done by spiritual things, you see? That's why anything that takes us away from God, even if it seems like spiritual to us or to the world, is actually non-spiritual. And it could be very primal things that when we reach very subtle levels, then our Sadhana is to deepen so much in our heart that we become unconcerned with the most primal-seeming experiences. So let them happen if you can stay with God. And you know what 'you can stay with God' means? So if you are with God, then like you were saying, even if you're surrounded by bad company, you will not be touched. But if you're not with God, then even the most sublime, most beautiful experiences can be actually distraction.

So that's what—this was the context, but we'll keep watching it. What cannot come as a distraction to God? Everything phenomenal. That is what Kabir Ji is saying. He is saying that even the Bhakti of the Bhakta can be a distraction. What is more pristine than Bhakti? But the idea of Bhakti can become a distraction, see? So we have to be completely empty, fully naked, fully innocent, and just for God. When we are just for God, then we can be just with God. When we are just for the world and God, then it is very difficult. Or when we are just with ourself or our experience and God, then it can be very difficult.

In my instance, I feel that when I'm totally open and empty, then the natural inclination is to withdraw and become silent. So just imagine you're in a party and there's all kinds of cocktail chatter going on about something or the other. And frankly, from a position of withdrawal, it just doesn't—none of it seems meaningful, right? Somebody's talking about what beautiful vacation they went on, a great hotel, or making fun of somebody else or whatever. None of that stuff really resonates, right? It doesn't stick. So your natural inclination is to then withdraw and become silent. So you're just listening. But I'm just saying if you're in company and you're the silent person—for a few minutes is okay, but let's say it's for days, right? This is where I'm getting dissonance in terms of lifestyle. I'm just very innocently asking because I'm not really sure anymore how to conduct myself.

Yeah, I get the question. I get the question firsthand, you see? I get the question firsthand because here also a call was made that nothing will get in the way of God, and if something seemingly needs to be sacrificed, then it will be sacrificed. Now that is why I keep reminding everyone that it's all right to say Maya, it's all right to say all this is unreal, you see? But if you still take it to be real in some aspects of it, then that will still cause some suffering, cause some trouble to us. So use the dissonance, use the distraction to dive more deeply within.

I don't know why I just thought of a story. I don't know whether it's connected, but it's just come to me about this. This dissonance came to me and I don't know if it's connected to our discussion, but it's just very strongly come. There was this lady who went to a sage, and she said that, 'Please help me because I'm really suffering. I want to be free, but I'm in chains.' She didn't say she's in chains; she said, 'But I'm unable to be free and I need your help.' So he said—she was in a sari and she was wearing a lot of jewelry—and so this sage said to her that, 'You can be free just if you decide to take off all your jewelry, you are free.'

I don't know, this is a very powerful story because I've seen like, you know, sometimes when I had in my journey a feeling that I have to sacrifice something in order to be free. And just today I was thinking that actually now I have become very—like when that feeling comes to me that I must sacrifice my work or sacrifice my relationship in order to be free, I stop myself because I think that that is also not something for me to do. In a way, that is also something that just happens when there is such thirst.

That's true, that's true. It happens, it happens. But also it is important to recognize, like we were talking about it last time, that when we say offer it to God or sacrifice it to God or surrender it to God, you see what is actually happening? What is actually happening is that we are cleaning up a lie. We are cleaning up a misunderstanding, you see, that anything belongs to us in the first place. In what way does anything belong? In what way does anything belong, including this body? We can actually lay no claim over it. The one that we take ourselves to be, who can be the claimant, cannot sustain any claim to anything at all. So when we are saying, 'I offer it all to you, I give my life to you,' you see, it is our recognition of something which has already been a fact. So to remember the truth of the matter and cleaning up the misconception is at the heart of what seemed like a sacrifice. It only seems. Ownership is—how is it to be determined? How can we determine the ownership of anything at all? It belongs to some name. Whose name is that? So we have to stay or become true to our insight where we see that everything belongs to the light of this universe, which is God, which is Consciousness itself. So our offering...

It has already been a fact, yes. So, to remember the truth of the matter and cleaning up the misconception is at the heart of what seems like a sacrifice. Yeah, it only seems so. Ownership is—how is it to be determined? How can we determine the ownership of anything at all? It belongs to some name. Whose name is that? So we have to stay or become true to our insight where we see that everything belongs to the light of this universe, which is God, which is consciousness itself. So our offering, our sacrifice, our surrender is a mere statement of that which has always been so. A mere recognition for ourselves, a clean-up of the false identity of which ownership is an important leg for this identity. Just like doership, same way ownership: what belongs to us? So that very popular part of the Aarti, 'Tera tujhko arpan,' what is that pointing to? That what actually belongs to us? And what is that sacrifice? Nothing, actually nothing, because it has already belonged to Him. So it's already Yours. I'm playing this game of offering it to You. Please accept my innocence and my foolishness to make such offering, but please accept that my life is Yours now. And if my life is Yours now, then my things don't have any meaning. That what's Yours is being offered to You. What is mine anyway? These things have to become literal in our life. It should become like the usual.

So everybody will sing Om Jai Jagdish Hare, even on the lips they will sing it, and that also we may. And then we pray to Lakshmi Mata to give us much more than we have. So that's why we move away from a lip-service spirituality to a true, true surrender, to a true sacrifice. On the outside is this world; on the inside is what? And literally I'm asking, on the inside is it flesh and blood? What is inside even that? Who is inside? Whose presence is in your heart? Doesn't everything already belong to Him?

Then actually, sorry, but then Father, actually there is no—in truth there is no sacrifice or surrender. There is only realizing.

Exactly. This is a recognition and making a claim on the side of the truth. This body flaps around in front of us. The body flaps around in front of us. We claim to be able to move it, we claim to be able to own it, feed it, you see, bathe it. We claim so much about it, but we don't know how to do any of that. How do we provide life energy to it? What animates its every cell? What is this Prana Shakti? Who is the source of it? So these are the building blocks of Maya, these constructs which build onto the notion of 'me.' And when 'me' comes, then that is Maya. M-A-Y-A. And what is Maya? A simple way to look at it is it's the way to suffer. It promises happiness but gives you suffering. So when we get involved with the 'me,' when we identify with the 'me,' it looks like it gives us benefits but actually makes us unhappy and makes us suffering. And when we let go of it, then we come to God's light, we come to His presence, and we are naturally at home. We are naturally happy without needing anything at all in the world.

When you grasp, grasp, grasp, you will not finish grasping in this world. We will die grasping, but our stomach will not be full. When we let go, everything that we wanted is already here. What we wanted is an outcome of the grasping, because nobody wants things for the sake of the thing. We want things, we want to own, because of how that will make us feel. Even if you say it is to look good in front of others, even that is because of how it will make us feel. So try letting go and see what happens. There are two types of treasures you can make. You can try and build a worldly treasure, which you can't do anything with because you're going to die; it's going to go. There is some teaching like that where you can give the money to them or give your treasures to them and they have promised to find you in the next life and give that to you. There is no better scam or scheme in the world. But what is the better treasure to build? Build your inner treasure. Build your inner wealth. Let every moment go in building that inner wealth. Even happiness here only comes from that wealth; it doesn't come from the outer wealth.

How to build that inner wealth? Through remembering God. Through remembrance of God or through investigating, inquiring into the nature of your reality. So remember God now, find out who you are. It's the same thing. But don't waste your time on anything else. Don't waste your time on anything else. And it's not difficult because if you're with God, remembering God, being with God, if your intention is to be with God, then whatever needs to happen in the outer will happen without your having to be interested or focused on that. Yes, exactly. Only be with God. All decisions, everything will be taken by Him. That is how you become an Antarmukhi, inward-facing. Doesn't matter what's happening on the outside, you remain facing inward. That can seem tough, especially if you feel like there's nothing inside or you don't experience anything inside. But that means faith. For a while it may seem like you went to your temple, the heart temple, and there was nothing at the altar. Who can keep facing the altar even if they find nothing there? At what point is our level of frustration?

It is said in the Ramacharitmanas that at one point something happened and Shiva decided to just meditate. So He meditated for 72,000 years. So I read that number three times: 72,000 years He meditated. Our point of frustration comes in 72 seconds. 72 seconds or 72 minutes. Because it needs a lot of faith. It feels like a sacrifice. There is so much I could be doing in the outside world, involved with in the outside world, making so much more money, building such amazing relationships—supposedly, never happened, but supposedly. But you—it can seem like you're sacrificing all of that and you're facing inwards, but you're not even finding anything. So how much time is the right amount of time? Can you see as much time as to get a bachelor's degree? Not even a master's degree. Okay, so can we say three years or four years just inward-facing as much as we can? Use our prayer, use our inquiry. But that is the project. We can't expect to learn even worldly skills in three or four years, but we expect to get instant outcomes in that which is the highest.

So do we commit that from this moment on, for the next at least two years, you focus fully on God without complaining, getting frustrated, getting distracted by worldly things? If you come in, then of course we will keep feeling—I also feel every day—but that commitment will give strength to this intention. Otherwise, you keep falling for Maya by trying to juggle the world and God. Yes, come what may, we are not going to leave Him. And I have never known Him to leave me. I've never known Him to leave me, and none of you have. You're getting what I'm saying with that? When you are with Him, never has He left. He has never said, 'I'm busy, I have like a trillion universes to run, I have to go.' He has never said that. He is always with you. You decide to leave. I decide to leave, isn't it? So to remain present with His presence is our job. His presence is there; we have to remain present to it. Even if it feels like at the moment His presence is not seeming tangible, palpable, a disconnection may be felt, but how to recreate the connection is to remain present to Him.

Why you look worried? It seems like too much? Actually, it's very simple. Simple, maybe not easy, but simple. What is required of us is to just be with Him. And I'm here to help you with any confusions about that. If your project is this one, which is my project, then I can try and help and also learn from you in that. But if our projects are different, then it becomes very difficult to help. Because if I am trying to construct a little temple in my heart to God, that is my project. If you are trying to create an idol to the 'me,' then our projects are very different. But if you are also in the heart temple construction business, then we can talk. Every moment of your being with Him, your being present to His presence, is to build, add a brick to that holy temple in your heart. And every moment that you spend in distractions and selfishness and egotism and pride is to kick down one brick from the temple. We don't have to worry. If you really commit to this and you really build a strong foundation to this temple, then it's not that easy to kick down, you see. Because Maya will come and tempt the best of us, you see it. So don't feel that in one moment everything is lost. You can always return. Even our biological parents are so forgiving and merciful usually, so this Heavenly Parent is beyond all of them.

Takes time, yes. Why? Because Maya is compelling. Learning to stay in God's presence takes time, you see. And we spend a lot of time—maybe the first many years will go in just talking or thinking about spirituality rather than actually being spiritual, you see. Initially for everyone, including me, it was about: Do I understand the right things? Am I saying the right things? Because every other project in the world seems to be about that. How do you pick up a skill? By understanding things about it. You should be able to explain things. But spirituality is completely different. The instrument of spirituality is intuitive; it is your heart. So to let go of reliance on the false instrument and to start relying on your spiritual heart itself can take time. All the practice, understand, yeah, then you can write a book about it, but it will not come from firsthand experience. It will take time, actually, of course, in the sense that okay, it's okay, it'll take time.

So does everyone have the tools to stay with God? Okay. And the more innocent you are about them, the more effective they are. The more sophisticated you are in your head, the more ineffective they'll be. You know what I mean by that? I'll give you an example. So on some days if this body is really tired and you know there's nothing—nothing is functioning, there's very low life energy, nothing is moving—so I just imagine that I'm lying down in the temple and just lying down in front of Him at His feet. Now, sophisticated spiritualists will look at this and say, 'What is this? This is just, you know, making up images and all of that.' But that moment, that helps me just be connected with Him. He's lying down. So use the simple, simple things. And that is why to remember that He knows our intention, and that is what counts. And don't worry about the method so much.

So if your mind will like to confuse you about everything, you'll say, 'Oh, but you're doing this and you're doing that, so is it this or is it that?' But God knows. No, it's for Him. We don't have to worry so much about being right about this. And as much as we can, we do it with sanctity, of course, but sanctity is important, innocence is more important. You offer with innocence. That's why even Shabri's berries became nectar. Would you say that is sanctity, to offer half-eaten berries to God? No, it's not sanctity. But is it innocence? It is. That is what is more important. So innocently, whatever comes in your heart, simple thing. Sometimes you want to talk to God, just keep it simple. You don't have to show off your spiritual knowledge with, you know, these absurd things. Sometimes we try to do just simple things. That's why I love the Psalms also so much. Here's a prophet, King David, and King David is the same David as David and Goliath. So God has been helping him since he was a little child, but he just comes in front of God like an innocent baby and just shares what he feels with no pride about being a king or any of that.

But also try to—whatever this will come naturally, but I'm just giving some little clues, little hints—spend at least as much time listening to God as talking to Him. Listening means you have to just keep yourself open. If you don't hear, you don't hear, it's okay. But you're remaining open to hear Him, to be guided by Him. So use your prayer, use your inquiry. All the most beautiful tools are with you. You have all the building blocks for a spiritual life.

Spend at least as much time listening to God as talking to him. Listening means you have to just keep yourself open. If you don't hear, you don't hear; it's okay. But you're remaining open to hear him, to be guided by him. So use your prayer, use your inquiry; all the most beautiful tools are with you. You have all the building blocks for a spiritual life. You have all the building blocks that you need for your spirituality. And it will seem difficult; it will not always seem easy. And if it didn't sometimes seem difficult, then you're probably doing something wrong because your intention is to fully cut off the force field of Maya and live in the force field of God, and Maya doesn't give up that easily. So at those times, don't lose hope.

No, no, not for—it's for everyone else. If I'm not feeling well, so that is also an illusion?

If you're not feeling well, yes, yes, everything phenomenal is in the realm of Maya, you see. Now, to not feel well actually is very good. Sounds strange, but to not feel well is very good because have you seen anyone who's not well and proud? It's very difficult to be not well and proud. If you have a stomach ache, no, all your pride is the first thing to go. Have you seen that? Somebody could be like super proud of something, could be the head of the army or something; they get searing pain in their stomach and they become a baby in two minutes. So they may try to hold it up for a bit, be strong, but when the pain increases, then all the pride goes. So sometimes afflictions like this are very good because they make us so humble and they make us—when we are struggling with something, then we find it easier to turn to God. We move away from our own capability, 'Oh, I can do, I can do.' So although it is, of course, everything phenomenal is Maya, but when our intention becomes to turn towards God, then everything that shows up in Maya then becomes fuel for our sadhana, fuel for us to go deeper within. Is it so? We don't obviously have to agree with that during the time of illness, but it is easy to spot if you look back. You can see that we become so humble. I have seen so many people in the world, in my family also, who otherwise could be very proud, but when they fall sick, then they become humble and innocent like children.

You start noticing these things in yourself and in others around you. Have you seen how someone who's proud feels happy? It is usually at the cost of someone else. And someone who is not proud is humble; the happiness is so heartfelt, it's so natural, like a childlike happiness. So humility is very, very important. And life, sometimes when we are not getting the point, then it's God's grace; he sends us the point: be like this, be humble. And sometimes for sadhakas, when we fall sick, it's quite good, it's quite convenient because the world usually doesn't bother you in that. Everybody gives you a break. You're sick? Okay, you can stay in your room. So many times I remember when I was younger, I used to feel happy. 'Oh, okay, now five days I can just pray. Nobody's going to say, what about this, what about that?' So we can find Grace in most things.

So the project is clear, hopefully the tools are clear, and now you just have to apply moment to moment. Let go of the false. Moment to moment, stay in your heart. Stay—love is a beautiful anchor. Love just makes it so easy, makes it so alive to be with him. Insight can be just like that; you are immersed in insight so deeply, palpably, just like being immersed in love. So even if it feels difficult, then be empty of pride as much as possible, then you'll be free from your anger. You cannot be angry unless you think you're right about something. And to think that you're right about something, it's just pride. And then what happens is that when you think you're right about something, you want to take God's justice in your own hands. You want to make a claim over the righteousness and be the executioner of that righteousness. If you learn to be humble, then we learn to leave justice to God. It's all connected. When you're angry, you're not feeling the audience of one. It is God being aware of your life. So try it out. Just promise yourself you won't get irritated, you won't get angry. A humble mind will scare you, you see, because the world will treat you like a doormat. But the world is not important. Allow yourselves to move in God's light, and that light will move you in love, kindness, and compassion.

And please don't feel, any of you who are focused on the Jnana Marga or the path of inquiry, don't feel like these things don't apply to you. It all applies to everyone. If you're truly inquiring, can you get angry? You would have really looked at that thought and said, 'Who is witnessing this thought?' and that thought would not have power over you. The righteousness would not settle in, because if you are asking 'Who am I?' you will not find anyone to take that stand, to take positions.

I'm constantly trying to understand and I approach everything with my mind. It's very automatic for me. When Mother says anything, it's automatic. My instant thing is to overthink.

What is the main thing you understood from me, Rama? What is the main thing you say? Not putting you on the spot, just—sorry if I come across intimidating sometimes, but I'm just really looking at this construct which is like, 'Okay, now I am in satsang, I'm just trying to understand.' You see, now you've been in satsang how long?

Year and a half.

Year and a half. In that year and a half, what is the main thing, or some of the main things, that you understood?

To have an unceasing connection with God. To pray constantly. To not understand, even though I don't know—okay, good—to not understand, not hold on just conceptually.

Very good, very good. So let's say we look at the application of this. To pray constantly and therefore be unceasingly connected with God—then how are you doing on that front?

How am I doing? Not very well. I keep trying, but I drift away.

Drift away. It's a little—maybe just a little better than before now. But so, what would you say? Very broad strokes, and you're not going to make a spreadsheet which is going to be accurate about you, but would you say that most of the time you're in prayer and sometimes the mind distracts you, or would you say most of the time you're distracted and sometimes in prayer?

Most of the time I'm distracted.

Most of the time distracted. So how are you trying to pray through the day? Tell me how your day starts.

So I wake up, I try to pray as soon as I wake up. A lot of thoughts, so I do pray for some time, and then I don't know when I'm lost and at some point I—

When you pray, do you feel like you come to God's presence?

Sometimes I feel a love for God, yeah, but not always.

So let's start like this. Let's say that if you were to start your day, and you will not start any actual activity or engaging with anyone till you come to that love for God. Could you do that?

I can do that, yeah.

So don't start your day—I mean, the day starts, you wake up, but don't leave your bed. I mean, you can go brush your teeth if you want and do some very basic things, but don't really spread ego in the world. And you only spread ego in the world if you yourself are not in the love for God. We'll talk about love and presence later, but love is good enough. So, are you scared of the risk that might be? Suppose you have to spend the whole day then in bed just praying and waiting for the love to come. Does that sound like a risk?

Yes.

Yes, then you must take that risk because spirituality is spirituality when you can sense the risk in it. A riskless spirituality is when we are not really paying the cost of discipleship. So we are trying to become disciples of the Atma within, and for that we must be willing to risk our life, you see. So in this case, what is the huge risk? What will happen? Some actions of the day, something will not happen, you see. But that tests your faith. So you stay in your prayer till you feel him in your heart, feel his love in your heart. This applies to everyone. This applies to everyone: that don't start your day in earnest without coming to God's light. Then what will happen is that once this starts becoming natural, then you may go do some work or some other activity, and then you will say that, 'Okay, now during that time I forget.' So then you must use your prayer or use your inquiry to remain. No matter what is happening on the outside, you stay in the heart temple. Let the world move around, you see. So make the heart temple the center of your life. Let everything revolve around that, but your job is to remain in that. Then you will transform your life to a spiritual life.

So if it seems difficult, then every few minutes say your japa, say your prayer. You are using the prayer?

Yes.

So just remind yourself every few minutes, because things will be compelling, something will be happening, and we'll forget. Initially it will seem like a tug of war; it'll become more and more natural. Then that—okay, we won't jump the gun. Next time when you come, then you report on this and then we see. This applies for everyone. So then our spirituality, the rubber really starts to hit the road. Otherwise, what happens for most is that we are in the world, we are in the world, we are in the world, and then when we need some respite, then we come to satsang to get some peace. We come to satsang, get some peace, hopefully get some peace, and then return back, and then we are in the world, in the world. Satsang must become constant. So this unceasing prayer, unceasing connection with God will come like this. Initially it has to feel a bit like you're just finding it too tough initially, but you have to put yourself in that situation and then we learn how to pray deeply and say, 'This is too tough for me, God, please help me.' And these helpless cries start to come; then the rubber is hitting the road, you see. And at that point, remember that he will not leave you. It's we that decide to leave him. So our job is to just be present to his presence.

And I'm again repeating for those who are confused about this, like 'present to presence,' are there two presences? What's going on? This kind of question can come. So you notice in yourself the ability to be present to his presence, you see. Like Bhagavan said, 'Abide in the truth.' Abide in the truth of yourself as awareness. So awareness is aware; who is going to abide? Papaji said, 'Be quiet.' Maharaj said, 'Remain with the sense I Am.' So then if 'I Am' is already remaining, who is there to remain in the sense 'I Am'? You see? So it is the same as saying be present to the presence. Be present to his presence. Why I'm saying like that is because I want to make it really simple. I want to offer it in a simple way, which means that if you were with your best friend and you were just on your phone and your best friend were just sitting there and getting bored and irritated, you see, then they would be angry with you and say, 'But I'm with you, why are you not with me?' You see? So our job is to be with God in that way. He's with you in your heart; why are you not with him? So be with him and then what happens is that it is self-reflecting because actually the presence is the same. So the outward-facing one starts to become more inward-facing, so it becomes anukhi. It's like the folded mirror facing each other, and then that becomes such a beautiful deepening. It's like a huge, beautiful merging that happens in your heart. Just stay with God. I also said it's like—I need to find better metaphors for this—but it's like the snake eating its own tail. So you just stay, and it's a deepening over deepening process, and then so much beauty will come from this because you notice that like this, you're being guided by a Satguru.

It becomes more inward-facing, so it becomes anuki. It's like the folded mirror facing each other, and then that becomes such a beautiful deepening. It's like a huge, beautiful merging that happens in your heart. Just stay with God. I also said, I need to find better metaphors for this, but it's like the snake eating its own tail. You just stay, and it's a deepening over deepening process. Then so much beauty will flow from this because you notice that you're being guided by a supernatural force which is not of this world. You're receiving guidance from your heart. Things are changing in your life in very strange ways sometimes, but this guide is out of this world because it is the Satguru presence, the Atma within, God's presence within. These are really true things. I'm not making a spiritual speech or something; these are literal, true things. So you must take them very literally.

The job of us outer teachers is to bring you to that discipleship of the Atma inside. But you don't rest till you come to that. You have to strive for it with full intention. Then Maya will lose its power. Otherwise, what will happen? You leave satsang, and in five minutes some phone call will come, something will happen, and then it'll seem like that is important, and you have left God in that. So then you don't do that. You stay with God. Then your understanding will just be helpful to you by giving you more tips as to how to remain in God's temple. Otherwise, what happens is that you are creating a spiritual encyclopedia for yourself, but it has nothing to do with really being with God.

See then how it will change is that when you start to notice the problems that you have—oh, I'm not able to stay because when it is about food, for example, then I get distracted, you see? Then I forget about God and start thinking about, 'Okay, now what am I going to eat?' you know, this kind of thing. For example, you see, then when you hear something from your teacher, it is then you go, 'Ah, now when the gulab jamun is seeming very attractive, if I follow what he's telling me, then I can just stay with God,' you see? So then it becomes a living understanding, a living insight. Otherwise, we only pick up the ability to share big, big things and write big, big things, but it doesn't apply to our life.

When we become actual spiritual practitioners, then you see, 'Okay, this is what I struggle with.' Then your questions also become very focused on that. When I try to stay with Him, what happens is that my mind offers me some resentment about this old friend that I had or this person that I knew. So how can I deal with that? Then it becomes very pointed to how do we pluck out all the thorns from a sadhana.

When the presence is apparent and it's, as you said, the greatest teacher, to immediately jump into my previous knowledge about how to stay with Him, it feels somewhat like... you also know to rely on Him once you are with Him, huh?

Then what do you go to knowledge for? Stay with Him. It's not good to do that; that just takes you out of it. Yeah, in the sense that you're with Him now, it's His business how to guide you. All the knowledge, all what you learn in satsang, is to get you to Him. After that, you do rely on Him only. Yes, that's how our spirituality is constantly alive and growing and evolving. See, otherwise, if you just go to Him and you say, 'Oh, but I know this and I know that,' you see, then it's become still. Then God's presence is saying, 'Okay, you know.' So in a way, it is a continuation of that previous question. Use the tools which you got in satsang to come to God, and then you just stay with God. And if you find yourself wandering out, you see, then use the tool again.

And sometimes, sometimes you don't know what will work also. It depends on so many things, I guess. But like, I've never been one for too much music and bhajans and stuff, and this morning I was in a... I noticed I'm going on that spiral mind one, and so I put on this music and then I said, 'Oh, this has worked.' So this is a tool, you know? So it's gone into my box. I have some lifeline. I haven't forgotten you have a question, but I have a playlist now of various things.

You turn it on, yeah. Strong bhajans, just prayers, Christian prayers. Now some of these children... a Sufi playlist is being formed, very beautiful. So there are so many tools in this way, supports, and we must not shy away from them because Maya has a lot of tools. Maya has so many tools. So then in our spiritual arsenal also, we can have some tools that help to keep us in our presence. It would just be pride to feel like, 'No, no, I never need to listen to devotional music,' or 'I never need to listen, I never need to pray, or I don't never have to ask.' We must not get caught up in spiritual pride. We don't know anything. We're just starting. We're just starting to learn how to love God.

When I'm in the shower also and I feel I need some support, I just put one of those things. I can't hear them, but just knowing that, you know, satsang is on helps just remain open, you know? So, and the mind can trick like this: 'You are all day just needing support.' No, no.

Yeah, yeah, we do need. We do need because the force field of Maya is so strong. At least I can see for my case that I'm not one who can say that, oh, without any prayer, without any inquiry, without any bhajan, without any of this, that I would just be with God all the time.

I don't feel like that, exactly. And that, that is pride.

Exactly. Now suppose that even if you could, suppose that you were in a cave or you were, you know, just parachuted from some plane and landed on an isolated desert where there's nothing. So suppose that you could... no, I'm just saying that then in that situation we would have to. But in the world, in this, by God's grace we've been provided so much help, so why not take it? Only pride will get in the way. So take God as literally as you can. And God is. Don't take it conceptually. Don't take Him to be notional. He is, and He's right here, much more than our power of attention.

You see, you may feel like our attention is very strong, so we know most about what's happening with us. How do we know? Because we can pay attention. We can pay attention to our thoughts, we can pay attention to our actions, we can pay attention to our breath, we can pay attention to so many things. But if you actually look at it, attention is very limited. We know very little about even the functioning of this body-mind. But it is His light which keeps it going, and He is aware much more than we are about ourselves. So He's the best one to rely on. We are very topsy-turvy. One moment we are full of happiness saying, 'Oh, I'm so happy God is here, I'm celebrating, this can never go, this is it,' and five minutes later we're just like, 'Oh no, I'm just the worst, nothing is happening, just wasting this life.' We can go from celebration to despair in five minutes. So we actually don't know as much as we think we do, but He does. And He is here, and His presence, His Atma, is within ourself.

No gift in the world can come to one-millionth of this gift that we have. But most of us, most of our brothers and sisters, treat it to be just notional, treat it to be conceptual. We're not trying to come to God to be in His presence, to live in His light. We're just looking for some apex, some pain relief from time to time. But that's not enough. And of course, those who need that relief from pain, may they have it, but may that lead them further into His light, His presence. Yeah.

So one question was coming to ask everyone, which is to say: Who are we living this life for? Don't have to say it out loud, just for yourself. Who are you living this life for? Until that answer doesn't change to God or truth, which is the same—Satnam, Shri Waheguru is the same—if that answer is not God or truth, then you are yet to start your spiritual journey. Then you can at least say to yourself that, 'My life is truly for God.' Then we start in our spirituality. Will it always be that way? No, we will fail. We will call for my araks, but at least we are letting go of that what we take to be ours, which actually isn't. We're letting go of that and surrendering that to God. Good. With God. God's presence. God's presence. Okay, now turn this.

It's not really a question, Father, it's more like an admission. I'm really sorry, I still get pulled out into, 'Oh my God, should I pray for the war in Ukraine? Should I pray for the Hamas and the Israel conflict?' It pulls me out, and I just want to ask you, should I just tell it to buzz off? What should I do?

It seems... you tell me what to do. I find actually these to be great opportunities because I'll open my messages, I may be caught up in some work, something like that, I have forgotten about God, suppose, and someone says, 'Father, please pray for this one,' you see? So when I pray for that one, it connects me to God. So they've given me a gift, actually. I'm not doing them any favor. I feel like, 'Oh, thank you,' because I was lost doing God knows what, but in your message, I got reminded to pray. And I pray for this one or that one or you or the world or myself. Most important is the connection. So I use these opportunities to reconnect. Does that answer?

Yes, it does, very much. And it's the follow-up question of when they say you should serve, serve humanity, serve other than yourself, then do I wait for a nudge from the Lord God Guru, or if I feel or see something that needs to be done, should I just do it?

Atma will tell you. As a disciple, your first job is to come to the discipleship of the Atma. Once you come to that, then your life will be truly in service to both God and to your brothers and sisters. So right now, your project is just to build that temple, to build a strong temple in your heart which can keep your life focused. So to be in prayer, it could be towards or for something or somebody or a situation, but to be in prayer, to stay within His love. Yeah, to find the depth of love also, because it is just too much in there, just too much. This is the love... to compare it to a volcano would be an understatement. That is why you have to give credit to Maya sometimes. So much inside of us, His love is just oozing out, and yet this drama, this play in front of us, can seem to make it all seem non-existent and just fairy tales and seems so, so, so. We can never come to the depth of His love, but we can keep diving deeper and deeper in because we want to catch it in the reflection. Maya's job is to give us a pretend reflection. You want to catch it in a love in relationship, you want to catch it in some other worldly pleasure. Just like you can't catch yourself in a reflection in the mirror, you can't really meet it like that. It has to come from within.

Is the easiest way, Father, if I keep writing on my diary, is that a discipline I can do?

Just... do you feel like it's a heart process or a head process with my diary?

It's a heart process. And everything that's a heart process is... today I was doing the beads and I was doing the beads and sometimes I think about one of my kids who doesn't believe in God and I feel pain, you know? And so I... it felt to pray for him, yeah. So I just, I turned the beads to him and I noticed that when I'm praying for him, it feels more real than when I'm praying for myself. Like as though I'm actually praying for him, you know? But when I'm praying for myself, it doesn't have that... sometimes it's lip service. It's like sometimes I actually am, when I'm really feeling helpless, I'm actually praying, but it doesn't feel so alive as I was feeling. Maybe I'm not sure if I... when I pray, I have not noticed, but for him it was like, 'Please bless him.' So why is it like this, Father?

It can be like that. It can be like that, that many times it seems much more mechanical if it's just for us. Yeah. But that's why suffering or helplessness is very helpful, because when you're going through that, then you can really put some fire in it. But it comes because what may happen more and more is that as you come to Him more and more, you will see what is still your blocks and what is still your conditioning.

I have not noticed, but for him, it was like, 'Please bless him.' So why is it like this, Father? Like, it can be like that?

It can be like that. Many times it seems much more mechanical if it's just for us, yeah. But that's why suffering orness is very helpful, because when you're going through that, then you can really put some fire in it. But it comes because what may happen more and more is that as you come to Him more and more, you will see what is still your blocks and what is still your conditions. And I'm saying for myself, you see your lack of love, you can still see your pretense, you can see all of that for yourself. And these things will seem like a lot that didn't seem like it was too much earlier. You see, as we are diving more and more into Him, these smallest aberrations—actually not small, you see—but those which we were blinded to see earlier, then they... like, I come to every Satsang and I see my own pretense. I just... that adds so much fuel to my prayer. It's just like, 'Yeah, tear this mask down.' That mask keeps coming back. It's like the movie just keeps coming back. It's in all relationships, this sort of 'I can't be fully naked and innocent.' So I'm noticing that more and more, and that becomes fuel for our prayer, just like, 'Have mercy on me, yeah, because I can't do this by myself. This will only happen by Your mercy.' So we start to spot so many things, and those provide fuel to our prayer, yeah.

Like, I feel like when I'm praying for him, God was more real than when I'm doing the prayer for myself. Like, that is the strangest feeling I noticed. Maybe we are used to that, like when we pray... I don't know, I don't know.

It's okay. One child says, 'Father, found it a bit funny when I do Ardas for one another, especially for the ones I feel anger with them. I enjoy saying the sinner part a lot; it releases my anger.' It changes. It is so important to forgive people. And we did a session and they were like, 'But you know, if we see a sinner, we'll feel good about it.' Yeah, for them. Yeah, he is a sinner. Yesterday, that's a good insight.