Are We Living as if God Is Real? - 29th September 2023

So how do we find that which is beyond the realm of perception? I'll start with the simplest way, then we will make it more complicated because the more complicated will seem simpler to the mind, isn't it? So right now, just remain in pure perception. Don't label anything at all. Don't interpret. Don't make sense of anything at all. Let all your thoughts come and go. Now, are the only perceptions that you are aware of? Do you also exist? It means you're saying that beyond what you are perceiving, there is an 'I' which is aware of perception, that is witnessing these perceptions. Is this true? If I said to you, 'No, no, there's no such I, you're just making it up,' what can you do with it?

You can see it.

Yeah, okay. So the 'I' which is aware of perceptions, what is its color?

It has no color.

What is the Guna? What is the quality?

Ah, so you're talking about the I-am-ness itself, the I-existence itself, you see.

So we'll come to that in this one moment, which is the primordial vibration or the subtlest on the cusp between the unmanifest and manifest. There is this sense of being, the I-am-ness. But we'll come to that in just a moment. But that which is aware of sight, which is aware of touch, smell—that is here or no? Is that? And how can you tell it is there?

It's all over stuff now.

How do you know that it is? In what way? Like if I was a tomato, I would know I'm a tomato. Yeah, but this is that which is aware. Yeah, so how is that known? Everything knows itself. Yeah, no, I mean like, you know, so this one knows itself.

Yes, but how do you know? How does it know itself?

You don't need another. You don't need a... I don't need my senses. So to see the body sitting in front, you need sight. To hear the voice, you need hearing. So what she's saying is that you don't need any of this mechanism to know yourself. Because if I was to tell you that you are not aware of your sight right now, you're not aware of your hearing right now—let's say I'm going to stop after searching because if I force you to buy into that, because it is apparent to you, is it not? Who's not with us? Everyone is together in this? On Zoom, everyone's frozen anyways. We're together. The 'I' which is aware of what? Perception. Aware of all that which comes and goes.

Um, yes. So this hand you can perceive. Okay, the 'I', you, which can perceive this hand, what is its color?

Yeah, the skin color. And then where does this information go? To whom?

To the mind.

Okay, suppose it went to the mind, and then how does it come to you? I'm having... how do I perceive it?

Yes, yes. And rely on direct experience, like we started. Now you have to rely on direct experience rather than anything that we've learned. So we learned about the brain, we learned about neurons, we learned about all of those things. Just keep them aside. Just directly right now, you are perceiving the image of this hand, yeah? Isn't it? That you tell me one thing about it. Is that one... is that is already known? I mean, it already knows that I am perceiving or I am seeing.

Yes, and yes. What does it look like?

What it looks like? Yes, yes. I cannot say it has any attributes, any... whether it has a particular form or...

Yes. How are you aware of it?

How am I aware of it? Because it doesn't have any form. But what about you, Father? Can you please repeat?

So we confirmed that there is an awareness which is aware of all perception, and we are unable to find any shape, color, size, form—any of these attributes. Now, seeing it doesn't have any of this, I am asking: How are you aware of it?

I am simply aware of it as something which is separate from it.

What is the distance between it and you?

That is all me. Are you inferring this, or is this learned knowledge, or direct experience? It feels like it is all me. I'm not able to distinguish that the one who is aware of it... yes, and who is also aware of this entire, entire thing happening.

Yes. That which is aware of all of this perception, you are saying that it has no quality, no shape, nothing. Now, this 'you' which is reporting about that, is it distinct from that?

Right. I still can't confirm. I see this one, this 'I' which can't confirm, is which one?

It seems like the mind. Okay. And what is witnessing that mind?

Yes. So this 'I' which is witnessing the mind, tell me something about it.

So, you can't describe it. Like, I'm getting all sorts of sentences in my mind saying it is like this, like that. But if I don't... if I'm not listening, if I see, I just can't. It's, it's, it's palpable. I can, I can sense it, and yet I'm not able to describe it.

How do you sense it? In what way?

Like, I feel a lot of vibration here and...

Okay, so is that vibration also not perceived? And the one that is aware of this perception, is that vibrating?

Yeah, that is also perceived. Who is aware of this perception?

Not that I am. I'm aware of this.

Yes. And this 'I', tell me something about it itself.

Oops. It sees everything. It, it knows everything.

What can we know about it? Sorry, what can we know about it? Okay, how can I know about it? It knows everything. Yeah, what can we know about it? Can we? That's the question, huh? What do you know about it?

I mean, it... I'm it. It's always there. It's, it's constantly there.

Uh, where? Where is it?

I know the answer in my mind. What is the answer in the mind? It has no location, but it's there. Yeah, yeah, it's there.

Good way. That which has no location, we could not say it's there or here. It's indeterminable in the sense that the mind cannot fathom. Now, you that is making this or recognizing this, you that is recognizing this is which one? Okay, shall we make it simple? If you are aware of the perception of this hand, yes, it's you, no? Yes, sure. I mean, the one who is perceiving, yeah, aware of the perception, yes, it's you, yes. How do you know it's you?

I know it. You know, yeah, you just know. Yes. It's not that as if you can see that 'I'. Yeah, you can't see it. No, no.

Are you just thinking it is you, making it up?

No, no. It's clear it is you, yes.

Okay, so if this is you, is there another you? Are there two of you?

No. It, you know, this is the only you, yeah. Sorry, I'm taking time.

Take as much time. You can spend 10 seconds on this and the rest of you follow along, not just wait for that. No, there is no two. There is no other you, yes. Now this 'you' that is aware of the perception of the hand, what does it want?

It wants nothing or nothing.

How old is it?

Can't determine. Can't see, yes.

What can cause it to suffer in any way? Sorry, what can make it suffer in any way? What can trouble it?

I always felt that if I believe a thought, then I'm suffering. But even upon believing a thought, does it suffer?

No, because it has no quality. It has no shape, so it cannot suffer. Amazing. Now, you've gone back to referring to it as 'it', but is it you?

Yes, yes.

Now, without letting your mind intervene, just naturally tell me something about this 'you', this Self. Don't fear any judgment or anything at all, please.

What is the question you're answering? Yeah, to, to tell something about this one. Yes, about your true Self.

Yes, Father. When I, when I am able to see this one, it feels, it feels complete.

Uh, in what way are you seeing it? Like right now, experiencing it. This, what is its color? Is it black?

The first thing which came was like it's void space, but I kind of... you have to ask what is aware even of that, isn't it? So that which is aware even of like an abyss or a void, is that, is that you?

Yes.

So what can hurt you? What can harm you?

Nothing. It's untouchable. I feel untouchable.

Yeah, you are what? It is untouchable. I am also that. Also, I'm just hammering these because, yeah, the mind will quickly come and make a distinction. And for years people have told me that, 'Yes, yes, nothing is happening to it, but can we come to me?' Now, it is you, is it?

Yeah, as if I'm going towards it, but I am it.

But why does it feel difficult to describe it? Right when you're asking, I feel so, like, blank about to describe it. Yes, because we are used to describing things which have qualities, that they have color, shape, size. It's easy to describe. But because you are beyond these attributes, the mind is not designed to describe that which is attributeless. That's why you'll find it easier to say, 'Not this, not this, not this.' It doesn't have shape, it doesn't have color, it doesn't change, it doesn't age. So the...

I am it, but why does it feel difficult to describe it? Right when you're asking, I feel so, uh, like blank about to describe it.

Yes, because we are used to describing things which have qualities—that they have color, shapes, size. It's easy to describe. But because you are beyond these attributes, the mind is not designed to describe that which is attributeless. That's why you'll find it easier to say: not this, not this, not this. It doesn't have shape, it doesn't have color, it doesn't change, it doesn't age. So the negations are easier. And these words are coming now. Is there any effort required for you to be this right now? Now, what is the disclaimer for right now?

Sometimes when I start believing my thoughts, I feel I have to take some efforts to drop it and to simply stay empty.

So now, now we can come to that question. If this remains untouched whatever may happen, then why do the Masters keep emphasizing not to get involved with the mind? "You don't have a thought," "don't identify"—all these pointers. Let me open an empty... "don't believe your next thought." All these pointers. So what happens? Can you give us a live commentary when you believe a thought right now? What are you right now?

I'm this awareness.

Very good. Now, now keep reading, keep waiting for a thought to come. And if you believe it, you tell us what happened.

No thought is coming.

Okay, to welcome the mind, it doesn't come. But it'll come back.

So a thought came saying again that you have to take efforts to, you know, drop it, drop it.

Once you believed it, what changed?

You felt, um, it's like, uh, I feel desperate. Like, no, I want to be back with the presence of, you know, be empty.

So even for us, you took yourself to be a limited entity again. Is that it?

Yeah.

Now let's try one thing. Believe a thought, but don't take yourself to be limited. Don't take yourself to be limited. Stay as awareness itself. Be as you are. How is that possible? Are you checking or are you inferring?

Inferring.

Don't infer.

I'm trying to believe a thought, but it's not happening once you welcome it. Then it seems so difficult to get into delusion. Once you fight them and say, "No, no, I should not," then it seems easier. Okay, I'm interesting that I don't want to go back to my past and what the mind is saying.

Yeah, who does it apply to? It applies to the non-existent one. So how much should we bother with it? Or you could have used that in your experiment to believe it and still remain as awareness. Yeah, so we're not to bother with it because he's talking about a non-existent one, isn't it? Do you have to force yourself to stay right now?

Yeah, looking at you now. Looking at me, difficult. But actually, in reality, it is our original, most effortless place to be. But because we've got the habit now of picking up the mental baggage for so long, it can seem like sometimes that it is effort to drop it.

Um, anything missing?

No. Let this feel that I have to stay empty. And you have a fear that you have to stay empty, huh? It is not letting you be empty.

Yes, and that's why it feels like a heavy take. Really, when you see, was it heavy for... huh? To the false one, it was just a thought, isn't it? Yes, the conclusions about the false one are just thoughts. They never are inside; they never are intuitive seeing, isn't it? Now, if a fear comes, on a scale of one to ten, how much would you rate this fear?

Five, six.

Five, six. Okay. So now imagine that that fear is five thousand—a thousand times this—and tell me how it hurts the reality of you. That which is aware of it, what happens to it?

Nothing happens to it.

Now, is there another you which it can bother?

No.

How much space do you have inside you to have even ten times this five thousand amount of fear? When do you run out of space for fear? Any emotion, can you say, "No, no, this is too much"? Like when you say it's too much, something... at what point does it become too much? Then it takes up all your space, all your being. So what can make up all your being? Not believe, just the feeling itself. Is this awareness running scared of what feelings are coming? And can they be so strong a feeling that awareness itself gets hurt or dented or scratched in any way?

Yeah, anything can happen in that space. I mean, it... the witnessing remains untouched.

There is no levels for awareness. Because of the infinite one, it doesn't matter if something is like this or like that or like that to infinity. Everything is nothing. Hmm. Now, where are you?

Um, yeah, you see the thoughts and coming and going, but even the fear is coming up again and again.

But so the fear is coming, and yet you remain untouched. You remain untouched. Yeah, I guess if I don't serve tea, then simply quiet. How can you move out of this?

The moment I believe some, any, even a single thought.

Yeah, it seems as if, isn't it? It's only a seeming as if you became solidified or became something, but in actuality nothing happened, is it? So it's just a seeming. Maya is just seeming. So when we bind to identity that "I am somebody," you don't actually become a somebody and no somebody is actually born. It is just the power that you have to take yourselves to be somebody, you see. So you can take yourself to be like, if you close your eyes and take yourself to be a frog living in a pond or something like that, it's not impossible to you. In the same way, you take yourself to be a set of perceptions, a set of sensations, okay? And you feel like because there is a narrator, which is the mind, which is describing the seeming events of this one's life, it can seem like you're really that, is it? But in actuality, you still remain the witnessing. So nothing in actuality changes, but in the seeming it changes. But in that seeming we are suffering, you see. In that seeming we are suffering, and satsang is an antidote for that seeming. It is not an antidote for anything real. It is time for that seeming. It seems as if we have lost ourselves, but we come back to self-recognition, self-knowledge in this way.

Yeah, seeming always felt real.

Yes, seeming... it really seems real. Yeah, so anything that seems real, you can discard. The mind will tempt you. It'll say, "It feels so real, it seems so real." Maya means that which feels real and seems real, you see. God is a great designer. God has only designed Maya, so it is designed to feel real. Just like a realistic 3D movie is designed to feel real and seem real. So whatever is...

I always keep having this question that whatever is happening around, like even we sitting here...

Where are you sitting here? Where are you watching this play from? Are you sitting here? The body is sitting here apparently. Now, are you inside the body?

No.

Are you outside the body?

No. It's like neither inside nor outside.

Then none of this what's happening around doesn't matter at all.

But then if not thinking that you hurt, you affect you, and what would matter me?

When you say it doesn't matter, it has to touch you in some ways to matter, isn't it? What can touch you? You should try to imagine the worst feelings, the worst events. See what can touch you. Something has to come out of the realm of perception and come and give awareness a slap. Let's see if something can do that. So it doesn't matter in that way, that you remain untouched by it.

Thank you. Okay, I just feel I won't... just let me see. It's a thought that I, I just want to sit with it, with this pointer of not having a location inside, outside. This is... it's too... it's like very direct.

But is it difficult?

No, it's just clear. It's just apparent.

Yes, not in the mind, but intuitively you just know. Where am I? Where am I watching this whole world from? This world appears in front of me, but can I place myself in this world? Because this world is full of objects and I don't have a single quality that this world can hold. Thank you. Thank you so much. With all kinds of nonsense, all kinds of distractions, just remain as this. Let it all come and go and don't make any conclusions. No celebrations, nothing. Just nothing for the moment. Thank you.

Okay, or something... this little sensational oppressive feeling on my chest and my head. Because now I feel like it will become so big, and you said before, five years, it becomes so good that I would die. I mean, like this body would die.

Okay, so but I really assume... I really is... is the awareness that I am. What can hurt it? What does awareness look like? Who is aware of this awareness? You. Is this 'I' which is aware distinct from it? True. Besides believing a thought, anything else you can do to construct yourself? No other methods of avidya. Besides latching onto a thought, make yourself into the imagined one, the non-existent one.

You know, when I checked that, I see that that awareness is not... it's not whether you're seeing awareness from. And you know, when I leave not doing is such something like... is it interchangeable to say I am not?

If you were to say, "I checked and I say I am not doing," yes. Don't say awareness. "I'm not doing." Another, if it is true, yes. "I, awareness, I'm not doing." You don't need anything to do anything. Yes. Can you be anything but that? So when you say, "As awareness I am not," can you be anything but that in reality?

No. Good things, I'm presumed you must ever tell me because I always presume it's a good thing.

That's awesome again, dude. I was saying don't refer to it as awareness if it is you, because once you make it that and it, your mind will come and make a distinction and say, "Oh, nothing is happening to it, but I still have to work on something for myself." But is that your true self? So tell me something about you which is true.

Nothing says that I can never not be. I can never not anywhere.

That's fine. Yeah, no question now. Freshness. Let the world be inarticulate if they have causes inside my heart. Yes, yes, we've come to that part. Okay, okay, so can we go to handle it and then come to America? Wonderful.

It's a fighter. Uh, I, I am able to meet that I am this awareness. I am... you are able to meet that you're this awareness. Yes, thank you. I was able to contact, uh, something out of this room. That mic is only for Zoom. So, uh, thank you. Like when you say don't believe the mind, like I said, that awareness should not believe the mind, or is it that a mind takes over the awareness? Or how does it, like, be missed by all of that? All of that. So today I'm going really slowly. Yeah, so we'll come to the mind and why it's important to not believe a thought.

Let's talk fans and it's even because there's... it's believed in, no? Yeah, you have nothing to do with it. I'm not doing it. But, uh, his questions right now, it felt like it was a contrast and in the awareness it was seen very differently. Earlier it was more like... and the qualityless seemed like two different... not the quality and this... I don't know, this is what happened just now.

Yeah, so what happened? Awareness... the thought... I mean, it was believed in a thought. Oh, believed in a thought and it just the 'I' there was this... was it felt like, um, I'm believing and but that the believing was not suffering because it was seen. Uh, okay, so we'll come to belief and what happens in the moment. So we go really slowly. You can stop me at that point. I'm just coming back so everyone was able to follow along. I know everyone is here, yes, but it's not true anyway. So let's presume everyone was able to follow along. Um, and if it is true, then of course I'm very happy. But, um, so in this qualityless reality of the absolute self, there is no question of shape, size, time, space, life, sound—none of that really applies to your reality. Any object, no matter how hard it may be, is nothing for it because this is beyond time and space. All other things are in time and space. So this is the absolute reality, although to the mind it is nothing because it is not a thing. So this is the magnificence of the no-thing reality that is you. It's astounding and it never gets old. This is a tip for you: if the mind comes and tells you, "No, no, that is clear now, it's, it's done," you see, no, this... the Ananda of meeting your...

Really applies to your reality. Any object, no matter how hard it may be, is nothing for it because this is beyond time and space. All other things are in time and space, so this is the absolute reality. Although to the mind it is nothing because it is not a thing, so this is the magnificence of the no-thing reality that is you. It's astounding and it never gets old. This is a tip for you: if the mind comes and tells you, 'No, no, that is clear now, it's done,' you see, no. The Ananda of meeting yourself is the Ananda of meeting yourself as Nirguna Brahman, and that is called Brahmananda. That is the highest Ananda possible, although to the mind again it is nothing. So this never gets old. It's not an objective Ananda; it's not a taste. It doesn't have to taste like a sweetness or a joy, but it is beyond all these considerations and is your eternal resting place.

So then don't ever let the mind come and convince you that, 'No, no, no, that part is not important.' That is the highest, highest Ananda. Also look at the astounding reality that you yourself are this, beyond all the universes, beyond all time and space. Now within this magnificence of you, within this 'I' which is your reality, there is a birth of being. For some reason which we can never explain, which is known only to God, there's a birth of being. So Saguna takes birth. And in most cultures and traditions, including in India, it is this Consciousness, this being, which we call God. From the God, this Consciousness just emerges from awareness itself; therefore, it is not really distinct from awareness. It is one. It is 'I' which is playing as 'I am.' Okay?

So if the fist goes like this, you see, in the nascent state the fist is now like this. It doesn't mean that there were two fists. The fist is open, that means the qualities are sort of showering out, but the fist remains the same. The qualities were not there, which is like deep sleep state, and then the qualities come. And the quality comes when this plays as this: 'I' plays as 'I am.' 'I am,' you see. Now I'm present, I am being, I am conscious. And with the birth of Consciousness, universes are born. All this play of light and sound. This sounds like a crazy sci-fi fantasy movie, but this is your reality: that within your being is this whole world play being created and witnessed. So this is the birth of Consciousness itself. Within pure awareness there's a being. There was no being; awareness is beyond being and not being. Now it itself is being. It is present. It has taken manifestation. It has manifested itself. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing that this Consciousness takes birth within myself.

And this Consciousness is the source of all things that can be perceived and experienced. Everything that can be perceived, experienced, tasted, takes birth within this Consciousness, within your being. And if this being had left it at that, okay, then it would just enjoy the taste of this appearance. But again, for some unexplainable reason, it wanted to play in this experience with even more juice, like even with more involvement, you see. Because otherwise, in pure perception, this whole world comes into creation, but anywhere that it is perceived within the being, the being cannot be hurt, harmed—nothing can happen to it, no matter what is playing out in front of it, isn't it? So just like awareness, beingness also remains untouched. It is like the space in which the space takes birth. It is the space in which time takes birth. So it remains untouched by whatever else may be appearing within time and space.

And that is why the sages of the past made this whole theory of Leela, which is the play of Consciousness, you see. So it is playing, but the play is no fun, you know, if it is just watching everything. 'Anybody can do anything, it doesn't hurt me, doesn't affect me.' So it's like one of the movies that you can't understand just playing out; it has no meaning for you, but you cannot relate to it. So we can never explain why God did this, but one of the explanations is to make it more relatable, to have more juice in it, to play a game as if you're really involved. Suppose you bought the most expensive computer game in the world and you put it on and you're just not relating with it. You could not get involved with the characters; the mission was meaningless for you. So God also felt like that, and God said, 'We need to juice up this play somehow.' So what if we were to give this being like this centrality of visual perspectives through the lens of the body? Let's give it like a visual centrality as if it is contained in that body. And also let's put a narrator there, you see. What is the narrator called? Something fancy. So let's put a narrator there who explains the story to us.

What is this play about? It is telling us, 'This is happening, this is happening, this is what you want me to do, this is what you must not do, this is what you want, this is what you don't want, this is so right, this is so wrong.' All these things it will tell, and then this play will start to seem more real, you know, juicy. And you want to grasp things here, you want to learn from things here, like that, you see. So God has designed all this to happen because just in pure perception, nothing touches you. Pain doesn't touch you, pleasure doesn't bother you, nothing happens. So then to really play as if it's got some real juice and sting and, you know, it can be exciting, all this narrative and all this goes on. So this is the birth of the mind. The narrator is what? The mind. The one that puts a subtitle on every scene saying, 'This is what's happening, this is what's going on.'

The mind is not usable except through its product. Like when the subtitles come, you don't see the subtitler; you receive the subtitles. So in fact, there's no such actual thing like the mind, but because the subtitles come, we use a word to define it. So we say, 'That is the mind.' So this is the mind does this, the mind does that. It's just the nature of creation itself. And the nature of Maya itself is the nature of the narrative energy in some way. It's not really that, but that's what we call the Maya. Now what happens as this awareness gives birth to Consciousness? I'm talking about you, by the way. You did all this. You gave birth to Consciousness and then now, to make this play exciting for you, you also inserted a mind over there. You said, 'Okay, I will listen to this, so it'll have some music, some drama, some entertainment will be here,' you see.

But you realize that you are so powerful—and again, I'm making stories, okay, well, I know this is real just to give it some sort of metaphorical impact—so you realize that you're so powerful if you create the narrator in this way. If you create a narrator like this, you create this play like this which is endless because your power is endless. It can keep going on and you can keep getting identified in this. You may never leave; you might just take yourself to be body-mind after body-mind after body-mind. So then for yourself, you realize that, 'I have to build an alarm clock for myself so I wake up out of this stuff.' What is the alarm clock usually? The alarm clock is suffering. You build that suffering alarm clock so that it is not always fun and games, and there are moments where you feel like you're really suffering. So you start asking the question, 'What is really going on here? Who am I and what is going on here?' Unless life will slap them around, isn't it? Very, very rare. It is possible, but it's very rare.

So that alarm clock is there. And then what happens is that you did not want this movie to then get over immediately, like, 'Oh, suffering finished, I am awareness.' Because you built up over a long time, no? Maybe lifetimes to get to your conditioning. You did all that hard work to take this play to be real, to get involved in there, to relate to it, to take a narrative to have some weight and value. You did all that hard work. Now suppose the alarm clock goes, 'Ting, ting, oh, I am awareness.' It doesn't usually go like that, you see. So then what happens? How to juice out the ending also nicely, you know? Hardly anybody likes movies with abrupt endings. So you want to make it step by step, you know? So you start a spiritual journey, start a quest for self-realization.

It's like you see in most movies, the villain has oppressed the central protagonist for a long time. No suffering, no suffering, and 'How evil is this person, how are they doing this?' you see. And suppose the protagonist, the hero or heroine, just came one day and shot the villain—finished, movie finished in five seconds. You don't like it though. You want to build up some strands, you know, like you do the training montage in the Rocky movies. You do all that stuff. So you build up, build up. So what happens in the human condition? You start slowly going towards God. You start questioning what is really true. Life is squeezing your throat, so you start to surrender to God. You discover spirituality in some way, and then maybe a bit of spiritual shopping—and this could be lifetimes also, like if this play could stretch out over a long period. So spiritual shopping, gurus, practices, teachers, find something exactly like that, and then better, better, and then you come to home. 'Wow, I am not this; my reality is that of awareness.'

And in that recognition, if you really keep looking, you'll see the mechanics of ignorance, the mechanics of delusion, as well as to how you as Consciousness fooled yourself into taking yourself to be an individual entity. And you recognize that as Consciousness, if you don't buy into your own mind's thoughts, Consciousness—'I am'—can never take itself to be 'I am something,' you see. Who believes the thought? This Consciousness itself, because Consciousness is the only being, you see. And all these powers of attention, belief, identity—all these powers belong to Consciousness itself. There's no separate person to believe anything. So Consciousness itself, in its own light, in its own play, starts to believe these limited ideas about itself. And that is how the individual is born. But the individual is just a set of ideas, a set of notions, which Consciousness has believed about itself.

So this is the play. This is the Leela. And the mind is the instrument of this Leela. Without the mind, there is no individual. Without the mind, there is no world. Because the mind is the one that creates the world through its narrative. If there's no narrative, there's no world. There's just pure perception, pure being. But the mind comes and says, 'This is a tree, this is a house, this is my friend, this is my enemy.' And then the world becomes real. Then the world becomes a place where you have to do things, where you have to achieve things, where you have to avoid things. So the mind is the creator of the world in that sense. Not that it creates the physical objects, but it creates the meaning and the value and the reality of the world for you.

Now remember that even after an awakening or an awakening experience, or even that which you may call freedom, the Maya is so strong that some remnants of this mind always end up getting some belief. You may be as open and empty as possible, 99.997% empty, therefore free from the delusion, but that little bit will still give your expression a particular flavor which will make it 'you' in the sense that, like if Amrita becomes completely free tomorrow, when she sends me a message I'll still somewhere recognize that it's coming from Amrita because there's some conditioning. I mean, she'll write the way she'll say 'Namaste' or something like that, you'll recognize. So that is the remnants of the ego, as the one called it, the 'burnt rope.' You see, the rope seems so real, like 'I am something' seemed so real, and then that 'I am something' becomes milder and milder and milder.

And this one doesn't hundred percent go away for anybody. It has never gone away for anyone. In fact, when the Avatars came onto this world, they also had a little bit of this. When they came, they gave it to themselves also. So we must not presume we will be the first one to be fully aligned, 'I am awareness.' It will not happen. So now what to do with this one? Because it seems like as I'm explaining it, it's very tiny, okay. But this one is more like a virus. If you give it anything to eat, it'll grow. Before you know it, it's going to be again, you see. And the funny thing is you can make anything into food, any notion into food. So even the higher spirituality, if it becomes conceptual, it will become food for this virus of 'I am something.' You see, it's become very tiny now, only one virus is remaining. It is a full infection now, only one virus is remaining but...

This one, because it seems like as I'm explaining it, very tiny, okay. But this one is more like a virus. If you give it anything to eat, it'll grow. Before you know it, it's going to be again, you see. And the funny thing is, you can make anything into food. Any notion into food. So even the higher spirituality, if it becomes conceptual, it will become food for this virus. If I am something, you see, it's become very tiny now. Only one virus is remaining. It is a full infection now. Only one virus is remaining, but now if you get the food of, 'Oh, I am God himself. I am the Self itself. I am awareness itself,' it just feeds on what? Concepts. No? Yeah. So concepts can be believed; perception cannot be believed, isn't it? Can you believe this? You can't believe this. So this, it is perceived. You see, I used to say often, no, 'I just believe this.' And I said, 'But what? I'm just this.' No, you can't just believe that. You need a message to believe, and the spiritual message is also great messages for it to believe. Yeah. So if it becomes like that—'I am this,' 'I could be this'—is it? Then it can cause huge havoc, and it will always find some food to eat.

So that is why the sages found this out. They saw in themselves, and they saw in their students, and they saw in the human condition like this. Basically, a little monkey always remains. So what to do with that one? We must make that one a servant of God. Always put it in seva of God, so it never becomes... ah, it always just like that, please. So Advaita with you, it is very important. And then what can happen is that one of the biggest anchors to remaining in the truth of who you are is the love which is present. In the presence of God, love is very natural. So if you stay with that love, stay with that, deepen in that love, then the mind's attractions—including spiritual attractions like 'I am free,' 'I am a sage now,' 'I should chair satsang now,' 'I should do this now'—all this will not seem as... you do not find this attractive to us because you are so much in love. No?

All of us remember being in love. It may have been a long time ago or recently, but you remember. Are you bothered about much else? Especially when that in-love feeling is new. Living in that love, if you're doing everything, you're believing in that love, everything has happened. That love, love everywhere. So that love comes from where? Has any person ever been able to send love to you? You see, where does that love come from on this side? What is that source of that love? The Being itself, the presence itself. It has never come to us from outside. It's always God that has given us this love. But because the mind cannot fathom it, it has to place it on objects and people on the outside.

So if you stay with that love deeply in your heart—and unconditional love means it's beyond conditions—whether you're experiencing suffering in your life, whether your life is tough at the moment or it is easy at the moment, your love for God is not dependent on those things. It is unconditional. So when you stay with that love, you're remaining actually in God's love for God, God's love for you, your love for God, whichever way we want to call it. It is just love. Anchored in this love, then servitude also seems easier. It's even more beautiful. Then it is soaked in love; it doesn't seem like hard work. But when it's not soaked in love, it can seem like difficult. 'I have to do it. I have to be humble. I have to be faithful. I have to be grateful.' You know, like too much work. But when you're in love with that, you see? So if you're in love with someone, then to be faithful to them, to be kind to them, to be grateful to them, all seems very easy. But without that love, it can seem like emotional work.

That is why I have been saying that insight is what we discovered in terms of to Know—to Know with a capital K, not to conceptually know—to know reality, self-knowledge. So to know, to love, and to serve: these are the three elements of spiritual life, true spirituality. Now the thing is that initially everybody's temperament is different. So when I talked about awareness, insight, all of those things, half of you may have switched off. 'I'll come back later,' you know, when the topic or theme is different. So it doesn't matter where you start. It doesn't have to be that you start with insight and then it goes to love and servitude. You start with love sometimes. You don't know what that consciousness is, but you realize that there is a God and you can love that God. You could just start from there. And you see that there is a God, there is a presence. I may not recognize it, but even if it is a belief that I have for the moment, my love is not a belief. My love is pure. My love is true.

Or you could start with servitude. You could start by realizing that there's too much pride inside you. You take yourself to be too special. You take yourself to be something all the time. So start by becoming humble, becoming compassionate and grateful to life. If you start that way... so whichever way you start, it doesn't have to be one or the other, you see? And it doesn't have to be only one. It could be a combination. It's not just like we often say, 'Your temperament is like this,' but it's not just temperament. It varies from day to day. Like sometimes you just want to be in that love. Sometimes you want to inquire. Sometimes you want to go do some seva and help some people. So it varies day to day also. So although, yes, there's a God temperament we can say, everyone else... but all these elements are important.

And don't feel that with that... what is left of the ego after true awakening or insight is so little, why do we have to bother so much with servitude and love? Okay? So why can't we just remain open? That'll be so much easier. It seems like too much work, see? But are you noticing this one? This one itself is the one that needs to be in servitude. 'Why can't we? Why can't that one?' It is not open, empty, you see? So if you still have a flavor, if you still have like a coloring, you know that in your heart. So that flavor must be kept in service to God. Many people had maybe authentic insight, but then later caused more trouble than actually help because they were not done with their conditioning. They were not able to remain in servitude. They started thinking that they are special, that they're somebody, and the rules don't apply to them. 'Morality doesn't apply to them.' All this became very convenient awakening. So we must not get into those situations at all because to the spiritual ego, exploitation is not exploitation; it's an entitlement. Okay? Nobody exploits their children, their brothers and sisters with an idea that they exploit. They just put themselves into such a delusion, so much ignorance, that it becomes like an entitlement. Yeah. And they have all the best Advaita excuses for it.

So let's not presume that we don't need to be in servitude. A humble way for me to tell you that is that we can make a deal: if one day you don't need humility or servitude, I'll tell you. Don't come to that conclusion yourself. Also, you'll realize that one thing that happens in spiritual ego is that you stop missing the nudges. I mean, you start missing the nudges. Life is poking you, poking you, poking you, but I was just like, 'I am Brahman, I am Brahman. Nothing is happening to me. I am Brahman,' you see? Which is true, but if it just becomes conceptual and a way to avoid the inner conflict that is happening within you, then it's just you using the concepts of spirituality to bomb yourself so that you don't have to look at it, you see? Use every poke. This is every poke, you see? Because what can get poked? Right? Humility does not get poked. Can you poke humility? It's like somebody's humble, no? If somebody is like that, then you can burst them. It's actually only pride that can get poked. So when the poke comes, put that into your inquiry or surrender that in your servitude to the Divine. You can just pray and say, 'Thank you, Father, for this event or this situation. I don't sometimes recognize what things are for, but I trust you completely that you have given me this Prasad. It must be based on your will, so I accept it wholeheartedly.' Wholehearted acceptance also. You can surrender who is not liking this.

Okay, I may not read all the chat, but some messages... one of the messages is: 'But Father, now we are just guessing. Yes, maybe there is something to the world which mind has to find out to make heaven on earth. Maybe there is a meaning which is beyond what we know now. Maybe it is not just a game without any meaning.' Yes, yes. So it is not just a game without any meaning. It is actually very amenable for a lot of meanings. You can call it an evolution. We can call it a learning ground. We can call it a test. We can call it God experiencing love for himself. We can call it so many things. So it's not... it's very, very amenable to meaning. But can we at this moment conclude that this is what was in God's mind when creation happened, or as this creation is happening now? You cannot say it, you see.

Um, your point is valid that if God has not revealed it so far, it doesn't mean that he'll never reveal it. So if you... one day he will. My feeling about this is that it's too broad for the way the human condition is at the moment to fathom. Amazing. Because in my heart, it is not as if it is not known. It is just that there are no constructs to be able to enumerate it, to just pull it out. It's a very good point, actually. So your intuitive insight will always be much, much broader and bigger than what this human play at the surface will be able to communicate. So you must not become impatient with that. How it happens here mostly is that I start getting some just some signals, like something starts... like in satsang, something will come for the first time. 'Okay, what is this?' you know? Then I'll hear it. Something is trying to say, you see? But the words are not there. Then over the next weeks, months, years sometimes, something develops. And in the outer expression, that which gets known in the heart easily is instantly, intuitively, sometimes can take a long, long time to put into words. And sometimes impossible to put in words.

The constructs of reality make no sense. The constructs of reality make no sense. Yes. Like how I got here. Yes. And where is it, here? Even here, this... I just wake up here. Yes. It just began. Yeah. Nothing makes sense. Making sense is too tiny an instrument to make sense of God's play. I said when you ask this question for a long time saying, 'What is this? What is this?' The intellect is too small. Okay? Trying to measure this room with a thermometer. You can measure this room with a common thing, which is the wrong instrument. So our mind, intellect, is too small to fathom the reality. Okay, next one. 'Father, please explain a little bit more on I am aware and believe the thought also. Can you come up? I can't understand the questions here. Wait for you to come.'

Now, very good. So once I literally woke up with this question and insight that you are speaking about right now about the elements of spirituality and the order they come in. I feel like the deepening of servitude is coinciding with the deepening and the love for God. Yes. And also the deepening of insight of love and servitude. Is it with as you remain in the insight and you remain open and empty?

You can try this experiment actually and see if you can keep the love in check. Try to keep love in check and these days what you really are can't do it. It is coming on. Insight... most of you may have seen my message actually on the group. So what does it mean to be a true servant of God? Am I faithful to his reality? Or faithful to his reality? And each of those words you can make a full satsang out of them, you know. But to put simply, am I presently taking him to be just an idea, or is he a living presence here right now? Am I relying on my intuitive insight of his reality presently, or I...

Most of you may have seen my message actually on the group. So, what does it mean to be a true servant of God? Am I faithful to His reality? Or faithful to His reality? And each of those words, you can make a full satsang out of them, you know. But to put simply: am I presently taking Him to be just an idea, or is He a living presence here right now? Am I relying on my intuitive insight of His reality presently, or have I suppressed it to some distant corner of my mind? And the 'Oh, God is here'—is God really here? Just like I am sitting in front of you, your neighbor is sitting next to you, all the ones on Zoom are there—do you give them more reality than God's presence, which is your very being?

This is a very important question. What are you taking to be more real? If God's reality is more real, then you tell me something, you tell me nothing, you see, I can't really get upset. I can't really get shaken because God is with me. It's not a concept—a concept which gets then blurred out when some new concept comes—because He is actually with me. He is actually with you as a real, actual being, as an actuality. So, not as a force of nature, not as a scientific principle. That's why we have to be careful of the words 'awareness' and 'consciousness' because sometimes, if you like, it's like electricity is powering this light and magnetism is making the computer function, or you know, these forces are there. Just like that, there is an awareness and there's a consciousness. No, we're talking about an actuality, an actual being which is more powerful than anything ever.

So, literally, your very being is God. Notionally, it's not just a feel-good idea that 'God is everywhere' and 'God will take care of it.' Nice ideas, but really, who are you talking about? The most intimate, you see, it is you yourself, your very presence. But as long as the remnant of the 'me' is there, for even the remnant of the ego, it is the most intimate relationship possible. The most intimate relationship possible. And if you have this relationship, nothing really can affect you or hurt you in life. You will never go anchoring to the world with a begging bowl asking for things, wanting things, grasping things, because you have God in your heart.

And what should our attitude be towards this God? It has to be that which is of faith and servitude. So, the first element of servitude is faith. Because to rely—how do you know God is here in your heart? How do you know this is not just lip service and big talk? Or inside, is there intuitively? You know, you see. But faith is what? Suppose reason will come. Reason will come, no? Like our families, and they will say, 'Be reasonable,' you see. 'Be reasonable, don't overdo it,' you see. 'Like this, God doesn't come like that to anyone. You have to do stuff for thousands of years, then God will come. Be reasonable. It doesn't come like that. You're fooling yourself,' you see. Reason will come, or other people's minds will come.

But to value your own insight, even at the cost of looking stupid to others, into your mind... your mind will see you throwing away your life. 'You're still young, get a grip.' I'm not saying don't do it; I'm just saying do it in balance. Okay, it will come with all this prodding and pleading. But if you rely on your faith—and it is not a blind faith, it is a completely organized faith because you are not relying on just a concept, you're relying on your own intuitive insight. So, either your intuition is lying to you and deluding you, or you can trust it with your life. But there will be always times where it will seem like it is a risk, you see. There will always be times where it will seem like it is a risk.

And life gives you so-called opportunities, but you feel that it will require you to be in this service to God in your heart. It may seem like a risk. 'Is this stuff really real? Are we all just deluding ourselves?' I know Jesus is complaining, no, no, doesn't complain too much—'Heaven on their mind.' Okay, so to be faithful, especially when life comes and shakes you and tempts you, not to leave, not to lose sight of the fact that God is with you. What else do you want? God is really with you. But you can't just conceptually say, 'God, this is me, God is me,' because that will not withstand life. Like a conceptual spirituality does not withstand life. It gets shaken out. Life comes and slaps you, your girlfriend comes and fights with you, or your partner comes and fights with you, or you lose your money. Something happens. Gone. Where is God? 'Right now, you can wait, I have to fix my things.' But that is the difference between like a notional, conceptual idea of God versus a true living with God, a true living in the light of presence.

So, we need to deepen our faith. Like I was saying, multiple level—I said ten, but maybe a thousand times, you see, because I've seen that we get shaken too easily. We forget about God really fast. What does this one tell me? 'Oh no, then no God, nothing.' This becomes important. I'm happy if it is true, but no matter where you are, it can still deepen by a multiple, a huge multiple here, because that deepening is endless. So, to rely on your intuitive insight, come what may, to risk and bet your life that your faith is true is the first—and it's not in order of reference or anything, but the first one we've discussed in terms of the quality is of servitude.

And even this will take care of all the other things, actually. Any of them will take care of all the other things, including insight and all that. That's why it's so beautiful. So, if you just have a deep, deep faith and remain in God's presence, love will come, insight will come, everything, everything will come. Humility will come, gratitude will come, everything. So, this is faith. Then humility. If you—and I've spoken a lot about this, so I won't speak so much about this—which is that if you fill the lane with yourself, there's no room for God. If you fill your space, your inner space, with 'me, me, me, me, me,' and even 'God is for me,' then forget about it. Empty ourselves. Do nothing. What you take yourself to be is, even according to scientists, it's a 99.9% space between these molecules. This moment, they can mostly space on you. So, if you take yourself to be the body, even then you're nothing, okay? And in the magnitude of time and space also, this body-mind is nothing. This body is nothing at all. So, don't live as if you are somebody, that you have something special. There's nothing like this. To know that you're completely, completely unimportant. And the minute you start to become something, the minute you start to take yourself to be something, then it is not that God will not nudge you. Hopes will come. Don't get into any sort of denial.

A conceptual advice: faith, humility, obedience. What is obedience? To follow God's will. It means what are we not following? You're not following self-will. We're not following living on our own terms, so to speak. Yeah. Now, what happens? What happens to us on a day-to-day basis? We are very quick to determine what is right. And the minute that you determine what is right or what is better—the mind is constantly proposing to us, 'No, this is right, this is better, this is wrong'—then you will be tempted to follow that self-will. Because once you've determined that 'I am right, another is wrong' or 'another is right and I am wrong,' did you wait for God to tell you? Did you wait for God's presence to move you? Then where is the obedience?

So, obedience has to become moment to moment. The following of God's will has to become moment to moment. You cannot just say, 'Okay, now today Ananta told me to do this, I did that, I'm so obedient.' And Ananta doesn't tell anyone to do anything anyway. That is not obedience. You must be fully surrendered to a God-directed life, a God-dictated life, moment to moment. And you don't have the excuse that 'I have not found God.' Those who have not been in satsang may say, 'How to follow God's will? I haven't found Him.' We are so prevalent, so honored that we can even make a statement like this: that God's presence is palpable, it is tangible for us. So, are we saying that that presence, that beingness, cannot run this life? Then I have to make it run this life on my own terms?

So, in India we say that we must all follow our Dharma, but most have a deep misunderstanding about what Dharma is. There is no higher Dharma than following God, than to follow His behavior. That is the highest Dharma. Can you keep everything aside and follow God's word? It may attack your sensibilities. What happened with Arjuna? God Himself was his best friend and Guru. He also agreed to be a charioteer on the battle because He probably realized all this stuff will happen. So, when they made the trade between the army and Him, all Krishna's... so He says, 'Okay, I'm gonna be this one's charioteer and be available to him.' Going in the Gita is Arjuna being obedient. Everything—no morality, our sensibilities, our sensitivity, or everything—is coming in the way. Everything which is blocking, where God Himself is telling him, his Master Himself, his best friend and confidant Himself is telling him that 'I want you to fight.' Then what is your business to sit and think? It's exactly—not exactly, but very similar to the Abraham story. It is no longer our business to sit and evaluate based on any worldly paradigms of things when God's presence is clear and His guidance is apparent.

So, you may have a valid point. You may say that 'My mind often tricks me, so how can I be certain that this guidance is coming from God, or is it coming from my mind?' That's a very valid question. But the first part of following God's will is to be empty of self-will. If you fill yourself first with so much 'I want,' 'I need,' 'I want my life to go this way,' 'I should have this much money,' 'I should have this relationship,' all of that stuff, then where is the room for God's will? Then you are looking for a genie, you know, magic genie. Rub the lamp, do some mantra and say, 'God, please, this is my will, please You be my servant and You help me acquire this.' This is the modern version of spirituality: that God will assist me if I just do some magic tricks.

So, we must get out of that nonsense. Let go of selfishness and self-will and make space. Be empty. When you are empty, haven't you seen that God moves you? Whose life has become static and vegetative in being empty? Whose life has become vegetative when you try to be open and empty? Did you say no, you see? I think my experience here is that it becomes even more like full-on, just like moves with a beautiful light. But it's very important for us to follow God's will by emptying yourself, emptying yourself of individual problems. Usually, you will find that once you get used to that, then God's voice will become apparent to you. Then you can say, 'I woke up today and God told me I should do this.' You don't have to rush into that because it's true that the mind can trick you, yeah. So, don't... and if it is rushing, then most likely it is the mind anyway. God is not in a rush.

So, I've given you the tools also, how to know it is coming from the Satguru presence within or God's presence within. If it is accompanied by unconditional love, or the presence is palpable, or the reality of yourself as pure awareness is clearly apparent to you, then you can trust it as if it is coming from God. But also, I give you the guarantee that if truly from your heart your intention is to follow God's will and you end up getting tricked by the mind, God will make grace even out of that. So, you don't have to fear the mind so much that, 'Oh, maybe this is...' Your intention truly to follow God and to keep your plan for your life aside and to keep your plan for the day aside... you're very sticky about these things. See, we say we are fully surrendered to God, okay? But if God just changes a little bit of your calendar, you say, 'Oh, my day is all messed up! How can I live like this? You know, such difficulty, I planned all my meetings.' When the rubber hits the road, that's when it comes—all the lip service, armchair spiritual.

The mind says so much that, "Oh, maybe this is your intention truly to follow God and to keep your plan for your life aside and to keep your plan for the day aside." You're very sticky about these things. See, we say we are fully surrendered to God, okay, but if God just changes a little bit of your calendar, we say, "Oh, my day is all messed up. How can I live like this? You know, such difficulty. I planned all my meetings." When the rubber hits the road, that's when it comes. All the lip service, armchair spirituality, is not worth anything.

So, are you willing to surrender your whole life to God's will, or do you think that somewhere you know better? Like, let's play it safe. So, obedience may sound like a simple word, but it requires a complete... so it requires full faith, humility, trust. So, we've discussed three elements of servitude. The fourth one, I feel, is very beautiful, is to just have a prayerful attitude. A prayerful attitude when life squeezes you, or even without that, rely on God. Create a God instead of trust in your own strengths. Don't be scared to be weak and go to Him. Don't think, "Oh, but if all seven billion of us pray to Him, then He'll have too much to handle. I will take care of this myself."

So many times, you know, the mind puts all these ideas that we are actually taking care of God. God is available to us in every moment of our life, much more than we'll ever realize. So, we never need to... time doesn't work for God like it seems to work for you. God, you're not racing against the clock every day as the 24 hours are getting over. It's not like that movie, you know, Bruce Almighty, where all the emails are there and He's just sitting and replying. It's not like that. The infinite time... He's got infinite time for each of us. Are we using it? Or are we relying on ourselves?

So, if some guidance has come and we are not clear, is it from You, God? Pray on it. "Please help me, Father. Help me, guide me as to what to do." And of course, you are free to use whatever expression of God you resonate with the most. Here, I use Father because I refer to God as Father and Guruji as Father. So, it may sound Christian, but whatever you feel resonates closest to you, you can use that. And I was saying that these are the elements of servitude. Someone actually said, "Father, what about gratitude?" That's very beautiful, actually, because just to be grateful for... He's given us so much. Every heartbeat, every breath. We have so many complaints: "Why didn't You do this for me? How could You do this to me?" But He is giving you a breath. What made you entitled to it?

Nothing can make us entitled in front of God. Nothing can give us rights in front of God. So, we must never forget His grace and His mercy. And the beauty of all these things is that you don't have to plan your days, like, "From nine to eleven I'll be faithful, eleven to twelve, well, you know, I'll be humble." It just becomes an inner attitude. And you see that all of them are interrelated, and you see how much deeper your insight is. Okay, you may feel that what we started with... you see, the nature of pure reality is pure awareness. It's called Brahma Gyan. It's supposed to be the rarest, available only to the rarest of the rare, huh? But you are noticing that what is needed is not some accomplishment or spiritual progress. What is needed is innocence, an openness, and the cup is not full. Then children who are coming, many times for the first few, they have had this insight.

So, what you know is that the mind's temptation won't seem as strong if you are anchored in love for God and if you are anchored in servitude. So, insight, which is to know yourself; love, which is a certain accessible, beautiful way to meet God; and servitude, which is the best way to keep the spiritual ego in check. Don't let your mind normalize God. Don't let it regularize it. You're talking about God. The mind wants to make you higher than God. It wants to make you at least like peers, you know? There's some sweetness like that if it comes from innocence; you may say, "God is my best friend." Like that, it's okay. Really, there is no comparison possible. So, you must be left more in awe than you know, and that then becomes reverence.

Reverence is like a deep love and trust mixed with some awe, almost bordering on like a fear, but not a fear. Just bordering on that. Because if there's a huge tiger in front of you and you know that it is actually harmless and it loves you, see, but just being in front of that huge tiger, there will be some awe. That's very healthy, actually, because it prevents a kind of casual sort of... so we never forget the honor and privilege it is to have this holiness of His presence within us. And that is the danger of just using words like beingness and awareness. "Oh yeah, there's beingness, but I have gone beyond that to awareness," you know? It can be coming... so you must be careful of that. Because what are we saying? We're talking about Consciousness, God Himself. "No, no, I am very Nirvana," or "I am really..." Be careful of the mind's position-making because it doesn't know what it's talking about.

That in the light of which Ram and Krishna and Jesus have lived in this world, that in the light of which a zillion universes can come and go in a blink of an eye—stay deep in your intuitive meeting with That instead of allowing your mind to regularize it, normalize it. And then every day you will feel like, "I am even more of a beginner than I was yesterday." Every day you feel like, "I'm talking about God, I've just got a grasp of His toenail, not even that." The normality of the discovery of God's light within yourself must never become like, "Oh, normal thing, but I moved on to awareness," you know? Thank you. Yes, it's natural in your spiritual so-called journey, you will have times where you will marinate and the Absolute will become... you'll enjoy loving the presence of being. All that is fine. But don't become mental about any of this, especially with an idea of being something great or special. Okay, are we running late? Let's quickly take a few questions. Maybe you can come.

Thank you. Thank you. Your image is mostly frozen, but I can hear you well. Okay, good. I wanted to speak to you today because I've been struggling the last period and, yeah, I just get into very negative states and it feels difficult to overcome it. And I know it feels like there is a lot of ego in it, but it's just... I don't know how to... yeah, I just mostly fight with trying to stay on top of it or to be, to not be negative. But it's just like a fight and I get very tired. And yes...

Yes, so don't fight with it. This is probably the worst way to deal with it, and maybe we've discussed it before as well. So, fight means to entertain this level now. So, it's saying ABC, you're saying XYZ. It's saying, "Oh, this is so..." That is the way that you would fight with it, and it leads nowhere, no? So, what is that famous saying? "Never argue with a fool," no? Never argue with a fool because first they pull you down to their level and then they beat you because they're good at it, at playing at that level. So, don't fight with the mind at the mind's level. You have to transcend it. And the way to transcend it is to remain open and empty. And if you feel like open and empty is difficult, then you can remain in the presence of love in your heart. Do the inquiry, the invitation... some of the tools available to you. So, but I would just say remain in the unborn, remain in the no-mind. And if it seems too compelling, then inquire or use any of the tools which are there. Have you tried? And then what happens?

Yeah, I tried. For example, I'm sitting with this prayer that you gave us, and sometimes I sit for one hour and it's just a little bit of space, but then I just... it gets covered pretty quickly. But maybe I'm still like in a fight or I don't know, I'm trying too hard or I don't know what. But and then there's some right now...

Yeah, sorry. Do you experience your presence at the moment?

Yes.

And you love this presence? Like hug it from the inside. Just love it like a child.

I guess there's a lot of fear that it's just not working. I just can't get to peace and I'm going with this fear. It's like a lot of ideas from the mind just with fear and proposing, "Oh, this is not going to work. Look, you have all these problems, you have to fix this first."

Yeah, that is the nature of the mind. That is the nature of mind. Okay, so before we come to that, then, when the mind offers you all of these things, you find it very difficult to just let them come and go?

Yeah, now that I'm speaking to you it feels more easy, but when I'm doing it by myself it's so easy to get into all it. "I just can't do it, it's making me worse," and all this stuff.

Yes, so don't stop speaking to me.

And also like when you were guiding... yeah, when you were guiding us in the beginning, you were asking about who is aware and all these things, and I feel there's so much resistance and something is so defensive in me. Like the mind is so... it has so many... like I feel I just don't have a clear sense of that, like that I am in that place, you know? And it's painful because I would like to see that, but then I'm also like, "Oh, I'm..." To be first, we have to be relaxed.

Yeah, so what can happen? The mind will push us in a disease first, or "They're not getting it," "It is not happening for you," all of that. So, it makes us the opposite of how we need to be to come to the innocence of this self-discovery, you know? So, first, just one thought at a time, just let it go. Yeah, let it go. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to get anywhere. Just one thought you have to let go. It's coming, it's going. That's all. It's coming, it's going. Moment to moment, thought by thought. Of course, the thought will come and say, "You can't do it, it's too difficult." It's okay, now because Ananta is with you, you know all these things, but let them go one thought at a time. Don't worry.

There is also like a very start state, like anxious and tired and like, I don't know. And yeah, I just let that also be, you know?

Yes, let it... let everything be and let the thoughts just come and go. It's okay. Okay, so don't worry about anything else for the... till the next time we meet. One thought at a time. There you go. Not ten, not a hundred, not ten, just the one that comes, that's all. Because the mind will scare you, will say, "It's too difficult, I can't do it." But one thought is never too difficult, and you only have to deal with one at a time. And keep talking to me. I'm with you if that helps.

Yes, yes, it helps because otherwise it just makes me want to give up and just feel hopeless. And with you, anything... thank you.

Maybe last one for today. We'll just talk to Poonam.

Namaste, Father. Audible?

Yes, yes, my dear. Namaste.

Okay, there is some internet issue so I don't know how long I will be able to speak. In the beginning when you were doing that inquiry with the lady, you said one thing to that girl like, "Just be aware and let the thought... believe the thought also." That I didn't understand what you were trying to say because at that time I was also doing and I was in awareness and I could not believe the thought. Then I thought like, how it is possible, like remain in awareness and believe the thought also?

Yeah, exactly. So, I was just trying to illustrate the same point, actually, saying that as you're aware, you never actually... nothing ever changes for That. But it does seem to change, but it only seems to change once you believe a thought. Now, what happens usually is that if you're sitting empty and your truth is apparent to you, it is very difficult to believe a thought. It's very difficult. So, I want all of you to get a taste of the effortless as well, where it can seem so difficult to let go of the mind on other times, but when you welcome it, when you say, "Come, come, I want to believe something," it seems so much more difficult to believe or to identify.

True. And in fact, there was no interest at all in that. Like, I was not interested. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay.