Anything You 'Know' Will Cause Suffering - 15th October 2018

Okay, let's go. One is clear: that you're not going to get anything here. That is clear. It is not going to be an additive process that you will add something to yourself here. That much is clear. So if that is not clear, be clear about that. This process of spirituality is not about adding something to the idea you have about yourself and therefore you will become spirit. Spirituality does not mean adding spirit to person. It is only negating the person. It is only negating any idea of separation that you have. So that much is clear. We are not going to really add something to ourselves; we only were to remove. That is important to see first. It's the process of cleaning up. It is the process of removal. You can call it satsang, you can call it whatever. The sages have called it delusion. Now, what is being asked of you? What is being asked of you to get rid of? So it's clear that nothing new will be given to you. What has been asked of you to be rid of? This 'me'. This notion of 'me'. This belief system called 'me'. Is it?

So now there is a trick. The trick is that you are rid of it now. You see, this is not a magic trick. It is just naturally gifted to us. You are rid of the 'me'. Nobody can tell me that they carried the 'me' into this freshness now. Then how, why does it seem like sometimes that we do? Only after what happens? Nothing new will be given to you, yes. What happened with this false sense of separation, separate self, 'me'? This is already... you are rid of it. But only sometimes it is like you are not. When does it seem like you're not? When you believe a concept or thought, emotion. When you come into a notion of existence, when you leave behind your motionless existence. So that is all that this is about. If anybody wants anything more than this, it is not here. This is all there is here. If somebody wants experience, no guarantee. If somebody wants some label or certificate, no guarantee. That's all this is: to remove this false 'me'. All that is needed is to not become delusional about yourself. That's all I've said since the beginning of my satsang career. I've said it in millions of different ways. That's all I've actually said. Because if it were to be some sort of an active process that you will get something, then that would be a big lie in itself. That means that what the sages have said—the truth does not come and go, the Self is always here, it is not changing—all these would not be true because then you would need to add something to yourself already to become the Self. So this we cannot say.

So what does it take for us to drop the next notion that comes from the cellar of notions called the mind? That would also be a notion. A mental condition would also be an idea. Now, it's your move.

If it was so easy... yeah, you know, it says it was so easy and also says in a way it is. And you've heard it all the time. There's a difference between you and me, not essentially, you point that out. But from believing, and I'm still more caught up in the illusion in this, yeah.

So let's work at that level. It's fine. So you also say fundamentally there is no difference, like essentially there is no difference. Okay, so what is the difference?

I still believe too much 'me'.

So if that is the only difference, and that is the only difference, then stop it. Stop what? If you would not believe whatever the thought said, would that be a denial to you?

Well, then comes another 'but'. It says like, it is that, you know, here.

So then if it feels that it denies, what you can do is that you can allow it to come and examine its veracity. No, examine its truthfulness. Is it that also we've done? We looked at all these concepts that come and we looked at their truth value and we see that it's all meaningless. You see? So once we have done that and see that whatever is from the mind has no truth to tell you, then you have to let that go if it is not true anyway. How about that? The denial just seems sometimes that even though in some moments then I have to refer to the part that has been seen, that those concepts are... I don't know, that they have no truth value.

Yeah, but then I would have to refer to the past also, to past experience where this was just evident by itself. And then it's like, 'Oh yeah, but you remember you are just awareness because you've seen that before.' So you're not like... but now I'm saying not even that.

Yeah, not replacing one concept with another. Nothing. There's no... have you ever had the experience of nothing? I know we give the 'nothing' to the mind, it makes a dark empty space or something, but that is not nothing. It is still dark and empty. What I mean, what nothing is like... there's kind of no focus on anything. Like, you know, nothing. Like to really... like it is nothing to focus on. That's it.

Yes. Yeah.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean when I say that the 'me' is left without a reference point. What would you lose in that?

Just a lot of trouble.

In a way, I feel like without her... you feel like there needs to be some sort of culmination to the seeker identity which you had. Not just you, I think generally, some sort of an end to this sort of seeking. You like some sort of hopeful ending, really, like some sort of conclusion of a seeker, some sort of this way. But what if it were just this and whatever? Exactly. So many years ago, you know, a girl, she was talking like this and she said to me, saying, 'I'm saying with full honesty, I'm not done with this play.' So I can just feel like that actually, this 'me', I still have some expectations from it. You see? She likes something. So it's good to shine our light a little bit on that without any sense of guilt or moodiness or something. If I was to ask you, what do you want from this 'me'? If there's some expectation from it?

We had that self-same time, that dead conversation before, when I said then what I'd like to be free of here is one particular kind of feeling. So that I would like to decide.

You see, there's also been showing you that because you've never actually had the same experience twice. The labels that we use, including fear, is it a pointing to something which we don't really have a handle on? We just presumed what would happen. If you had the same labels but they could be terrible, like dog food or something flavor, or really nice flavor, but these are just labels. To say that 'I want to be free from fear' implies that you have a good understanding of what fear is. Generally, we don't know. If I say it's just an unpleasant feeling, yes, but that is okay. Examine this. This is going to sound very strange, but I want to submit to all of you that the difference between what we call pleasant feelings and unpleasant feelings is also mostly conceptual.

I was going to say all. Maybe that could be too much to hear. In a way you're right, and I've seen that very young actually. But I mean, I don't know why I'm taking so much. Okay, but then even if a very... if an emotion that we call pleasant, like I don't know, some excitement about something, it's getting too strong, I even find it unpleasant.

Thank you. It's too much. So in a way, it's just an episode. The point, if I have to draw out the conclusion on some excitement, I know you're saying this is that in this seeming human experience as consciousness, the spectral model clearly unpleasant to really pleasant, you see, it's not as spread out as we might believe it to be. The gap between pleasant and unpleasant is not so much. When we do a true examination of pain, for example, you just look at it, you find elements of pleasure and even pain. And like you mentioned, this like pleasure, you can find pain in that what is defined as pleasure. You see? But one thing I want to really pose to all of you is that your adding that layer of thought or concept to it does not better your experience anyway. Like the idea that 'I must be free from my pain' does not actually help us be rid of it. Even if we conclude that that is bringing resistance, it only seems to prolong it or make it more difficult. And again, I keep making this statement that I am not speaking about the responses or reactions or actions of the body. I'm just speaking about our inner attitude towards it. If the body goes to a Panadol and has it, it's okay. If it has to be taken to the hospital, that's fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm speaking about an attitude of not being open because we have labeled it as this 'addict' and we think that by resisting even wordlessly... we think that by resisting wordlessly, we think that... yeah, the mind always claims that it is helping, but it does not. All our biases take more power than it seems to play.

And these thoughts that come up, that was the seeming start because of you saying, 'So what do we want from this me?' In that moment, there was actually no experience of fear, but because the term was there, it was able to use that term to pull out memories in a way, or point to memories of past experiences of fear. If we are also empty of terminology, then that whole compartment is empty. Like if that label was empty, if our conclusions about past experiences were not stored there. So it sounds too much, but say forget about the notion of fear just for now. Everything just for now. We are not projecting into the future. See that when concepts are dropped—and it can, it happens in an instant, that's really not so difficult—then somehow another thing creeps in saying, 'Yeah, like the dropping is independent of any concept.' It doesn't need any concept that 'I am awareness' so drop it. It's dropping. But then the concept comes in: 'Look, you keep dropping it because remember you are awareness.' This cleanup job happens on all our concepts independent.

Everything just for now. We are not projecting into the future. See that when concepts are dropped—and it can happen in an instant, that's really not so difficult—yes, then somehow another thing creeps in saying, 'Yeah, like the dropping is independent of any concept.' It doesn't need any concept that 'I am awareness' so drop it. It's dropping, but then the concept comes in: 'Look, you keep dropping it because remember you are awareness.' This cleanup job happens on all our concepts independent of in which compartment we store them. And that's why I started today by saying that that which you consider to be lies anyway, you could have believed them in the past, but you already considered them to be lies, so they are gone. You withdrew all the truth values from them. But that which you still continue to consider some sort of a truth, it has to be withdrawn from that. Because that to which the term awareness presumably is pointing to does not actually have the term awareness.

And there can be something, a sense of not wanting to let go of these, because it can feel like this is all that I've got. As a seeker for whatever many years, this is all that I've got. I've got the notion of awareness, I have the notion of the Self. But now if I leave those also, then what is going to be left? In strange ways like that. Like I said, a year before I came to Bangalore, I was kind of... it was resonating what he said, but in a way it can get like, 'I have no clue what he's talking about, but he's right.' And when I was here with you like two years ago, maybe I had a more clear seeing, and afterwards it made sense what he said. And since then, I kind of understand it also on a mental level, not just abstract. So, I don't know, that's like a walking stick. And it also feels good in a way because then it makes sense and you have something to guide yourself with, because you already have seen a bit more than before. So it's very easy... I don't know how to get rid of that because it's there, no? It's important, but you know why it's also the way... I guess everything phenomenal has an upside and a downside. In the darkness there is nothing which is, you know... I don't care if it's just positive or apparently just negative.

I can resonate with what you're saying, that after being in satsang then you might feel like, 'Yes, I heard that, oh yeah, I had no sense of what it meant, but now it's clear this is what it was pointing to.' That is good in a way. But clearly, what I want to show you is more radical than that. More radical than what is being said in thoughts, and more radical than even the greatest conclusion or understanding that you can have about yourself. And I know that it can feel supportive, that 'I have a sense of what is actually being said.' But if you were to not learn any concept now, also ever, then maybe as a little bit of reassurance, I want to tell you that you might have an even greater, deeper knowingness about what is being shared. You see? It's not bad to say, 'Okay, now it's been spelled out a little more, so now I have a better understanding of it.' But as we go beyond this understanding, you might have fear that, 'Okay, I'll lose all of this that I understood.' But what I'm suggesting is that you might have a deeper sense of it, which may not be conceptual or intellectual. But just like when something is obvious, then you don't need the concept of it.

Thank you. I was just about to say, it's like, so what to do now if this content is there? You know, this experience has been there, now it's kind of in the way. So what to do?

Nothing. It's not even there. You see, that presumption that it is there now is not true. It came in again. It can come back again. What about the example that I said? It's very simple, but it's very much what happens mostly in satsang, which is where I'm saying, 'Don't listen to that worry, such as speaking nonsense.' And because our habit is that, yeah, you go to that very voice which says, 'He is saying that this voice is speaking nonsense. What do you think about that?' A little bit of breaking that habit. This one is like it's waiting for you to come to it. 'Okay, you want to know? We can also see.' Yeah, I know, because so many things happen. Yeah, I know what you're saying is cool in a way, but also in a way that's not necessarily... I will still come to something, keep coming to something. Yeah, that's just what I thought. Even if things are... yeah, I know what you speak, but all it has to offer is definitions and rules. And all I'm saying is don't make any reference. Don't begin an inventory. Let me not point anywhere. This me... I don't want to point to any of these things.

Under sufficient reflection, existence and non-existence are the same. But the 'me' is a super persistent idea in my head. It's hardwired. It's in there.

Actually, it's gone. Maybe the 'gone gone' is gone. That it is hardwired is also just an idea. That it is super persistent is also just an idea. If it is super persistent, it will survive this now. All your references about you are gone now, unless you think about it. So that thinking is needed before you can make a reference. All your references about yourself are gone now, unless you think about it. That thinking is needed before you can make a reference about yourself. And when I'm saying thinking, I'm not talking about the process of appearance of thoughts, but I'm talking about giving our assent to it, giving our belief to it, saying that 'Yes, this is truth.' Okay? So then you say, 'If the me idea is at the root, I would love to be free of it.' You are. You are. You are free from it, of it. It cannot hold you. As an entity, it is struggling to catch up with you every moment. It is the poor guy chasing you down. You've already become fresh and new in the now. Now the mind is trying to catch up, but you are here. Exactly when you identify with that, then you feel like you're the struggler, because this poor mind is trying to catch up with me. You're free from it now, fresh and new right now. In this moment, who's the one that is struggling? This one trying to catch up with it. But give me a moment and I'll tell you why you're not. It needs time, you don't. It needs an explanation, you don't. It needs these references, the mind, not you. And when you as consciousness identify as if you are the mind, then it can seem like you are struggling. Can you struggle with no mind?

Exactly, you're not struggling now.

Yeah, struggle with no mind. And right now there is no mind. I know you're not an object in time. The mind is just an appearance within. 'The me is the super persistent idea in my head, it's hardwired.' What do you mean when you say, 'I am free of it now'? Literally nothing to explain. You are free of it now unless you think about it. 'If the me idea is the root, I would love to be free of it.' That is the master thing I posted on Facebook the other day. Many of us go out looking for the donkey while riding the donkey. They see that we are mounting the donkey and refuse to get off it. The Zen master says these are the only two sicknesses he encounters: looking for the donkey while riding the donkey. 'My mind is saying that the mind is causing all this trouble.' There are two sicknesses in my school. First is to go looking for the donkey while riding the donkey, like the thief posing as the policeman trying to catch the thief. And he said the second sickness is the refusal to get off it once you look directly. And this refusal to get off the donkey once you mount it is: 'I need to be right. I have invested in this concept, so maybe it will work out now. I really want it to work.' In the way of the story of the prodigal son, the Father is waiting for him to come back home, but because I have taken that step, then my pride is like, 'Let me not bow down and come back.' This will not admit I was wrong, that my place is in my Father's house. It is, 'I will make it in the world. I'll make it.' Don't even allow that. 'I'm going to make this donkey walk me to heaven and find a way.' So trying to find happiness while continuing to ride our ego is because we investigate these ideas about you, like something should come out of it. All of us can see by now that the ego is a lost cause. Don't try to get some scraps from it to recover something. At least some... like, 'It could still work if I become enlightened. All of this trouble could be worthwhile if I become enlightened.' But that itself becomes the donkey. Let go of all expectations, all references to this form, to this body, to safety, to opportunities. And how to be free of this donkey? See that you are not the donkey. I would have said this 'me' and then is the world. But once you let go of the 'me' as the donkey, then it is easily seen that the world is also just another appearance. You don't have to let go of the world to let go of the 'me'. In a sense, already you let it go. Already you have let go. Like now, resistance... can you say world, not world? Do these distinctions still have power? Are these distinctions still there? The mind will tell you a story, but these appearances still appear and they come and they go. But this is also motions, any conclusions or various motions. But I still am. I am. But the 'I am' is not dependent on... like, the ability to sit. You don't have to say 'I am sitting.' You just feel like it. It is this concept 'I need to exist,' but you don't need any concept. All of this just makes you boxed in to your limited idea of all of these things into the future, ideas from the past. It's all about time, making a delusion about independent existence and a separate self, and trying to define ourselves in these ways. And you can say, 'Throw the bigger box.' What about the motion of time itself? What about space? Have you ever experienced time? Why have the idea of time? The mind predicts motions about time. Time itself, exactly. So what about space? We cannot truly say where what is, if there is anything called distance in reality. I jokingly have said, 'Yes, I know that all of this could just be projected on the eye, and like that is there, but actually it's just light here.' But that also gives too much credence to the body identity. So we have no way of confirming either time or space, and all our ideas about life are in time and space. What can be thrown out? You drive this bus, all of you. What can we throw out? This benchmark and the mountain. What are we willing to throw? What are we willing to not? Maybe, 'Okay, give me the me, so everything else...'

No, you don't want to give that up. I like to report on that. She said, 'I would listen to this from Germany or wherever she was,' she said, 'What is he going on about? This stuff is so strange.' She said, 'Come on, he's my master, he must know what he's talking about.' And I said, 'Come on guys, I actually know what I'm talking about.' Then I said, 'No, what do you know that you're not willing to give up on?' I just want to expose. I don't know what's going on. Such a pull to make conclusions. The word 'feelings,' all these body movements and sensations, especially the seeming negative ones. Negative feelings like the loser, the selfish one, anger, jealousy, the weak one. The seeming power of this seems surprising, almost like they don't belong. Almost like they don't belong here. I see these don't define me, and it doesn't matter if what is coming up belongs to the body-mind construct or not. This mounting of the donkey seems like I have wasted...

To expose 'I don't know what's going on' is such a pull to make conclusions. The word 'feelings'—all these body moves and sensors, especially the seeming negative ones. Negative feelings like 'the loser,' 'the selfish one,' anger, jealousy, 'the weak one.' The seeming power of this seems so surprising, almost like they don't belong. Almost like they don't belong here. I see these don't define me, and it doesn't matter if what is coming up belongs to the body-mind construct or not. This mounting of the donkey seems like 'I have wasted your time and everything you have given.' Also, the tendency is to give it all up, but this is not true 'give up.' It is only a running away, like sneaking out of a job interview. This self-determined self-diagnostics is really not about the Self. All of this 'I'm not worthy,' 'you are not very worthy'—the entire spectrum doesn't mean anything. At the center of it is still the meaning, the donkey which says, 'This way is right, this way is wrong. It should be like this. I should be like this, or I should not have been like this, or should have been like that.' Who is at the center of all of this? So, it's good to expose. I'll just throw it out, throw it away. This empty... the only people of Judea, they should not say 'empty, empty' and then see the opposite. Just think about it. Keep thinking. Just believe you're next. Oh, maybe you know, if I say it, then you stop. Don't say that. All you have to do is believe you're next.

This is blowing my mind. Thank you for the director's cut of the movie. Love you. I agree with you, it still feels like there needs to be a waking up. Like when I wake up in the morning, I clearly recognize last night's dream as a dream. I'm not old. It is a strong shift. Should the same apply to this recognition?

Too many conditions. Like here, if you have conditions with them, you're bound by the 'anything.' It should be like this, it should not be like this, this is what freedom should be like. Let all these conditions go now. Look if any of them are bringing any value to you. It might feel like they are helping me, they're telling me what true freedom will be like, but they don't. Is it not what was five minutes ago seems like now? Doesn't it seem like a dream? All that needs to be recognized, all the truth which is here, is actually apparent to you in your simplicity. If you put conditions on top of your simplicity, of your innocence, then you can seem to get lost in a wheel.

Yeah, I am not willing to give up that somehow again... I am not willing to give up that I somehow see this life unfold in front of me.

If it is the truth, you don't need to have a concept of it. That's all I'm saying. To sit, you don't need the concept. I have to say, to drink water from the glass, you don't have to have the concept of 'drink' or 'water' or 'glass.' It might feel like we do that, so I take the example of the infant who can drink milk without having the idea 'I am drinking, what I have to do.' And in a way, because the representation of how we have taken our insights and made concepts out of them... but if even our spiritual insights needed the aid of the spiritual concepts, then they would not be valuable. Now, I will invite you to forget about 'front' and 'back' and 'not willing to give up that I somehow see this life unfold in front of me.' So these special... bound to leave... these special terms like 'front' and 'back' are not your experience. I know that we use these very terms in satsang ourselves, that life is unfolding in front of you, but those are provisional truths. It holds what we've met. And where are you that you will have a 'front' of you? To have a front means that you must have a location, you see, and size. And we are just blowing away this concept together because just the fact that you were able to identify it and say 'I'm not willing to give this up,' now you've already in your heart seen that it's not the truth-truth. It is just a conceptual, provisional truth in a quest. Now, where are you that you can have something in front of you? You must be behind that. What is in front of you? Must be able to define yourself there, behind something. Then what's in front of you? No position. No position and no object for which that position could have been easy, in the sense that when we here say 'no position,' it can feel like, 'Okay, I am just like an object floating in space' or something like that, like a point. It's not even that. It's just like there is no object to which position and duration can be defined here.

So when we see that all of the similarities are fully in front of you, it is a way of saying that you are... you remain untouched by it. Nothing can happen in the display of light and sound which can actually hurt you or touch you. That is the feeling behind this pointing. But if you end up taking it literally, that 'I am okay, sitting somewhere, and all of this is in front of me,' then all metaphors have their boundaries. Like the movie metaphor, sometimes you can get into this idea that, 'Okay, this is literally a movie and I'm watching it from somewhere.' I see, okay, all these things, pointers, have boundaries, but we have to let go of them also. So for some time, maybe we can let go of referring to ourselves in spatial terms. You don't know where you are. So you don't know what all now. You don't know what you are, where you are, who you are, definitely not why you are.

This one what you told me, I was having one thing with her, with all of us, that I had a dream and in that dream I was very identified. You said that Father started out about you, serious level seven. It was a serious question. You don't know where this is, not maybe they accept what, but you know what it is, you know what you are.

Yeah, that's what I was saying too, that we feel that if you let go of this what we know, we get lost. All of you feel like lost. But actually... but I don't want to see that as a sort of reassurance. Because you will start knowing that also mentally, like there's a deeper knowing which is like, you know, like that. So in a way, doubt is better. In a way, doubt is better because otherwise we will have a very strong concept of what that letting go should mean and what we need to do, and that itself becomes then a difficult concept to shake off.

It doesn't make sense. You can't point. I'm just... you just...

So when you say 'for me it doesn't make sense,' what is that referring to?

It's just me, but not an entity. Like a non-entity. There's something that's... when I see them, I drop the concept and he says, 'Oh, Jesus of imagination.' If I don't answer 'I' in terms of an entity, I can't answer this person.

If you don't answer it as an entity, then you can't answer it. Makes sense. So you said very nice, you said all these times, and then you said to me, 'That's what we're just looking at together.' Which... what does it apply to? Where is the 'me' reference pointing to now? It's a present for saying who I have to say in terms of something else. You see, we have to say in terms of something like given. And you say 'I am existing,' then I think we're a little easier to read in that one. And usually you say, 'Where I have to see, it comes up somewhere back here.' Do you have to put a spatial... so what doesn't make sense is not spatially moving. What is it? Please don't make sense because it itself is not participating in a way, the spatial boundary. What is not in space... so this is the space doesn't make sense. What's not in space doesn't make any sense out of this. Basically, what doesn't make sense? And it's also completely self-referential, isn't it? In the sense that even 'makes no sense' makes no sense. You're not left with that, or 'doesn't make sense,' you're not left with that conclusion that it doesn't make sense. Even that loses its sense. It's not that you come from meaning to meaninglessness, it's just that the term itself is lost, about which themselves are lost.

Somebody should go head over there, right? Then in fact, I have a hint about somebody says because my niece looks like a clap. I see almost every day... must be really actually doing. Because the idea is that you want to know more, have more values. This construct of this world in a way is this additive thing. The more you have money, knowledge, a relationship, the more you have, that seems like that is the better position. Now, I have taken examples where the sages said, you know, nothing, like just messing with us, because actually they're pointing you to this. That's why we call it the childlike. And Jesus said only the babes will enter the kingdom because they're empty of all of this. This is more reductive. It's a great forgetting, you know. So if I have nothing to add, you might take away whatever you think you have. But that can also seem like that will do that for me, like value I had in my life. We're taking away everything. My life I had value to my library, taking away this reduced... spells are still there. 'I must get something here' is clinging. This 'getting' genius. The idea of getting something is seen, but it's still there. So, you know, it seems like what to do.

Yeah, because you'll make a position about it then, that the roads are just busy.

I don't know if you like me also have got used to this style of talking in a way. Like if you were this life completely fresh about it, we did not know any of this terminology. Now tell me how much I would say that, 'Where is it seen?' I say it like roles become... but hey, it happens at something that I see it like that. But what you see at you, what do you see? We just add on more like this. It's just a shortcut. But I think even a child might see, say 'I observe.' But when we say 'I observe,' but it seems we also know, okay, it seems. So you know, the slight difference though. Johnny would look at the phenomenal appearance or something and if he has a look up, do you see something red, something blue, something like that? But this... but we have got a lot more sophistication than that, able to interpret and see, 'Okay, this is what it is like.' This is... we draw conclusions which are not even phenomenal. You know what I'm saying? In the sense that like we... they listen to which is, 'It is all green boughs on the ceiling,' awesome. But what do we do? We make sophisticated conclusions about ourselves that 'this is still here for me' or something like that. But actually, where you see, it's the big one. Like, okay, let's see now. They just see now. What are we seeing? This... whatever you see, you say you see a body, economy, tell them since I sense the path. Yeah, yes, perceive. Okay, let's say perceive for the health. The room is pristine. See, we see so-called perceiving. We're not interpreting. Nobody's ever seen this one. It's just a conclusion. We just try interpretation. A pink elephant is less ludicrous than 'the ego.' At least you have some sense, but you perceive something that we call a look and you perceive the color pink. This 'me' is just completely made up also. What do you feel in the body? She has what he has, relationships he or she has, money at the bank, he wants freedom. So they'll receive that, like using the whole thing, make no sense, forget about it.

We investigated me more and more as like there's this broader perspective, but like it's still the reference to kind of a character like this. I think you know to be like... but it's not as if it's a personal example giving you, just like a character in the play is play, you know? And there's a witnessing or observation that this is happening. It's like very kind of like, okay, sometimes there's more involvement, less involvement depending on the drama that's playing.

So it's not a real... how come you say 'look at the character in the play' and not just all these kind of physically? Because that's central, like always, I say to this guy, it's relating well because it's hands stop more central, more persistent. That's well, yeah, but every other character is one to tell it, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Yeah, is the... what does seem to be the problem? I mean, in a way, it's just seeming to take place in a play. So all kinds of problems take place. Yes, please. Drama has no clue in the seeming problems. So there might be the appearance of problems.

Not just all these kind of physically, because that's in central like always. I say to this guy, it's relating well because it's hands-on, more central, more persistent. That's well, yeah. But every other character as well, I want to tell it, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Yeah, is the... what does seem to be the problem? I mean, in us, it's just seeming to take place in a play. So all kinds of problems take place, yes please. Drama has no clue in the seeming problems. Yeah, so there might be the appearance of a problem and solving the problem and getting new problems, but it's not such a big deal like that. Totally neutral. Many a time it seems to be like just like getting played. It's a good one. Then you can kind of be drawn into it or rooting for it. So, you know, something hoping, you know, like an interaction of some kind seems to be taking place or an interest maybe sometimes be there. It's not hopefully there is no distance. So the reference are just because we're talking about, you mean representing? So it's... it's just like a light one. So they're... so it doesn't have to be totally like, like annihilated. This is no cookie. Maybe one day. No, but what I mean is not distant light, but the death of the body, the end of the play, curtain call. That is tonight. We design that within the difference form ptosis. So being that there is no totally in your reality, it's always total anyways. Even the existence of this being me in this nominal appearance, whether we call it into a waking state, whatever state we might call it, there is no such thing as hundred percent anything. And the state goes, that finished. And even then, that whole religion is not... there is no total or partial roaring. All these reference points only belonging to waking state. But when you're saying throw out the 'me', it's like... it's not like it's not totally like anyone before. I knew I'm in dispute. Any exhibition of consciousness, this is what's being really thrown out. It's a sort of personal identity reference to different as a person. And then why it is important to make this point that it is... don't expect it to be totally is because in that totality, in their expectation of totality, we'll pick up a lot of again personal concepts. But I'm not there yet. There's a lot for me to go still. Using this kind of idea, don't we can be very, very strong in conclusion. There's so much thicker than that. It's constantly taking one.

How are you? Is it total? His Father, it all feels like a dream most of the time. It feels like my attention is creating the view and sensational experience.

I'll be the tanks are very good you. It's hard to see more redundant it will become more and more basement display of existence. Only what attention goes to, that seems to exist, and therefore that itself seems to be the light of the light. That is a positive light. No way for these appearances. It's okay. Just lightly, playfully. Sights can come, cactus man come on. Yes, my dear. I don't see you, my dear. We just hear a little bit, but it's not so clear. I'm gonna mute now just to check if it works.

I was having a bit of trouble with my internet a second ago. Come on now, is it good?

Yes, it's good now. It's good now. I'm gonna mute now so we can hear you better.

I'm Father, happy to be here as always. Happy to see... um, I just go right to it. Everything that you say, I believe it. At least I believe I'm not kidding me. Okay, here we go. We heard you too. I'm going to get right to it and then there was a long break and then I heard everything that I'm saying you actually you... you believe it. You just starting our day in America. It's about eight o'clock here, so I think you're okay. So, um, hopefully you can hear me. I'll start over. I feel like I've been basically faking it to make it kind of thing because I know what you say is true and I know it. So what more can be said, right? So I try to be happy when anyone's trying to be, but I just... but I try to be happy and express love and it might not be the best thing, but at the moment it feels like this is what should happen, right? But there is a feeling of but... like I'm faking it because I'm trying to make it. I'm trying to make this happiness happen. I'm trying to make this peace happening, this peace that I already know that it's here. And that's how I feel sometimes knowing. I feel like this can be discouraging, very discouraging. But then I try not to touch it, you know that scene. It's a scourge field and it seen, you know, what Father said is true. All you have to do is trust the Guru's words. I know that. But that establishment thing that we talked about before in the... I tell myself, well, don't interpret it, don't interpret it. And I'm like, well, Isis has this narrative still going on. Can I just be like, just be quiet, just be quiet? Still waiting for outcome of just what I think needs to happen. And I just feel like I'm faking it as I make it. And I can say like, I know I'm the Atma, I know I'm the light, I'm peace, whatever Father is, I know I'm that myself. I want Mooji or more that, but something that's not that. And I don't... I don't want to be a fraud. I just want whatever needs to be. And I get discouraged because I'm like, if you want me to stop just carrying on, should I keep going? Okay. I don't want to be a fraud and I just want to have a clean heart, clear mind. I just want to how things supposed to be. And I was inquired now from you.

It's a good report again, my dears. Beautiful work. What can happen is that the mind makes these two separate opposites. Like they're all the masters and like them there is no difference, or they said that we are one, we are the same. And then the opposite of that business, I'm just such a fraud, I'm faking it. It's not true because I still have this and I get angry and sometimes this happens, you see. So I'm just a fraud and this is not really not being full of integrity. So what I really want to say to all of you actually is just drop both opposites. And even if it is a bit uncomfortable, easy to drop the opposites and don't know where you are standing. I can either like this or like that. Neither full of integrity nor a fraud. My legacy is nor like Rasika nor not completely truthful, not completely lying. Neither of these. Just drop all of these opposites because all of them are just ideas. And it's okay to be a bit wobbly, not knowing where you stand. It can feel a bit wobbly not knowing where you stand. Am I this way or that way? But in this not knowing, in this... it feels like stress. If you feel that tension of not knowing, actually it's this tension of not knowing in a way which does a good cleanup job. And then that starts to feel more and more natural. Then if I tell you, no, you must now make a conclusion about yourself, you say, no Father, no, I'm just so happy not knowing, you see. Am I... am I a seed or am I a liar? I'm just so happy not knowing. So although initially it might feel a bit like without these conclusions I'm lost, this is limbo, I don't know whether this is left or right, what is Father saying, I'm confused, you see. It will feel a bit strange and wobbly. But as you come to that and you start getting used to this spaciousness in a way, then you find a very difficult to make a conclusion whether you're a fraud or you're no different from sage. You will not find it easy to make these conclusions. In fact, you will find that your mouth will speak lots of things, but you find that inwardly you're not attached to any of those things. So you just be like, just like you, what other mouth speak, this mouth will also speak right now. I know it can feel like I'm speaking these words, I'm making this conclusion, you can feel like that. But as you allow yourself to mean without a conclusion about yourselves, between like I see too many of you now, I'm neither speaking the truth nor am I lying. This is where your mind cannot go. Now what can happen is that it can seem too strange, it can seem too weird. So then, Father, what am I supposed to do? Is this fine? What is happening? Is it fine or not really? But I'm saying throw out all these opposites. What am I supposed to do, not do? Is it fine, not fine? Am I living with integrity or am I lying? Just can you throw them all? In fact, they are thrown out already naturally. They're naturally all gone. So don't pick them up. Let's see what you say now. Let me mute.

Good, can you hear me? Um, so Father, you know, I know that this... and this is very... that's the discouraging part um about everything, you know, because I know this and I even told you about my experience where everything was gone. I was like...

Don't do it for a minute. You have to... maybe I stop you there for a moment. Easy now. Don't know this, because that is also conclusion. Make drop all knowing and not knowing also. Because everything that you know will be suffering. Like it is just the past, it's just a corpse. Or what we are saying that I know this is because we've had some experiences of this. You've been in Satsang before, you heard me say this and you can feel like you can make a conclusion about the same. I know this. So don't know this because leave that. Leave knowing and not knowing. Then you cannot be either encouraged or discouraged, you see. It is empty of these opposites.

Good, hear me Father? I want... I want very much to be obedient to what you're instructing me to do. When I... when I was folding towels, when I was at work a few years ago and I used... I noticed the past and I used Mooji's guidance to what I believe it's actually found myself that I felt like I had a notion. There was a notion that was experience where there was a notion assistance, right? There was a space and all that. And I know there's just some experience, but that experience I would like to recognize as what I was, what I am. Dead, no God, no nothing, no nothing, right? In the fact that that happened, I believe that it... that's how it should be, if that makes sense, right? The fact that he pointed there once before and then that kind of just faded. Like, I guess that's like the point that I'm trying to be established in. Is that making sense? So came up, why is still coming up? I just... I don't know. I just feel very, very confused and very discouraged, honestly. And I promise I want to listen to what you say and everything else. No stick, I don't know what more I can do and I try not to be nothing, but I'm not satisfied with it. And I don't feel like I'm even wasting your time. I don't want to. I want a couple for you no more with this.

So this is very good to point this out to you. Very good to point this out because just like this, what can happen for many of us is that we can have a spiritual experience where it can feel like that is it, it's so clear, there's no me. Yeah. And then everything in our life becomes a reference point to that so-called experience. We might even call it an awakening experience, you see. But that is not freedom. Freedom means not to have a constant reference point about something in the past. Because we cannot truly say anything about the past which we can clearly say it is true. So if something needs a reference point coming from the past, then it is better that we let go of it, even if it seemed like the best experience we ever had. Because our truth, the truth which is being pointed to, certainly is not an experience. An experience can be a byproduct of that, but the truth itself is not an experience. But it is our spiritual experiences many times which can become like chains around us because our conclusions rely on those past experiences. So everything is naturally thrown out. You don't have to do anything at all. It is gone now. This wheel, if you're still with us, because your photo is very still. Okay. But teach what is this recording later. What I want to say is that all that I've said, all that I pointed to, I said forget about the opposites. All that is naturally just here now. Now the mind will just come and offer some conclusions. If you see you like this, you'll be like that. Just let them come and go and don't believe the mind when it says it is like that. This is effort, am I to do it? All these smart things will come also from the mind. Just watch all of this traffic coming. Good. You don't have to cross the road, do you? You don't have to.

What I want to say is that all that I've said, all that I pointed to, I said forget about the opposites. All that is naturally just here now. Now, the mind will just come and offer some conclusions. If you see, you are like this, you are like that; just let them come and go. And don't believe the mind when it says it is like that. 'This is effort, am I to do it?' All these smart things will come also from the mind. Just watch all of this traffic coming and going. You don't have to cross the road, do you? You don't have to transcend anything, nothing at all. It's not complex. The mind will make it complex. Just know that if it starts to all seem like, 'Oh, I'm getting a bit difficult and complex,' know that this is the mind. Just step back, let the traffic come and go. All the opposites will come and go; you don't have to bother with them at all.

You can come up as many times as you want. You don't have to make these conclusions that 'I don't want to come, I want it to be now.' All of these are just conclusions coming, and life can unfold in its own way. Don't be hard on yourself, don't be soft on yourself; just don't have any position about yourself. I hope you watch this recording. I look forward to hearing from this one. He did ask some time ago about the words on my shirt. This is 'Love, Love, Love, Love' and it's signed from Swami Chinmayananda. We got this from an ashram in India called Swami Chinmayananda's where we had a retreat once. Love, love, love. And on that note, we can end today. Dad is back! How would you know? It is recorded. That's it for you, my dear. You watch the satsang and you can come back again soon. I love to hear from you more. Love, love, love to all of you. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba ki Jai! Guru Kripa Kevalam.