An Open Acceptance of Everything that Comes is the Very Basis of Spirituality - 23rd January 2026

I should figure out what you're saying.

No, I'm just saying by placing ourselves in these quadrants, in these positions, then we are able to—the ego is able to have a posture and say, 'Okay, now because I am better off than the others, I can be a bit like this. And if I'm worse off than the others, I can be a bit like that.' You see? And either gives a posture for us to seem to place ourselves and to operate from. But if you are just neutral to all of these, not placing yourself in any construct, now this neutrality, this emptiness leads to the revelation in the light of spirit. When we are empty, it is natural to be open, receptive. So spirituality, in a way, the spiritual path is going out from soldier mode into just an open listening mode.

Soldier mode.

Yes. Because we, with our positions, we become in this like closed defense-attack, defense-attack mode. You see? And that is the constant push and pull of our life. What do I need to defend against? How will I not get hurt? You see? All this so-called self-preservation, which is about preserving nobody. There is nobody at the center of that. You see, it is causing us to give more and more power to the non-existent entity and remaining away from the light of spirit itself, the light of the Atma within. First it's built the identity and now it's trying to preserve the identity, and that's the same—it's the same hypnosis that is used for building and preservation. You see, it's like a constantly collapsing wall. You see? Now, what do you call putting a brick: building or preserving? Same thing.

No.

So you just—this ego is in a state of natural dissolution. You see, because it's in a state of natural dissolution, the mind keeps providing it oxygen, you see, to keep it alive. And within two minutes, if you are empty, it starts to feel like helpless. 'No, no, but something, something, but but this, that.' You see it. So just that allowing that dissolution to happen in our openness, in our emptiness, in God's name, in our inquiry—allowing that emptiness to happen is then to replace the false 'me' with the true one, with the true light of God. You see? Now, what is the master stroke from the ego? You see, to make our spirituality itself an egoic project. 'How am I doing on my spiritual path?' That's one. You start determining yourself on that path. Then, 'Oh, this one is doing better, I'm doing worse. My teacher is like this, my teacher is like that.' So all these framings, you see, can be used in the guise of spirituality to stand away from spirit. What makes us compelled in the false then makes us stand away from the light of spirit. You see, you cannot—like simply put, it's put in all religions that we cannot serve two masters at the same time. If you're serving the 'me', then we can't serve God. And if you're serving God, then we can't serve the 'me'. Now, the trick is what? To serve the 'me' in the guise of serving God. So we have to be vigilant to the fact of whether we are placing ourselves more and more in constructs or more and more in letting go, surrendering. So don't allow spiritual constructs to define you. Don't create a new identity around that.

What did you say the trick was? To serve the 'me' in the guise of serving God? Like our spirituality should not become an egotistical endeavor. How will we know? How will we know?

Pride is usually a good answer. So this pride—and how will we know we are proud? Same irritation, anger, grasping, wanting to be seen, all of these, measuring.

Yeah. Constant measuring, evaluating, comparative, putting ourselves in these comparative systems, structures. Tough.

Every conditioning goes against—every conditioning because conditioning is vasana. Vasana is avidya. And this ignorance called avidya, when we are empty of it, then the Self is allowed to shine through.

Did I get it? So also, did I get it? Yes.

No. Our ego, our personality wants to be a divine one.

Yes, of course. Guided by the Holy Spirit and wants to melt, and our mind wants to prevent it out of fears and out of conditioning.

Yeah. It wants to be special and it will not be really truly be in the presence of spirit or guided by the spirit, although it can delude itself that it is. You see, with pride you cannot enter the temple of God. In with the grasping posture, you can't enter the temple at all. So the spirit is inaccessible when we are holding on to the 'me'. It has to be shared. So if you want outcome, if you want to be special, if you want to be somebody, then we cannot really be in God's presence, and to follow the guidance of the spirit is far-fetched.

So it is not because it's always ego trait mind.

Yeah. It's the ego—not it's not the ego, the personality, but it's mind only that wants—the oxygen for this ego is the mind. The oxygen. Isn't it? Without the oxygen, this one will not survive. I'll give you an example. Take yourself to be a holy man living in Haridwar. Okay. So even if the imagination showed up in our attention of that holy man in Haridwar, by just looking at that image, you don't take yourself to be that. You can't. Yeah. Do this experiment if you like, all of you. Just in the sheer imagination, in the perception of that imagination, you do not take yourself to be the object that you're imagining. Then how do you do it? By identifying with thoughts. 'I am this one. My name is Ramlal,' something. You see? Now you've taken, 'I'm this man in Haridwar. I live on the banks of the Ganga. My name is Ramlal. I have all these friends here.' You see? Now as long as you keep doing that process, Ramlal seems to be alive. You see? Now stop the process. Ramlal will come collapsing. You see, it is the same with our egoic identity. What we take ourselves to be, if we don't take ourselves to be for five minutes also, you'll feel a great relief from the operation of this personality. But five minutes seems like a long time initially. With me so far? Then, 'Oh, I'm nothing,' and this, 'Oh,' then it comes, you know, 'I'm that.'

Yes, so let it all come, but you are not—it's a personality, yeah.

You're not nothing, you're not something, you're not everything, you're not located, you're not dislocated. None of it comes crashing down. Now for most of us to stay like that for a few minutes is difficult. And the sages realize it's difficult because what can also energize it is the idea that 'I am staying like that.' If you were to stay without topics, you would be free. You see? But then the topic becomes to stay without topics. Should I repeat? If you were to stay without topics, so if you were to stay without the poison of topics, then we would be free. But how do you make sure that now staying without topics is not the topic? So then that can become the topic. So that's why we're saying if you're being empty, then you're not being empty. So then the sages said, 'Okay, now for most of us this is too difficult. They need another tool.' How to remain empty is to take God's name or to ask yourself who you are. So the mind says, 'I am Ramlal,' and the question is asked, 'Who witnesses this thought? Who witnesses this thought: I am Ramlal?' So in the asking the question 'Who witnesses it?', we drop the topic. We remain empty. And when we remain empty, what happens? Spirituality happens. That's why spirituality happens. It means in the light of spirit we have the revelation of the truth. We have the revelation of love, of devotion. All that is good is given to us, gifted to us, revealed to us in that open empty. So you ask yourself now. If you don't want to ask yourself, then you just take the name of God. So the mind will say, 'Oh, Ramlal better get this done.' But you are not bothered about Ramlal, you are bothered about Ram. So you're just Ram, not filling yourself up with any identity, remaining empty.

Initially, when very quick like in that process of sadhana, you said like drop all topics but don't make that the topic also, you know exactly. But when you inquire or repeat God's name or whatever, it's a question: are you in that transition making that a topic also or not?

God's name is a safe topic. Okay. So that's a great refuge. Yes. The safest topic we can take refuge in is to make all the layers of our existence God-obsessed. So what's in the mind? God, God, God. Where should I go? God, God, God. What is right? God, God, God. What is wrong? God, God, God. Mind, intellect. What is my heart for? God, God, God. Who do I love? God, God, God. Ourselves, immerse ourselves in God. We don't get involved in the false. But if it is, 'I am doing God, God, God. I should do God, God. I am succeeding in God. I am progressing. I'm not doing it well enough, God,' then it's more 'me, me' and God is for the 'me' to serve the 'me'. Then it is not empty, then it is not safe. That's why I was saying spirituality—the egotistical pursuit of spiritual outcomes in the guise of spirituality is a big danger, very difficult to spot. If you're a Zen disciple, you would be told just you have to find only one answer: 'Why did Bodhidharma go to the East?' 'Oh, I'll read a book and find out.' No, no, no. Find out. Why did he go to the East? And if the teacher is a little more indulgent, then there was a tiny baby goose which fell into the most expensive vase in China, the emperor's vase, which was priceless. And the goose was fed there because people were compassionate, and the goose grew till it filled the proportions of the vase. Now if it grew a little more it'll die, and we cannot break the vase. So how does the goose get out? Don't have to resolve anything else except this question: How does the goose get out? Is it a trick question? Does it have an answer? Yes. You see? But in our usual grooves of operation, we will not find the answer. So in the guise of this very complicated narrative, we've been provided a pathway. The pathway to where the truth is found, or the truth is gifted to us or graced upon us. You see? Yes.

I sure it's for—no, no, it's for you. I just put it on. I wanted to ask something. I don't know if that qualifies as a question in this discussion, but I wanted to ask that when you have a strong sense of identity, that some way lays a foundation for discipline.

Discipline. Yes.

So in the guise of this very complicated narrative, we've been provided a pathway. The pathway to where the truth is found or the truth is gifted to us or graced upon us. You see? Yes. So I'm sure it's for—no, no, it's for you. I just put it on.

I wanted to ask something. I don't know if that qualifies as a question in this discussion, but I wanted to ask that when you have a strong sense of identity, that some way lays a foundation for discipline. Discipline, yes. And when you are continually critiquing and questioning your self-identity, that sometimes feels like a forced antagonization. Um, that is a thing. And when you are in a chaos place, who gives the certainty that I will get a shine of the Self or this soul of the spirit? I can get diluted also and I can go down. That is one thing. And in the beginning, when you were discussing the aspect about being defenseless, you know, that aspect I want to ask. In the spiritual journey—not only spiritual journey, in any kind of a journey, like I am a student, so in that way also—don't you think that spiritual journey is also kind of a battle? Ah, yes. And being conscious of the fact that sometimes I have to be defendant, or attacks—attacks, I mean, not that kind of a thing, but laziness and doubt. So, I mean, there also, like, some force is also needed, even though it feels like something not very good.

Yes. Yes. I see. I see what you mean. So let's go one by one. So identity helps with discipline and in chaos. How can we come to the truth of who we are? That's the first part. No, that—now, it seems so chaotic in the absence of identity, is that questioning? Question, always questioning.

If you're constantly questioning, like, who is this I? Who is this I? It's so oppressive almost. It also reflects in your personal life. Like, you may have some hobbies. Why do I like this? Why am I—why do I love gardening? Why do I love coloring? Why do I like to look at the sky? Always, you know, like—so, sounds terrible. It's true.

Yes. Yes. So suppose we don't bother with the whys. Yeah. But only once we try to resolve the who. Now, if we don't bother with the why, then we can't ask: why should I resolve the who? Okay. So let's indulge in one way, which is: why should I resolve the who? So let me try and simplify. If the caterpillar took itself to be—or let's reverse it. If the giraffe took itself to be a caterpillar and was suffering a caterpillar life, you see, it would make sense for that giraffe to find out that really it's not a caterpillar, it's a giraffe, isn't it? Because all the caterpillar problems would go away. And so it is feeling like, 'I have to crawl on the ground,' you see, because 'I'm a caterpillar.' All of that would go away. Now, if there is a misidentification about who we are, how much trouble is it worth to once and for all come to the reality of that answer?

You see, now it may seem like the giraffe who's taking itself to be the caterpillar, you see, that caterpillar seems to now be struggling quite a bit in the asking itself, 'But who am I? Am I a caterpillar?' You see, would you call that struggle worth it or not worth it? Let it live a happy caterpillar life? No.

Yeah. But it's actually a giraffe.

You okay with that?

No. Not really. No.

Somewhere it doesn't ring true because somewhere within us, like, there's a propensity towards truth, you see. So we're trying to find the right frames of truths. But if the whole substratum of where we are placing our frames of what is true itself is the misidentification, then would you say that, 'Okay, now it seems to be such a difficult question, how can I even answer it? Is there even an answer?' You see, so that seemed like a struggle. But if I said that we have to struggle like that for a while—and that while could be two days or it could be twenty years, no—but would the truth that I found, that I'm not actually what I thought I was, would the truth of that make it worthwhile that one day the one who considered itself to be the caterpillar found that actually I'm a giraffe?

So that is the sort of pros and cons, sort of give and take in this process. It is not that the life of the one who is starting the inquiry immediately becomes rosy and, you know, easy and peaceful and very contra to the spiritual marketing. You know, which is like, 'You come for discourse, you will start feeling so happy and peaceful and blissful,' you see. And that also happens sometimes. But suppose that didn't happen. You see, now suppose that you thought you are this person, this body-man, but actually you were a lion. Now that actuality, that you were a lion—how many days or years of struggling, you see, would it make—would it still be worthwhile to find out who you really are? That is the question, you see. So, have you seen The Matrix?

I was not understanding. So—

It's fine. It's fine. It's an old movie anyway. It may not have aged well. So in that, what happens is they all find out that they're in the middle of a large computer program. What they take to be reality is actually a large computer program. You see, now those who escape the Matrix, it is shown that they live in a very bare-bones, raw environment. There's no special comfort, nothing. You see, like, it's a bit of a struggle actually to live there. So one man who has been told the truth says, 'No, I don't want to leave this here. I have my wine, I have my steak, I'm happy. I can taste the steak, I can taste the wine. I want to stay,' you see. Now some will be like that.

Now we have to look into our hearts and see which one will I fall into? Embrace the struggle to find out the reality of who I am, but to be a warrior for that truth? Or to just go along with what my mind is telling me, what society is telling me, what people are telling me—that I have to be this, I am this body-mind and I have to be that and then one day die? What is the outcome for being a body-mind? Death. No, you see. So like, some are okay with, 'Yeah, I'll die, it's okay,' you see. But most of us, when we look into somewhere within, we don't feel like what we are is going to die. We feel like something here was before birth and something here is after death. You know, we don't feel—even when we tell people, we send people condolences. We say, 'May they rest in peace.'

So who are we wishing?

Yes. May who rest in peace? You see, that one is dead. No. So if there was nothing beyond that body for that one, who are we saying 'rest in peace' to? You see. So intuitively, even people who are not spiritual or religious have found comfort in wishing others rest in peace. 'May they rest in peace.' You see, now if we find that that seems true for us—'I don't feel like this birth was my true birth and I don't feel like this death will be my true death'—you see, then let me find out what is going on. Who is really here? Who am I? You see, and you're right. It can be a struggle for most of us. It was a struggle. It is a struggle. You see?

So, but what—depending on our compass, you see, how much do I want the truth and how much am I willing to lead which seems to me to be a lie somewhere? You see, if not the whole thing is a lie, at least something is not fully authentic about just taking yourself to be this bundle of food. No, nobody feels like they're just all the lunch they ate and all the dinner they ate. Somewhere that doesn't appeal to us. So, so what is the method to find out whether I'm just this all the food that I've eaten or there's something more to me? So that is the process of satsang. That is the process of coming to the company of the truth.

You see, so many sages of the past, thousands and thousands over the years, then said that they came to the realization that they are not just the body-mind, that there is Atma, which is the presence of God, and 'I am that I am.' So if they make statements like this, which can sound very confusing initially—like, what are they saying like that?—but as you keep looking, searching with good intention, with true intention, then all of these revelations become apparent for ourselves. You see, now what if our whole life got spent in this, you know, tough? Because is there a guarantee that you'll get Atma Gyan or Atma Darshan? You see, that's what you should ask. Like, 'I come now, I'm going to leave all my attachments and all the things that I'm grasping onto, and you are saying ask yourself who you are, or pray, take God's name. You're saying all this. At the end, what will happen if I don't get anything?' That's a valid question to ask.

Now my proposal to you is that if you were to spend your life like that and even not get anything at the end of it, there will still be—you will still be happier at your end than if you took yourself to be just purely something that you were not and you went along with that. That's my proposal to you. Now you have to go to your heart and say, 'What do I feel about this?' So, so that is the endeavor in satsang. That is what we are trying to—because all of us somewhere or the other got the inkling that my life is not just this timeframe between birth and death, there is something deeper there. And all of society—and it seemed like there's a lawyer for society sitting in our head also which is convincing us that 'I am this only, I'm this only limited one,' you see. But something—so what is that something that doesn't feel in sync with that? You see that? So that something itself is a clue.

So you'll keep hearing me talk about the heart. The heart, the heart. You see, it's not some emotional airy-fairy heart. We refer to the heart as the source of this intuitive insight. The source of spiritual understanding. So that something, if we follow it, you see, and see what—why am I wishing somebody who is dead? Why am I telling them, 'May they rest in peace'? You see, we say we are praying for them. Somebody passed away, we are praying for them. Why praying for them? They're dead. You see, so something tells us, 'No, not dead.' This—it's not a finality. So what is that something? What is that something? And how is that so universal that even atheists say 'rest in peace,' praying for them? Even atheists, you see, in that moment of death, then they encounter—then they're talking about timelessness. But otherwise, in the day-to-day, what we call Maya of life, then that timelessness is usually forgotten.

So satsang is the reminder of this timelessness. Satsang is the reminder of what is actually here. Who is actually here? Does it feel difficult at times? Does it feel like, 'Let me just drop all this. I'm not going to get anything out of this project'? Many times. Spiritual frustration can be quite strong. You see, but some compass in our heart keeps bringing us back to: 'Okay, fine, but what is true? Who am I? Do I want to die under the full delusion that I am a caterpillar if actually I turned out to be a giraffe?'

So, so what happened is that um I was an atheist for most of my life and then by God's grace or God's humor or whatever you call it, I got things that I wanted. I got them very early at the age of 23 and I somewhere saw that it's feeling like thermocol. I thought it'll be so joyful, I'll be so happy, you see, and that didn't last. So it felt very sterile, you see. So then I said, 'Okay, now this has happened, it's not giving me the contentment or joy or happiness.' So then I really said, 'So what is the whole point of all of this? Why am I here? What is going on? Who am I in the first place?' So when I caught that bug, then I caught that bug. It didn't leave me. So that's how it started here.

Somewhere I saw that it's feeling like thermocol. I thought it'll be so joyful, I'll be so happy, you see, and that didn't last. So it felt very sterile, you see. So then I said, 'Okay, now this has happened, it's not giving me the contentment or joy or happiness.' So then I really said, 'So what is the whole point of all of this? Why am I here? What is going on? Who am I in the first place?' So when I caught that bug, then I caught that bug. It didn't leave me. So that's how it started here. So being an atheist, then I started exploring all the paths. How can I find out? Who can tell me who I am, you see? And then I would come across the concept: I am Atma, I am Brahman, I am soul, I am spirit. All these answers, but that conceptual idea of it did not give any satisfaction, you see, because you know it all, it's all in the book. You read any book, it'll give you all these concepts, you see.

Something wanted a deeper taste of that, like a lived experience of that. You see, if I am the Atma, then show me. How do I know that? Just carrying the concept 'I am the Atma' seemed as stupid as carrying the concept 'I am Ananta, I am Ananta' or 'I am Tapan, I am Tapan.' So it all became pretty lifeless in that way, or didn't give me satisfaction. So the only point of satisfaction here is when I came to the intuitive insight about who I am. You see, the Atma itself showed me the reality of what I am as Nirguna Brahman. You see, then is when the oppressive questioning stopped. Then it became more light, like a contemplation within light, within joy, within love.

You see, till then, did the spiritual path seem partly joyful and partly oppressive? Yes. See, because you have some moments where you feel free, you know, you just feel rested. You feel relaxed. And there are some moments like, 'What's happening? I'm not getting anything,' you see. 'My whole life is going waste. I could have made more money, I could have worked on my relationship more, I could have become a bodybuilder,' whatever. All these kind of ideas come, but then it feels like, 'Am I really wasting my life?' And then you say, 'Okay, what is option B?' So you achieve what you want, you get all the money that you want, you get the relationship that you want, you get a healthy body, but still you die. You see? So what is the big joy in that?

So this question of 'Who am I?' really gets mixed—not gets mixed, but along with the recognition that death is coming, you see, it keeps us on this path of inquiry. Now this may sound very scary and oppressive—'Oh, death is coming, death is coming, and who am I?'—but at least in my experience, I noticed that with God's grace, besides the few times of frustration, mostly He's kept me quite all right. He's kept me quite happy, quite all right. Have I thrown tantrums with God? Many. Have I failed to leave the path before 2009? Many times. So that's just some insight. Maybe it's helpful some way, at least gives you a perspective as to why we are troubling ourselves so much. What, the second part, did we answer that? Kind of. Feel free to just ask anything. There's no wrong question or beginner question. I'm very happy. I'm very happy I got an opportunity to talk about this today.

Initially when we would talk about the path, then mostly my sharing was oriented towards self-inquiry. So people would say, 'What do you share in satsang? What is discussed?' And I would say that we focus on the question 'Who am I?' And the most common response was, 'What will you get out of that? What is the point of asking that? Do you feel very happy after you ask that?' And so somewhere I wanted to say, 'Who are you talking about?' you see. Yeah. But that conversation would have only gone badly. So mostly I would just retreat from that and say, 'No, it's not for happiness. We just... somewhere a bug bit me that I had to know who I was to find out.' So very difficult to explain. Like for most people it just sounds like trouble. No? Like, don't you have enough problems already that you want to add one more problem: 'Who am I? Who am I?'

Mostly we are caught up in a sort of a scam where we are told, first we are told, 'You just study well, get good marks, then you'll be happy.' Then you do that—I didn't do that much, but I realized that others who are scoring well are also not that happy. You see that in that rat race, 'No, I came first, now I have to come first again, then I have to come first,' you see, like that. I did not see happiness in that. Then they told, 'Okay, okay, now this part, now one more condition. Okay, now you get a good job, well-paying, then you'll be happy.' People get a good job, well-paying, go through all things taken care of, still not happy. Then they said, 'No, you have to find now, last, last, okay, find the right partner, get married, get settled, then you'll be happy.' And we all know what happens after that, so let's not even talk about that.

And then they say, 'No, no, no, you see, now there's something called self-actualization. Find out who you really are, get enlightened in that way, then you'll be happy.' So the fraudulent nature of this ladder, without ever really questioning, 'Is this the wall I'm supposed to climb in the first place?' You see, and then self-actualization actually is for the very rare few. Then why did you tell me to study and then to get a job and then to get married? You should have said that the final step in the ladder is only for a rare few. Doesn't work like that. So we are caught up in this sort of societal thing for thousands and thousands of years. It's the same if you read the questions that come to Ramana Maharshi 150 years ago. Same if you read the Upanishads and you see conversations with sages. He's sitting there telling them, 'Ask: Who am I?'

So deeply ingrained is this fraudulent promise of eternal contentment by getting worldly outcomes. Now if there is one who has invested their entire life on that framework and if you go to them and say, 'No, no, no, all this is a scam. All this is not what happiness is about, what truth is about. It's all a lie,' they're not going to like it because they've invested so much, no? So that's why it seemed like we are the misfits, the misfits of society. 'What you keep doing, finding out who you are?' like that. It can sound like that. And if you're deeply invested in identity, then this question is very troublesome because imagine you spent 80 years building Mr. ABC and at 80 somebody comes and tells you, 'But who are you really?' Not easy to face that question. And it would not be scary if somewhere we did not know how brittle the identity is. That's why this path of self-inquiry is probably the least popular form of spirituality.

I read, maybe I can't remember who, but recently I read that if you just want to be free of suffering and so you're trying to figure out in this enlightenment of who you are, that's not a good way because that's just this dissociation. You're not really... he says, but the real question is that who are you? I mean if you want to know the truth then it's okay, but if you just want to be free...

If I want to be free from my suffering, what should I do? I don't know, Father, just...

So I was like most people, I mean I began because...

You have to be very careful of that proposition because this one refuge from suffering, you know...

That also should not be closed because now you are just doing it because you want to be free from suffering.

It's good, it's good if you're doing it because we want to be free from suffering.

No, because I remember that that's why I was interested in it, that I find this ego now—I mean we call it now ego—that it's the ego is oppressive. It's very, very, you know, like you just don't want to live like that anymore. If there's another way, then why would I want to choose this one? It was just, it sounded so fancy and I was like, 'Okay, maybe...'

Big words are big words. The other word which is often misused is the word called 'bypassing' where if ever you are free from suffering in the moment, then in the eyes of some you are just bypassing.

Escape. Yeah, just escapism, false make-believe stuff.

Like in the eyes of some, if you're just happy in this moment, moment to moment, you're just happy, then you must be bypassing. You see, but that's not bypassing. There is a bypassing which is not healthy and that is to live in an avoidance. So you have all this festering within you, but you're just fooling yourself: 'I am so happy. I'm so happy. I am the Self. I am the Self. I am Atma.' You see, like that. But actually inside you, all these layers are festering with unhappiness, with dissatisfaction, with emotions of grief or sadness and all of that, and you're just like forcing, 'I'm so happy, man.' That's bypassing because you're bypassing using just conceptual knowledge and you're not really looking at yourself. You're avoiding meeting yourself.

You see, now the path of spirituality is the exact opposite of that. It is to meet everything in full acceptance and openness, is not to hide away or shirk away from things, you see. So if there is grief here, then that grief must be felt. If there is joy here, then the joy must be felt. Just an open acceptance of everything that comes is the very basis of spirituality. We cannot be open and receptive to the light of spirit unless we are openly accepting everything that is playing out through us. Now what happens is that many confuse this with accepting the narrative of the false one to be our reality. So is the giraffe not doing bypassing by not believing caterpillar thoughts?

Yeah. Isn't the giraffe bypassing?

Yeah. You see?

Exactly, that's my point. But that also we may consider bypassing in the world.

That's a mistake. It's not bypassing. If I found such a 'me' here, I would give it all the respect it deserved. But I just can't find this 'me.' As the great sage said, 'Who am I? Where am I? I don't know who I am.' You see, if I don't know who I am, why should I force the narrative onto myself? Is that bypassing? You see, so the avoidance is bypassing. Looking away, denial—denial is a very powerful way to deny what is playing out through us—those are not healthy. You see, but forcing narratives when I can't relate to them anymore, that's not bypassing. So we have to be careful of big words. Now, if the whole world is suffering but you are happy, something must be wrong with you. You're bypassing.

Father, in the beginning we were saying that comparing and measuring is a...

Yes, or...

Is that a fill in the blanks? Okay. So is a position-making exercise.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was just looking at that, Father, because over here I was seeing the tendency of the mind is like even that airport incident I was telling you, it was about like measuring and comparing and that perfection, it's all in the same. And that comparison is with the messaging of like some fear of missing out on something. And I don't have a question. I was just looking. It's very good to observe this.

And that fear of missing out is also a fear.

It's a fear, Father, which we've been talking for so many years. So the basis of everything is fear. The ego is using fear as a basis to keep me tied up. Right?

Maybe a bit too conclusive for my taste, but not bad. That's okay. Fear is one of the biggest, biggest elements in its toolkit. Yes.

Then it keeps comparing for everything.

It's trying to benchmark my position right in something.

Father, fear, pride, all these just pulling you back into the box of...

Exactly. She's bringing you back.

And not just you, everyone.

When you put another in a box, we put ourselves in the box. When we say that one is better or worse, see, we putting them in the box and then we putting ourselves in the box.

So just clarify. So when we say that acceptance means acceptance without... acceptance of all.

Yes. Acceptance in a meeting. Belief is not acceptance.

So the narrative is the belief.

Narrative comes with believing.

Exactly. She's bringing you back.

And not just you, everyone. When you put another in a box, we put ourselves in the box. When we say that one is better or worse, see, we putting them in the box and then we putting ourselves in the box.

So just clarify. So when we say that acceptance means acceptance without acceptance of all. Yes. Acceptance in a meeting. Belief is not acceptable. So the narrative is the belief. Narrative comes with believing. So we accept everything including the thoughts that come. We are open. Correct?

You see? So everything is allowed to pass through. Now acceptance and so this is acceptance. Correct? You're open. I'm here. Let it all pass through me. That is acceptance. Now belief is to buy into the message which is flowing in the mind saying this one is not right, this is good, this is bad. And the central character of that narrative we can't find. You see it says, uh, my boss is not a good person. You see it's unfortunately it's like most bosses get into that box. So then whose boss? Body's boss. My bank account is running out of money. Whose bank account? Body. You see? So even if we say body-mind, it makes a construct of an entity which seems to have the ability to own things, to belong to things. You see me, mine, and it wants to own more and more and more. But when this entity is investigated, you don't find it. You see, so now is identification a question of blind belief or faith?

Identification. Yes. It's a blind belief.

Exactly. You see and in spirituality we are the ones in blind belief but the whole construct of the me is a question of blind belief. Oh don't ask this question it's obvious you are this only. What only you see what only? Oh this this question is so uncomfortable. No you see what do you mean body? Body. Yeah body. Then you say but body is not have any attachment to money. Who has? Body is not concerned about past and future. Body is not feeling regret and pride who is.

So so this so if I then why would I like when you said you included grief in the acceptance of everything that's coming. But I how would I have grief if I didn't identify?

Everything all all you remember we used to talk about first grade emotion and second grade emotion. So anger, grief, lust, all of these are first grade emotion they just come when we stretch them out by involving the person in it by making it pride, guilt, you see all of these second grade are not emotions in themselves but involving the identity in it. I should not have done that. So or that one should not have done this to me. So then we take that natural anger and make it resentment. You see anger may arise like some animal walks into the room fear may arise you see but how do we stretch it out and make it like a condition? Oh I don't want you see like that. So that stretched out by involving the identity is not matters can be more not exactly mental but what I was saying um um guilt and resentment are more psychological more embedded.

Exactly. Deep conditions.

So anger stretched out like given an opportunity to play out in our expression towards others. All that happens with identity alone. See otherwise. So when um like Anandamayi Ma said no don't get angry unless you have the power like Durvasa you burn someone with your anger but you can bring them back to life then don't get angry don't allow yourselves to be used by anger don't allow yourself to be used by irritation.

Father just a basic question I want to ask so when the comparison When I see that the comparison has happening in the mind in that moment either chant or inquire. Yeah. Or that's what is the antidote to the who's better than who.

Yeah. Chanting works like taking God's name works better. No, I'm saying you can inquire when the comparison is happening. Who's better than who? Yeah. Yeah. Why are you laughing at me? Now look she's saying she thought the question is the chanting is better or inquiries.

No no no for me it works. It feels a bit unhealthy to just offer it to God and inquire. It feels like there's emotional pain. It wants to convey and I don't know if that's the mind actually.

What do you say about that? See you see what plays out without identity.

But if language comes it doesn't mean it has to be mind. I see how it plays out without the identity.

Without the identity. Yeah. Without the identity. Like if I'm feeling pain, I don't say I'm feeling pain. Pain is there. That that's what you mean. Should you say I am feeling pain if you cannot find the one that is feeling the pain? That's the fundamental question like would it be not natural if some some energy called pain showed up in front of you? Would you say I am feeling pain or would you say there is pain? There is pain is also there and pain is also there. Which I you're talking about? The true space of awareness which is witnessing sense of I. Yes. But that I is not feeling the pain. The I is just like the untouched witness who is watching this pain float in front of it. You see, so when we say feeling pain, it's not saying that the feeling called pain has arisen within the I. It is meaning that I am affected by the pain. I am in the grasp of the pain. Isn't it? When we say I am feeling, we are not saying in the space that is consciousness arisen within myself there are these sensations called pain which are not touching my reality. We are saying that I am in I am in the grasp of the pain. I'm in the clutches of the pain.

The true identity I've never known and to invest time into finding that in those moments.

No, you have to invest time in finding that in the other moment. Uh in the moment then in when you're feeling the pain. Yeah. Then those moments become better. If you spend a lot of your time when you're not in the midst of strong turmoil in the inquiry in the prayer then those moments become lighter and only then is it possible because otherwise most mostly you will report that there was no distance in that moment for you for me to say I was just witnessing that pain. Isn't it? It takes practice. And you can't say I will practice only when the...

No, that's fine. Like say I'm say I'm doing my sadhana and okay when I'm sitting in focus sadhana some memory comes up. somebody saying something insulting and I have all these thoughts coming up saying oh they did wrong or they had some condition or some ways to rationalize away the truth of what they said if there is a truth and instead of looking for who is feeling this pain I try that a few times and still it doesn't I feel it's like a bypass I'm not feeling the pain I'm looking for a way to escape it.

Say I'm not feeling the pain just say who is that that is feeling the pain.

That just somehow that doesn't feel right. I don't know why.

But it feels right that I am feeling the pain.

No, it feels more right to investigate what happened like what are you feeling pained about but not who that you is. What happened to you were talking about the caterpillar and the giraffe? I know but I don't know. I just feels unhealthy I I don't have...

What if you are not the caterpillar and you are the giraffe? You're okay with that? Like to investigate the cause of the caterpillar's pain is more of an imperative. Even if you are not sure you're the caterpillar, you know.

I don't really know but it's worth investigating that I would rather find out why I as a person feel hurt in these situations. Yeah. Rather than find out if there's actually a person here. I am choosing the first option and I don't have a reason. I do want to I don't know and I've brought this up to you many times. I don't know why it's just...

It's fine. Not everyone has to be attracted to finding out who they are.

Not other moments I do that all the time but in those moments it does feel like a bypass. In those moments it's fine. Like I wanted to process what it's going through and reveal like I wanted to feel safe.

Who the pain the pain?

No. Who wanted to this? I don't know. This is a strange thing. The one was...

So in a way maybe we just talking about the grooves and when this turmoil comes then the grooves are strong. So we fall into those patterns of examining the causes. Rather than investigating who is going to happen and that's why we need practice. So we are practicing to change the grooves. We're practicing to not fall into that conditioning. Those vasana they're ignorant. You see but when those moments come those are that's fine because those are kind of like if I was to be a bit cruel then I could say those moments are write-offs. You see because you can't really help it in in the midst of all that turmoil.

But I have this position it's actually necessary and I don't know why I have it maybe because of ChatGPT had something to do with that but but I do feel it's it's to avoid it it's to somewhere it's unhealthy I feel but I don't have you would...

Not agree and that's why you were saying that it would be unhealthy if you were forcing a denial which is only conceptual in that moment. Yeah, that's what you're also saying.

But you've also talked about how trying to do spirituality in the head is not spiritual. That's what I'm asking. Is that what healthy if in that moment we just like no I am happy. I am the self.

No not that even before if anger is there and we just praying this like trick on ourselves like a fraudulent spirituality. You see that nothing is happening to me. I'm quite happy. I am the self. How can I be unhappy? You see, and then we quote from scripture and say, I am that what is that? Most boundless ocean in boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universes come and go. But actually, no, that's definitely unhealthy. That's a denial. Then you're just trying to unless it is I am the boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universes come and go. It comes as a reminder and it leads to that inside you see. But I know the moment that you are talking about is like that falling in doesn't happen you see. So then just to fool ourselves that is bypassing just to fool ourselves conceptually. No no no this is not happening to me. I am the self. That definitely is.

But I'm trying to get at something else. I'm not able to put it into words. Uh maybe I'll bring it up some other time when I have the like yeah I'll bring it up some other time. Thank you. Something related to what Shiv is talking about uh on the pain um like I'm I'm terrified of a I'm uh terrified of a cold shower. Ah yes like as trivial as as that right so fear is like the word operative word there so and and it's actually just pain when I step into that is the sensation of pain and I want to feel it um but like what you said um I've tried it now uh quite a few times and I continue to do it um to the point where um I'm not taking it as a mental challenge cuz I've done that and I know what that feels like. I've sat in that ice bath and all of that.

And with willpower, one can do a lot of crazy things. That's true. Uh that seem undoable. Uh but this one it felt like um like I stepped into the shower then the the observation was the body is shaking, the breath is moving fast. So I was just noting it. All of this is happening. I'm also not fighting it. Um, and there is pain and there is pain and um, and I'm curious about what is this pain? Where is it? And by the time if I'm able to reach there in the 30 40 seconds that I've survived so far, then it's almost like that pain became sweet. Like sweet is still the wrong word, but its texture just changed from fear to like curiosity. Um, that's the only closest I've come to like consciously experimenting with pain. It's very hard to inflict pain on yourself.

Don't have to.

No, no, no. I'm not saying that. But it's a simple experiment to try. Yeah.

I was curious about what is this pain? Where is it? And by the time if I'm able to reach there in the 30-40 seconds that I've survived so far, then it's almost like that pain became sweet. Like, sweet is still the wrong word, but its texture just changed from fear to like curiosity. That's the only closest I've come to like consciously experimenting with pain. It's very hard to inflict pain on yourself.

Don't have to.

No, no, no. I'm not saying that. But it's a simple experiment to try. Yeah. I don't know if that's what Shiv was talking about, but for me—

You notice that strangely enough, pleasure and pain are called the opposites. Like in the dualities, there's pain on one side, pleasure on the other side. But what you're saying is that accepted pain, the pure vibrational quality of it, is not extremely different from pleasure itself. What do I mean by accepted pain? That when it's not inserted into our narrative, it's just met. Then we see, in fact, at the heart of living. When I started my spirituality, they would have an exercise where—I hope I haven't signed some NDA or something with them—but you would, they make you keep your hand like this for a long time. And then one hour would go and in the middle you'd feel like so much pain, but by the end of it you're feeling just pleasure in your arms. You see? And then how did that pain become pleasure? What do we know really? Is it a wave or a particle? This thing, like you have it's really cold. You stay there for 10 seconds long. But it's okay, then you're not—

The body temperature also changes and the contrast is not so much after something.

Yeah.

But I feel like he's saying that just if we allow ourselves to just experience that sensation without the story of the mind—like 'why me,' 'I shouldn't have done this,' all that stuff—then just the pure vibrational quality is not that broadly different in the spectrum between pain and pleasure. It's like that whole 'I'm so anxious, nervous' versus 'I'm excited about going to the holiday thing.' Vibrationally not so different.

What about when you grow out of a habit? Like suppose I was put into a situation where I couldn't have tea in the morning, which I couldn't have.

Yeah.

I was in a habit of having it.

Doctor sir.

Yeah. No, no, there wasn't any and you just couldn't have it. And then after a while you just accepted it and then you just became, you grew out of it and now also it's okay. So there's no pleasure or pain involved in it anymore. But it would have, it was painful before when you—so that also, it's not like becoming pleasurable but it's just like gone. It's just like you just don't have that groove anymore.

This is how conditioning changes. So some of it just vanishes and leaves no trace at all. How was I ever so dependent on this?

Yeah. So it's like an adversity makes you see that you can be resilient, like you're not—

Yeah.

What I'm saying even more, like sometimes it doesn't even need adversity. Sometimes you just grow out of it. Some comes as punishment.

It come as punishment for—

Yeah, punishment. Like it feels like minor death and—

Like a minor death.

Minor death. I mean, like you—

It's okay, take your time, take your time.

Yeah, like you were working in the gym for maybe 2-3 months and suddenly you fell sick and you kind of got deprived of all the good result you could have got. Or you were working on a paper for a long time and after 8 months it got rejected. So it feels—it feels so much grief is there, so much sadness is there. It feels like a death almost.

Yes.

And there is no denial in this cause. That question of 'I' or 'me' or 'self' and this is so acute, like at that point it only, it is there. Like, and that time it feels like final death is more graceful than all of these things. And it also feels like that if there is a God parent of me, how can this thing be so—

Heartless, treacherous, heartless.

And it doesn't matter that if I will get happiness or bliss afterwards, but following this, who can be so cruel and cause so much pain? You know, like it is said in the spiritual discourse that take pain as your blessing, like whatever. But at that point, like, don't have that strength, don't have anything to hold on to, crawl back, anything. Like when you are trekking in the Himalayas and all, that is different kind of thing, different kind of leisure, correct? Comparing to cold work, that is different, but this is so real and seems so—

At a different layer itself.

Yeah. And comparing to it, everything feels that some conspiracy is happening, some—like maybe you don't deserve anything good. And also in that point if you—like life is oppressive in nature.

Yes. Oppressive.

Or God is oppressive. Cruel.

Violent. Like some—

Enjoyable violent.

It's getting some joy out of troubling us.

Yeah. Yes, like troubling us. I don't know but—

Is also maybe—

At least me too is—

Yeah, yeah, me too like—

A very real thing in there. And another thing is that even at that point, even the thing comes that everything is so like—how to say, like I don't want to say Maya because I don't understand it, but it's like trap, trap.

Yes. Okay. So, now okay, I want to devote myself or surrender, then thing is, it's an escapism.

Yes.

Yeah. Like I say, no, it's good in a sense we can have a two-way conversation. It doesn't have to be like this. So when these events happen, no, in our lives so many of these events happen—you lose your business or some family member passes away or something you really worked hard towards and those outcomes don't come out to be how we wanted them to come out to be. So those moments can seem really, really like God is not on my side. No, he's that, to say the least. So how to recognize that? That may be a misunderstanding. How to recognize that? So I would say that what's a good analogy for this? So if you had to write your final doctorate exams, would you just show up for the exam and just say, 'Okay, I'm just going to go for it,' or would there be some other process?

If you just show up, you won't feel that much.

Yes, but you will not pass. So that may be painful. That's what I'm getting at. So, let's say many people do these IIT entrance exams. So my father forced me to go for IIT entrance exam. So I just went, I never studied. So what do you think happened? Nothing. It didn't get through. So now with our relationship with God, it's also like that, whether we like it or not. Like the construct of human relationships, somewhat we can try and superimpose similar principles on that. So suppose that you called a friend only when you needed money. Would that one consider you to be their friend?

They would say matlabi or just selfishly has called when she needs something.

So what is a true friendship?

Doesn't matter need or deep.

Yes. Good times or bad times, whatever the need or not be, you miss each other, you call each other, you be with each other. So in a way our relationship with God must deepen like that. Not so that when those things come, then He is better supportive of those who are in touch with Him, but so that we can understand something which may sound strange to you. But if we can see the grace even in that situation, we can understand a deeper growth, a deeper insight in that situation. In a way, let me use a term which is not accurate: we can understand the mind of God better only if we have spent time with God when those times are not there. You see, just like you say, 'I have this horrible boss at work. You see, every six months he gives me some big trouble, like he'll spoil my appraisal. He won't give me the pay. He has something against me. He must be a terrible person.' Now, your parents or somebody senior, your mentor at work may advise you, 'You know what you should do? You should just try and spend some more time with this one because some people say he's very nice.' So how is this dichotomy coming that you are saying he's the most terrible one? So maybe you should try and spend some more time with them and when that situation comes, bad appraisal comes, you see it's always better when you know that okay, these are the principles, now he set expectations clearly. I'm not equating this to God, okay? I'm just saying because He is much more, in my experience, much more merciful than that. But I'm saying that to get an insight into why do—like the most popular spiritual question is 'Why do bad things happen to good people?' Isn't it? That's like the most popular spiritual question. So, unless we have spent time with God, we will not get a sense of how He works, what is playing out. And all the ones at that time tell you, 'No, this is for your good, this is for your growth, He loves you.' It'll sound like rubbish, like complete lip service, right? So but I would propose to you, again my submission is, if you spend some time with Him, then you notice what is happening. This is what is happening with Him and myself if there are two in this relationship. But if you've not endeavored to spend time with Him and we say, 'Okay, now I want to understand in the midst of this tsunami why is He doing this to me,' then that becomes very difficult, you see. So that is one. The second thing is that suppose that you are very close to one of your parents. You need some time.

No. Right.

So you feel you're very close to one of your parents, but it's the same analogy actually which is coming, which is that you don't really call them versus you call your parent even when you're very busy. What will they feel? Or let me put it in a better way. Suppose your father said to you, 'You have to call me every night at 9:00. You have to do it.' You see? And you do it and you're doing it by the clock. Is it a great expression of your love for him?

No.

It's not, because it's almost regimented, didn't you see? But He has not mandated anything. Suppose you are very busy, you have a big paper to write or big exam coming up, and you called and said, 'Oh, I'm very busy, all this thing is happening, but I was just missing you. I just called to say I love you.' That's a true sign of love, isn't it? So in the same way, when we do it because it's regimented, when we do it because it is said that, 'Oh, your life will be better if you just pray' or something like that, then that's not a true sign of love. And God doesn't regiment it in that way, you see. So my point is that if love is forced, then it's no longer love, you see. So He has given us the choice to love Him or to not love Him, you see, because He wants a true love. He wants a truly loving relationship.

So let Him love too. Huh?

Yes. Yes. It's a very valid question. Then why doesn't He love me first like that?

Like show it.

Yes. Yes. Yes. My child. So I'm with you in this and I've been there. So now if we have created a distance from Him, we don't turn towards Him. You see, then are we able to even spot His love? Yeah. So if you never speak to your dad, how will you know whether he loves you or not? You see, so is your dad's love only going to be conveyed whether he sends your monthly announcements and he takes care of your rent? Is that the only sign?

But one primary sign should be that I felt loved, be that in any way.

Yeah. Even if you were distancing yourself from Him?

That's not how any relationship works.

So suppose you met this nice boy and you said, 'Maybe there's a future here. Maybe we should go out. We should date. We should explore the possibility of a longer-term relationship.' But you never call him. You never write to him. You never do anything. And then you say, 'But I expected him to love me.' So if we don't accept that in our human relationships, why do we accept or expect that in a relationship with God? So to find out His posture towards you, you have to meet Him at least.

So suppose you met this nice boy and you said, "Maybe there's a future here. Maybe we should go out. We should date. We should explore the possibility of a longer-term relationship." But you never call him. You never write to him. You never do anything. And then you say, "But I expected him to love me." So if we don't accept that in our human relationships, why do we accept or expect that in a relationship with God? So to find out his posture towards you, you have to meet him at least. But if you only remember him when life is squeezing our throat, then even then, my experience is that even if you remember him then, he's quite helpful. But I remember a time where I did not feel that, you see, because I did not know him well enough.

So now, why do bad things happen to good people? So when we continue to pick absence of love over love, you see, continue without realizing in many cases, but we continue to pick absence of love over love and still then people end up like all of humanity is picking the absence of love over love where God has given everyone the capacity to love. You see, do we love each other to the full of our extent in every moment we are with our brothers and sisters? We don't. You see, so when relationships fail, when wars happen, when people are dying because of hatred, isn't he the one who should be asking, "I gave you the capacity for love and see what you're doing?" You see, is it then for us to say, "Why are these bad things happening?" Or is it for him to ask us, "Why are these bad things happening? I give you such a heavenly world where if you just loved each other everything would be fine."

But evil is also created by him, right?

Evil is just the absence of love and like we said, he's not forced us to love him because then that would be like the father who said, "Call me 9:00 every day." Then it's a force. It's not love. So there is no evil except the absence of love.

Isn't the absence also created, right?

See now, go back to the example of calling your dad. Is there not you not calling created by him? You see, now if he forced you to call, you see, then that would not be love. You see, so for now it is good enough to say that the choice to love or not love he has left to us. Yes. And every time we make the choice to be in the absence of the full love we can offer to him or to our brothers and sisters in the world, then that is the only error, that is the only sin, that is the only evil. So I would say before concluding about him, like any parent says, "No, I've got this boy for you to see," before concluding anything about him, at least meet him. Fair enough? Before saying no, at least meet the boy for you. But if you fall in love, then remember this conversation we had. Yes. I mean with God. Mike, please at the back.

Oh, her sharing just reminded me of this death-like situation that I experienced a couple of decades ago with my best friend. Um, we were both 35 and we were work colleagues and best friends and I would even say like a spiritual friend in the best way that word describes a friendship. Um, and he was a very inspiring, like just a great human being to be around and then got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Suddenly, we used to play squash and he used to complain of a backache. And he just kept doing physio because at that age, 35, um, and then suddenly after 3 months he got diagnosed with pancreatic and we saw the best doctors available in the world and they said, you know, with chemo maybe 6 months, without chemo maybe 3 months, and he had a one-year-old daughter. Um, so and he was an atheist. Um, so and he would see me go to the Vedanta Center in San Francisco. That's where I used to go once a week.

And after a lot of back and forth with doctors, he said, "Hey, I'm at my limit of using my mind to figure out whether I should take chemo or no, just not go through that suffering." Um, so I said, "Look, I'm out of ideas as well." And then he said, "You know, can you take me to that monk that you go to in the Vedanta Center?" And I was like, I wasn't sure because he was very, very, you know, you know how they are, you've been there. And so we went and it was a senior Swami, must have been in his 80s, really beautiful soul, soft and hard depending on who the audience is. Um, so I went and met him and before bringing my friend Paddy to him, he asked me about his personality and he'd never met him before but he was going to be asked these hard questions. So he asked me, "How is he? Can he handle... he seems like an intellectual, can he handle strong medicine?" I said, "Yeah, to the best of what I know, but this is death and you know, it's out of my pay grade also, of course."

Anyway, so Paddy went in and sat with the Swami and I kind of just sat outside the room. I could hear what they were talking and initially it was, "Why me?" and all of that. Somehow he brought him to, "Why not you?" Like earlier we were discussing with Shiv also, we need, you were saying we need to look at both things. Yes, the why of the something and the why not of the something, and that can be seen very harsh to somebody in that situation, but yes, Paddy handled it and I guess the Swami was responding intuitively. And for me as a 35-year-old, it was like, it was mind-blowing. Like I never thought about the flip of it, why not you? And you know, we can talk for hours on that topic, but then the next thing was, he said, "You're a scientist by training," and he said, "Yeah," and he said, "How often do your instruments fail you in the lab?"

And Paddy said, "Yeah, all the time instruments fail me." And Swami said, "This instrument that you are living in has failed you, but it has nothing to do with who you actually are. And the next 3 months, 90 days, you can live a life that people who even lived in their 90s have not got anything out of it. But in the next 90 days, you can get a lot more out of it if you try to find out who you are." And you know, I'm just sitting there outside and this guy's an atheist and I'm also going through this stress. And so that conversation got over. It was like 90 minutes and then I was silent and dumbstruck. I drove him back. We were just in the car. Nobody said anything. And then he put his hand on my hand as I was changing the gears and he said, "Thank you for this gift. This is the best thing that happened to me."

Now that was just that one and a half hour. But then I was interacting with him for the next 90 days, and Father, he was just a completely different human being. He was holding our hand. You know, in America you become homophobic, like men don't touch men and all of that, but he just became a loving soul. He had Krishna by his bedside and he was the so-called atheist and it was just, it turned into like a joy to see him go even in a way, and like left me so much inspiration. So like, I completely gone through what you're saying, like we don't know the mind of God and I would have never imagined him to embrace that journey in the way he did and yeah, just so grateful to have learned from that. And he still lives, you know, kind of as a spirit in that reminder all the time.

Good. So yeah, just wanted to say that. Since we are asking why questions today, which are usually I say don't ask why, ask who. We can ask ourselves why don't we love as much as we can? Why do we economize on it? What are we scared of? Why has separation become the norm and to love become the exception? And there are a few things. One is that mind attacks things at the root. So when we change the very definition of love to special love, like just me and you, special relationship, you see, then it's no longer universal. It's no longer unconditional. It's more of desire under the garb of love or wanting in the garb of love. But if we allow our heart to just naturally, organically spread its love, then we don't get into egotism or wanting and desire.

So don't confuse love with what most of the world calls love. I'm not talking about the Hallmark movie love. Not that I'm saying I'm in opposition to that, but I'm just saying that from a broader space then that can naturally play out, relationships are formed. But second is just a fear of rejection. A fear of, "Oh, what if it's not reciprocated? What if?" You see? So the sharing of love must be an end in itself. It must not be a give and take or expectation because all the love that we ever feel is going to come from our own heart. In the world we think it's going to come from another. He must love me or she must love me. You see, suppose another loves you deeply. Where do you feel that love? Your heart only. So it's all there already. All the infinite love is in your heart already. Allow it to embrace your being and allow it to embrace the universe. You will never find a shortage of love.

You're saying today someone was saying that it seems like everybody is just crying for love, calling out for love. You see, but we are calling out for love in the wrong place. We think another will fulfill us. They think another will complete us. That feeling of completion, even if we had in a relationship, always came from within ourselves because we were not clamoring maybe for a few moments for more or anything. We just allowing love to take ownership of our life. So it is not dependent on special relationships from the outside. And this very cliché line, if we just see the depth in that: let go and let God, or let go and let love. And you see that you have rivers of love flowing in your heart. You see, but you have been roaming as if you are thirsty in a desert. Enough capacity is within you to love the entire universe.

But if we take want out of the picture, isn't it strange that universally it is said Atma within all of us, in our hearts he is there, and yet we feel unfulfilled? We feel trouble because of what we see on the outside. Although he is right here with everyone, in everyone, as everyone. So if Ram Ji is really here, then does he have a shortage of love for you? Why is he living inside you? But he doesn't, maybe somewhere we have this expectation that it should be one direction. Love is always when those in love lose their boundaries and it's a sharing, a communion, a spread. Good. So if we say to the Lord, "Love me, my heart is yours," and if you do it, just do this for one moment, you will taste his love. But if your posture is, "I will not bow down. I will not turn towards you. You prove it to me that you love," he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. So true love is only when we are on our knees, not when we are on a horse, on a high. Yeah. True love is only when we are humble in our posture in our outer life as well as in our inner life. You see, otherwise it's just ego play in the guise of love, in the desire in the guise of love. Let's go to Shar audio.

Yes, Ma. Yes. Father, I am not prepared to say anything. Hold on. Just thank you. I'm not prepared to say anything. Just thank you.

Oh, welcome. Welcome. All my love, all my blessings. Okay, let's close with Radheshyam Ji.

Father, thank you both. So nice to have a name like Radheshyam. So Father, I had a similar conversation with my daughter a few days back.

Your daughter?

Not so profound, of course, but ultimately it turned out to be, "If I love, will my problems get solved?" Those, if I love God, then those tangible problems of either getting the paper published or... so that level of expectation starts. So then I didn't have any answers, so I kept just, "Pray, yeah."

Love with condition, is it love? But you know, if a child is encouraged in some way to go in that direction, then many times just God plays in these mysterious ways. How old is she?

She's 18.

18.

Not so profound, of course, but ultimately it turned out to be: if I love, will my problems get solved? If I love God, then those tangible problems of either getting the paper published or... so that level of expectation starts. So then I didn't have any answers, so I kept just praying.

Yeah. Love with condition, is it love? But you know, if a child is encouraged in some way to go in that direction, then many times God plays in these mysterious ways. How old is she?

She's 18.

18.

It's like, can you guarantee it will work? That level of conversation.

Is she testing you?

No, Father, not testing, but yeah, I mean real expectations, you know, even small life issues. So, similarly, is that another solution they see? When we talk, they see: is this another solution to my problems?

Of course it is, but not in a way where you will get answers what you are expecting from. I don't know what her temperament is like, but we may prod a bit and say, 'Okay, so if one day I had nothing to give you in return, would you still love me or no?' Kids these days are very bright. They may not be checkmated by a question like that. Just pray and bless her, so that just her remembering God in this way leads to something deeper. I think what a nice name to have. That is.

What if everything that we perceive in this vast, seeming universe, what if that was nothing but a tiny grain of sand? And that which is beyond this tiny world would be accessible to us in that deep and holy place where the revelation and the revelations may be much beyond we can ever imagine. And that which we take to be reality is smaller and tinier than we can understand.

If you move beyond the limited bounds of reason, intellect, mind, concept, sensory perception, do we find that there is nothing? Is there only this realm of perception here? What is it being held up by? What is the substratum of this world play? Would we want to be just those who look at the waves which are smashing into the shore and taking those waves, lives at the surface, to be all that the ocean is?

Now, most of our brothers and sisters in the world have a reason. They can say, 'But I don't know how to look at the vastness of the ocean.' But we do not have that reason anymore. So if you've been given the mystery, then would you just live in ignorance of that and continue to focus where everyone else is also focusing? Or will you have the faith to jump into the vastness of what is on offer?

Is our spirituality going to always live under the boundary of 'what does this mean for me and how is this helping me?' or one day we will take the courage and dive into that which is much beyond what we take ourselves to be? Will we truly become explorers of the heart? Or will we limit our spirituality to cause and effect? In the sense of, 'Oh, this, then what about me? And then if this, then what about me?'

What if we just let go of this 'me'? Because we have the sense that that which can be let go of cannot be the primal anyway. What if we lose our idea that we will fall without this ego and allow the King of this universe to claim His true lordship over our existence? In our wanting our own kingdom, we deprive ourselves from participating in the true kingdom. May we all live in Ram Raja. May we all be in the presence of the Ram Darbar.

She reminds me after every... now she's like, 'See, what's that?'

Which one?

Okay, you remember that? You've forgotten. You said the pitch.

Yeah.

You told me if I start, she can't move along with that.

Father, you remember that one that you had composed?

Which one? Ramar? No.

No. Now we are putting these two. This nobody remembers.

I remember, I remember, but I don't remember the tune.

I might have it on my phone. Like a boatman. No, boatman song.

He goat. There's more to it. I'll find it.