A Taste of the Impossibility to Convey the Intellect of the Reality of the Self - 4th November 2019
Saar (Essence)
Ananta challenges seekers to move beyond intellectual conviction and spiritual experiences toward a direct, intuitive self-recognition. He emphasizes that the self is more natural than any concept or perception, requiring only the cessation of self-delusion.
If you are having to take the effort to get it, you are missing the point.
The truth is beyond form and formless; it is the ultimate simplicity.
Self-knowledge is unshakable, beyond belief and beyond perception.
playful
Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.
Guru Kripa Kevalam. Namaste and welcome everyone to satsang today. Atma Guru Sri Mooji Baba Ki Jai. Often we've been looking at, we've been joking, half-joking about this: what is this body made up of? It's made up of all the food that we consume. So what is the destination of this body or the final destination? Death. So either funeral pyre or grave, whatever the tradition may be. So the usual trajectory will be—I don't know whether we start the week on this note, but this is what's coming up—what is the usual trajectory? Somebody says they're basically just sitting, standing, lying down, and then going to the hospital and done. So that is the usual trajectory of this body, isn't it?
So this idea that I am going to get something, if that applies to the body, then there is nothing that you can give to the body that is going to escape this trajectory of where it is headed. Because if you take better care of it and things like this, you might elongate that span, but the destination is the destination of this body. So when we talk about satsang, when we talk about freedom, it is definitely not for this bag of food, okay, flesh and blood. So there is nothing in satsang for this. Then what else? Could you get something else? What is the destination of all our smartness, all our concepts, including that apparently not so? Where is it going? All that you know to be there, is it going? Can you carry it along? How long will you take it? Actually, it doesn't even survive this moment.
So in satsang, we are not going to become any smarter. Some of us do, of course, but that is not the use of satsang because that is this sort of like spiritual smartness or spiritual conceptual arrogance or something like that. Now I know that I am Brahman, you see? And somebody comes and does something to you, forget in a minute you have the money. So when the rubber hits the road, as I say, our smartness, our knowledge, conceptual knowledge, is the first to leave us. So it's not for that also. So then what is left? If I'm not going to come to make my body better, I'm not going to come to get a better understanding, then what am I coming to satsang for? Is it to have some metaphysical experience? Now let me define matter because maybe people use that term differently. Is it to have some esoteric spiritual experiences? Is that what we're here for?
And if that is the main goal, which is okay, you see, then there are many workers in many places where these things are promised and they are available. Like there are many places where you could go to try and get these esoteric experiences, esoteric powers, but here is not a place for that. It might appear as a byproduct, but this is not it. It is not the main. It is not for us to get any sort of new abilities or this body-mind to now be able to survive without sleep or see the future or astral travel or Akashic records, any of this. There are many spiritual movements where these are the goal; this is not one of them. And if these things happen as byproducts, mostly the reaction from here is going to be, "Okay, fine," you see? Because even this is not beyond death. Because of our cultural and spiritual conditioning, some projections may appear, some aspects of consciousness that we reveal today. If the next life comes, we may do not even hear about them or they may never appear. So it has nothing to do with that.
So now what is left? So no siddhis, no intellectual understanding, no difference, no body. I've seen the body change while I've been sharing satsang, you see. What are we here for? No, actually we are—so he says to know in actuality what we are. This is what we have been believing about ourselves. So when we say to know, what do you mean by that? So we already said not intellectual understanding anymore. You're the Self, you know it intellectually, isn't it? Or if you've been in satsang long enough, you know that you are awareness. Bhagwan said awareness is your name, you see? So you know. So this knowing everybody in satsang has, or if you come even the first time, you'll hear it: you are the Self, you see. But we want a different type of knowing. What is the type of knowing that we want? Everybody knows in their heads now that I am not the body-mind, I am the Self. So what is the different type of knowing we want now?
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You want more conviction.
Okay, let's take this point. Before we come to self-knowledge, many of us think we have to be more convinced. If I was just more convinced that I am the Self than I am the body, then I as this body-mind would be sorted. Then it was also filled and it's just a matter of conviction. I just have to convince myself more and more. Please, why you believe you are the body-mind, you see? You are the Self, believe you are the Self. But the problem with belief is that no belief is permanent. All beliefs are shaky. Somebody comes more authoritative, more credible, and he says, "Stop all this nonsense, it's all brainwashing. See it all thing, oh, I should make something of your life. You are this body-mind, death is your destination. But you try and do something for yourself, for the world before that," whatever the debate may be.
So a powerful authority or a credible voice may come and he may say, "But all of this talk of the Self is rubbish, you are the body-mind." And because it was just a belief that I am the Self, you see, it will get shaken. So it's not a matter of conviction. As like if you take a simple example: if our eyes are closed and we're hearing two voices, one is saying, "Be careful, there is a ditch right in front of you and if you take a step in front you will fall." Another voice is saying, "Be careful, there's a ditch right behind you, if you take a step back you will fall." But your eyes are closed. So based on who you feel is more credible, you will believe that one. If there's a familiar voice, "Oh, that is my mother, she will not lie to me," so I will believe that voice. Or if a more credible voice comes, "Oh, that is my Guru's voice, so that is more credible, so I must follow that," you see.
So based on what we feel is more credible, more truthful, we will believe that, please. And then if we open our eyes and we see that there is no ditch either in front or behind—it was an April Fool's Day prank or something like that—then there is no need for belief. There is no need for belief. You go beyond belief in your direct recognition. So we go from wanting belief, conviction, to wanting direct insight. So when we say we know, I don't want to know this intellectually, I want to see it for myself that I am the Self. This is how we go, isn't it? And this is the place where most spiritual seekers get stuck. I want to see it for myself that I am the Self. What are we expecting to see? Was it white light experience? There's always a that. I want the darshan of the Lord, which is beyond physical possibility of what is usually seen in the physical realm. And it appears and it disappears. This is the trouble with all experience, all perception, everything that comes, it goes.
So if everything—if you are waiting for an experience of the Self, if it is going to come, it is going to go. And what have the Masters told us, the sages have told us? That which comes and goes is not real. So hoping to see ourselves beyond intellectual conviction has got us into this mess, isn't it? "I see it now, the Self, here it is. I went inside, inside, inside, inside, ah, there was this shining diamond, this is the Self," you see? But just another perception, you see? And attention goes somewhere else, that perception is gone. So what is it that we are waiting to find? Is it just another perception? We see that perception and then we'll have some conviction that I am the Self, is it like that? You can really look at these things because this is what seeing words seems to be what most spiritual aspirants are doing.
So when we say that I want to recognize myself or realize myself, what does that actually mean? Ah, if you call yourself a spiritual seeker, what are you actively seeking? If you clarify this, then I feel like you'll save yourself a lot of time. That's when we start sounding the reason like, "I don't know at all and yet I do." So this is the simplicity of it. But is everybody on this page? So it's not something for the body, not some intellectual understanding, not even some supernormal extraordinary experience. Because if these are the things that we come to satsang for, then I am telling you already that this is not the right place. This is not the right place. And even if these things happen, they will not be valued so much. They'll be taken as the byproducts of the inner insight into the insight. But in themselves, because they are also in time and space, they are not so valuable.
So then what is it? Is it like this sort of a confusion? Because anybody who talks like this sounds really confused. "I want a different type of knowledge which I don't know what it is, but also I do know what it is." If somebody talked to you like this at work, they would just say, "So?" Is it like that? What is the trouble here? Probably only that he has taken self-knowledge to be either some sort of perceptual knowledge, which is, "Oh, I open my eyes and I see that there is no like that," or some sort of conceptual understanding. Aham Brahmasmi. What is it? I've even forgotten that intellectual, you see? So let's look at it very, very simply. Very simply. And desire, it is a spiritual ego which is arrogant, you see? It wants bigger and better things, like more, more than before.
But let's get down to basics, real basics. To have even an intellectual understanding or even to have a perception, you have to be, you see? Now let us not just infer this because it sounds logical as it is being said. Just check. To have a perception there, have you had a perception when you are not, you see? So did you ever understand something when you were sleep? So your existence has to be before any of this other stuff can happen. Before any of this other stuff can happen, you have to be. Now, what do you know of your own existence? How do you know about your own existence? And if some of you are confused about this, then this toy will not be for a moment. If you're new to satsang and you're confused about this existence, don't be for a moment. And if you succeed, just tell me. So that I am this being, how do you know? How do you know?
And if it is being confused with some sort of intellectual understanding, then just pretend as if you are completely fresh. You don't know the meaning of any of these words, and yet can you stop being? So this affirmation that I am is on what basis? Where does it come from? Do you have to think about it? Is the I-am-ness like some shining diamond? Metaphorically we can say it is actually the one diamond sitting there or something, yeah. In fact, if I tell you to stop being, you see, no, it is just not cool and tired to stop being. But the being is just there. So what are we getting? If there is a sense of being, but I am also aware of it, I primarily am saying I am aware of this sense of being. Now what kind of power is this awareness? How do you know that you are aware anyway? How do you know that you're aware? Will you thought? Have you seen it? What is the color of awareness? To see it, it must have some material. How you know you are aware?
It sounds like a man, I suppose. I'm the knees here for a moment. All that you speak of this awareness is all nonsense. Have you seen it? You seen it all? If I'm like a mission color commentary, I'm the objector and you are the disciples of Shankara now who are supposed to respond to this objector. I say all your talk of the Self or awareness is all nonsense. It is just conceptual. You haven't thought of all rubbish. Have you seen this awareness? Do you claim that I am awareness? As you see, no, that it's get. What else you going to say? That's all. And you only need to see because I am. How you say like that? It's all nonsense. How you are it? I've seen your—so it's true because it's coming from me. So no nonsense will ever come from you. I'm just provoking you to say this because it's coming from me, it is true like.
The Self or awareness is all nonsense. It is just conceptual. You haven't thought of all rubbish? Have you seen this awareness? They do claim that 'I am awareness' as you see, no? That's it. What else are you going to say? That's all. And you only need to see because 'I am.' How you say like that? It's all nonsense. How you are it? I've seen your... so it's true because it's coming from me. So no nonsense will ever come from you? I'm just provoking you. Say this because it's coming from me, it is true like that. Yeah, maybe.
But as I'm saying, you're deluded. You're not even seeing it, but you're saying 'I am it. I am awareness.' I'm saying to you, this is only complete delusion. You're not even seeing it. You haven't even seen it, but you say 'I am it.' It sounds like spiritual brainwashing. Like, what do you see? You see, I see this body, man. It's going to... I'm going to live my life, you know? Once, carpe diem, seize the moment, all fancy-sounding things. If you listen to me much longer, you are going to get FOMO. So, I can use the voice of the mind. The mind is saying, 'Come on, who are you kidding? What is this awareness business? You haven't even seen it, and yet some guy sitting on the sofa tells you every day you are it, so you just parrot it.' What is the basis for this? Can you say? How can you say? I haven't seen it. You haven't seen it. So, this body, my senses, and all this perception... so that this awareness is aware of perception? How you say that? You saw this awareness being aware of perception?
It's a sense. So you can't see, but it's a sense. Like awareness is like a sense.
Yeah, I know. Okay, I'm going to go back to character. Only my sense works? Sense? Yeah. So there's no... I deserve waking state. Yeah, it was a dream. I was dreaming or some other thing. And now, so that was just some mind-created thing, and then I wake up into the real world. So this body was tired, it went to sleep. In the sleep state, it created all this fantasy world, maybe just for fun, I don't know. And then I woke up into this reality. But he was still there. But he went to sleep. What are you talking about?
Perspective. So from finding what has happened, why it has happened, as you tackle a defeat at all, because it was so simple when you said so. It is. The problem was only that it was believed now. So there was two parts, very clear experts. Our first attack is no case, like a what you say, comment, right? Dr. K, whatever. So they do not... we talk to actually fight that something like comes in the main band. Okay, you have to do it. Obsession or something. Engine. That was first start. The second start is: okay, now you did not do it, that's why there's a bad thing you are trying to do. And when I flew tinted and it says, 'Look at it, you have to dismember it next time. Let us try this.' This is awesome. Okay. And using this example to contact you and, you know, saying of a respect doesn't exist on there. No, these two thoughts, they should be tried to third. It is going to comment, which is going to see these two thoughts, and then it is going to comment on third time eternal. Because awareness is not that, there is going to be a fourth thought which is going to comment on the third time. So, gave does it... can usually is not... no idea what we're talking about.
Why will you have ambition and passion and motivation? Because like themselves, a sentence, all my creationist... if you adjust the pole tonight, yeah. So options come in this as thoughts. I pick one. Okay, I'm going to say that it just comes in my head and I pick what sounds best to me. The second option is to... I look at it and I decide, 'Oh, this is true.' This body-mind... how does the addition was see? Because I learned my mind is now strong, it knows how to produce good thoughts, so it gives me valid options. So as the body, I have to... body-mind, how does the body-mind convert it? It sees thoughts, it perceives, it has powerful person. Okay, thought is coming. This one, yeah, I can do this. You're not driving that hateful thing. I could. But then if you are treating, then you're saying all this, 'Come back to my true body, just like in my game.' Oh, I don't even know that. Why take the chance? Why did you get up from bed saying that? What is the basis for your claim that there is a Self now? What is the basis for your report of the Self as awareness?
Even if you take everything away, okay, like there's still awareness opinion, right? So what happened is no perception. Yeah, but still is the body that is perceiving something specific.
Body stops. Okay, I am saying it is the body that is perceiving. What did you say? Your training enough? So yeah, admit that body is having a dream. Yeah, but it isn't the dream, then it is this body. So this awareness thing just sounds like nonsense. Forget it.
You have some experience of it. I can forget everything, but I can't stop. I can't stop existing. Anything, nothing. You can't stop existing.
I can't stop. So it is making escapism, basically, what we're doing. What you found now? I'm playing the main theater and what it may... the devil. That would keep the natio and really questioning: what is the basis for these statements about the Self or awareness? And almost brotherliness and see, why should we like it so much? We've seen lately, cannot believe in something that had not ever seen. One would like to realize the one that is aware of everything.
We haven't seen in my headache also, but it exists. Hi, there's this 'I' in the body. Everything is changing in the body, but awareness of the body is not changing.
Is there awareness without the body? Have you seen that? What do you mean? It is, you haven't seen. Have you seen this awareness without the body? It is a functioning of the brain? Yeah. Have you seen awareness without the body? So the body is producing awareness? Anything? But you, have you seen it? So we conduct this experiment to begin to investigate it. We use a thought. In that thought, there is the framework of objects, things that we used to say, 'Okay, maybe it is this, but still in that thought.' But basically, all this... let's cut this long. Basically, all of you are saying that none of you have seen this awareness thing and you have it, but you believe it. What are you saying? And to believe in something, you have to... what about this awareness? Awareness, what the awareness? This is a statement, especially if it is turned off us, that sense of me. Right in front of that is where we see thought that we agreed, and you look for this is since your... no, thoughts are not you. Okay, those are not... that's not what we're referring to. Then we can include anything that we can feel.
What about this? I know, but I come because I see that you've been brainwashed by him. I'm trying to help you. I heard, I saw some of his stuff and said... so, so what? When he says you are this awareness...
And I internet... well, I continue to believe them and use that belief to continue to exhibit the person that is this point. How are you? What... what we learned them in so many years? Time signal and it's time to tell you the truth is fooling yourselves because you have no basis to claim this. Do you want it? Do you want to take this? No, no. I'm just unclear. It's like the mistaken belief in the sun. You know the difference between your thoughts and you?
Yeah, I am seeing my content. I'm perceived. So if I say something, it requires you to believe it, meaning it's the thought being shared. You require some sort of... maybe because you have to imagine. Yeah, yeah. But all of you also believing this thought that you are awareness. But what is it?
So no, but I'm expecting that you will see awareness as one big thing and that contains everything. Okay, what will I see when I see it? Okay, what do you see it as? You see, but that's so cool. I look. Okay, wait to look. Nothing. Wait. Okay, I find out empty space when I look. I don't find anything. Yeah, yeah. For a serial card. Okay, but I can't... when I look there, I don't find anything. Okay, then how to see if I am it? Why can't I perceive it? So if I'm a body, I can perceive the body. If I am the solution, colorful ads, just look fine, just to communicate. But I'm totally saying I didn't find using a thought to communicate what I saw. So what's wrong with using a thought?
Yeah, nothing. I find... should I see what I'm seeing? Okay, see what you see. Where to look for them? Okay, tell me. I'm sincerely asking. Yes, but how do I find myself?
When you're trying, when the perceiver is perceiving, who is perceiving the perceiver? That is the question. And there is genuine looking. There is nothing. So I am nothing because there is nothing, and that is what we know as an experience of whatever we hardly hear that that is the same. So how can nothing be the Self? It's not questioned. That place is just beyond that question. But is it like a place? No. What you asked me to accept? You know, way you're using 'accept this and don't question.' For what is that like? What is the... what is the final conclusion?
So the thing is, maybe they should be genuinely looking because after that this will stop. Okay, but tell me. Okay, I'm trying to look. What am I expected to find?
Can you trust it? Just look and see genuinely. There will be nothing. We are making a big joke. So, out of character change is that you're making a big joke out of it, but the fact is that really, what is the basis of this self-knowledge? What is the self-knowledge that we speak of, this Atma Gyan? Just by giving it fancy terms like self-knowledge, Atma Gyan, does it make it so? So when we are looking, what is it that we are finding? The basis of all beliefs and disbelief, seeing and not seeing, many pieces of it. So this basis is... would you say it is the most original to us? It is the most natural, simplest, most objects.
But I think that anyone who feels that they are not clear about this, they must not just accept it because, 'Oh, there is an awareness.' Because what will happen is that will just end up visualizing. You just end up taking spiritual experiences to be that. What was really... okay, it is not change is there. But even to see it is not changing, you see, we are defining it as some... like it has an ability to change. No, no, it's not that you're making a mistake, we're just clarifying between each other because many times we can just visualize some. And usually, this is the visual dark empty space which is unchanging. But is that what we're talking about? Even does it have the ability to change? Is there something like change for the Self as well?
Because if there is a role left in this life to play, it is to bring you all out of this attachment to perception and concept to a simple... this simple self-recognition. But I am aware that the mind is very tricky and will show you all kinds of concepts and show you all kinds of perceptions, and you may end up leaving taking any of that to be the Self. But don't settle for that. Don't settle for that. So like, I'm happy to hear the term 'spiritual sightseeing.' It is not about gathering up some good feelings or getting rid of bad feelings. All that is the byproduct. But really, what is our discovery? What is our discovery? We can keep using the term pristine discovery and most original insight, intuitive insight; all of these are just terms. But if it doesn't translate into a direct insight, then it is going to only build up a new conceptual idea.
So this awareness of existence or awareness of itself, awareness of awareness itself, how it is? Am I just speaking in the air? Am I just speaking on something, something just has like a spiritual placebo? I think spiritual placebo is like, you know, 'There is... you're not just the body-mind, come on, you are awareness.' Is it just like that, a conceptual placebo, or is this becoming our true insight? So until it becomes our true insight, then all this kind of confusion and all this kind of suffering, all troubles that we can experience in life, seems to continue to play out. Our attachment to that which comes and goes is suffering. To discover that which does not come and go, we have to get rid of our traditional looking. Use new eyes. Science leaving all the responsibles chat now. Happy. I'm happy to meet you in this way because most often I meet you.
Is this becoming our truth inside? Until it becomes our truth inside, then all this kind of confusion and all this kind of suffering, all troubles that we can experience in life, seems to continue to play out. Our attachment to that which comes and goes is suffering. To discover that which does not come and go, we have to get rid of our traditional looking. You have to use new eyes. I am happy to meet you in this way because most often I meet you all in this sort of secret mindset. I'm just not reading it, but I'm happy that with this change of pose in your posture, some of you wanted to really fight for the truth. You want to fight for the truth, which is your own direct perception. So, good. Good that at least you came out of that constant seeker mindset. And also, I feel like you had a good taste of how it is so impossible to communicate this in words and how it is impossible to convey or convince the intellect of the reality of the Self.
So, this voice was posing as your own doubting mind, and so in some moments you also let that out because this is what it will play. And see, I have heard this very often in the last five, six years. Something that just says, 'But what if what they are saying is not true? Have a backup plan.' The mind will come and whisper in your ear like this. This is the voice of doubting Thomas, the doubting mind. And of course, now you were aware of the play or something that was going on, so it was easy to recognize. But when it comes and whispers, 'Do you think, you know, is this really true? Have you seen it? Have you really seen the Self?' It will come and whisper like that and say, 'Come, come. What's here? You have a life. You have family responsibilities. You have things to do. Don't fall for this "you are the Self" stuff.' It comes and whispers like that in your ear.
So, all these things, but beyond all of this, it is simpler. Sometimes when we use the term 'beyond,' then you feel like we have to work harder or see harder or think more. You see, our use of intellect. But beyond is also simply that which transcends; it is also simpler. If you're having to work at it, you're missing the point. If you're having to take the effort to get it, you're missing the point. It's just more natural than that. Like all of you were saying, 'But I can't lose it. I have it.' So, if you are it, what kind of effort would it need? What is the effort that is needed for self-recognition? It would need effort if it was a function of remembering and forgetting. So, what is written? It is just the breaking of the habit to delude yourself. Breaking of the habit to sprinkle dust on the mirror, or sprinkle dust in your own eyes.
And what can happen many times is that because we think we have to do more and go through more, we sprinkle more dust. If we just leave ourselves open and empty and step out of these opposites of getting it, not getting it, bondage and freedom—all these don't apply to your reality. As long as you're going to pose as if you are limited and you are trying to get at this, it is like a cat trying to capture the sky or something like that. But if you drop that pose, if you remain empty of this notion of 'me,' then what I'm saying is very, very apparent. Don't ever give it meaning. So really, I'm not trying to convince you of anything because I realize that one conviction is just another set of concepts. Somebody else can come and sound more clear about concepts and you feel, 'Oh, but that is true.' Really, the gift here, if there is one, is that you go beyond conviction, beyond perception, beyond conviction—all of these things.
And to come to that is an ultimate simplicity. Anytime you find ourselves getting into complexity, recognize that is just the play of the intellect, that aspect of the mind which gets into all reasoning and debating. You will not find it through there. All these are just factory concepts. Be vigilant about getting into any sort of spiritual fantasy-fication. Any sort of spiritual fantasy-fication is just specialness posing as spiritual insight. Don't attach yourself to anything that is perceived. Don't give yourselves an issue because none of this play is going to last. None of these stories are going to survive and they're bringing nothing to you but misery. Sometimes it seems very difficult to give up our specialness, our spiritual fantasy. We feel like our whole life had meaning because of this. You gave meaning to our lives, but it is not true. Don't delude yourself with anything extraordinary.
First, let's deal with what your mind calls ordinary Self. Discover how extraordinary that ordinary Self is. Because most times—I will not say every time, but most times—because we are not able to deal with life as it is, we are not able to deal with what is in the manifest as is, we find these sort of fantasies to escape to. If there is a God to be met, it is here now. It wasn't that which was met yesterday and tomorrow. If your meeting is not that, then there is no God. If what you are perceiving is distinct from the perceiver, you see, then there is no one God, one truth. If you have to escape to your imagination to find God, then there is no God. And every time you take yourself to just be an object of perception or a set of concepts, realize that no matter how hard you try, that can never be true. You can never become just a set of perceptions or never be defined by any concept.
Your self-discovery is the simplicity, simpler than you can see. This is the true meaning of the diamond in your pocket. It's like you don't have to make any effort to find it; it's already there. So, may this inside intuitive discovery of yourself bring you beyond conviction, beyond disease. The truth is very simple, even conceptually. Like even conceptually, when you take yourself to be anything that has definition, you see, it is not the truth. If you make a reference to 'I' in any way, even if it is the highest, it is not the truth. You cannot represent yourself in any perception and you cannot represent yourself in the absence of perceptions because even that representation will just be this often-depicted dark empty space. Like when we say the opposite of form is formless, but even our notion of formless is a definition. It is the absence of form, but it is not beyond form and formless. In our mental representation, the truth is beyond form and formless. Our intellect, our Antahkarana, you see, what is beyond form and formless? Nirguna Brahman. But you are that.
I'm going to read some comments. One says, 'Yeah, but Father, you are the worst of the worst seeker guys. Have you considered an acting career?' It's my backup option. If such a thing doesn't work, then my daughter and I will do stand-up comedy. So once you've seen the Father, you all have to have a job. It's just in case this one of this is food.
Based on these members of the body, so beloved, come to me beyond. Thanks for all the locations. It just ceases. It doesn't really get upset or doesn't mind repeating it anyway. Yeah, I see here between this expression, of course, some mature things happened because as this was happening, I was recalling that we've had something like this in satsang actually. And I feel like I was indulging a bit of that sort of intellectualized conscience-type mentality for some time now. Something this is becoming to mind. It can be stopped. Really, one is open to looking. It's not going to go any better. Open the looking. The closeness comes from our convictions. Our conviction that 'I already know something, I already found something,' you see. And mostly when we are in that kind of mindset, then we are just coming to confirm. And if something doesn't seem confirming, then we are not happy. This is so confusing. This kind of intellectual play goes on.
If you are going to limit yourself to just valuing the set of perceptions, then I will never fully endorse that. Yeah, that was it. To go beyond the perceiver, we go beyond the thinker. Yeah, unique plot lines in the absence. He makes somebody make a joke. So you live in love in my room. I thought you were really serious. One day you're just joking throughout the journey too. And one hour she was just joking. She says, 'Do we really sound like that?' Well, yeah, it was on steroids. Yeah, but all this game so bad I've heard over the years. Are we just here to get a snack, a spiritual placebo, a conceptual placebo? But he, more than anyone, will relate to that. It has no real potency, but it seems to still... and when we come to satsang initially, we feel like many can come for some sort of intellectual understanding. And you feel like with that true understanding, then I will be free. But the true understanding is not intellectual or conceptual. It is impossible to truly be able to conceptualize the Self.
And the fact is that if it was something that limited that it was conceptualized, it will not be so clear. It will be just another side like everything else. You can give it a shape, you can give it a size. But the Self is beyond these definitions. But also the main attempt, if there was an attempt in this game, was to just prod the poke, to really promote all of us to see whether we are just relying on some sort of conceptual spirituality. You're just relying on some past experience or something like that. But could you look at this just fresh from what is? Because if what you're being fed here is something like you gathering some very nice, clean, good concepts, but then you're trying to convince yourself about them, and then somewhere else you hear something else and you gather those—you see, then it's really not satsang. Satsang is more like one of these feel-good self-help sections or something.
The title says 'In the Coming Maze.' Here, Guru, please. If you understand, you can see that if you are just like mentally convinced from the words of satsang, when this kind of attack comes, then it is shaken. I maintain spirituality does get shaken up. So you have to rely on something deeper than that. And that is not taking all the power because it's deeper than perception. And that ditch example: the first level of knowing is just conceptual, 'I have credible sources.' The next level, 'Oh, and now I'm really clear that there is no ditch.' But beyond even perceptual conviction, because even a perception feels as many times these optical illusions and McGurk effect, mirage. So beyond even perceptual conviction, that is so natural, so clear. Like, have you all seen this? In some cities, they will just paint some things on the roads and they just look so real, like some water or a pothole or something like that. And it's also painted so well, it looks like it's real. So even our perception ultimately is not completely reliable. But this self-knowledge, this realization, recognition, is unshakable beyond belief, beyond perception.
Thank you for participating. But I have to see, as the head of this family, as the first anomaly, I felt a lot of joy also seeing so much. You just stand up for it and say, 'But like that, have you looked? Are you looking at it?' Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba Ki Jai. Robert Adams Ki Jai. She says what he says, that a game he used to play with the students was 'Stump the Guru.' I would like to see if they're all here. Is the recording on? Transcript of Robert Adams, you...