Who is Here? - 29th October 2021

No. No, I can't. I tried and tried and tried. I inquired, I looked within. Where could it be? It is ridiculous, but there's still this—I don't know, some would say it is energetic. I remember still when the 'me' totally disappeared at once, and not slowly, slowly like now, that it was felt like this contraction disappeared that I never even knew I had.

Forget about that, yeah? Because just today I was saying on Instagram that we miss fresh God, which is here and complete and fully, fully present as our presence itself, in the idea of some past spiritual experience or some idea of how it must be. So now, what kind of a God would it be, or what kind of a Self would it be, if it was incomplete now or not present here completely? It would not be worth our time. All of us gathered here, it would not be worth our time. So instead of having a conceptual benchmark and saying that this is when I was truly free and now there is something missing, can we really look at what is here now? Even energetically, is it 'me' energetically?

No. No, it's—yeah, I get it.

Very good. So now, whose being is this?

It's nobody's being. It is being itself.

And that being is what we call consciousness or God.

Yeah. Yeah.

What is incomplete about it?

Nothing.

And where would you have to be to judge that? Say that again, please. Where would you have to be to judge that, whether it's completeness or incompleteness?

But there is no need to judge that.

Yes, exactly. That's the crazy part.

And it is really feeling like living—you know, I can get up from the sofa and walk to the kitchen and it's felt like living in these two worlds, like seeing everything as it really is, and at the same time there's these ideas.

Anytime there is two, it is the intellect. So don't refer to the place for a moment where you can determine one or two or three or zero. Don't go to that place. Tell me what is happening in the rest of you.

What is happening in the rest of me?

Yes. There is an aspect of you which can determine that this is one, this is zero, this is two, this is many, or this is none—all of these variations. So don't refer to that aspect, and what is happening for the rest of you?

But that is just what is. I cannot explain that.

Yes, yes, because to try to explain, you would have to go back to that aspect. So how is it without referring to that aspect? Any trouble?

No. But please help that this stops going back to that.

Even that, even that is in that aspect. I know that aspect is designed to do this. Consciousness has designed it as part of the Leela in a way that there's an aspect of itself which it has determined the job is to convince consciousness itself that it is limited, you see? So that aspect will keep doing that job, and within that, it will keep saying, 'Please stop this, make this stop please, I can't take it anymore,' which is the cry of the spiritual seeker. But the spiritual seeker is still referring to the same guy and saying, 'Okay, now this one is now asking for itself to stop,' which itself is getting energized every time we listen to it, you see what I'm saying? Like Bhagwan said, it is like the thief dressed up like the policeman pretending to catch the thief.

Yeah, I get that.

Who is listening to it?

Yes, that's a good question.

Okay, I actually mean that question: who is listening to it? Who is here? It is just consciousness. And that's why I said it is consciousness itself which has designed this part of itself to play in the delusion, and then this is also designed—this satsang aspect, which is the heart voice or the voice of the intuition, to pull it back home from that. So in a way, it is consciousness speaking with consciousness where it is reminding itself: don't go to that limiting aspect of yourself; come to the aspect where all these determinations—whether it's one, two, what is happening—all of these don't have any power or attraction over us.

Yeah. It's like, you know, the finances—I still know it's in the play, it is the play, but they're getting very strong now on the bank account. There's for one more rent, and I've applied for so many jobs, and I know that there's no me inside here that can do that. It is all—

Yeah, but you know, grace was so beautiful over the last ten years of sharing satsang. I would have read these reports so many times, and yet the ending of those reports usually is that somehow with some grace, something just worked out or showed up. It's God's problem and God's—something is really serious or something like that, we can always be in touch, we can always see. And then I do see it; it's just yet another distraction and one solution to the distraction, you see? Now both are in front of you. Both are in front of you as consciousness. Embrace your heart, embrace your truth, and then the distraction can seem to have some gravitation, can seem to exert a pull on you, but it will not last in your embrace of love to your own being.

But right now there is me saying, 'I wish I could believe that, that it would not last.'

Where is that? Where is that happening? It's still happening in the mind, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, it just shows up.

Yes. You know, everything has been through such a deconstruction that I wouldn't even know what we talk about when we talk about mind or intellect. It's just thoughts, ideas showing up. Everything is just a thought, and then it shows up—the fear, 'Oh, can I go to the bank and say I don't know what?' But this identification as 'I', as this one who goes to the bank, is only that aspect of your being. It is not your reality.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah. Otherwise, this body can move anywhere, but you are not moving. It is images on your screen. It is images on your being which could change, but you remain unchanged. And I know that you see this already. So these reminders are just meant to put you into looking in the right way instead of referring to yourself as this lump of food who walks around from here to there and trying to find spiritual solutions for that one for whom spirituality means nothing. What would spirituality mean for food? Nothing. You don't try to apply it to the one that walks to the bank. You apply it and see that you are that which witnesses the apparent walking to the bank or not.

Yes. Thank you, Ananta, for reminding.

Very welcome. Very welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Very okay, let's go to—I see him next.

Hello, Guruji. I, even before satsang, I thought, 'I need your help please.' I thought I could write you a letter, but I haven't written it yet.

This is good enough.

If I can take a little bit of time.

As much time as you require.

I noticed in these days the mind is going crazy, quite crazy. Like thoughts like, 'I am so confused,' 'I like this,' and 'I feel...' I don't believe in them, but it's like they're just still coming, still coming, still coming. And maybe I try somehow to stop them, and when there are no thoughts, then okay, always good. But then when they come, then I start suffering somehow. I don't know if I'm expressing really what I want to say.

It's okay. We can start here and then we can always add to the conversation. And whatever you feel like resonates the most, we can always start the discussion and see how grace takes it. So the fact that a lot of thoughts are coming and they're presuming some state of spiritual confusion or the lack of truth or the lack of stability or clarity—all of that. It's like, okay, if there is a potato factory in your neighborhood and around you there's a conveyor belt where all these potatoes are there, they just come, they keep coming, potatoes and potatoes. What does it mean for you? Nothing. How are the potatoes different from thoughts? I must confess there is no difference. Just objects of perception, isn't it?

Yes.

Yeah. What is coming with these objects of perception is like the potatoes, but they have a message—not even hidden, like an apparent message painted on them. And that message you feel like could be like a fortune cookie predicting some future or giving you some life advice or something like that. So now these are fortune cookie potatoes which are coming to you all the time, you see? And it feels like you have to see what they're saying and you have to get a sense of belief in them saying, 'Oh, they're really talking about me,' because it seems so true: 'I am confused,' you see? 'I am really confused, I am really lost.' But then when you inquire—and I'm sure you inquire—what do you find? Who is the 'I' that is confused?

It's not real. Even when I simply—like, I usually don't inquire into them because I see them, they're like nothing. Then a state comes and then it goes, and it's like it's crazy. Like even when it's here, it's energetically felt like sensations come with it, like usually fear, discomfort, whatever. But it goes.

Yes, yes. So that doesn't sound like much trouble if when you inquire you see that there is nobody who's suffering and the thoughts don't have as much meaning anymore, then that is pretty good.

Yes, but it felt like I'm still suffering them. But I don't know if I'm speaking—if I'm making something up now.

It's not a test of anything. Just relax. It's completely fine. So just one tip I have, and for all of you, and I used to say it very often earlier—I don't recall saying it much now. If you go digging under the ground, how many tomatoes will you find? Probably none. And if you go climbing a tree, how many potatoes will you find? No potatoes. So if you go to the mind, the mind is the seller of these limiting ideas, the seller of confusion, the seller of suffering, you see? So if you don't go to the mind, you're naturally in what we call the heart. So in the heart you have no trouble. But if you want to be able to go to the mind and still not suffer, then that is an acrobatic feat which you don't want to try and attempt, you see? Because there's really no need to do that. The mind will continue to be the machine which is designed to sell you your limited idea of yourself, and don't expect that to change. So let its narrative happen. Take it like a storybook which is there, but it's like an audiobook—maybe that's a good metaphor. So it's like an audiobook which just runs all the time, but it's up to you to get involved in this narrative or not. The audio will not force its narrative on you because you are consciousness, you are God, the greatest being in this universe. The whole universe shines in your light. So you cannot be forced by this tiny, measly audiobook to follow its narrative. But if you feel like, if you want to...

Take it like a storybook which is there, but it's like an audiobook. Maybe that's a good metaphor. So it's like an audiobook which just runs all the time, but it's up to you to get involved in this narrative or not. The audio will not force its narrative on you because you are consciousness. You are God, the greatest being in this universe. The whole universe shines in your light, so you cannot be forced by this tiny, measly audiobook to follow its narrative. But if you feel like—if you want to, in a way, although 'want' may not be the best word—if consciousness wants to play in this way, then it is free to. Is the reminder that consciousness is built into itself like the alarm clock saying that you will get suffering if you go to the peddler of suffering?

So, let's look again and say, okay, suppose the mind is constantly giving you all these ideas about your suffering in some way. What does it mean to your reality? I don't know. So you are very confused right now. Suppose the mind is saying, 'I am so confused' or 'You are so confused right now.' Who does that apply to? The thought? The personal identity somehow? Yes, yes. And what is the implication of the personal identity for your beingness, or for that which is aware even of beingness? How heavy can a personal identity be for being? I don't know. Can you check if it has any weight at all? Just check for yourself if it has any weight at all right now.

There is nothing. Yes, this is maybe the question. This is it, maybe. Yeah, it is.

Can you define it? Can you put it in words? What is the question?

What you asked me, like, if the flow of thoughts is like somehow... if the belief is not given, if it's still somehow disturbing me. I feel that's what you asked me, if it's a problem for me when this is happening.

Even if the thoughts were to be identified with, can you locate the 'me' which really is there? Is there such a 'me' or is the 'me' just part of a fiction that we end up believing?

Yeah, it's part of the fiction. Because if the thought said, 'I am stuck in Timbuktu and I have no way to get out of this and my life is a big mess,' you see, 'I need to get myself back home somehow,' and you ended up believing that, consciousness has the ability to make it seem true as a belief, you see. But consciousness cannot ever limit itself really into just the character which is stuck in any way, you see. To see that is very important. So even if you were deeply identified, in your reality nothing has changed. So the problem is not as severe as you may believe it to be.

Yeah, like in A Course in Miracles it says, 'Nothing real can be threatened and nothing unreal has ever existed.' That's a great reassurance. Nothing real can be threatened even with our deepest vasanas, our highest or lowest identification. Then at that level of understanding, we can call this a Leela, which is a play of consciousness, because nothing real can get threatened in a play.

If I can say, the belief is not given. I may be somehow... I was expecting the play to stop.

Yes, you know the song we just played? It translates as saying that this whole game is two days, you see, and then after two days this game is over. So it's a short, short play. All of it is going to finish soon. Don't worry so much about it. It implies: take it easy. It's all about you; it's all going to go soon. So what is it that you want to stop?

Nothing. Right now, nothing. Yes, yes. And if I can say one thing, I remember telling you this already, but you said if you go to the mind... but here, if I can confess, it's like the mind comes to me. It's like I don't choose. I feel I don't choose to go there.

This is very good. This is very good. Okay, so now we're getting to the crux of it. How does the mind come to you? In its appearance, it comes to you, isn't it? Yes, just like you're sitting looking at your window and the sun rises; that way it comes to you. Okay, so that aspect has to do with attention, you see. You do not force your attention to the mind, but it appears in your attention; it appears in your perceptions. Agreed? Now there's one more step to log in, isn't there?

Yes. Okay. And how does that happen? Somehow the belief is given.

The belief is given, yes. Yeah, so this belief... if I said to you there are seventeen oranges in your room at this time, and suppose it is not coming from Guruji, you know, so suppose there's a regular friend who's telling you there's seventeen oranges in your room, you see, will you say, 'Oh, but belief just gets given'? No, I don't believe you. If I say to you that there are three unicorns waiting to enter your house? No. So it's not something that is just given. Well, those attachments, those desires, those notions which seem true to us and we've nurtured with our belief in the past, when thoughts about them come, you see, then the gravitational pull of those beliefs can seem higher. And yet it is consciousness itself which gives it the belief, you see. So for consciousness to remain open is a possibility, to remain empty is a possibility, or to believe in that notion is a possibility.

When Papaji said, 'Keep quiet,' he's talking about this quiet. He's saying let it all come and go, you be quiet. And Guruji says, 'Don't identify,' you see, this is what he's saying. And when I say, 'Don't believe your next thought,' that's what we're saying. So if none of this was possible for you as consciousness, the masters couldn't have been that stupid to keep giving that advice, isn't it? Like, 'Don't believe your next thought,' but 'little old me, I can't not believe it or behave it.' This is the response of the mind. And if you were the mind or if you were a person, this would be true. But you are not. For this instruction, you have to see or you have to meet yourself as consciousness, you see.

For consciousness, actually both attention and belief can be controlled, but attention still seems a bit more difficult to try and control. The mind is, you know, very, very proactive when it comes to fiddling with attention. But when it comes to belief, you see... just to use the arrangement once more: if I said to you, 'Don't bring your attention to an orange right now' or 'Don't think of an orange right now,' you mastered yourself through some great yogic practice or something, so it's possible for consciousness. But if I say, 'Don't believe you're an orange,' it's impossible to believe myself into an orange. How different is an orange from a man? Is it? How is it so much less ludicrous or less insane to take ourselves to be this clump of food than to take ourselves to be an orange? I don't know. I don't know.

I feel like let's take that a bit deeper now. So, orange? Yes, it's too far out. So let's hit closer to home, you see. So what about a 'good person'? Believe that you're a good person.

No, no, no. I believe that... you're a spiritual seeker who's had true insights. It can come, it can come. The thought can come and it's not believed somehow.

Yes. Then, you are a spiritual seeker who is confused?

No. At least now, no. I don't.

Yes, good enough. Now it's good. So this is actually... it is as absurd to take yourself to be an orange as to be a bundle of flesh and blood. And the idea that belief is something that just happens to you is when you already put yourself in the position of a character in the story and not the position of consciousness.

Okay. If I can say, I love this. Would you share it? Because I've checked this in one satsang before. Like when you said, 'Let it all come, let's see what gets you.' And yes, I feel nothing. Nothing, when I check. Like nothing can get me in this way. It just... yeah.

Yes. And the 'me' that cannot be gotten to, who is that one?

It's me. It's... I would say the true me, somehow. I don't...

So consciousness itself cannot be forced into any set boundary. All there is is consciousness. There is nobody else there. And that non-phenomenal aspect of the Self which we call pure awareness itself is aware of all of this play of being, play of its manifest aspect, without being touched in any way whatsoever. So we've seen that. Now we're just exploring ourselves as this beingness and we're seeing that as this manifest aspect of ourselves plays out, it cannot be forced into any limitation. And all such limitation is only after it gives its assent, gives its belief to a notion which it itself presents to itself.

When you say now when we've seen it's untouched, I hope I'm not being arrogant when I speak like this. Even can you say like... it's not like I'm confused about it, but yeah, I hope it's somehow true here. I don't know.

Yes, it's good. In fact, I don't mind when you speak from your highest insight, you see. It's music to my ears. Very, very good. I never feel like it's... and if it does at times feel like it's arrogant, I'll tell you, so you don't have to worry about tracking that.

Thank you. Thank you. If I can expose one more thing. Like when... usually it is like when there are no thoughts, somehow it can be that there are strong sensations. Because just somehow, just wanna say this, sometimes it can feel like very, very strong.

Yes, yeah. It's natural as our attention is not getting diffused because of thoughts. Otherwise, in the usual human condition, a lot of our attention is with thoughts and then we are giving some attention to that which we are experiencing. As that attention becomes more and more available, then the sensory vibration of this existent realm may seem to get amplified and everything may seem to get amped up a bit. Of course, as you're creating the space within your being, there may be other sensational movements and things, energies aligning themselves in certain ways. So it's all grace. It's all grace. We don't ever have to be concerned about that.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for... it's thank you that this is even possible. Thank you so much.

Thank you. You're always welcome. Thank you. All my love. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Eka.

Hello, my dear. Really, I just wanted to say hi. Yeah.

Are you in Australia already?

Yeah, yeah, I'm in Australia. Yeah. Got no questions, nothing to report. Just wanted to say love you so, so, so much.

I saw something from you the other day. Maybe you were recording some of your exhibition and something, I don't remember, but I sent you all my love.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, all is very well. I'm hoping as things keep opening up like this, you'll find your way to Bangalore somehow.

Oh, I'd love to. Yeah, yeah. Inshallah. But yeah, I know, I know you're always with me always. Yeah, choicelessly.

Yeah, I feel like I don't even really miss you anymore in that way. I mean, of course I still miss like to be in your physical presence and, you know, your unique beautiful quirky fun-loving expression, but yeah, I just... yeah.

Yeah, same, same, right? You're always right here as well. Always. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, that's... yeah, just it's just feeling clear and just, yeah, so much joy, so much peace is there. So much gratitude, so much gratitude.

Such a joy, such a joy. Yeah.

And I just just wanted to say hi. Just want to say hi. Yeah.

Me too. Yeah.

I just realized like I can put my hand up and just say hi even though I have nothing in particular to share. I just want to just... yeah, you know already, but I just want to say again how much I love you and I'm so grateful for you and I'm very happy.

Lovely. Thank you very much.

I just would like to ask you about something about awareness, but I don't... yeah, yeah, yeah. So I try to explain what I mean. So I understand then for the awareness it doesn't make a difference between the whole universe or just a piece of grass or even the dreaming state and the waking state; it's just the same object of the awareness. But now the last, I don't know, few weeks, always a question coming back to me then: what if what I...

And I'm very happy, yeah. Lovely, thank you very much. I just would like to ask you about something about awareness, but I don't... yeah, so I try to explain what I mean. So, I understand then for the awareness, it doesn't make a difference between the whole universe or just a piece of grass or even the dreaming state and the waking state; it is just the same object of the awareness. But now, the last few weeks, always a question is coming back to me: what if there is no any object? What is the awareness without the object? Because if awareness is always awareness and is just always here, then it must be here without the object as well. But me as... so, I don't know how to ask this question. For example, in the deep sleep, there is no any object and I don't know if there is awareness or not. Because if awareness always has to be here and is not perishable, and if I am awareness, this pause at that point...

So, you don't know if there is awareness in deep sleep?

Yeah, but you know that there is deep sleep. I can't... I am not sure.

You don't know very deeply?

No, it's just something I thought. I... yeah, I don't know because I only know if I am dreaming because I have a memory of the dream, but I don't know if there is deep sleep really.

I don't know what it would feel like if there was no gap between these states. Then it would feel like you're a time traveler or something. You'll feel like you're Doctor Who without the machine, without the TARDIS. So, what would happen if you did not experience deep sleep? It would just feel like you're just traveling between worlds, traveling between universes, and you can't tell the difference between any state. That, oh, now this is... so let's take a simpler example. What time did you wake up today?

Ten o'clock in the morning.

At ten o'clock, yeah.

I was waking up a lot of times actually at the night. Every two hours I wake up, and I'm not judging the time at all, don't worry. Ten o'clock.

And then how do you know that you woke up then?

Because I wasn't dreaming anymore. I seen the room and I knew this is a waking state because I am here in the bed and it is just always like this every morning and I see the time. Yeah, it wasn't like this before when I went to sleep.

So, is this how... is it not that you have been awake and just the scenery changed? No, because if there's no gap between states, then what is only happening is that just the imagery is changing. As if you're a time traveler without having to press any button, suddenly you see at ten o'clock at night or eleven o'clock at night or something, just the world changes. Then you keep going, then you go to another world, then you go to another world, and then you show up in this world. You see, it's just continuing. Is that your experience?

Yes, actually yes, this is what I experience.

Then it's fine. Then it's fine. There is no gap.

I go to sleep and there is dreams.

If this is your experience, how come you want to know about a state which you never have, which is deep sleep?

Because everybody is talking about these people. Yeah, no, I don't know about the deep sleep. I don't know, maybe there is not even deep sleep, I don't know.

It's fine. If you don't experience it, it's okay.

It's like a fairy tale. Yes, but still the question is here: then what awareness is doing without the object? Then I mean, if there is no object, there is no awareness, because awareness is just about something to be aware. But when you ask 'Are you aware?', you don't ask 'Are you aware of something?'. You just ask 'Are you aware?'. And I never know the answer because I don't know if there is awareness without anything to be aware of.

And so when you do find that awareness is there, what is it doing with the object?

Excuse me?

What is it with the object right now, that this awareness... yeah, if there is awareness of sight or awareness of sound or awareness of touch, what is it doing with the sight or sound or touch?

What is it? Nothing. No, nothing at all.

So even with the object, it is not doing anything. If the objective universe was not there, it is still not be doing anything, because even when it is there, it's not doing anything.

I know why this question is very important for me, because this must be approved and awareness is always here. And even if this body die and everything just disappear, if I am the awareness, I will be forever here. And this is why is always coming this: then how do you know is there awareness? Is always here if you cannot be sure?

Yeah, but the 'I' that wants to be forever here will not be forever here. So let that one die. But you are forever here. Who is the one that wants to be forever here?

Yeah, it is just a thought really. Yeah, it is just some fear. I mean, yes, some emotional belief.

Who is it that could continue to be here? That after the death of the body, it should be here?

Actually, when my mom died, I felt her so much here without the body. I felt so much love from her, really.

Yeah, there are some who never want to be here after they die. They want this to be the last life, transmigration. And some who never want to leave here.

Yeah, see, I... no, I don't want to be here as Aniko anymore, no.

Yes, then what do you want to be here as?

I see you. So if... what is the difference between Aniko and you, and the 'you' that you said? Oh, much difference. Is all the word, everything. I don't know, I don't know. I don't even know what is the difference. This is how much this difference is.

You still want to be here. Yeah, so that 'you' you're talking about—and I'm of course accepting that with full love—but that 'you' is your own Self. This is your own Self. So that Self, it is independent of words, but the words are dependent on it. Now, you don't have to verify any of this. All this will just become insight to you, which is natural in your heart, you see. And don't let your mind convince you that till you can say the same thing—'It is these worlds that appear for you, not you appearing in the world'—still then you are not free or you are not... like, forget all that, you see. You find out who you are. Find out who you are. Who are you right now? Is there anything I have to understand or with the mind?

Who are you right now? I don't know.

Who is the 'I' that doesn't know? You know that one?

No, I don't know. I don't know actually. I don't know, I don't know. I really don't know.

Okay, so when you say 'I really don't know,' you're telling the truth, no?

Yes.

In that statement, there is an 'I'. Is that one? So you must be basing it on someone or something or some no-thing to be able to say 'I don't know.' So the 'don't know' part I understood, which is the 'I' part. Who is the 'I' who doesn't know?

There is no 'I' who knows that. He's just alone. No one knows that there is no 'I'.

What is it? What does all this mean to you?

I don't... I'm not... I don't exist.

You don't exist? Without existence, how you speak these words? That is not me.

Who is aware of this? Not you. Is Elena sitting next to you telling you? I mean, at least on the Zoom screen, she's telling me that you don't exist. Actually, I don't know what is this, but definitely not me.

Who is aware of the sound of this voice?

The same one.

Which one is that?

The same who is aware of everything else.

Yes. And what is that one's relationship with you?

Nothing, because I do not exist.

Okay, that one exists?

Yes, only that one exists. Nothing else.

Now, what if that one was you?

No, it doesn't... no, no, no, no. Because if I am here, this one is... if this one is here, I am not here. If this one is here, then you are not here. Yes, or this one or me, not the two together.

Yes, yes. So when only this one is here, you come to know about it, that this one was here? You don't need to know anything when this one is here because...

Okay, so then how do you know that when this one is here, you are not here? Because you are not there to conclude that. I mean, what do you mean by 'you'?

This is so difficult, this question, Ananta.

It's the easiest if you don't try to use your mind, but it's the most difficult for the mind. So, mean when you say 'when I am not here,' which is the 'I' who can or cannot be here?

This 'I'. What 'I'?

But there is a kind of picture of Aniko, of me, who had some past and history and a lot of thought and sensations believed in, and all these things is not really exist.

Okay, so let's call this one 'little I' for conversation. Let's call this one 'little I' or 'limited I'. So limited I is not there. Who is not there?

Nobody is... is not having any... I cannot say a name of or anything.

Yes, yes. But you are still there to be aware that there's nobody there?

Yes.

How different are you from that nobody?

Sorry? No, it's fine. I love it.

So, okay. Can you explain? The little I is not there?

Yes.

There is a nobody which is aware that little I is not there?

Yes, nobody.

Yeah. How is it communicating with you?

It's not communicate because I am not... I am not... is not communicate to the one who is not. It's just the same. It's just a... it's just not even a part. Is that nobody speaking or this is you speaking?

Every time that nobody is speaking. Even if I think I am speaking, it is still the nobody.

Okay, so just to keep it in the same construct, let's call that nobody 'big I' or the Self. Okay? Okay. Now tell us what's happening.

Okay, Self is everything. And Self is everything, really. But I don't know... yeah, 'I' is little I or... yeah, it was just a little I. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. There is still the little I and there is the Self, but the Self is the little I, but the little I is not the Self.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Completely. Yeah. And then... yeah, oh yeah, yeah. The Self is always just the Self and doesn't even need any like confirmation because it's just all this. Yes, itself. Yes. So, I'm not sure now about the question.

Really good. You see, this is it. Just a little change in language, because it is language in the intellect which confuses so much. Without that, it's... and with some clarification, that's fine. I can't even tell you have a good sleep. I have three dreams. An entity... just a bit of fear came up for nobody or for the poor...

It's actually this kind of feeling of sorrow for my mommy.

Yeah, yeah, I see that one. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, let's go to Helena. Hello.

Okay, thank you. I just put up my hand because I felt that I otherwise would move away from the subject. Can you hear me? You felt... well, it was not so clear, my team. Ah, okay. Otherwise, I would move away with my attention and not bring my attention here, although I see that it is a mind's display to... I see there is for a long time some victim identity. And although I know it's play, it's...

Can we look at this for a moment before we go to the next topic? So, the victim identity only means that there are thoughts which I believe about myself about being wronged in some way, about being victimized in some way, that wrong things have been done to me, isn't it? Isn't that the victim identity?

Yes.

What is the most attractive victim thought? I have to go to the mind to serve that one. I'm here, don't worry.

I think the one that comes up now is that I have to do everything by my own.

To do everything by your own, yeah. And how is that a victim thought?

I guess because I would like to have some support, especially with the things doing that that I don't like to do. It cost me energy.

I see, I understand. So this 'I' who's left all alone has to support herself is which one? You played again. 'I' which has been left all alone in life in some way and has to support herself through everything is which one?

Well, I know this is... but it doesn't feel like that.

Okay, so let's... so when you say you know, it's because you've heard it in satsang. It's a spiritual concept to feel like that because... no, it's because I recall in memory that I know that there is that... that there are... that there is a place that you...

Understand. So, this 'I' who's left all alone, has to support herself—is which one? You played again. 'I' which has been left all alone in life in some way and has to support herself through everything is which one?

Well, I know this is, but it doesn't feel like that.

Okay, so let's... so when you say you know, it's because you've heard it in satsang? It's a spiritual concept to feel like that because...

No, it's because I recall in memory that I know that there is that... that there are... that there is a place from which this is seen. But on the moment, I cannot find this place. I know that's rubbish, but it's fine.

A tip I have for you is that to rely on the truth from memory is as bad as relying on it from conceptual knowledge. If it is true, then it must be here now. There is no point having to refer to some images from the past which we call a memory, or some conceptual knowledge which says, 'No, no, I know,' you see? So, let's leave both of those aside and let's look fresh now. Who is this 'I' who has been left all alone?

It feels like me.

Okay, let's look into that. When you say it feels like me, what is the feeling that is there? Is there a tangible feeling that you can notice, like a contraction, or what is it?

I don't know. I don't understand the question, I think.

Okay, okay. So, you said it feels like a 'me' and I was asking if that feeling is a tangible contraction, like felt in the chest or something, or is it just a thought which is saying it feels like me?

It feels like a narrow way of looking. I cannot locate it. It's just the way how I look at the world feels like narrow.

Narrow. Right now, you see, right now, don't insert anything from past or future. Right now, where is it? Where is the one that has been left all alone? Is it the body which has been left all alone?

No.

Is it a feeling that has been left all alone?

I don't know. It feels like feeling.

Okay. Now, it's important to ask: who witnesses that feeling? Can it be alone altogether? That's where I'm lost.

I don't know.

Let's look. That which witnesses this feeling of separation or aloneness—is that separate or one, or neither?

Not yet.

Very good, very good. You don't have to rush into that. You're going very well. So, my advice would be, if this identity has been persistent, which means it keeps pulling you over and over again and it's been there for many months or years or even longer, then use this inquiry. I've given you the tools and use it as much time as you get. Whenever you find yourself with some time, use it till you find when the thought comes—the same thought which says 'I have to do everything by myself,' you see—it doesn't... till the point that it doesn't become laughable, till then you do this inquiry. And it will become laughable in the inquiry, which is so potent. And you realize what you really are is so far removed from what idea this concept is selling, that when the seller comes back with this idea at some point, you will only laugh. Thank you very much. Thank you.

So, I want to tell everyone this: that although usually I'm just saying like this is gone, like this is gone—which is true actually, it's all gone right now—many times with these persistent identities, it can feel like we need to just pull them into our inquiry and just don't worry about them going away at all. Just keep looking. Who is the 'I' that is aware of it? Who is the 'I' that is suffering? The right questions will show up in your inquiry from your heart, and in looking at them this way, you will find that these notions, these concepts, will lose their sting, will lose their poison, and after a point, they will just become light and laughable. So, this is very helpful for these long-persisting notions and ideas. Thank you very much. Okay, let's go to Edward. He changes the spelling of his name. Hi.

Hello, hello. I just wanted... so one contemplation was coming up recently and I thought to do it maybe together just in case. So, you know like sometimes I feel like with this, let's say the feeling... the feeling is the same when I say, for example, 'I wish it was more like this and not like that.' And also, whatever identity is behind this or whatever, because there is the same sense of 'I' who is saying this and who would say, 'Oh yes, I cannot find myself. Oh yes, I'm beyond my thoughts and feelings,' you know? And it seems that whenever I say one or another, I feel it's coming from the same 'I'.

Yes. Okay.

Yeah, it just feels a bit funny because it seems like, oh, but if that 'I' which is like a supreme 'I' wouldn't be saying those things, 'Oh, I really prefer this, I'm not like that, I really don't like him,' or some stuff like that. Maybe not so much, but yeah.

Yes. So, everything is coming from the one source. That's right. And yet in the worldly play, we have identified that there's an aspect of this being which is talking about how we are so limited, how we are the body-mind, and we have a duration between birth and death and all of these things. And there's another aspect which is the intuitive aspect which is pointing to the true nature of the Self, you see? So, although both are made up of the Self itself, as in the play as we refer to the limited aspect, then we play with the game of suffering, with the game of taking ourselves to be so small and stuck between birth and death and all its problems in the middle. And when we don't refer to ourselves in that way, we refer to ourselves from the heart or intuitively, then all this pain or suffering of human existence, it seems to be much lighter, you see? So, of course everything is... the source of all things is the Self. But the Self playing in the manifest world then chooses to suffer when it plays with its limited mind, and chooses to let go of suffering and just is able to live freely without mental slavery then it doesn't refer to the mind. Is that what you are asking in some way?

Yes, it's just what it comes down to. It feels like... and in either way, nothing in reality is changing, you see? That's why I said nothing real can be threatened. So even if you play fully identified and we keep playing this game of identification over and over again, it doesn't matter in reality. But somehow, in the design of the play, there's also this yearning for letting go of the play of suffering and coming to rest in some sort of beingness or some reality. Maybe this is what it comes to know.

But I don't seem to have... don't see the difference between my, let's say, limited self and universal self.

Yes, yes, yes. So, the limited self you cannot see anyway. It is just like a fictional idea that if you heard a story about yourself and you believed it, then there's no actual entity like that which is created, but it seems real because you put your belief into it. Your real Self is that which is aware, and you cannot see it perceived, but you are aware of it. So, when I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' what do you see to confirm? You don't see anything phenomenal, and yet you are able to confirm. So, the limited self cannot be seen because it is not there in the manifest also, and the true Self cannot be seen because it is beyond perception.

Okay. And then how to know when I'm speaking from which place?

Don't worry about speaking. If you're suffering, you're buying the wrong idea about yourself. Otherwise, chill out, be happy, don't worry.

Okay, okay, okay. Also, just you know, sometimes maybe what comes is, well, I shouldn't maybe be having strong opinions. Yeah, like I should be fine with everything a little bit.

Are you suffering from them?

Well, no, but making others suffer. But well, actually maybe yeah, maybe because it feels like, as I say, I don't... it seems like it's coming from the same source. The opinion would come from the same source as it would come from, 'Oh, this is me, unlimited,' you know?

And the saints both come from the same source. Who will you invite for dinner? Yeah, if you had a choice? So, since you as consciousness have a choice to not take your concepts too seriously and to not suffer as a result of them, then satsang is the place where you are invited to make that choice and go to your intuition. Everything comes from the same source. Then what happens is when we suffer enough from that aspect of the source which is the voice of suffering itself, which is the voice of separation itself, then it is part of the design of the play that it takes us to a deeper, more truer aspect of our being. Although both continue to be as much the Self, and yet letting go of ignorance, letting go of the limited idea about ourselves, brings a certain spaciousness in our life which we all clamor for in some way or the other. So, as far as what you're expressing is concerned, if you feel like you're not suffering, you're not causing others to suffer... you see, if you're causing others to suffer, it's in a way then maybe there's a tendency that you're not, you know, you're sort of forcing your belief system or opinions on them, which is not fair, you see? So, don't force them onto yourself too much because you will suffer from them, and don't force them onto apparent others too much because they won't like being around you too long then.

So what comes then is also now I remember, if I feel like suffering, I feel it's the same 'I' which is suffering also.

Yes, yes. It's only one 'I'. There's only one 'I'. 'I' playing the game of spaciousness or 'I' playing the game of suffering, you see? Now, the being cannot really suffer, but truly when it takes itself to be just a limited entity, it can play with the game of suffering, of course, you see? But empty of this play of identity, it cannot suffer. So, for you to suffer, for your being to suffer, it needs to play with itself as if it is something which is not there. And for your being to not suffer, it doesn't need anything at all.

Yeah, I think it's solved. It's just probably that the only thing that was coming which, you know... but I don't see myself shifting. Oh, I feel the person, oh, I feel I'm there.

Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, let's go to Gemma. Hello. Um, I don't see you.

Well, I was waiting for you to say something. Now you can see, yes. Was there a question when you put your hand up or no? I want to say something.

Maybe it's a question. Okay, let me see. Morning. She's... oh yeah, um...

It's okay, it's okay. Take your time. Don't... are you able to share the theme? The theme of this... this grief or suffering? What is the theme or topic? Are you able to share that? Can you repeat again, please? Yes, I was saying that this grief that you're experiencing or suffering that you're experiencing, are you able to point out the topic or the theme of that suffering?

Oh, um... you have a question written down in that book?

So we'll come back to her in a moment. Looks like she needs a few minutes. So let's go to Madeline. Very good. I received the good news with a lot of joy. Very happy to hear this. He'll be close to...

So, I contacted some of the sangha there and yeah, I think I need to expose the fear that comes with this process that, ah, sometimes I'm afraid I'm not... what is enough? Sorry, what are you not worthy of? Of being in that holy place. I don't know.

So you have to be super holy already to go to a holy group? I know it's a thought and by now it's stupid. Okay, can be there and they're very, very silly actually, very irrational. Because it feels like, you know, the master has this sort of table in which he has some worthy ones and some unworthy ones. The worthy ones are deserving of his love and attention and everything, and the unworthy ones are not. While at the same time continuously talking about oneness and how everything is the Self. Is that how it could be? What have you done that's so bad that makes you unworthy?

I'm trying not to get too much into this thought, so I didn't analyze, I didn't go that...

Rational, because it feels like, you know, the Master has this sort of table in which he has some worthy ones and some unworthy ones. The worthy ones are deserving of his love and attention and everything, and the unworthy ones are not. While at the same time continuously talking about oneness and how everything is the Self. Is that how it could be?

What have you done that's so bad that makes you unworthy?

I'm trying not to get too much into this thought, so I didn't analyze, I didn't go that far. But yeah, there is an organic belief in—unwittingly, it's an organic fear of something, I don't know. Yes, it's a natural sort of like, almost like an idea of being a bad child or something. So yeah, I think this week since I made this decision, I think the good thing was that I knew how to breathe in and breathe out deeply, but I had to practice that for a bit. And look, even today, like when I raise my hand, I thought I felt it's important to be on the hot spot, I feel like saying, in your presence. But I was in your presence already. And then I could observe my thoughts coming in, like trying to put me in a questionable position, like I should just tease, or I should relate this, or I should report this. And then I thought, 'Nah, just hit rubbish, throw it away.'

And ah, look, that's already so good. That's already very good. There's no other worthiness needed. Already this is a certificate of worthiness: to be able to notice the mind and its thoughts and to see its rubbish and let them go even once is worth it.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. My mind appreciates discomfort. And yeah, look, I take this transition period as a test, I guess, and I'm just committed in my heart to apply every pointing that I get from the satsang world. If look, I was talking to a friend today and I said, 'Help, maybe it's time to practice one pointing: don't believe your next thought.' So look, it is a good time for that one. It is a high time for that one.

And yeah, I think it's always a good time. Always a good time for that one, yes. But our next thought for a long time, no? So maybe now it's time to just try not believing our next one. Believing our next thought has not led to a lot of fun. Let's see where this one gets us, you know?

Is it wrong if I don't feel I have a reason to go to Sahaja Yoga? Like, I can't dig into my head the right reasoning.

Like you don't feel like you have a reason to go to Sahaja Yoga?

Like in my head, I don't think it's coming from it, and I don't feel like justifying it.

And don't worry about all this. If there's a longing in your heart, which is different from a mental reason—a mental reason can be very rational. In fact, many times the longing in our heart can be quite away from reason, and that longing in the heart is good enough.

It is, because I've been postponing this decision for most days now since COVID started. And I chose Australia, and my head was saying, 'Oh, let's wait till winter passes and till COVID finishes.' And at some point in time, nothing could click and I simply said, 'I'm going.' It's very nice, and it didn't make any sense to just postpone for something which is so untrue. And Anna is such a good mirror, and I think, look, her connection with Guruji and with you is so strong that when we had two weeks ago, when we had the satsang in the night, she normally sleeps through the night and she woke up with a tongue. Yeah, so Anna was laughing through the house. It's one o'clock in the middle of the night.

It's almost like a consensus sort of rationality trying to put all the pieces together, but the pieces are just not put-togetherable. And something is mildly struggling with that, but your heart is happy with that. So I see both aspects of you at this moment, where something is just so beautiful or something like rationalized, but something fine here.

And I trust, somehow I trust the—yeah, I trust whatever has to happen will happen. And I see, I guess, yeah, I see in this 3D world signs that that's the path and this is—and somehow this is where I'm rationalizing because you started—

It's fine, don't add into that. You just started. You said, 'I'm good in the heart,' full stop, finish. We try to determine signs and future and path. So just let your heart win this tug of war. You're free that way. Very good. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Very good. Let's go to Rikers.

Hello, hello. There are so many questions. Let's hear the first one. Yes, so often pointings say, 'Direct the attention away from the things perceived and more to yourself.' And then in my experience, the Self is there even when the things are there. And then I don't know how it happens, but then the things I don't perceive so much and a great silence comes, for example. Yes, but there's no difference to the Self. It's just a silence in the mind, or—

Yeah, yeah. There's never actually any difference to the Self. Even in your deepest identification and with suffering, there is actually no difference to the Self. Satsang in a way is for the manifest aspect of the Self, playing this game of suffering and identification, to stop playing that game of suffering and identification by relying on itself rather than relying on some conceptual version or narrative of the world. And sometimes to just allow yourself to marinate in your own being without being so caught up in the play of phenomena, that can be helpful. It can also be helpful.

Okay, yes. Yes, because I thought, so what's the point of directing the attention away from the things when I'm in both experience the Self? So why should I do this?

Yes, what is the point? What is the point of anything? Yes, so just for enjoyment, or—the need to reason is the need to suffer, actually, in a way. In the human condition, we are constantly looking for meaning with the instrument of the mind, where the meaning is already apparent in the heart. So the human search for meaning is quite pervasive, but it's never fulfilled unless we drop the wrong instrument with which to gauge this meaning. So when we look for reason or point or meaning of anything, what is the instrument that is capable enough of handling the mind of God, so to speak? So our mind definitely cannot.

Yes, yes. And in connection with this question, so much Baba tells us that we try to rest the attention in the Self. So my intuitive answer is then, how can I go with my attention to the Self? It's not possible because—or is it possible to go with the attention to the Self?

So don't worry about that so much. Just as you're withdrawing your attention and you're using the inquiry, like all of Guruji's beautiful pointings or a question like 'Am I aware now?', you are noticing this awareness and you don't need to fine-tune it so much and say, 'Okay, is my attention going there and that's why I'm noticing it, or is it some other type of knowledge which I am experiencing?' As long as the pointings are working for you, pick the ones that are resonating with you in the heart and know much about those which don't seem to compute, because you cannot compute this thing anyway. So a lot of things that I will say which will not seem—definitely not sound rational. All the various things which don't necessarily sound rational. But the good news with all true masters is that they've said enough that will resonate with you already. So you don't have to decipher everything that they've said so that you can build a big construct of what they're saying. I'm sure there are thousands of things Guruji is saying which are resonating with you, so you follow those. Those are more than enough. Okay, look at that, you see there? Let's try to create some doubt. Leave that. The rest of the—if there are a thousand pointings, what about the other 999?

Yes, yes, of course. Because sometimes I did the mistake that I tried to go with the attention to the Self, and then the attention just goes to another thing and that brought me out of the Self.

Well, it's something else meant. Okay, many times you will notice that even when I'm speaking, my eyes are closed like this because something feels more subtle. Like time, then there's not so much of this visual stimulus coming in through the attention. So it's okay. It's not always so cut and dry. It's not always so cut and dry. So don't worry, all the pointings are there to support you. You can taste them for yourself and you don't have to determine—in fact, we don't have the capacity to determine truly the way of the Master. So don't have to worry so much about that. Just if the invitation is working with you, with so many beautiful pointings, they're working, that's more than enough. You don't get into this evaluative mode.

Yes, yes, yes. It's fine. Yeah, the other question with this was together. So you say, and says in the essence of satsang in this short video, that you don't even have to struggle to make it stable. Yes. And for me, so during the day when I'm in activities and conversation with people, one or two hours, I come out and then I have to go in again. But when I try to stay in, there is too much identity that wants to stay in, and then it doesn't work as the same. These both extremes—

I want to give you a teamwork, you a lot, I feel it will help you a lot. In this self-realization and coming to the truth, if you put X plus Y plus Z together, then you've already gone too far. Okay? Just simpler than that. Simpler than that. If you need to determine what this is, what that is, and therefore this happens, you see, we've already gone too far. Worry about any or not so much. You see, the pointings are much more direct. And again, even in this case, if it is not resonating, leave it. There are some 17 books or something and 10,000 and I don't know how many thousand videos are due. So if something is like not resonating, if you feel like some struggle is necessary to come to stability, it's fine, don't worry. I'm sure at some point I would have said that also.

Yes, yes. There's more the—yeah, of course I want to have it stable. It's funny to say it, of course. But so, yes, so what happens—

I'll give you an example. Like Bhagavan sometimes spoke of the term manonasha, which means this complete dissolution of the mind. And then upon hearing that, many spiritual seekers then become obsessed with manonasha. 'I want manonasha, I want manonasha, I want whatever I do, I have to get manonasha.' Do you feel like that sort of self-affirmation and repeating to themselves this thought of 'I want manonasha' is leading them towards the dissolution of the mind or to more mind?

I'm direct—I'm exactly this kind of seeker.

And so your grasping or clamoring for manonasha is not going to let you do manonasha.

No, it's counter-productive.

Exactly, that's exactly what I'm saying. So when I said you don't have to struggle, first this is what I was implying. But I've also said many times that as long as it feels like there is some effort needed to let go, you see, it is good to make that effort. It's fine. So based on your temperament, based on the resonance of which you're feeling, the pointings are given in that way.

Yes, yes. I think for me this is exactly good because in the last week there happened something really beautiful. So I was really in a big crisis and I gave up my wish for enlightenment and I said, 'Okay, now I just have fun. And when I want to meditate, when I want to watch satsang, then I do it, but I don't do it to improve myself anymore.' And since then, so I didn't cling so much to the truth, and since then it works really, really, really much better. Yeah, so I don't even want to say it, what it works better, because this is the same old thinking to get it.

But yeah, it can become a new position. Yes, like money and spirituality, it's popular to say, 'Oh, I don't have a plan, I just live spontaneously now,' you see. But they don't realize that that living spontaneously—

To watch satsang, then I do it, but I don't do it to improve myself anymore. And since then, I didn't cling so much to the truth, and since then it works really, really, really much better. Yeah, so I don't even want to say what it works better because this is the same old thinking to get it.

But yeah, it can become a new position. Yes, like money and spirituality, it's popular to say, 'Oh, I don't have a plan, I just live spontaneously now,' you see? But they don't realize that that living spontaneously is the new plan. So, to be empty of these positions, all references, either this way or that way, you see? But what you're saying is very beautiful also. Yes, it's so beautiful. It's really beautiful. Just make sure, like you spotted yourself, very good to not make a new position out of this.

Yes, this is very... yes, yes, I already made sometimes a little bit. So right now, with the openness, there was... so when I realized I'm not open, now I want to have it, and then I try to become open to have it. That's not working. So then it's better to just be not open and that's it, or what you say?

Well, just an acceptance of whatever. The acceptance that this constriction seems to be present instead of being in some sort of denial of the constriction, you see? But best I would suggest is just be empty of all references. Like, don't determine what your condition is even. When I'm not open, then I'm not open. And or you ever say, like when we say 'I'm not open,' can we say that about right now? Like, be closed right now. Be closed. Be closed right now.

I'm pretty much open.

Yes, and that is true for every right now. Because to be closed, you need time. You need a thought. You need to believe in that thought. So, although what you're saying about acceptance is very beautiful, it creates a space. Like sometimes I say, when the mind is too much and you identify, it's okay, just suffer. Just suffer. It's okay, you know? And that makes some actual space and allows us to just say, 'Okay, I don't have to be so hard on myself,' you see? So from that spirit, it is all right. But don't get strongly into making determinations that 'I am this way, I'm not that way' and things like this, because we can't actually determine anything.

And yes, yes, the truth is not bound on any condition, right?

Yes. So don't take any condition, that which by your own definition is false, too seriously. Just lightly, lightly, it's okay.

Yes, yes, yes. It's really, it's really good to check these few points. Yes, and to have your confirmation that it's fine like this.

Yes, you're going very... doing really well. It's very... yes. Thank you so much. Good, good, good. So looks like we can play somebody. Let's play one more Kabir.

I see Gemma is back. We're reading in the chat that everyone is sending you their love. We are with you. Yes, may Father's grace bless you with so much love, so much peace. May all your afflictions be taken care of. May you find your place in my Father's heart. You see that everything, everything is the grace of God. You experience the love of the sangha, the love of the Master, the love of God. May this Atma Gyan become apparent to you. May all these things of the ephemeral world, which is just coming and going, be seen as light as a feather to you. Full love and blessings. May you be able to distinguish between your mind and your heart. May you see that your being is the light of this universe and nothing here can touch you in reality. Let there be peace. Let there be peace. Let there be peace.