Who Does 'I' Represent? - 17th Dec 2018

And I know that some of you will want to run. What's going on? But that is why we should use this moment that is available. The question was very simple and it's very simple. The resistance has nothing to do with the question itself. It is what we think about ourselves that is getting poked. What is the question? Who remembers? Okay, the question was: Do you perceive this hand? You perceive this hand. Who is that 'you' that perceives this hand? Who is 'I' that perceives it? Something as basic as that. What is there to run from? Come closer so we can hear.

So it was not broadcast, the entities, yeah. Okay, so after I stated this question, because during the satsang yesterday I was, I kept on saying 'I see, yes, I see, yes.' You know exactly what was continuing, vibrant. But there was 'I'. And the day after, I woke up from a dream and really there was, there was no difference between what was seeing the dream and what was seeing the waking up of, yes. But in whatever, cannot explain with words and stuff, but there was no 'I' witnessing this. Yes, but of course I was there, but not as the 'I' I take myself to be. Yes, yes. And it was, it was, yeah, there was no, there was no personal feeling or anything. Yes, yes.

So then what is the answer now? There's something that sees and I don't know what it is.

Yes, that something is... no, no, because because this, it's like a space. I don't know how to say this. Space is here too. I don't know if it sees. I don't know how to say that. What is the message in this pain? Does it have anything to do with... but I don't know. It's a mix of physical tiredness and yes, it's really, it's tiring also because I am looking, I'm looking a lot, you know? And it's like, I don't know, I don't want to put too much subtitles on it. Yeah, yeah. I was telling it also that the other day I could see the ego poking, you know, all these. She said something beautiful. It's, you know, yeah, she was saying that actually in the growth, it's not a word like a straight line that goes up, up, up, and the ego and the poking also serves the growth in it, you know? And it's the up and down, it's like a curve more than a... you see?

Yes. Oh, I don't know, but there's a lot going on actually yet. The moment like, you know, the resistance, you know, wanting to run or whatever, you know, and frustration or whatever. The idea of being able to... this 'I', this 'I' that knows it and feels like they lost it and they don't want anymore. They know what it feels like to be free, they know what it feels like to be a person. They want free, they don't want person. This 'I' you have to leave and it is simple. It is gone now. You say the voice of the temptress will come, 'come, come.' It's not actually 'come on, you have to stay in it,' but use all these five years ago, you see, like that. Hmm. Then they try to tempt you back. You don't have these are kind of earplugs in the sense that it could become like a limited state where I have to shut myself away from this voice. Then that would not be freedom, you see.

So you're living on this busy street. All the sound can come and go, but you are not touched by any of it. The same way this mind can also just come and go, but you are not touched by it, you see. So the only thing it can really tempt you with is your identity. It says, 'If you stay like this, then you will actually be free.' Who is that story about? Obviously, there is a buying of those and the listening of those, yes. But there's a difference between the listening. This salesman can come and sell, then you hear the offer. You see what the buying implies. You are sent this to have some good offers, but at the center of all their offers is someone that you are not. Even in this report which you said, that 'I know what it feels like to be free, I know what it feels like to be a person, and I really don't want person,' you see. Oh, look at that one.

This 'I' at the beginning of almost all these sentences, yeah, we pronounce it, has been formed at some point. Yes, yes, it is not natural. That's all I'm asking, that who does this 'I' represent? This 'I' who doesn't want person, even that one, who does it represent? And the thing is that, why am I chasing down and shooting down everything that we claim to know? Because it is knowing which seems to get in the way. What we think we know. I come and say every day that actually just check whether you actually know anything that ever happened or what should happen in the future, you see. And you check, can you see that? No, it's just I cannot confirm any of this really. And yet our religion seems to remain with that, what do you think we know. Yes, yes.

So isn't that such a beautiful... I don't know where does this cycle, whether or not the question... okay, why even the complainer of where does this 'I' come from?

Yeah, but who are you? Yeah, who doesn't... I don't know. Yeah, so how we make that claim? You cannot, you get out and you'll not find it in your intellect, emotions. This morning I was listening to yesterday to do a sensing of the week, yes, energy. And so she was leading someone to what is here. Yeah, when we don't think of anything else, this is here. Is he the only thing that does? Okay, didn't say, 'Oh yes, I am this or that.' I don't know. I'm aware of this, what is, yes. That even this we can use, this which is aware of this. Is what is there some distance between the one that is aware of this and this itself? Now don't use the term 'I' till you find an 'I' who it is representing. Yeah, what else is floating in that space? Everything that I also looking around.

It's perceivable, just like thoughts and things. That is also possible. It's like included in the sentence, uh-huh, as part of the thoughts, but no one entity like that. Yeah, we'll be coming back to, mm-hmm. And what can you see? What is? So when you saw that all there is is this, what if you represent later? I represent that one. Because this 'I' really is a pointer that can point to a limited aspect of their existence or it can point to the Absolute. Now if it feels like too much to let go of it completely as a pointer, see, then isn't it better then to at least point it to something which is more apparently true than rushing back to the limited one? So we checked and you said that yes, there is this distance or business and there is no separation between them and I. So if you were to use 'I' for that one, what it could be? What would it be like? Make a report about yourself as that one. What can happen? Do have you got something? Can I use this?

It's just attention, thoughts, their laziness, yes, suggesting that. Or just attention back to myself and let attention go wherever it wants. You will just add at the tops. What will you actually lose? And can you become that which it seems to represent? That's on digit. So if you try to control your attention too much also, that becomes like very constrictive at times. Strong spiritual serve now or something like that. And then you can feel like, 'I start look at my mind.' Is it the mind will come strong? This is like, 'I don't look at the hand, don't look at the hand.' Something feels attracted there and you don't have to get into that push and pull. Easier to let everything come in. You find no evidence of the one that the mind could be representing, you see? Of the one that the mind could be apparent just as our connectors, yes. Just to painting this to images, not even though painting all this craziness. Now where you representing? Yeah, they choose hopefully exist within imagination.

Who perceives? Remember that I'm not listening to the answer, I'm listening to who's answering. There is a sense after last answers and so what is the real answer without what this who still what that school? Yeah, how possible the visit in missing out on all the fun? You get the question: You perceive this hand. Who is that one that was? Is it 'I exist' to give a bit of firm context on that? It's so important about this to share of it now is that somehow we got to Guruji's piranha question. Who says, 'Can the perceiver be perceived?' And as it was being asked, I realized that really we've not asked it is because we get sidetracked by, 'Okay, so what does the mind start saying when I ask myself this question: Can the perceiver be perceived?' Or what is the state that starts to come? These kind of things, rather than answering the question: Can the perceiver be perceived? Then we made it play a bit simpler and says, 'Okay, you perceive this hand. Who is the one that perceives it? Is it you? Want you perceive it? What is this you? Who is I?' He's not awesome see about it. It's a constant because I just when I went and and then he was on service we said we draw with hands. Okay, but when you mean time Robert Adam, he's not from man, it is not silence because they talk about it.

It starts to come, these kind of things, rather than answering the question: Can the perceiver be perceived? Then we made it play a bit simpler and said, 'Okay, you perceive this hand. Who is the one that perceives it? Is it you? Do you perceive it? What is this you? Who is I?' He's not awesome, see about it. It's a constant because I just, when I went and then he was on service, we said we draw with hands. Okay, but when you mean time, Robert Adam, he's not from man. It is not silence because they talk about it on your JT five years. So, the talking or keeping silent about it, let's keep it secondly. The recognition of this one is fundamental. What words emerge, even I'm not so concerned about the image, but just because it is unspoken does not mean that it cannot be recognized. So, even to conclude whether you are missing it or recognizing it is not the intent of this inquiry. It is to push you beyond the 'okay, then cannot say so.' And it's not so complicated as you perceive this hat. Yes, who is that one? There's a seeing. How's that seeing? See, see it. Just the seeing is seeing. What does it have to do with you? Who is the owner of the seeing entity? You can use terms. Who sees that an entity is getting mixed up in the scene? Who sees that the dancer is not also that? There is no answer. Yeah, I'm not calling you back where Robert Adam says the Easter is the you at the rid of you then, which is me. And guess when I'm not gone there, yeah.

So, who has not gone there? Who is this concern about this one? I'm asking over this one. Who has not experienced it? Who is that one? Pose this one. The one who could experience that or the one who experiences this? This one is which one? But every piece here is the same. I was very pleased and you say it's who is it the same? What is it? So, we all, even in saying that, even when you're frustrated, crying here, oh, piece of things. So, what is this obvious? The term 'it' we seem to be missing. When I sat in front of people, the easiness came when I seen that was a pastor, yeah. But then that wasn't easy. It's face, face that. I mean, you know it. It's awesome, but it's so obvious and so simple. It's doing it just fine to me. Okay, Bantu, who is left back to the hole? So, and it's also a little irritating when you're feeling stuck and someone has come and says, 'But it's so obvious.' It's just like, I can understand that. I could understand this from both perspectives in a way. So, but I am asking him, is at the center of this story the one that was easy, the one that is stuck now? Who is that one? Yeah, you can try, can't you? Can't get it with it, without now effortlessly what? And you don't try and you try, what you become? So, there's duality actually, you know. We speaking Advaita, but I clear there is duality, which is that when you try, you're not that; when you don't try, you are that. So, that's duality, no? Should we call relax to the two eyes relaxed?

Dude, this one, this 'I' who doesn't want to, wants which one is that? What's so difficult in that question? She also said when she started, 'I have know what it feel like to be unlimited. I know what it feels like to be a person. I don't want to be person.' So, this one is which one? And same video saying, 'I don't want to be that one who's just speaking or something.' Who is that one? The one that wants and doesn't want is which one? There is the entity must have something performed, you know, that is its cause. So, what makes the truth represent this false one? Thoughts, everything is nothing. We experience without experience is nothing, like I separate or any subjects from T vector, which is like these thoughts. They come in and they're playing to make you believe the separation. And the one that buys into the separation, oh, which one is that? This riveting already it is there, Sindhu. How? It's a good way of looking like this is good. So, limited one already sitting there, yeah? Then why does it need to believe thought for separation? It's already limited one. If this is we're sitting there eating, then already celebrated one is there. Doesn't need to believe the thought for it to be limited one, you see? So, where is that one? The one that is sitting there waiting for the thought to come? It's the, it's that 'I' itself. I mean, the one that is this is it. I know how it picks up a sale, but they not mean in looking then. Otherwise, there's no one into the 'I' and then one separate 'I' was doing anything.

By who doesn't know is which one? You said, 'I don't know how it picks up at all.' His eyes which one? Yes, this is the, it is like if I, in fact, if I play as the imagined one, then I have many imaginary for to have thousands or so that I can do it, I can't do it, and lost it on our way. And if I, and if they simply just, if he the same one looks, says Jesus, you see that I smoother than one was trained answer all the questions that he was this idea was the, was the one I imagined and I kept giving an answer from that perspective that thank you. So don't go there.

So, I'm just saying that you say that if that one, I mean just at the witnessing, okay, then the job should be clear. That one should just stay as the witnessing. But now my question is: Can you leave it? Leave the witnessing? Then what is T as mean? It doesn't mean to stay as the witnessing. It means to, when, when a thought arises and you know, says if us as the witnessing, I believe it at some level whatever, then I start going, I start believing that thought to be me. And if I, if somehow it's just automatically, I don't know what happens, you know, naturally it goes away.

What goes away? I mean, the torches arises or go so they're all towards common goal, yeah. If I, if if this engaging with these thoughts, yeah, to how to engage like we said, what is that 'I'? Still haven't found a good term for this, yeah. It's like you have, you seen that multi-pronged, what is it called? You can just let go, mechanical arm or something because you pick up we are stuck. So, what is it? What is this picking up? It's the attention which moves here or there or whatever and it's concluded by me just for attention. Well, when the attention is on, in the perspective of, in the idea of being this attention, and I do pay attention mostly can be me. I mean, within the perspective of being in person, the person, yeah, I, the attention seemed to be one like wherever my attention men, I, I had a sense that I had gone there, you know, whatever it was like exactly then with me or that voiceover.

So, if your attention cool time agree Marshall, you will become one or you start pretending as if you are automatically? No. So, don't think the thought 'I am a green Martian.' Don't think the thought. Make sure the thought will come and then attention you said no. Attention means what makes it visible, what means the phenomenal appearance seemed there, seemed to be dinner, yeah. Potential makes the thoughts seem something which I can. So, the next thought that comes, give it your full attention. Don't turn it over to our attention from and then tell me what happens. I have a choice, one who does. So, now it feels like that could be a lot of them. It's just not, it was just seeing it and but no struggling like who can buy, I don't believe it or not believe it is the question Grimm.

So, we looked at returned, you saw that, okay. We first said it's attention that goes and once the tension is gone, then I would seem to become that. Then you looked at attention and said, 'Okay, and I can stare at something also, it doesn't make it me.' Then you say, 'I have to believe it.' So, who is this 'I' was to believe it? The scene imagined one hospital can deliver. Imagined one itself is a belief or is the one that believes the imagined one is also believed in a day? It gets that you become true young through my imagination and leave I die the story of all these. This is energetic me which is there. So, then if he's like that, so how will this imagined one go if it sticks around just waiting for the next believe? How will it go? Is it here now or it can be on? No, I mean everything is here now, everything. Everything, I mean in the sense all the sensations.

What about the imagine one, the person? No, no. Then if it is not there, then how can the person believe something that comes that was beginning? Yes, good design. I'm so now I recognize that I'm not, I'm not expected by anything that I may or may not be. But there's some on the thought that they're getting I got over 'I am that' just doesn't still hold some, some has some belief. I mean, I'm still giving that some believe so. Oh, we started the belief that I'm still not free, oh, I'm still not what I actually recognize that when you take us that there is no desire you never have. I mean, the way the thought comes, 'I am still not free,' yeah, the stinkers believed it's because you still feel it is true. But you can't find the one that is not free.

Yeah, I can't, I can't find any entity. I mean, that could be what she could be all three, yeah. You can't find it and yet you believe it to be true. If somebody came to you and said, 'My best friend has a serious problem,' but who can't find it? But nothing for us to say, 'I can't find any harm.' So, whenever we representing one who is lost, there's no recursive loop. One makes a quick recursive but it's, are you, I not expressing anything like what I have read? Okay, it's just everything is just a thought. I mean, everything is just a tough. Okay, for whom? I for me, you say who is this 'I'? I don't know. That is also just a thought, yeah. This is like anything, everything is this is that 'I' did it's um, I can't even believe that this was also just a thought, yeah. I'm not sure of anything. This wobbliness is like killing me and a killer who would killing the thought for me, yeah. This is this target illustration like this part which I heart is getting frustrated again like everything disappear.

So, on one hand you say everything is dis at all and then you said something which was like what? It's killing me. So, am I supposed to take that as good news that if the me is being killed, then maybe that is auspicious? This means it's like I, I don't want to get killed. It's disappear or this me be killed to. Okay, where is it now? We'll keep it safe. Where is it? The one that doesn't want to die, where is that one? So, this like after even seeing so much of, so much insight and thing like that, they can be this like protection for get out and in that fear of the dissolution of this one, then in that fear they can be all sorts of defenses built-in. So, I can agree out this sometimes even as see man, sometimes anger difference observers, 'Don't tell me anything, I don't exist, but don't tell me anything.' Is it like it's kind of so, but it's good to expose this thing. This is what's been killing me, you see, past few years, right? This one doesn't want to die or I don't want to die. This one we must bring to the light into your own life. Who is this one? Nothing actually has to be cleaned or capitalized, just everything has to be brought to the light.

Is it not this will be kissing all the knowingness itself which is knowing because I don't want to, I'm not because what can happen is that these terms also sub symptom, yeah, yeah. They can become this conceptual representation with human brain. No, I have seen, yeah, okay. I know that I'm seeing, yeah, okay. And that noe is not report from the Bernie, oh, from the how is that is normally don't? How is that right? Yes, how is that to be known? That is the question, isn't it? So, whether it is the functioning of a brain or it's some absolute unchanging, yeah. Is he did one way to look at it to see what is it from my experience? Is it the second is to say, 'Okay, boy, what, what could it be?' So, what we experience itself seems to hold a greater place for us because that's what brings us to like a piece, tranquility or something like that, easy. Because if you see human brain, but can you really confirm that this is true or your reality? Like famous example King Janaka, one night he has a dream. In the dream he dreamt that he was a butterfly. Then he woke up from the dream and then he said again, 'I am not certain whether I am the king who had the dream of the butterfly, you see, but I am the butterfly who was dreaming of the king.'

And a greater place for us because that's what brings us to like a peace. Thank you. Leti, or something like that, easy. Because if you see the human brain... but can you really confirm that this is true or your reality? Like the famous example: King Janaka one night he has a dream. In the dream, he dreamt that he was a butterfly. Then he woke up from the dream and then he said, 'Again, I am not certain whether I am the king who had the dream of the butterfly, you see, but I am the butterfly who was dreaming of the king.' So is it butterfly dream or king dream? Because even the king itself is a fiction.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. The brain is not... okay, so you have a dream tonight in which you dream you're a king. Yeah? Okay. Now, if that king's body is cut up, if there's surgery that is carried out onto the king's body, is what is found inside the body fiction or fact?

At that time, it seemed like it is a fact.

But can you really conclude it to be? Because yes, but then you wake up. There are another series of phenomenal projections. How can you confirm that that is not something that... so many bodies we experience now. To conclude that one of those bodies experienced that the brain must be the center of it... so in the dream there is this body. In the waking state there is this body and this brain. In the dream there is another body and presumably that body also has a brain. So whose brain's projection is it? This one or that one's? We cannot conclude this. Yeah? So that's how many philosophers also said maybe all of all of this is just a brain in the jar. There's just a brain and there's nothing else. But because they felt like there has to be a material reality without which all of this projection cannot happen, you see, which itself is flawed. Even that we cannot conclude, why we need a physical brain.

Recognize me, I can say that I don't feel at all how this could be the product of just this brain because knowing is effortless. It's going on. That's whenever you ask, we say, 'I see in background.' So it's not... here it is so apparent as it must be there also, which is to notice that this one is very much part of the coming and going. And this one, this entire thing is part of the coming and going. How can that be the constant? An aspect of this body, knowing that was the previous in which it was there, he was having right now. You know that if that knowing is not that... so so many of these stories of out-of-body experience or near-death experience, you see all of these. So for someone it can even seem apparent that they were no longer looking at this from this body; they were looking at it from the top of the roof and all of that. Then which brain is being used? See? So to conclude that it is like this one seems too limited in my experience. I see that this this one also comes and goes with some regularity. Actually, it is here to give some credence to past and future. Listen, no brain is needed to... yeah, we had this experience that to presume that I need some material object to perceive is very contrary to our experience. Of course, to the scientists, all of this is crazy talk. But even those scientists cannot explain that. Could not this entire interaction be happening in a dream? And if it is happening in a dream, then you would definitely be barking up the wrong tree assuming that all the intelligence is stored within this one aspect of the dream or something like that. So it's at worst it is inconclusive, but at best, if you were to go with what your experience of it is, you see that this one... I mean, I don't want to over-define, give some place concepts that that is the supreme intelligence.

So you said, 'How do you know it is you?' No, you said, 'I see.' And how do you know it is 'I' who is seeing it? You said, 'How do I know it is thing?' So that like, kind of know that I haven't seen. How am I... how do I know? The question, yes, see man, yeah. Who is the 'I' who is seeing it? Oh yeah, how do I know it is you? You mean who's seeing here? And in just doing that, it's... you just said that it came where there's nobody really seeing that. There's no person who's seeing anything yet, and that this person was... it was just a flash, was just a story. It was just a story. Being who's seeing there? No person sees there.

There's no asking whether it's a person. You say, 'Who's seeing it?'

If I refer to myself as I've been referring all day long...

I really don't want to get into what you've been referring to yourself as. I'm just asking here and now: who is perceiving behind 'I am'?

Yes, this 'I'. How is it... how you know it is you?

I don't. I don't have to know that this is me. It's not a conclusion that I'm making about, 'Now this is me, this is not me.' And who is it? It is this which is present, which is...

How do you claim this one to be 'I'?

I'm not leaving it like that, yeah. But how do you call it 'I' that is you or no?

Yeah, because it is me and I... I don't have... yeah, so how is this... how you know it is you? You are not making it up. Some not two things on this. This, I mean, who is not two things? The knowing, this which now is, is the very knowing. If the very knowing is... how does it know itself? Because knowing several techniques... we first breathe habits. It's just a knowing. Knowing, I mean, 'I'. How is it known? Is it known as a perception? Is it known as a concept? Is it known as a sensation, an emotion? How is it? Self-knowing means it knows it's gone. How's work? It doesn't... I don't know myself as anything. No, my status... stop it, Bob Newhart. It would seem the imaginary one is also a thought and cannot have thoughts itself. Resistance thought that is thought to have other thoughts. The root thought, maybe just a thought, not even always present as thought. The funny thing is, neither self as hearer and self as seen, neither can be found. Such a mind game to chase these concepts around. This is also just a thought. I see the hand but not as a hand. I see what is without... I see what is without determining what is. These and these thoughts... and these thoughts are seen by 'I' which is, and that's all it does. But the question is prompting more about something I know. The unnecessary thorn to the multi-other thoughts. I wanted to be free from the 'I' thought.

But you are free from the 'I' thought. It is thought, each thought, all of these, a thought. Like 'Who am I?' For even the reminder that you are naturally free from the 'I' thought is also a thought without identification, yes, you see? But if you are still identifying with one who is staying there, or that one who becomes that empty of association, then you might still be carrying this like monkey idea with you. That's why I am trying to poke and make sure it's... 'Oh, this is like I am getting it. If I just remain like this, I am getting it. Yeah, I will get it like that.' So sometimes we keep reinforcing these thoughts to ourselves in the guise of progress, in the guise of coming to it or something like that. Don't refer to yourself as anything at all. Don't refer to yourself as anything at all. Don't try to get anything or lose anything. Nothing. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba ki Jai.