When We Are Empty of Mental Understanding, Are We Lost? - 9th January 2020

If I take time, I can see. But when mind is... it is mind.

Okay, well, we'll go there in a minute. So the 'I' that knows it, is it separate from it? Take your time on this. They say 'I just know it.' The one that is aware of everything, that one 'I just know it.' It has no color, no shape, it is not just a mental concept, and yet I know it. Now, this 'I' that knows it, is it different from it?

Different. Everything inside mind, so it's different. We have to look.

So let me make it simpler for you. Let me make it simpler. You are perceiving this hand. So the 'you' that is perceiving this hand, how do you know that that is you? Which part is it? Is it your hand?

This, yes.

Is this 'you'?

No.

But that which perceives it, how do you know about that one? You see, I perceive the hand, so the hand is the perceived, that's clear. The 'I' that perceives the hand, how is that? How do you know it is you?

Because this is something that... there's something that's watching everything.

Yes, you are watching everything. Or do you mean 'it' is watching everything?

Yeah, but are you not watching everything?

Yes, you are. So this 'you'—are you watching that? Can it be? We agree about this.

Sometimes I watch as 'I', sometimes I'm together with mind. It's not very clear.

It is impossible to come together with mind. You cannot mix the watching with mind; it's a non-existent mix. One tip I will give to resolve it for you for right now: don't worry about what happened in the past and don't worry about whether you can keep it in the future. You see, you just have to resolve it for yourself now. For the future ones, some future Ananta will come; it's easy. For the past, it's gone anyway. It's just for right now. You are aware of perception. You are aware of the hearing of these words. And this is for everyone, the most important inquiry: you are aware of the perception of this sound. Isn't the 'you' that is aware of perception... the 'you' that is aware of the perception, what is the shape of that? If it doesn't have a shape, it doesn't have a size, it doesn't have a color, then on what basis are you saying it is 'I'? Don't think about this, look. I am aware of my perception, but this 'I' itself is not perceivable, isn't it? No part is confused about this. This 'I' that is aware of all perception, it is known without having to think, without having to perceive, because it is empty of qualities, empty of attributes. It is Nirguna, and yet it is never lost. It always is yourself. This self-knowledge or Atma Gyan is universal. Now, is it something that you have to stay as? Can you not stay as this? Can you step out of this and become something else?

Cannot. It's always here and it is always you. No other 'you' is ever born. But then only my question is, when during the day something happens and then I get caught up with these things and I forget who am I. So I want to be established strongly in that state. So how?

Try this. You discovered one 'I' which is the Self; it is always there. And now you're speaking of an 'I' that wants something. Look at that one. That which is aware of all perceptions, what does it want? It doesn't want anything. So the 'I' which wants, even wants to stay—it sounds logical, a good request, 'I just want to stay like this'—but this 'I' that wants to stay like this, which one is that? It's just the mind. It's just that which takes you away from the guidance, which was just to resolve it for now. The mind is always talking about future, always regretting or feeling tired about the past. Past and future. But right now, right now, do you want something? Is there something special about this right now? Mind will tell you it is because you are in satsang, that's why you are like this, and when you go into the marketplace of the world, then you will be different. You see? But you will never be different. You are always this awareness. So the 'I' which wants this is making this into a state, but actually it is not a state. It is that which is aware of all stories. Now, what you have to do is pretend that you are in the marketplace of the world. Pretend right now that you are in a tussle or something, whatever, and become something else and show me how you do it. To make yourself suffer, at least one thought has to come. So the first prerequisite is the thought has to come. But with the coming of the thought, do you just automatically... you mean this 'you' that you discover yourself to be without using any terms... so is it possible for you to suffer just because the thought appears? Suppose the thought is 'I think I am a green papaya.' The thought comes, 'I think I am not free yet, I am not getting this.' But will the one who's trying to not be a green papaya suffer from the thought of being a green papaya? Okay, let me take this inquiry. Suppose you're a sports person. You've trained for ten years to try and be a track athlete and you're trying to get into the Olympic Games. The thought comes, 'I don't think that you're good enough to get into the Olympics.' Because you had that intention for ten years, that thought affects you. But if that thought comes to me, 'I don't think I will be in the Olympic Games,' it is not a desire that I had. So it is not in the thought itself that the suffering is contained; otherwise, we would suffer from every thought. It is what relationship that thought has with our identity, what we think it means for me. And for the seeker, a thought like 'I don't think I am getting this' or 'How will I stay in this?'—we make this important because we identify with that thought and take it to be real or true about me. But it is never true about the one that you are. So just allowing all these thoughts to come and go without giving them your belief, without identifying, just remaining open and empty is the way to freedom. Just remain open. No matter what comes, you see? And if something comes and you are not open and empty, you grab it. Then the guilt thought will come: 'Ananta told me to be open and empty but I grabbed it.' So don't grab the guilt thought either. Let that come and go, because open and empty is available to you every moment. You cannot start this moment if you try, because this one now is impossible to miss. This is the greatest gift and the best news: that every moment you are free. So when you do get caught—if you do get caught—then don't buy into the desert of the thoughts which are coming after that, which will make you seem like you're an unworthy seeker and you're not doing well, you're not following. Let that come and go. If you buy that also, then let the next one come and go. Whenever you are reminded of the truth, just use the truth. Don't prefer the guilt. Then you will find that it becomes more and more difficult to suffer, and you do not want this... there is nothing in it.

I'm doing this before and I failed. It is a very good song because in the mind it just comes like this. Two thoughts don't come at the same time, even if it's become very fast, it is always one message.

This is easy. Just let them come and go. A Zen master said, 'Don't serve tea.' You see? What is the tea? The tea of identity, the tea of your identification. Now, one dish which will come which is very attractive will be the notion of a 'me' that is free yet. Just let that come. A thought is: 'How does my life change because I am finding the truth? When will I live with it?' The discovery of the truth is not meant to help the life of the person. This is what the mind will use to trouble you. Whatever comes, you remain open and empty. You just let it be. Don't bother even with the idea of freedom, because many seekers of freedom keep chasing freedom and keep thinking they are almost there. But this 'almost there' is just a mind trick. The recognition is very simple. You saw that you are aware of all your perceptions. This 'you' that is aware is known, but not known in the mind, and it is not known as a perception. It's just simply aware of itself, but not in any quality, not in any shape, not in any size. And also you see that to leave it is to pick up from the conveyor belt of thoughts. And even if you pick up, because that is a habit, don't become busy and don't do anything about it. Then when you can remember the point that when you are empty, the recognition is apparent to us. So all you have to do is come to this simplicity, and you don't have to come to it—it's already there now. It just is, always, before you decide to believe in the process of the mind. It can come, it's about something, but nothing after 'but' is ever true. Something before 'but' is also... no words can truly represent any reality, not even the phenomenal. Forget about cause and effect.

Is it like a deception? I must be making good progress, like that's why this joy is coming.

Take that. And if the joy didn't come? You see, it is never in what is appearing or arising; that is never the deception. It is always the deception in the interpretation. Because joy comes, the mind uses it and says, 'See, you're making good progress.' It still makes a shape out of you. If joy doesn't come, it says, 'They are getting joy, they are making progress, you see you are not making progress.' So whether it's appearing or not appearing, don't let it deceive you. Nothing in the world, no appearance, has inherent meaning. It is only the perspective that people give it. What is the perspective? The interpretation. There is no cause for anything; nothing is the effect of anything else. If that is too much, then say that the only cause is consciousness. So why do thoughts come in consciousness? Why do they not come in consciousness? Since the only cause is... if we are attached to the notion of cause. Otherwise, this 'why, why, why'—you go to the first 'why'. Why are you sitting here? 'Because I wanted to come to satsang.' Why did you want to come to satsang? 'Because I wanted freedom.' Why did you want freedom? 'Because I was suffering.' Why are you suffering? 'Because of my relationship.' Why did you have a relationship? 'Because my parents told me to have one.' Why did I... do you exist? All of this is possible only in existence. So why do you exist? That is immaculate conception. So if the root itself is immaculate, is uncaused, then all cause and effect is nothing. All that one immaculate one, that is the cause of everything. A few other things in that field... it's a linear story we get caught in intellectually and it is never-ending. Why are you here? You just make it up. If you start to believe that 'My joy is coming because of my satsang now' or 'My peace is all the fruit of my self-recognition,' then again it will make you into this. You should know that when the seeming cause and effect does not seem to work, then you start questioning your self-recognition itself. This happens to most, that these seeming byproducts become the benchmark, and when those benchmarks don't appear, then we feel like we are not doing it right. That's why people say, 'Inquiry stopped working for me.'

That my joy is coming because of my son, now my plant is all the fruit of my self-recognition. Then again, it will make you into this. You should know that when the seeming cause and effect does not seem to work, then you start questioning your self-recognition itself. This happens to most, that the seeming byproducts are taken to be the benchmark, and when those benchmarks don't appear, then we feel like we are not doing it right. That's why people say, 'Inquiry stopped working for me.' This is why it can never not work, you see, but it doesn't have to work in the senses. Even in that, it will always give you peace. So don't attach to a meaning. Anything that is appearing, even the label 'joy' is very restrictive. We have never experienced the same thing twice, but we have these very broad labels and we start to believe that this is what's happening to us. Can we leave whatever is appearing empty of labels? Simply put, including your presence. Because you are perceiving everything, you are inferring your presence. Is that right? Okay.

So, which mode of perception? Let's do this experiment. If all your modes of perception one by one stopped working—so first sight went away, then your hearing went away, and taste, touch, smell, all of these went away—with which one going would you also go? If sight went away, are you still here? Suppose that there was nothing to hear, there is no sound, would you go? Are you still here? Same for touch, taste, smell. At which point do you go? If there is no time, in the space between two times, did you go away? I don't see that's not possible. Otherwise, the mind, which is me, you see, there is always a gap between two thoughts, otherwise you will not distinguish between them. So in that silence, which is the moment of the absence of thought, are you still there? Oh no, this is it. This is it.

So your being or your existence is not an inference based on any perception. Because you looked at your external senses and you looked internally, and even in the absence of mind, in the moment, still you are. The absence of perception, the absence of perception, you are aware. So this, your existence, you that is aware of, is not inferred. It can be reported in that way. If you talk about the reporting, then that is different. Are you speaking of the ability to report only when perception exists? Ask your question again. Why is there no doubt that you are seeing? Let me ask the 'why' question. There should be doubt. No, because the 'I' that is seeing it is not seen. So you see, there is no doubt that I am.

Let me expand on what you said. Tell me if it is accurate. You say there is no doubt that I am aware of the perception of the hand. So why is there no doubt that you are aware of the perception? What are you calling 'I'? That which is aware even of perception. That which is aware, you are calling that 'I', isn't it? Even if you will not check if this is true: 'I am aware of my perception.' But this 'I' which is aware of my perception, we say there is no doubt. Beautiful. But how come there is no doubt? Did you see this 'I'? We did not see it. Did you? Is it just a thought you are having? Is the 'I' just a thought you are having? Yes. So that which is aware that you are having this thought is also just a thought? Okay, don't think about it because in the intellect it will be very good in some of these words. That which is aware that you are having this 'I' thought is also just a thought. You see, it cannot be personal.

Now I ask you whether the 'I' which is aware exists at all. So every thought comes and goes. So this awareness also comes and goes? So it is neither the thought nor the perception of any sovereign, and yet it is undoubtable. Like you said, in a sense, you said that you see now. Now the loss of innocence in the intellect will try to put some problem there, you see? Actually, it is very simple. I am aware of my perception. This 'I' I cannot perceive, and yet I am aware that I am aware. Let these words show through to you. Don't try to keep them in your intellect. The 'I' that is aware of my perception itself is not perceived, and yet I am aware that I am aware. This awareness is never lost. And because it does not have a phenomenal basis, this recognition does not have a phenomenal basis, we call it intuitive knowledge independent of phenomena.

So self-knowledge, Atma Gyan, is intuitive because it does not have a sensory basis. It does not have a basis in perception. It does not have a basis in intellectual knowledge, and yet it is known. A child knows it. Somebody who's materialistic knows it. Somebody who's spiritual already knows it. It is that you know too much. Work in this example. So why don't we speak about what is right now? To find the truth, we don't have to. So that which is aware of the perception of this hand, and you know that it is you, that you know yourself. There is no other self to know. At which level of your existence you want to know yourself? You want to know it at the intellectual layer? You cannot know it there. You want to know it as a perception? You cannot know it there. You only know it where it is always known, and that you can never lose. That's why it might all be simply: where do you want to know yourself? Like if you knew yourself, how would you confirm it? 'Now I know myself.' It is not my self, and if they are totally separate, which is not my self, but that is not efficient.

Now I make simply what is not my self: my body, my mind. That is independent of this place. Like body and mind, awareness will never be that business. The business will always be conducted as the body-mind, but you may start to feel like the whole universe is your body. Okay, what evidence will convince you that you know yourself? Can you see the difference? But in this non-duality, there are no two. Because some would have said, 'When I see no difference between anything at all, then maybe I can say I know myself.' So what is troubling you again? As you enter them, you're trying to plug the holes in the intellect, which can never be done. And this is the primary addiction for you. We have had the same conversation. So what is happening is that because there is a gap in your intellect, you see, there is a gap of a valid concept to put there, you feel like, 'Okay, this is what is missing.' Intellect, what's the problem? Why not do without what is the intellect? The attempt to solve non-existent problems with a non-existent one. The feeling that 'I am coming to valid conclusions using my reasoning' is the posing as if I am separated from the universe.

Would you be alright if you had no problem? What did you do with your time? I am saying it half-joking because many times this feels like if I don't have this seeking call anymore, it's like a prisoner whose prison sentence is coming to an end but he's starting to worry. I don't know, man, we'll keep killing of course, but something is incomplete. Something isn't complete. Something... you look at me. It is not possible that anything is incomplete. It is just the sort of depth of selfishness, like 'I want something for me.' And it is mind it over and over to you that it is not. What do you think you are that will come to completion? It is what you actually are which is ever complete, you see. But what do you think you are, and the lawyer for that one, the proposer of that one, you see, it keeps complaining saying, 'But no, no, but I have to get this answer. I don't know myself.' But you only know yourself. Even to say 'I don't know myself,' you may know yourself that you can't really build that. Even when you say 'I don't know myself,' you know that you don't know yourself. So you know yourself to say that. Otherwise, how are you talking about even me saying 'I don't know myself'? You see, if we do know ourselves, who are we talking about? It cannot be known as experience, as expected. It cannot be known as expected because it is not a perception. It is empty for just satsang. It's simple, simple, but we have made it into something glorious, glorious. So we expect fireworks and something like we're expecting some phenomenal fireworks in this recognition, which is actually never truly been lost.

And so, the one thing about the intellect is to not be an intellect issue. We do some more complaining to the service provider. Trying to find ourselves as a perception or as a product of intellect is like—what is a good metaphor?—sometimes trying to use a hammer to cut you up in the mail, or trying to use a weighing scale to measure space or measure distance. This cannot be done that way. And 99.9% of all spiritual seekers are trying to do it that way, waiting for that ultimate experience, not realizing that what they themselves are... so confused because we are saying that it is empty of all qualities and attributes. But if it is empty of all qualities and attributes, then how will you have an experience of perception? So when we stop looking in that direction, we see that the Self, which is aware of all perception but itself not a perception, I have never lost. It is always here. The only trouble is that the mind cannot make anything out of it. So it will just keep saying, 'But you can't find it. I didn't find anything.' Or it will present to you an image of some dark and empty void. That's what you want, but even that is a qualitative perception. A black empty of conceptualizing. Are we lost? Empty of interpretations, are we lost? Empty of mental understanding, are we lost? You tell me. Is there any concern? Or is there even this world's idea?

Whatever you want, I'll do a spirituality you will like it, hopefully. Whatever, only this will be recognized. Have you killed that look? So what we want out of a spirituality? What do we want out of a spirituality? You cannot see if you're sitting in a particular place, you cannot say, 'I have a desire to sit where I'm sitting.' So that's no longer the want. So that which is cannot be desired. What already is cannot be a product of desire. Everything else is nonsense. If you accept that, this journey will be super short, super short. But if you still say, 'Okay, in the discovery of what is, I want this to happen for me,' you may not say the 'for me' part, but that is implied. That can cause a lot of confusion. You will not get anything. That is my blessing. Our streams of mustard, I think, can be happy to you. Nothing can be given to you. All you're doing is recognizing this. What you are not is it. What do you think you are can never be. What do you think you want to become, you can never be, because it is like this. And also, it is the most difficult journey because none of your expectations have anything to do with it.

Okay, Father. As I remain open, a lot of scary ideas and emotions appear and reappear, and certain repulsion to these objects seems to be real me as I try to run away from these edges.

And it is this. Whatever you want, just burn them. Then you cannot be deviated. If you think you're on some rails, this derails yourself. Then nothing else can be really, because this is all just misidentifying. Isn't it all just idly? Just forget about it. You have no such problem. Number one way to save time in spirituality is don't try to solve non-existent problems. And every problem is non-existent. Even we can know instantly that this is your problem, but you will recognize sooner or later that it is so. Even this notion that 'As I remain open, I become more open,' then there should no longer be 'I remaining open.' No longer remaining 'I' or remaining whom? I even open? And you open, you are not remaining open. It's very important to clarify this because you may feel like when you think you're remaining open, you're actually open. The open is that open that you can't even see. Opening this open introduces meaning. The meaning in not a meaning uses 'I' and 'why' use. Because if you convert it into a state where every state can be attached, we are saying open is independent of whatever may be appearing. Doesn't matter. Nothing can disturb you because you're not holding on to anything. You can only be...

Let me give you another meaning of 'open'. It's very important to clarify this because you may feel like when you think you are remaining open, you are actually open. The 'open' is that open that you can't even see. Opening this 'open' introduces meaning. The meaning is not a meaning. I use 'wide' because if you convert it into a state where every state can be attached, then you are not open. This 'open' is independent of whatever may be appearing. It doesn't matter; nothing can disturb you because you're not holding on to anything. You can only be shaken if you take a shape. Can you be shaken if you don't take a shape? Let the space be shaken. How will you shake the space? You need a shape to shake. So, unless you make a shape out of yourself, how can you be disturbed?

So, it's a good contemplation to see: what perception can come and shake you? Our thoughts can come, but if there's an idea that 'I am staying open,' then even in that idea, there is a shape. And within these attacking thoughts, the mind's attacks can seem to shake us off. But if you're that open that the concept of 'open' also doesn't remain, then you are free. My mind will propose that it is impossible to be in independence, so the mind will hold. But I'm here to show you that it is not. I cannot be attacked by anything in this world. Even if this entire universe was to go to pieces, it could not touch my reality.

No shape, no problem. Left and now, no problem without the shape. You love the shape so much that you are willing to undergo all these problems. To give yourself a shape is to invite trouble. You love the shape so much that you're willing to go through all this trouble. That is the crux of spirituality. Do you love your image so much that you're willing to go through lifetimes and lifetimes of suffering to try and preserve that image? Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Mooji Baba Ki Jai. Pranam.