What Looking Is Simplest, Prior Even to Sight? - 18th February 2022

Am I going too fast? If it would just be about attention, then to withdraw the attention from this seeming outside world and to be able to take it and send it deep inside—what that 'inside' is nobody knows, but deep inside somewhere—and say, 'Ah, there it is, hidden behind all the clouds, there, that's the Self.' But then it would be what? A perception, isn't it? It would be perceived. And all perceptions can come and go. Like this one also would have to come for you to say, 'Ah, there you are.' You see? It would just have to then appear and for you to say, 'Ah, now you are in my field of perception, I have found you.' But that is not what the discovery of the Self is like. You see, I'm exaggerating to sound absurd so that it can sound a bit humorous also, but actually that is the struggle of most seekers.

What are we trying to do? You're trying to find the Self using what tool? Attention, mostly. So we want something to come into our attention which has the label, the tattoo 'Self' on it, and then we say, 'Ah, there you go, I finally found it.' If you are not doing that, you could be doing something else which is also with your attention: to just track for the byproducts. 'How am I feeling right now? Who am I? How am I feeling? Who am I? How am I feeling? Ah, bliss came, I must be doing the Who Am I really well.' Isn't this what most of us are doing? Many of my children are here also. She said to me, 'My inquiry is not working for me because earlier when I used to inquire, it used to feel so good. There was joy, there was peace. Now when I inquire, I just... oh my,' you know? So it stopped working for me.

So then I checked with the Sangha also that was sitting around, and most of us were doing that. They were trying to use 'Who am I?' as a simple question about who you are as a tool to get you some joy, some peace, some bliss. And if it was providing that, you would say, 'My sadhana, my practice, my inquiry is working.' If it is not doing that, then it is not working. But Bhagwan has not said anything about that. He had not said, 'Do the inquiry so you get joy, peace, bliss.' So we use the tool of inquiry to get to the taste of a particular feeling with our attention, and then it becomes about that feeling rather than the discovery of who you are. See? So whether you're looking for the Self directly in an objective way through your attention, or you're waiting for the byproducts to arise so you can say, 'I must have found the Self because I'm feeling bliss or I'm feeling joy,' you see? So if you're having to infer that discovery, then you're still using the wrong instrument. Okay? So don't struggle with your attention to find the Self. It is not going to be a perception. And all attention is, is a term we use to light up our perception. That which lights up perception is called attention.

So that is one way to struggle. So if I'm looking for a coin I lost yesterday, then I can look around the whole house and say, 'Where is that coin? Where is that coin?' you see? And if I don't find it, then I can suffer or struggle from it. But the search for the Self is not that. Is this clear to everyone? Because this will save you years of trouble if only this point is itself clear. So when we are looking for the Self, don't look for it as if it is something you will find like an object. Yes? And what you will find, I will tell you, don't worry. But at least what not to do I have to clarify first.

Yeah, now, so that is out. The second thing is: don't expect it to be an equation. E=mc². Brahman must mean, you know, 'I am that Self.' Don't expect it to be so. What is the other way to struggle? And this is another one of your favorites, which is: 'I have to be convinced about the truth. I know I am the Self, but I am not convinced, so I have to convince myself more and more.' Okay, so what does that mean? It's basically a construct of belief, is it? Like, I have the concept 'I am Brahman, I am the Self,' and now I just have to keep saying 'I am the Self, I am the Self' till I fully believe it. You see? Then when my partner is fighting with me, I have to remember, 'I am the Self, no, I am not the husband, I am not the wife, I am not the boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, I am the Self.' And if I can remember I am the Self, then my anger will be in control, I will not react that way. So I will hold this concept of the Self as a full conviction, you see? And then that will make me happy, that will make me peaceful, that will bring me to realization. This is complete nonsense. Complete nonsense.

You don't have to convince yourself that you are the Self. You don't have to believe that you are the Self. It is not a question of creating a new religion, a new belief system, that you are the Self. Don't try to convince yourself because all convictions, no matter how deep they are, the world has the ability to shake them. Every conviction that we've had in the past is shakeable today, and your new convictions that you're creating today are shakeable tomorrow. Okay? So just be clear about this. If you feel your spiritual endeavor at the moment is to be more and more convinced that 'I am the Self,' forget about it. Nothing to do with that. It is not a belief. It's not a belief. It is not saying, 'Now you had an old concept, I am the person, don't identify, but identify with the new concept, I am the Self.' That's a mistaken idea. It's very popular in India also, this idea that I have to get convinced that I am the Self. Nothing to do with conviction.

So he says another struggle is to try and find symptoms of awareness and non-awareness. Is it like the byproduct thing I spoke about? That you feel like you found yourself if you're experiencing joy, and you feel like you didn't find the Self if you're experiencing frustration or anger or something like that, like where my attention is going? So if I'm doing the inquiry well, then if I'm discovering awareness, then I must be experiencing some peace? So symptoms, byproducts—is that what you mean? You can contemplate deeper, then we can talk again. It's a good thing to discover because these are all the tricks of the mind which enjoys the seeker role as much as any other role. The ego is happy with the seeker as much as any other. So any position, many roles which define you in an individual way with the shade is winning for the mind; seems like winning for the mind.

So these two things are very important to consider. So I am claiming today that you cannot struggle without these two mechanisms: one is to try and understand, which we just spoke about, and then before that, to try and see something or find something. Clear? Now, if you are not doing these two, struggle and show me. These are the instruments of effort: to try and perceive something and to try and understand something. These are the instruments of effort. We may call them modes of knowledge, but here the knowledge that comes is effortful. Now I am going to point you to something which is empty of effort, but you can't take your mind there. You can't take your need for some experience there. Just come with the innocence of a child. Come to the innocence of a child. So, who is aware of your existence? Don't try to see something; just allow the question to do its work. Who is aware of your existence? Anybody who feels like it is not them, it is their neighbor, or it is one in the zone next door or room next door? Anybody who feels like it is not them, it is somebody else who is aware of their existence? Nobody, no? So all of you are discovering...

There you can't take your need for some experience there. Just come with the innocence of a child. Come to the innocence of a child. So, who is aware of your existence? Don't try to see something; just allow the question to do its work. Who is aware of your existence? Anybody who feels like it is not them, it is their neighbor, or it is one in the zone next door or room next door? Anybody who feels like it is not them, it is somebody else who is aware of their existence? Nobody, no? So all of you are discovering yourself. It is universal. The discovery is universal. The recognition is going to only to realize that, hey, that is it. And the mind will have a hundred things to say about that. We'll come to that in a moment, you see. For now, stay with me.

You are aware, isn't it? Are you aware now? You are aware. You confirm that without needing to see something, no? Do you confirm that with the need to see something? After seeing something, are you just like... sometimes some of you have this point where you say, 'I'm inferring that I am aware because I am perceiving, because there is a perception.' So don't do that. Meet the question more directly now. Are you aware? Yes. Don't expect an experience. I see some of you still trying to find it with your attention, something like that. Just simple. It's important. If naturally these things happen, it's fine. It's fine. You don't have to resist anything, don't have to fight anything, but you don't need to go into some special meditative state. Nothing. Just regular, regular stuff. Are you not aware right now?

So this discovery is on the basis of which instrument? Is it not effortless? Okay, let's go a step faster. Is it effortless or not? And don't come into any peer pressure. This is not group psychosis. So we just, just say honestly: is it not effortless? I'm just asking you if you are aware. The confirmation that you're aware to yourself—and I'm not talking about speaking the words, the ability to conceptualize—just the discovery, just the recognition 'I am aware' is effortless or not? Anyone confused about this? Mostly if you are nodding on the zooms, so take that as a yes. Second page please. Nod again if... so that we can confirm. I mean, if you feel it is true, the discovery effortless? Okay, good. Thank you. Thank you.

Did you need to see something to confirm your awareness? Whether you say you are awareness or you are aware, did you need to perceive anything special or anything at all to confirm that? You didn't have to, isn't it? They didn't have to. Did you have to think something before you came to the discovery? Do you have to chant 'awareness' like that? That means independent of whatever thought activity may have happened. Now let's go deeper. This awareness you did not perceive; therefore, can you confirm it doesn't have a shape? If it had a shape, it would be something with an attribute. It would be a perception, isn't it? But don't infer that. Every time I ask you a question like that, check for yourself. So don't use your intellect, just check. Checking is simpler; to use your mind is more difficult.

So it didn't have any shape, size, therefore no question of birth, death, age—all of these things don't apply to it. Now, if you personally didn't want anything out of this discovery... like now, this awareness did not have to do anything for me. You had no desire around it, no expectation of peace, bliss, joy, halo, enlightenment, freedom, disciples, none of that. If you didn't have any of that expectation, how will you trouble yourself? Is this not freedom? Is this not free to come to the recognition of who you are and to become empty of attachments, desires, expectations? This freedom.

Now, which part—be honest with me, okay—which part is more difficult? First part, which is the insight 'I am aware,' or the second part, not to expect, not to have a desire, not to insert it in our narrative? This is the trouble with the discovery of the Self, with the pristine, pure discovery of the Self: that it cannot be put into your narrative. And in the human condition, we feel like without meaning, and therefore narrative, there is no discovery, there is no progress, there is no point. Like the point itself, the idea of 'point' means meaning. That's a favorite human question, say, 'What's the point of all of this?' So if you can allow your discovery to remain pointless, you are free. Who's with me on this? This can seem a bit complex, but actually it's very simple if you don't burden your discovery with any sort of expectation of meaning or change in life situation or story or any of those things.

Okay, so he says this is a good point, so that we... let's use that as the first mind trick. He says, the mind comes up—even I'm preceding all this if something is inaccurate—and the mind comes up to this saying, 'Excuse me, I want to stay like this' or 'I want to stay free.' So for that, first, are you confirming you are free right now? You are. Good. That itself is a great, great recognition. So, 'I want to stay like this' or 'I want to stay free.' Now, in that version of the mind's idea, 'I want to stay free,' there is a protagonist. There is a hero. Right now, is that protagonist the same as what you discovered yourself to be? And don't worry about my hands, I'm giving the answer again, but is the protagonist the same one? The 'I' who wants to remain like this, is it the same 'I' that you discovered yourself to be? You see?

So first the misidentification has to happen for you to take yourself to be in time. The one that you are discovering yourself to be, 'I am aware,' what does it have to do with time? And don't try to think about the answer, just intuitively it's clear to you. In your heart it's clear to you. If you start thinking about the answer, okay, it is prior to the birth of the universe, therefore time is a function of the universe, therefore... although therefore, therefore is the intellect. Without any of the therefore business, without any of the inferring business, you notice that this you that is aware—shapeless, sizeless, attributeless—is not dependent on time. So you are discovering yourself to be prior to time.

Now, the 'I' that wants to always be like this is which one? How will you know that this worked out well for you? Like you were always, always free. What would you have to track? The time. You'll have to track the time. But for whom? For this individual entity, isn't it? You'll have to track this entity saying, 'Ah, this one, he was smiling in the morning, he was smiling in the afternoon, he was smiling in the evening, he seems quite free.' But freedom is not about that one, you see. So this is the... this is what I meant by desire, although we don't recognize it as desire. So to use this discovery of the non-phenomenal Self to help the phenomenal entity is a spiritual desire.

And the mind will have a second trump card which is very related to this, saying, 'But I came into this for this. I came to satsang for this. Now you're saying that is not possible, but I came to this for this.' So if you came for a pebble and I'm giving you a diamond, will you say no to the diamond because you came for the pebble? You see? But the justification is just like that: 'I came so that I could personally be happy for the rest of my life.' I have shown you that there is no person, so there's nothing to worry about at all about happiness or unhappiness, about all of these human considerations. But you're saying, 'But I came for this.' But I'm just giving you a greater gift. You can recognize it as a greater gift or no? Okay, you're getting there.

So I'm just seeding all of this with you. So when the mind throws up this trump card saying, 'That's what I came to satsang for,' but you came to this party expecting a return gift of a pebble, instead you're getting a ruby, you know? So be... are you happier or sadder? Should be happier. You should be more celebrating. This is greater than anything that we could have ever expected. That should be our approach to that second trump card. For the third trump card: 'It can't be this simple.' One big, one big trump card, ace of spades or whatever: 'It can't be this simple.' Now, what is your feeling about this? Can it be this simple or it can't be that simple? I mean, there are yogis who have been meditating in Himalayas for thousands of years upside down, balancing on their head, not drinking any water, just breatharian yogis trying to find the Self, trying to find God. What are they doing if actually the discovery is that simple?

Hmm, I feel like they're taking care of two, the second aspect: resistance management. So tapa, sadhana, all of this thing may be very good to burn desire and things like that. Maybe. I am not proposing any of that. I am saying just remain open and empty. But if anybody tells me that they need to do anything at all to come to the discovery of what they are, then that is a fallacy because you've seen yourself. You cannot find yourself with your hands and feet, you cannot find yourself with your attention, and you cannot find the Self in your concepts. So there is no way to struggle now left. So what is the third one? Too simple. How many have got this doubt or objection? It's too simple. It can't be that simple. If you had it, you can now throw it away. It is actually simpler than simple. It is the only thing, quote-unquote, where you don't have to do anything at all because you did not use the traditional tools of the human condition. Anybody wants to report something just on these points so far can raise your biological hands.

Um, yeah, there's a subtle point which touches um what you said a bit earlier. It was still a bit this attention thing. When you ask us, 'Can you stop being?' Yes, when you ask me that, I then I notice a little some kind of an inner movement. It's a movement and I would say this is a kind of... this is a movement of attention. Yeah, maybe it's only attention which goes away from phenomena, but it's... I'm not sure. This is... it's very subtle, but it's... there's a movement. And then the sense of... then this... there's the sense of being this 'I am,' this 'I exist,' which is... which has a little of phenomenal quality, I would say. And this movement which arises when you ask us 'Can you stop being,' I would say this is a movement of attention.

Yes, yes, yes, that's right. Two different questions. So very good you brought this up, very good you brought this up. So earlier I said very quickly—and maybe it's time to dive deeper into that inquiry—we said the sense of being or the sense of presence or beingness seems to be on the cusp of the manifest and unmanifest, you see. What did I mean by cusp of manifestation and unmanifest? I meant that it has a certain primordial vibration type quality, isn't it? So we say, 'Can you stop being?' and you feel like for some of you, attention may go on the heart area, for some it may surround like the body like an aura. So whatever the experience may be when you ask a question like this, you discover the presence, the presence of beingness. And that has this vibrational quality. Like, is it like a movement that has this vibration quality?

Now, this is the presence, the manifest experience of your presence. And it is both manifest and unmanifest in the sense of, if I were to ask you, is your presence or is your being restricted to where you are having the taste of it? Is it restricted to where you're having... so some of you may have it like in the heart region where you experience your presence. Now if I say, 'Okay, now is your being restricted to just the heart region?' like your intuition will tell you no, it isn't. No, it has no limits, it has no limitation, no? And yet the taste of the vibration seems to be, like you said, phenomenal and therefore limited, isn't it? So there's a distinction between the taste of the presence and the actual enormity of the being or the presence itself. You can taste as the primordial vibration in the manifest way, but the being and the enormity and the magnificence of it is an intuitive understanding that we have. We do not find it in a manifest way. So when we say this whole universe only appears within my being, it is not because this taste has to go in this space in that air conditioner, you see. It's not that we experience it in that way. It is just intuitively we are aware.

The essence and the actual enormity of the being or the presence itself you can taste as the primordial vibration in the manifest way. But the being and the enormity and the magnificence of it is an intuitive understanding that we have. We do not find it in a manifest way. So when we say this whole universe only appears within my being, it is not because this taste has to go in this space, in that air conditioner, you see? It's not that we experience it in that way. It is just intuitively we are aware that all of this is within my being. But the taste is like the sweets in India you get when you have the darshan of the Lord in the temple; you get what is called the prasad. So you get the prasad. The same with the taste of your being; it is a confirmation of your being which is phenomenal or primordial—very phenomenal in that way. Why I say primordially phenomenally is because it doesn't seem to have any other cause, you see? Everything else we can say, 'Okay, this is caused by this; it seems to be caused by this.' This is so immaculate, you see? So that is why it is called 'I Am' or Om, the primordial vibration. But it is not restricted by its taste, you see? It is not limited just by its taste. So that's why I like to say both manifest and unmanifest. This is on the cusp of manifestation.

That's what you're absolutely right in. When the question is asked, 'Can you stop being?' you confirm your sense of being by the taste of this presence, which itself is so pristine and beyond anything else that you can taste in this world. It seems to be the primal taste, like the taste from which all of the tastes seem to be made up of, you see? That's why it's a beautiful, beautiful discovery. And excellent. And even the taste, this slightly phenomenal taste, is not enclosed in the body. The sensation is not that it's somewhat in the body. It's just also this taste—you cannot localize it. I cannot localize it. It's just there, this vibration.

Yes, I wouldn't say it's in the body.

Yes, you cannot say it's in the body. In fact, you cannot say any sensation is in the body. Yeah, it's impossible to localize actually any sensation in that way. But especially this, we cannot. But you may be able to point and say—like Bhagwan used to refer to it as the Heart, you know, the Heart. And many times in satsang we also call it the Heart. This is like the taste of the core of being. But that is also too many words just to communicate the taste of the core of the being or something like that. But you're absolutely right that there's a distinction between the two questions, and that's why I propose them separately. First, I may ask you, 'Can you stop being?' and then your attention may go to the sense of presence, you see? And you say, 'No, no, this sense of presence is here; it cannot be stopped.' Then when I ask you, 'Who is aware of even that being?' you can confirm it is you. But the 'I' doesn't have any shape or size. It does not have even a vibration like this that is aware, although this manifest vibration is the vibration of that itself, but in the conscious way, like as consciousness.

So we are placing these provisional conceptual distinctions just to point, so that it's clear as to what we are pointing. So that which is aware of your being, you cannot say this is the vibration of it, this is the sensation of it, this is the taste of it. All of this is not possible. But you can confirm that it is I, and it is available now. Many struggle with—some slight digression, I hope you don't mind on this one—which is another mind tactic to say, 'I find awareness, but I don't find I there.' No, many say that. Many say that because we are so used to relating 'I' to be this guy. It's because we find this one as 'I,' then when we say, 'I find awareness,' isn't it? But the one that finds awareness is the Self itself. The Self itself finds the awareness. But 'I am not there.' But then how did you find it? So then that is just a misplacing of the 'I' on the wrong one still, you see? Then Bhagwan had a beautiful pointer about that: 'I' removed the 'I' and yet remains the 'I.' It's a beautiful point. So the 'I' that we were taking ourselves to be earlier, that gets removed, and then what is discovered? We see that, 'Ah, this is what has always been my true self, my reality, pure awareness.'

So this discovery of 'I am this awareness' is so pristine. But because we are so used to talking about ourselves in a localized body-mind sort of way, it can feel like, 'But I don't find I there.' What can we do with some water? What do you feel? No, I just have legs. So that's not the fourth that I found this awareness but I did not find 'I' there, so how can I say it is myself? With me, I feel like I'm losing my own. I'll start being louder. What are the three before this? Become class teacher mode. But the first one, I always want to have this, no? So it takes itself to be an object again in time. What is the second one? It can't be that simple. Maybe it was the third, second, first one. There's always... second one is 'it can't be this simple.' So what is in the middle? That's why we have the transcripts. And then now we know this one, which is also saying, 'I found it, but it's not I. How can I say it is I? I don't find I there.' See the words: 'I don't find I there.' And it's not that the body-mind is peering into that and saying, 'Ah, I looked there. I looked into the abyss of awareness and I didn't find any I there.' It's not that way. Can you confirm that you're not doing that? Because many can also feel that they're doing that. Many can feel like they put their attention on a dark empty space and that is awareness, but 'I am not that.' The opposite of Maharaj's 'I Am That.' So but that is another trap, by the way. The mind will make an image of a dark empty space: 'Hey, this is your awareness.' So then when we want to escape to awareness, many times we feel like, 'Okay, I am that dark empty space. Nothing is happening to the dark empty space,' you see? So that's maybe as close as the mind can come in its imagination capabilities to awareness. But if you're taking that to be true, ask yourself: who is aware of that dark empty space? Ask yourself: who is aware? And is that dark or empty in that way? Okay? So don't take any picturization or visualization to be the awareness.

So I hope that is clear. What is the other? Mind tricks would say that, 'I'm still here. You can't... you're not...' Yes, yes, good. Thank you, thank you. So what you're saying is, 'Yes, discovery inside clear, hey, but I'm still here, Mr./Miss Ego. I have not gone anywhere. You can't escape me that easily.' So do you find that the mind pushes that kind of button saying, 'Oh, if you were free, then I would not be here' like that? You can recognize it. The mind can continue with all that it wants to say, but it has nothing to do with your reality. So waves can arise on the ocean. How does it help you? Exactly, exactly. So in a way, we looked at that as a precondition to the discovery itself. Like, if you don't burden yourself with that, then you're just free. And then in that freedom, what are the tricks that your mind is playing, you see? And these are the various forms of desire and expectation that we are highlighting.

So, okay, I forgot what I was going to say. We can look at what is. And so the idea that the mind should stop, you see? 'I have not come to manonasha yet.' Now, that statement that 'I have not come to the end of the description of the mind yet,' is it a thought or not? So by repeating a thought and believing it deeply, are you going to come to the end of thought? You're not going to. It's like saying, 'I'm going on a diet. My diet is to eat ladoos every second of the day.' So I want to lose weight. I want to lose weight by consuming weight. You will not lose weight because you can categorize your mouth. So by saying, 'I want manonasha, I want the end of the mind,' and giving belief to that thought, is to consume more thoughts, more calories. So it is not the best. So don't let any thought, even about what the outcome should be, convince you that you are not free, that you are not there yet. Thinking about the end of thought is not going to get you to the end of thought. So don't try to come to the dissolution of the mind. 'I shall be done with this by now,' this kind of thing. Clear?

What else trips you up? Like most others can come, but some specific thoughts should not, like resentment, grievances. Because we heard this attention... yeah, my attention should only be... means, ah, second one was this one should help my life. Where is my halo? But at this tip, I have to use a master key. Everything after 'but' is only rubbish, always. If you value it, you see, it will be about time, it will be about personal expectation, it will be about 'I want to stay in it'—all these kind of same, same things as we talked about. 'Why do I keep... why does suffering keep coming back?' All these kind of things. So it's like the one who's selling you the suffering itself as, you know, 'But by now I should be at the end of suffering.' The seller of suffering itself says, 'By now I should be able to something.' Which I, this little old me, or the reality who's come to satsang first time today? Hello. Feel safe. Feel as if you're at home, because it can be a bit intimidating during your first satsang. These are 110 strange people, first time you're meeting them, so it can feel a bit strange. But just take your time, feel at home. And if there's a question that seems relevant or important, or a report that seems relevant or important, you can share.

I would like to ask or share a report. It seems I can't let go of trying to find it as an object, the idea of it. Like, it's very sticky, that what you described in the beginning.

Yeah, okay. Thank you, thank you for exposing that. It's like the secret conditioning. In a way, I'm speaking generally, but you can also tell me this is how it feels. It's like we've been seeking objectively for so long, it feels so deeply ingrained that we won't be satisfied unless we have a magnificent experience of an objective self which we can then claim and say, 'Hey, that was it. Now I'm done.' And yet—and tell me if this is true for you—but for many who are looking for those objective experiences, they've also had many of them, you see? They've had also many of them. And many times you see a lot of fireworks, a lot of things. Sometimes you may see like the universe becomes tiny in front of you, or you may see some boundless space, or you may see the form of the Lord as Krishna, Jesus, whatever you may see, you see? And many who are seeking these experiences also have them. But what happens is that we said, 'Okay, once I have the experience of it, I'll be done.' But I have not met one like that. I never met one who has a spiritual experience and says, 'Done.' 'I wanted an objective experience of the Self, I had it in a fast, magnificent way or the super subtle way, whatever I had it, and I'm done with my seeking.' I have not come across such a one, you see?

And funnily enough, this is the example of Arjuna and the Bhagavad Gita, isn't it? So Lord Krishna already told him that the Self is not objective, not phenomenal, it is beyond birth and death and time, you see? But Arjuna keeps saying, 'Show me, show me your magnificent form.' And He does. The Lord shows him the magnificent form of God, which is beyond imagination. And yet Arjuna was not free after that experience. Forget free, not even at the end of suffering, not even the end of that particular suffering. So this is the thing with the experience chasing: that you get an experience, then you want more and more and bigger, because you will only ultimately be satisfied with the non-phenomenal, you see? Because in phenomena, things can always be bigger and better. You may see a magnificent experience, but your mind can still say, 'You can do one better.' If not one better in space, it will say one better in time: 'It lasted only five minutes, it should...'

End of suffering, not even the end of that particular suffering. So, this is the thing with the experience chasing: that you get an experience, then you want more and more and bigger, because you will only ultimately be satisfied with the non-phenomena, you see? Because in phenomena, things can always be bigger and better. You may see a magnificent experience, but your mind can still say you can do one better. If not one better in space, it will say one better in time. It lasted only five minutes; it should have lasted for five days, then I could have said this is like the studio Buddha or something and then I'm forever free, you know? So, it will always tell you more and more and better and better if it is phenomenal.

So, what is the antidote to this? The antidote is to just remind you again and again that don't look at it that way, you see? Don't look at it that way because that is a fallacy; it is ignorance. And something will settle with this reminder because it is coming from within you itself. The words of satsang are just reminders coming from your own intuition reminding you. So, it will settle with that. And you are already nodding, so I can see there is this confirmation of these things happening with you also. I'm sure you had plenty of spiritual experiences where, if you were just starting your journey, you would have said, 'If I have even one of those, I would confirm that this is the Self, there is a God, it is clear, it is apparent.' Even one of those. And you had many of those, and still we are not done.

So, that experience chasing actually never ends in that way. So, it really ends when you meet yourself without the need to experience, without the need to taste an attribute of yourselves, and you don't burden yourself with personal expectation or spiritual desire. Just God for God's sake. Just 'I want the truth because it is true.' That's it. So, I'm hoping that this conversation has chopped up the main, the majority of the power of the conditioning to try and grasp it in a phenomenal way. Some of it may just flicker because we become experts at it in that way for quite some time, so it may stick around for a bit in some way. But the trick is not to beat yourself up about it, you see? 'Oh, I still have that, I'm not worthy' or some nonsense like that. Just keep reminding yourself of this and it will neutralize the false condition.

So, the power of the words in satsang, of course, is much beyond words, but one of the useful by-products is that they serve as antidotes to other concepts. So, if you have a concept, 'I need to find God in this way that I can grasp nominally,' and a credible source has told you that that is not the way to find, that does have a neutralizing effect somewhere. But one tip I have for you, so that you don't go too much in the other direction, is that don't create a new set of concepts around that. So, don't become like a believer in the concept, 'No, no, all those who are looking for God in an objective way are stupid and they don't know what they're doing. I'm done with all that business, I am not seeking anymore,' you see? All of that. Don't get into the other end of the pendulum. The mind can only understand the opposite. I'm pointing you to a neutrality.

So, when anytime you find yourself becoming too strong about a particular position, just soften it up. Because the whole conversation is about how the truth is not objective, then to try and come to some objective conclusions about the truth is a great fallacy, isn't it? So, it's... but we are used to using our intellect, so we swing between the two ends: 'I want to find God objectively,' 'No, no, I'm not seeking anymore,' so I'm just done with this stuff. So, don't create any new positions about yourself, about your false self, which is as much a fallacy as the old one. I feel good. So nice to have you here. Who else? First time? Nobody else? Who haven't I spoken to for a bit? Is it possible to hear me completely? Yeah, good. Yeah.

I don't have anything strong like a problem too, so just felt a little bit today just to come up because I haven't spoken to you for quite some time. So, what's your report on our contemplation so far today? Yes, and like when we were checking like what can the mind trip up, even now, maybe before I put my hand up, it was like in this like conceptual emptiness, like there is no question of awareness or something. So, like, did I... I wasn't like struggling with it, but have I really like... have I really like what you're pointing to, like the simplicity of is it like... or yeah, something like this. Yes, what the heck is that? In conceptual emptiness, even there's no awareness also, like that is that... well, I am still here somehow and like, yeah. Yes, but like did this cover actually...

It's very good. Let me say a few things about that and then you can come in also. So, the term, any term, any concept is a concept, no? So, even the concept of awareness as we use to point, you see, and say 'awareness, you are awareness,' it then loses its meaning in that way. Just like the roadmap loses its meaning once you've reached your destination. If you are using Google Maps to come to satsang and then in the satsang also you're not listening to me, you're just looking at the Google Maps, turn it off, you see? So, if awareness is a worthy pointer because it is useful to point you there, but like every word, it can be misunderstood, it can be misused. Maybe it was invented to convey something else; maybe it was used to convey and extend the extent of attention on something, so 'I'm more aware of this or less aware of that.' But we are using that term in satsang in a particular way.

But once you have come to the home, then you don't need the map anymore. So, all concepts then can be taught. Then what can happen is that your intuition, your heart, may also allow, may also use these words to communicate. If somebody comes to you and says, 'What has happened to you? What did you discover?' so when you say, you may say, 'I found that I am awareness.' So, in that way, the vocabulary is still there available for intuition to use, but not so that you can build a conceptual house in that anymore. That's why I love the term used in your conceptual emptiness. In all terms, including awareness, consciousness, body, world, universe, even guru, discipline, everything, everything, everything goes.

It's like not that I'm lost, but it's... I feel very much good even though these sensations are still playing, but it really kind of like... I don't know. It still being was clarified that like not seeking for the byproduct somehow, because that was very somehow very strong here. So, yeah. Somehow, yeah.

Very good. Hey, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, let's hear from Kavitha.

So, after last time, I'm feeling much lighter. There was a lot of... the next day itself I started feeling that all my emotions and everything I was experiencing was being experienced and it... there was nobody here experiencing it, in the sense just not me, you know? Yes, yes. I was crying and I had a tremendous pain the next day for something that happened, and just felt that it wasn't my sorrow. There seems to be some concept yet about, because of Ramana's teachings that I've heard, that until all your vasanas are removed, it's not complete, you know? You can experience this and it's all nice, but each vasana has to be removed. So, there's awareness that the vasanas are still there, although they're not mine, but they keep coming up. And so, there's all kinds of stuff which is yet so-called like a baggage. So, there seems to be some kind of... what do I do about that? Yes, it comes up again, you know?

Okay, thank you. Thank you for bringing this up because this is another classic trump card. And this, in a way, is... if you read the beginning of Be As You Are, this is the challenge that somebody brings up to Bhagavan also. So, I'll just remind you of that conversation from paraphrasing from what appears here. So, Bhagavan said this: that you cannot attain the truth. You cannot attain the truth. The only... the false has to go, you see? The Self is here. You have to drop your ignorance, you see? The only thing you can do is drop your ignorance. And then he said, 'Till you drop all your ignorance, the Self will not be found or you cannot be free.' So, the seeker says, 'But what is this? How do I drop my ignorance?' You know what Ramana says? That 'You have dropped it now.' It is true for you right now, you see?

Now, many may read that and see he was talking to that particular seeker that he was just ripe, about to fall from the tree, and then Bhagavan got in there and said, 'You have dropped all of it now. Now you can be free.' No, he was saying right here, right now, all of you are empty of your ignorance, you see? So, in response to something like this, I made the metaphor of the tree and the leaf. So, if your vasanas are the tree, but you are empty of them right now fully, all of you, whether you like it or not, whether even if you wanted to hold on to the tree right now, your being is fully empty of them, you see? Now what happens? That the mind sends you a leaf, like a messenger leaf. It says, 'Hey, I don't think you're free yet,' or 'You're not empty of your vasanas yet.'

Now, we may feel like we are just allowing that leaf to come to us, but actually we allow the entire tree of conditioning to come back. So, this is the game that is going on. How to be free from all your conditioning? You are. But if you hold on to a leaf that comes, then it comes with the whole tree, actually. The whole tree can be reinvented again the minute you say, 'I am still not free,' you see? Now, what all conditioning have you picked up in just that one idea? You have picked up the idea of time, you have picked up the idea of Kavitha, you have picked up the Kavitha who started her spiritual journey has gone on to this way, because it still conveys all this stuff. So, every word is so heavily loaded with conditioning that your entire persona seems to be contained in just that single leaf.

So, how to come to the end of all vasanas like this, then? How to come back to all of them by plucking at one thing? That's why I say that it may seem like, 'Oh, just don't believe your next thought,' but what will happen to the rest of my conditioning? There is no rest of your conditioning without your next thought, you see? That's why such an attack on the plan of the mind, just this simple pointer: don't believe your next thought. Because it cannot pose the entire ego without that single message, which you may say is quite harmless. Sometimes we even look at these things and say, 'Okay, how is something like that... couch is brown... how is that conditioned?' It's a thought, it's a concept. But how can that be conditioned? Because if you notice the tricks of the mind, if you give your assent to one thought, 'That couch is brown,' you see soon what does it do? 'Oh, I love brown.' The 'I' has come quickly, and 'I love' or 'I don't like brown' or 'When I was a child we used to have a brown couch in our house,' you know, 'I had a brown cat once.' So, any of this, you buy into one idea, the 'me' is just sitting in the tail of that idea. What have you taken yourself to be again?

Okay, the game is different from how it seems on paper, you see? On paper it may seem like, 'I have to deal with this set of vasanas, I have to deal with this set,' but that game never works out because, as Guruji says, you start cutting the branches of the tree. So, you start with this branch and you cut, but the ones are growing... by the time you got to that side, that one started growing again. You spend our whole life cutting these branches. So, the simplest way to attack it from the root is right now. And Bhagavan sort of put us in this sort of conundrum by saying that it's not possible till you drop all your vasanas, and it is immediately available to all of you. He was not messing with us, and you know he was, but you're really pointing us to that which is...

You start with this branch and you cut, but the ones are growing by the time you got to that side; that one started growing again. You spent our whole life cutting these branches. So the simplest way to attack it from the root is right now. And Bhagavan sort of put us in this sort of conundrum by saying that it's not possible to... you drop all your vasanas and it is immediately available to all of you. He was not messing with us, and you know he was, but he was really pointing us to that which is beyond time. So if you put yourself in your narrative, you can't do it, you see? But the way how to step out of your entire narrative is right now. So that's why when it became circular twice and then the seeker was just like, 'But what are you saying? How can I then be free from all your vasanas?' He said, 'You already are right now,' or something like this. So that's a very revealing conversation, and that's why for a bit I wanted to distribute the first two chapters of 'Be As You Are' to everyone who is coming to satsang. Can we get it? Actually, I would like to read something. I want to revisit this part of it. I feel like it's quite, quite very useful, you know.

A lot of devotees say that with Ramana, they say they do hours and hours of stuff in inquiry. They have heard David Godman say that in one of his videos. See what I do—sorry, I missed that—the hours of work, hours and hours of self-inquiry. They do hours and hours doing the 'Who am I?' and it's a non-stop thing, you know. Yes, yes. So isn't that then taking away exactly from what you said? Because that's in a way you're buying into somebody that needs to get released or, you know, you're buying into that whole concept of 'this is someone that needs to do this self-inquiry' and that defeats the purpose, right?

Yes, yes. So that is why it's so beautiful. And David Godman actually himself is partly responsible for this. 'Be As You Are,' in a way, where one is clarified that if you are done in the first chapter, you don't need to go to the second chapter. So the first chapter is that you are the Self, you see. Once it is apparent to you, you don't need to go to second. I don't know where self-inquiry is, maybe second chapter or third chapter. So it's a reverse sort of book where you can stop at where you feel like you're done. So there's self-inquiry, then later there is even about chanting and prayer and all of those things, right? So he says at whatever point you feel like it resonates with you or you come to your discovery, then that is enough. You don't need to go further. And self-inquiry is not the first chapter. So it is once you come to the recognition, then nothing obviously you needed because you find that you've never left the destination actually; you're always there.

So a lot of it also can be used as a practice for the second aspect of it, which is the resistance management part of it, which is the mind keeps coming back with new propositions that we've believed in the past so much. So how to be empty of those, like we were talking last time in terms of recurring patterns of thought and how to pull them into the inquiry. In that way also the inquiry is helpful. But those who are free don't need to inquire. Ramana did not say that 'I myself am inquiring all the time.' So everybody is free like in that sense, right? Yes, yes, yes. But they as if they are not when they are in the throes of these conditioning. This was nice. So how to be free from vasanas? Recognize that you are. If you can't recognize that you are, inquire. If you can't inquire, pray. If you can't pray, sing to somebody. If you can't, you know, do some hatha yoga. If you can't do hatha, what is possible for us to do to find God?

Bhagavan also spoke about surrender, right? Also would mean that there's someone to surrender.

Well, the starting point is that there is someone. The starting point is that there is someone to either inquire or to surrender. If the starting point itself it is apparent there is no one, then no surrender or inquiry, you see? Now what happens when you inquire? You are saying, 'Who witnesses this thought?' Say, 'I witness it. I am perceiving.' Who is aware of this perception? You come to the discovery of what you are and you see the thought is not about you, you see? What is surrender? Thought comes, you say, 'Not my problem, Father's problem.' That is surrender. In both cases, the thought does not get a hold on you and you don't make yourself into a shape which the thought is proposing. So it's working at that level of deconstruction. At the same level, you don't buy into the concept which the leaf is proposing, and then the tree cannot have a chance to grow there.

Thank you, Father. Thank you so much.

So if you're of a temperament which is more inquiry time—and this temperament also changes from hour to hour or sometime—but of inquiry and inquire. If you feel more devotional, more surrender, surrender. If you feel like none of this is true and as long as it's just not conceptual, it's not just like a conceptual Advaita, but it's just true inside and you can smell it onto yourself. All of you know in your heart as if something is just meant to or it is true, true from the heart. So use that sense of smell in that way so that you don't get trapped in any sort of spiritual ego like a conceptual Advaita. 'But I am the Self.' That sounds like, 'But I am a God.' He said, 'I am also God, why should I bow down?' He was right, he was not wrong, but it was coming from a limited conceptual place. But the words were accurate in a way.

So the same thing when it is inside from the heart is pure fragrance, and it is just dry concept from the head is just spiritual garbage. So that's my advice: that although the truth is super simple, the minute you make it conceptual, the same truth will bite you. So don't take either position that 'I should do' or 'should not do.' Do whatever comes up naturally at that point. Yes, and that doing is going to happen naturally. And don't judge yourself based on that. Don't have these parameters of right and wrong, good or bad, better and worse. Thank you. Okay, there are those that have spoken already. Can I request them to put their hands down and let's go to Srikant? Yeah, it's been some time since I... here, how are things in Hyderabad? Okay, good. And I'm just seeing if something comes up. So in the interim, I just gave someone some advice because it's a habit here.

So primarily all of this is about not using the wrong instruments. Yes, that much is... and you're not trying to perceive your way to some truth, then you cannot falter on this path. In fact, there's no path left. And you cannot make a mistake with the right instrument. You cannot do it right or wrong. You cannot use your intuition wrong or use it right. It is just your intuition.

I was not able to understand what he was thinking.

So if you're... what can happen is you can try to use your mind thinking. Think, 'What is 42 multiplied by 37?' So you may say, 'Okay, 2 times 7 is 14, one carry...' You may do all of that, but God cannot be found in that process. In the same way, you may say, 'Okay, Shankara said like this, Bhagavan said like this,' beautiful set of concepts which then become my God, you know, and I can be free. It cannot work like that. So you cannot put the best spiritual concepts together and make the house of freedom. You will just make a house of spiritual ego. The second thing we spoken about about the Lord, which is you cannot really go on an objective journey like a search trying to find something in a perceptual way. So these are the wrong instruments. Now to use the right instrument is to only stop relying on the wrong instrument. That's all.

Can we say keeping quiet?

Correct, exactly. So what Papaji meant when he said 'keep quiet' was exactly this, but it has been misunderstood to mean something like not talking or something like that. So this is just all of this satsang today, just a clarification of those two words.

Often these days my mind tries to pull my attention saying that, 'You are not looking for a job,' and then, 'You are not even, you know, trying to contemplate or do your sadhana more.' I somewhere I know that this is how mind is gonna try to pull me.

How can you try now in the sense... okay, so you can try for a job, you can send some emails and all that, but how can you try spiritually? I have closed all those doors for you. Like, try with your intuition. Can you try to do something intuitively? In the world we may speak like that, but the intuition, as I have shown you, is beyond all these notions of trying and not trying. Yes, Father.

Whatever is happening, that is intuition?

Everything is the grace of this intuition, we can say, you know, in one way, because this intuition itself is the Satguru presence. But I'm saying that can you go to this intuition and try to live your life from there? Can you try over there? No, we can't do it as an individual. It is just the absence of trying with the wrong tools that is the presence of using the right tools. Everybody is out... how to use intuition? No, how to then, how to, you see? But there is a precondition in the wheel. Like if you don't rely on the wrong instruments, then that is the hub. It's almost like waiting patiently—I mean, I'm painting a metaphor which is going too far—but your intuition is all just waiting patiently because it's timeless. It's not as much... it's just, yeah, you know, then it's when you're finished your playing with grasping in perception, like okay, then you go to the play of grasping with thought of trying to understand more and more and more and more, and intuition is very impatient. And the instant you're done with that game also, it's not that you're lost. Nobody has reported, except when they take a feeling of wobbliness to be lost, you see? Nobody has dropped the reliance on perception and concept and said that 'I am lost,' you see? That's astounding, isn't it? Because we rely on perception and concept because we feel like without them we are lost. But what is your actual report when you do it? In fact, that is when you report that you are found. It's astounding, some of these things, as to how upside down it is in our minds.

Now the mind is troubling him saying, 'You're not looking for a job, at least become a superstar spiritual disciple or whatever. You're not even doing that. You're just wasting time on, you know, hot stuff and watching cricket and, you know, sleeping, sleeping.' It's pushing your button that, you know, it's pushing you from that way. So don't worry about it.

Yeah, then somehow I read this... see, you decide what your trend says. And then I was listening to my... when I spoke to Mooji Baba, I was listening to that part from one of my videos, and then even Mooji Baba was saying the same study and supporting away. I mean, at least I know.

How many of you feel like there's something missing in your discovery or your insight? Like, 'I'm getting it but not fully.' Can you get it halfway? That's another tip. Maybe we should make just a booklet of tips or tricks from the mind and tips to overcome them from this transcript. Like, 'Yes, yes, I've had some glimpses.' No, I've heard this many times: 'I've had glimpses but I'm not discovered fully.' Now, can you discover the Self halfway or quarterly? Can you do it? Try to discover a bit of yourself. It's impossible to do. So what you're claiming you have done is impossible. You cannot just have a glimpse like, 'Oh, the Self was very shy, so the Self just gave me a little there.' It's impossible to do. And then who is trying even? Of course, is a bazooka question. But you notice the nonsensical propositions from the mind which tells you, 'But you only had a glimpse, not seen yourself fully,' because it is trying to put yourself in only terms of space and time. It's not like that. Try to see just a part of yourself. Can you see just see a little bit of the Nirguna, little bit of the attributes? Can you do? Absurd, absurd when I point it out like this. But when the mind is whispering to you saying, 'You had some glimpses, but don't act too smart, do not form the Self...'

But you notice the nonsensical propositions from the mind which tells you, 'But you only had a glimpse, not seen yourself fully' because it is trying to put yourself in only terms of space and time. It's not like that. Try to see just a part of yourself. Can you see just see a little bit of the Nirguna, little bit of the attributes? Can you do? Absurd, absurd when I point it out like this. But when the mind is whispering to you saying, 'You had some glimpses but don't act too smart, do not form the Self,' it was supposed to use like this doubter's voice. It comes and says these stories, but investigate that. Can you even do what the mind is proposing? Just get a glimpse? Hasn't it bothered many of you? You had a few insights, you come to satsang and you get a few insights, but where does it all go in day-to-day life?

So are you trying to solve something, my dear? No, Father, I am just trying to keep quiet.

Trying to keep quiet is not keeping quiet. Yeah, I can see that as well.

How would you try it? Yeah, it's even, it's very, very... see, trying to be, not being. I'm just going to try to just be from now. That itself is the dust in the eye. Respect of destiny and whatever he's watching, it is what intuition is. Whatever he's watching, this all happening, it is what intuition is in a way.

Yeah, I won't argue with that because we're not trying to make conceptual bundles of separation. Usually when I refer to intuition, I'm just talking about the Satguru's presence which is available to guide us at every moment and it is the source of true insight. But it is not separate from reality itself, so it's fine.

Yeah, I mean I read somewhere Bhagwan saying that 'I don't do anything, but in my presence whatever has to happen will happen.' Yes, sometime in March I am trying to come to Bangalore. Yeah, whom should i approach for this address or details of this?

In the groups, the WhatsApp groups, no? So you could write to Jyoti Ma even now. See you later. Thank you.

Can you hear me well? It's all right. It's not green but... later as you move it closer, yes. Yeah, okay, thank you. I don't know what to say exactly. Just the last few months I didn't speak to you, so I wanted to come and speak and also like share a bit what's been going on. Yes, like there are periods and periods. There are some, like recently there was a quite a long period—long for me—where there was more clarity. Like I was more... it was like an intuition, not fully, fully felt, but there was an intuitive sense that I am awareness and I can just not identify with anything. And it was very, it felt very powerful, like just a small switch of perception but very... it had a power. Before, like I was only maybe trying to believe it or to see it, but I couldn't. But somehow then the depression comes back and it's very blurry again and it's very dark. And like I feel like I cannot do anything to get back the clarity and then I get very discouraged. And even today, like I don't feel there is this clarity to see, but I also feel there's more space in me, like also for trusting more in grace. And I also want to ask for your grace, like whatever is in the way and whatever is... I don't know, I feel there is some a lot of defending the mind. I can see it sometime, but it's not conscious or it's not I'm willingly doing it, it's just there. And I can only trust grace that something will change in time or suddenly or however it will be. But my heart is with this, like my longing is for this. And whatever I can do, what I know this is person speaking, but I feel there's also needs to be like an aspiration, like something that I also have to do, like some effort and some showing up and putting my hand up, which is still very hard. Like there's a lot of shame many times that I still come like this, but I have to come and yeah.

Let's see, let's see if we can provide you some tips today. So yeah, actually clarity and lack of clarity is in the realm of perception and the realm of the mind, see? So in perception means there could be a lot of smoke in the room so I can't see everybody's eyes clearly, you know, or the lights go off so it becomes very unclear. So that's the trinity at the level of perception. The second level of clarity is in the mind where you could say, 'Yes, yes, my concepts are clear. I am awareness. I cannot be confused. It's pretty clear.' And then blurriness looks like, 'I have awareness, but I want this one.' You know, it's like just like it's just a bit all over the place. It can feel very blurry. Attention can be, you can feel like lack of clarity because attention is very restless, which is here, here, here. That can feel like very disorienting, almost like you're a roller coaster if your attention is playing like that. But I have some good news for you. The clarity that I am pointing to is independent of all of this. Whatever may be happening in the mind, whatever may be happening in the world, in any phenomenon, where I am pointing you to is always clear. And to get there, all you have to agree is not to take what the mind is proposing to be true. That's all. And that also not with the whole mind or something. Actually there's no such thing as the whole mind, just your next thought. When thought will come, what is that? That is the power of belief that consciousness itself has. And many of you report to me that 'I can't do it, it just happened,' this kind of thing. But then you are taking yourself already at the starting point to be something other than consciousness. If consciousness can't do it, then there's no chance, no, for anything. Consciousness, all happens in the will of consciousness. So you are this consciousness as being. You have the power of belief and you can allow to not believe that. You can allow it to come and go. You can remain in the unborn. Nothing can take this power away from you. Nothing can take this power away from you now. And it is easier to see if you don't make it a big project that needs to be done in a lot of time. If you just see that I'm just talking about the thought which is going to come now. See the next thought, just let it come and go. That's it. That's all I'm saying. And as you allow it to come and go in your heart, and the heart is apparent, then what you truly are is clear. And that clarity is never shaken. It's like Satguru presence is never shaken. So the need for clarity is still a reliance on the wrong instruments. Let it be blurry. Let your head be full of blur. But if you rely on the heart, it doesn't matter. If you don't have to take the road which has the traffic jam, you are fine. It doesn't matter, you see? So the mistaken idea that I can get some meaning for my head which can be of value to me keeps bringing us back to the head. You see, I was telling another child that actually what the mind hates the most is the lack of meaning, more than suffering, you see? So if it is up to the mind, it will pick suffering over the absence of narrative because it hates to... like what's happening with you right now. I will tell you something really interesting. What's happening with me right now? You see, mind is really interested in that kind of this story coming. It is religious. So it would rather be able to insert, 'Oh, I'm having a tough time, these things are really... I'm getting really shaken.' You see, all of these things compared to the absence of meaning about what is happening right now. And the absence of meaning mentally does not mean that you have a meaningless existence. Nothing can change the vastness and the beauty of your being ever. But don't try to squeeze it as if it is some juice that you can get in your mind. Are you with me? So allow your head to be blurry. Is there nothing else to you than your head? What else do you have beside? What else do you have? Is there existence only the existence of your head? I was telling Ahmed with you also the other day that you have sensation in your fingers. You have sensation?

Yeah, yeah.

Is that blurry?

Well, in the sense that I can't feel it. So if you look at it from the lens of the mind, is it? Then everything will seem... but look just for yourself. Like just, just do that. Just do that. Can you do that? Not doing it, do it. Just kick your finger at least myself.

Yeah, yeah. Can you experience the sensation in your finger? Is that blurry?

No.

So there is more to you than you give yourself credit for. It is not just the things in the head. So you can experience your leg, your arms, your neck, your... and that is not blurry. It's still happening within your being. You can experience the things in front of you, you see, as perception. It's not pleasing, but the need for clarity in our heads gets us attached to the state of it. So am I confused right now? Be confused. It's okay. It's just the tiniest aspect of your being. Your mind is the tiniest aspect of your being. To be confused over there, how does it matter to your leg? It doesn't matter to your hands. It doesn't matter. How does it matter?

When I say being confused, I also mean like it's almost like I feel I can't do anything to go out of the mind. Like I just feel trapped or dragged along with everything it says. Like there's no space to feel.

Mind is anything except your mind saying that? I don't know. Check, check. Now this is important to see whether these diabolical reports, which is that the mind is everywhere, you see, it does everything, I take it along—is it itself saying that? Or is there your leg is also saying that? Your fingers are also saying that? Who else is saying that in your being? That Mr. Mind, why you have to come along everywhere? I didn't invite you to this point.

The mind itself... like when I feel my hands, I feel also a lot of anxiety inside myself and it's very like attracting—not attracting, but it catches me. And it feels I can't properly feel my hands because I feel so much anxiety and this strong thought, 'Oh, I'm so trapped, I'm in such a big trouble, I don't know the way out.' That's the main story.

Like there's some guidance about thoughts and emotions that I shared on Facebook and Instagram yesterday or today, two days back, and that may be very helpful. Because the minute you label it as something, then you actually stop looking at it. Now something is happening, you see? Something is happening there and you know you've seen that. So that itself is a beautiful interplay. So there's some sensation playing out like that and then you're trying to experience the sensation of your hand without the intervention of your head. Everything is beautiful that you can see. You don't have to label it beautiful. You don't have to say, 'Oh, this is so beautiful.' I'm just speaking from what I'm seeing. But you can see for yourself that actually without saying, 'But this is anxiety, when it'll go?' You see, without the this uninvited guest to the party, everything in God's kingdom is so beautiful. And ultimately even that is. But does not jump the gun yet. You see what I'm saying?

I don't know.

So just see if you can see with me. Just play with your attention. And that which you're calling anxiety, let it come to your attention. Don't worry about it. Let it come to your attention. Don't have to resist it, fight it, that it should go away. This is going to help that none of this... let it be. Now it's like a shaking sensation. What is it like? A contraction? It's like fear everywhere, like feeling weak and...

So don't use the term fear and weak. Just drill down one level below that and say, is it shaky? What is the actual experience of it like? Meet it fully. May just fully be the innocence of a child who doesn't know the definition of it. So you have to explain like a child what is happening. Something is getting squeezed or something is feeling shaky, shaky. What is it that's happening? Did you know that your thoughts about your emotions are not your emotions? Can you notice that? All of you can see that. That your thoughts about your emotions are still thoughts. Emotions that are at a different level of your being. So don't give truth value to thoughts just because they are...

The innocence of a child who doesn't know the definition of it, so you have to explain like a child what is happening. Something is getting squeezed or something is feeling shaky, shaky. What is it that's happening? Hmm? Did you know that your thoughts about your emotions are not your emotions? Can you notice that? All of you can see that, that your thoughts about your emotions are still thoughts. Emotions are at a different level of your being. So don't give truth value to thoughts just because they are about emotion, because heart is just another perception. So being as empty or legal as possible, please, everything that appears for me.

So another way to say that is that nobody can actually find a solution to anxiety, but you can see that what you are experiencing right now is not bothering anybody. But that is real; it is a fluctuation in an aspect of your being. I'm not saying it's not shaking, but when you elevate the problem from here to here and say, 'How do I fix my anxiety problem?' you see, when we try to fix it at this level... as I am just saying, can you meet it absolutely and meet it fully for what it is? Then what happens?

So that which is witnessing these sensations—and I'm not speaking advertising—I feel this is like a problem because I can't feel this. What is aware, or identify it? Like when you ask, 'Is that which...' so where is it affected? I'm not able to... I don't know.

You're not able? You feel like you can't check on that?

I can check, but I cannot identify that which is aware. Like, or to see that it's not affected. I don't even know what it is. Like, I can say I am aware, but I don't...

Yeah, let's spend the next few minutes... yeah, spend a few minutes on this. So you see, you can conclude that you are aware. Yes, I know these sensations; I am the one who knows them and who can speak about them. Is it only because of that that you can confirm that you are aware? Because you can experience some perception? Or is it possible to confirm that even more directly? Are you aware now?

Yes, I'm aware, but maybe because I don't have any experience of this, it's just annoying. Like, yes.

Beautiful. Is there anything else like that where you can confirm without any experience of it, except conceptual knowing or perceptual knowing? Anything else?

But how could I know if it's not affected if I wouldn't experience it or feel it?

Yes, because you know it. This is the beautiful part of this. So you know that you are aware, and it's a different form of knowing. It is not, like you said, it's not an experiential phenomenon. Now, this you that is aware, you see, do you find any sort of taste to it? Do you find any shape to it? It doesn't take any time. It doesn't take any time unless you're using the wrong instrument. Just, it's like that. Does it have any shape?

It doesn't feel so clear. Like, something is not like this. Like, you say... I wish I could see what you see.

I'm sure you see it. This is very good. This is very good. You're sharing the frustration which many may be experiencing. No, but you're sharing it out now, so this is very good. So many may be feeling inside that actually I'm not experiencing this what he's saying, you see. But how am I confirming it? But because there are a hundred people confirming it, we better also confirm it. At least you are coming up and saying, 'Yeah, I don't know.' So, I know I'm aware, but it's not an experience. And because it's not an experience, how can I compare it with some other experience that I'm having? Isn't that what you're saying? How can I know it is not affected if I don't feel it? I don't know. I should feel that it's not affected. I don't know.

So let's go really slow now. You are aware. How do you know that? Okay, let me help you through every step. So, do you know that as a thought? 'I am aware. I've heard this so often, I'm aware, so I'm confirming I'm aware because I'm convinced I'm aware.' Is it a conviction?

No, it's kind of like a... I don't know. Yeah, it is like an experience but not really felt like...

Exactly. Ashtavakra says it is the only non-phenomenal experience. The only non-phenomenal experience. Why you say it's like an experience but not really like my experience is because every other experience you can say has a taste, has a quality. At least one quality: it was this big, or it was sweet, or it was scary. You can say some quality about it. But your Self is awareness only. 'I am aware.' You can't say anything. You don't meet it as an object. You're not finding anything big or small, you see? None of that is happening, and yet you're confirming it, not denying it.

There's also a doubt from the mind saying that I'm not really seeing it, you know? And it can't... no, like it says, 'I'm not really seeing like what you see.' You see a different thing when I...

Yeah, thank you for exposing that because many will say this. How can I confirm that it is the same discovery that you are having? It is the same discovery. It is the same discovery. It is impossible to have a different type of discovery when it comes to this because it is empty of quality. Can you have two different experiences of that which is empty of quality? The difference would be a difference in quality itself. But because what you are finding does not have a quality, the mind can say, 'Are you really experiencing or you're just making it up? Is this really the Self? How can you confirm?' But you don't have to dance to the tunes of the mind. The mind does not have an insight into this. So it will say, 'But you are not finding anything. There is no point to any of this.' So let your mind say whatever it is saying; you just stay with what I am pointing you to.

So this confirmation is coming from a deeper level than the mind or than perception, isn't it? Now, over there, are you lost about how to live or what to do? This deeper level which has the insight about the Self, is it just, 'I have insight about the Self, that's my one trick, I'm a one-trick pony and I cannot guide your life'? Is that the sense you get when you quote-unquote stay in that place where it is clear to you what you are? Can you not live from there also?

It's a very potential... okay, it's a very pertinent question because we feel like, 'Okay, now when I need to find myself, I drop my mind, I drop my reliance on perception, and it is apparent to me.' But this intuitive intelligence is the same intelligence that is running this entire universe, you see. So if you remain over there, it's not that you are ever lost about anything. Don't expect it to be like a superpower where you'll be able to predict outcomes of games and all and become a millionaire using that. But just in its simplicity, it's the same intelligence which tells the bird in which direction to fly in the first year of its life, you know, when it has to migrate. What intelligence is that? It tells the plant how to grow. It tells your heart how to beat. It's that intelligence which is running this whole universe, you see. How do I know that? Only from there. The mind can have a lot of notions for or against it, but what I'm speaking of is not from one.

So now you remain with that where it is clear to you that you are aware, and you will not have a moment of struggle in your life.

How can I say something? Sorry, because I feel like I'm... you went a step ahead. I don't know what to explain. Like, I feel good, maybe I'm speaking from the mind, but I just said I don't know how to say. Like, you say stay in this place, but I don't feel there is a place to stay in. I don't know.

It is in a way, it is in a way. But your words are very good today because this is exactly what everyone needs to hear. So when you leave the wrong instruments, you are with the right instrument. But there is no way to stay with the right instrument except to leave the wrong instrument.

But I feel, to be honest, I feel I'm very, very caught in the wrong instrument. Like, it's very... it has a strong hold on me. I don't know.

The instrument does not have that capability. It is you as consciousness that has the capability to pick which instrument you want to pick, you see. Now, because in the play of the human condition, as consciousness is playing as human, it may say... it may play with the notion of habit and, you know, therefore it may seem like it takes some time to get over the habit and things like that. But in reality, the mind can never have a hold on you, you see. Once you loosen the grip on it, there are no actual tentacles it has that can hold on to you, except the same old stories. Same ones.

I really wish I can see this and really, like, see it. I feel like, like it's a big key, let's say. Like, see it now.

Yeah, there is nothing that we call the mind except your next thought is the mind. There is nothing which can stop you from letting it come and go, if that's what you wanted to do. And to allow it to come and go is to not use the wrong instrument. That's all.

I don't know how to see this. I'm sorry. Okay, you still feel like it has a lot of power. Yeah, like also energetically, like it feels... when you said 'stay in this place,' I feel energetically like it takes effort and it's something very strong holding, like some shape or some energies inside very stuck, constricted. And staying in this place, it would make my heart stronger like this, but it takes time or I don't know.

Let's see. So let's try another experiment. So if... so I was not talking about staying in this place using your attention. I was just saying don't use the wrong instruments and you're automatically staying in this place. But just as an experiment with you, if I was to say to you, 'Just keep your attention in the heart region,' would that seem very tough? Very difficult?

It's difficult in the sense that, as I said, there is like a strong energy shaped in a certain way and holding my... I feel it has a power. Like, it speaks to me like, 'Oh, put your attention in your heart,' but it's not easy to do. Like, sometimes I'm doing it because it comes inside me like a stronger... I just need to do whatever, just do something. Yeah.

Okay, let's try it together for the next two minutes. You keep your attention in your heart and whatever you feel like is very strong happening to you, expose it to me. Let's see what it is.

So it's like energetically something feels like I'm in a straight jacket, you know? Like very tight, very contracted everywhere, and you can't breathe.

But to keep your attention itself, like in the... all the storm happening around it, does the attention get shaken up with that? I'm just asking you because I hardly propose these kind of experiments, but sometimes it may be helpful.

No, it's just when I put my attention inside, I also feel all these things more. Like, yeah.

Yeah, there's a natural tendency to try to relieve these tensions. But suppose that you had just that one job, to keep your attention in your heart, and then it is my promise that everything else will be taken care of. Would you feel like you could do this?

I can try.

Let's try this. Let's check this.

There's also the mind, like very strongly. It's a habit, not from now but always. It's always telling me I'm weak and I can't do anything, you know? And I believe these things.

That's why it's important to try this. And the trick is that if your attention goes away, then the idea is not to feel guilty or to say, 'Oh, but I said keep it there, I'm doing it so badly,' or 'I'm just not worthy,' or any of that nonsense. No need to. Just return back to the heart. Thank you for your patience. Okay, who else haven't done it for a bit? Let's go to Chanda.

Hello, Father.

Hello.

Thank you so much for calling me. So, Father, I told you that I had this tinnitus problem with my ear. So it's related to, I think, anxiety mentioned just what Devi was saying, but it's also migraine, so it's vascular. So when I do... it's also vascular, Father, I see. As a migraine, we have narrower veins, so the circulation is not as good as in general. It's an inherited condition. I think that's also what's causing the tinnitus. When I try to do the inquiry, I find that the tinnitus gets worse.

Okay, okay. Don't do the inquiry.

Okay, Father Ji.

I told you that I had this tinnitus problem with my ear, so it's related to, I think, anxiety mentioned—just what Devi was saying—but it's also migraine, so it's vascular. So when I do... it's also vascular, Father. I see as a migraine, we have narrower veins, so the circulation is not as good as in general. It's an inherited condition. I think that's also what's causing the tinnitus. When I try to do the inquiry, I find that the tinnitus gets worse.

Okay, okay. Don't do the inquiry. Okay, Father? Great. Then when you're not doing the inquiry, is there confusion about who you are, or is it apparent who you are?

No, it's apparent who I am, Father. I can say who and what brings me home. No, that's the word—brings me home. So that's... I'm all over the place right now, so there's lots of mixing going on. Also, I'm not being able to leave my personal god. Since I've had this personal god I worship for such a long time, I'm still holding on to that personal god, so it becomes a lot of 'I' now there.

Yeah, that's fine. I feel like we've talked about this before and that's fine. So it's then, if you're holding on to the personal god, hold on really tight and let everything become that one's problem.

Yes, Father. You had told me two pointers to hold on to, and I've been holding on to them since I left Bangalore. Last one was: see the auspiciousness in the auspicious. Yeah, I go to that several times a day and it's working very well for this one. And the other thing you said was natural and spontaneous. Stay natural and organic. Everything is natural, organic. What I do is, as a report, I wake up in the morning and I say, 'Okay, now let's see what God's going to bring to me.' Yeah, let the day and night unfold and come back to 'everything is auspicious' because they just see the auspiciousness of the auspicious. And so far, it seems to be working, Father. That's the only way I know how to surrender comfortably and just let things flow and unfold without it getting into my head. It's natural, natural. I don't make plans. I try and not... I don't make plans after meeting you in March last year. So someone says, 'Let's go here, let's travel here, you know, do you want this done? Should we do this on the 30th?' I'm like, 'Yeah, let's see, you know, go with the flow, let it unfold.' And I just then leave it to that God, whatever you bring to me.

Remember also that what I've said more often is that don't make either your plan. Like, to live spontaneously should not become a new plan, because that's also a plan, and you can get stuck in that mode also, saying, 'I don't plan,' but that's a plan to not plan, you see? So you can notice that. You can notice how a new plan can be: 'No planning is the new plan.' So to be empty of either position—of planning or of not planning, you see—is the most auspicious, is the most spontaneous, is the most auspicious. But the minute you say, 'My plan is to just be spontaneous,' then that's still a plan. Are you with me in this? You can notice. So we can go from one position saying, 'I have to plan everything, what's on my calendar every half an hour is planned out,' to the other, like, 'No, no, I don't believe in planning, like, I have no plan.' But that's a plan to not have a plan. It's still a projection into the future that 'I'm not going to do this.' That's still a plan. So, neither position, and full openness. So in that openness, if God's grace is opening the calendar and writing this, this, that's happening. If He's not doing any of that for years, then that's happening. That is true spontaneity without the plan to be spontaneous. It can be very confusing to the mind; that's why I repeated it a few times. No position is spontaneity. But spontaneous as a way of planning or way of life can become a position. And that can happen with a lot of things. Many people feel like, 'Oh, I'm just a rebel, I'm just this, I just live spontaneously, you know, I just like... I don't care about the world and its norms, I'm just this.' But that's a new set of norms that they've created for themselves to be rebellious. So if you were to ask me, 'Do I plan or don't I plan?' Like, sometimes there are meetings, you see, and sometimes there are not. But I'm open to whatever life shows up. It's not something that the mind can grasp, but hopefully we bypass our mind in this conversation, because the mind is saying, 'Tell me, should I plan or should I not?' You see, the mind can have that kind of thing. But I'm just saying that, empty of either of these positions, like, whatever has to unfold...

And so I see it, Father. I see my taking shape because I'm holding on to that pointer of natural and spontaneous, but it's the same thing—I'm taking a position.

Okay, so that removes the naturalness and the spontaneity from it. In trying to be natural and spontaneous—not always, of course—it's very important, like, let the day unfold as God's grace. Beautiful. It's very nice. So I'm not chopping it fully, but just be careful that you don't make a house on that sort of idea.

Got it. But I also want to surrender to you an old relationship with a sister-in-law which has been a very difficult relationship in our home, and it's surfaced in our family, in our lives right now, and it's bringing with it lots of shakiness. And I'm surrendering it to you, so you may please take care of it for us. Thank you. I believe some house is being prepared for you in Bangalore?

Yes, Father, I'm coming. Hey! So I feel that's... that you're calling me, so I'm coming. I've been calling since then. Thank you so much. Thank you, and thank you so much for your blessing and grace, Father. Thank you.

Okay, can we have the other one? We can also have just one of these. No, not for today, but for next time. This is okay for now. I feel like we had enough of the spotlight on the... a little bit of flexing, cheap y'all. Okay, who haven't I spoken to in a bit? Let's go to Sylvia. Hello, Father. Do you hear me well?

I can hear you well, yes. I felt to come, but well, I have no idea exactly what to share, but in a way I wanted to meet you again. Yes. In the last days, all kind of sensations came—different, good, bad. And yes, I stay with the pointings and your pointings as much as I can. Maybe it's good to share that sometimes I feel that like something else is needed, like I don't know what, like sensations...

Okay, let me recap what I've heard so far. So all these sensations are coming. Some are called good, some are called bad, although in the sensation itself, it is not saying 'I'm good' or 'I'm bad.' So that judgment is maybe being made somewhere. But the good and bad sensations are coming, and you try to stay with the pointings of Guruji and what you've heard in satsang here, and you feel like it's not complete or something more is required, what you said so far?

No, in a way, at the moment maybe something is shaking and it's like catches, like I become identified.

So how would you identify with the sensation? Sorry, is it possible to identify with the sensation? No, it's like... let's try. So you can see this hand; suppose this is a sensation. Identify with it. Identify with it. Can you identify with it? Is identification to just put attention on it? To identify, that cannot be. They said this attention is not identification, but you need something else to identify. What is that? So what else do you need to identify the sense of personal identity, like an entity with...?

Yeah, but create how? What would you create?

A thought or an image. Yes. And the thought shows up. In the showing of the thought, now there are two things: there's the sensation and there's a thought. Many times the sensation also vanishes; it's just the thought. The thought comes, the thought is there. Now, just by attention on the thought, you identify. Sometimes seems like automatic.

So now what that would mean is that consciousness has no control over what it is identifying with. And also then the masters have been quite silly in telling us that 'don't identify' or 'don't go to the stream of thought' or 'keep quiet' or 'don't believe your next thought.' All the masters have constantly been pointing us to that, but they don't realize that it just happens automatically? So what is the point of all these pointers? What could be happening here? Like everyone said, at least in this family of masters, everybody said 'don't identify' in one way or the other. So why are they saying that if it's automatic? Somebody should be told by one person. So something wasn't missing somewhere. What do you feel it could be? Like, okay, let's try the experiment of doing it automatically. Let the thought come, give it your full attention, and show me when belief happens automatically. Yes, simple experiment. If it did happen automatically, it would work. Can we do this? Let's try this. Let the thoughts come. Just with attention, you have to identify, but belief has to happen automatically. Then when you succeed, see what's happening. When you bring it in the full light of your attention, you see it is not possible. But what happens in day-to-day life? Because our attention is dissipated and being like unconscious, mildly unconscious for the moment, you can feel like, 'Oh, but I'm already stuck into that. I didn't want to believe, but it's already there.' But that itself is a good starting point—to start there instead of beating yourself up about what has happened in the past and say, 'But it just happened automatically.' It's a good way to start. Okay, say now, 'Okay, I'm caught into this, I don't know how it happened,' because it can feel like somewhere crosses where it is like... it can feel like that. But the good thing is, because you've been in satsang, you at least notice it and you say, 'Oh, this happened to me, I don't know how it happened. I just have to not imagine.' So don't beat yourself up about any of that. Just start now, in the same way that we check now. So let's see if it can happen automatically again. Say, 'Okay, let's look,' and then you look like that. You see, it's just not possible. It's just not possible. That's it.

I heard something that could be said and like I resonated, and maybe it's linked with this subject: remain unassociated. And yes, as you said and you exposed something, like you sometimes is trying to remain unassociated and it's like something stiff and not true.

Actually, it's simpler, because there is actually no difference between 'don't identify' and 'remain unassociated.' It's like two ways of saying the same thing. He says that we get used to a particular way of hearing something, then we look for some variety, so then masters say it in a different way. But actually it is the same thing. To remain unassociated is the same like to not identify. To become associated is to identify. You see that? Like, what is the distinction for you in terms of 'don't identify' and 'remain unassociated'?

It's the same. Like, yes, I feel like maybe it's just like the same one who is trying to say it's not enough and maybe just to drop. But maybe...

Okay, now when you drop, is what you are apparent? Yes or no? Don't know. Peer pressure. Is it apparent? When I say no peer pressure, I just mean that independent of whether others are nodding or shaking the head, just see for yourself. Are you expecting something to happen?

Okay, it did. Yes, it's something like this. But what are you waiting for? Whose being is there? Whose presence is that which is in your own heart?

It's the same being. I don't know how to call it.

We can call it... what would your preferred name be for that being?

Yes, I can say God, God's presence. It's about presence which is there.

What could be missing then? What else could we need? To be honest, like even like the second recognition, it's like happening many times. It's like something's acting like it's not, or like a block, a resistance, blockage.

Yes, but all blocks, all blocks are after it.

The presence is that which is in your own heart. It's the same being. I don't know how to call it. We can call it—what would your preferred name be for that being?

Yes, I can say God, God's presence. It's about presence which is there.

What could be missing then? What else could we need?

To be honest, even like the second recognition, it's like happening many times. It's like something's acting like it's not, or like a block, a resistance, a blockage.

Yes, but all blocks—all blocks are after it, or are they more intimate than it?

Not so intimate. It's not choice, but...

So how can something like a stone kept two miles away, how can it block you? What can block? What is it blocking? Your existence? Your awareness? What is getting blocked?

It's something like at the physical level maybe, or like a behavior level.

Okay, now tell me something which is not about your perception or your mind. What is clear to you independent of whatever you may be perceiving or thinking?

That I am here. Yes. And the 'here' is—it's not physical or limited.

Okay. Is it in this universe? Are you here in this universe? Does the 'I am here' mean you are in this world?

No, it's the other way around.

Yeah. So, are you in this universe or no? That part which is not in the universe, how are you aware of that?

I am that. Yes. But how are you—how do you know that? Did you see it like that?

No, I can see it. It's independent of seeing. So that knowledge which is independent of sight, that looking which doesn't need senses or any recognition, that is the recognition of the Self. Now, can there be something in this universe which doesn't have any quality or attribute like length, breadth, height, duration?

I don't understand.

Yes, like this is in this universe, this phone. How do you know there's a phone in this universe? Because it has a shape, it has a color, it has some other symbols you can tell. Now, in what way are you in this universe? Is it in the same way as the phone is?

No, no. But like the body is here.

And which body? Which body is yours? How was this body that you're seeing in front, how is it different from that body that you seem to see like that? So when you are in this universe, you are a measurable object like the body is—is that what you're saying?

Something like this.

Whatever is measurable is miserable. Now, how are you the body in this world? How are you not the space? How are you not the rest of the world? And if you are, then how are you any of those? What is your intuition telling you?

Like, it's a tendency to go to the mind, but...

Yeah, so don't go to the mind. I mean, if your attention goes to the mind, let the mind say whatever it wants. Don't bother with it. It's fine. But what is your intuition? Can you repeat again? Sorry.

Yes. In what way are you in the manifest universe? We figured already how you are in the unmanifest. We looked at that and said that it cannot be perceived, but it is apparent that my Nirguna aspect, my attributeless Self, is not in this universe. I can't perceive it, but I know it intuitively. Now, in the same source of knowledge which is intuition, how are you in this universe? First you said the body, but was that coming intuitively?

No, it's more like an observation, physical something, because it seems central to the view of the world. It feels like the sensations that I'm experiencing are of this body, although there is no way to confirm that.

It can feel like, you see. Now remember that 'feel like' reality is the illusion, because it only feels like reality. So Maya feels like it is real but is not real. So don't go with what it feels like. Go to a deeper source of observation or knowledge, which is your own intuition, which has already concluded that you are beyond this universe at one level. Now we're just saying, what about the manifest, the Saguna aspect of yourself? In what way is it in this universe? Is it playing as one body? Is that what your intuition is telling you or no? When a dream appears to you, which body are you in the dream?

Once I dreamed that I was in this body.

So yes, but are you in the dream? The rest of the bodies that come, where are they then if you're only that body? What do you mean like 'I was in this body'? Is that your perspective was through the lens of these eyes, isn't it?

Yes, that's it.

But does that mean that you are an object contained within this body, like behind the eyes or something? No. But you're saying that in a way. Is it that 'I was in this body' means the body is made of flesh and blood? Can it contain something which is not flesh and blood? That is not objective. It cannot. Just like the glass cannot contain something which is beyond this universe or something like that. And how can the body contain it? In what way are you in the body?

Okay, I don't know.

So stay with that 'I don't know.' It's beautiful. And then your insight will flower. If you 'I don't know' means my head is empty. I don't know means my head is empty, and that head being empty is very useful for true insight to flower. Unless you fill up your head too much with 'I don't know.' So sometimes you're full in my head, 'I don't know.' So if it's just a communication that 'I don't know,' it's conceptual emptiness, then truly just in your heart the insight will flower from there as to what is your true position in this world.

Can I say something? One more thing which comes over and over again. Like, this body and the story and all, it's so intimate. How can like—intimate is what? No, in a way, no. Did you say no?

Yes, like known means perceived. What do you mean by known? Like what I am, it's like silent and it's like not perceived in a way. But in this part, okay, just look at this question and you can contemplate this: What does it mean to know? Does to have a concept of something mean you know it? To me, to have a perception of something is to know it. What is the meaning of known? And then on the basis of knowing this knowing, if you're creating truth value of intimacy or distance, then it is very important to first clarify what this knowing is. What does it mean to know?

When I said that, it's like how I learned in school. This is this, this is that, this is physical, this...

Yeah, so now we are deconstructing all of those ideas from school and we are directly looking at some of these things. So when we say 'I know something,' sometimes we say 'I have a concept of something' and sometimes we say 'I saw as a perception.' But in Satsang, everything that comes and goes is not real. So what would true knowing mean? What would reality mean? What do we know really?

Yes, in a way I feel just one thing, but it's not one, but this...

So one final tip I have for you is that the insight that you're having is very good. Don't give it to the mind to communicate. Even if no communication is happening, it's good. But sometimes I feel like I need to translate it through the lens of the mind, make it a conceptual understanding and then speak it out. Allow it to flow if it has to, like the words of Satsang where no mental intervention is needed. It's like the heart insight is speaking through the mouth. And you have had enough insight to observe this process. Sometimes what can happen is that we feel like that is the only way, that is the only way that I have to see from the heart or know from the heart but communicate through the filter of the mind. But you don't have to communicate through the filter. If your intuitive intelligence can beat your heart, it can move your mouth. It means just trust. It's coming now. Thank you.

So, okay. Feel like I'm done today. Go on to see something.

Thank you all so much for being in Satsang today.