What Can Shake Up Your Being by Itself, Without the Use of a Thought? - 3rd March 2023

So what are you saying? You're saying that it cannot get mixed up, is it?

No, no. With, for example, with the hand, it's sort of like an innocent perception.

Okay, so the hand is an innocent perception. Uh, what about suppose the angry lion came in front of you? Could it get mixed up with an angry lion, my being?

Uh, no. But with the sensations of the fear.

Okay, don't they no longer are perceptions, or what has happened with the fear?

They're perceptions, but somehow there is the sort of like some seed of belief still that they are with me.

Yeah, so if you were to mix... okay, so at the God level, at one level we can say that everything is already mixed up in your view because everything is within your being. Or we can also say nothing can actually touch your being. Space in which even this space arises actually remains untouched no matter what the experience is. But somehow, which you said, somehow it gets mixed up when it is an emotion. That somehow is worth investigation. That is one of the central things we share in satsang, which is: what is that somehow? Is there a question? Was that somehow like how the process goes? What is the way in which this somehow—a perception like every other perception which is innocent—then seems to get mixed up, or I seem to get mixed up in them? What is that process of somehow?

That's um, I have no idea. It's impossible to see even in meditation, like trying to turn the gaze towards something and there's nothing there.

So let's experiment with this because this is key, you know? The key to all spirituality, which is that Bhagwan is at that till I-amness, which is being. Till it is just I am, no trouble. When it is I am something, which means I-amness gets mixed up in identity, then that is where all the trouble starts. And if there was no mechanics to this which you could then disconnect, you see, then satsang would not be valuable. But to see that there is a possibility to disengage in that process, we must first identify what that process is. So I am feeling upset, or I am feeling angry, or I am feeling frustrated. How does that get added to just I-amness itself? So let me try and guide you with this slowly. Pick any sensation that you may be experiencing in your body, and if you can't find a single sensation in your body, then take any perception outside this evening, outside. Take any of that and see if just with your attention—with your attention—it can seem to get mixed up with you. Because most people are trying to solve it with their attention: 'Let me not bring my attention to this, let me not bring attention to thoughts, let me not bring my attention to feeling.' But we are first experimenting whether attention is enough for the mixing up to happen.

Currently no, but currently the state is I am both abiding as myself and there are perceptions flowing. So it's like a two-way street to me and to attention, and because that is the case, the inherent nature of the being is more pronounced.

How are you abiding as yourself?

By being here.

Okay, so I know what's good, I know you know what's going to come next, so yeah. Which is what? Can you guess what I'm going to ask?

No, no I cannot.

Is it the being here through attention that you're being attentive right now? Is that what you mean?

No, attention is allowed. There is something solid like some sort of a light behind the perception.

I see, I see. So try to not be here. With what tool would you try? With what instrument would you travel? If it's not with attention, then with what?

I don't know.

Well, when you... because you said that right now I'm here, so it's all right. So therefore there is some memory of times when you're not here. So in those times what happens that you are able to conclude that in those times I am not here, or not just being?

The peaceful state of the beingness is temporarily disturbed, I guess.

So are you calling the presence of peace the fact that you're just here, the presence of a feeling of peace?

Yes, I think it's connected with that.

But the experience of the presence of the feeling of peace is also gathered through attention, isn't it?

Yes.

So then it is not talking about that which is the source of even attention like you said, but it is about something which is in front of attention in that way. But what can we say organically about that from which even attention seems to arise? Nothing. What can you say about that? How do you even... so what you're implying is that that does not change, which is anything that changes is the perception, you see, and perceptions are perceived through attention. So when you say right now my being is just here, is it possible for it to be something else then?

With nothing... I mean that I have no method, that's it.

To do what?

I cannot jump with attention to myself, but I'm already there.

But what would not... what is the difference between not being there and being there?

No difference. I'm always there.

Go to where you give up very quickly on that when I was going to help deconstruct a lot of things using that position. Okay, so let me propose what I was going to propose, and we're just having a friendly conversation together. We're just looking at how things seem to be. So if I was to say to you that no matter what shows up in this realm of perceptions, independent of belief in thought, you see, independent of belief in thought, it cannot seem to get mixed up with your being. This is very helpful for everyone to hear because this will put our focus in the right place, put the focus of our spirituality in the right place. So what I'm proposing then is that it doesn't really matter to your being what emotion is showing up. It doesn't matter to your being what person is showing up in front of you. It doesn't matter to your being whether you are in a desert or I see snow. To your being, it is unaffected, unmixed, no matter what the perception may be. But it seems to be—and 'seems to be' is operative over there—it seems to be effective when a thought is believed in. And belief is to include it in our story, in our narrative in some way. Can we experiment with this? Because I know the mind will already be screaming saying, 'No, no, but I'm over my thoughts, it is just some energy or something.' So let's try bringing whatever can come to our attention and see if being can seem to get mixed up just with attention. And even the idea which was that right now I'm just here, I'm completely fine, but at other times I'm not just here. If I was to propose to you it's all just a function of identification with thought and not with anything else, what is your experiment with that? What can shake up your being by itself without the use of a thought? How many of us feel that being can get mixed up or identified without a thought, without response? So are you saying that it doesn't matter what shows up in your life, you can be empty of suffering? Really amazing. So it doesn't matter what is the state of your relationships, what is the state of a bank account, what is the state of your physical body, what is the state of your spiritual progress or the search for or whatever? Are you saying that none of these things in by themselves matter to your being? They matter or they don't matter by themselves organically without mental collaboration or contamination? What can we see?

It matters a lot.

Okay, let's go to something. I'll come back to you. Can you hear me? Also be unmuted. I feel like we can have a conversation in this way also. Yes, my dear. So Satyam is saying that something casual which has the ability and the potency to get being mixed up in that perception by itself without a thought. Can you take an example? So what is my attempt here? My attempt is that we are convinced that it is a situation in life or a life event or some other person which has made us bound, which has made us suffer, which is our struggle, which is our limit. What I am proposing, although it may sound simple, is that it has nothing to do with any of that. No matter... it doesn't have to do with your emotion, I mean it doesn't have to do with bodily pain, it doesn't have to do with relationship, it doesn't have to do with the state of the world in any way. It only depends on one thing, which is whether you're believing your next thought or as a reality is something. Okay, you also come, Helen. Where are you? Put your hands... yeah. I am going to propose to you that it is the opposite. Is it that conceptually all these things seem to matter so much, but in reality they don't? So let's see.

Hello, Father.

Hello. Okay, so what can come by itself can get you into a constricted sort of position as being?

Okay, conceptually I'm in agreement with you totally. And when I am sitting in beingness, it seems obvious that nothing can touch it, no problems, no matter how mad the world or mad environment. Yes, total agreement. But the actual practice of it, it's like it's very difficult to actually see this as unreality.

I see, yes. Okay, let's go slowly. Which part is difficult?

Um, the part of having an environment where I'm not constantly bombarded by mind madness.

Yes, so if you're constantly bombarded... suppose your mind was constantly bombarded, or the mind is creating this bombardment actually. So you're talking about the bombardment of thought, so you're talking about the bombardment in the environment?

The environment which... well, I live with my mother who has got Alzheimer's and is getting worse and worse. So the actual feeling of absorption of this... I know I wouldn't feel it if it wasn't within me also, but the absorption of this extreme madness which is like on a click and just manifest. It's dealing with that on a day-to-day basis. So I'd say it's my mind, but it's also within my environment. Being able to actually... sometimes I can draw back, but the reality is it's rare to draw back.

Okay, thank you for sharing that. So are you saying that even without you believing at all, sometimes the situation at home or wherever is so much that even without believing in a thought you can suffer energetically? Maybe not, maybe you're right, not believing a thought, but somehow it's there energetically. I don't know, it's like it feels constantly there.

Can you invite that sort of energy? Don't worry, I'm with you. So invite that energy and see if the energy by itself can do anything to you.

I'm inviting that energy now because it's on a fine-tuned spring. Yeah, I'm inviting that energy now.

Yeah, and the task is that just with the energy itself, you must take yourself to be limited and therefore suffer.

Actually, um, it feels it's kind of like it's going to my heart by speaking with you. And it feels like it's one thing is transforming in my heart, something good, like... yeah.

Yes, very good. Because you're seeing through the trick of the mind. And the trick of the mind is to convince you that it is not the mind which is causing you trouble, it is your life or the energy, the situation at home or whatever else. But what I'm proposing is that you are constantly in the presence of God, which is fully apparent.

It's kind of like, um, it's going to my heart by speaking with you, yeah. And it feels like it's, um, one thing is transforming in my heart, something good like, uh, yeah.

Yes, very good, because you're seeing through the trick of the mind. And the trick of the mind is to convince you that it is not the mind which is causing you trouble; it is your life, or the energy, or the situation at home, or whatever else. But what I'm proposing is that you are constantly in the presence of God, which is fully apparent, empty of identification with the government. And there's nothing else that can remove that apparency except believing a thought. And if we can zero in like that, then the mind has no chance, you see? Because the mind's whole game is to convince you, "No, who is that one? Is this one? It's because of that that I'm having trouble," you see?

Yeah, I can say so. He's... it's too much to handle when really... so what is it? No, it is this, it is that.

Yes, yes. And it's belief in that particular thought. "Yes, but it's too much to handle." Yes, because I see it, the handler, the individual handler, is gone. After believing in that thought, before that, there is no individual like that who has to handle anything, you see? And that That One handles it best, I see it, you see? Now, if there was an individual who could handle life or try to handle life, that one would always fail because life is too vast for anyone to be able to handle, you see? Life is a pure expression of God itself, and nobody's ever been able to handle God. No humans have the power to handle God. So our egoic attempt, without realizing that it is egoic, is to try and play God in our life, which is our attempt to try and handle our life. Only one can handle our life, that is God.

But just... everything that comes out of my mouth is so fake. That's why I haven't come up, because I just don't like... everything I say is fake.

And it's true. Allow your heart to speak and although the words will not capture reality in an authentic sort of way fully, it is still a good use of this instrument called the body to allow it to be in service to God's presence or your heart.

Yes, yes. It seems so obvious as you're speaking. It seems so obvious what you say is true. I concur.

Who's concurring? With your mind? There's a deeper place. Yes, yes. I can't really predict when you finish, but what I'm saying is that under the operation of the mind, the body instrument seems to operate as if... or Consciousness playing as if it is under the operation of the mind, then expressed in a body, and swimming seems to be a conveyor of that way of life which is limited and, you know, between birth and death and just a bundle of flesh. But living in the light of God, in the light of Atma within you, this body then becomes an instrument for satsang. It becomes an instrument to share what's like that. That's all that the switch is. Thank you, Father.

The project is that you have to remain in pure perception, you see? Which means that don't label anything, don't make any story about anything, don't invent any entity that doesn't exist. Just remaining in pure perception with full attention to whatever you want. Try to suffer. Crying on everyone, this experiment is for you. Like memory, through anything it has, that you let anything come into your attention, but you have to be troubled just with your attention and no building. But let's try an experiment. Anyone who wants to unmute themselves can unmute. Let's see if we can make this a big satsang call. Hello, hello. Can you hear me? Okay, now let's try again. Can you hear me?

It's... it's so difficult now. Something is getting sucked into the stories. I can't... I can't stay with myself.

Okay, okay. So just take it one... your job is just to take it one second by one second, okay? You're not running away from anything. Just tell me, what is your direct experience right now?

I'm here.

You're here. And now?

I'm still here.

Okay. And what... what is there which is so troublesome right now?

This movement going into the issues of my life, you know...

No, no, that's too fast for me. So right now, what is there? Don't tell me what is happening, just describe what you are perceiving. Don't explain it, just describe it. You see the difference? When you say, "I'm getting stuck in the issues of my life," that is an explanation about what you're doing. I want to know: "I am experiencing a constriction in my throat region" or something like that. What is the actual experience?

A little tightness in the stomach.

Tightness in the stomach. Okay. And what is that affecting? Now, the voice was choppy, can you say again?

There's a... there's a... there's a pouring of tears out, some... some sort of grief.

Okay. Now, in what space is all of this being experienced?

I can't... I can't say what this is, but there is some space which is here.

And is that space getting affected by what is showing up in it?

Not... not... not really. Yeah, it really is the point, really. I know it seems to be the whole... "seems to be" is the untruth satsang is meant to cut. The seeming with the Leela, the seeming. It seems it's affected, but actually it's not.

Yes, actually it is not. The seeming only happens when you believe a thought.

My question I wrote to you there that the thing is how not to get sucked into it, the thought.

Okay, first let's see how we get sucked into it. So first we need to get sucked into it with attention, you see? Yeah, with all our attention. Suppose our attention is fixated on the thought. Is that for us to suffer? Just with attention on a thought, try to bring your attention to a very troublesome... usually our face becomes like that. Okay, then no, just with attention, not enough. So then what else is needed?

The... the belief in that story.

Belief in the story. And if you were to pick between what is more difficult: you have to withdraw attention or belief? So if you had to withdraw... if I said you have to withdraw attention from a particular thought, "Don't think of a monkey," or you have to withdraw belief from a thought, "Don't believe that there's a monkey in the room," which is easier? Should I repeat? Okay, let's make it simpler. If I say to you, "Don't think of a banana," what happens? It shows up. So attention is difficult. If I say, "Don't believe you're a banana," easy. So attention is much more difficult, you know? It's like a crazy monkey racing. The more you try to control it, the more it jumps around from place to place. Belief is simple, or simpler. Immediately, yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Belief to put grace and please to use the ability to give birth to something, to insert it into a narrative.

Yeah, so I understood that this is happening to me and I understood what this is, even I understood what he's trying to say, all those correct. I am able to, like we were doing that day, I'm able to translate this moment into a narrative which is an accurate representation of what is the best way to live. So only we will live like some people move to women or something like that and they say, "What you guys doing in Bangalore? There's no way to live, you must try this, that is the only way to live." So that's what I'm trying to tell you.

Yes, no, it's good. So that's exactly what I'm trying to tell you, that try it this way. This is the only way to live. Don't understand, be complete. Another word for us, no. If I say yes, okay, repeat of an understanding. What did you see? Be a banana, which is how to be, only to believe you also win the match, done. So versatility, or be a body. Okay, let's get it closer to her. If I said to you, "Be a body," how would you do it? How many feel automatically? So just be used to be a body, be your body. But how would you, like, be your body? Because that is the most popular belief. How would you do it? I am your other body, just I am the body, just I'm just am. Now, suppose you have to act like you are a body, what would you have to do? Can you see this? It's not possible. Even this conditioning that "I am the body" that no spiritual seekers are trying to get rid of is not organically there, it's just... so there's no difference in trying to be a banana and trying to be a body in terms of mechanics of it, not in terms of the popularity. Yes, exactly. In the same process of attention and belief to thought, you have to go to the head for both. Okay, how to make a thought mind? Okay, so thought care, make it yours. Okay, it is not saying I have no thought. There's a thought we come, how to make it yours? Even for that you need the thought. I need to wear a thought that I am...

First I want to clarify that this is a big confusion around the I-thought, that I have to get rid of the I-thought, you see? That only when the I-thought is gone... so to be rid of the I-thought is to remove every reference from "I," that's all. And you cannot refer to "I" as anything at all, you're free from that I-thought. It is not some special superhero song. Many of us feel like, "I have... I'm free from these thoughts, Father, but what about any of us have this?" Good question. Misunderstanding from reading, it's a misunderstanding. And if he was here, hopefully he'd tell you the same thing, that the I-thought is any thought with a reference to "I." And if you're empty of all references, like the Ribhu Gita is trying to achieve by telling you "not this, not this, not this, not this," then that's the end of the I-thought. There's no special thought like, "All right, now you dealt with all the other thoughts, the final warrior at the gate is the I-thought, now deal with me." The presence, yes, we come like... like I promise I thought reading that my presence is an adjective, it's something. Yes, yes, exactly, something that I can understand exactly without that. And the mind is to convince you as presence that you are not presence, you are an entity, including that, because we can start to get stuck in that also. "I don't know anything, I don't know anything," but you know that to neither position. It's not as difficult as it sounded. Does it feel like just be empty? I'm telling you to be empty, not the mind to be empty. The mind can keep proposing its position: "I have to be this way or that way," you see? It will sound very reasonable, so that either it has to be like this or like this. You say, "Get lost, I don't have to be this way." Any... any reference to "I," yes. Reference to "I" is only possible through thought. It is saying neither this, nor that, nor the other. Don't grasp at an either, no matter how truthful it only is trying to build your spiritual ego through spiritual understanding. You have to become fully empty, sheer humility, pure innocence. But you have to also to say that the thought in his mind, you need to add another thought which makes that clear. Too much work, too much work to live. So this one's are not even, not even, not even. It's not even, not even, not even, nothing. Just get out of that planet.

Um, yeah, I just want to share or explore this. I was starting to feel something come up like, "Oh, it's important, I need to check the system," because that's how I learned earlier. That last night I decided down planning, like the summer you might want to go to Safra and maybe I'll like hitchhike back to church. And then... and then the mind was like, "It's not okay to be planning in your life." And then I was... I was actually going to ask you, like, my question was going to be, "Is it okay to still be planning?" It's actually still this subtly like creating a sense of the interesting, yeah. Or someone else has it that even when they say, "I don't want to plan," that's still a plan. Yeah, yeah. "Is it... so it's not okay to be planning? I have to be abiding," still a plan. Yeah, and exactly. But even having to ask about it, it's still like creating the sense of like someone who can do it right or do it wrong. And like that one is just enough, still the non-existent one that like still, you know, pretending to be real and that it has a problem, a serious problem is a question that it needs to ask. Anytime you find yourself getting too serious about anything, okay, so yeah, we're just not that important because there's so much seriousness. Nobody cares, including your being, including everybody. There's nobo...

Having to ask about it, it's still like creating the sense of like someone who can do it right or do it wrong. And like that one is just enough still, the non-existent one that like still, you know, pretending to be real and that it has a problem, a serious problem, is a question that it needs to ask. Anytime you find yourself getting too serious about anything, okay, so yeah, we're just not that important because there's so much seriousness. Nobody cares, including your being, including everybody. There's nobody who cares enough about whatever you're thinking. That's a good trick, that's a good tip. Well, it is, but what should I do? Who cares? It's just the mind comes. She is so different on Zoom. She was so seriously listening to everything I said for how many years before coming here, sometimes. Okay, so there is a physical hand. Come, come to you forever.

Oh, Namaste, Father. This is the perfect satsang, the perfect satsang for right now because here I'm doing another, and I have you on mute because I have like 55 registrations to manage and like I've got to get it done by 8:30. And yes, you know exactly. And all these yogis are like responding, being like, 'I'm pregnant and I need these accommodations,' and 'I haven't heard from you yet,' and 'What's going to happen? When does our retreat start? We still don't know the detail.' You know, all of this stuff. Like, I'm just like editing. And here I am in satsang and this thing needs to get out in half an hour, but I just want to be with you. And there's all of this like pressure, and I'm taking it very seriously.

This, that, and everything else will slowly or not, like flow or not. There's a problem with the word 'flow' because it sort of depicts some efficiency or productivity or something like that, but that's not the way I mean flow. Whatever, whatever is unfolding is flow. Come on, there are 55 people waiting for you. Hurry up already! It's like, you know what it feels like? It feels like, you know that story that Guruji gives about like there can be a million people coming to hug you and you don't need to hug them, basically. Correction: if this is activating the whole 'I need to be responsible' all this stuff, I spoke to you, I don't know, a month ago that apparently has changed nothing. Look at me, I'm like a mess again, you know.

Thank you. Exactly. I hadn't seen that. You're right. Thanks, everybody. They're all like, 'You're welcome.' With our last interview here to serve with all we are. Not having fun, we're just helping you. No, absolutely. It's very, very serious. Yeah, very serious. What am I going to do? I haven't changed a bit. Oh yeah, what is happening with my progress? What is happening? Exactly. What do I do about the checker who keeps asking? Still there. This love it. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes, I've got it. Feels so good to be able to bring this into satsang, to bring the mess in and just thank you. Seeing through and you know, thank you. Thank you for that, for this grace, for your grace and the whole Sangha's. Just thank you.

So that the point is not to feel better. You called me out on that over Discord and it was just right, because then that can become a thing. I bring it to everyone and then we now feel better and then let me go back to my nonsense, basically, because now I feel better. That 'feel better' is also the nonsense. I mean, so the notion this is what satsang is about is not true. It may happen as a byproduct or not. And that is what I've been emphasizing. The whole thing about satsang is really not for you. It is for you to become in service to God. So to allow God's light to shine is the first way to be in service to God. What does it seem to get contaminated by? Any notion of me, any 'I' thought. God's light is shining through you whether you like it or not, just organically. Can you imagine yourself without the light of being? You'd just be like a zombie, not even that. It's what life is, an aspect of God. Now, the only way to cover it up is through the dark sunglasses of the mind. This is literally what I've been saying, exactly, maybe in these words for 12 years. Especially today, satsang is something like a throwback from really easy. It's only about your mind. The trouble is only about your mind. And also within your mind, it is only about your belief in one thought. That's all that this is about. One thought. About 12 years I said this, and what is the usual response? 'But I think it can't be that simple.' They don't say the word 'I think,' but 'It can't be just that. Must be something else. How will that help my relationships? How will that help me find God?' Is it the me, meaning next?

And I can see something inside like right now, it's kind of like sort of swirling and busy and trying to avoid you. And this whole, I can't quite describe it, but it's seen in this. It's not like, yeah, it's not this problem itself. The swirling itself, what can it do to you? Nothing. I mean, absolutely nothing. Yes, it's just, and we also got to set a position like, uh, you have to be in satsang today and here with Ram pressing because, you know, this is important. For 55 students are unimportant. Nobody is saying that, sir. So that cannot become a new position. I'm just saying that what is the way to determine what is best?

If it comes from God. No, I mean, if it comes from God. So right now I'm just like, this is all that there is, is just this feeling together, you know. That comes from God. No, if it comes from God, yes. Who's that? Suppose we lived in a world where we have come to this point when she said God, like he said, 'If it comes from God.' We're talking about God. I mean, what a privilege that something can come from God. What an honor that something can come from God. So we must continue to have the wonder about that. Don't wonder about them. You can either come from mind or it can come from God. I mean, what a privilege, what an absolute honor it is that we can say in our lives things can come from God. I am absolutely serious about this. And to show the power of that, an entity is like, it's like the fact that just how upside down mind is that it is that like, 'Well, if it comes from God,' as if it's losing something, you know. All comes from God. So that's over there because, and it's completely insane. All upside down. Upside down is the right, upside down. As if there's something missing. 'Oh, I won't I handle this the rest, you know. I'll get back to God after I get back to these 52 people who are knocking my door down.' You know, it's like God in the living room and everything crazy.

Livable. Thank you. If you had 50 people living in the, again, I'm not saying what to do or what not to do. If 50 people are sitting in a living room but in your library there was God, well, I chose the library. Yeah, I'm here. So then God can tell you. That's why I keep saying that the only determinant of good and bad and better and worse and what to do and what not to do is God itself. Okay, this part I don't want to be saying for 12 years. Okay, you all better get it now. How to ensure that you're following God's will? How to ensure that you're following God's will? Yes. So that's when you're being intuitive, that you're following your heart, yes. And then God's light is unfolding by itself without mental contamination, which only means don't believe the next thought. If it's unfolding in that way as we open and empty, then that is to live in God's will. That is a really good life. And there will come a point, and there may come a point, that the presence also guides you with heart guidance. So to follow that unreal engineering, that's me. And until it guides you that way, just be open and empty and allow the presence to unfold. See, if suddenly some visitor came to your house and the visitor said to you, 'I am going to take care of all your decision making from now. You've troubled yourself with good and bad and right and wrong for too long. You're tired. I will take care of it. I will be your best caretaker, your best secretary, whatever, and I don't charge any money. I don't expect anything from you, nothing. But the only rule is that you can't do the same job that I'm doing.' Yeah, would you take that deal or no?

In a heartbeat.

Yeah, so that is what I'm showing you of the presence within you, the light within you. Very well, this is better, this is don't do this. And especially the checker, I also no need to determine, 'Am I doing well? Is this progress? Am I really free? Am I not free? Is it happening for me? Am I losing it? Am I getting...' None of that.

I was really stuck the other day when you were sharing how when you met Guruji, you just, even your freedom became his problem. Yeah, I'm reflecting on that a lot and that was my biggest problem actually, which I just handed over position. That was my biggest problem at that point. How can I get this? When will I get it? Why is it not this experience?

I think God has room for 52 retreatants in his lap or not? Or not. Don't get what it will be, but this is just, this is primary. And if this is primary, then well, that's it. If you have to look at it or something, it is something so beautiful. There are 52 who want to be guided accordingly and you can point them to God in whatever way you come open. 52 at least a little bit open are coming to you. Beyond, absolutely beyond, all by your grace. Thank you. Every type of unmute all experience and now participants don't mute themselves. Okay, whoever wants to come, come.

Hi there. I would love to come. Yeah, that's all right. Um, I've been listening to today's satsang and many years ago, kind of, no, okay, that's fine. I don't know, I didn't think much about it, sorry. I'm making too many judgments maybe. Yeah, maybe that's the thing what I wanted to speak about actually, that's why I can't say, is something like I'm listening like you're saying, 'Don't believe your next thought.' And I feel like at least today, it feels today in the satsang feels like I do the opposite and I almost can feel the gravity of everything, of every concept. Mind concepts, satsang concepts, God concepts. The concept comes up, I was like, I don't know how to, I don't know, I don't know how to let go. Like, I don't know, I feel like I don't have this power even to let go. I feel the gravity is so strong, so strong. Let go with every, not with every thought, but you know what I mean, to go with concepts, not to go with...

Okay, shall we try together? Try together. Okay, just open and empty now. Fresh, fresh. Let the thought come. Tell me what happens.

Um, the thought, yeah, that it doesn't stay like that. I can do fresh, fresh. It's going to be true in this fresh, but in the next moment it won't be fresh. But even I realized that the next moment in the head.

Okay, so I want to tell you one thing. That even if your next moment is like that, even if your next moment is like that, to be empty this moment is still worth it. That's what I've been told. I need to find somebody you can have faith in them. But it was there for seven minutes. Let me warm it up again. Yeah, maybe, maybe they put the wrong direction there. Seven minutes is good to get. Seven minutes is not bad.

Yeah, so maybe I feel like I know too much of spiritual words, of spiritual expressions. Yeah, I heard too much during satsang and I became this, my mind became that smart and I kind of see that it's being smart but like you know...

But who's concluding all this now? Am I concluding? Of course I am, but I can't stop.

But there is a journey, Father. Like I want to say that there is a journey. It's not that simple.

Where did that come from? In the journey? No, the idea that there is a journey. I want to see, it's not that simple. That's a complex thing. Oh, it's very simple. Okay, let's say experience itself, like my life. Whose life? Who cares? Right now, right now, right now, right now. No, no, no, no, no, no. Let me think. What is the journey right now? From where to where?

Okay, but is it not like thinking and journey or believing in it still is coming back?

Yeah, because I know I will look away. You go to your mind. Just keep looking at me now. Tell me what's happening right now. From right now. Oh no, yeah. Let me think that.

That's a complex thing. Oh, it's very simple. Okay, let's say experience itself, like my life. Whose life? Who cares, right? Right now, right now, right now, right now. No, no, no, no, no, no. Let me think. What is the journey right now? From where to where? Okay, but is it not like thinking and journey or believing in it still is coming back? Yeah, because I know I will look away.

You go to your mind. Just keep looking at me now. Tell me what's happening right now. From right now.

Oh no, yeah. Um, let me think.

That's all. That's all this game of satsang is. It can feel like it becomes attractive to our attention; we gravitate towards that. Is it? But we are not believing it. And if we don't believe it, then we can come back. The more you believe it, the stronger it will seem. When is it, if you started a storybook, when is it easiest to drop the story? Now. Yes. But even otherwise, suppose in time, in the beginning usually, because the more you've read it, the more you've invested into the story, the characters, the relatability of the narrative, all that. So you will never escape from this story unless you start now. Okay? So in now, this moment, like that, there is such a thing as moment. Yes. You spent a moment with God. What is the best gift you can give to the one that will be deluded ten minutes later? That ten minutes ago you were with God. That's a better gift than saying I was deluded now and I will be deluded then.

Because okay, I will, I have to argue here. Okay, but my experience, yeah, I experienced the next moment in now. Yes, that's how I experience time. Like in my moment, even outside, if I think about the future or the past, I always experience it in now. This is such a delusion. I don't know how to get out of it. Now you say, yeah, but then oh my God, you know what I mean? I feel like I'm in a maze and I can't get out.

Yeah, yes. Now, without believing a thought, tell me.

Well, it seems like so simple. Don't believe your next thought, right? And well, I'm doing this for how many years now? Seven, eight years. And look where I am, still believing my thoughts. So I'm gonna spend my rest of my life... oh, sorry for the rant coming up. Okay, but you had to follow what I'm saying. Okay, sorry. Without believing at all. But what if I do believe in that?

Don't. That's what I mean.

But I do. So like, what do I do with that? Like, if you, like when you disconnect... if someone says to me that, uh, I'm just putting on too much weight, you know, all my arteries are getting clogged, so I say stop eating chocolate cake all the time. You say, 'But I do!'

Yeah, we all know people like that. Yeah, yeah. Like honestly, I can't pretend now to say, 'Oh yeah, it's fine in that moment,' but it won't be. I will lie to you. So let's see. One said the only choice you have is do not go along with what your thoughts are telling you, which means don't go with the stream of your thoughts. And one day you will see that even that was Grace. But you must make that choice. Papaji said keep quiet. Father says, Guruji says, don't identify. I say don't believe your next one. So either all of us are like lost, something is going wrong, which is not possible. This is like we have to keep repeating it. But I know you can't do it anyway. What's going on?

Well, throughout centuries every, everyone, Jesus talked about it, everyone spoke. I'm not arguing about it. I'm just saying it seems like I can't do it.

But I am telling you that you can. Who do you trust more? You don't know. Like everyone's starting to doubt it if it's like... I don't know. You're not hurting without it. You know where the doubt is coming from. Do you have better options for faith? Second, yeah, better options to what can you have faith in besides the mind?

So one is Ananta, second is mind, third is, third is some, some personal connection I feel to God. Maybe that.

And with that personal connection, will you speak from their mind or they will speak from God?

No, it never speaks from the mind.

Okay, then you can have faith in that one. They never speak from the mind. Is it because at opposite ends of this plane, there's only the heart and at the opposite end is the mind? The expressions, the instruments, all of those are unimportant. But are you going to trust your heart, your intuitive insight? Because everything valuable you have found in your life so far has only been through that. Tell me one good thing you have found through your mind, and don't say TV shows because I can't argue with that.

Okay, fair game. Um, okay. In the mind I found only lies and fleeting things. Yes, constantly changing. Yet some things it, it seems like they not, or they, I don't know.

Yes. What valuable thing or what is that that you found in your heart?

I can't put it into words. That's beyond.

But was it worth it?

There's no even question of worth or not worth. Just what would life be without that? There would be life, there wouldn't be life.

So what do you have to do, or what advice is coming from here? If you use that, there is a... what you can read at least. I don't feel like it's really... you're taking it that seriously as it's just like a rant or the tantrum. But with the one who's been at it for seven years and there's been no change in all of that, it was never about that one anyway. It's always been about God. Can you change the locus, the central point of your narrative, to God instead of this 'me'?

With God at the center, it's been really intense. Like, um, for example, if I sit in meditation, my mind will be like very loud. Yeah, everything around is quiet. If I would be not in meditation, so environment is very loud and it's just like, what is going on? Can I have a break? It seems like no, not at this point. Then I don't know. So, but it's not like loud, what I mean, it's not like paying for something. It's more like just stop it. But I can't stop it. I'm trying not to pay attention. It's just there. It's just...

Oh, I'm telling you, this is the problem. We're trying to not pay attention. Don't pay belief in the same. What you're trying to not pay attention to, don't give that one belief. Let attention go. It's okay. There's this trouble with attention for many, many years. Thanks. So I started looking for God. I tried to find God with my attention and tried to control my attention and attention, intention. I was very bad. But it's not needed. You can just surrender. You can just give it all up. Just don't believe anything. Don't understand.

Father, I, I'm giving up. I really don't have anything else in my pockets. Like, that's it.

Because respect, give up everything. Don't understand anything. Don't know anything. Struggle, just trouble organically, naturally. Just no one... I'm not seeing any struggling happening. Maybe she's gonna laugh or she's gonna...

No, I'm not gonna laugh. Thank you. But you're trying to understand.

No, I see that I'm in a maze and I see that I can get out of it. You see? I see that. I don't see. You see or you think? Tell the truth as you know.

You know, if I don't know anything, then I don't know. I don't know what is happening in that way. If I look minus all the concepts, everything I know, then I don't know.

Exactly. Are you here still?

Yes. Okay, I'll give a little smile if that's a little one. Big one will look like... I don't know. Like, don't disturb me right now. I'm trying not to know exactly. Yeah, that I will never get it and it's fine.

Okay, you know that. And what is this mind thing? And when this thought comes, you have to believe it? Is that what you're representing right now? Jesus, where is this 'you' coming from? He's like, 'Wow, okay.'

No, I don't honestly, I don't, I don't. But it seems like I gravitate towards... yes, it's very easy to believe. And yes, I can. You can. Like, how many satsangs can I listen to and implement during the days of my life, let's say, and still it's so persistent? My belief is so persistent. And as also says, I don't believe and believe. Maybe. Like, thank you. You're messing with me.

This is a good example. So if I tell you just keep looking at me and you won't believe your thoughts...

No, I don't know. But I want to say that's what I do. Stop it. Okay, it's a question. That's what I do. Yeah, yes. Stop it. Yeah, yeah. I'm here. Hello.

Is it so difficult to let them go? No, it comes now like, like it doesn't matter. Like it's there's a thought. Can you see it comes now that it doesn't matter? There's also thought. You know what doesn't matter is how long you've been at it. You've been at it for seven years or you've been at it for seven hundred lifetimes. Doesn't matter. Now is the time to stop. Just let go. Also doesn't matter what you're going to do later. Only right now. When I say to all of you that God is here, how is it heard? You know, sometimes I feel like it's heard. Oh yeah, in satsang, yes. But yes, as soon as you leave the room or you leave from Zoom, it's just like back, back on life, my problems, my life, my personal whatever. That during satsang time, how many in the world can report that during two hours twice a week or whatever, we can meet God? So yeah. So what is that? What is this persistent, stubborn energy? I want to investigate God more, not what that is. What is God? Apparently, He's taking His time. He is not rushing anywhere and He's actually so chill in His maze and whatever this world and Maya, and He wouldn't care less.

See, I just feel that something gets lost in translation. And I don't mean Lithuanian and Indian. I just mean that when I say God is here, the way I mean it and the way it is heard. Because if you truly got news that God is somewhere in the world, for example, you would rush with all your might towards that. So because you're right, there may be too much, maybe too much to get jaded with a particular motion. So yeah, awareness, Consciousness, Being, God—all these terms you've heard so often that they're not really heard. I am saying that God is here.

And I would say that sometimes I do feel it when you say in satsang now. I don't know about you.

You were not at the center of this story. Even your story, I am introducing you to the one that is. And when the mind comes and tells you, 'Yes, I see it now,' or 'Yeah, sometimes I see you and sometimes I don't,' it's again taking the position of the central protagonist back. But that one doesn't exist. So I'm not being rude at all to say that it's not about you, because I'm talking about... we are talking about a non-existent one. The only existent one seems to be denied on the basis of these imaginary mythical concepts of 'me'. Is it so? If you keep saying, 'Yes, it may be, but what about me?' you see, it is just a denial of what is. It's a denial of God. And it is a very strong-minded actually, which attacks the holy presence which is your very heart, your very being, with thoughts. It seems so compelling about a non-existent fictional character, not even like a character in a book, just so non-existent. And this is what you're struggling with. And your heart knows that this is true. So if these thoughts still have a hold on, I'm saying yes, here's God, all right, but what about me? Then remember what I say about the lane being too narrow. There can only be God or me. So but I said if it is all about me, then why we call it spirituality? You could call it 'meality'. Spirit is meaningless or God is meaningful... is meaningless without its relationship with me. You see, the 'me' central. So change the center of your life from the 'me' to God itself, and it doesn't matter what happens to a little old me. It doesn't exist anymore. It's not about you as a spiritual seeker. And when you will come to full satisfaction that 'you' doesn't exist and God is, these have been having your belief. And sometimes it's all right to say, 'Okay, please forget it, nothing will happen for me style,' okay? Because even when we say like that, but actually it's been seven years, nothing is happening for me, nothing, now I'm just useless at this or whatever, it's still conveying some hope because we would not be saying it unless there was a hope of something else happening. The 'I' that hasn't got it will never get it. But there is within you a recognition which you cannot fool me with all your terms. I will not be fooled about that. So I know that that insight is there, that you cannot deny it to yourself. That can never go. Wherever you truly know the truth, you always know.

Nothing is happening for me. Nothing. Now I'm just useless at this or whatever. It's still conveying some hope because we would not be saying it unless there was a hope of something else happening. The 'I' that hasn't got it will never get it. But there is within you a recognition which you cannot fool me with all your terms. I will not be fooled about that. So I know that that insight is there, that you cannot deny it to yourself. That can never go. Wherever you truly know the truth, you always know the truth. And where you haven't found the truth, you can never find the truth. And you as Consciousness can determine whether you want to live in this hell or this heaven. There's nobody else who's going to be able to tell you or to do that for you. You have to taste your life as Consciousness, as if you're living as an individual entity or whether you are living in God's plan. Even the Master cannot force you to switch over. You know, deep through our guidance and vibes and give you something to really... but I cannot say only in the heart that only God itself in its play as a spiritual Master... nobody can do so. All I can do is invite and say it's very good here and you can live here with me. I can really see that it's very good here.

Um, one thing as well I've been like thinking and contemplating is to maybe just leave the satsang for the time being altogether. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy but like to me, to myself, it sounds like, 'Wow, the thing that I give my life to God,' you know? And to me, it's like it doesn't mean leave God, something that is in my heart or what I've seen. I can't unsee it. It's not like that. But maybe just leave all this spiritual surrounding and leave all the concepts of spirituality and actually implement this in real life daily. I don't know, like I'm doing this right now but I just had such a thought.

This is the tendency. You shared it; I'm so glad you shared it. But this is the tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater, which many of us have. That feels like we get so troubled by it, so let me just give myself a fresh start and we're not leaving all. And this is the most of coming to satsang, you see, like that. And it can sound very convincing, you see. So that is why I'm telling you that you have to... the only determinant of good or bad, right or wrong, is your heart, is your intuitive insight. Don't go with any mental tactics, mental strategies.

But could the heart ask for such a thing? Because it felt like it's more from the heart rather than the mind, because the mind would be, 'Oh no, you can't do this, what it means.' But in my heart... and I don't know, it's hard for me to say because it's such important things for me.

Yes, and like I know if you like neighbors... I don't know. I have to say that I've noticed that the heart is quite clear in its guidance here and it does not do this double-speak business. So in my heart, I'm not getting any such sense that it will do better for you if you were not in satsang. Okay? How do you know when you're following your heart? You heard Jimmy's answer earlier, no? You can only confirm truly that you're being intuitive if what you truly are is apparent to you in that moment. Because only intuitively can you get a sense of who you are—not a sense, but a recognition of who you are. So if that recognition is present, then you're being in your heart. Everything else is a bit tricky initially. Can you recognize yourself? You go to the mind only second. Can you recognize about yourself when you are visiting the mind or, 'No, I'm full in the mind right now'?

Yes, I believe I can.

Yeah, so for those who can recognize it, it is easier actually, as difficult as that may be to believe right now. But it's actually when you can spot you're in the mind. Holy Father, that's what I'm just like. My child, I just want to tell you that it does not have the power you think it has, you see. It's using all the evidence—took so many years and all of that—and you're so young still that seven years seemed like a long time. At my age, seven years is nothing. So it's using all this evidence to convince you that it's not working, you see. But the one that you're trying to make it work out for is non-existent. And if I was to give something to that one finally by saying, 'No, no, that one is non-existent, that one is non-existent, but at the end you get the Grand Prix,' it's not like that. It truly, authentically has to go.

Yeah, I don't know what's happening today. I didn't plan for it at all.

Okay, so how to defend the mind? Because some of you still believe that to just drop it like that is not that easy, you know. So okay, if it is still like that, then I can give some tips about that as well. Have deep faith in your Master, in God. Have a lot of humility, a lot of humility. 'I am not special, I am not worthy, I am not any of these things.' So, 'I'm not spiritually accomplished,' not any of these things. Just be empty of all these things that the mind offers you. Because as you're innocent, humble, truthful, faithful, then you will see that the mind's temptations don't have that kind of power. Don't have that kind of power. So for all of you, if just to drop it like that seems like too far and too absurd and all of this thing, then just become simple. Become humble. Because the mind will constantly offer you things to make yourself better, but you don't have to be better. You just have to be simple. Become the simplest, humblest one.

That lately has been coming up as well, that maybe it was about like a thought that I never had before, like maybe I can't trust you and I no longer feel you in my heart.

That thought took seven years to come? Usually it comes much earlier. I never had this before. We don't have to look at the complexion and say, 'Oh, they're trying to propose this.' They're only trying to propose an individual entity that doesn't exist. That's the main job. That's all. You don't have to start to get worried about it now. It's attacking another. I'm surprised it's attacking after so long.

No, I used to feel like anger, annoyance or whatever, but never doubting, you know, doubting your words and your presence. But there was something, maybe I don't know, maybe difficult to go against the mind itself. You start doubting everything.

What can you say for certain then? That becomes the Cartesian exploration. What can I really confirm that I know? I can doubt this, I can doubt this world, I can doubt everything. This may be a dream. So what is it that you cannot... what is undoubtable?

My own insight, I would say that thing.

So just hang on to that for dear life. That's the difference between faith and belief as well. You have to have faith in me, but I don't need your belief. What I'm pointing to is your own insight, not the thought that you come up with, not a conceptual understanding that you have. Faith in your own seeing. And the alternative that the world has to offer, you know, just in real life when all of that stuff and maybe nice and peaceful without anything... nobody experiences that. There's no such life. There's the life of the planet of the earth and there's a life in the planet of the heart. In your heart is the life in true satsang. It doesn't matter if there's a teacher in front of you or an entire universe in front of you or opposing you. A life led in the heart, a life led in God's light, is the only way to live. So, only verticals. Yeah, sorry for this rant. I heard where it came from. Anyone can come. Hello, hello, hello.

I must say I've been following the Mondays and Wednesday audio satsangs a lot, yeah. And I always... because I like you showing us how to live from the heart. And I can report like, even though I don't know if I wanted a little bit to share this, but even though my financial situation and living... I don't know where I'm going to live next week and my bank account... yeah, and I like this. I find it like very beautiful, like my body is moving and there is like intelligence to that and it's truly amazing. Like, it's truly thank you so much for this. It's so beautiful. And somehow like even sharing, like just speaking with friends becomes sometimes such a joy. And I wanted to say something else. In the satsang, I found my hand moving to unmute myself and I was like, 'What is it?' Like, normally it was quite painful now not to trust this and I was like, 'Oh.' And then Keisha and others so freely unmuted themselves and once I unmuted myself and then quickly now... just sorry, I just... yeah. So now maybe I'm happy I jumped for that or this happened or yeah, just happy that I could speak to you.

Yes, it's completely fine. Just move from your heart whichever in any way. What is the worst-case scenario with me? Sometimes I want to ask all of you that, sometime when I hear that you'll be scared to do this and a bit scared to do that, what's going to happen? What's the worst? You've seen some of you've been here many years. Tell me, what is the worst-case scenario? What's going to happen? Okay, what is the worst that has happened to anybody who's coming to satsang? I'm going to think of anything. Maybe the worst, maybe yeah, I don't know, a job something or I'll just ignore it and... oh, what is the worst? Like, what is the worst I can find myself? 'You are talking absolute rubbish, you know that.' Something like that. I can't see anything harsher than that coming out from here. The Father that you will... that you will laugh it away. That's very scary. Very sincere report. And when this happened and this happened and I just laugh. Is that the worst?

But it is compared to all the ways that you heard. If there's any sticks... like my... I have this impression of Ananta, it's very like harmless, sweet boy. They always wonder, welcome. It's so scary for everyone.

No, Father, it's not. Oh my God, what is scary is...

Yes, am I audible? Yes. It's to meet the untruths in ourselves. The light. When I meet with my lies when I talk to you, this is the most scary part.

Yes, yes, Father, yes.

Another one, I wrote it down, but the worst that could happen would be like you're kicking us out of satsang or something because of too many tantrums.

Have you seen that me doing that with anyone? And that... I don't want to repeat the full reasoning behind that, but among the thousands who've come and gone, one person. Yeah, you stand a good chance at being two.

I'm trying. Yeah, this is scary as well, that you don't listen, like you get lost, you know.

Have you seen that happen with anyone?

No, I haven't seen it, but the mind can, in my case... I just know it, I don't know about others, but it can have the tendency to think that you are hopeless. So he's not... 'You have been here long enough and now you still don't get it, so get lost.' Get lost. So self-image, his own image of yourself and what others do, which feels very interesting, much more than what you would ever do. The family you've got, such a harmony.

Yes, and also one big idea, Father. Father, with me, no, I feel it's exactly that, that you're so kind and soft and patient, and if I get somebody like that to get angry or frustrated or not even frustrated, angry or sort of... I think I should just generally be angry and aggressive. I just want to share that it's a year since we left Australia. By your grace, I am very grateful. I'll see you again, my dear. It was not so hard. Tomorrow is a year since we left Australia and they came to India. And I'm very, very grateful. Thank you so much. It's been quite a year. It's been quite the year.

Maybe it's just a beard. We love the beard, Father, we love it. Yes, some places these sannyasis, because sometimes it must charge, I don't know. I said, um, yes, this afternoon. So it's just cool, you know, because yeah. Were you scared when you were here in Bangalore?

Um, sometimes at the beginning, maybe yes. What do you think? Yeah, I noticed. Okay, or getting better. Thank you, Father. I'm like, sorry you... how long, so long you're not getting it out.

Somebody said Father. Who said? Yeah, it's Samia here. Hello, Father. So, um, I actually adore your expression and I don't feel fear any...

Yes, some places these geneses, because sometimes it must charge. I don't know. I said, um, yes, this afternoon. So it's just cool, you know, because, yeah. Were you scared when you were here in Bangalore? Um, sometimes at the beginning, maybe yes. What do you think? Yeah, I noticed. Okay, you're getting better. Thank you, Father. I'm like, sorry, you how long, so long you're not getting it out. Somebody said Father, who said? Yeah, it's Samia here.

Hello, Father. So, um, I actually adore your expression and I don't feel fear anything about you, but what can I say? It's like, um, what is scary is for me that's maybe just to be separated from you. Not from your case, but like God make that in that way. And it's really, yeah, scary. It scares me.

Thank you. I don't feel like God will ever do that with any of my children. I don't feel that God will take you away. Obviously, over the years so many children have that because of some mental thing, but I don't feel like I can say for this one, really. The heart guided them to go with something, yeah. And coming to Bangalore to see you next week, and you ask about what's scary. It was already in my mind to say: bring on the Butcher of Bangalore or whatever's needed here. Bring on the Butcher of Bangalore. Where's the honest? It's easy listening, so he's not been... excuse me, you'll see him. Bring on the butcher. I don't feel like... amazed. You need to show him a recording one day. And it's very funny that very early on I got this name, this 'smiling ax man,' and then over the years the smile also went away. So your dream became the butcher. I'm so harmless, Father.

Yes, I had a dream with you two nights ago, I think. And you were at the table with all the Sangha and then what? Like an empty chair next to you. And I wanted to sit, and you look at me and said, 'No.' And after this, all the Sangha knew, wanted to make some pictures, and I wanted to make a picture with you and you said, 'No' and 'No.' I find it very difficult even to act like this.

So the dream ones, you know, the dream managers are very scary. I had nothing to do with this one. Scary was: what are you willing to give up for God? Yeah, what are you not willing to give up? He wants to choose like that. Okay, everything. But that's it, but that's your promise. Think, oh my God, one more time. Exactly. Thank you, thank you, thank you. All the best. Thank you. Everyone can come up to... it seems more like a room rather than like this. This is better. It's like in Bangalore, Father, a little. It's really nice. Double hearing. Oh, you can't hear me? No, no, I'm saying, are you having trouble hearing? No, I can hear you. Okay, okay. What did you see? It feels like in Bangalore. I feel like you're in Bangalore. That's what I was feeling like, like in a room. Yes, yeah, it's good. Thank you, thank you. Yes, yes, thank you.

Can I just go back for a minute for disbelief? Can you go back in time? I don't know. I just, for me, it's like I really believe it, what you say, that it is not the attention but the belief of the... you believe it? I don't know. I just, for me, it feels like it's kind of not my decision. Even if I just decide I will never believe any thought in the future, and even if that, even the time when I practice it, when I say, 'No, no, you are not true, you are just...' of course, but at the same time I believe it. I mean, it's kind of not in my hand to... it's not my choice to believe, not my power.

So then why are all these people going on telling us for so many centuries? I know you can do it, and all these people can do it. I can't. How do you know you can't? Because of the experiences. Because right now, let's try now. Let the thought come and let it go. This is not me now. This is you. Do this. Yes, actually something very deep in what we're saying, because the global being itself, which is the servant or just an instrument, is already your presence. It's already your life. And you can do it. It's just the mind convincing you, 'No, no, I can't do it. I can't do it.'

Believe me, I don't know what is the difference between my heart and my life. Never talking, actually doesn't say anything. I know every saying is coming from my mind. I never heard my heart was saying anything.

Okay, so for some time, and this is true for many of us, it is true. So you have to trust the silence of the heart more than the words of the mind. But till you hear from the heart that you can't do it, don't believe it.

So like, I cannot not believe you, and at the same time I cannot not believe what my experience is.

What do you mean by experience? My crying, my thrown spiritual trying perceptions. Yeah, now at the moment, just the memory. So that's also perception. Yeah, so you're going to believe the perception by itself? Like, how can you believe a perception? Believe this? No, no, it doesn't make anything. Your experience... can anyone believe their experience? They try to believe in experience. Life does not apply to perception. Belief only applies to thought. Belief only applies to language. So okay, believe your experience. What is your experience telling you without a thought?

This interpretation is going on all the time, even if I don't... yes, all the time. And because it is going on all the time doesn't mean that you have to believe it.

Is because it's on all the time, the believing is going on as well by itself? What for the last weeks? I cannot sleep because I'm starting, starting now. Believe everything that comes through your mind. Come on, leave your thought. I'm creating a thought: you're a blue whale, you're living in Antarctica. Can you believe? Because it's so boring now. I know, and you will see them. But how can I tell you when I wake up from my sleep at the same... sorry, you wake up from your sleep and you're immediately identified? Immediately, with no choice, immediately? Yes, as soon as you always... excuse me, as soon as you wake up? Yes, and it doesn't go. Sometimes it's good right now, but right now, right now, who are you right now? Right now, now, right now, now, now. In the middle of that, I'm sure there was no image. It is buying the mind narrative. Just throw them away. I wake up and I'm only go the minute instant I wake up. Who is this 'I'? Who is this that is the minute they wake up? It's important to find out.

I don't know who is what is there.

Some random stranger you want to know who it is? Somebody came into your house and he's just sitting in a couch, you want to ask like, 'Who are you?' I was using somebody is already there, you're saying so intimately 'I am,' and we don't want to find out who that is. Who is that? At the moment it's just like a joke, you know. Random person came up just now and started shouting something in this room right now, you'll want to find out who it is immediately. All of us will say, 'Who is this?' No, but we are saying 'my own being.' Who is it? We don't want to know. I don't know. But what I can tell you is it immediately becomes... who becomes the problem? This question is not coming. Obviously, the mind doesn't like this question. It loves to have like... it loves to explain all the spiritual problems that we have, but who is having them? It doesn't want to contemplate.

I... who? No, I just don't know how to keep this up, Ananta Ji.

Because it is the thoughts that need keeping up. The truth doesn't. No, no, how to be away from this identification? How to... don't keep anything up. Keep your hands down. Relax. Yeah, I also see the thoughts, how they want to take me back to this, you know. Which are the most difficult problems to solve? The non-existent ones. I just wish to be always so obvious like now. Let's see. Are you being obvious? Obviously not. Any cool? The mind can't not understand dissonance, not to understand. It's been a long searching, my dear. Can't not understand me. You understand the only trouble is when we take ourselves seriously. Relax, enjoy. Nothing is happening. Nobody cares. You start so seriously. Wednesday as well, not all the time. You need to recharge this, like the seriousness. We should record all of my interactions with Anikó in one video. Yeah, again next week, it'll be a fun video. She's laughing like Guruji, laughing Buddha video. But the question is the same one. I'm not scared from you, but from Guruji. I cannot even open my mouth. But it seems another day I'm going to Sahaja in this month. Have you seen my photos with Guruji? Yeah, look at the photos of my first like five, seven years with Guruji. I am just standing like a scared schoolboy. Oh, that's Claudia Ronaldo. After all the talk about being harmless and all of that, so suppose it's just like full chop, chop, chop, chopped. Thank you.

Hello, Father.

Hello, hello, my dear. Hello.

It's really a bit like being in Bangalore today. Yeah, it's very nice. Like just like Georgie said, it's so beautiful and it feels so very close to you all, and even more because of the contemplations. I just wanted to say, like at the end, a couple of satsangs before, it's so beautiful to be regularly with the Sangha and to be just every morning in your life with your contemplations. It's just wonderful. That's... I want to thank you for that so much.

I'm so happy that... I'm so happy to hear this. So what is it now? Are we able to do three or two a day? Have you gone back to two early? It's okay. I think I see you that every time that I've been able to participate mostly. Thank you, thank you for that, Father. It feels very important here. It's Karunama again. It feels very important to surrender any idea of separation and everything else. Thank you, Father.

Hello, yes, yes, it's Adrian. I feel to share something and I thank you for what you said about this feeling of energies, that they matter and stuff. And I've... I'm looking at this. It may... you know, you said that the most important thing is not believing your next thought or not believing the thought, the mind. And I'm just looking at this, that mind and the narratives and the persona, the identity... maybe I had the idea that they are around the head area or something, but I can also feel them in my body sometimes. And like sensations in their body or moods. And there has been this feeling that they are important, but they are some kind of energies and I have to work with those energies. But now I'm open to this possibility that maybe it's just conceptual and it's a part of identity. And yeah, this is important for us.

Very important. Very important to identify the root of all of this. Otherwise, the mind can always trick us and say it's not identification with the thought, it is something else in your life. It is either the external, seemingly internal... it's none of that. It's just this.

Yes, because they were experienced like sensations in the body, I... there was a tendency to believe that they are more somehow, I don't know, more subtle than the mind, you know, or more deeper than the mind. But yeah, thank you for this. Thank you for pointing this out.

You remember the metaphor of the thief? When you're going to catch the thief, it will throw many through some rocks in some other direction, some stones to distract you. See, and say, 'No, no, it's not that. It's not me. It's there.' And when you first keep waiting for the mind to confirm that the thought is the problem, but it confirms, it becomes like the checker guy. It doesn't confirm. It will always tell you it's something else. That's not to go with its report.

Yes, and you know, there's also when I... before coming to satsang and when I started to come into spirit... so-called spirituality, or I don't know if it was really real spirituality, but I came in contact with these ideas of chakras and, you know, and yeah, I don't know if it's... if they're real or not, if they're... because I haven't heard your Guruji speak about these things. And so I'm open to... I'm, you know, I... it's better not to throw in, to draw conclusions about these things. And in the process of the self-inquiry...

Before coming to satsang and when I started to come into so-called spirituality—or I don't know if it was really real spirituality—but I came in contact with these ideas of chakras and, you know, I don't know if they're real or not because I haven't heard your Guruji speak about these things. So I'm open to it, but it's better not to draw conclusions about these things.

In the process of the self-inquiry and my surrender, some of you will naturally find some of these things happening. But even then, we don't really need to understand any of that. Our conceptual understanding doesn't affect it. And if you understand too much, then you can still become obsessed with these things. But really, what is important is that which is beyond perception. Even chakras and all this energy is in the realm of perception. This light of God or the presence can also be felt here like a very subtle lightness or a beauty or an openness. Yes, it has a very subtle vibration which can be sensed. And that's perfectly fine. It's easy to value the visible, but satsang is to start to value the invisible.

Thank you. Thank you. And if I can ask one more thing, I was wondering about this: if all desires—I mean, if some desires are very natural like hunger or thirst—maybe sometimes the mind can create a narrative around these natural desires. I maybe I heard you say something about the first-grade emotions and second-grade emotions. Maybe it applies also to this kind of hunger and thirst and the things of the body.

I'll make it simple. I'm sure we have some satsangs where I've tried to explain this first-grade and second-grade, but also a simpler way to look at it is that you don't have to worry about anything which is independent of thought. We should call it desire or aversion only after thought is involved.

So then sometimes if the mind creates a narrative around, for example, 'I'm thirsty'—there's a feeling of thirst, but the mind can create a narrative so, you know, 'I would love to drink some orange juice' or 'I would love to go to that place to drink something special.' There was a tendency to believe that these things are natural, but I feel more and more they are narratives and not natural.

Yes, that's why. Okay, let me clarify this for everyone. Everything can move externally or not from your heart naturally. And if it is coming from your heart, then it is absolutely fine. But if it is just mental desire or aversion, then we can let it go. And if we have indulged or been averse to something, then even after that, we must let it go rather than feel unworthy or something like that.

Yes, yes. Every moment is a good moment to let it go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, Father. We love you. We love you.