What Are You Not Thinking Right Now? - 2nd April 2021

So, surrender or inquire. I know it sounds very basic, no? Because these are the two: surrender or inquire. In the moments that we are caught up in the mind, you see, what the mind is proposing, it seems very true and it seems like we are living with that. There is nothing to be done anyway, you see? In the moment that you recognize that 'I'm getting caught up in the mind,' you see, instead of saying, 'Why do I still do this? When will this ever stop?'—you see that? Because that is consuming the same stuff again. To eat more of it will definitely not free you from it. So what have we been pointed to, to be free from the addiction? Either we inquire into the nature of the 'I' that even wants to be free from the mind or wants to let go of the mind—who is that one? You see? Or the seeming problem, we surrender it at the feet of whatever we feel devotion towards, you see? But asking why and when is not going to help anyway.

Maybe we spoke about this earlier, but it's worth repeating that the idea we have about what our life is like is just a very, very primitive scribble of what our life actually is like, you see? So uh, so uh, this primitive scribble is just a rough sketch, just a rough sketch, and actually missing the most important parts. Do we ever write our story which says, 'At the center of all of this is a very astounding light, the light of my primordial being, which is the very existence itself'? In its light, all these characters and this room and this world seems to come alive, you see? And when this light is not, all of the world dissolves, goes away. This very light is at the core of my presence, my being, and it is untouched by whatever character the characters may be playing out. I am the light of this apparent universe. Do our stories start that way? And therefore, because they don't, therefore they are not a true story. Even if they were to start this way, actually even then the truth cannot be captured.

So once we say that that construct is valid, is true, you see, and then we try to resolve it although it is not true—you see? Although it is not true, then what happens? So, trying to solve a non-existent problem, and that is what suffering is. Because nowhere in the story, for example, did you tell me that such beautiful birds are chirping outside your window these days, you know what I mean? I said that nowhere in the story of mind and no-mind did you tell me that such beautiful birds are chirping outside your window these days, yeah, you see? So how come? Maybe that part of the narrative of your life is more relevant than what the mind does once in a while, yeah? So, and because we are not able to encapsulate the entirety of our being and what happens in it in our narrative, the mind picks out those things which it feels like has the most juice for individuality and to problem-fix and to do, usually, or to desire—all of those things, you see? So the instant we put ourselves in a time frame, know that we are really stepping away from the truth. We are not making an accurate description of what is, even what is manifest, yeah.

I see that.

Okay, now can we try to include the manifest in our story? Are we going too far too soon? Let's have the same uh—if you will humor me, you could repeat your words, what your question was, but make the unmanifest the main character in the narrative now.

Is it audible again? Yeah, there was some sec—a few seconds that there was like—

Okay, so can you try for just for fun, just to see what happens, to say again but uh, from the point of view of the unmanifest?

Well, I would say some perception—it's of uh, there is a voice here. Oh wow, what is saying? I don't know, I don't understand, something like that. Um, so the bundle of perceptions which appear—

Of course we are stretching, because if you were to really speak from the perspective of the unmanifest reality, you see, then the minute we would start a story saying, 'Oh, there are times when it's not true,' because there is no time for the unmanifest. So I understand the struggle. But if you were to say—you could say, and that's what the sages and the teachers are pointing us to, saying that in all of the world of perceptions that seem to appear and disappear, I in my ultimate reality am not to be found, you see? I can look in every corner of this manifest universe, you see, and I can never be found objectively as a thing in that corner of the universe, you see? And yet somehow a bundle of perceptions which we call the body somehow gets um, gets to be central in my worldly narrative, and it seems like the apparent appearances or happenings for this one I claim to be mine. And the happenings and things for receiving other similar perceptions I don't claim to be mine. And when I look for a good reason to do that, I can't find one. Why I separate the world between me and the world? Why separate the notion of oneness with the idea of me and another? You do not find a reason, no?

So, and you're right that because there is a voice—a voice which claims to be able to narrate the story of your life—doesn't make it a true story, isn't it? It is a very limiting story. So suppose that as your life was happening in magnificent immersive IMAX—the next technology of IMAX, whatever it is, magnificent—and yet next to you is sitting a pesky neighbor, you see, who's narrating the whole movie in a very limited sort of way, you see? Just because he's doing it, does it make it true? That's why I keep asking that okay, there is a voice which is generating this life for you; what else is there in your being? Is that it? Are you limited by hearing this mind? You see, at this point I am not even saying let go of your perception, you see? I am saying to you that even in the realm of your perception, the voice of limitations, the voice which is putting you down and making you suffer, is a very tiny set of perception, you see? But because consciousness has given meaning to it, has given truth value to it—that you accurately, validly represent my reality—that's why we are insistent on fixing it when it needs no fixing.

One of my favorite questions these days is: what are you not thinking right now? Just rely on that. Why this unfair reliance only on what you are thinking? Also rely on what you are not thinking. Those of you new to satsang, just ignore this nonsense, okay? And lastly, what is worth contemplating is: who are we fixing it for? Who do we want permanent resolution for? Is that itself permanent? If it is an acquisition that we can make in material terms—'I acquire this,' you see—this is one type of acquisition. What is the other type of acquisition here? So I acquire some conceptual knowledge; I learned this, this is this and that is that, A plus B equal to ABC, something we learn, you see? That is the second type of acquisition. What is another type of acquisition? Isn't one.

So the truth cannot be acquired in these two ways: experiential material acquisition or conceptual acquisition. It cannot be acquired in these two ways. But the good news is, as we stop trying to acquire or grasp in these ways, the truth is apparent. And all of you have had at least a few moments of insight of this in satsang. So all of this material and conceptual acquisition, will it survive our death? Possibly not, possibly not. But you yourself, that is beyond phenomena, beyond being and not being, beyond existence and non-existence—that does not apply to that. And to discover that is to stop grasping for that which is not that, you see? To discover that is only possible through the not grasping for that which is not that. And that which is not that is this stuff. And among the two, this one is more troublesome: intellectual grasping for an understanding of that which is so beyond our understanding that only intuition can fathom it. It is so beyond conceptual understanding that only your heart, your intuition, can fathom the reality.

One metaphor that I've been using is that of two books, you see? One is an encyclopedia of worldly knowledge; everything that you can ever know about the world is in that encyclopedia. And the other is the book of your heart. Because now we are used to referring to the book of apparent knowledge, of worldly knowledge, you see, it's actually uh, we are looking for the ultimate truth in that as well. So we are trying to force it into our heads, fit it into our head, and it cannot be fit there. Trying to make a mental—make a mental understanding of the ultimate reality.

Yeah, I say it is very well like um, I think that is what is happening is that uh, mind uh, it's trying to give us a meaning or trying to grasp, comparing using memory, using—

Book of apparent knowledge, of worldly knowledge, you see, it's actually we are looking for the ultimate truth in that as well. So we are trying to force it into our heads, fit it into our head, and it cannot be fit there. Trying to make a mental understanding of the ultimate reality.

Yeah, I say it is very well like, I think that is what is happening is that mind, it's trying to give us a meaning or trying to grasp, is comparing using memory. Using 'five minutes ago was like that and now it's like that'.

Good. So you see this, very good. Now what does it mean? Nothing. Good, good. You see, because otherwise if you go for the meaning of what does that mean, if the mind is doing these things to the same book of knowledge, it will say, 'Oh, you are not yet free, you are not finding the truth' or 'You are unworthy and you are hopeless' and those kind of things can come. On the other hand, it may come that 'You are very special, you are completely free.' These kind of representations can come. So if you leave that book of knowledge and remain with the book of the heart, now what does it tell you?

Yeah, there is no grasping of anything.

As my attention went to the chat for a moment, I found something that is another one of my favorites about this one, which is: 'Are you not thinking what I'm not thinking?' Thank you, Father. Thank you. Thank you. Love you, love you. Thank you. Thank you for this good start to the sessions of Satsang. Okay, I see Mayu. Mayu, think.

Hi, I just wanted to say how happy I am to see you again, to know that you were fully recovered and we still have Satsang for me, and how blessed we are for your presence in our life. Thank you for so many Satsangs and God bless you that you never have to recover again, but you get all the strength and everything—love, health, everything you need. So yes, you never need to recover again.

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I love you so much. Thank you, thank you so much. So sweet. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good, good. And what else? That's it? Very good. Thank you, my dear. Thank you. Nice. What a wonderful beginning it has been.

Okay, yeah, I just wanted to check in, say hello, say hi. And yeah, I don't know, I felt I have to raise my hand and say something, but I don't really have to say something. So there are no problems, no unresolved things, nothing. It's just flowing. And what are you going to do without problems? It's solved. I always ask the same question myself here. I don't know, I don't know what to do.

Okay, good. Very good, very good. Is there a theme for something that when you raised your hand, was there a theme? Even though the question may not be articulatable, is there a particular topic or it was just very, very opaque? It's just randomly the thought came up, 'Just why not raise your hand today? Raise your hand, let's see what's happening.' And yeah, so very good, very good. This is very good. And of course, I do really enjoy the Sangha community. Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's of course it's something you know you can somehow feel it, see it, although it's somehow enjoyable and I don't know, it's some urge to enjoy it.

Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. That's very beautiful. Very good, very good. All my blessings, all my love. Thank you. May this openness continue to bless you in this way. Very nice. Very good. Love you. Thank you. Thank you. We can, I don't know the order, I said whoever wants to come, you can all unmute your mics. Who comes first? Everybody's being nice now. Ah, there you go. Okay, okay. Yes, yes.

Thank you. Hello. Really happy to see you. My question is going to regard what was said in the beginning when you talked about acquisition. Because I wrote something here. You said there is material acquisition, there is mental acquisition. And the question would be concerning energetic acquisition. Because there's another acquisition, another type of acquisition. Let's try to see how I can put this. It's been realized lately as far as emotions are concerned that there is not anger here and anger here and anger here; there's only this one force which is going to be called anger. And the way it was seen is that this force will go through whatever the universe is or whatever, and it will catch something in resonance in this one or this one. And so it's really, there's only one force, one emotion. As far as the question here arises, in as much as this body as a healer has got a sensitivity to energy and it will catch energetic knots in somebody in one-to-one, but of course amongst other people let's say. And it's been a question here for a long time: is there a matter of grasping something? Because of course it can be seen like this body has got the capacity to re-harmonize whenever something is like blocked. And it will come out in a very strong burping and really quite tiring. So it's really, how can I say that? It's more and more clear that it's just like there is this capacity here, so it will go through and it will do this. But is there something I don't see? What could you say about that?

What aspect of it? Is it causing any trouble in any way or bothers you in some way?

Or it is tiring, physically tiring, exhausting. And yes.

Okay, so it can be. If I can repeat your question so that we are talking about the same thing. So what you said is that there is a sort of energetic flow that happens in the waking state that seems to be energetic. And energetic, we can use the term energetic, and in a way we can say that everything that appears and disappears in the manifest is energy, you see? And whether it is material or conceptual, both of it is energetic. Is it so? So I'm fine with that description. Oh, but I see something here. When I put energetic in this way, I put that separate as the energy of mental mind. And is that it? Let's just say, let's simplify and say phenomenal. Can we say phenomenal? It's possible only in the realm of the phenomenon. Okay, now that nominal definitely includes an energetic as well. So let's not even categorize. Let's say that there is this whole super phenomena or player phenomena. And in the phenomenal play, only in the phenomenal play is this concept of acquisition or getting or not getting or giving. You see, all of this is relevant only to that. To the unmanifest, to the unphenomenal, to the nominal, there is no such notion of acquisition or non-acquisition.

Yes. Now within that, you said that as your body-mind expression has the propensity to heal other body-minds or other beings in your vicinity, what can happen is that it seems like there is some transference of energy that happens or a movement of energy that happens, and that movement can be tiring at times. You see, and this is very natural. You see, as the flow happens in this way, energetic in phenomenal things mostly are based on quantitative things. You see, so there is a reduction there, there can be an increase somewhere else, and mostly it goes in a movement like that. But what happens is that those who are usually blessed with this propensity for healing then have also this divine gift that their bodies also usually are taken care of in one night of sleep or, if it's really, really strong, then a few days of rest usually takes care of it. So it is very rare that somebody has been given the blessing to heal in this way but they themselves don't heal fast, because then they would run out very quickly. I mean that this body-mind play would not last long at all if that was the case.

So the good news is that we don't have to do anything conceptually about it at all, and we cannot, you see? So even the healing happens very naturally. Of course, we can create some sort of a play around it, like some spiritual movements create a sort of play around it in which a certain set of things can be done or not done. You see, but actually it is just a much more natural movement than that is my feeling. You see, and the healing of the seeming body-mind through which this sort of capacity is playing out is also moving very naturally in the movement of consciousness, in the play of consciousness. So my advice would be the less we think about it the better it is, because our conceptual conclusions about how to deal with these kind of situations are really not at the level of where that is actually happening. It is a very, again, a sketchbook sort of representation of what is going on and how it is moving. Even in fact, my words about it in the last few minutes are sounding like a simple sketch about it. You see, so I'm not so... my advice would not be to rely on them too much because they're much broader forces that play within consciousness which are doing all of this. And if you oversimplify it, you see, and we make these primitive sort of sketchbook representations, then we feel like those are true and we try to find resolutions and solutions within those levels. But it's really not like that. We can just trust the heart of being itself. If it is given a particular expression of consciousness this kind of, let's call it ability, then it is its job itself to take care of that ability as well. And intuitively you will have the sense of when to rest and when to be full-on, and you can trust your intuition about it more than any conceptual representations.

I can't see you, I can't hear you anymore. Yes, Mandy, I'll just... I just muted everyone again. You'll have to unmute once more.

Yes. Yeah, there has been this intuition of what you're saying beautifully. And especially because when I reconnected with this capacity, let's say, there were all these people saying 'you need to protect yourself' and it doesn't make sense actually anymore.

Actually, that's what I meant. Because if we take ourselves to be an individual owner of some ability or skill, then our solutions and our propositions will be about how that individual can manage this. But actually, no individual is the owner of any of this. It is just how consciousness is choosing to play in all its various aspects of existence. You see? So the notion of individual ownership can lead to a lot of spiritual trouble. You see, when I say spiritual trouble, I'm talking about spiritual pride, spiritual egotism—all of these things can build in. And then what can happen is that a lot of fear can also come, like spiritual fear, that 'if I'm going to be like this, then can I go into a group of people? Can I hug people? Then what if the energy is transferred to me and then little old me will have to suffer from the energy of another?' and this kind of thing.

So this was playing in this one a couple of years ago. It's gone, this. But what I can see there is that in a very subtle way is that as it takes really well this burping—it's a way, it is whatever it is—but suddenly the stomach is going to blow like that or there will be strong headaches. And of course, there's no total acceptance of that because it's painful in a way and whatever. And there's always, it's always catching here with 'is it normal? Is there something to be done? Is there you...?'

Yeah, all the constructs of the mind which set you up. You see, like there's a construct called 'normal' which gets a lot of us out, you know? It's just a setup to suffer. Like, have we ever met anyone who is normal? There is no such thing as normal. Consciousness just doesn't play that way. If everyone, like a snowflake, is unique, you see, so how will we have a category of normal? It is just these are the constructs which we need to deconstruct because they trip you.

All the constructs of the mind which set you up, you see, like there's a construct called 'normal' which gets a lot of us out. You know, it's just a setup to suffer. Like, have we ever met anyone who is normal? There is no such thing as normal. Consciousness just doesn't play that way. If everyone, like a snowflake, is unique, you see, so how will we have a category of normal? It is just these are the constructs which we need to deconstruct because they trip us up, you see. And then the mind will use the construct both ways. You see, if it finds something to poke and say, 'Oh, you're not being very normal, this is not normal,' you see, and then if you go to the other side, it'll say, 'You're being so regular right now, what's so great about you?' You see, so it uses it both ways. There is no meaning in this world of construct. The minute we fall for a construct and say, 'I have to conform to this,' it is just going to trouble you. It is just going to trouble you. So forget about normal and not normal. Forget about that. And the main point of satsang is to deconstruct all these constructs.

Yes, yes. And so I would offer to you, if you're open to take it, take the construct of healing and forget about it. This is done already. This word, I had to use this to say, but it doesn't mean anything here anymore. If I had to advertise for this activity here, which actually is drawn to nothing—and I think it's because there are all these understandings taking place—but it came out as a 'soul tuner,' as healing. It doesn't mean anything. It's all a matter of reharmonizing to our true nature somehow. So, okay, so tuning in, thank you. But for today, then, this construct of harmonizing to our true nature, yeah, forget about that.

Yes, everything, every construct, let's go.

Oh, so you can feel like we are able to elevate our constructs, you know, but actually every construct is at the same level. Yes, yes, I can see that. It's very clear. Yes. So I will surrender all this at your feet. And as well, because it's been seen, whenever in meditation, let's say quiet sitting, there's no seeking anymore, but all these energetic movements, they just feel so... sometimes, you know, tamasic energy, and it goes in. And I can see this one still trying to, well, feeling it's too close. It's like, how can I say, there is still this carrot of total silence and deep silence and deep relaxation. And of course, this body with all these movements felt so... so I dropped that as well.

Very good. So in Indian spirituality, there are three very important concepts: sattva, rajas, and tamas. Just forget about them. Yes, okay? It's all very new to me, but at the same time, I can drop this. I don't even have to know this, right? Yes. Such a blessing. Be well. May your body be well. Thank you. Just quickly before we go to the next one, something in the chat is getting my attention. 'Namaste Father, can you talk about how not to take the bundle of perceptions called your body as yourself?' Okay, very good. So, can you talk about how not to take the bundle of perceptions called your body as yourself? You see, now, are you able to come up on the thing? Maybe we can make it an interactive conversation. You just tell me yes or no in the chat. Yes? Okay. So if you could raise your hand, then it's easier to spot you. I mean on the tool. Yes, there you go. Very good, my dear Jason. Good, good, good.

Okay, so let's look at this. This is an enjoyable question: how not to take this body to be myself? You see, now, why I invited you up is to see if we're on the same page. Now, what I find is that naturally I'm not taking the body to be myself. I need to do something to take the body to be myself. Can you take a minute and confirm this in your own case?

I always find it's both ways. Like, okay, because I somehow know I'm consciousness, but then again, I also feel so identified with the body. For example, if it's not well, then I feel that I'm suffering.

Yes, okay. What about—let's leave the past and future aside for a moment. Right now, would it be work to take the body to be yourself, or would it be work to not take the body to be yourself? Would it be work, work, work, work, work? Would you have to work, effort, effort, to take the body to be yourself, or effort to not take the body to be yourself? This is for all of us.

I can't even say if I take my body as myself now.

Exactly. Because one of the another idea that we have is that our natural condition is body conditioning. Our natural condition is that we take the body to be ourselves. But in my investigation, I have not found it to be true, you see. Especially in spiritual seeking, if you're in satsang, you are not taking the body to be yourself, you see. Because in freedom, the body will not get anything. So why do you come to satsang? It's not for the body. And that's speaking conceptually. Now, if you look really just perceptually, just looking at perceptions, can you draw a line between body sensation and other sensation? Is there a natural line which says this, behind this boundary, is you, and outside that boundary is not you? Is there a natural line? I'm going to put everyone on the screen for a moment. How many of you feel that just effortlessly you take yourself to be the body? Just let me see your hands if you feel that way. Effortlessly you take yourself to be the body? Kind of? Kinda? Okay. Next page. Can you also... the pages don't move for you when they move here? No? Ah, okay. So you'll have to do it for a few times. So how many of you take yourself to be... you feel naturally just take yourself to be the body without effort? Okay, mostly no. Good, good. One I saw, yes. Yes. Okay, okay. Good, good. Those who are raising your hands, I'm happy you're being honest and open. That's good, that's fine.

Okay, so it's a good experiment for all of us, actually. I saw your hand, thank you so much. I saw everyone. So it's a good experiment, I feel, for everyone. Could you just forget about the past and future for a moment and tell me whether naturally, because there are some sensations being perceived, you see, which we call the body, does it mean automatically that they create your boundary? The rest of the sensations and perceptions, are they not in the same space where these sensations are? You see, what separates them? See if you find any boundary which is natural to you. Everything that you perceive, whether it is sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, or even that which we call inner perceptions—you can go as far as you like in your imagination—now, what is it that defines my boundary? And is it natural to me, or is it learnt knowledge?

I remember at least when our children were smaller, we had to teach them this kind of thing. And it's okay, as parenting we have to teach them those things so that later they will let go of them. We don't have to try and become new sort of parents or something. But we would have to teach them. Like my son, I take this example often, he's saying, 'Son, where's your head?' He would many times point at my head, you see. You're small, no? They may learn the difference between you and me and my head and your head. This did not come naturally. So this propensity to take ourselves to be one bundle of sensations and the rest of that which is perceived as outside of me is not something that was natural. It was something that was learned. And when I looked into the eyes of my Father, Guruji, then I saw that this boundary was just not there. It was never there. I realized that I had been relying on this conceptual boundary, but I can't find anything with the boundary anymore. It is not something new that happened here; it was just seen clearly when I sat on the hot seat with him.

And that is why I am inviting all of you to see this clearly now, that you definitely need at least one notion to claim only this bundle of sensations or perceptions to be you. You can look at any perception, you see, any sensation. Don't be scared of it. The perception will never create a boundary, you see. So there's a perception, if you're looking at your screen, you may look at this hand there. That's a perception. There are sensations and perceptions that we call the body. There are sensations and perception that we call emotion. There could be other sensations of pain and pleasure, perceptions of memory, imagination, thought. All these perception, you see. But what makes a boundary and says, 'These are me and those are not me'? You see? And that is in a way the healer's conundrum also, you see. What am I actually healing? You see, if it is all one set of sensations, one set of energy, then it is just a movement of energy. But we need a line that separates and says, 'I heal another.' Is it? That's very important to deconstruct the idea.

So did any of you find now in your looking, did you find a natural boundary to your being? And though I know it's a tough question, but if you feel yes truly in your heart, just put your hand up. It's not a spiritual competition. Did you discover a natural boundary to your being? That is, whether it's aligned to your body or not. You kind of did? One, I see that kind of did. Okay, we'll go to that one in a moment. Okay. You see, now what makes it your boundary? Let me define that further and see if you can go along. I have shown a few hands, thank you my dear. So, are you less on that side of that sensation and are you more on the other side of that sensation? That would be what a boundary is, no? Like, 'This part of it is my house, so this is... I have a higher belonging, like I have more rights over this territory in some way,' you see, than I have on that side of the boundary. Is that your experience, that you're more on this side of the boundary and less on that side of the boundary?

So suppose it is a sensation that we call the body, you see. It's a sensation. Just look at that sensation, just unjudged, and see if there's something more of you on this side and less of you on the other side of it. They may seem like very simple contemplations, you know, they're very, very important sometimes. Yes, my dear. So suppose you found what you feel like you really set some boundary, you see, or has the propensity or the mind has the habit of taking that sensation to convey that sensation as my boundary. So then really look at it, you see. Really look at that sensation and see whether it is true that you are there on every side of that sensation and not more on one side and less on the other side. Because that would be what a boundary means. Isn't that sensation, whatever it is, big or small, completely surrounded by your being, by you? You see? And just look gently. I mean, I know that we can have some spiritual peer pressure here and things, but just for yourself, you're looking for yourself.

My experience is that whatever the sensation may be, I cannot say I'm more on one side and less on that side. Like for example, I have these sensations, you see, these perceptions of these blobs of flesh that we call hands, you see. Now, if you were to ask me, 'Is there more of you contained within this and within that, and less of you contained in the space between them?' I would say no, of course not, you see. What is your experience about this? So I see Ananta's picture also there, you see, and I see all of that. But I cannot distinguish which one I am in all of that, no? It's in the sense some intelligence can operate here, so I can give credence to the construct that I'm speaking as this one, you see, but it's not true. That much is clear, that I am not just the one in that freedom. That much is apparent. But for communication purposes, of course I can say I'm this one. How is it for you? Just look. There's a set of perceptions, and if you are also your body, which you call you, is also there as a set of perception, what makes that one more you than the rest? You see? And then of course don't restrict it just to bodies.

So I can give credence to the construct that I'm speaking as this one, you see, but it's not true. That much is clear, that I am not just the one in that freedom. That much is apparent, but for communication purposes, of course I can say I'm this one. How is it for you? Just look. There's a set of perceptions, and if you are also your body—which you call you—is also there as a set of perception, what makes that one more you than the rest, you see? And then of course, don't restrict it just to bodies; also include the space, because otherwise you will try to mentally be one with every other body that you see, but that will become too effortful. Just naturally, what is the situation? Most naturally, is to make the distinction between me and other more natural, or does that need work? Does that need thought? Oh, there a lot of chat happened in the mean... okay, let's see.

Boundaries are concepts. Yes, it's like we perceive the image of the body and then make a concept of that as me. Exactly, I would agree with that. I take myself to be the body when looking into a mirror. Yes, but to take... so that is okay, because what you're saying is that you are recognizing the effort. It means, you see, you may see... suppose you're surrounded by your family, and you're very close family. So in the mirror you may see three or four bodies, you see. You need effort to determine that that body is you, isn't it? Effortlessly, what is it? So what if this age-old, like from the beginning of spirituality, maybe this kind of proposal has been there that you have to stop taking yourself to be the body? So suppose that this problem was never true anyway, because most naturally I don't take myself to be the body.

For the world, yeah, there seems to be a tendency to try. Yeah, so can we say effortless? Can we say effortless? How do you explain if, say, somebody else is crying, but if she cries, I'm feeling more? Yes, I feel more affected.

Yes, yes, but that's very natural. Right? Well, in the realm of notions, that has become more natural because then what happens is that not only do we have the power to take a bundle of sensations to be me, we also have a power to take a bundle of sensations to be mine, you see. So what happens is that because, okay, you see these which are mine, if something happens, then I'm more affected by that. If they are not mine, you see... so what is the determination? So suppose she's crying, you see, wife is crying and another lady is crying. It is the association with that set of sensations as 'my wife,' no?

So an example of this is that when we first moved into this house many years ago, it was the first time that I had a garden like this. So I started putting some seeds and things like that. Now, before that, I used to water the garden, enjoy everything. Now, after I put those seeds and they started to sprout, I would rush to that part of the garden first and see how those sprouts were doing. There were hundreds of trees, no? And these were just tiny things that I had planted, you see. So they became mine, and all the rest then became not mine. But without that, just naturally, without past, without future, what is the meaning of that set of perceptions? You see, you have to rely on past, no? Suppose you had... it will not happen, but suppose you had amnesia right this moment. Then would the crying of one versus another make a difference? Though your two kids are there, if my two kids were to come, all four were crying, you would not be specially touched by either, you see. So what has happened? That we have conditioned ourselves to take a set of perceptions to have more meaning as 'mine' and another set of perceptions to have lesser meaning as 'not mine.' If it was naturally there, then you would not need your memory for it, no? If you had amnesia, then everyone crying here would mean the same.

You see, so yes, yes, yes. Then how does it come that we've all experienced the world mainly through this one body, not through another body?

Yes, and what do you experience the body through? Through consciousness. Now, because this particular body seems to be at the center of my visual perspective, you see, because it's like that. It's like one of those video games, you know, where the character is in the center and you're looking at everything from that one's perspective. Does that make you the character? You see, it can seem to provide the ground, the fertile ground for that kind of identification. But suppose you had a dream last night. There was another body over there in which, through which—to use your words—you were looking at the rest of the dream, you see. Then what happened to that one now? You see, were you in that body, or was the whole dream in you?

You see, so in the same way, at least we can say that I cannot say for... like, I can completely doubt that I am something which is contained within this body, you see. Because what would I be to be contained within an object? Then I would have to be an object myself, you see. An object can only contain objects, no? So what kind of object would I have to be? Some surgeon, some doctor would have found me by now, isn't it? Right now, you can close your eyes and imagine yourself to be in any location and from the central perspective of a completely different body—it can even be a woman's body, you see—you can just move around and you can have that experience. And if you believe enough thoughts about being that woman, you may even start to get identified with that.

So the mind's perspective about what this life is and what we are in the middle of this is very different from just even your pure perception about it. Forget about your reality, which is so beyond all this manifest, but even in the manifest world, what we take ourselves to be is much more limiting than what we find ourselves just in perception itself. So the nature of attachment, the nature of identification, is this 'me' and 'mine,' no? Without 'me' and 'mine,' can we suffer? The mind may scare you and say, 'But you will become robotic, all your compassion will also go,' but that's not the experience of the sages. When they stop making distinction, it is not that life became all stupid and they could not recognize their own children, you know, this kind of thing. But their view became broader, you see. The perspective became more universal, and the propensity, the ability to share love, to share openly, becomes expanded because you're not looking for reciprocal things anymore. You're not looking for, 'Oh, because I give this one, therefore I want this much in return,' because you cannot find that boundary to yourself.

You find a bundle of perceptions swimming in the sea which is your being, you see, and all of them seem to be moving quite beautifully in the light of consciousness in their own way. The minute we start to say, 'Ah, this is me,' you see, and that 'me' never feels big enough because in our heart we know how big we are. So that little old 'me' never feels big enough. So we say, 'How can we expand on this me?' You see, I want it to become better, bigger. We say, 'Ah, if that one was mine, then I would be better off.' What is that? It's just a way to expand conceptually on 'me,' you know? So yeah, how that one was mine, if this girl was mine, if that car was mine, if that house was mine, you see, then these are the tactics of the 'me' to try and become a bigger 'me' because in the heart it's not liking how tiny it is. And ultimately, faced with death, it has to come face to face, you see. So it tries to make a kind of thing... then what happens is you can still see your death is still coming. So what can I do? I can name a statue in my name, I can name a school in my name, you see. I can do all of that, but there's no escaping it. There's no escaping that this 'me' will not last, you see.

The only escape is to realize what our reality is. What is that that we can find while living that will not die? Then you will see that there is no such boundary, and that which we call 'me' was just a soup of ideas anyway. If the 'me' was just the body, then how could it have trouble in relationships? The body is just fine. If the 'me' was just the body, then how could they have problems at work? You see, which body actually has a bank account? Okay, do you open a bank account for a body? Does the body own the money? What can you do with it? You see, so it's all about the one who is the owner of this body, who's the owner of their life, who's the owner of their possessions, who's the owner of their relationships, and now coming into spirituality, is the owner of their spiritual progress and freedom, you see. So the spiritual search is also as full of trouble as the worldly search. 'How much progress am I making? My experiences... I saw blue light, oh I saw red light.' Like, 'Oh, you only at blue?' You see, all 'my, my, my' experiences.

Was it really about... once we discover that, once we discover that, then you will also find that the Self has no trouble playing whatever roles have to be played. It doesn't have to conform to our mind's ideas of how they have to be played, but you will notice that all the intelligence spouts from that anyway. What makes a bundle of sensations 'mine' is the thought of 'mine,' no? Anything else? Just by calling it 'mine,' can we ensure that it never goes? The 'me' itself is going to go. Thoughtless space, which has no boundaries. So even if a thought was to arrive, it belongs to not an individual, because that individualization is that.

Okay, so maybe I'm causing some confusion, let me clarify. So I am not saying that once you come to the self-discovery, then you will not cry if something happens to your children or something like that. Even we have stories of the Lord himself coming down and crying when his wife was taken from him, you know, these kind of things. So this human conditioning will still play out in tanmatra, in the minuscule qualities, and hopefully we'll never become that robotic. But it will not be oppressive, you see. It will not have the ability to cause suffering like, 'I must have this, and this should only be mine, they should only play like this, this is the way I want my life to be.' All this kind of resistive sort of suffering is quite clean.

It was in the context... initially you said that to whoever this thought... when you surrender it, where does it go? Towards the silent expansive beingness where there was no thought? From where just now when he said 'I don't know'?

So the representation of what we surrender it to is completely unimportant, right? Isn't it? It's just that what we find in our heart, we feel some devotion towards a particular expression of consciousness. The point is to be rid of it from our mental space, you see, and create more openness. So whatever we find that... you may feel devoted towards something, just that gives us the ability to let go of false notions, to deconstruct false notions and offer them up, to let go of our ignorance, you see. So we don't need to be actually concerned about where it actually goes because when I looked earlier in that inquiry, I recognized that everything that was perceived or felt was only felt in the same space. It didn't go to some other space to happen.

Yes, I don't know how to describe that place. And then if it was describable, then it would not be so cool. But the conclusion was it was that which was seeing rather than these eyes or these ears or, you know, this was a medium, but this seeing or knowing place.

You can safely surrender all conclusions. Okay, Jason, thank you. Okay. Lots of hands now. Raju has been there long time, then Cedar. Okay, I can see that the power of this computer is going to die anytime soon, and once you connect, let's see what happens. Just one second, my love. So when we connected the power now, do you hear the beeping has started? The background like a humming? Yes, it has. So can we have the...

Now this was a medium, but this seeing or knowing place, you can safely surrender all conclusions. Okay, Jason, thank you. Okay, lots of hands now. Raju has been there a long time, then Siddha. Okay, I can see that the power of this computer is going to die anytime soon, and once you connect, let's see what happens. Just one second, my love. So when we connected the power now, do you hear the beeping has started in the background, like a humming? Yes, it has. So can we have the other mic we have? Okay. Okay, the audio may not be as good, but it should be reasonable. How is it now? Good, good, good. Okay, so let's go to Raju.

Okay, Father. All right, I just become silent in your presence the whole time and I want to say something and it's just impossible. It's just...

That's not bad news, it's good news. Thank you, thank you, thank you. May I introduce more? Yes, it's here. Hey, good to see you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good. You can go to Siddha next. Oh, Jada? Oh, Siddha. What? I've been pronouncing it all wrong over there.

Whichever you like, Father. I don't have something to say particularly, but first of all, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Actually, I feel like my whole being, my each and every cell, is just tingling with gratitude and I just want to offer this to you because I had a chance in one Sangha gathering to see how you are doing for us and how you mature us. It was such a mirror to see myself and all the other Sangha members who are with you also, like Mahesh too. Like when we are in a meeting and when he picked us all, there was just silence. You are the one actually who makes all this possible, so I truly want to offer all my gratitude and with gratitude also myself too. Thank you for everything that you have done for us, Father. Really, thank you.

Thank you so much. I told you, my Father sent me the best children. So beautiful, thank you.

And I want to share something, open up something. Like, this body was experiencing so much, like a kind of spasm and kind of trembling. It was very rare in the past, but for a very long time I was not experiencing so much, and it again comes up yesterday and I thought to offer this to you. Today also, in Satsang time, it has come. The guidance you have offered was just so beautiful that immediately it comes and it's seen that, yes, like constriction—I think the right word was there—but something relaxed. It was just a feeling. And yes, still, little children, yeah, because it was just so intense feeling. Still some tiredness left from this, but I feel like I'm so happy also we have a time for me to look at this. It's like the identity itself, Father. Like, it comes also as an identity. I know that it's a kind of psychological thing because it comes especially when we speak with people, which means for me in the past, like being a person and all this psychological stuff, of course. What I had a chance to see is that, yes, the feeling, and yeah, it was just identity itself. I could relate, you know? Yes, it was identity itself, but first time maybe I could relate that also the identity is not real. The person is not real.

Very good. That's a beautiful discovery because what happens is we keep taking the person to be real and a problem to be solved. Then every time we take it to be real, it seems like it becomes more real—only seems like, you see. Like I was taking an example last time that if you keep saying, 'Can somebody help me get rid of this heavy brick on my head? Can someone please help me get rid of this heavy brick on my head?' or 'I have to work hard enough to get rid of this brick,' if I repeat it often enough, I will be convinced that there is a brick on my head and I have to be free from it. So every time I see it, I'm actually getting more bound to the idea of there being a brick rather than becoming free of it. So as you are seeing that there is no person there, then what you are seeing is that there is nothing to solve. Because the minute we come into that problem-solving mode, we get back into the intellect and say, 'How do I solve the problem of Maria? Solve the problem of this person?' I'm using the Sound of Music reference, don't worry. So every time you say, 'Okay, there's a person here, how do I get rid of it?' it is the idea that there is something called a tangible person or ego which is here and I need to be rid of it. If you were a tangible entity here, then words could not dissolve it right now. It didn't have to be so.

Father, I miss you.

It would have to be plucked out with some implement. If there was an objective entity called a person, you would have to go in there, pluck it out, and throw it away. The words which are telling you that you are the Self itself and no person ever existed could not clear it up if there was an actual embedded entity there. But Jnana Yoga works because it is reminding you that there is no such problem to be solved. In your natural state, when you don't have a moment to think about it, there is no such thing as a problem. There is no such thing as time. There is no such thing as space, you see. You are beyond all of this.

Yet, Father, we call it as discovery, but it's such a clear and again like the most natural, like nothing has changed, you know? It just real life. Like, I don't want to put so much work, but everything just was this.

And you see, at one level I can say nothing happened because I was always that, and at another level I can say that everything changed, you see. But the point is basically that nothing that we can explain to the intellect—that's why words are inadequate.

What did you say further about intellect?

I'm saying that nothing that we can explain to the intellect happened in the discovery of the Self. That is why the trouble with the words there. So was the discovery new or has it always been there? Both and neither, you see. But can the intellect fathom that? Isn't it so? When we're speaking of the recognition, on one hand it is completely new and changes your world, and on one hand you see that it's always been there. So how to put that in words? It all sounds like nonsense. And why to put into words? You like it. Why put it?

Yet, Father, I feel to also offer this to you. Whenever identity or something starts to play out, please just don't let me go with it. What I mean is, like, yeah, don't let me go try to get rid of it to do something in the world because it's unnecessary tanglements, you know? It creates unnecessary experiencing with people with this. Because I also see in myself that whenever something comes up like this, there is a tendency also to try to solve it outside. I just want to take refuge at your feet on this. Like, just remind me again and again and again. Just always, always, always.

I remind you. I'll remind you. It's a promise. We were sitting with Guruji one day and he had some grapes with him. He had some grapes, you know, and then he was sweetly giving us, no? So what happened is that there was someone sitting—I don't remember who it was—they said, 'Let's play a game, Guruji. I will open my mouth and you have to throw.' And then Guruji said—Guruji is really up for a game—so he said, 'Okay.' So then what happened is that a mouth was open, the grape came here, and this one didn't move even this much to catch it. So Guruji said, 'That is how much you need to do. Most of it I'm doing. I'm aiming, it is going.' When it's coming in your direction, just sometimes you feel like that. It can feel like that to you, that much. So I'm reminding you. I'm saying, 'Look, look, look.' But the feeling to just have that intention in your heart to look when the Master is saying 'look,' that much is all I need. The feeling in the heart to follow along. If that is what we can call openness, you see, if that much openness is there, then I will never tire of pointing you to your reality.

I think there is something in this, Father. Yes, you really remind me, but sometimes I reject it and I myself go and choose to do something because I also love this sense in a way. And this is because in our last conversation I opened this up to you, you know, just so much repression was in this for this one and something has been opened up here. And that's why I love to experience at the same time, like being outspoken. I truly presently enjoy this. But anyway, I also feel like experience is a kind of burden, you know, just so much experiencing. And I heard it from Nisargadatta Maharaj and it just touched my heart so deeply. I don't know exactly the thing, but someone just approaching him and he was saying that, yes, experiencing itself is a burden, like it's a heavy thing. And yeah, this one, I want to offer this to you, but let there be no needs for so much experiencing to learn.

I can clarify a little more on this topic. So one of the most beautiful words we've all heard from Maharaj, and Guruji repeats this often, he says: 'You are not experiencing suffering, but you are suffering your experiencing.' So in the experience here, I noticed that in pure experience—and 'pure' is not a moralistic pure, it is independent of judgment—pure perception which is independent of judgment, interpretation, wanting, pushing away, all of those postures, it is completely fine. It never becomes suffering. It doesn't matter whether we are in sleep state or we are in waking state, you see. It is only when we start to interpret, to label, to judge, to make distinction, do we have the suffering of the waking state. So actually nothing has changed between sleep state and waking state. The whole universe of experiencing can show up and the whole universe of experiencing may dissolve, but when we build a relationship conceptually with the objects of experience, that is when suffering starts, you see. And this is the way we are suffering our experiencing; we're not really experiencing any suffering. So you can try this. It may seem like a simple exercise, but just look around the room and don't judge anything. Don't look around the room, look around everything around you. Don't label anything, don't judge anything. Can it become tiring? It may seem initially effortful if our habit is to label, then the dropping of the label may seem like there is some effort involved in that. But actually it's worth making that seeming effort to become effortless, because then you spend most of your life not suffering from anything that you are experiencing. You're just enjoying the colors and the taste and the light and the sound. The need to grasp or the need to push away, which is the same, the need to own or the need to disown, you see, that is what causes all the trouble. Does any experience in itself have suffering inherent in it? Nothing. And it is the resistance which tires us. It is the suffering that tires us. So the experiencer mode can tire us. If we take ourselves to be like an individual experiencer of the world, then that can tire us. But without any such mode of operation, just natural, natural, it's all just fine. No difference in sleep and waking up. I'm not talking about the body, by the way, because the waking state will tire the body; that is naturally how it is built. I'm talking about the psychological tiredness. This is the real tiredness.

Exactly, because it's not so much. So Father, then I just want to offer all misconceptions, misunderstanding, all the blind spots which create this experiencer at your feet. The things that I'm aware of, the things which I'm not aware of, just everything, I just place them at your feet.

That's a good, good, very good attitude to have. Just openness. Everything is Father's problem.

Yes, I just love you so much and thank you.

It is built. I'm talking about the psychological tiredness. This is the real tiredness, exactly, because it's not so much so.

Father, then I just want to offer all misconceptions, misunderstanding, all the blind spots which create this experience there at your feet. The things that I'm aware of, the things which I'm not aware of, just everything, I just place them at your feet.

That's a good, good, very good attitude to have. Just openness. Everything is Father's problem.

Yes, I just love you so much and thank you for everything. It's just thank you.

Okay. I don't know who came when, but I see Georgina and Brahas. Hello. I can't see you. How about now? Can you see me now?

Yes, it's good to see you.

Same thing.

I raised my hand when we were doing the body contemplation. That seemed like centuries ago. Yeah. So you put your hand like this and, or I think you put two hands like this, and then you said, and then you asked—I can't remember exactly—but it was like, how can I actually say that this is more me than the space between the two hands, I think?

Yeah, yeah, okay.

And then you said, no, I can't say that. And that created a little confusion here because the contemplation itself, it sort of mixes the world of my perception with who I am. And when it comes to myself, I can't say that it has anything to do with the world of perception. So how can I do this contemplation?

Yes, okay. So let me clarify a bit. So what I'm saying is that in this world, if I had to call anything myself, then what would make me call myself more in these hands than in the space between them? There's nothing like that.

No, no, but I would say that if I have to be honest, I would say that that's because you taught me to not find myself in what I perceive.

Yes, yes. Okay, so now go to that place where you don't find yourself in what you perceive. Go to that intuitive space now. Is there anything left which is inside or outside or manifest or unmanifest? Is there something like perceived and unperceived?

No, I don't even understand that anymore. Like, no.

Is there something which you can say you are and you are not?

No, that would be like too much of a question. Like, I don't even know how to answer that.

So all distinctions then dissolve. So okay, so what I can tell you is that if you go this way, right, and include everything manifestation within you—yeah, because consciousness has the ability to do that—and say, 'This is me, but this is also me, and this is also me, and the space is also me, and all of time is also me.' Consciousness has the ability to do that. And you will see that all the boundary is just where consciousness wants to set it. If it says that this notion is my boundary, so this universe is my boundary, it can set it there conceptually. And if it says nothing—I think I lost you in the last part. Yes. So if we say, for example, that the universe, which is one linear moment of time and space, that is my boundary, consciousness has the prerogative to do that. But if it says all possibilities that have ever happened in time and space is where my boundaries lie, it can also do that. Okay, so what happens is that we can be fully, fully, fully inclusive and then become fully inclusive. Then don't forget to include that which witnesses all of this as well and say, 'I am also that.' So now we have included everything in the manifest, in every manifest possibility, as well as that which witnesses every manifest and the manifest and the manifest possibility into ourselves. And we come to the same point that we come to if you were to negate everything that is manifest and to leave that aside, you see? And this we have in a highlight somewhere. So in the two parts of spirituality, one being fully inclusive, including inclusion—because most people don't like to do Neti Neti, most people don't like to negate and say 'not this, not this, not this.' They would rather say 'also this, also this.' And we also this, also this, also this; include everything, everything, everything, everything. Include every manifest possibility as well as that which witnesses every manifest possibility, which is beyond the manifest, and you come to the same space in your heart where you would come to if you were to say, 'I am not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this.'

But then can I say something? Then I would like, again, to be honest, I would have to say that in order to include everything as myself, I would have to resort either to trust in your words or a sort of memory, which I don't trust, of having seen that. But I don't really trust that. But I know that I've seen that. But like right now, I can't say that I am anything that I can perceive.

So I want to say one thing to you: that you don't have to do both, in the sense that for some, including seems more natural; for some, Neti Neti is more natural. Whatever feels more natural, you stay with that, okay? Because it is bringing you to the same point. So but my main message is that do one of these two fully. And it seems like we are doing the Neti Neti. We don't now need to become all-inclusive and things like that. You stay with that. You're coming to the same discovery of no distinction, you see? Nothing to include or exclude, no manifest, no unmanifest, no nothing about nothing, no nothing also, which is the same point you would come to if you were to fully include. So it's not that you have to do both. Based on our temperament and our conditions, we are naturally attracted to one of the two. But the trouble is we leave it halfway. And you're not leaving it halfway, which is good. So if you're fully in the negation, letting go of all perception, all concepts, then you're coming to the same discovery as if you were to include everything within yourself. Okay? Yes. All I'm saying is that there seem to be two apparent paths which we can work on, but they both need the same end point, you see? But we must take a path and work on it fully. Beautiful, perfect, perfect.

Thank you, Father. Thank you for helping me clarify this because there could be some confusion like this for others as well. So yeah. And I heard Rupert talk about this before, the path of inclusion and exclusion, and it actually was a little confusing when I heard him talk about this, and now you've clarified it beautifully.

Confusing actually is good news. I don't know, I don't take it so badly. So what that really means is that you don't have a good answer in your intellect, which is a beautiful openness.

It's true. Thank you, Father. Thank you so much. Thank you. I love you.

Thank you. Okay, then that's all nice. Okay, are you good here? All good, beyond good and not good. I am happy, you know. Are you happy with the message? Are you happy without a message? To suffer, you need a thought or something. To be happy, you don't need anything. Whichever master we look at, they're all pointing us to, telling us that in our most natural, most original state, it is just so. I don't want to say perfect because you can have an idea of okay, but it is just so what it is. And I am very grateful for this opportunity to meet you.

Oh, welcome. I'll be something, you know. Yeah, always wanted to hide, you know.

So what can happen sometimes is that, no, firstly, I completely understand the spirit of what you're saying and fully, fully accept it in my heart. But what I want to point to is also that many times we may feel like we can authoritatively say something about how something has always been, but we actually never can. There are some minor, minor fragments of the past, like we can't remember more than twenty things from yesterday, ten things from the day before yesterday, five things from the day before that. Then we say—again, I understand the spirit of what you're saying—but don't be conclusive about that. Because when we say something, it's a very broad statement to make to say something always wanted to hide. Like, do we really know that? So when we make that a part of our narrative, you should propose part, you know. And right now a lot of gratitude may come because of that because you may say, 'Oh, now there's so much openness compared to that and there's no fear.' But you know that same narrative the mind will push at you and try to involve you in its stories again and say, 'Ah, you see, go back into hiding because that is where you're comfortable.' You always get in. So don't accept any of these concepts if you cannot say for sure. And I can tell you that you cannot say for sure about these things. Then don't accept that narrative as a prevailing narrative of your life. You are much broader than that. In one day, you are so much broader than a term like 'always wanting to hide' can continue. God is living your life. God is living your life. I'm sure that every expression of life, no matter how full of contrast and everything oppressive, still God must have had something beyond just what we can fit in our narrative. And what happens is, I don't mind, like you can present every aspect of your expression, but if you take the narrative to be true about an expression of consciousness which is the body-mind, you see, then it can seem like consciousness plays in a much more restrictive way. Yeah, sometimes hiding, sometimes showing, it's all okay. The trouble is that this kind of pointing is deeply unsatisfying to the mind because it says, 'So then what has happened to me?' And without the backstory, it doesn't know which future frames to try and include in the story, you see? Like everything gets momentum because of the backstory. So now if there's no backstory, like we can't really say anything about what is really happening, then which direction should we propel this life in? And that can seem too, too broad. I can put a happy story, I can put a sad story, I can put a joyful story, I can put a story full of mountains, I can follow the story full of skyscrapers. It doesn't matter because nothing, no narrative from the past is propelling this now. So I then I don't have to fix it. Oh, because I've always wanted to hide, now I always want to be open. You see, then this kind of position, you know all of that, and life is just so fresh and open every moment. So what has happened to you? How has it always been? Can we really say? And I'm just using, of course I'm not ranting at you, Saranas, in any way. I'm just using that phrase as an opportunity to share with all of us that sometimes we can have these very broad categorical narratives about our life, but they don't have a valid representation. They don't have a true representation. They don't represent you, your experience, even your manifest experience fully, even though it may seem like a dream, you see? Even the dream is not represented well in our story about the dream. This is not some little old me living this life. No, it is God itself. And God has never been held hostage to any life situation. Even in the seemingly worst of times, some moments of other things have come. They have to come. So 'always' is too big. The 'always' is much too big. Always been this, always been that. It's just, it's just in this case, of course, it's an expression of gratitude which again I'm saying I believe that we appreciate and love, but I'm just cautioning everyone against these broad sort of story narratives. Yeah, broad in the sense just all-encompassing. Yeah, in the sense that it's too—

To be okay. Yesterday was quite a bright day.

So it's like, what is the right way to see it? It's too generic, maybe we can say generic.

No, no, it's good to clarify because the word I'm using a certain way, you may be hearing a certain way. So it's always helpful to clarify it.

You see, what I mean is too generic a representation of a life which is so full of varied colors and shades and sizes and shapes. So, and what happens is because it is too much like we were talking about—

Yesterday was quite a bright day. So, it's like, what is the right way to see it? It's too generic. Maybe we can say generic to—no, no, it's good to clarify because the word I'm using a certain way, you may be hearing a certain way. So it's always helpful to clarify it, you see? What I mean is too generic a representation of a life which is so full of varied colors and shades and sizes and shapes. And what happens is, because it is too much—like we were talking about big numbers the other day—in the same way, in a much bigger way, the mind cannot deal with one day of your life. So how will it capture 40 years and say, 'This is what my life has been,' you see? And we feel like without that, I'm just completely lost, you see? So we feel like I have to be able to describe it in this way. So we create this generic sort of thing and we say that, 'Oh, this expression of being I can represent in this generic thing.' But what happens is that they may start off as that kind of generic representation, but we start taking it to be true, you see? Like a lie repeated often enough starts to seem like it is the truth. And you just be like, 'That's all my life has been. My life, my whole life has been this.' Nobody can say that, whatever you may put after this.

So they're just convinced that we are going to a very small instrument to get insight about something which is much larger. And that instrument is used to these kind of things, and it has these tactics of using generic terminology to be able to define that which is so beyond definition. So, in all of our conclusions about what our past has been like, what our life has been like, it's a measly press interview. It is not truly true. So what happens is then we fall into this simplistic sort of position that 'this is what my problem was,' and then we look for simplistic sort of solutions saying, 'Ah, I've always been this way, so I have to now become the opposite of that.' Then that becomes a new position, which will then become simplistic, and then you have to go back to some other fresh position, you see? So we don't actually end up cleaning it up. We don't actually end up cleaning it up.

Firstly, the mind will not tell you that, 'I'm too small to be able to decipher your life. I'm too small, I can't do it. I cannot decipher your life in a meaningful way.' It will not say that. I am telling you, for the mind, it is just not going to happen. So don't go to this tiny instrument to be able to get some truth about yourself, you see? And I'm not even just saying Truth with a capital T; I'm even saying a manifest pattern of appearances—it cannot tell you accurately. So now if you leave those aside, now we feel too naked. We feel too open, too empty, and we feel like we would rather go back to the limiting story because at least I have some definition and I can say, 'This is what I really want after this. This is how I want my life to go.' Is it too much, what I'm saying? Yeah, I feel like I'm trying to explain simply, but it can seem a bit abstract at times.

But the whole thing is, this is how the mind, using language, captures. Like, tell me what your life was yesterday, since we want to talk about the past. For example, can anyone tell me really? Like, wife may say, 'This is what happened,' then husband will say, 'What? You're forgetting that part.' And then we had that conversation. Kids will say, 'Why? You played with me also.' So can we really, really make a valid representation? And what is the need to? We only feel like we need those to be able to define some future for ourselves, or resolve something, or to fix something that is not true. Firstly, our memory is so tiny. It will show tiny, tiny instances, and in that, we feel like it helps us to be able to determine things. But actually, what we are doing is we are making references to ourselves which are so tiny compared to the immensity of your reality, that it becomes the life of God which is playing out through every expression of God itself, then seems like the measly life of little old me, caught between birth and death with no real answers to anything at all. Why do we exist? We don't know. What does it mean to know something? We don't know. How to live a good life? We don't know. What is it? In that limited representation, we are nothing. We're really nothing. Okay, I'm going to stop rambling now.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you.

Okay, because I had some audio problems last time, but that's good. Um, I raised my hand and put it down a few times. I don't know why.

Was it about the same thing every time, or that something was there, then it got resolved, and a new thing came and that got resolved? Was it like that?

I think so. I think so, because it's just nothing is really like strong, like holding on strongly and for too long. And then listening has changed a little bit. Like, the listening to satsang feels like surface scum on a pond—I don't know, that's just the visual I have—and it gets cleared away. And there's been an understanding that nothing, no concept, will be it. Yeah, and that the mind cannot go there, know it. And that there's not even anything to know, even if there's the urge to know it. And that all you've been saying is—you're not saying anything, you're just clearing away the scum.

Yes, yes, that's very good. That's very good. Because that revelation—that I don't need a constructive exercise to build onto and become myself, all I need is these false narratives, the false labeling, all the limited notion-making, all that to be deconstructed—and the ever-shining Self is just so apparent. That's it.

And I had originally messaged you after a satsang with Mooji because there was the pattern of a lot of burning to happen every time I was with him. And I saw it as regressing. I thought, 'Gosh, I'm not getting it. I'm regressing. I'm not—I'm going back.' And that's not true. It was just burning. It was just hidden residue that was hidden in me that had to burn like that. And I saw it as going backwards, but it wasn't.

Very happy, very happy to hear that. Thank you. Oh, good. So good. It looks like you feel to say something else?

I don't know what else to say. Like, I just want to be innocent in this, like a child, and to stay here. We listen. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, we will go to Deharsh and have here. Okay, the hands just keep going. Okay, just a few more. Namaste.

Namaste. I'm giving you some background noise. Can everyone else mute me if you're unmuted? Um, good. I don't know what to say.

That's very good.

Yeah, but I don't think it's very good.

You don't think so? What are you not thinking? That's very—to be not thinking something else.

I have—maybe I framed the question and I—how are you without a question? That's very difficult. I mean, usually that's how it's right. I don't usually have a question. Only, as you say, it's effort to bring up a question now. It's like, particularly in front of this, very difficult to bring up a question.

And why must we have a question? You were there in the satsang where we were exploring this a bit. We were saying, 'So what is the question, actually?'

I don't think so. Good. So it's a worthy question. What is the question? A question seems to be some kind of an effort to expand. Is it an effort to expand or to define? Define something. There is an effort to not go to intellectual representations, and I'm finding that itself very difficult because natural tendency is to pull up everything as a problem and try to find all sorts of stupid answers.

Well, it can feel like it has become natural to us out of habit, but I wouldn't say that that was the most natural way you were born. That's pretty obvious, but very difficult. So now can we try together? Just be empty of any intellectual representation.

Well, when you say that, there's no thoughts, there's nothing. I don't know how to be more empty. Like, say this part again. It was not so clear when you—

Yes. So is it effortful? You're saying it's so natural to be empty of representation?

Yeah, but there is not such an acceptance to that somehow.

What would acceptance mean? Okay, that is—is acceptance—what is the acceptance you want? An intellectual representation of acceptance? I'm just trying to clarify with you. I'm not saying you—I'm just asking what would it mean? That would mean I wanted my words to come from you or something like that.

Well, what's so much fun about words? Just let's leave words aside. Suppose we forgot language for a moment. Then there won't be any thoughts, nothing to think about, no worries, no problem. I would be next. And now let's explore whether just the mere appearance of language as the mind causes all these worries and stress and suffering and limitation. Is it in the mere appearance of them?

I feel empty. I mean, like there's no thoughts. And there is no problem as such to solve, and I'm not particularly worried about it either.

Yes. So so many times it can feel like there's something unnatural in them. Can this be like, 'I don't have really—I don't have a problem,' you see? And that can seem like my only problem at the moment. Because our habit has been so much, like you said very beautifully actually, that our habit has been so much to pull everything into our intellect and say, 'Okay, now what is the problem here? How do I resolve this?' you see? Now when we are empty of all of them, then the only intellectual representation can be, 'But what's my problem now? This is too strange. How can I not have a problem?'

That's a very good problem to have. But there is something a little tricky here. Because first, for example, when you spoke about the body, how do you know this is the boundary? Yeah, it was probably pretty obvious in the first instance when I heard that, that okay, it makes sense. But then next thought that came up converting the initial—so pause for a moment. So when you say it was obvious, was it obvious because it made sense, or was it obvious because you saw it to be so?

It was seen to be seen. But then it could only make sense. Then something else will make sense tomorrow and it will not seem as obvious to us, you see?

So you're getting the distinction? When you say, 'Ah yes, it makes sense what you're saying,' and understand this rationally or logically, but then another proposition can come to you tomorrow from another mouth and that may seem logical, make logical sense as well, and then we just keep switching between everything that seems to make sense from moment to moment, but there's no actual discovery. So when you say that it is obvious because it makes sense, what you're saying is that because you saw it to be so, you saw that there is no boundary to your being?

No, no. Maybe what I'm saying is when I heard it first time, it was felt as very appealing. And it's difficult to distinguish if appealing intellectually or directly.

That's a good contemplation. That's a good contemplation. Because being spiritual seekers, we may have an attraction towards these spiritual-sounding concepts, but that is still trying to create a house of cards of concepts, you see? So when we are talking about contemplation or looking, we're just saying—it's not about saying, 'Yes, yes, I have no boundaries, ah, that sounds very nice.' It's not about that. It is more to see: Where is my boundary? Where do I start? Where do I end? And there's a lot of effort and energy and the very instance to actually find things like, 'Okay, there is a double sweet bag.' Even in thoughts, if I'm sad and I'm watching it, there's again a double. I know it's stupid, but I can make things up pretty quickly in that direction. Go somewhere, I know it will never end. So whenever—

It's not about saying, 'Yes, yes, I have no boundaries.' That sounds very nice, but it is more to see: where is my boundary? Where do I start? Where do I end? There's a lot of effort and energy and the very instance to actually find things like, okay, there is a double sweet bag. Even in thoughts, if I'm sad and I'm watching it, there's again a double. I know it's stupid, but I can make things up pretty quickly in that direction, go somewhere I know it will never end. So whenever I'm in the satsang with you, there is always some block to somehow listen and just don't process it, just pass it on.

I'm fine with that. I'm actually fine with that. If you're listening and not storing up and the words are just allowed to go through, I am actually finding that, in fact, that is better. The other option is what? Just think about it and see? No, no, no. First is fine. If you're going to sit and think about it and create a perspective, you know, then that is when I don't want you involved. I don't want you involved. Just that was fine. Let it enter, let it go. It's fine. That's what our parents used to get upset about, but I am happy with it. It's fun.

Yeah, in Malayalam, this is like one ear is for in and one is for out again.

So I'm absolutely fine, you see? Because if the words go somewhere you can't understand them, you don't know what to do with them, and to your mind it seems like it's one ear in, other ear out, it's completely fine.

Thanks a lot. And there's one more little spot, probably very, very small. Okay, again, I keep hearing about the... well, we cannot describe it and it's beyond mind and things like that. But there are very attractive ideas like infinity and kind of things, mathematical fun you can have with infinity, and things like chaos theory and things like that which are also in these ways. So it is extremely indescribable, infinite. And so even though I keep learning that, okay, the truth is beyond all that, but there are other things also beyond all this.

Yes, yes. If your attraction is towards that which your mind cannot fathom... we were just saying that the mind is very tiny. Was it in broadcasting? Yes. You're saying that if I say, 'Okay, imagine ten oranges,' you see, you can start with three oranges. You can imagine three oranges, no? Now imagine ten; it's starting to stretch a bit, but you can do it. Now imagine twenty; it's starting to become very broad, no? Now imagine a hundred; now you're losing track, you see? Now imagine ten million. You see, so the mind will still offer you some visuals of oranges all over like that, but there's no way that you can say, 'I am accurate about this.' So if your attraction now is to ideas which the mind cannot fathom, then my full blessing for that is fine. It is going to just expand you beyond your intellect. It's completely fine. And let me see if I can bring her again. Yesterday was her birthday. Last time I could say hi.

So thank you. All my blessings to the little one and full love from all of us. Thank you, thanks a lot. Love you all.

So the mind can use these ideas because it has a representation of them, like it has a representation of ten million. You see, it will tell you, 'Yeah, I know what ten million is,' but it doesn't, because it is beyond its capacity. It starts losing capacity at ten, twenty, thirty—small quantities. So it's a very tiny instrument and we try to use it to measure our life, our story, and that is not helping. That is just creating such a limited representation of what you are. So if you are studying things in science and things which are beyond the mind and some... my kids would call it mind-blowing, that's not bad actually. It's fine. Okay, Javier can come. Is it Xavier or Javier? How you say? Namaste.

Namaste. It's Javier. Very good, it's very good. Thank you. I think that I raised my hands by mistake.

That's good. I'm happy to have met in this way and all my love, all my blessings to you.

Me too, thank you.

Okay, thank you. Good. Okay, we have Edgard. The last one that this body has the energy to take is Edgard. And I know it's going to be beautiful because this boy is amazing.

I feel like I'm committing a sin by just speaking to you, like I know that you're tired right now.

No, no, no, no. I'm happy to hear you. I'm happy to hear you.

I was listening to what the other participants were saying and I was kind of having fun. And you know, now I see that I've totally forgotten my so-called important problem or something like that. It's liberating to know that. And you know what happened like years and months ago... like yesterday I was very intent on the inquiry and I would say that it had beautiful results in a short period of time. I am only speaking about one day or less than that. So the inquiry has brought a lot of beautiful results and now I'm very... I was enthusiastic but not so much because there is not like a tension or passion. It's relaxed, you know? I feel very good about that. And you know what I've been experiencing is that even that state like a day ago, it's already passed. It's not the same feeling. It's not accompanied by the same thoughts. The overall experience has changed and now what came to my mind is: if that which was beautiful is also not permanent, then what am I aiming for? Because previously I had aimed for the peace, the joy, the thoughtless state. But for example, one hour or two hours ago I was not in that state, but I was initially troubled by not having the same state experience. But then I turned back and said, 'Well, it's not that bad. It was also meant to pass.' And that brought me to peace again, you know? I raised my hand then and lowered it, and then raised it again, but I'm not sure what is like the burning question or something like that. So just wanted to share it with you.

I'm happy. Very good, very good. I'm very happy with you, I have to say. Very happy. Thank you. Continue to bring this openness, this emptiness, this pure insight, intuitive insight into your life and may it never get caught up in spiritual ego or specialness or any of that. Meaning you just be though. Okay, last one. Anuj wants to come.

Since I came back from Bangalore, just be open and empty and every problem which ever is there, you must think that this is Father's problem, Guruji's problem. Yes, but around 16th of March there was a big one. A court case was going on and I made a lot of efforts in past few years to get that stay, but it could not happen. But on this particular date I just said, 'This is Father's problem, this is his problem, this is not my problem now. He will look after whatever is going to happen.' So Father, we got that stay. One duplicator was duplicating our product and now we got the stay. And thank you so much for giving such grace, blessings, Father. I just want to thank you so much.

Very happy. I'm very happy. Of course, all my love and blessings. But trust, grace, whichever way, it's very good. So the true test is when the same gratitude is there even when things don't go according to our minds or the outcome that we want. So that is my tip for you. I want to give all my love and pranams. Good, good, good. Okay. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Guruji.