The Three Pillars of Spirituality – Unperceivable Insight, Love & Servitude - 30th October 2023

So to empty ourselves of avidya, to empty ourselves from false notions of 'me,' is the starting point as well as the lifelong endeavor even after so-called awakening, even after so-called enlightenment. That is why even Papaji said, 'Vigilance until my dying breath,' which he reminded me actually. So who are we serving at this moment? What is our life about right now? What do we want? So full of grasping, full of desire, full of attaching to things—all that is going to be shared in terms of true spirituality will seem too difficult, too far out, and too absurd. Both in terms of what the discovery is, as well as the way of life that is going to be offered, is going to sound too strange if we continue to take ourselves to be this body made of mud and we take the proposals of the mind to be reality. Then true spirituality will seem too far out.

So start by just becoming empty of the false. Return to an innocence which is there within you, that you don't know much but you're here. You don't know much, or better, nothing at all, but you're here. So in the last few days if you picked up a lot of spiritual ideas or knowledge, empty, empty, empty. It can happen when we take a break from Satsang. Return to the sheer innocence of an infant and just be here. Just that much. But the grace of the presence in Satsang is very helpful. So if our life is going to be a temple of God, but there's already a movie theater there or a drama company at least, then we have to first demolish that. So just empty yourself of whatever constructs we may have and naturally you may find that your presence is already starting to shine through. Already the absurdity may begin.

So let's start from this point. We are empty of conceptual ideas, but that we are here, that we are, is undeniable. Yes? So if I ask you a very simple question, and it is very simple if you don't give it to the mind, and I just ask you: Who is aware of this 'I am-ness' or 'here-ness'? What would you say? Who is aware of that? Let's call it something, although it is furthest from 'something.' Something is aware of that or no? Now that knowledge that you are, the presence is here, is it secondhand or is it direct? It is opposed to the kind of knowledge where I say the world is spherical, the Earth is spherical—you heard it or you've seen a photograph of it which you may take to be true. So let's put that learned knowledge in the category of secondhand. That you are, are you aware of that firsthand or secondhand?

Everyone? Or is this just because you've heard it in Satsang and everyone talks about it? Well, everyone in this type of Satsang at least. No, you're not confirming your presence based on something that you learned. You're aware of it directly. So the question is very simple: Are you here now? You're here. So that which is present, you are aware of it or you just heard about it? You're aware of it. Now this 'you' that is aware, what can we say about that? What color is it? What is its color?

Doesn't have color.

Okay, so it doesn't have color. What about the shape?

Doesn't have shape.

But how can that be? The mind will come and say that you're fooling yourself, there is no such thing as colorless, shapeless, because everything should have shape, everything should have color. What do you say? Any quality you can see? Any attribute to this 'I' that is aware? What are you finding? Not thinking, just be careful not to think. Like, thoughts can come and go but don't bother with them. What are you finding? You are aware. This 'you,' tell me one attribute which is true about it. Don't think.

Always there.

Always there. How can we say such a thing? Are you always there? You were born, no? You're going to die. So when we say 'always there,' are we talking about limited between birth and death? No. So already absurd insights are coming which are timeless. You see that? It doesn't have color, shape, or size, but you can tell that it's always there. A scientist will say, 'Show it to me, prove it to me empirically. On what basis are you saying?' You cannot prove the basis like that. If I say, 'How do you know?' you say, 'I just know.' And be careful not to jump into 'What does this mean?' because 'What does this mean?' actually means 'What does this mean for me? Am I finding it?' No, you're not. 'Am I doing this correctly?' No, absolutely wrong. But keep going like that. Just let go of all of this blackmail from the mind. It is not going to help you along the way on this path. You cannot check with these traditional instruments.

Now some of your minds are already taking you into trouble, into a dizzy, because they are saying, 'But I cannot confirm that it's always there, isn't it? I cannot confirm it's always there. I can just confirm that I am aware.' Okay, so you don't rush. Already you're saying that there is an 'I' which doesn't have a quality, shape, size, color, because you are aware. Tell me something which is true for you for this 'I.' Is this 'I' touched by anything that may happen in perception? Can it be heard? Can it improve? Can it make progress? Even for progress you need at least one quality, isn't it? That which has to improve, it needs to have at least one color, one shade which is a light red, you want it to become a bright red. You make all that progress, isn't it? But here you're not finding any quality. And that awareness itself which is aware even of perception, you can immediately tell that it cannot have a better or a worse.

Father, is it powerful? Is it powerful?

Is that an attribute? Powerful in what way? In a sense that does it have muscles? No, it doesn't have muscles. Then how is it powerful? That it can just like... what can it do? I would say it is all-powerful, but not in the way that we can conceptualize. Because at one level it's just a sheer witnessing. Where is the notion of power there? There is just witnessing. But either intuitively or just even rationally, we are bound to conclude its power because we notice that this is all there is. And if this is all there is, then all that is perceived must also come from there. All that is perceived that we call the universe or the world must also come from there. But if it is just a conceptual, inferred conclusion, then it cannot be resolved. But if you allow it to just remain intuitive, then we may say from the 'I am-ness' a whole arises. That's supreme power, no?

If you are that from which an infinity can arise and yet you remain untouched, that is the crux of it, isn't it? That from a wholeness, a whole arises, and yet the initial remains untouched, unchanged. Why this is so important is because it is completely contrary to worldly law. If you have some potential energy—you're talking about—if you have some potential energy and that translates into manifest or expressed energy, then what happens to the potential? It depletes. So the spring has potential energy when it is squeezed like that, but when it's let go, it expresses itself in movement and the potential energy is gone. But the Self is that powerful that from itself this whole universe, an infinite universe in infinite time and infinite space arises, and yet it remains untouched. And sages said this thousands of years ago. How is it known? In the same way that he said it is always there—just intuitively so. Because 'power' is such a limiting word which is a worldly construct, it doesn't really... and none of the worldly constructs truly 100% apply to reality when we need...

The potential energy is gone, but the Self is that powerful that from itself this whole universe—an infinite universe in infinite time and infinite space—arises, and yet it remains untouched. Sages said this thousands of years ago. How is it known? In the same way that he said: it is always there, just intuitively so. Because 'power' is such a limiting word, which is a worldly construct; it doesn't really, and none of the worldly constructs truly 100% apply to reality. When we need its power or its intelligence or its love or its peace or its joy intuitively, and don't try to understand it mentally, then we can come to its true recognition, its true darshan. But if you try to understand it saying, 'But it is literally no thing, it has no attribute, so how can it be powerful? And powerful to the extent that all emerges from that and yet it remains untouched?' Does it come close to answering your question?

In the sense that, say, powerful—it's like the outer circumstances or whatever it is, it overcomes that. Meaning, when you are there, all that doesn't matter. I don't know how to explain, actually.

We realize that it's not that it stops mattering because of that; we realize in the insight about that, that our reality is that it never really mattered. We have taken something which is just a dance of light and sound, okay, and we have taken that to be meaningful to that which is the unperceivable reality of ourself. That is the power of belief, of avidya: to believe that, to take that which is not true about ourselves to be true about ourselves. Which means that we take ourselves to be the wrong self to start with in the misbelief, in the avidya, and then all kind of nonsense is true. When we come to a true insight about who we are, we recognize that nothing can hurt me, nothing can cut me, nothing can burn me. As Shri Krishna said in the Gita, that I cannot be hurt.

So of course, at a worldly level also it is helpful because you feel that you have a refuge from the world. You stay in the Satguru's presence and that which seemed to be so oppressive in the world now doesn't seem to matter. It seems that circumstances themselves change. I was saying the other day that we presume that God can help only in the future, but God can also change the past, which we can know only intuitively. Like in your mind, the past is already—I'm going too far with this stuff probably. Okay, let's stick to the basis.

So yes, so that 'I' which is aware of presence, is that visible or invisible? It's just silent. It's invisible yet recognized. Invisible yet recognized. So either all of us are crazy, or you are discovering something which is not commonly seen like this in the world: that there is an 'I' which is a sheer witnessing, there's a sheer awareness, you see. But I know it not because I can see it, but just because somewhere I know it. And this 'somewhere' where I know it is not my usual house. My usual house is where I know things because I've learned them, but I have to leave that house, become empty of that, and then I can recognize this.

Traditionally it was said that this kind of knowledge, Brahma Vidya, Brahman, is very, very rare. I've spoken to some traditional spiritual teachers and they said, 'Why are you doing the Ashtavakra? It is not for everyone. Very few will actually get it.' And maybe it is true, but it doesn't seem to be true in the world that shows up in front of me. I feel like it is fairly straightforward actually, but it needs an innocence, needs an openness. So maybe God sends me those who are innocent or pure-hearted or open, because I look at each of you and I don't feel like it is difficult for any of you.

So maybe that itself is a mind trick which has made the most simple knowledge—it's like one of the defenses being, 'But no point going there because who's going to get it anyway?' With the treasure which is hidden in plain sight, then that becomes a mental deflection: 'Don't look for it because you'll never find it anyway.' But actually, if you're not so caught up in your ego, in yourself, then what I'm saying is very simple. How could you do this wrong? You could do this wrong by saying, I'm saying 'Are you here?' and you're just thinking, 'Yeah, of course. What kind of stupid question is that? Of course I'm here.' So you're not checking, you're just thinking. So that is one way to do it wrong: 'Of course I'm here, now what do you want then? And who's aware of this hereness? I only must be, no?' But outwardly you're just like... so that is the way you could be doing this mentally.

But I don't see that in your eyes. So either you are acting very well, or it is not as difficult as it is made out to be. Are you just doing it like that inside? You're just like, 'I only... he's going to say I am aware.' Like that kind of process? Or is it just, 'I can check right now. I can check who is aware of this person I am.' And I'm not expecting, of course, that your mind is all shut up and following quietly. It must be resisting, it must be deflecting, it must be giving you false goals and ideas of enlightenment and progress, and all of that may be happening. But the sheer looking, the simplicity of that looking, is quite straightforward actually.

Then the question which may grab you is to say, 'But who is this one? I don't know whether it's I.' This is a common one, no? 'I don't know. He's saying it is I which is aware, I can't confirm that.' So try to not take it as you. You don't be aware. Let something else be aware. Can you do it? Like someone else, let that other thing be aware of presence. You don't be. Try to not be aware. So don't try to find it, try to lose it. Be unaware. Yes? Can you do it? No. It is you. You can't help it. Anyone needs more time with this? We can pause here if you want because this trips many of you up.

I say just we can confirm to ourselves that you're not perceiving this 'I', you're not finding it through perception, and that it is not just a product of your thinking or intellect. Yes? The one that is aware of the perception of this hand, you're not perceiving, isn't it? Not perceiving. Anyone perceiving it with me? Anyone perceiving that one which is aware of the hand? You're not perceiving it and you're not just thinking about it. It is apparent to you that you are aware. How it is apparent is impossible for the mind to fathom. It just is.

So this is the... this unperceivable reality is the non-space space for the altar to be constructed. Don't worry if the words are confusing. It is... there's a beautiful bhajan which says—it's in the movie Delhi 6—so what is that? The hall in... Guruji uses the word 'bhawan' very... because Papa used to have satsang, and satsang bhawan. Bhawan is basically the hall in which... so in the bhajan it is said that in your bhawan does the light emerge. So what is that hall? The hall is this unperceivable reality which can be the birthing ground for even the light of Consciousness. That cannot be worldly. Consciousness is the light of the whole universe, so what can be the birthing ground for Consciousness itself cannot be worldly. So it is this awareness itself, this pure innocence, in which the light of being and the light of God, the light of Consciousness, can emerge.

Now you realize the value of emptiness. See, because to come to the discovery of this Self seems so simple, but try to take yourself to be something or have some notion of wanting something or grasping something while you're at it and see what happens. 'I want the best partner in the world.' Keep that idea with you and then ask yourself, 'Who is aware of your presence?' You see that one of them has to go. This is the play of Maya. The ability to distract ourselves from reality is Maya. And ultimately for God, even that is an ability. That's why I'm calling it an ability. It is the greatest trickster, but God has given himself the ability to trick himself.

And it's not a one-time thing, so don't believe that, 'Oh, you've come to the recognition of this awareness as yourself, now some bomb has gone off and it's done.' No, it's moment to moment. Although in the byproducts of us coming to it, you may find spiritual experiences, some outer things happening. And many times I've said that it's maybe better that none of that happens because we get attached to those things, you see. If it is very sober and this simple, maybe that is best. You don't get attached to any of the spiritual experiences that may be the byproduct.

So now we're delving deeper into the value of being conceptually empty. Simply, we are going to look at who is aware of the perception of this hand and try to grasp a thought at the same time. What happens? Who can really go slow motion in this and look at it and tell me what happens? Seems like you're watching two things: one, your perception of the hand; your perception of the thought. Really at the same... now try to go further. And you're beautifully starting where you're seeing that attention is limited, you see. So it seems to go here, then it seems to come back here. So that's what's happening with attention. And yet in the movement of attention, the misidentification has not yet come, isn't it? Because your attention may be like that; it doesn't matter whether it's hand or thought if it is just attention. With me? Doesn't matter whether it's hand or thought when it... if it is just about attention, because both are perceived.

But what happens when you buy into the thought? When you believe the thought and you exert the second primal power that you have—the first being attention, the second being belief—what happens when you believe the thought? Till then, the fact that you are awareness is apparent still, isn't it? Till that point, you have not been shaken from your reality. But once you believe an idea, what happens? So the experiment is to try and believe an idea and in that moment not lose who you are. You can do this, experiment with it. I would really encourage this experiment, although the solution is obviously you are aware what is coming. But you lose that emptiness and fill, you see, the space within you with the belief in a thought. Then it seems like the insight which is so simple gets clouded, seems to get lost. And nobody so far has been able to hold on to ignorance, avidya, and to self-knowledge at the same time. And that is why the mind is constantly at work. It has to constantly give you things to believe so you keep filling yourself up with these notions, and then reality seems so... and that is why we can say the reality of who you are, Brahman itself is who you are, seems to have become the rarest knowledge possible in this world.

When you believe the thought, you feel that you are the body. See, because that is the locus of the identity, isn't it? It needs a central point. If you're going to take yourself to be worldly, then everything in the world has a body, isn't it? Has a shape. Everything. Like if this is in the world, then it has to have a shape, it has to have a body. So when you buy into the idea, you buy into a shape for yourself. But the reverse is also true: that if you do not buy into any idea, you cannot take a shape for yourself. Can you experiment now like that? Let all thoughts go. Tell me, what is your shape? Possible? Not possible to take yourself to be limited unless you're buying an idea. That is why when I felt it came to me in satsang many years back to say, 'All you have to do is not believe your next thought,' I feel like it's game over. You know, like, 'How is it nobody said this before?' Stupid, arrogant child that I was. So I'm sure many have said it before, but I just felt like, 'I'm just going to tell everyone all you have to do is not believe your next thought and finish, everyone will just follow, we're done.' No. Only the mind was that simple. Thoughts about not believing thoughts were believed. Thoughts about believing thoughts were believed. So we clearly, at least I clearly, underestimated the nemesis. That's exactly... didn't realize only now because the whole idea of the heart, temple...

I'm sure many have said it before, but I just felt like I'm just going to tell everyone: all you have to do is not believe your next thought and finish, everyone will just follow, we're done. No, only the mind was that simple. Thoughts about not believing thoughts were believed; thoughts about believing thoughts will be believed. So we clearly, at least I clearly, underestimated the nemesis. That's exactly it. I didn't realize only now because the whole idea of the heart temple movement is so all of you can empathize with me. But don't you see, it's a thought? What do you mean by thought? It's me, what else you got? Like that. So hopefully you're noticing that to be fooled by Maya, to be fooled to take yourself to be limited, it is not possible without the thought arising. Therefore, you noticing it with your attention and you're taking it to be true, therefore exerting your belief on this thought which is getting your attention—without that, you remain in pure perception and you remain open and empty. As Guruji has been saying recently, remain as a detached witnessing.

I'll just take an example from work. I'm just trying to play it out in terms of what you're saying. So you come back after two weeks out and there's always a lot of stuff happening. So you get into this back and forth on a bunch of things and, you know, you feel your irritation rise and you're getting into an argument with somebody, which always happens. And like you're saying, you know, there is this 'I' and the other awareness, and it's almost like an optometrist—you put a lens in and out and you can switch out into the other one. And suddenly you just hear sounds and a bunch of people sitting there; you're aware of everything but you can hear the voice, you can even hear the question. But every thought I have is a function of something that's happened in the past or a fear or a joy of what's going to happen in the future. But to answer somebody's question, I can hear everything, right? You have to go into the 'I' and to answer the question, new thoughts arise. And then your mind gets into, 'No, you be in the other eye, you be in this eye,' and you know, you're getting... now you're lost already. You're getting into this loop, right? You follow what I'm saying? So I'm asking whether it is possible to remain in daily life and answer a question from somebody, often in the heat of the moment, and not be in the 'I' you think you are and be on the other side? And it was quite challenging.

Yeah, it's definitely possible, no? But what can happen is that with an answer like that, the mind may give you more trouble. 'Father is saying it's possible, why can't I do it?' We've seen others in satsang also nodding. So the mind will make that a benchmark. So let's start with: okay, so there was a heated argument at work and someone pushes your buttons, all of that, and you got caught up in the mind. What about the rest of the 98% of the time when that heat was not there? Let's start with that. I think the pendulum swings are a lot less. So start like that. Treat those moments as write-offs because the mind will want us to dwell on that even when it's over. You see, that's what I call the one-two punch from the mind. Because the one punch is maybe a few minutes, five minutes, ten minutes, half an hour; you have a difficult meeting and it's contentious and all of that. But what about the remaining fifteen and a half hours of the waking day? And if that is all right, that's okay. Start like that, start like that.

But what the mind will want you to do is spend the remaining fifteen and a half hours thinking about that half an hour, especially once you've come into spirituality. So once you know like that, it will try to use this itself to block you more and more. And this is why I used to say often that my biggest nemesis is the 'Checker Guy' who now also has heard the words of satsang. So, 'No, don't believe your thoughts,' won't do that, you see? So then it comes even when the situation is long gone. You see, earlier this problem was not there because you were like, 'This is how it is, he's the bad guy, I fought with him, yes, fine.' Yeah, so it can see now. But after coming into spirituality and satsang, there's that provisional period where the mind will try to use the concepts of satsang itself to oppress us even more. And that is the Checker Guy, which means that it uses what it hears in satsang and makes it an oppressive checking from the mind itself, saying, 'You were meant to be empty, but you are not empty.' But we don't recognize that that conclusion is keeping us from being empty now.

So if it happened, it happened. It's over. You're not going to spiritually beat yourself up and say, 'I did wrong, how can I fix that?' Okay, but now that situation is not there. Can you be empty now? Start like that. Then what happens is as you allow the rest of your life to deepen in this, then you'll see that it starts to seep into the most difficult situations as well. You see, you start to see that when you're not falling for the trap of the Checker Guy, then because you're so much open and at ease in the rest of your life, it will seep into the most difficult situations as well. But if you allow the rest of your life then to be oppressed by the fact that you're not able to do it well enough in those cases, you see, then it has the reverse effect. So just write off something in the past. We just have to write off. If you keep dwelling on them, it doesn't help.

So okay, a little continuation. There is no other, but there is other because there is no other, but like in a daily life, the other is the mind. What if that is my own or the other mind? It's the same, no? So here to be so clear and to just remain... my own, my personal one or the other one, it doesn't matter. It's the same, no? The same. So is this other one always with you in the sense that... in the sense that I completely hear what you're saying. So there comes a time where we feel like we can just be open and empty with the mind that comes from here, the thoughts, but the thoughts that seem to come from there, we're not able to be empty about them for some time. But thankfully, mostly we're not always around that other.

So that's why I'm telling him also that make use of the space that life has given you, empty of that situation. And are you fully empty of your mind then? That much is good enough. And as that deepens, as it becomes more and more natural, then you will find that whether you are in those situations of the other or not, it doesn't seem to have the same bite that it used to. But don't necessarily focus on those situations where there is another or some trouble happening. We make sure that we are empty at least the rest of the time, because the mind will want to fix that, but you're not able to be empty when that is happening.

So here I'm like, okay, the Checker Guy keeps checking and then it gets... don't let the Checker Guy out first. Yeah, don't use that spiritual knowledge which is true, that there are no others, but then there is other. There are no others, but the other is just like... exactly, no other. It's worse than before then. Yes, it's worse than before you came to satsang because earlier they were like, 'There is another, I'm going to fight with them, going to tell them I'm right,' and it's over. Yeah, but now 'there is no other' feels like another. It seems much more difficult.

So just be empty as much as you can. And in those moments where you can't be empty, then when those situations are over, then don't dwell on them. Return to your emptiness as fast as you can. Return to your emptiness as fast as you can instead of thinking about what you should have done in those situations.

But this, in my case, like this is why I quite live in solitude, because this is the only way that I actually feel empty. Because I go and I move around and it feels everything is moving inside, but then I'm going, 'It should be the same there or here, everywhere.' So I keep like... because it's not, it's false in a way and I'm aware of it, but yet I cannot... like I get so exhausted if I am around people.

Of course. Okay, so I'm going to answer that in a more elaborate way as we come to 'How should I live?' Then we'll come to that point. Because for some, a cave life is fine. For some, a cave life is fine, and for some, a cave life is not fine at all because you need to have that friction with the world to really, you know, build the spiritual so that you can deepen in that. But how do we know which one am I? We'll come to that. We'll come to that in a moment. I'll try to give you the whole thing today. So because I'm sharing this after the break, I want everyone to have a sort of broad sense into the construct, into the way of the heart as I've been calling it, in its entirety, right?

So the first aspect we're looking at is the unperceivable inside aspect of it, okay? So if the temple has three pillars, the first pillar is—and not in order of importance—but the first one, which is simplest to cover, is the unperceivable inside part of it. So the question was, how the discussion started is that you look at the impact of empty versus non-empty, open versus non-open. The minute you are not empty, then, which means that you've bought into or believed a thought, a notion from the mind, then what happens is that it's not just that notion that you believe, isn't it? So it's like you may say, 'But I just believed a very simple notion that steel straws are better than paper straws. Where is identity in that? I just bought this very simple notion.'

But what happens is that what is unavoidable is like the pool of conditioning, the pool of vasanas. The tree of conditioning operates in such a way that you tug at one leaf and the whole tree comes. You cannot isolate your conditioning piecemeal. You cannot conveniently use it and say, 'I will just believe this very harmless, humble notion and the rest of it maybe no.' Because soon what will happen? What happens even when... oh, what you're actually saying is, 'I feel that steel is better than paper.' So this 'I' also, by the way, has preferences about many other things. The minute you identify like that, 'I' comes into it. So it comes with all of its shadow. It doesn't just come with this very simple thing as just steel straw versus paper straw.

Because then, 'I believe in a sustainable environment, I believe in going green, I believe so many other things.' They're all linked with this. I know what is the meaning of a straw, I know what is the meaning of paper, I know what kind of hazards can be there and, you know, not being able to manage our trash correctly and the whole world is being filled with landfills, and I know so much. So it's like you hope that you could pick up only one word from the dictionary, but to pick up that word from the dictionary, you have to pick up the whole dictionary. So as much as we may not like hearing that, we cannot selectively pick and choose. And this is what happens when we try to selectively pick and choose spiritual knowledge. What happens? You become very knowledgeable about spirituality conceptually, and you become much worse by having a spiritual ego. This is worse than a regular ego.

So emptiness is a gift that comes to us moment to moment naturally, because in this moment you're empty. Otherwise, nobody would be able to do it if there was a full tree of conditioning that you had to get rid of every moment. How would you do it? It's that God is fresh and alive every moment. Every moment is a fresh opportunity. That's for how many couple of years? Just clicking like right now, right now. What's your name? Right now, right now, even the identity which is so primal, your own name or what you take to be your name, is not there in the moment. You need to think about it. So when we want to get rid of the 'I' thought—because that is a misconception after reading Bhagavan that some of us have, like, 'I've been able to get rid of all the thoughts but now I'm just fighting with the I thought'—it's all nonsense because the 'I' thought is just any reference.

Right now, right now, what's your name? Right now, right now, even the identity which is so primal—your own name or what you take to be your name—is not there in the moment. You need to think about it. So when we want to get rid of the 'I' thought, because that is a misconception after reading Bhagavan that some of us have, like, 'I've been able to get rid of all the thoughts but now I'm just fighting with the I thought.' You know, all nonsense. Because the 'I' thought is just any reference you're making to 'I'. 'I' is contained in even the mildest seeming reference to 'I'. So there's not a special 'I' thought that you're supposed to vanquish at the end of after dealing with all the other minions, the minimum thoughts, then you come to the 'I' thought, attack the 'I' thought and win. It's not like that. This 'I' thought is contained in every thought, any reference you can make to the 'I'. So any pointer that you have that the 'I' is pointing to has to become a null pointer—for software engineers—has to have no reference to the 'me' anymore. And without a reference, are you lost? The mind will say, 'If you don't know who you are, then how are you going to run this life? Your children will go hungry.' What happens when you lose all references? Are you lost or found?

Kind of. I don't... I'm not sure it's like that. So completely empty, completely empty of the mind but full of the heart. So when I was kind of going through some experience in that emptiness, it's an experience which I want to kind of explain so that you can tell me what that kind of is. And then why then I picked up some things to basically even to attach on purpose, because that emptiness was just living was that emptiness. So it's like then I was watching myself picking up things or person or animals to love, to attach myself, because otherwise it would just be gone. Yes, I would be just gone. So what, what is that then? Because then I'm again on the beginning.

Very helpful kind of. But when that is happening, to be in Satsang when that is happening... So if you read, there are some examples of this happening quite spontaneously even with Western philosophers. So if you read Sartre, and if you read a book called Nausea... so I started reading this book and he's like—and I'm exaggerating of course to make the point—but he's literally saying like the worst thing ever has happened to me. He's saying where I was walking on the beach but I could not tell the difference between the ocean and myself, and the sand and myself, and the rocks. So I picked up a rock and I could not tell whether the rock is looking at me or I looking at the rock. And he's framing it at the start of his book Nausea, if I'm not mistaking books, it's possible. So he's framing it like that, like it's the worst thing, no? And I was reading it and saying, 'Wow, this is an awakening experience where the me is not being found.'

This is what happened on the hot seat here, that I didn't know which is which, who was looking at who. It was not clear. I was looking at that and he just like... so he said something similar. I feel very... he said that because this was just too much. It was... no, he called it nausea like it was just too much. So he had to make a few reference points to just give his life some sanity according to him. He would have a routine, or was it... or the other one? Not this. I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to explain. But it's similar where you just, when you lose all references to the 'I', many times because you don't have like the spiritual support of a Master around you or you're not in... the mind can come in over there and say, 'Whoa,' you know, 'then you better attach yourself to something. You're just going to fade away or something is going to happen.'

When I'm like this, that I'm one with ocean, this is why ocean and I feel like this, this is not too much. This is actually the natural how it feels. Yeah, why did you have to attach to something?

Yeah, this is what I tried to explain when I came to one. It particular exhaustion was so strong and it's with the T and with the... so I started to collapsing into unconsciousness. I would have to tell myself, 'Wake up in the morning, stay awake, stay awake,' like mentally repeating myself to keep functioning. And that caused some kind of... it's like I am keeping myself alive on like on machine basically on the here, otherwise would not be any more nothing. So when I saw that I have no kind of... I had control over it for a while when I was just kind of repeating myself every single thing I have to do like this. And then it came to a point where I had no control, so I would just collapse and people would pick me up and kind of put me together like this. And it was not too much, it's not the point that was too much, but it was the point that was for me in that moment not kind of that. So I moved to a different location where I don't have this experience. But I saw like what I'm doing is that I'm kind of picking up life back to continue it, otherwise would be just melt gone. But now when I'm going there, it's happening. The feeling is very similar. So I'm like kind of... you understand? Yeah, but I'm not saying it's too much, but I'm saying like how can this be that you're aware and then you pick it up again and you even stronger? Basically I went stronger now. You saw me with attachment never before, like I just like I go there, I go there, whatever. But now it's so strong, like that is now everything. Like this attachment is now so strong. So basically I went from that experience to instead of completely letting go, I went much, much, much, much stronger. So how is then that would be a freedom, like being aware of it?

Yeah, so I've seen this that most who have awakenings, most who have awakenings then lock themselves back into something. See, because especially those in the West, if you have spontaneous awakenings you don't even realize what is happening to you. But even here, even in the Satsang and things, when these through Bhagavan's grace awakenings and spiritual experiences come, then without the presence of Satsang, without the presence of Master, for most it can seem too difficult to manage. Because the fears from the mind, the pushing of the buttons, you see, all of those will tell you, 'No, no, return to some safety. Return to some safety because this is no way to live. This is no life, you're going to die like this,' whatever the proposal may be.

So the proposal for me in that those moments, but I'm also considering that it was also exhaustion of the mind, it was like extinguished. That proposal was, 'You're leaving the body and that's it.' Leaving the body. So in that moment I saw I cannot control this because it was so strong. So I change the location where I don't have this. I don't know why.

The fear of death. Maharaj said, and I am there, that in the life of everyone who is coming to freedom, they have to encounter this fear of death. And if you don't transcend it, then it can keep you back. So basically the point I'm making is that you have a bit of an independence streak. So what happens is you just feel like, 'I don't want to trouble the Master with this, I don't want to do... I want to do this on my own.' You see? But if you look at it—I know a strange example is coming—so we feel like, okay, who climbed Mount Everest first? Everyone says it's Hillary. But actually I feel like the first thousand ones, or I don't know how many have crossed now, could not have made it without the Sherpas. Everyone had the Sherpas helping them, even carrying them to some extent. You see? So I feel like many Sherpas would have gone before. So anyone who is attempting to climb this mountain of freedom, the Sherpas are available in the form of the Masters. We must use them. But we can just feel like, 'No, no, I don't want to trouble the Sherpa' or 'I want to do this by myself.' And that sort of seemingly humble independence streak can also become a block. Just like... but there is someone who has gone through, if not the exact same experiences, at least in the same family of experiences, who can then guide you and say, 'Okay, this will happen like this, and it is better if it happens in that moment,' you see, when those things are happening, rather than in the post-mortem. So use the... but you're saying the fear of death, the fear of death of the body? No, it cannot be. It's something else.

Nobody feel like when I die the body is going to die. The fear of death is that I am going to die as a person, whatever I am going to die, whatever you take yourself to be. The one that can die is going to die and that 'I' is going to be me. Nobody feels like, 'Oh, there the body will go, I'll be fine.'

Yes, I do.

Huh?

I do. No, when we are not caught up in the fear, then of course hopefully in Satsang we can see that the body will die but I am deathless. But when we are caught in the fear of death, that means that we are thinking that I am going to die.

It's like, I don't know in my language, it's like a... it's something that I am... I'm not... it's difficult saying, but yeah, it's something that I'm not kind of... you know, I came also before when I was coming and I was saying many times like that is for me freedom, to be free of all this. So this I do really, I do not perceive it in this way. But what I'm perceiving it more as being lost in that way. And this then with the body the issue, like if I'm like... sometimes I love going there, I would stay there, but I go there and I feel the body is just going to be gone, but I want to be there. So it's like a trick to solve which I can...

So I'll tell you how to solve it. Not right now, we're coming to that. So we're clear that to remain in the unperceivable insight of who we are, we have to be empty. And the instant you hold on to a notion, whatever harmless seeming that notion may be, that insight seems to be lost in that moment. Yes? We're back or no? Should we recap a bit more? So for those who build the temple on this, with the foundation of this insight or with the pillar of this insight, you see, you'll find it much easier. If it is just a belief, then it's just... this is like 'I am Brahman.' You may say it in Sanskrit, 'Brahman.' Mahavakya. Beyond all vakyas. Mahavakya means super-vakya, a super sentence. Everything else is just a sentence, but some are like Maha sentences. What will happen? Nothing. Maybe more trouble. It just remains conceptual. How to tell when I'm doing conceptual or when I'm empty? Are you here? Yeah. We get used to a different way of confirming, a different way of concluding. It is going to help her as well. You're no longer stuck in the opposites of what the mind is offering. So where you can confirm that you are aware, you can actually build your house there. And you need to... I mean, it happens organically. If you're going to be open and empty, it is not that you are lost. You actually come to your true house, which is to live in the way of the heart. So that is why it's important to spend a little more time maybe on what happens when you're really empty and maybe delve deeper into my question, which is: are you lost or are you found? Because to the mind, it is completely lost. You have no plan for the future, you don't know how you're going to run your life according to the mind. But what is your experience? Found. See, in that... nobody has come to this emptiness like completely without the mind, and it may be wobbly like that for a few moments, maybe even for a couple of days, but the wobbliness is not permanent. In fact, this kind of stability that you get in living like this can never be offered by the mind, because the mind's beliefs are frivolous, trivial. You believe something today, two years later you'll believe the opposite. So many things you believed in college, you don't believe now. There is no stability to be found in the conceptual frameworks of the mind. I believed I was a complete atheist in college. I used to believe that God is a non-existent concept made by losers because they're so weak. Imagine if belief systems were permanent. But no.

Living like this can never be offered by the mind because the mind's beliefs are frivolous, trivial. You believe something today; two years later you'll believe the opposite. So many things you believed in college you don't believe now. There is no stability to be found in the conceptual frameworks of the mind. I believed I was a complete atheist in college. I used to believe that God is a non-existent concept made by losers because they're so weak. Imagine if belief systems were permanent. But nobody's experience is that beliefs are permanent, and that unsteadiness should make us look for a more steady way of life.

So, those who have been taught credibly to remain empty, even if they go through these periods of bubbliness, will confirm to you that life has never been more stable. It's like for the first time you're starting to live on solid ground, which is completely the opposite of what the mind is telling you. The mind is telling you you're going to die, or asking how you're going to run your life. You see, all kinds of fears can come. Some get different types of fears also; you don't have to worry about any of that. So, without the mind to push you around, your life for the first time will seem steady. The ship will seem steady for the first time. It doesn't mean that it's become inert. Outwardly, it may become full of activity also. You may come into some missionary mode and wanting to share this, you see, with everyone. You may want to walk from place to place, and we've seen lives of sages where it's happened like that. But inwardly stable—that's the way to tell if it's stable. No, you can tell. No, I'm just saying that the mind will try to make you scared by saying your life will be so all over the place, you see, you won't know what you're doing and how things will be taken care of. But to live in faith, to live in trust so much, it's not make-believe anymore.

So how to tell whether you're following your mind or heart? Can you not tell? I mean, is a problem existent that we have to solve it? When you believe a thought, can't you tell you're believing a thought? When I believe a thought, I can't tell whether I'm believing my thoughts or when I'm inside. But when inside, it's clear.

Yes, so remain in the clarity of the inside and discard everything else. Exactly. If it is doubtable, then leave it. Initially, you may leave a lot of intuitive insight also because the mind will come and doubt it. It's okay. Insight is not in a rush or running out of insight. And one trick is that if you have to keep referring back to your spiritual experience of when you were finding it, just drop all of that. Why not now? And this is for you as well, where if you have to refer back to history and when an awakening was happening for you, then leave all of that. It's just a dream. Why not now? Has the truth gone away somewhere? Fresh God is here.

You know the story? I went to drop my son to university. We were sitting in a small town called Bloomington in Indiana, and there was probably one hotel or maybe two, three. But we were sitting in the small reception lobby. Some people came to meet me and this very sweet boy—no, I won't mention his name—so he said to me, 'You know, Father, when I came with you to the retreat in Rishikesh, then this experience happened, but it's never happened since then. And all I want is that...' you see. And I heard it for a little bit, but after that, I started screaming in the lobby. You know, like from my level, not like a scream, just like: 'But fresh God is here! Fresh God is here!' And you're wasting all your time thinking about some experience you had from three years ago. You say when you found God then, you want that God back, but you don't want the fresh God that is here. This is the trick of the mind. But then, but what should I... is God not here now? So the receptionist was staring at me. He seemed quite peaceful; what happened to him? But the point is very important. No point dwelling on the past. It's not that God was there then and He's not here now.

Sometimes when I can't orientate, if I go in the memory, I find kind of like how it was, like a map. It stays a few days, but it's not...

Stay a few days. Stay. What will you do? You can learn to be in a sort of refuge instead of having to battle with this by yourself. So the mind will come and scare you, or you need a reference point otherwise, and it will keep you in the building. So what will you do? How much will you mess up? Who knows what happens? Who knows what happens? Otherwise, you'll be caught up in the past.

No, I can see. I know the memory, the mind, the tricks. It looks like more you kind of seen this. It's just... I know what is the memory. I know it's not...

You need to find someone who can carry all this for you. That is a teacher or Master, whatever you call it, the Satguru. You need to find...

Keep feeling that what the mind... the burden, everything?

Yeah, all burdens can be given. Because if you cannot find someone you can surrender to and you take it onto yourself, then freedom seems so much of a difficult project.

But it's my feeling is that it's me that would take it on me. That's the trouble. You don't feel like this would be taken by anyone else than me. That's the problem. Whatever that is. I mean, like now lately I don't want it and I want to give it, but otherwise, yeah, it was like if I can carry, I'll carry.

I have not heard of one who has been able to carry this by themselves, even historically. That's such a difficult path in the world today. It's a difficult path in the world today because I feel it is next to impossible. Everything is possible by God's grace, but next to impossible to come to this by ourselves. And yet, those who are truly, authentically offering this are very few. We are surrounded in a world full of Donald Trumps of spirituality. So people get jaded by all of that and they feel that 'I must be able to do this by myself.' There's a whole movement about being your own Guru. Why? Because they are scared, and many for good reason. Scared of the exploitation, scared of the nonsense that is peddled in the name of spirituality. And then it becomes very easy to paint everyone with the same brush. And everyone then says... I was in that boat. I said I'm done with this Guru business after spending a few years with Ramesh and then I heard something. So I was just like, 'I'm going to do this by myself' because I'm... and I couldn't admit this, but I was heartbroken by the Guru business. So either for that reason we want to do this by ourselves, or we have like an independence streak, you see.

Many of the boys that came to me had this problem where they just felt like Father's given us everything that he could, now the rest of it is for us to do. And maybe they read some Krishnamurti or something like that. Krishnamurti is of course very beautiful, but it can happen. And he was right about... like he said all of these Guru businesses are fraud. But I would not say all. I would say 99.9% maybe.

And how does one then find that 0.1? Is grace, I guess? But it's very sticky things.

So the point really is that if you feel truly in your heart that you've come to a true Satsang, then use that fully. Use that for me. But I completely also understand where the fears come from because I've been there. To climb this mountain without the Guru as a Satguru is not impossible, but not easy. It seemed like... I mean, I'm trying to say it's the Master is an unknown factor which helps you not to believe it. It's not like you can do it on your own. It's really not possible to do that. It's quite apparent to you that something else comes and breaks that force of habits because you just can't do it on your own. And you see that you can't do it on your own. I mean, really, we do become stupid and arrogant to think that we are doing it when we reach that Mukti state. But otherwise, if you're just a little bit humble in that moment, you do recognize something just switched back. It has nothing to do with you. You see so clearly in that.

Yes, and that's exactly... that is the answer to my question when I was asking whether you're lost or you're found. So that is the answer to the question that when we lose our mind in that way, when we lose our mind, we find the Guru. We're not lost; we're found. Found the Guru presence within.

So how to run our life then? It's not possible that you're left in the lurch, that you were seeking God truly and you gave up on the voice of ignorance and God said, 'Okay, let's just leave this one in the lurch.' The presence of the Satguru within does become apparent. Many times it can seem like the Dark Night of the Soul, but the ego gets completely squeezed in that. All selfishness gets squeezed in that. It is said that Christ himself was tempted—no, was attempted to be tempted. The temptations came from the devil for even him in the form of fear, in the form of pleasure, in the form of gratification. All of these things will pull us back from the way of the heart back into the way of the mind.

We talked about unperceivable insight and many other things, but so centrally this: what can anchor us to this? What is an anchor for the truth instead of an anchor to the false? What anchors us to the false? Thoughts, fear, attachment. You see, what is going to happen? Thoughts of the future, regrets from the past—all of these are anchors to the mind. What anchors us to the truth? It's to release the false, you see. When we release the false, what happens is that we discover a new anchor which can make our life so stable, which is the anchor of unconditional love. And after childhood, most of us only have met, probably have only met, conditional love. 'You do this for me, you get into a relationship with me, you do all this business we have called love.' And most of us have experienced... before we experience the love of the Guru, we experience this kind of unconditional love probably only in our childhood.

But as we start to remain empty in our heads, we start to remain full in our hearts. What does it mean, full in our hearts? Full of the presence of this unconditional love which anchors us to Him so beautifully. Because truly, love and fear cannot coexist. We had some conversations about this, but you start to see that when your heart is full of love, there is no room for fear. And all the ones who feel like they love their beloved so much, even historically in India we have this, even the songs have this love, then they feel like they can do anything. They are fearless. And all their love stories have shown us this, Romeo and Juliet onwards. But all unconditional love is actually the love for God. And love is so beautiful that you don't know what is the difference between giving it and getting it when it's unconditional. When it's a business dealing, then you realize like, 'I'm getting this much, how much am I getting?' So that's a different thing. But feel the love in your heart and see whether you are giving it or getting it.

So what will happen is that... so we're talking obviously about the second pillar in this way of the heart, which is unconditional love. What will happen is that as you start to live open and empty and in the presence of presence alone and not the mind, then all these byproducts are natural: love, peace, joy. But why am I singling out love? Because love is something that you can do. You can actively love God, and your intention to actively love God brings God's love to the forefront of your life. So you don't have to determine whether you are loving God or God is loving you; just have the intention to love God. Because why would you not? He is the only presence that you know. He is the light of your life. He is the source of all peace, joy, intelligence, and love itself. Who is worthy of love if not God? And we've been having some beautiful conversations, some contemplation here also, and I was telling her that we love God because it is Him, you see. We don't just love His love. Of course, His love is beautiful and we can drown in it in such a beautiful way to live. But suppose that if love was just one-directional, which it isn't, but if it was only that God is who He is and we could...

The light of your life, He is the source of all peace, joy, intelligence, and love itself. Who is worthy of love if not God? And we've been having some beautiful conversation and some contemplation here also, and I was telling her that we love God because it is Him. You see, we don't just love His love. Of course, His love is beautiful and we can drown in it in such a beautiful way to live, but suppose that if love was just one-directional—which it isn't—but if it was only that God is who He is and we could love Him but we could not taste that love for ourselves, it would still be worth it to love Him so deeply in our heart because He is Him. That's why I was saying that, I'll elaborate on that. So that's why I was saying that love does not make Him Him; He makes love love. So even love, this unconditional oneness, belongingness that we experience, is in service to Him. It is a flower at His feet. But His reality is so much beyond even love.

So it's a great anchor for us and a great ladder for us to climb because as we climb the ladder of unconditional love, it leads to His feet. So if our head is empty and our heart is full of unconditional love, then we set the foundation for a truly spiritual life. So whether you think you know how to do it or not, because your mind will get in the way, just love Him with all your heart, everything that you've got. Don't hold back, don't ration it out. Fall in love with Him so deeply and fully, and I promise you that this is the one relationship where you can never be heartbroken. You can never be heartbroken in this love.

And I have to admit that this path of love was not natural to the expression here. I always considered myself more of a Jnana Yogi type expression, but as I'm deepening in my insight about Him, I find myself falling in love deeper and deeper with Him. It's my deepest obsession. I'm deeply infected and obsessed with Him, and still I feel like I'm just beginning. I could love Him so much more. Like some of the Sufis and some other traditions where they referred to God as their beloved and lover and best friend and all of that, and I could never resonate with those earlier. That seems almost disrespectful. But now I'm getting a taste of when a sage called God his beloved. I was not resonating with that earlier, but now I can see from where that is coming. Some sages have called Him their husband; even the male sages have called Him their husband. I'm seeing where that is coming from—the privilege to be infected in this way.

So allow yourself to love Him with all your heart, with everything that you've got. And I have to say that although I may not have resonated with some of the terminology that some of these sages used to refer to God as, I always felt like I love Him so deeply in my heart, but I'm noticing the ever-deepening and the ever-sweetening of the love here for God. And it is that love, and not anything else—more than anything else, this love—which compels me to want to serve Him. And I completely realize the conceptual dichotomy that that brings us to. The conceptual dichotomy of first coming to the discovery that there are no two, there is only one reality that is Him, and I see that I am that. And even this Consciousness, which I'm so deeply in love with, arises within myself. The dichotomy is that I am also that who just wants to sit at His feet and serve Him. I want to be faithful to Him.

So we are talking about servitude, love, and servitude combined with Bhakti. What are the elements of this servitude? Faith is very, very important because if God becomes just a make-believe game, then our life will not truly be spiritual. If it just becomes a question of our belief—there is a God somewhere—then we'll forget Him in the most important times. So faith is very important. To trust the intuitive discovery of the Self and the arising of Consciousness, unbound Consciousness, which we find intuitively—to trust that more than what this world is showing us is faith. We live as if God is not around us, He's not here right now, but I want to tell you that He is. How can you find that? How can you meet that? Only in faith. Not rationally, not perceptually, but only in faith. And in faith we start to question: how are we living? We are living oblivious to God most of the time. That has to change, and that is changing with faith.

So in hearing Kabir Ji and Farid and Rahim Ji, I can relate to the references that they are making. They will say 'Malik,' and I see that Malik, the Master, is here, right here. What stops us from living in the reality of the fact that He is here? Because we trust our eyes more than our heart. That stops us. That's why we've been doing these experiments of: okay, so what if Krishna was sitting on that sofa, what would we do then? If He was sitting on your bed, what would you do then? That is lack of faith—to trust what your eyes are showing you more than what your heart is showing you.

And it is what most beginners may ask for in spirituality. I've been talking to some beginners and they say, 'If I could only see Him.' They do not have faith in His reality. But you can see Him, but not with your eyes. Because if you saw Him just with your eyes, He would become another experience which then you would normalize within a few days, if not hours. But you meet this holy presence within yourself. It is God's presence in the form of the Holy Spirit, in the form of the Atma, and the form of the Satguru presence within ourselves. It is Him. I tell you, it is Him. If you forget about everything else I've ever said, but you trust me only on this: that the presence that you experience within yourself, that Being is Him. And He is a living Being. He is a living reality, much more than the ones you can see in front of you with your eyes, much more than this one which is a bucket of flesh. He is the reality. He is here.

For some this is so beautiful. For all of us it is very beautiful, but some of you may also be scared about this. 'But I don't want God to be here always. I don't want Him to know what I do behind closed doors or what I think.' But you don't have to be scared of these things. But know that He's here; He always is. So we have to learn to live in the reality of this intuitive insight more than we would live if He was holding our hand and walking outside. How would you live if that was to happen? Can you see where our trust still goes? That we feel like, 'Okay, but if You were sitting here, then I would just be able to surrender my life to Him, hand everything over to Him.' But He's sitting closer than in front of you. It is Him. 'Where are you looking for me? I'm right here next to you, with you.' And He's telling you literally—please don't take this metaphorically, because in that ability to make it poetic or a metaphor, you may just say, 'What beautiful words, maybe one day I can live like that.' No, He's saying now. There's no time. He's telling you literally that God is the presence that you have known; it is the only presence there is.

So this is the faith aspect of servitude. Because if you don't even meet the Master, then you're fooling yourself about following His will. See, then you're just making up what you think His will is and not following His will. 'God would have wanted me to do this, God would have wanted me to do that, God would have wanted me to meditate, God would have wanted me to...' but why this 'would have'? Is He not here? See? So obedience flows from faith. Obedience to Him flows from our faith. He's here. Allow Him to move you. Allow Him to move you and allow Him to guide you how to live in God's will. In obedience to Him, allow Him to move you. Don't let your ideas get in the way. And if you hear from Him in your heart, then follow that unwaveringly to the best of your ability. That is obedience.

So humility is very important. If you have pride, all of this will be taken by pride. All that is meant to be in servitude to Him will become in service to 'me,' to the ego. Pride contaminates. Pride contaminates anything. Probably that is why it is said that if my head is not bowed down, then let it be burnt like firewood. Strong words, very important. If my head is not bowed down, let it be burned like firewood because our pride reverses servitude. Our pride expects us to be served by Him. Prayerfulness and gratitude—all of these things about faith, humility, obedience, prayerfulness, gratitude—are how you keep your inner space sacred for God. And it is the easiest way to live, although initially it may sound like a lot. It may sound like, 'Can I live like this?' because it's completely contrary to the mind's frameworks.

And to the mind, even Advaita is very convenient actually. 'I come, I do some Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? I see I'm one with Him, chill out. Where is the question of servitude? The only one I saw, it must be Maya he's talking about.' So the mind will come in doubt and attack even the Master who showed us the way of insight and use that only against him and say, 'Oh, but I'm one with Him, what's he talking about?' What is that? That is a spiritual pride and that is why you may get stuck. We may get stuck. Like it is said, the whole elephant may go through the eye of the needle, but sometimes the tail gets stuck. A spiritual insight itself may become our pride, and before we know it, we have not fallen on our knees in service to Ram, but we have become Ravana instead.

Ravana realized he had become Ravana. He thought he's speaking the truth and the words he was speaking were truthful pointers, but the evil that flowed from him in spite of his insights, in spite of so much knowledge, in spite of being the composer of—like even the Shiva Tandava Stotram is composed by him. What a beautiful one he must have been before pride got him. But once we are caught up in pride and we live on egoic terms, and that is the only sin—to follow the way of the ego and not the way of God is the only sin. You tell me, when you suffer like that, what happens? What is the thought process?

You can experience another's pain, yes, you see, but that is not suffering.

What's the difference between pain and suffering?

Pain from the body, suffering from the mind, yes, kind of for me goes hand in hand.

Well, we have to cut that connection. The minute you get the mind involved... pain is a natural condition in the human existence. For suffering, you have to do a lot of work. You don't realize this, you see. What suffering is, is not organic. An infant has pain—colic pain, this pain, that pain, so much pain they come with, you see. And as parents many times you're just helpless. 'How do we help you? How do we help?' But they are not suffering. Like my son would get colic exactly at 5:00 p.m. every night. Now I can't imagine, he's a hulk, but you carry him, you try to do everything you know, give him the colic medicine and all of that, and you feel, 'Poor thing, suffering so much.' And so they cry, cry so much, like his life is going to finish, you know, that much they cry in colic pain. And the minute it gets over—have you seen them kids? Like a few minutes, just like pain, yelling, screaming, and the minute it's over, laughing, playing with the rattle, playing with all of it.

That is the difference between pain and suffering. Pain is to experience that sensation and allow that body to respond to that sensation naturally. Suffering is to involve the 'me' and say, 'Why does it happen to me? When will this stop? How long do I have to go through this?' That's a lot of work. So pain is natural in the human condition, but suffering isn't. Suffering is a prolonged... like if we were to go through that pain, you see, we would not face it like an infant. After the pain would get over also, we'd be like, 'What do I do so it doesn't come again? I have to, you know, change something, I have to go to a different doctor. And why does God keep doing this to me? And you know, how much should I pray?' and you know, all of this. That is suffering. So the mind uses the appearance of these sensations that we call pain to get us into the trap of suffering. That is the way it seems to go hand in hand.

Through that pain, you see, we would not face it like an infant. After the pain would get over also, we'd be like, 'What do I do so it doesn't come again? I have to, you know, change something. I have to go to a different doctor. And why does God keep doing this to me?' and you know, all of this. That is suffering. So the mind uses the appearance of these sensations that we call pain to get us into the trap of suffering. That is the way it seems to go hand in hand, you see, because it uses that perception as evidence of being something being wrong. This, no, also the other way. It's also the other way. If there is some pain, then the mind uses that as an opportunity for its guerrilla warfare and says, 'See, something is wrong. You must fix it. You must change something. Me, me, me, me, me.' And even the scientists actually have said that when suffering is met with acceptance—you see, when pain is met with acceptance—pain seems a lot lesser and goes away a lot sooner. And people working in hospices and all have done this research that for patients who met the pain with acceptance, they seem to be in a lot less pain. Is it? So even the pain seems to get amplified when we involve our mind in it, although we're trying to fix it by involving it.

So don't suffer for another, but you will experience, if your heart is open, you will experience the pain of another. And if you're going to share as you go along, then that will become a way of life for you. He said pain. That's why I keep saying that sharing satsang is not as glamorous as it may appear, because basically the contract is that you're willing to take all the pain of your children, you see, happily. That's true. And I would say that we should not share unless we can feel like we can take the pain of the entire world. If that is needed for them to turn to God, we must be able to say, 'May it help, Father.' And if there is no pride in that prayer, 'May I experience all the pain of my brothers and sisters instead of them having to go through it.' If you cannot make this prayer naturally and with integrity, then we should not really try to embark on the path of sharing satsang. We may involve ourselves in things like the Heart Temple movement where we collectively gather and expand our love for God and our insight. But if you truly feel like you want to block... like I've met some who had some awakening experiences and then started to share, and then one of them also had a phone call with me and she said, 'Ananta, is this what happens then if you share?' I said, 'Yes, that is just natural for that transference to happen in that way.' She said, 'Then I don't want it.' Then I said, 'Okay, that's good that you're clear about it.' Because that is the way of a teacher. To be a teacher is to be a healer; it comes with it. You cannot say that I will just talk about God and draw a boundary. You can do like that also; you can just make discourses about God. But that is not satsang then, although many call it satsang. It is not satsang. So you can make academic discourses about God or come make speeches about God, but let's not call that satsang.

And when you're deeply, deeply humbled in your heart, then to heal is natural for you. Never try to become a healer. Never take on the badge of a healer. Just keep your head bowed down to God, and God knows exactly how things have to flow from where to where. And be very clear that it is coming from your heart, because if it is coming from some conceptual messiah complex, it's going to cause big trouble. You know what I mean? Like some may get even attracted to this conceptually, what I'm saying, you see, like a messiah complex that 'I'm going to, you know, suffer on the behalf of the whole world and heal the world.' But notice if it is coming from pride. You're not healing the world. Just head bowed down naturally in service to God. Accept everything as His prasad.

So Father, when we go closer to God, how do we consciously make effort that the pride doesn't come? Because the Ravana example you gave, if you just remove the pride, he was very close to God. Technical aspects, right? Only thing maybe could be pride and something else made him the extreme opposite of God, literally like a rakshasa, right? So again, while now we are starting this movement and we're trying to, at some level apart from this coming, we're trying to, you know, make conscious effort, right? Flap the wings. So how do we stay our hearts and not get this pride? How can we? This one, of course, you already said is to keep coming to satsang and to have this conversation, because it is the Master's job. If he smells something there, he's going to chop, chop, chop. So that chop... if you find that you come to a point where you don't want to be chopped by the Master, you're just like, 'No, no, now I am also sharing. Now we are like pals. Who are you to chop me? I have also brought this.' So that itself could be some indication that if there's now an idea that, 'You know, now I'm also Guruji.' So those dynamics you could smell on yourself.

And yeah, just what will happen is that God will nudge, you see. God will keep nudging when we're going in the wrong direction. So if you find yourself being in sort of denial... so when you feel the pride, then bring that into your inquiry and don't hide it away behind some conceptual idea. Remember to pray. Remember to keep your head bowed down. We cannot guarantee that pride will not come, but we can only create the safety mechanisms. I'm well aware that as we're trying to spread God's light in this way, some of you will experience some pride. You start getting attached to your stuff, your PR, as I've been calling it, saying the other day. But never buy your own PR. That's where companies go wrong and they get into trouble. It's like, because you have people who are starting to come to you and you're bringing God's light to them, they will feel gratitude. Some of them will want to touch your feet. Some of them will want to put you on a pedestal. Some of them may give you honorific titles like Father, like Ma. All these honorific titles will come to you, you see. But you have to very, very, very, very keep your nose clean, very, very well, and keep smelling, you know, the stink on yourself. And you will find it, and God will nudge you. But if you just remain in avoidance of the nudge, saying, 'Nothing, nothing, I'm cool, I'm cool, I'm cool,' then God will have to slap us. And slap us He will, you see. Ravana had his head cut off ten times, and his whole family had to die for him. So I'm hoping that in sharing these examples and reminding us over and over, we'll stay away from spiritual pride. But I realize it is part of this play that is going to happen. But we cannot not share God because of the danger of the risk of pride.

If it's all God's credit, it's much easier to not feel pride. Like, how do you want to take credit? I'm stamped 'Done by God' and not by me. Something... all stamped by God alone. Is it not stamped already 'Done by God'? It's not clear what He's doing, what I'm doing. Egoic, or it's quite clear. What are you doing? When I have pride, I feel I've done something.

No, correct, correct. But actually, when you look objectively, what are you doing? I'm saying these words. How? Everything is stamped by God. The whole point is that when we buy into egoic identity, then we take credit for that which we can never do, because you don't exist. The non-existent one cannot do anything. How many times has a non-existent one done anything? I see God's stamp everywhere. And even then, even then, I see what you're saying. And God says hello to us constantly in the occurrences of things which have next to zero probability in the so-called serendipity and coincidences that we encounter in our lives. That's just a stamp from God saying, 'No, I'm here.' Because none of our competition could have ever done those things. It's constant. The more open we become, the more we will notice all of these things. It's constant. He's constantly showing us.

So these are the building blocks of a truly spiritual life: unperceivable insight, unconditional love, and servitude. And because the mind loves frameworks, if I'm presenting this to you as a framework, actually it can't really be defined. And also that's the reason why I've co-opted a term from a completely different tradition, actually: Achintya Bheda Abheda, which I feel like is incomprehensible difference and yet oneness. You can look at it as a synthesis of the Vedanta tradition. I don't know if any of you got a sense of that, what was shared. What am I saying? I'm saying that if this is spirituality, what must there be? Spirit. There can be no spirituality without spirit. What is spirit? Unperceivable God's presence, you see. So let's say spirit is God's presence. So God's presence must be the central tenet of spirituality. Why? Because there is no spirit otherwise. See, now if you look around in the world, even in spirituality, people don't talk about God's presence, and very rarely so. That is why I'm saying that that's not really spirituality; it's more psychotherapy, self-help, all of those things, which are fine, but let's not call it spirituality. So that in which God's presence is central is spirituality, because it's about spirit.

Now, Atma or the Satguru presence or the Holy Spirit or the sense of I-amness, the being, the living being called God—His presence is central to spirituality. Now that is central. And we also find that I am that in which the being arises, whose presence this is. So I am that Absolute, to which the Sufi said, 'Higher than that are you. Go higher than that, higher than that. I am that.' That is on one end of this, which means the Abheda, non-distinction between the highest and myself. There is no difference or distinction between the highest and myself. But is that all the insight there is? Because if that was all the insight there is, then there would be no insight about following God's will, to live with our head bowed down, to be thankful, to be faithful, to be humble. But I have to say that as there is the insight of my reality as the unperceivable Self, there is also insight about the reality of how this life must be lived, which is in love and servitude to God. So to live in faith, humility, obedience, gratitude, and prayerfulness is as valid an insight as the ultimate reality of the Self.

Is there a way for us to reconcile all of this? The mind cannot reconcile being that which is the source of the entire universe as well as that which has to keep the head bowed down and live in 'thank you' and gratitude all the time. We cannot reconcile that in our intellect, and that is why it is Achintya. It is non-comprehensible or unfathomable. And why this term? It is just to give you some spiritual reassurance; otherwise it is not needed. Why do we need this term even? Why do we need it? As a counter to our lack of faith. Because to the mind, the opposites of this, the opposite end of spiritual insight, can seem too polar opposite to make any sense of, is it? But the trick in the human condition is if you have a term for it, it's fine, really, isn't it? If you come to healing, if you come to satsang and you get healed in your mental conditions, all study it, you can call it healing, which is great, you know, beautiful presence, Grace. The term is Grace, you see. But if you call it spiritual bypassing, then it's bad. 'Oh, I'm spiritual bypassing. I just came to satsang and he said you're fine, God's Grace is taking care of everything.' And some pseudo-psychotherapist over there will say, 'Oh, you're just spiritual bypassing,' and oh, that's really bad. But then it was Grace, then it was really good, you see. So because we are still caught in terms, that's why I have to provide this term so that all of you don't feel like you're going berserk. Because on one hand you're the highest of the highest, and on one hand you're not even a grain of sand at God's feet. So it has historically been called Achintya. We feel better once we have the crutch of a term and we feel like, 'Okay, I am...'

A therapist over there will say, 'Oh, you're just spiritual bypassing' and 'Oh, that's really bad.' But then it was Grace; then it was really good, you see. So because we are still caught in terms, that's why I have to provide this term so that all of you don't feel like you're going berserk. Because on one hand, you're the highest of the highest, and on one hand, you're not even a grain of sand at God's feet. So it has historically been called a feel-better once we have the crutch of a term and we feel like, 'Okay, I must be onto something.' Otherwise, it can just feel like one is losing it. 'Am I going in the right path? What is the path that you're following?' Traditional? And is it actually there? No, no.

So yeah, but you have to see that it's a very sophisticated thing. What happened is because of the conceptual distinction between Shankara's way of expressing, and Ramanuja's way of expressing, and Madhvacharya's way of expressing, people were in trouble because they felt that they could smell truth when they heard all three of them. They heard Shankaracharya and they were like, 'Hmm, this is good.' Then they went and they heard Ramanuja, 'Wow, this is so good and full of devotion and love.' And then they went to Madhvacharya who said, 'Just live your life and surrender in devotion. Don't talk about oneness because He is too great, unfathomable.' You feel like, 'Wow, this is a beautiful way to live.'

So then the Gaudiya tradition, they made this term 'Achintya' as a sort of synthesis of all the different Vedantic traditions because all of them ring true. And what happened here is that it is not that I got attracted to this term before I started saying these things in satsang. For me, where I am is that I am the highest and all of that, but I'm also just a servant. I realized that this can be very confusing for all of you without having a string to tie it all together. So to help you in that way, to give a nicely wrapped up package, I'm using the term. But I'm not co-opting it in the way it was not meant to be used, and this is exactly how it was meant to be used.

That is the attempt. It settles the fight between Gana and Bhakti. Also, actually, conceptually it is not possible without Duality, is it? So that's why even Maharaj said that from my highest insight, I am That, you see? And from my heart, from my love, I am just in service to Him. I'm a servant of That. I see that in the life of all the sages. Whether you take Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, you take any of the sages, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Krishna, all have talked at both ends of this spiritual spectrum. They have not said only this and only that.

Bhagavan said very simply, and I loved that quote—I probably posted it again also—he said, 'As long as Duality is there, there must be a devotee.' So if you feel like you've eradicated all Duality from your life, fully open and empty all the time, then you don't need to bother about the servitude part. But because I know it is not true, it is not true for anyone, it is very important. It's the only true way to live because you can either serve your mind or you can serve God. Is there a third option? This is what I've been asking all of you, especially those who are resisting and want to be only 'I am.' Can you confirm that you're always open and empty and you're just allowing God to move you? And if you're just allowing God to move you, then that is exactly the servitude that I'm talking about.

So you can either serve God or you can serve your mind. Is there a third way? Is there a 'me' which is separate from both that wants to live on its independent terms? No, 'me' is just a construct from belief in the mind. I hope all of you can hear this, that there's only—we can either be a servant of God or a servant of the ego. But servitude is inevitable. That which we take to be mastery over our life is servitude to the mental operation, servitude to the ego. If you can see this, then servitude to God will sound like heaven to you, not a place to resist. To live at His feet, to live in His presence, to follow only how He is moving you and how He is guiding you—what better, what higher privilege than that can we get?

Are we not blessed to even have this conversation? Otherwise, you know how people have to live? They have to presume what His will would be by following the ethical precepts in their religion or their spiritual books and presume that that will keep them safe from living in the mind's operation. And following His will here, you can meet Him, you can love Him, and will that love not come with service naturally? So notice that our resistance is trying to hold up a competitive God, which is what the ego's final intention is: to become the ruler of the world.

The Guru would say that the stomach of this 'me' is never full, always saying 'more, more, more, next, next, more.' 'I'm special and deserving.' That's what the ego is, that 'I'm special and deserving, I should be the one getting it.' And preferably and honestly speaking, 'I should be the only one getting it,' is it? So not only do I want to be first, I want to be the only one if I can. And God forbid if somebody else is finding God first, because that seems like an attack on our spiritual identity.

Have we noticed the absurdity of that? That someone, a brother and sister in the world, is coming to God first, and instead of celebrating that it is possible to come to God and we can live in God's light, and instead of giving us reassurance and hope, we feel bad that 'I'm not first.' This is the nature of the mind. This is hell, no? Is there another hell than this? We don't need any other hell. If there is even this, it is enough to live in that kind of separation, distance, aversion to our own brothers and sisters, other children of God. It is hate. We don't realize it, but it's hate. And hate is hell. To feel an aversion to another discovering God is our hatred for them.

So in this world, we have normalized hell, actually. We are living in a hellish way without even realizing. That's why I shared with some of you this show called 'The Good Place' where this—it's like a comedy, but the premise is very, very nice—where this girl who lived a life full of hatred and anger and all of these things, she actually goes to hell. But that hell is designed to look like heaven. And the reveal at the end of—sorry, I spoiled season one—but so that hell is designed to look like heaven. But what is she finding? She's been told that there's a mistake and she got sent to heaven, and she understands it, nobody else knows. So she's trying to get herself to fit in, and all the complexities that happen there are just like this world. Just like the things that happen in your relationships and having to fake a self-image and a lot of these things. And then she realizes by the end of season one that this is actually hell; she's not in heaven, there was no mistake.

So where we can hate each other, where we can be jealous of each other, can that be heaven? Can that be a middle ground even? There is no other hell needed. This is hell if you live like that, and this is heaven if you live in God's presence. So whether you call it a temple of God or you call it the Kingdom of Heaven being within you, escape this hell. Escape this hellish place by living in God's light. I don't know what mechanism of privilege got us to this point where we can talk about living a life in God's light as a reality, as an actuality, instead of a far-fetched notion. Don't you lose this opportunity. Don't lose this opportunity. I cannot tell you how urgent the matter is. It's not meant to create anxiety in you; it is meant to create a dispassion. Empty out your hands from this worldly stuff. Empty it. There's nothing there. It's all dead. It's all dead stuff. Set yourself free. There's no time to waste.

Do we know what tomorrow morning is going to bring? You don't know. Don't leave the opportunity to lead a true life loving God and serving Him for some nonsensical thing which is dead anyway. This body is just like this. It is being animated by a puppeteer. See? Life force, life energy. It is like the wind going through this; it seems like this is alive. It's just like this. It's dead without God's presence. It's dead, you see? So if this hand was not holding it up, it's gone. That's what's going to happen to this. But imagine that we've been given this opportunity to start off believing that we are this, but we can actually live with the Hand, you see? So we don't fall with this like dead meat, but live eternally in God's light.

So don't waste your life on napkin identity. It's nothing. Nothing's going to happen. What do we want in our life? We want another twin napkin to love us and to have the best relationship, soulmates? Then two napkins will dance together. Then what do we want? Do you want to expand the life of this napkin? It should not be torn, it should have good health, become immortal? Can't happen. And who wants to live as a napkin forever? It's all a sham. It's all Leela, Maya. See through this Maya and drop it all.

Whose presence is light to your life? Who is sitting in your heart? Are they just big ideas? Are they just fancy notions, or is it not reality? Aren't your notions of your life plans and what should happen for your body, aren't those the fancy ideas away from the reality of God's presence? The world will tell you, 'Balance it out. Be half napkin, half Hand.' It's all absurd. It's mud, you see? It's mud. Kabir Ji has called this body mud. Nothing. It's a clay pot. It's a clay pot which is going to break. It came from mud, it'll go back to mud.

Stunning, stunning. And the beauty of that whole thing by him is that it is so beautifully multi-layered. You can apply it to like the drama of day-to-day life versus love for God, but you can also apply it as the spiritual request and the longing for God in our heart versus the play of the mind and its desires. It's so stunning. It's like at the hand of God, such a beautiful compilation. The Guru Granth Sahib, I'm realizing that they've done such a beautiful job because it's so strange to meet this sage from a different tradition through the Sikh scripture of the Guru Granth Sahib. So beautiful. And a lot of the things that I feel like he said are not available anywhere else but here. Sheikh Farid Ji, Sufi tradition, he was one of the Sheikh spiritual masters. So beautifully they compiled all this. Like the Guru is one where both the ends of this—the Ultimate Reality of the One, Ik Onkar, which is the one reality, and the love and servitude to God—both are equally available. Okay, thank you. Thank you all.