The Only “Thing” That You Can Truly Know, Is What You Are - 27th August 2021

I am not—I see you're pointing something, but what is being pointed at, that I can't say.

So empty of interpretation, you see what is here. What is here that doesn't need any conceptual understanding?

This is just what is. Is means I am. I am here with this. I am perceiving, I am conscious. So this doesn't need any conceptual understanding.

Yes, yes. And this is the very Self that you're looking for. Does that which is here, which is known through a deeper knowing than conceptual knowledge—which basically means independent of any concept or even perception actually—that which is here now, does that have any problem or any boundary or any shape?

No.

Is it separate from you?

No.

So whatever answer I may be giving you, if it just becomes another compartment in your intellect saying, 'Okay, this is how this is,' then it will become problematic and it'll have to be plucked out. But the answers are just meant to point you to this openness, nakedness, emptiness. Okay, I stated this. So what did you say is that you heard satsang, you picked on a very important pointer, you see, and it obviously resonated with you in the heart somewhere and that is why it stayed with you. Now the mind will say, 'I need to understand this better,' but there's nothing better to understand. You see, it's quite clear that empty of any interpretation, all perceptions can come and go; therefore attention can go anywhere and doesn't have to be controlled. But you are free in that pure perception. Without emotions, without interpretation, there is nothing else that is needed because what you truly are is fully apparent to you, but it is inexpressible, you see. Therefore it provides no benefit to the person. It doesn't help us in some personal freedom or some personal enlightenment. So the mind then clamors for it and says, 'I want more to get deeper into this and understand this more so then I can benefit from that.' But that is not what it is about at all. You're doing very well, you see. You're doing very well. Now I don't want to burden you with additional notions which will just become part of the spiritual ego rather than a true understanding, which is a heart understanding.

Thank you. It is not—well, not something that is meant to get you to keep quiet or something. It is just to expose the trick of the mind which takes on something which is beneficial and then says, 'Ah, okay, now I want to make an understanding out of this so that I can progress even deeper.' But actually that kind of understanding, your conceptual understanding, will only lead to more conditions, more conditioning, and therefore more ignorance.

So this right now, the unexplainable, is very good. I mean, a matter of speaking, can you explain what is right now? And you can start with what is manifest, because unmanifest is unexplainable.

Right now I am aware that I am in satsang with you. I am sitting here, my body is here, and your image is appearing on screen in front of me.

Have you captured everything? No. So one moment we are not able to capture conceptually because even if you had millions of words, you would miss out on something that is here right now. And yet the mind proposes to us a narrative about our life and says, 'Okay, I am a spiritual seeker, I come to satsang for this,' you see. But we don't know—even one moment we cannot truly capture in our heads. So to be able to capture a life is impossible. So the notion of even wanting or getting or understanding, all of these is based on false pretext and I'm trying to chop away all of those pretexts. I'm trying to let you let go of all the false knowing which pretends to be a true knowing. That is ignorance posing as if it is the truth. Now what is, is apparent to you in a deeper space intuitively and therefore, absent of notions, you are not lost. When you're open and empty, are you lost? But the proposal from the mind is that 'Without me you are lost,' but that is not your experience.

See the no-mind, but that has been a habit.

Exactly, exactly. So that's why Guruji called satsang a de-addiction center. Okay, so satsang is not an environment in which we propagate the habit even more by giving you more concepts to feed on, you see. There's a lot of talk maybe happening, but all the talk is meant to be deconstructive or dilutive and not constructive conceptually. Yes, what is missing in the no-mind? In your notionless existence, you're as free as the greatest sage. In the unborn, there is no distinction between you and the greatest sage. Thank you. See which one intuition calls upon. There are two Sarahs from USC. Let's look at the same one. You have separate audio and separate video. Do you want to come up?

Yes, I would. I would love to. Can you unmute my other one? Can I say something now? We don't hear you. Let me unmute this one you're saying. Okay, let's try this one now. Say something. Okay, how about now? Kind of. Okay, is this better? Yes, yes, my dear, go ahead. Okay, I couldn't—sorry, I couldn't find—my computer is an older version so I couldn't find the raise hand. Find it on my phone to get you. Thank you, thank you. I just felt to come up because I can see that it's all mind, but there's a very, very heavy sort of—just a very heavy state that I wanted to look with you. Because I can see it's not about changing any circumstances, although the person would like that, but I know that's not the true answer.

Yes. So the heavy state, can you say that it's like an energetic construct which seems restrictive? Is that what it is?

Yes, and it carries with it very heavy thoughts and seems to block just even the simplest sort of action. And yeah, it's just sort of like a hopeless—like there's no way out of this.

Yes. And just for a moment, is there space to just look at who is suffering from this? Yes. So that which perceives this heaviness, is that which perceives this heaviness also heavy as a result of this perception?

Well, I know that it isn't, and there's a doorway in, but it feels a bit conceptual at the moment.

Yes, so just take your time and don't worry about conceptual knowledge because everyone here knows the right answer. Just to see if we can recognize it fresh in this moment. Can you ask again? Yes. So there's a perceived state of heaviness which supposedly is energetic. Now we're just checking whether that which perceives this heaviness also becomes heavy as a result of this perception.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

So then this that perceives this energy is not affected by it. Who else is there?

Well, there's a someone who's believing, there's a sense of a someone who's interpreting this energy.

So let's keep observing. Interpretations are arriving or arising in the mind. Heaviness is perceived. These interpretations are perceived. Is the one who is getting affected by any of this—is that perceived?

What was the very last part?

The one that is affected by these perceptions, can that be perceived right now?

It feels like no. Like there's just one that's interpreting and that's the only one.

Which one is interpreting? Me. What is the shape of that one?

Well, at this moment it feels like this body, but I know that isn't.

Yeah, this body is fine in a way. It does not want freedom. It does not want to come to satsang. It's a pretty innocent instrument actually. It's not asking you for anything; it is just sitting there. It's fine. But there's an emotional entity. This emotional entity means just made up of beliefs, made up of identification, which has likes and dislikes, preferences and ideas. It has an idea of heaviness or lightness, see? Because what is appearing, it is heavy in relation to what?

Well, it's all in relation to the belief that I am this body and that these things that are occurring are a challenge for the body.

Yes, but heavy as compared to what? What being liked? Just an idea that if it was not there, then that would be my natural state, you see. So there's an idea that without this I am better off, and that is the idea of lightness or openness, you see, versus when this is there, then saying, 'Okay, this should not be there.' Now if you did not have that distinction, because you can't find the one who is affected by it anyway, and if you did not have that distinction—or if you can do a quick experiment. And if I was to say that all those who are feeling exactly the heaviness that Sarah is feeling right now will be forever free from this time onwards, you see, but they have to continue to feel this for the next 15 minutes. So then would you want it to go away now? Keep it. Oh, stay for 15 minutes at least because I want you to be there, you see. So it's just a switch in mental perspective has gone from something resistive to something inviting, in fact welcoming and even celebrating that this is a good deal, you know, just 15 minutes of this and then I'm free forever. So you see that it's never in the perception itself; it is always in the idea that we have about it that determines our position with regards to it. So the experiment was not so that you become welcoming or inviting about it; it is just to show you that either position is actually ignorance, and just open to whatever may be arising is the truth, is freedom, you see. Because freedom doesn't mean that something cannot come or only good feelings should come or these energies should come. It is not like that. Everything is allowed to come and that is why it is freedom, in the recognition that what you truly are remains untouched by anything that may come.

Can I say what's coming? Yeah, that's it. So there's a knowing and there's a knowing that what you're saying is true, but how to let go of or how to—there's a frustration because it's like I know what you're saying is true and yet there's still a preference or there's still an experience of suffering something and a lot of pain and...

Yes, yes. I'll give you a tip. This will be very helpful. So there's an aspect of your existence, there's a playground within your existence where this fight can happen like...

Like a, um, there's a knowing that what you're saying is true. Um, but how to let go of, or how to... there's a frustration because it's like I know, I know what you're saying is true, and yet there's still a preference, or there's still a, there's still, there's still an experience of suffering something and a lot of pain and...

Yes, yes. I'll give you a tip; this will be very helpful. So, there's an aspect of your existence, there's a playground within your existence where this fight can happen, like the knowing of the truthiness of what I'm saying. So, you see the trueness of what I'm saying, the frustration that I can't let go, you see? So, that aspect of your being, you see, let that go for a moment and check what else is there to you. Don't conclude anything there. Leave it. Whatever battles are happening, let them happen. Is to you, is there something more?

There's an awareness that that's sort of just going on.

Yes, yes. Just audit your beingness. Audit your beingness and see how much of the space of your beingness does your mind-intellect take up? How big is it compared to your being? Just check for yourself. It's a very small space, and yet in the human condition, we have somehow become obsessed with resolutions in that tiny playground of the mind-intellect. And in that, we miss the god-godliness of our beingness, which is so beyond all of these tiny concepts and constraints. So, what is the way to let it go? It is to let go of any idea of resolution or conclusion. If it didn't matter to you what happened in that boxing match, you see, between your concepts, and you just leave that boxing ring alone. And that's why I was asking the previous questioner that without relying on that space, are you lost? Are you lost? No. There is nothing that you need to know conceptually to exist. Existence exists effortlessly and plays out in its most beautiful light. But if we determine something in that conceptual area—that this is how it should be, this should not be here, this kind of thing—then that sort of puts a lens to the rest of the experience of our divinity and makes us believe ourselves to be this tiny body-mind object, which you can never be. Yet, so to come to freedom is not to be able to conclude the best conclusion in that playground; it is to let go of that playground. Now, sometimes the playground will scream. There'll be screams from the playground coming: 'Come look at me, we need to do this.' Just let go. Nothing is being hurt. If you visit there where you're visiting now, you will only find trouble. Yeah, don't visit there. It's fine.

Well, I can see they're like looking for something to hold on to even. And I remember you saying, like, really we're only in... we say we're in service to the Guru, but really we're in service to our highest concept and...

People, let me ask you this: If your Guru did not help you at all, would you be in service to him or her?

Yes.

Good, that's a good answer. But usually the answer is, 'No, I am in service to my Guru because he will give me freedom or he will show me the way,' you see? That's the usual thing. And if the Guru did not do any of that, then it would be a useless Guru. I'm not saying in your case; I love your answer. But usually, at least here when I was spiritual shopping, I went to various Gurus. As long as they were serving me, then I was serving them. And when my mind concluded that they are not serving me in any way—I'm not progressing, I'm not finding the truth—then I said, 'I need to find a better place to go,' see? So, the highest concept of ourselves being, or actually the lowest or highest, is this notion of 'me.' As long as something is in service to that, we agree to have a relationship with that. But the Guru is actually the one relationship which is plucking out this concept of 'me.' And many times in Satsang, you will feel, many will feel like, 'But this is not helping me at all. Why should I stay here? It's not helping me at all.' But the thing is that we don't recognize that the 'me' that we think needs help actually is the one that needs to be plucked out. Yes, yes. So, there's a sense of being so with you in that. That which is true will remain apparent. Without reference to the mind, the truths will remain apparent. It is only the faults which is let you this. Great. Well, for a little bit of time, it may seem like as if it takes some effort to disinvest from this little playground of mind-intellect. It may seem like it takes a bit of effort, and if it feels that way, just make the effort. It's fine.

This is the first time I'm coming to your Satsang. I have been following Mooji from the last one year, and I came to Satsang maybe because I was diagnosed with depression three years before and I was suffering a lot. But when last year I discovered Mooji—there were many teachers like Eckhart Tolle and others also whom I followed—but it was an intuition to stay with Mooji. And there were several periods of, like, I was normal for two to three months and then I was hearted by depression. And so it happened once, and then after that I had to continue my medications. And then there was a sudden explosion of, like, truth, and everything seemed so divine. Like, everything seemed so beautiful. Everything, people around me changed. They said that I feel a peace, I feel peace near you, and they used to report very nice things being by my side. But it remained till this January and till this April also. In April it was very beautiful, but after that I don't know what happened. But from me, I am still struggling with myself. From me, I am struggling with myself. And then it happened, not all the days I used to struggle, but it happened that some days it was a very nice insight. And before I was in pain and there was so much pain and suffering, but after the insight, like, everything shed. Everything shed—the pain shed, and the suffering shed, the fear shed, and everything became so beautiful. But again the depression came, and so it used to oscillate. Like, insights came and everything became beautiful, and then depression came. And so it happened that recently Mooji has been sharing that take one pointing and stay with that. Take one pointing that resonates with you and stay with that. And so I found that watching Satsangs, it is like I used to love watching Satsangs, but now with this depression, it become hard for me to continue watching that. And also, my family, my parents don't support me in this because sometimes I feel so anxious and I want to tell that to my parents, like, I'm feel... I watch this and I want to clarify this, but they don't support. They are not supportive in spirituality. So, I now told my parents that I have been watching Mooji and they became so angry and so frustrated with me, and they have asked me to stop watching. And they have asked me so intensely that if they again see me watching him, they might abandon me also. But that doesn't affect me much. I would continue watching him if I am able to watch him and am able to apply his pointings. But for this time, I want to marinate in one pointing that I want to clarify with you. That one pointing is that—that brought fruits also—was that everything, everything from the subtlest, from the feelings, like, everything was perceivable and nothing can exist out of, like, nothing can exist out of perceiving space. Like, everything is in this, in this scene. Like, even if it comes, no, everything is not in the scene, it's also perceivable. And this I wanted to clarify, that should I stay with this?

Yes, yes. Thank you. Firstly, thank you for this beautiful report, and I see that my Master's grace is taking care of you and I'm happy to serve that grace in whichever way, you know, this will move this body. I'm happy to be in service to them. Now, you said something very beautiful where Guruji has been pointing and saying, 'Just take one pointing that resonates in your heart and really contemplate, go deeply into that, allow it to do the entire cleanup operation.' But one tip I want to give you about this is that don't then keep an expectation about what it should do. Because if you keep one thing in your heart, but that one thing actually is so that it can help an apparent 'you,' then that is actually holding two things in your heart. And actually, the second one, which is that 'I hold this one thing so that it helps me,' is the primary. And it is somewhat similar to what we were talking about earlier. So, that development of trust has already happened where you've seen that being in Satsang has brought so much clarity, so much intuitive intelligence to your life. Now, just based on that trust, follow the pointing which resonates with you. And it's a beautiful pointing, just to see that everything, everything is seen. Everything is seen, and therefore by virtue of it being seen, it comes and goes, and therefore it is not permanent. So, to not get attached to that is the crux of the point. So, it's a beautiful pointing and it'll do the cleanup job. But if you keep evaluating and checking on how well it is working or not—'Is it doing the cleanup? How much cleanup happened today?' you see, 'Am I feeling happy today as a result of this or not?'—then you find that actually it is not the pointing which is primary; it is the desire or the expectation of what you want it to do which is primary, see? Now, a devotion to a Master or devotion to the Satguru presence is so all-encompassing that it sort of demands a devotion which is independent of what you want out of it. And I know the mind will complain and say, 'But I came into this because I was depressed, so if it doesn't help me with my depression, then what is the point?' you see? But that is where trust comes in. If everything was rationalizable, then what is the need of trust? Then you've got a rational... like if it is rational to you that two plus two equals four, then this is just like that, then there's no need to trust the answer four, see? Trust comes in where you cannot rationalize it to yourself. Trust is independent devotion, especially independent of what you think should happen as a result of following the Master's pointing. So, it is my blessing and my prediction that if you keep on this self-inquiry and keep off expectation, all will happen in my Master's grace. But if you keep checking whether it is happening or not, then it will only seem to prolong the seeming journey.

Hello, can you hear me? Hello, good to see you. Yes, huh, yeah. Yeah, I think I started following you in spring '14, something. So happy to see you. Yeah, thank you. Um, this head is all over the place, so I don't really know how to... ah, what has happened. I don't... you don't remember that, but what happened before I started following you was that everything fell away on a retreat with Mooji where everything go away and he stayed away for four or five months. And then the idea of 'me' started coming back, and then there was the oscillations and periods with openings—that's how I name it—and closings and opens. And of course, I cannot ever be blocked, I know that. But, um, yeah, thank you. It's difficult because before these Satsangs, the problem is huge. You start talking and pointing and it shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. But it seems like, it seems like that there's this tweak in the sand—you heard Mooji? Yes. Yeah. And there have been many, many losses since 2013: relationships, homes, partner, job, health. And the last one came last year where... bankruptcy. Nice, yeah. And that's huge. And that's the tweak in the sand. It's so distracting. So there's this sense of... and now fear has showed up. I know it's from the mind and...

No, no, it's not from the mind. Nothing comes from the mind. It all comes spontaneously. It's just thoughts. But it shows up and there's a fear for the relative level, you know: 'Now you're going to be poor and...'

There have been many, many losses since 2013: relationships, homes, partner, job, health. And the last one came last year, which was bankruptcy. Nice, yeah. And that's huge, and that's the trick in the sand. It's so distracting. So there's this sense of—and now fear has showed up. I know it's from the mind and—

No, no, it's not from the mind. Nothing comes from the mind. It all comes spontaneously. It's just thoughts, but it shows up. And there's a fear for the relative level, you know? Now you're going to be poor and homeless. And the other one is—and that's bigger—that is to go back to ignorance completely. And that's the worst fear ever.

I don't know what to do, and there's no need to do it. And it has been seen so many times, and under that, this is Self reading and revealing itself. And that's the dance and nothing else. It's nothing else. But now there's this being caught in this idea.

Yes, I'm using it. Yeah, yeah. I have to say that, firstly, it's very nice to see you again. And I noticed that there's a certain lightness and openness in your being compared to what little memory I have of those times. And even though you seem to be, on the worldly level, going through some strong challenges as far as the manifest level is concerned, and yet behind all of that, I see some openness, some acceptance, some of that which is very beautiful to see.

Often I say that in the human condition, actually, we may think it's very complicated, but actually it's very straightforward. There are four variables, four challenges that all of us face. One is the challenge of relationships, you see? Now these can be romantic partner-type relationships or other relationships that we have, special relationships. So that is the first one. The second one is about security, which means money, work, job. The third one is about the health of the body and the fact that no matter what we do, this body is actually on a path towards its death and towards the funeral in one way or the other. So to try and keep that active and alive is the third challenge. And the fourth challenge is this search for meaning or freedom or enlightenment and wanting to find the ultimate cause of existence, and all of that comes into them.

Now you mentioned that you've gone through like three of these at least, if not all four. And so life is throwing these things at you, all the challenges that it can have. And yet you said when you come into Satsang, that which seems so big doesn't seem that big anymore. It just seems to get tinier. And I often face that tantrum, actually, saying, 'It's not fair. We have these problems. We want to get these solutions from you, but we come here and we forget the problems, and then we go out again and these problems seem real again.' Yeah, then I say, 'Oh, but there's no way I can help that.' So, but what if I want you to help? Yes, yes.

So if I was to ask you, the sense of being that is here now, is that apparent and palpable to you?

Not all the time, no.

Just look. Just right now.

Right now, okay. Yeah, it is.

Has it anything to do with the body?

Absolutely not. At best, the body is another set of sensations or perceptions within it. You just used those words. We can say like that.

Now this being, you see, because the mind will tell you that, 'Okay, but it's not all the time.' Is it affected by time in any way? So, and when it seems like, 'Okay, I've lost my being, I'm just being a person,' these kind of things, there are some times where it will not be noticed and we have to go through those times, and that is fine. But when it is noticed, then we can just ask ourselves: Can I stop being? In spite of whatever may be happening, is my being still here?

Can't stop, no.

Now whose being is that? Whose presence is that?

The true answer right now would be it's no one's.

Yeah, yeah. And that no one is God, independent of what we may believe about God, just using the term. So, but it is the highest presence, yes? The highest beingness, the highest force in this universe, you see, which is your being. It has no boundary, it has no shape, it has nothing to do with coming and going. Just here. This is what I mean when I say that when we are running around trying to fix things—and I'm not talking about as the body, I'm talking about our inner attitude, because as the body it can run around, it is fine, there is no trouble with that—so when our inner attitude is that of grasping and needing and wanting, we are actually forgetting that God stays in our heart. In our living room He's sitting, but we are looking all over the place for Him, you see, or Her. So this is the beautiful discovery that we come to in Satsang. Now you are aware even of this being.

I know. May I? Because in these openings, it's like what's seen is God, wherever, whatever is God. And I am God—not in an arrogant way, really—but then at some point that was seen, that that could be seen too. And then something collapsed because that seemed arrogant. How? Because I knew that I am that something that can see God, and that didn't—you know, everything collapsed again.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe everything conceptually may collapse as a result of that insight, but that insight cannot go away, you see? So let everything collapse, because in that, the notion of the distinction between the manifest and unmanifest, between the Absolute and consciousness, between beingness and awareness—all these will also collapse. And that is good news. That is good news because even these distinctions are only provisional, just to communicate in Satsang, to point to a qualitative distinction just to bring you out of the notion of individuality. Though the masters may use these terms, but these terms are not really real from the Absolute perspective. So even these collapse and are just provisional. So the collapsing is actually a good thing.

May I ask you one more thing? Because it seems to be, in the collapsing, there seems to be a dissolving. And that sometimes closes up. So the identification shows up again because of some fear, because it's really dissolving, it seems. Please correct me if—because from here it seemed like everything has already happened and yet nothing ever happened. It's so crazy.

Very beautiful. It's great. And when we speak like that, there is nothing like wrong or right. It's impossible to correct or to validate, you see, or invalidate anything like that, because it is just so beyond the mind. And anything that is beyond the mind is not in the boundary of right or wrong; it's left the opposites behind. So it's beautiful. It's very nice. But don't make any sort of conceptual understanding out of it.

Of course, no. And how to not do that? Because the mind shows up sometimes and wants to grab it.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just notice it like that. That is how to not do it, you see? Once you notice that, then you don't do it. You only believe what you take to be true. But if you're already noticing that this is the mind trick and this is what it tries to do, you're not doing it. Don't worry, it's fine. In that noticing, you're not building up this condition. So that itself is good enough.

Thank you. Love you so much.

Okay, let's go to—I haven't seen Shankar in quite some time, so we can go to Shankar first.

Can you hear me?

Yes, yes, my love. Hello, hello. How are you?

Hey, again, like the previous person, it's been years since I've spoken to you. But I'm very happy, I'm very happy to see—when I do see your messages from time to time on Facebook and things, it's very exciting. It's wonderful to be here speaking to you again. And I just wanted to check in, you know, and it's been so long and so many things have happened, but nothing's changed, Father. Nothing's changed, you know. I don't want to catch you up on my whole personal life, but you better—anything but. But I just felt to come on and tell you how much I love you. And you know, there's not a day that goes by I don't think about you and Mooji. And I've had a lot happen between then and now, but what's interesting—and I think, you know, other than a few more gray hairs—

Yeah, right. Yeah, same, same.

Nothing has changed, you know. And there was a point where I was so entangled with the identity of this person, and through your guidance and love and Guruji's love and guidance, it was shown to me that nothing is here but pure perception, right? And rolling through all the things that have happened over the last couple of years, with that as a tether, I guess, is maybe the right word or the wrong word, but as something that I know that this is all just things that I'm seeing. Yes, all these events, all these emotions, all these beliefs, all these things, you know. And I wasn't a spiritual chaser, you know. I will tell you that you came into my life completely accidentally. Yeah, completely accidentally. And things have never been the same since. I tell the story a lot to a lot of people, that there was a time when things went from this to that. And the—I don't know how to say it—the consistency of awareness is astounding to me.

Yes, you know. Yeah, it's cool. It's bulletproof.

Yeah, I mean, it's bulletproof. And I've taken a bunch of bullets over the last couple years and, again, here I am just with some more gray hairs and that's it.

It's very well put, very well. I enjoyed this report very much because the truth of yourselves is never shaken no matter what happens. I like this bullet truth. It's very nice.

Yeah, it's gotten—and I don't want to say it's gotten me through anything because that's sort of a cliché way to put it, but—and I don't use it as a mechanism, you know? It's not something that I can even use as a coping mechanism. I don't have a choice but to just perceive all things that happen in me, outside of me, and that's just the way it is now. I've had some struggles, right? But you know, I think I told you a long time ago, if I woke up tomorrow as a woman, I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be the same. I'd be the same person. Yeah, nothing would fundamentally change, you know. And that is that I am unwavering, unbounded, just simple. You know, as Mooji says, floating eyeballs in the middle of the universe, just perception. And I just—all these new faces that I see, you know, when I hop on here once in a while and all the people on Facebook—and I just wanted to kind of report back to you that even though we have not been in contact for years, you're with me all the time. And we are together all the time, and I love you very much. And I wish I had something more juicy to tell you.

Oh, this has been the best report. I always feel like—I feel a complete integrity and a complete love and trust in this report, and I'm so happy. I'm so happy to see you like this. But don't make it another five years before you show up like this, okay? I promise, I promise. I know that in reality you've been here, I have been with you in your heart, you've been here in my heart, but it's sometimes nice to play this Leela conversation and things also. It's quite sweet.

So at your feet. Love you so much.

Let me go back to Saloni because she's—mad, sorry.

Actually, what happens is that my parents are completely strictly not allowing me to be in Satsang, and my mother came and she asked, 'What are you doing?' So I had to disconnect. Sorry, I'm sorry.

No, it's fine. That's understandable. It's understandable. We guessed it as much, actually. When you left, we guessed as much that your parents may have come. Now I just want to remind you, although it's there in the recording, what I said is that you noticed very beautifully that something resonated with Guruji's pointing about how everything is perceived, and by the nature of it being perceived, it is not true. It is not the reality, and therefore—

You doing so I have to—I had to disconnect. Sorry, I'm sorry. No, it's mine. That's understandable. It's understandable. We guessed it as much, actually. When you left, we guessed as much that your parents may have come. Now, I just want to remind you, although it's there in the recording, what I said is that you noticed very beautifully that something resonated with Guruji's pointing about how everything is perceived, and by the nature of it being perceived, it is not true. It is not the reality. And therefore, to remember that is to not get attached to anything that is perceived, isn't it? So that's a beautiful pointing.

Now, Guruji pointed to us and said, 'Keep one pointing with you and use that to do the whole cleanup job,' so to speak. Yes, the thing is that what I was—advice that came up for you. So the advice that came was that now, the one thing requires that you keep just that one thing. Now you're inadvertently keeping two things. The second thing is how that is helping you and how it is changing your state. So then what can happen is the mind can play a trick with you and say, 'Okay, now this is working very well because I'm feeling happy and not depressed,' or on other times, 'But this is not working and I'm still feeling depressed and not happy.'

Now, the trust of the devotion to the Master requires that independent of what we may think our state is changing based on following a pointing, independent of that, we trust the Master and follow. That means that we don't keep our own benchmark reporting report cards, you see? People, otherwise what can happen is that the Master's pointing is actually secondary as and in service to what we think we want. So when you follow—and it's a great freedom actually—when you follow a Master, then let go of everything else. Just follow just that. Just follow just that, you see? Don't use it as a tool to fix something else.

Now your mind will fight that, of course, and it will say, 'But I came into Satsang because I was depressed and I wanted a solution. Now you're saying don't track that or don't report to yourself on it, don't make a report card for yourself on it.' So your mind will complain like that. But in that tracking and keeping track of your progress and things, it will just become like a spiritual checker guy, which is a spiritual ego which will want to use pointings from the Master to help itself.

So freedom means that you trust the Master, you're devoted to the Master, then you found the pointing which resonates deeply in your heart, then just follow it independent of what you may think is happening. It will dissolve all egoic aspects of your being, and the light and the brightness of your pure beingness is bound to flow through. And I am predicting this and I am blessing this to you, that all of this is in your devotion at my Master's pointings and in his heart. All that your heart truly is longing for will come true. But if you continue to be the checker guy and saying, 'Okay, it's working, it's not working,' then you'll just prolong the suffering. You just prolong the saving journey.

One thing that I want to add is that now I have stopped watching his Satsangs and my mind says, 'Oh, you are not following him,' and it makes me feel guilty for that. And I want—so I have just—I am just—that's why I am sticking to one pointing because that resonates with me and that I feel like that is the best way to be in touch with him.

So I'm going to tell you that don't make any declarative statement in the sense that forget it, like whether you're watching or not watching. Forget about it. Moment to moment, allow your heart to allow your intuition to guide you. So sometimes you hear such an announcement and you join when your heart is open to it. On other times it'll say it's fine in the heart, you see? As long as you're not listening to your mind, then trust that. Because otherwise your mind will make like a template as to how to do this: 'Now follow that one pointing means don't listen to any other Satsang.' But that is too primitive conceptually for anyone to live their life on these kind of basis. Life is so full, it is too broad for us to make templates which are just so prescriptive and, you know, just like that.

So I'm not saying watch every Satsang, but I'm not saying don't watch. I'm just saying just follow your intuitive guidance. It'll guide you moment to moment. And how do you know that you're following your intuition? As long as you're not buying any idea of your limitation from the mind, you're following your intuition. So you'll be well guided by your heart in that. Guruji has given you a masterpiece which resonates already in your heart, so you remain in that inquiry. That is very beautiful. But don't become hard about anything in life. Just soften them. Just soften up. Just allow this divine teacher, which is my Master's presence in your very heart, in your intuitive presence, to guide you moment to moment. So don't make any statement. Just say, 'Saloni is in Guruji's hands. I don't know. Do I want Satsang? I don't know. Do I not watch Satsang? I don't know.'

Is he not as mental excuses, but really from the heart? It seems like once I was able to do that, I was able to be completely surrendered, but sometimes I am not able to do that.

So sometimes it becomes hard. Nobody is hundred percent free, okay? Even the greatest, nobody is hundred percent. But just don't be hard on yourself, you see? Don't make that mean something. Because a moment or two of identification may come, but if you feel guilty about that and say, 'I'm unworthy' or 'I've lost my freedom' or something like that, you see, then that just adds to the condition. You noticed it, it's gone. Forget about it, it's finished, you see? Don't insert yourself in any narrative. If you become like a narrator about your life, then you're still taking yourself to be in that time and space and taking yourself to be a limited object.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Okay, let's go to Claudia.

Hello, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes, yes, yes. Good.

Since we spoke last time, I—how to say? It's like being a funambulist, you know?

I didn't get—I hear that word well. If you—funambulist?

Walking—how do you call it? Walking on a rope in the air with the bar and you're working on the tightrope.

Yes, something like that. There isn't—yes, let's see. Balancing act.

Yes, yes. This is acrobacy I'm doing because I can't go anymore to the sides of the 'me,' of the little me. It's like, 'No, no, this I don't want. I am not that. This is an experience.' And going to the—but there is going to the other side and there is no other side. I can say I am not that, but I can't say I am that. There is a deeper knowing that there is no rope, no bar. This all doesn't exist.

But yes, this is this balance. And I can say I experience beingness and I am aware, but not 'I am that' and nothing exists, you know?

It's such a beautiful thing that just before I came into Satsang, I saw that Mahesh had posted something from Maharaja and said, 'It is enough to know what you are not,' you see? You don't need to know what you are. See what that means is that conceptually what you are, you cannot know, but it is enough to negate what you think you are, you see? So to know what you are not is good enough.

Now, you said beautifully that, 'I can see I'm not this person, I'm not this limited one. Through my inner insight, my intuitive insight, I am aware of my beingness and I'm aware that I am aware.' See, but conceptually I can't say that 'I am that.' That is beautiful, you see? Because the mind can never capture your intuitive insight. See, so you don't have to be in a rush to put your discovery, which your intuitive discovery is, into any words. You'll find it natural for some period of time that you will not be able to speak about yourself authoritatively at all because it is so clear to you what you are not. But to try and put what you are or what insight you are having about yourself into words will seem too strange.

So even notions like 'I am that' or 'I am the beingness' or 'I am awareness' or 'I am the Self' will seem too strange or too difficult to put in words, you see? So don't worry about that. You continue in your intuitive insight about what you are and therefore, in your intuitive insight, you are negating what you are not. That much is enough. That much is more than enough. You don't have to make any positive conclusion about who you are. That is just apparent. That is just apparent to you, but you don't have to put it into words until one day the Master puts some words in your mouth and you start speaking them naturally, you see? That is fine if it happens that way.

Yes, because it doesn't come out of my mouth, 'I am that.'

Yeah, it doesn't have to. You don't have to push it. You don't have to say it at all.

Yes, but there is this wish that the person, the rope and all this acrobatic walking should—it should disappear.

Yes, but now that you see this, that the negation is on one side and that is apparent to you that you are not a person, and like you said, there is nothing on the other side, so you don't have to balance anything actually. Yeah, because this intuition is there. Yes, because it's some big persona of somebody who is trying to balance between your unlimited and limited, you see? Doesn't that become a new identity? So you are not that. See that you are not there who is balancing.

So the mind tries to put even your intuitive insight and what is happening to you into some sort of a narrative, but again, in the narrative, you will take yourself to be something limited. So it's good as a tool for communication, like you used it now to communicate, which is fine, but if you start taking it too seriously, then it will create another persona around how you're trying to now assimilate the information and you're trying to negate the limited, you see? All that is still in time and space and not with your reality.

To not have a narrative, so allow that strangeness and nakedness to play out without anything to hold on to. Because you'll see that all the representations from the mind are not truly representing you. It can feel a bit strange. So, 'How do I—what is happening in my life? What is happening in my life?' You see, the mind is always proposing answers to this question, but those answers are not true and they just serve to make the life limited, like give you a lens of limitation through which to view life. So if you could not—if you were not able to determine what is your current state of progress in spirituality, that is just fine.

I don't know if it is a trick of the mind, but even mind doesn't want any—doesn't want to be bothered with thoughts and it's as if—as if mind would like to be freed of itself.

Yeah, it could feel like that. Check even the mind feeling like it's done. Yeah, yeah, it's done with this. It can feel like that at times. But continue to not buy into any limited representations of yourself, you see? Because sometimes the mind can also throw a bait at you saying, 'See, I am reformed now, I am on your side.' But you don't need those representations about yourself because your intuition is already clear. So you don't need to add on anything from the mind to that. Very good. I'm happy to hear your report. It's very—

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Let's go to—I will pronounce it wrong and I forgot another one. Hello, Lyla.

So, I don't know what I'm going to say exactly. I know that the last Satsang I tried to put my hand up and couldn't find the button, so it was too late. And so today, as soon as I got on, I pressed the button. I think maybe it's—I know that every time that I've been speaking to you, it's really been on behalf of the non-existent one and really trying to help that one. And I still—I just feel like I'm the most identified with that one that I've ever been in my life right now. And it feels so urgent and I'm so strongly believing it. And I know I hear other people's stories of the things that—

I couldn't find the button, so it was too late. So today, as soon as I got on, I pressed the button. I think maybe it's... I know that every time that I've been speaking to you, it's really been on behalf of the non-existent one and really trying to help that one. And I still... I just feel like I'm the most identified with that one that I've ever been in my life right now, and it feels so urgent, and I'm so strongly believing it. And I know I hear other people's stories of the things that everyone else is... I'm so sorry, yeah. I'm sorry, my dear. I feel like the universe doesn't want me to be speaking. Yeah, I feel like I just don't feel like the most... I hear other people's stories and it's funny, I can say it feels like, 'Oh, they can deal with their... that's hard, but they can deal with it. They know what they're doing.' But I don't feel the same about myself. I don't think dominance is very common to feel like, but he's answered them, why can't you just drop it? Why can't you just stop? And when it comes to ours, then it just feels more difficult and so heavy to drop.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think I mentioned... I think that somehow that I have... I moved to Ireland with three little dogs. I have two left; one passed away. And I feel very... I think that's an added dimension to that feels so significant. I have no one else that can take care of them if something else happens to me, and I'm trying desperately to find something to... and it's funny how it seems so important, like that if something happens to me that they're taken care of. And they're old; they're old dogs with health problems. And it feels so important that I'm here. I'm here to take care of them. And I know everyone has something, and it just feels so important. And really, like, I can't... it seems like I stay awake thinking, you know? And I know that this isn't the best thing for them; it's not helping them for me to be completely identified with this. But I don't know how to drop it. I just went through Mooji's retreat and I'm not able to hear anymore, and I'm just so identified. I don't know even what it was five years ago that I was so sure it was true, and now I feel so far from that. I feel like sometimes, like, what am I even doing here? So I'll stop talking now, I guess.

It's fine, that's fine. Thank you for that report. Everything is going to go. Everything is going to go. Everything that you can perceive, everything that you can hold on to. Like we were saying about this great Indian sage Kabir Ji, he put it in a beautiful way which said everything is going to throw you out, you see? Everything is going to throw you out. This world will throw you out, your house will throw you out, your pets will throw you out, your relationship will throw you out. What does it mean? When death comes, you see, there's nothing that we can hold on to. Everything's gonna throw you out. So it is worthy then to focus and bring some time and attention to that which will not throw us out, because no matter what we do, this world will never become permanent. It is going to be ephemeral.

So inevitably we are going towards all of this not being there, whether it is in deep sleep state tonight or whether it is in that motion of death which all of us have. Either way, we notice that what we perceive is not permanent. Now, what if you were to recognize that which is eternal, which is timeless in fact? And you discover yourself to be that, and you notice that you are unaffected by this movement of life to death, of waking to sleep. See, all of these days coming and going don't really mean anything in reality to what you are. What if that discovery could truly be yours? And not only that, you also recognize the supreme intelligence which is running this universe, which is doing a fantastic job of it, you see? Except for our mind's interpretation, it is running it beautifully.

So it doesn't need the personal 'me' to intervene and to take care of somebody or to take care of life in some way or the other, because God is, and God is taking care of everything. And it happens in all situations. I see like some people feel like in the house people cannot do without them, but they do fine, you see? Some people feel like in their companies people can't do without them, like the whole company will collapse, but mostly the company also does fine, you see? They feel like, 'How will this world run without me?' and it runs perfectly fine now.

So it's best not to allow these things to become primary in our lives. And if the contemplation on death is really happening, then can it become broader than just a worry about death into a true contemplation about what will die and what will remain deathless? See, because otherwise it's a wasted opportunity in the sense that it just becomes into, 'Oh, what's going to happen to my family and my parents and who will take care of them?' as if God just doesn't have a plan or something like that. So this becomes into this kind of irrational mode of thinking which makes us the central character in this narrative and feels like, 'What is going to happen without this?' You see, 'God cannot run this world without my being there.' These kind of ideas can be dropped. Number one, of course, I don't need to sound harsh at all about this as I'm saying this, but it is just an invitation to go beyond these limited concepts that we may have about ourselves. And this is the time to do it. This is the time. If there is concern about the death of the body, then this is the time to discover the deathless.

I keep seeing... I know seeing that God is running this universe, but there is seeing all the examples, especially things from Facebook, you know, the things that... animals suffering and fires and people, animals burning. It's those things come right to my mind, that how is it running perfectly when all these things are happening? To see that there is something... it's that these objections just come. 'But what about that? But what about that?'

But one thing we can remove is that once we see that God is running this universe, we can at least see that we come to a determination about whether it is happening perfectly or imperfectly in a moment. But at least that is apparent, that it is not God and me running this universe, isn't it?

Oh, that's true. Yeah, there are things that I have tried to change the situation. Like I was planning to try to, at my son's request, move back to the United States and finding out because I can get medical... I'm worried if I die my pets will be stranded. I don't have any backup for them. There's nobody that takes little dogs. They're still planning to move back to the United States, which is very difficult to do and arrange, and then finding out back there there's no veterinary care possible. So either way, I can't take... I can't be in control of making things safe for my dogs. I'm not in charge. I'm really not. But to give it up is so...

For a moment, even if we take the distinction between consciousness and yourself to be real, what you're recognizing is that all only happens with God's will and that's apparent. Separate one doesn't have any power over any of this anyway. So if that is the case, then it is not for us to worry about the perfection or the imperfection on it. Because who are we to trust God's ways and God's will, and what capacity do we have to be able to judge that? Just conditioning of what's right and wrong and good and bad, just an idea we have about what should be, what should not be. But that limited set of ideas cannot even run one life, forget about the world and things.

So how can we judge that which is making all this go round? You see, all these billions and billions of organisms and planets and processes, even in one body there's so much happening, you see? So we in our mind have no capability or capacity to judge that intelligence and to be able to determine, 'Oh, you're doing a good job with this' or 'You're doing a bad job with that.' That is impossible for us to do. So it is not for us to put ourselves in that position where we can judge the supreme intelligence. So let go of that and come to the discovery of what you really are. Come to the discovery of what you really are, because only in that will you find the peace that you're looking for. Everything else you will find is very, very ephemeral. You try to grasp it, but it leaves, you see? And things that you grasp that you have, then you don't like them anymore, then you are waiting for them to leave. This is the play of life. But in satsang, we are pointing in a very simple way to your reality. In a very simple way to your reality. Now, let me try it. Let me try right now. Can you stop being at this moment?

No. But one problem I have with that question is that there is something that's trying to stop being, which is like the stuff, like the feeling of suffering, and it's attached to... it feels attached to the feeling of being. It's like I want to stop, I want to stop being. So it just feels so attached, stuck with that.

So for a few moments, if we let go of everything you said after 'but,' just on the first part of it, which is: can you stop being? No. This being, where is it?

I feel that when I'm going to the question, there is a perception of space. I'm seeing a perception of space and I know that, and I feel maybe I'm confused that that's being, or maybe my mind has put a label on being.

This is very good. So I'm happy to take a lot of time on this because this is the critical. This is the critical. So this being, you say that even that is perceived. So if it is a perception, does it have a shape or a color or a size? Is that what you mean?

I mean it... well, it has the quality of space. I mean, it seems perceivable. It seems even visual. It seems like...

What color of it? If it's visual, what is the color?

Well, it's a no-color clearing, I mean, sort of almost like a screen though, like...

What is the dimension of the screen? Is it rectangular or square? I'm encouraging all of you to join in this contemplation because your mind will play the same tricks on you. Well, if it is, we must be able to confirm some quality about it, you see? What is the quality that you can confirm?

I guess I'm confusing it maybe with my visual field, and I don't know if that's...

Who is perceiving the visual thing?

Nobody.

Then what does it have to do with you? How are you getting that information in the first place? If there's nobody who's doing that, how does it come to you?

I don't know.

So this looking can feel a bit strange because as you're looking, you're finding that this perceiver seems like there's nobody there. But that nobody actually is your very being. You are perceiving this, that is undeniable, but you cannot find a shape to this 'you.' And that's why it can feel like, 'No, but I am not there, there is nothing there, there is nobody there.' So if it is being perceived by nobody, then how do you know about it? You are not nobody; you are no-thing. In fact, you are that nothing, you see, because you are not a thing. So to see that I am perceiving or I am aware even of my perception, you see, but this 'I' itself I cannot perceive, and yet it is so clear that it has to be myself, is a beautiful discovery. It's a beautiful discovery and it is so natural, actually. Please go ahead.

I feel that I want to say I am trying to grasp something and so it grasps onto the feeling of suffering, grasps onto the feeling of a central me, like a central... or even sometimes I try to move back, like go back, back, back as teachers will say, and try to be the farthest back, but it just seems that that's still a phenomenal... it's still perceived no matter where I go.

To be myself is a beautiful discovery. It's a beautiful discovery and it is so natural, actually. Please go ahead.

I feel that I want to say I am trying to grasp something, and so it grabs onto the feeling of suffering, grabs onto the feeling of a central 'me'—like a central or even sometimes I try to move back, like go back, back, back as like teachers will say, and try to be the farthest back. But it just seems that that's still a phenomenal; it's still perceived. No matter where I go, something is perceived.

And okay, let's do this. Let's do this together because the mind will present to you things about you which may not necessarily be true. Because I hear about this recursion thing many times, that it's endless, it's like mirrors looking into each other; it doesn't end. So let's confirm together at what point it becomes like those mirrors. So, are you perceiving all the sensations of your body?

I want to say I don't know if I'm perceiving all of them, but I suppose yes, it's whatever is being perceived.

It is you that is perceiving them, yeah?

Yes.

And are you aware of this perception?

Yes.

So you are aware of the perception of this sound, for example, that you're hearing as Ananta's voice?

Yes.

In the same way, if you rub your hands together, you're aware of the perception of touch?

Yes, yes.

Now this one, this 'you' that is aware, what does that look like?

Just as you were saying that, I pictured an image of myself on the Zoom screen.

So yeah, does it look like that?

No, no, I know not really, but it's kind of just that I know it doesn't.

You can, you are having a perception even about that. Some memory or some imagery your imagination may be showing you, but you perceive memory and imagination, isn't it?

Yes, and then there's a perceiving of frustration and not being able to...

It's okay. Frustration doesn't mean anything, don't worry about it. I'm there with you. So let the frustration also be perceived. Don't beat yourself up about anything at all. We're just talking simply. I'm just looking at things in a very simple way. So that which is aware even of the perception of frustration, it is aware of the perception of this voice, it is aware of the perception of sight of your image on Zoom, it is aware of all of this perception, isn't it? Now this 'you' that is aware, what is happening to it? Has it had any trouble?

I feel stuck right at sort of the... I feel like I'm stuck at this.

Can you point out perception? What you are perceiving as stuckness, what is it that you're perceiving?

Having my attention going to this kind of, well I could say kind of dark empty space, but like it's... it feels in front of the perceiving. It's in front of what's the actual perceiving and that's what I identify as what's perceiving. I'm identifying that as me.

Oh, and it's an image. It's still an image of nothing.

Like yeah, so there's a name of dark empty space or it could be an image of bright light. It doesn't matter. The object of perception doesn't matter.

So allow whatever is being perceived to be perceived. Don't let it mean anything. Allow me to make whatever meaning there has to be. It is not your job for the moment. Your job is just to, like a little child, follow the instruction as much as possible. So that which is aware of all of this perception, does it have a problem?

I'm now going to the thoughts.

So just in your looking, just when you're looking...

I guess I feel like I can't see it. I mean, I feel like I can't check with it because it's not observable.

Very good. That's already very good because notice that this which you're calling 'it', you see, but you also said, 'It is I that is aware.' So this 'I' that is aware is beyond all perception. It's a beautiful discovery. I know your mind will fire it, it will resist, you see? All I am saying is that it is so apparent that I am aware. I am aware of all of these perceptions now. So naturally we call it 'I', and yet this 'I' itself is not observable, it's not perceivable.

There's so much trying to put something there to perceive.

Yes, yes. Try with your full might. Try with your full might. Don't fight it. Try to make it put you. We'll see if you can do it.

And then there's just also this feeling like I'm not going to be able to get this and I'm wasting everyone's time and...

Don't worry, don't worry. Whoever had to leave has already left. It's completely fine. So just this feeling that is there, 'I'm not going to get it,' allow this feeling also to play. Allow it to become big, huge, whatever it wants to do, and see if that awareness now can take a shape because of this feeling. There's a lot of free lane for everything to happen. Don't try to control anything at all. If your thoughts want to become louder, if your feelings are pumping loudly, allow all of it to happen. Don't resist anything at all.

Is this fate that now there is awareness of the space that it's all in? But again, that feels perceivable.

Yes, and who's aware of that?

Now thoughts are wanting to say that thoughts are aware. It's wanting to say that the thoughts that are speaking...

So what is your... see, don't be concerned about what the thoughts are trying to say. What are you seeing through your inner insight? Who is aware of all of these perceptions?

I don't know.

Is it somebody sitting next to you who's aware?

No.

It must be you, isn't it?

Yes.

So this 'you', are you in denial of it because it is unperceivable? The images and all the changing things that try to be put off as 'me', the images and yeah...

Is it this voice? It's like knowing that none of it... yeah.

So all of the changing, everything is coming, coming. Is your awareness also getting involved in that change?

It's trying so hard to make an image. Like again, the empty space that's just... I guess I can't seem to get to that. I feel like I only know that it's not like what I'm...

So are you saying that it's not clear to you that you are aware?

I guess I'm changing it, so I'm making it so personal. Like I feel like I can't distinguish it.

Don't do that. Don't worry about it. Are you saying that you are not aware?

No.

It has to be you, whether you like it or not, because you are aware of this perception. You are aware of the changing imagery. You are aware of your mind. You are aware of the memories. You are aware of the resistance. You are aware of all of this. But this 'you', how do you know it is you? You cannot perceive it, isn't it? You do not know it through a perception. Your mind is giving you imagery and saying this dark empty space is awareness, that is what you must be. But that's very well spotted actually, because many get stuck in that idea, but you spotted it instantly and said, 'I cannot be that.' That is your intellect giving way at just the right time. I'm going to continue this inquiry because this is the most important thing. You are aware of everything that you are perceiving, but this 'you' that is aware, you cannot perceive, isn't it? And yet, is it possible to get confused about that? It has to be you, isn't it? So even if you did not have a thought, it has to be me. And even if your thoughts are very confused, can you ever actually claim that it is somebody else's awareness? So this is intuitive insight to recognize this awareness as myself without needing any perception or without needing any confirmation from the mind. Just the simple intuitive recognition is Atma Gyan, self-knowledge or self-recognition. Now, is it dependent on what you may think, what may be the state of your body, what may be happening in your life? Is it dependent on any of this? Now, if you did not have any desire, if you did not want anything out of this discovery, then that would be Mukti, freedom, isn't it? If you did not ask the question, 'What does this mean for me? Am I free now? Am I enlightened?' All of these questions were kept aside, and this is what freedom looks like. Collaborating with your mind, oh really?

Yes, yes. That's the way. That's the way of this Leela.

Yeah, it seems to be. Yes, thank you. It's fine, it's fine. So if you come back to the question that it is you that is aware of all of these perceptions, but this 'you' yourself you cannot perceive, isn't it?

Yes. It's just frustrating that it keeps putting up an image or something. It keeps pointing to something.

Once you see that which doesn't harm you, it cannot be frustrating. Only if you have an idea that it should not be there. But it's very natural for that image to come. Okay? When we are looking at that which is beyond all perception, the mind very naturally will present to you a dark empty space, which you don't have to worry about. In fact, ask: who is aware of the perception of even the dark and empty space? So whatever it may use to distract you, we can use it as fuel for our inquiry. So who is aware? Now let's ask fresh: who is aware of these perceptions?

I am aware. I am aware, but I just... it's still... yeah, I'm still just getting the perceptions. The perceptions present so quickly even before I can answer the question.

Let them present. Whatever. Does it prevent your being aware of them, whatever the perception may be? Does it guarantee your awareness? Does it affect your awareness of that?

No. I guess I also have so much identification with the thoughts, like with thoughts themselves. To know that I'm not the thoughts, that even the one that's directing... I don't know if it's the checker voice that's telling me what to look for and, you know, even that's in my head saying, 'Are you... is it perceivable? Is it whatever?'

For the moment, just allow your thoughts to say whatever they are saying. You just follow my voice with as much innocence as possible. Okay? As much openness as possible. And don't worry about anything else, and don't beat yourself up if you follow the mind. It's fine, don't worry. We'll come back to this. Okay? As much innocence as you can muster. Just like that. Innocence means that you don't know what the mind is going to say; you're only following me innocently like a little child. That's all. Okay? Now use my voice again. You are perceiving this voice now. That which is aware of this perception, does it have a shape or size?

No.

What is its relationship with you? What is its distance from you? That which is aware and you, how far apart are they?

I know my mind is answering before I can. My mind just knows the answer, which is: it is me.

Yeah, but is that also coming to the mind or are you having an intuitive insight about this? Are you seeing it inwardly or is the law also coming from the mind?

It's coming from my mind and I don't want to admit, I don't want to say, but...

So that's okay, don't worry. So who is aware of the perception of this voice? Is it not you?

Yes. I guess like the instant that you say it, it's just that I wait. I wait to hear the mind, like a split second after, the mind presents something.

But yeah, all of this is very good inquiry because these are all the tricks the mind plays. So it's very helpful for all of us. But the question again is very simple. It is seen that I am aware of all of these perceptions, but that 'I' which is aware, I cannot hold any quality of that one. I cannot point to any quality that that one has. And that is why your mind will struggle and it will present pictures of dark empty spaces and things because it can only work with qualities. Yeah? But even that is perceived, isn't it? Now this 'you' that is aware, what is its trouble or suffering?

I'm still feeling that the mind... there's... all the objects are in the way.

Okay. To see that it's not... whatever the perception may be, who are they blocking? Are they blocking awareness?

No. But I think I need to answer quicker before my mind comes.

We'll try that. So that which is aware, where is it located?

I wouldn't want to say first nowhere, but then...

With qualities, yeah, but even that is perceived, isn't it? Now this you that is aware, what is its trouble or suffering?

Yeah, I'm still feeling that the mind... there's all the objects are in the way.

Okay, it's to see that it's not. Whatever the perception may be, who are they blocking? Are they blocking awareness?

No, but I think I need to answer quicker before my mind comes.

We try that. So that which is aware, where is it located?

I wouldn't want to say first nowhere, but then everywhere. Is it black or white or green or yellow? No, no. How far is it? Again, it is me as an answer that comes, but yeah, I'm not... it's not a...

If it was not you that was aware, then how is all this information coming to you?

Yeah, that's like my computer went 'does not compute' and so not quite ready to explode. I wish it would do that, but...

So somewhere, when we are not concerned about what the mind is saying, it is apparent that it is I that is aware, yes? Because if I was to say, 'No, no, actually it is aware, but she is just telling you and you're answering based on what she's saying'...

Yeah, I guess I get confusion with that pointing because then it feels like you're talking about the body. Like, you know, because you know so much spirituality that that which is meant to be met in a much simpler way, I know, then like extrapolated into all kinds of...

Yeah, you see, that's what I went with when I said with the innocence of the child. That's what I meant. Just like, then leave aside everything else about what you know—that you are not the body. In fact, that's what I'm trying to tell you. So if you already knew that you are not the body, then we would not need this conversation anyway. But the mind uses the spirituality very conveniently as an escape from spirituality itself, you see? When I'm saying, 'Oh, okay, now is Jada telling you?' using 'But I'm not the body,' but that's what I'm trying to tell you: you're not the body. Yeah. So how is it worth reaching you then? Is it reaching you through another third party?

No, no.

So you must be aware of it, isn't it?

Yes.

So that you, why do you call it you?

I don't know. On what basis do you see it as you? Do I? What do you see it? Do you see it as you? No, I don't see it. I just... just know it.

Just know it. How can you just know it? You see, how can you just know it? And this knowing, is it something you read or you heard? Just because you heard in satsang, is that knowing?

No, but there is so much confusion. There's just all this...

You see, you say, 'I just know it. It is I.' I mean, it's so absurdly obvious, isn't it? This absurd obviousness is self-knowledge. When we try to make it more tangible conceptually, then it becomes ignorance. It's simpler than you think. The mind tries to tell you it's more difficult than that. It's simpler than any effort.

I guess I'm having a... so much this idea I have of me, which I don't even know what... I don't even know what it is. It's just so, so, so...

You just noticed something which is a pristine discovery. I asked you, 'How do you know that it is you?' You said, 'I just do. I just know it.' Now don't neglect that, because that 'just know it,' the fancy term for that is intuitive insight. It is self-knowledge.

It doesn't seem... it doesn't seem limited, though. I mean, it doesn't seem limited to an upper and I... it doesn't seem... yes, it feels like a location to me. Like the word 'I' feels like so local, and the awareness doesn't feel local.

The idea of a local 'I' is getting demolished in the inquiry because you cannot locate the 'I' that you're seeing, that you know you are. But this knowledge is not a mental knowledge, nor is it perceptual knowledge. It is just like you said, a 'just knowing.' I just know it is I. I am aware of my perception. This 'I,' I cannot perceive. I cannot think about also. It is just so pristine that it is independent of all thought and all perception. So in satsang, what is happening and will continue to happen is you start to value this 'just knowing,' this intuitive insight, much more than your mind's ideas of you. That is the switch over. That is the switch. The mind will try to convince you that this is useless. 'I always know this. What's the big deal in this? It can't be this. How does it help me?' You see? Keep all these objections aside. Keep all these objections aside. Just offer them up to the Master and you just stay with this, because it's a beautiful insight. I am aware of my perception independent of any perception about this 'I,' of any concept about this 'I.' I just know it. But this is a capital 'K' Knowing. It is not the same knowing that we rely on in the past.

Yeah. For the past five years that I've been so much going into the localized 'I' and...

Just refer to yourself for just a minute. Only refer to yourself as that awareness which you just know that you are. Refer to yourself as any other shape or size.

I think something isn't very insecure with it. Something feels without your own judgment about anything. Yeah, and I don't know that now. I feel like it's creating... kind of going to like... like wanting to identify as the space now. Just wanting to identify like, 'Oh, it's the space now.' It's wanting to know.

Although space is nice, don't let it relate now to even space. Allow yourself to be spaceless and timeless.

I have... I just have such a big feeling... feeling... I'm also listening to this thing saying that you're failing, that you've spent so much time on this, on me, on this question, that there's... that I'm failing with it.

I'll spend all this time with everyone who's listening and will listen for many years on YouTube. Don't ever feel like this time is being wasted on this because, okay, by re-pointing directly to your true self-nature, okay, good. There's no reason for any sort of... you never know, there could be someone long after both our bodies have passed who comes across YouTube one day and listens to this inquiry and comes to a discovery about themselves. So don't ever buy into any idea that anything in God's kingdom is ever wasted.

It's so much... yeah, I feel that I shouldn't give voice to the objections, but they stay. Like if I don't voice them, there's still something that believes in them and...

Yeah, if by voicing them you're letting go of them, that is fine too. Yeah.

That I don't know. That which is aware of your perception, how do you know that it is you? I kind of wanted to say because there's nothing else, but I don't know where that comes from.

It's unexplainable because you just do. And we're not used to that kind of knowledge. We become used to only conceptual knowledge or things that we see or hear. This is the most original, most pristine knowledge.

Now I just... I just... I want... I want the struggling to stop like this.

Why are you representing now? Are you representing awareness?

No, I'm representing the struggling.

You represented that long enough. Represent the true you. What you're discovering in your heart, what is the true you saying?

It's not saying anything right now.

Try to make that struggle. Try to make that one struggle, that awareness. Try to make it struggle. Try to shake it up a bit.

I still feel like I'm not... I'm not... I haven't... I feel like I haven't quite... I hope other people are getting this, but I feel like I am...

You are not aware of your perception? Somebody else is?

I don't... I know I'm aware of... I know I'm aware of it.

How do you know?

Because I just... I do know. I know.

That's it. That's it. So then you cannot say, 'I'm not getting this,' because you just know. Self-knowledge is the most primal intelligence that all of us have. We cannot lose it. It's just that we've got convinced by the mind saying it's worthless or 'This is not true, this can't be it.' It's these kind of objections.

It is... it's so much. There's so much. All that that has come up in the last couple months is there's so much 'What's in it for me?' is just the biggest... that's the biggest that that's ever been. This like, 'How is this going to fix anything? How is this...?' It's just so big.

I don't think I can ask you a strong question. What you just reported, do you know this to be true?

Do I know it to be true? Yes.

No, no. We cannot know even one moment. We cannot decipher conceptually, and yet we are able to talk about last months and so many things. But that's just the mind's narrative. You can never be put into any narrative. In fact, the only quote-unquote 'thing' that you can know, truly know, is what you are. Everything else is all rubbish.

Can I actually know what I am, though?

Like what do you think? People do not know it? What you actually are, you cannot forget it. You cannot do it as a learning or as an exercise. You can only recognize that which is already known, always known. Like, you've never confused throughout your life—have you ever been confused about who's been aware of the perceptions you've been having?

No.

No. It's that simple. It's always been you, you see? But you added to that 'you' with notions from the mind and says, 'I am this something.' But actually, without the notion from the mind, this awareness that you are has completely been obvious to you. Self-knowledge is neither remembered nor forgotten. It is only that the false knowledge is thrown out. The one that wants to throw it out is a false one too. The one trying so hard to get rid of it is... it is... the only thing that is needed is you follow the pointing. Who is aware of your perception? And if it is you, how do you confirm that it is you? And you're being introduced in a way to that which you've always known, and yet it can seem so pristine and fresh because it has always been here, this self-knowledge, but it seemed to have got clouded up in our conceptual knowing. That's it.

I guess my mind is taking me back to being even actually being a very small child when I learned the difference between 'I' and 'you' and... and I was... I remember my mother trying to teach me that. Like, I couldn't... I did not know the difference between 'I' and 'why is it I?' and that's... I remember that and it's like maybe I need to go...

We still don't know the difference because there is none. But we picked up concepts along the way which, using the power of our belief... like consciousness has used the power of its own belief to convince itself that it is separate. We actually know... like what defines one perception, what differentiates one perception from another? How does it make two? You don't. There is no such thing, actually. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I feel very bad for taking all this time.

No, that's weird. Oh no, it's really good. Thank you. Thank you. And the invitation in this is that the inquiry, as it is being shared in so many different ways with each of you, everyone who's attending or even watching a video later, must feel in their heart that it is for them. You must not feel that, 'Oh, you see, I'm waiting for my turn to come,' because this is the universal inquiry. It is the same for everyone. Thank you. Thank you. There are two questions left after this. Okay, let's see. Let's go to Jada.

Hello. Thanks for enlightening me.

A little louder, please, my dude.

Can you hear me now? Or I... I will try this. Okay, can you hear now, Father?

Yes, yes. Okay. Can I just... what... before we start speaking, and can those who felt like you had an intuitive insight into your true nature when we are looking together with Lilac, can you just put your hands up? And don't try to humor me or make me feel good. Just keep them up for a moment. So I am happy to hear that we can speak directly like this. We can speak directly.

I keep coming to you and I decided to little bit... I started to feel a little bit shame about this first, I have to say that. It's just so clear always what you have shown. It's just too clear. It is. And how it actually affects my life, which is important for me actually. And it's just so beautiful how you take care of everything. And as I reported also last time, like how you really... it's not... it's not... but just taking our whole life because, yeah, it's just too important to see, you know, like I'm taken care of. And beyond this, not just taking care of, you know, like every holes you are waiting for me and like, you know, every experience or every incident...

What you have shown, it's just too clear. It is, and how it actually affects my life, which is important for me actually. And it's just so beautiful how you take care of everything. And as I reported also last time, like how you really—it's not but just taking our whole life because, yeah, it's just too important to see, you know? Like, I'm taking care of, and beyond this, not just taking care of, you know, like every hole you are waiting for me and like, you know, every experience or every incident what I look and I just found you and you are here for me. And this is just the most important for me, like this feeling of like my Father is with me. And just, I'm incredibly grateful for this greatest year actually. This is the greatest gift for me and this was what I directly asked Guruji for, and he promised me. And it's just, you know, you cannot trust actually—you do—but it's just proven to me again and again and I'm just totally grateful for this. Thank you so, so much.

Because in your true insight about what you are, then you start to see more and more that life is being taken care of. By my Master's grace, He is taking care of everything. And then as we let go of concern about life and what should happen and things, then the insight even becomes clearer. So this is beautiful, you see. So the clearer insight, the more you see that life is completely being taken care of by the supreme divinity. And the more we see that the supreme divinity takes care, the more clarity comes into our own seeing about what we are. So this is beautiful.

Yes, Father, it is. And actually, yesterday what I realized is that I'm just so grateful, Father, because it's like I'm not even allowed to make a mistake anymore. I mean, I do, but even the mistakes are just planned and given by God. And some mistakes I'm not allowed to do, some experiences I'm not allowed to, and I'm just like—it's just beyond gratefulness, you know, to see that like the whole life is just being catched up like this. And it's just like I prostrate before you, you know? I just prostrate before Guruji. And yeah, just immense gratitude for this, man. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. All my love.

Okay, thank you. Let's go to Devi.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, my dear, I can. How about you? You can hear me well?

Yes, yes. I just wanted to share a bit what has been going on and also to ask you something. But yeah, like um, since we spoke last time, slowly, slowly something has been like more alive inside me, like this what you told me that everything is Master's problem. Yeah, it became more a bit more easy. It's not like a big shift, but I feel it's already such a big thing to just let everything not be my problem. And I see like also less guilt about everything that happened also because I shared with you and maybe I can just forget about it. I don't have to always refer to myself as this story. Yeah, it's very cool. And it's still—there's just some fear that maybe it's gonna be hard again. But and sometimes it is hard, but even at that time I say, 'Okay, I don't know what to do, it's just not my problem.' And it's good. And also like before when you spoke to Leela, I couldn't fully grasp, but even this I let it go. Like, I don't know, it's like this for now, but I feel something is—maybe I don't know—I want to see and I do my best, like instead just follow like a child. But more than this, I don't know. That's it.

Also, that's very good. More than enough.

And one thing that it's still a bit like sometimes heavy to deal with, it's like this—this I feel like there is this strong energy is like blocked inside or somehow, I don't know, like solidified inside. And it's also taking a lot of energy from the body. I feel tired actually. I don't know if this is the cause or not, but and sometimes even when I'm inquiring, like also before with Leela, I was looking inside and I feel this—this like very dense energy inside. And sometimes it's releasing a bit also through this looking, like it's a bit lessening. But I just want this also to leave it.

You must include—I don't know—the Master's problem, everything. Yeah, yes, even this. Like even what we think we know about energies or heaviness or lightness, all of this, like don't understand it. And if you want to understand something, know that—understand that it is the Master's problem. Okay? It's good. And everything then that is the energy is it, that is the innocence of it. Like the story of the Zen master, you know? An American professor came to visit a Zen master. I don't know if this happened or just a story, but it's a good one. So, so what happened is that the professor was asking the Zen master a lot of questions and he wanted like an intellectual debate. So then the Zen master said, 'Would you like some tea?' And the professor said, 'Yes.' So the master started pouring the tea and then he kept pouring and didn't stop till the cup—it came out of the cup, it was falling everywhere. And the professor said, 'Stop, stop! What's happening? What's wrong with you? Why are you pouring this tea?' He said, 'Why? What's the problem?' He said, 'Don't you see that the cup is already full? You can't put anything more into that.' You see? So that's what the Zen master said: 'Yes, you must come to me when your cup is empty and then I can fill you.' So when I say don't understand and surrender it to Master, that is how your cup becomes empty. That's how your cup comes in. And actually, the empty cup is the full cup. It is not two processes. Just to come to our conceptual emptiness is to recognize our truth's powerfulness. But anyway, don't understand any of that here. Just keep emptying your cup and that is enough.

Thank you. And thank you for—for telling me to come every time even if you don't pick me. And it's good just to be with my hand the whole satsang. And it's—I don't know—I just felt as soon as I put my hand up, something is working inside. Thank you.

It's very good. It's very good. I remember our deal and it continues till I tell you to stop.

Yes, thank you.

Okay, let's maybe go to the last one for today. Alok.

Good evening. Thank you for giving me a chance. I know I'm coming here after several, several months. That's fine. The journey that I started with to develop an understanding both conceptually, intuitively, you know, I've been on it, but on and off. So there have been times that I've meditated for hours and then there have been times that I've let go for four days. So it's been up and down. But I know for sure that, you know, the non-being, the manifested, the being, and the awareness, all of that is—is—is a much better understanding than it was before. But I have a question today. That while I do realize that the true self is awareness and it is nothing, it can't be perceived, it has no quality, and most of us identify that comes with the mind and the emotions. Yes. But then if there is no duality, right? The knower—it is also my understanding that the ground of being, we—we are all manifestations of the same thing. Behind, behind we are the same, but you know, we are different manifestations in different shapes and forms with different mind and emotions, and that we have a role to play in this universe in this larger scheme of things. Now in order to play that role, let's say, you know, one of the things that has happened to me is from the time that let's say I realized that first, let go, okay, don't try to control everything, right? And that resulted in something like I started eating a lot, I started drinking more, I started using things that I'm not supposed to use because I said, 'Hey look, your body is a perishable commodity, it's going to go somewhere. You—you are English, so just—just enjoy life as much as possible.' So I've put on weight, I've become unhealthy, and I've become unpaid, all at the same time realizing that, you know, whatever is happening is supposed to happen and you know, you should not try to control it. At the same time, you know, although the body is perishable, you still have to take care of it. And you do have—and all of the self-help books say that, you know, if you want to become something, you—you have to visualize that. So let's say you want to become fit, you have to visualize being fit. If you want to become CEO, you have to visualize being CEO. You have to repeat that mantra, so on and so forth. Now for this role that—that this body is playing, or this mind or this emotions played, when—when—when a person indulges in visualization and repetition, so on and so forth, aren't they feeding the false identity and the ego more and therefore getting further and further away? Not—not physically, but let's say adding more layers of ignorance to your true self by—by—by—by—by telling you, 'Go visualize yourself to be free, visualize yourself to be CEO, repeat that I am going to become a CEO, repeat that I am going to become fit.' Because this is what all most of the self-help books say. I'm not sure if you are able to understand the question, but you know what I'm getting it. Yeah. So that—that—so how does—how does one—so the question in our mind is: if I were to let's say try to become fit or try to, you know, have an ambitious plan to grow in my career and I visualize and do that, am I not feeding my false ego at fault or set up identity?

Great, thank you. Thank you for sharing that and I'm very happy to see you here after a few months like you said. But I'm happy, I'm happy to see you. This is a beautiful question to end satsang with today because we spent a lot of time today just inquiring, coming to an intuitive insight about what we really are. But the other—other wing of satsang, the other wing of this bird as Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi called it, one is self-inquiry, the other is surrender. So, so this beloved one has asked a beautiful question. He said if surrender means to let go, then doesn't let go mean that, okay, I can eat anything, I can drink anything, I can allow this body to become unhealthy? Isn't it the let go? Can't I just do whatever I want to do? Or to put another way, the mind wants to do under the garb of this surrender. So because everything that can happen is God's will anyway, no? So why don't I have three extra drinks tonight and whatever I want to do, you see? So that is the—the essence of the first part of the question. And I want to point this out to everybody because this can become an important confusion. So what happens is that in our intellect, you see, our intellect is very limited. So it has these opposites, you see. So when it—so if our condition is that we give away obsessive about holding on to things—'I need to do this, I need to live a healthy life, I need to exercise, I need to work hard to become CEO,' like he said, you see, all of these things—and then some suffering comes because you're taking yourself to be the ego. Then when you hear 'let go,' I can feel—to feel as if it provided some relationship. I don't have to think all that, life is taking care, God is taking care. So let go means, but then I can do whatever I want actually, or the mind or whatever the mind wants. And for many people, freedom means whatever the mind wants I can do, you see? It's not freedom from the mind, it is freedom for the mind, you see? If you ask people in India, many kids you ask them, 'What is freedom for you?'—that is freedom. So, so it can—it can feel like, okay, now because there's God's will is running everything, therefore whatever desire I have I can indulge it because it cannot be outside God's will, you see? So, so it's—it's a very natural question to us. But then my body becomes unhealthy, I can't even meditate, I'm so hungover. So what is—what is this surrender? It doesn't seem like surrender at all. It doesn't seem like I'm getting closer to God. So this is—this is the starting point to give some context. So what is the answer? Let go actually means let go of both positions. Let go actually means that it is not in the boundary of the intellect. It neither means that I must only do according to my mind's plan, nor does it mean that, oh, everything is God's will so I can do—

So, what is the answer? 'Let go' actually means let go of both positions. 'Let go' actually means that it is not in the boundary of the intellect. It neither means that I must only do according to my mind's plan, nor does it mean that, 'Oh, everything is God's will, so I can do anything.' It is not an intellectual position at all, you see? And this is a bit subtle, and the intellect can struggle with this a bit, but all of you have been in satsang long enough to hear this. 'Let go' means allow yourself to be empty of your personal identity moment to moment, and in that emptiness, you will find that the natural intelligence is guiding your actions, you see.

So, it's not prescriptive about what to do or what not to do. It is not even saying drink or don't drink. It is not even saying come to satsang or don't come to satsang—I'm not saying any of that. But the surrender means allow yourself to be free from your mind's limited emotions about what you are. And as you allow yourself to be free from that, you will find that actions are continuing. Sometimes you may even find some intuitive guidance which is guiding you, like, 'Go this way, don't go that way.' But even without that audible guidance, when you are absent of this individual identity, whatever actions are happening, you can consider them to be happening intuitively.

So, did you see the difference? One is an idea of 'let go' which is saying, 'I can do everything I want.' This is also possible, but it's still coming through conceptual representations of what life should be. And even the earlier idea was conceptual representations: 'I want to do this, I have this aspiration, ambition, my life should only go in this way, so I'm going to work towards that.' And then it went to, 'I'm just free, I can do whatever I want, nothing can be outside God's will,' you see? So both are conceptual. Neither are letting go, actually; both are mental.

So, what is the true way to be open and active? Allow these mind's conceptual representations of who you are—which is still taking you to be separate, it's still taking you to be an individual ego and not the truth of what you are—and as you let go of either of these opposites... this is one quick tip: if it has an opposite, forget about it. If it has an opposite, forget about it. Now, that can seem a bit strange initially, but you will start to trust the natural intelligence which is growing all plants, which is flapping the wings of all the birds, which is guiding everything with this beautiful intelligence.

Like, a plant doesn't know how strong a branch is, saying, 'I can only have a fruit which is 200 grams because this branch is only this strong.' And yet the perfect size grows, the perfect branches grow. Every tree is unique, and yet every tree grows with such great intelligence, you see? So, this intelligence is what, in the human condition, we have lost access to because we access the egoistic sort of knowledge. In the letting go, what happens is that it can seem very confusing because it is letting go of both ends, and the intellect, like a pendulum, can only go this way or that way. Neutrality it cannot fathom.

So, even now the mind could be screaming, 'So what am I supposed to do then? Tell me an answer! What is he saying? Should I do or not do?' you see? But I'm not saying either. I'm saying let go of every representation which represents you as a limited entity and allow your intuition to guide you, you see? And that is why you see that all the masters are also different. If there was one template with which to live our life, then all the masters would have led the same life, you see?

Now, in this case, you are well aware, of course, that this one is a householder. He's got job responsibilities, he's got a wife, he's got children. So that life plays out. In Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi's case, he was not a householder; he just lived in Tiruvannamalai as a wandering sadhu and then built an ashram much later, you see? So, you will notice that there's not a templatized way to be free or spiritual, because that doesn't sound like freedom at all.

When we are empty of these conceptual ideas about who we are, we allow this life to take shape, and that is what trust means. So, trust does not define a plan and say, 'Okay, this has to happen, this doesn't have to happen, this is good, this is bad.' It is not a righteous or ethical way of being, neither is it unethical. It is just allowing the intuitive guidance to guide you moment to moment. 'So what should I do today?' I don't know. 'What should the rest of my day look like?' I don't know, really, you see? But I trust the intuitive insight to guide. I trust it tonight. So I just show up back in my house, you see? I don't know what the situation would be, what my daughter will want to do, whether she'll want to go out, or what my wife's day would have been like. I don't know any of that, but I trust that the responses that will come from my heart will be appropriate for the situation.

So, that is what letting go is. Where that takes you, we cannot know. But because now we're also having insight about our reality, which is untouched by whatever may be happening in this play, then there's not so much fear. Why do we want to know any of this? We want to know because we are fearful about what will happen to this one, you see? 'What will happen to this life? Am I making the wrong choice? Will I make a mess of my life? Will I not reach my objectives?' Because we are worried about that. Once we start to rest more and more into our true nature, we will see that in God's intelligence, in the supreme intelligence, everything that is auspicious that needs to happen through this life will continue to happen. But we can't make a roadmap out of that, you see?

This doesn't mean that you can't have a plan that, 'I want to become CEO.' Intuitively, if you're guided in the moment to say, 'Okay, where is your career going? This is what I should be doing,' even that can happen. But you don't get attached to that plan. We don't say, 'Oh, it has to happen like this, otherwise my life is not going well.' So everything can show up in the realm of the activity, but inwardly we remain open and empty and trusting the inward guidance moment to moment.

Thank you, Father. That really helps. I know what you have said is subtle and a bit beyond. I do get the idea that the intuitive direction that one gets when one is closer to emptiness is more like letting go in the sense of being neutral, rather than being in the conceptual mind of, you know, 'I have to follow my mind' or 'I have to completely be on the opposite side.' It will take time for me to be able to practice that and get there with detachment.

Now, if I were to extend that argument and to say: if an Olympic athlete wants to win the gold medal, they can't do it with detachment, right? I mean, 'I want to win the gold.' They have to put everything—their whole false ego identity and the identification of the body—into winning that gold medal, because that's how one can win that gold medal. And the conflict that I have in my mind is if either me or somebody comes to me and says, 'You know, I want to win the Olympic gold medal'—I know I'm taking an extreme example—I just find that an answer like, 'Yeah, go after it, but go after it with detachment'... how will a person achieve something if they go after it with detachment? Because they're not giving their everything because of the detachment.

I'm glad you said that because it sort of extends what we just spoke about. So, saying approach everything with emptiness... but what happens, you see? Because you're saying that the greatest performers then seem to be so much into it. But actually, if you hear the reports of the greatest sportsmen, the greatest scientists, the greatest CEO, greatest whatever, what do they say? Like, sportsmen sometimes say, 'I don't know, I just know that I was not thinking. I was in the zone,' you see? 'Something happened, I was in the zone.'

Like when we used to watch as youngsters, Sachin batting. This one, he just bats in the zone. He always has a few seconds extra, you see? Then some football fans may watch Messi. 'See, how does he know that that one will be there, that defender will be there? He didn't even look up,' you see? So, what is that intelligence, intuitive intelligence, that they're relying on? So in a way, they are more, from my perspective, representatives of this intuitive intelligence than the egoistic one, you see? Because how is it that some sportsmen are special, some scientists are special, you see?

Even Einstein said that, 'I tried and tried and tried, and something just came to me. Something just came to me. This discovery, intuitively it came to me.' And many scientists have made that report. Many sportsmen say, 'You say, how do you have that extra time? How do you play like this?' 'I don't know. I don't think about it. I don't think about it.' So I would say to you that there's also a book about this, and if you send me a message, I will write to you about how a famous tennis coach, who coached some of the best players, actually taught them to go more intuitive rather than mental about their game, allowed them to trust their intuitive... it's a very, very popular thing, and it got converted in the corporate world also, and he does many corporate lectures for CEOs and things also about how to achieve greater things like this. Not that I ever recommend trying to use your intuition for financial benefit or something, but it's fine. But we're just looking at that aspect of it.

So I would really look and say, if you look at the dream of whatever arena, you will find one common report coming from them about this so-called 'zone' or just the mind became quiet, you see? If you listen to Michael Jordan, 'I used to play,' you say, 'I just used to play like in the play. No, I never used to think. Like, all my planning and all would happen earlier, whatever would happen whenever, but when I was on the field, I was just on the field.'

Well, I understand that, and I really do, because I don't know whether you saw Neeraj Chopra's gold medal throw, but he didn't even look where the javelin landed. The moment it left his hand, he raised his hands and he knew that he had done a good throw. Same with Michael Phelps, you know, before he goes to... he has a routine of two, two and a half hours before the swim, and he's just like in that zone. I understand that, I accept that, and I'll imbibe that.

The residual question, you know, the 'leaky roof' as you say—you plug one there, another one opens up—still is: what does detachment mean? The way I have understood the title conceptually is that, yeah, you desire something, you go after something, but you know, if that doesn't happen, it's not like you kill yourself over it or you become disappointed, dejected. I understand that zone. But these athletes, in order to get to that zone, have done it in a very attached manner to that role. I'm sorry, I'm debating and arguing.

No, no, it's a worthy contemplation, and I'm happy to see if there's something like this. But I would feel like even like so many people try—they try to work out, they try to build strength and things like that, you see? My sense about this is that somewhere they must be also following, even during their training regimen, all of that, maybe they are allowing themselves to be open and empty and really doing that. Anyway, I don't want to create this sort of misconception in all of us listening that, 'Okay, now the way to achieve some material greatness is to just be open and empty and think we can allow God to play that out,' you see? But I can tell you that most...

They try to build strength and things like that, you see. My sense about this is that somewhere they must be also following, even during their training regimen, all of that. Maybe they are allowing themselves to be open and empty and really doing that anyway. I don't want to create this sort of misconception in all of us listening that, okay, now the way to achieve some material greatness is to just be open and empty and think we can allow God to play that out, you see. But I can tell you that mostly what everyone wants is to have a life free of suffering, you see. If they achieve the greatest heights and still continue to suffer a lot, it's not a life which... they will regret that life also.

So, whatever else it does or doesn't do, your intuitive guidance at least takes you away from the life of constriction, suffering, and individuality. And that is what everybody is clamoring for. All the other goals, in some way or the other, are provisional, you see, towards achieving that state of peace, towards achieving the state of contentment. So, I would just say that allow God's will to run this life, which it is already doing anyway. But detachment—a good way to speak about detachment—which means if it is according to my mind, then good; but if it is not according to my mind, then even better.

So, if we can carry that, if you want to take an inward position about it before we can reach emptiness, then this approach is fine. It's good if it happens according to what I wanted; it's even better if it happens according to what I didn't want because God wanted that. It's fine. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Good. Let's play a bhajan and then we can close the day. I want to apologize for those of you whose hands are still up, but we'll speak soon. Keep... hey.

Thank you all so much for being here today.