The Holy Spirit Within Our Hearts - 23rd March 2026

You see, now you should say, and you may say, but what you are sharing is also a concept, you see. And you're absolutely right that in terms of what is being shared is a concept, and these concepts are useful in terms of the negation, you see. What is happening in the sharing of these concepts, I'm telling you 'don't go there,' you see. And then some inspiration sometimes may come about what the climate is in the real place. You see, so those words are meant to inspire, but they cannot really show you the reality of what is being pointed to. You see, so the point of these concepts is: don't buy concepts. You see, I'm hoping that you are understanding that you won't be able to get it in your understanding. That much we need to understand first, you see.

So that is the importance. Now is this a dead end then? Because all that we think we know is gone, all our spiritual experiences have also gone. Now what are we left with? We've taken perceptions out. We've taken concepts out. Now what are we left with?

Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing in these two modes of knowledge. You see? And because our conditioning ever since childhood, and maybe for thousands of lifetimes, has been that these are the two modes of knowledge that count, that all my knowledge depends on this. I know I'm a man. I know I'm a good person. I know I was born in a particular city. I know that this body will die. I know all of these things. But the basis of all of this knowledge is either concept or perception. What can we say besides these two?

Can we say direct experience?

Direct experience. And because experience can be a confusing word, we can sometimes say insight. You see, but what is the insight mean? Insight for many in the world can seem like a fancy intellectual concept, fancy bit of intellectualization. It can also pose as if it is inside. And maybe that is what the world word was designed for. But the way we use it in spirituality, that insight we may call intuitive insight. You see, but intuitive insight is what the Atma gives to us by its grace. You see, so the path of spirituality is a path of discipleship of the spirit of the Atma. Okay, this part is all clear. I know we repeating this. Take the mic, please. Mic.

Insight: is it important that we understand, or we can not understand also but still receive this insight?

Yes.

The the reason I'm asking is a lot of times understanding gets processed by the mind and I'm definitely it is not a real thing.

Mhm.

So is it okay that I don't understand but still that I can receive this directly and not worry about understanding, because intuitively you know, it's happening, or rather I would not say happening, but rather intuitively you know, you know something but you don't know what it is.

Is that okay? It's more than okay. In fact, that is the way, because what will happen is that if you conceptualize it too quickly, then what will happen is that it will no longer remain fresh and you will stop visiting that holy place where it came. You will start visiting your head only. So suppose you had an insight, and I always use this because it is one of my favorite insights, which is that the Atma loves to pray within our heart. Now there is no way to come up with this concept. There is no way to perceive this really. It has to be heart insight. You may have some experience of the outpouring when it becomes a prayer of the heart. It becomes a japa in the heart. So really if you have this insight in your heart and you're quick to put it in your head, you see, yes the Atma loves to pray, you see. Now how should we pray? The Atma loves to pray in the heart, you see. Just goes. What was very beautiful in the heart then becomes just some learned knowledge that we might as well have picked up from a book, you see.

So then how is the sharing of Satsang happening? So what happens is that the moment we come to Atma darshan, the Lord has given the entirety of himself to us. In fact he has always given the entirety of himself to us, but we have been holding back. We have been holding back a part of ourselves, and because we are not empty of the 'me' yet, we haven't come to that Atma darshan. But because he gives the entirety of himself to us, he does it in the most intelligent way, where what is allowed to come up to the surface of spoken words of conceptual understanding is also determined by the Atma itself in its grace. You see, because imagine if you were to meet him, the Lord of a trillion universes. You were to meet him and you could immediately perceive and conceive everything about him. You would probably, maybe exaggerating, but you would probably just explode or something. You could not handle it. Our design is not that robust.

So the Atma in its kindness allows a drip feeding of that to happen from the heart, as to it to be spoken, it to be conceptualized, it to be put in words which can be shared. And you will see that that's why if you look at the sages, they seem to have a theme in their lives, like God, the Atma, has designed a theme for them, and they emphasize on that particular aspect. And because God has made it that way so that it doesn't become too much, we don't become completely incoherent. That gives room, when it is only conceptually understood, for debates and debates between religions and between different sects.

You sometimes wonder how it is that all of these people who have come to Atma Gyan seem to contradict each other so much. You see, like in fact not just all these people, but in the life of the sage himself. Like if you read 'Talks with Ramana,' for example, in one page he will say you must do the inquiry whether you like it or not, just keep doing it. All of that. In the next pages he'll say there's no doer of anything at all, who are you talking about doing? You see, so these things are bound to confuse us. But actually they're not meant to be met in that linear intellect that we have. It is just meant to be heard in that moment by his grace as a pointer to us, to follow, but not to make an intellectual understanding out of it. Because in a way it's also sweet that if you look at the lives and the sayings of any sage, they will completely contradict themselves fully and leave you in a neutrality, which is where we want to go anyway. So maybe it's a grand design, but not many of us can actually see through that design.

So the simple answer is yes. We are not to conceptualize very quickly what we are receiving in our heart. That is the mind's trump card to quickly take us away from that holy place. 'Yes, I saw I am that.' You see, now anyone says anything to you, 'I am that,' but it's not coming from that place, it is coming from this. So don't fall into that trap of making concepts out of it. And this is especially relevant for all of us as teachers of God, because we get so used to hearing the same questions over and over. In the sharing of Satsang for more than a decade, I've heard so many of those questions over and over. Then it can become a learned knowledge from which I'm speaking. 'Oh, this is the question. Okay, let me go to that compartment in my head and I can just offer the answer from there.' That is not what Satsang is about.

You don't come to Satsang for bookish knowledge. You come for a live meeting with the Atma who is responding to you, to what you need in the moment. You see, now am I a good instrument of that? No. I'm quite terrible. I don't do such a good job of it as much as I would like to. But the intention at least here is to be as empty of this Ananta as possible, so that the expression can be just in service to what the Atma itself is sharing in the heart. And I at best become a listener, a participant in the Satsang itself.

You see? So, but if I intellectualize all our conversations and I remember them and I rely on that for the answers to come, then I'm just operating from the same place which I'm asking all of us not to operate from. You see, but because of Maya, do I end up doing that? Yes, I end up doing it, a hundred times a day I fall for Maya. So, but is the attempt to not do that, is the attempt to remain in his holy presence so that this body can just be in service to the sharing of his love and light? Yes, that is the intention. And that should not just be the intention of the one who is sitting on this chair but all of us.

Please come. All our lives have to become, have to be dedicated to becoming an instrument of the Atma within. That is the only way we can live in servitude to God. That is the only way we can become das. Remember that there is no bhakti without servitude. In the modern world it can seem like if I just love God enough, and I just, I love God, I love God so much, you know, this kind of thing, that that is needed, but it is not enough. You see, it is also very much required to follow his will moment to moment, to stay in his presence moment to moment. You see, somebody takes a job in your company and you are paying their salary, but that one never comes to meet you, and the end of the month demands the salary and says 'but I did what you wanted me to do.' You will say, 'How will you know? How did you know what I wanted you to do? You never met me.'

You see? So, so what may happen is that we may provisionally, initially, in the beginning, may say yes, everything that happens happens in God's will. So what are you talking about? It has to be, everything happened in his will alone. You see, but what I'm talking about, yes, that is true. I'm not denying that. But this is also true, that we must be in his presence so that we can follow his will. Now in spirituality, especially Satsang like this, we must get used to having two truths which seem like they're opposite but actually they are in alignment. Otherwise we will not make much progress. If you just say no, it has to be either this or that, then we are stuck in Aristotelian type logic, not even Indian logic system. So we cannot fall into that mode. So we must continue to live in his presence. Living in his presence will keep us in touch with his will, and to follow what we learn in his presence is to live in servitude to God, is to live in dharma, is to do the right karma. Whatever label you want to put on it.

That is the only way to do that. Feeling which, if you feel like we are too distant from God to meet his will, then we must rely on scripture. But it's very difficult to rely on scripture, you see, because scripture also, every chapter is different. But if the intention is there, then God will always show us the way. And if the intention is there and you feel wholeheartedly that you are following God truly, not as an excuse, but if the intention truly is to follow Ram Ji's will, and Maya has tricked you, you will not be held accountable for that. He will still make it gracious, full of praise.

So, if our intention is to love him and Maya comes in disguise and fools us, then we are too foolish. God will not, God will make sure that that becomes a pathway, that it becomes holy.

Okay. So we've covered a lot of topics. What not to do: don't take any concept or perception to be the finality of spirituality. The beginning of spiritual life really is to come to Atma darshan. To come to spirit is the beginning of spirituality. You see, otherwise, to take that example we often use, you don't go to a restaurant, look at the menu, read it, say 'how nice,' and leave. Then your meal has not really started. Okay, but many of us in spirituality are doing that. We are collecting menus, we are collecting the medicine on offer, but we're not really taking it.

Okay, can we take a minute or two on that point? A lot of us know a lot of spiritual medicine now, you see. We know we have to live in the moment. We know that God's grace is taking care of everything. We know that there is no division, no duality really. We know all of these things. But what is important is: what is your dosage for today? What is the medicine that you have taken today? How have you applied that in your life today? Have you gone deeper in your inward journey? Have you become kinder, more humble, more compassionate, more loving in your outer journey? How has the medicine that you are holding in your cabinet, how is that going to help you unless you take it?

So, now for most of us, Satsang is not a place where we are collecting more medicine. You see, now the question is: what are we taking today? What is the medicine I'm taking today to stay with God? So then we move away from a conceptual spirituality to a tasted spirituality.

So about the medicine: my daughter has a cold. So then there are various combinations. Should we take Claritin plus Dolo plus something to make sure that she gets a well-rounded set of medicine for her cold, or she could take some Ayurvedic stuff, some homeopathy? All of that, you see. But so all of these types of medicine are available in spirituality also. But the point is to come to the same place. If the cold is not cured then it doesn't matter what brand of medicine you took and how credible the source of the medicine was, you see. So what is the spiritual medicine meant to do?

What is it meant to do in the sense of where is it meant to take us? What is it meant to heal? What would that healing look like? So another mode of spiritual medicine is fasting. But I'm saying, what is the point of the medicine? Where does the medicine take us?

I'm pointing that initially it makes you break your conditioning, or at least it shows you this is your conditioning.

I have to transcribe the question.

I feel that initially it showed me where my conditioning was. I was stuck in a groove and I was just not being able to be open and empty to even hear what you were first saying. And then it made me really become open and empty so I could wait at God's door, as you said, because otherwise I was just still being in a loop of this conditioning.

Yeah. So you've said very well: it's a dual-action medicine. So what is the spiritual process? Empty of 'me,' come to God. Come empty of 'me' to God. There is not enough room for both. If there is 'me,' there is no God. If there is God, there is no 'me.' That is across all religions, all traditions we have been told. So you need a solution which will empty yourself of the 'me.' And that solution should also take you to his door. And we'll talk about his door in a moment.

So how will we fill ourselves up with 'me'? Again, let's do the reverse inversion. So, to be empty of the 'me,' first we need to see how do I fill myself up with 'me.' I say I want to be free from this Ananta who still comes and interferes in the sharing of Satsang, you see. So what, who is this? What is this Ananta or, in your case, your name?

It's thoughts.

In thoughts. So if it was in the arising of the thoughts by themselves, then everybody is stuck, you see. Because manonasha, or the end of thoughts, which is not 'I am,' nowhere, no one to comment on that, is at the end of spirituality, you see. Now what do we need to do to be empty of the me if these thoughts will continue to arise?

Don't buy.

Don't buy them. Yes, that's a, that's a nice way to put them. So there are two mechanisms that work on our thoughts, two primal powers. One is the power of attention and the other is the power of belief or identification. You see, so a thought comes: if no attention went to it, it doesn't exist for us. It never came. You see, but many have said just observe them, let them come and go. So when we observe them, let them come and go, what are we not giving to it?

We are seeing it coming, we are seeing it going. So attention is there on them. You see, we're not identifying, we're not giving them our belief. You see, so first the simple mechanics of how the 'me' is formed, how the 'me' grows, is very important for us to see. So a thought is coming: 'I am a yellow giraffe.' You see, this thought is coming and attention has been given to it. That's why I can decipher its language, you see. I can decipher what the messaging is. But then I have the potential actually to believe any nonsense, which we see a lot of in the world. And all of us feel like others are believing all the nonsense. So I may be the one believing the most nonsense.

So when we see that happening, with attention, we have the power to use the tongs of belief to pull it into our identity. We have the power of belief or personal identification and we make it part of our identity. So if we keep pulling things into the identity, the lane is taken up by the me. Even our spiritual path can be fully me me: I understood this, I see this, I like this, I don't like this, I want this, only this is my path, only this is what, all this me me. Then it becomes God for me instead of me for God, you see.

So what are the two main medicines which are mainly offered in spirituality? Two main medicines offered in spirituality are: to take God's name, or to find out the truth of who we are. To take God's name, what would happen? Ram. We are not getting into any of the thought drama. We're not getting into anything that the thought is offering us. How does our life run? Our life continues to run by his mercy and by his grace and his compassion, like it always has. But now we see that more clearly. We think that using our thoughts and believing in them, we have been running our life. You see, but those who have come to taking God's name realize that life has been run by him. The very animating force which provides us the prana itself is running our life.

So then the burden of how to run my life, what to do about my relationships, my money, my body and my conceptual understanding, these four main topics of a human life are all handled by God himself, because we are left with one job. What is that job? Ram Ram Ram, or Krishna Krishna Krishna, or Dvi Dvi Dvi, whatever aspect of God appeals to us. And someone told us yesterday in a quotation by her yesterday that whatever name of God you take is good enough as the point is to take it. Like, just take the medicine. The most of our lives, like there are some I know who for the last since 2008 are still trying to determine whether they are bhaktas or jnanis. You see, life is passing them by. Take either medicine, whatever takes you to God, take it.

I'm providing the most simplistic explanation. God's name is the most beautiful. The fact that we can take his name is the greatest privilege. The other is to sincerely ask the question 'Who am I?' The mind says 'I must do this' or 'I must not do this.' 'Why was she so rude to me?' All of these things come and the mind offers them as part of our narrative. We say, 'Who is this me? Who is this I?' And we don't allow that narrative to take root, because the narrative is about the false one who doesn't exist. You see.

So then what happens? We've counteracted Maya's attempt. Like Anandima said, Maya is Maya. You see, so we've counteracted Maya's attempt to make this about me. Make this moment about me. Make this moment about me. That is the constant attempt of Maya. Even sitting in Satsang, you may be the judge in your head may be going: 'Yes, yes, I like this. No, no, I don't like yes, this is good. No, no, this is not.' You see so that just to observe that judgment which is so absurd because you come to Satsang. If you already were able to judge what is being shared in Satsang, you don't need to be in Satsang. But something in us, that pride in us, that me in us wants to be able to say yes yes yes, no no no, yes yes yes. But if you already knew then you could stay home. If you are able to judge then you could stay home. I'm not saying that harshly. I'm just pointing out the nature of this Maya and how it functions.

So, so we've counteracted that. Now, the counteracting of that, will that bring us to Atma darshan? I think it brings you to get to an emptiness, so where you become more open to receive, where you are still at the door, still at the door again.

Yes. So now how do we go from head to door, head to heart, which is the door of the Atma? That is the beauty of our soul, that is the beauty of the antahkarana. You see, and that is the beauty of the antahkarana, that I don't know how to put this in words yet, and over the years it will articulate much better, but in a way it is designed to bring us to that which we are focusing on.

You see, so if we say lemon, lemon, lemon a few times, then what will happen? You start getting the visual of the lemon. You may start getting the taste of the lemon. Your mouth may start watering. You may remember childhood memories of how much, if you were living in Delhi or some hot city, how much lemonade you used to have. The emotion that you felt in having that. So all the layers of our antahkarana, our inner instrument, are affected just by repetition of a simple fruit name. You see?

So now what happens when we take the name of God? We say Ram, we say Krishna, we say Radha, we say Jesus, we say Allah, we say all of these things. Now we have been informed by the greatest sages that at our very core, in our spiritual center, in our heart, he stays. It is his abode. Not just that he stays, but he delights to stay. And we've also been told he's waiting to meet us there.

So we have been informed about this, but it is not in the antahkarana's ability to get us a direct one-on-one meeting with him. You see, but it is in our antahkarana's ability to bring us to the door. This is a very, very important point, you see. So whether I say, 'Who am I? I want to know the truth of who I am,' it is not the antahkarana's ability to force the insight that I am Brahman itself. And when I remember Ram, when will I get your darshan, Ram, the longing for Ram. It is not in the antahkarana's ability to introduce us to Ram. But the antahkarana, our inner instrument, can bring us to his door.

That is the place of silence and stillness that the sages have talked about. That is true silence and stillness. It is not the absence of outer words. You see, it is that holy inside place where that beautiful rendezvous can happen, where that beautiful rendezvous with God can happen, in the form of the Atma within. So when we say Ram, or when we ask 'Who am I?', we find that by his grace our faculties are pulled inwards. They become inward-facing, antarmukhi, and sometimes by God's grace they are pulled into that holy stillness, that holy silence, where we abide.

This is our end of the bargain. Whatever the spiritual tool may have been, that tool, just like the cold medicine, has to bring us to this place. Whatever the spiritual tool may have been, it may be hatha yoga, it doesn't matter what you're using, you see. But the point, it may be just devotional singing, listening to bhajan, it may be doing japa, whatever the thing is, it has to bring you to this place. You see, and we have to follow the master's instructions in terms of how much repetition is needed, how to structure our lives so that we can come to the purpose of life by coming to this place.

The rest of it is a purely graceful process. What I mean by that is that it's purely his grace. When Atma darshan will happen, when the insight 'I am that' will become clear, when Ram Ji will be met, all of that is his grace. So we are setting the table for the guest to come to dinner. We are collecting the berries, tasting them, making sure that they are sweet, putting the flowers on the path, so that the holy meeting may happen.

Now no other method, tool, nothing is going to work. We have come to the end of our capacity, whatever we take our capacity to be. No bribery will work here. You could be the richest one. You may offer all your money. It makes no difference. You see, you may be the king of the world and you may try to compel him to come. Makes no difference. This is universally the same for everyone. It doesn't matter who we are in the realm of Maya.

The only bribe that may work is love. Just remember him. Just the more love you bring into your heart, you make yourself more irresistible. Doesn't take away the fact that it is his grace. But if you offer your heart on a plate to him, I feel we become irresistible to him. You see, so but that is no guarantee about time, and and if we do it with intention that I will spiritually progress if I do that, all that is not love. I just finished saying this part.

I hope you are seeing that it is not so much about the route that we have taken in spirituality, the method that we have followed. In spirituality it's more about our integrity, sincerity, faithfulness, humility. Humility is the core of it. You see, all the other things which are needed as ingredients for us to stay abiding over there in the holy stillness are dependent on humility. And the more you contemplate this, the more you will see how it is true. It may seem like completely unrelated. Pride is how I'm operating with people. We are talking about sitting in the holy place. What does it have to do? You will notice that if you are proud, you will not be able to sit still in the holy place for a moment, because the mind knows exactly what buttons to press. Anger, resentment, grievances, all of these things will be so overwhelming to us, you see, that we will keep falling for the mind. We may know all of this knowledge conceptually but we will not be able to apply it.

So humility is something that helps us to let go of all this pride of knowledge, pride of being somebody. All that is Maya's trap to keep pulling us back, gravitating us back into this me. And what happens is that that elevated me is a replacement for God in its ways, in Maya's ways. 'Let me make you the king of the universe like Ravana. Then you don't have to bow bow down to any Ram.' You see, that is the whole construct. But Ravana is both a historic character and a metaphor. You see, it is a metaphor for our ego, for our pride.

So the pathway to spirituality is to get rid of the Ravana inside us. You cannot hold on, you cannot secretly carry that Ravana in your backpack because there's a metal detector at that gate. Okay? You can't say 'let me fool God. Let me get the darshan, let me find Ram, let me hold him. Then what does he, what does he need to know?' You see, that doesn't end well, like we've seen in all our stories of characters like that.

So this is the lay of the land, the spiritual project more or less. Virtues of course we can talk about: so many more, gratitude, just bringing light to everyone around us. All of those things we can talk about more and more. But remember that when we read the stories of the sages we may feel like we need to transcend a lot of oceans and do a lot of things to become saints or become saintly. But no, it is to use what has been given to us in our lives. Am I using everything that has been given to me in my life to transcend Maya and to live in a godly way? And that is enough for us to lead a saintly life. The point is to become saints, not outer saints. You don't have to have 'saint' attached to your name. But a saint is one who lives with God. A saint is one who lives with God. If we learn to live with God now, then we will learn to live with God forever.

Father, when you said that you have to come to the space, it doesn't matter which route you take, you come to the space and wait right, I feel from my heart that we should not even expect the guest to come. You know, but you do your waiting. Yes. Because somehow I feel this expectation can take us really back into the queue of the path, or undo a lot of efforts we have put to come to this room. And also the attachment to the doing that I'm setting the table and I'm waiting for God to come. I'm doing right now. Even I feel that attachment, also to the doing itself is somewhere we have to let go. In my limited experience of of me setting up the table, I have come to a place where the frustration that I am setting up the table every day and setting up a table at some point of a time has become so monotonous. Without any love. You know, you're I'm doing it. So far I was with you completely. Like no, I'm just doing it for the sake of doing it, you know, without any love.

Okay, let's pause at that point. A few very, very, very beautiful points you made, and you're pointing to the highest form of bhakti. Now it's very beautiful and we'll talk more about that bhav in a moment. But I feel like God is so merciful that if we are in that state where we are just truly feeling this vyakula, this restlessness, like a fish out of water to meet him. And if the expression is that beautiful bhajan dish gami, it can sound like there's too much expectation or waiting in that, but it's actually a beautiful. So now we're coming to these very subtle realms: how do I express my viraha, my longing, my waiting, while keeping in mind that if it becomes I am waiting, you see, then that is not love, that is exactly what you were talking about. So it becomes subtler and subtler in these, you see.

But my humble recommendation is that if we have come to that point where we are just waiting with love but not with entitlement, you see, waiting with love but not with entitlement. Otherwise Mashabri would have given up in 6 days. No, forget 60 years, if she was waiting with entitlement. Because she was already a jivan mukta, mahashab already a jivan mukta. She would have said, 'What am I waiting for? I know I am that. Easy, forget it. Is this so?' But there is that heart's longing, just longing. Just like, what word to use? Maybe waiting is not the good word, but something wants that fulfillment, that completion, that contentment. The English language or any language is not good enough to share what that is. What can sound like a entitled waiting, it's not an entitled waiting. It is, it is the heart's deepest longing, it's the heart's deepest design.

It's like the cleanup has happened, you see, and now it's just ready. 'I belong to you now, Lord. I just belong to you now, Lord.' So this is very beautiful also. But what you pointed to, I want to say a few words about, is that the higher sages have said, like Shabri actually, her intention was not 'I just want your darshan.' 'I want, I want' was not her intention. Her intention was like: 'I am here to serve you and I want to be able to serve you even in the slightest way. So on your difficult pathway if I can offer you a moment of respite, if I can give you a moment of joy.' And this bhav: Hanuman said, what an absurd feeling to have and yet the most beautiful, like 'I will provide rest to him.' You see, so same Therese of Lisieux, she said, Jesus is to take the initiative. Everybody is saying 'do this for me, do this for me, do this for me.' So when you come in my boat I just want you to sleep so that you can get some rest. It can sound absurd to our mind and intellect, but that bhav of wanting to even serve.

Like Shri Radha said: 'If my suffering gives you even a millisecond of joy, I'm happy to suffer my entire life. I don't want anything. I don't want you to come and give me darshan. I don't want anything for myself. Just what, what here, what in my soul can give you some peace, some joy?' It's an absurd way to love. So what you pointed to is that highest thing. But I feel like for me, foolish ones like myself, even if we are waiting but waiting in love and not entitlement, he is merciful enough. Because can I really make the prayer that if my suffering gives you a moment of joy, give me lifetimes of suffering? I may make it on a stage. I may make it on a pedestal. It may sound very impressive to thousands of people, but authentically can I make that prayer, the audience of one who is listening to everything that is being shared? Maybe, maybe not. Most likely not. But it is very inspiring to hear about Shabri, Therese of Lisieux, and Shri Radha. That bhav is very, very inspiring. Yes. One minute.

Then the second aspect which was raised: it can become sort of like a rigmarole. That's why that question is worth asking: if Shabri waited sixty years, and suppose she's not doing it in that bhav, she's actually waiting and waiting, and she waited sixty years but Ram Ji did not come, did she have a wasted life?

No. I don't think she would have felt that she had a wasted life, because that door, we are using the term 'door' as if it is a physical door, but that door is always open from his side. It can just seem like it's closed from our side because egoic tendencies may still be at play.

But just to wait in that holy place: you can buy the best goodies in the world, the most tasty food and listening to the most beautiful music and surround yourself with the best things. But that one moment of waiting at that door is much more beautiful than a lifetime of getting the world. You see, that's why all the sages come into this dispassion, this detachment from things of the world. Because what can this world give them compared to even God's waiting room? You see, that holiness of that place when you touch holiness, when you touch holiness. Like, 'holy' is one word that we don't really understand, which is that's why it's a good word. We don't wholly understand it at least. So that's why it's very useful. But when you touch it you know it, you see. When you touch it you know it somewhere that 'I've touched that holiness.' So that waiting at the door, maybe I have to find a better term for it.

Father, you spoke about love and gratitude in that space. I feel enormous gratitude just to be in that, in that. I mean God has given me such a great opportunity. I mean for a better word we'll use waiting just to be in waiting right it's a great opportunity. There are so many people on this earth who still have not met their guru, who have not even understood that you can be with God always, and we are here so lucky to to come to this space, and a guru guiding us. I mean, so much of gratitude is there for this thing itself. I don't know whether the door will open or will the darshan happen, but honestly speaking, this itself is, is the greatest thing. I think I want to surrender to this space, that is it, no more, and that there is no attachment to the waiting or hoping to get something. Just be, and that is my sincere prayer, Father. That is all I have.

Actually, we are stripped naked by the time we get to the waiting anyway, because none of our faculties, none of our levers that we use in the world, none of these things have any meaning over there anyway. That itself is a great relief for us, because we are tired of all of this, just tired somewhere. So just to be there like an infant baby at the mother's breast is, one last thing I'll finish.

One last thing, Father. Some of my heart says that this yama nyama, yama nyama, right, I somehow feel that, like you said, love, gratitude, and there could be some more, like detachment. Maybe consciously bring this in every breath, like make it a constant companion, to have this awareness to know about all of this. And while we are waiting, every action should be with an awareness of of these things, which will make this waiting more joyful. You know, you will be in a blissful state even though there is no expectation, but yet you're already in a space of that sweetness. But I somehow feel the mind comes there also, you know. It comes and tells me a story: 'Oh, at least after coming to Satsang for so long I have understood that there's not a pain, this is a lot of love, there's so much joy in this waiting.' But sometimes the mind comes. But I've started consciously bringing the awareness to see the moment with love, gratitude, and maybe we could add some more words like attachment, detachment, something else. I feel I have to bring the light, or my light, or my awareness, to this moment with this lens, so that I can just surrender and just be at the feet in that space without any expectation. Just be, and that is my sincere prayer, Father. That is all I have.

So this aspect of revelation. The spiritual journey being a journey of grace, meaning that the Atma and its love reveals itself to us. Reveals its Saguna Brahman nature to us. Gives us the eyes to see the revelation of its Nirguna Brahman nature, without any distinction. Whether we call it the completeness of love or we call it the complete absence of distinction, that is the revelation that is made. Now there's a mistaken idea that that moment or moments of revelation... Please take your time, as much as you like. Of course please. I'm so happy she was here this long. Very keen to come. Blessings.

So often our mind makes a confusion between completeness and finality. So what we see is a completeness. Using the term loosely: we see with the eyes of the heart. We see our completeness. We say 'I am that.' Now that, the mind often uses as a sign of finality. That this now must be the complete end of delusion, the complete end of 'me.' But it doesn't play out like that. It wipes clean a lot of the conditioning. It wipes clean maybe just lifetimes of vasanas, but the potential to build 'me' back still remains. Therefore, like the sages have told us, the tan matra, the very elemental quality of the ego, still remains as long as there's a human condition.

So now after the insight, deep inside, is a moment or is a lifetime of great vigilance. It's a lifetime of great vigilance. It's not a scary vigilance, not like 'am I getting it,' not like that. Just a calm vigilance, you see. Because it's very easy to get trapped in the pedestal, in what we think we know now. Very, very easy to get trapped in those things, and then that is Maya's ultimate and final trump card, isn't it? You see, because even those who have had a darshan of God, who have had a darshan of Nirguna Brahman, can fall back into pride, can fall back into specialness, can fall back into the delusion that 'I am this body and the body is special because it is now on a pedestal.' So getting worshipped by brothers and sisters around us can become a replacement for our worship of God in our heart.

Now the mind can say: 'But now you are that, I am that, this body-mind is that.' You see. So because it is so special because it has come to I am that, but the I am that was seen because it was seen that I am not this. You see, but now the specialness gravitates back to this one. What a master stroke by Maya. And so therefore throughout our history, all the greatest sages have been shown to keep falling back into Maya, either through temptation in lust or temptation in power, temptation of the pedestal. All of these, all the greatest sages have been gone through, shown to go through this process of pride again and again. It is both again both historical and a cautionary tale for us. It's a caution I think.

Father, everyone is the same when it's the guided guide to Atma darshan. All the sages and I mean different ways but it is the truth like we all know this and this is what happens after like the expressions of someone who has known themselves or the truth is very varied. And I was thinking about it the other day that it can be like a finality. It can be, it can becoming a saint. It can be also people leading very normal lives and also get going getting married, getting everything. I mean, chopping wood, fetching water. Yeah, sorry, one second. Before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water. After enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water, or not. It could be. So it seems like that, that like, isn't that, I mean, it seems like there is no sort of formula or correlation between life after or what it should be or could be. And and sometimes I think that those of us who judge those in those positions, I don't want to call, but in those, in those places, like they should not be doing this and you know, how can they be, because there's a supposed to be a saint, and then they are losing their temper, or they're they're afraid, or or or having an, you know, anxiety. So it it just seems like is it, is it, is it even necessary to feel that this spiritual encounter must have this tremendous fallout into our so-called human being personality? Isn't it almost a bit, I don't know, these are just my thoughts, Father.

Thank you, thank you for asking. There's so many things to say, so two main points. Most likely I'll forget the second one by the time we come to it. I've forgotten the first one also. If you look at it as a judgment of another, which is 'look at that one, he has gotten into Maya, or she has gotten into Maya,' you see, then it is just the same tendency in us which is acting out. But if we look at everything that life is showing us with humility and to see 'what can I learn from this,' then that is helpful, you see. So if you learn from the examples of others, we may not fall into the same things. We may fall into newer traps more easily. So it's good to learn from examples, but without any personal judgment, without any personal need to attack anyone. It's good to learn.

Secondly, it is very important for us to constantly be in this 'attack the sin but love the sinner' mode. You see, how do we do that? It can seem too far-fetched in today's world. You see, where somebody is rude to us we immediately make it about the person: 'this person is like this, they are good or they are bad.' You see, if I say one angry thing to someone, 'Ananta is an angry person.' You see, because that is what is visible to us in terms of what we are seeing through our perception. You see, we are seeing this body and he's expressing himself in this way. So it'll be assigned to this one. You see, but what is really happening, what is really happening, is that in everyone there is this Mahabharata between the dark side and the light side, within the Atma and Maya, you see. So are we able to receive our brothers and sisters in that way: here is my sister, here is my brother. Now they are caught up in something which is holding them back, holding them back from being in God's light. You see, and what is the way in which I can attack that darkness in them without attacking them.

So sharing yesterday: it is not attack the sin and not the sinner, it is actually attack the sin and love the sinner. You see, attack the sin and love the sinner. Because when we what we take the sinner to be. So what happens when you love the sinner? We, our judgment turns into empathy. You see, ah you, your buttons get pushed when this particular thing happens. Same thing happens with me on this thing. You see, it's not so much that we are rushing to put ourselves on a pedestal and say 'you have this, therefore I am better than you.' That is what we are trying to do with our judgment. We are not actually, we don't want to judge anybody. We just want to keep feeling better about ourselves. So our judgment about others just helps us to feel better about ourselves constantly. 'Oh, this one is a fool. This one is a liar. This one is a bad person. This one gets angry.' All of that just helps us feel like 'I don't have that, so I'm better.' Otherwise we won't waste time judging people if we did not feel better about it.

So but what happens when we remember that our job is to love? Remember that our job is to love: then we have to go to our heart, because love will not come from our head. We have to come from our heart. And in our heart, at least in my case, what happens is most times I see that that affliction which a brother or sister has, I also have. I'm afflicted with the same darkness. And I can see it in that brother more clearly. And I know that in my pride I'm probably not able to see it in myself as clearly. So this gives us collectively an opportunity to heal ourselves, to look at this together. But not from a place of judger and judged, but from a place of just working in God's light, working on God's project, working in love with each other, without getting into pride, without getting into all of this grievances, resentment, all of these things which are just Maya's trick to block us from God's light.

So these conversations can be very revealing if they happen in love. They can be very revealing if they happen in openness. We might end up finding more about ourselves. Although the project was to attack the sins. So when I say 'attack the sin,' you have to find a better, love the hell out of them. Is that a better way of putting it? You see, love the hell out of them. It's very difficult. If somebody is attacking you constantly, it's very difficult to love the hell out of them because hell is calling you also. Okay, I'm not talking about hell. I'm just using it metaphorically, at the moment. So just love all this darkness out of them. You see, maybe I'll change the word uh in my expression. Change the word attack, because that attack, let me attack the sin in my love, love the sin out of them, love the darkness out of them. So that is our job. But it's extremely difficult when we feel like we are on the receiving end of attack. We are on the receiving end of attack. Then our pride starts bubbling up somewhere. Our individuality starts bubbling up somewhere. Our ideas of unfairness and being badly treated start bubbling up somewhere. So it's very difficult in the face of attack to want to love the darkness out of our brother or sister. You see, but that must be our intention. That must be where we want to work and where we want to grow. You see, because then our whole approach becomes empathetic and not attacking. Our whole approach becomes in attempting to understand instead of wanting to win.

This can happen more and more only if you're spending a lot of time with the Atma, because the Atma's virtues are contagious. The Atma's love is contagious. The Atma's way of being is contagious. The Atma's love for God is contagious.

On the same topic, Father, can I say that everything I see in another, I see it because I have it in me? That makes it easier.

We have some, at least, we have some germ of that at least.

But I can feel better thinking that someone else has anger ten out of ten, but I have two out of ten. Even that I can use to make myself feel better.

That is why I said that in my pride I'm probably not able to see the extent of the things that I have, you see. So when I work together with a brother or sister on it, then we are looking at the way it operates, almost the mechanics of that tendency, so that we can spot that in ourselves also. So when we do it in the way of empathy, when we do it in the way of love and not judgment, you see, it's very, very, very important for us to recognize that we don't have the time to judge. Like none of us would bother judging anyone. We are not that concerned unless it made us feel more elevated. You see, if we can just transcend this trick of the mind, that my judgment of another is just a quick way of make making my ego feel better. You see, that's a huge leap. I think Father Richard Lord told us this beautiful thing.

Yesterday I was sharing something and I felt that it's the same: any time I point a finger I see it in me. Any vasana, any conditioning, I see the same in myself. So how to be of service to each other: it's only when we first come into this inward posture of loving another that our eyes start to open about ourselves. We have some objectivity about ourselves. We have some objectivity about our brothers and sisters when we are not in that elevated mode. If our way of life becomes to live in God's presence more and more, and when these things come in our lives, if we take refuge in his holy name, if we take refuge in the inquiry, if we return quickly to his presence, then he always shows us the right way. But the mistake we do sometimes is we go to the presence and then the mind says 'Now, okay, that's done. Let me now pick up the arms.' It's not like that. The point is to go to the presence and remain there. Allow him to move through us, him to work through us.

Then our lives will become holy. Our lives will become beautiful, full of love for God. And from there we are able to really attack the sin, attack the darkness. If ourselves we are not in the right posture, then it becomes personal very quickly.

Father, when I see it in me, then that whole posture falls off. The attacking posture falls off. And at best a collaborative empathetic posture comes out. You see, saying that, but there are so many many tricks in the way, you know. You see, so what happens is suppose I say, 'Oh but Father's an angry person or unkind person,' so because what is in front of us in perception is a bundle of flesh and that seems to be the one that we can direct our judgment at, you see. So but once we start to see that actually this is a game between Maya and God, just a game between Maya and God, then you see it is not about this bundle of flesh. It is about maybe there's some affliction, maybe there's some darkness taking hold in this particular thing. I also have dealt with that particular darkness. So how can we engage in such a way that it heals us, that it heals us?

These conversations are very beautiful, very constructive, very helpful. Now what happens is that when we approach a brother or sister and we say 'Okay, can we talk about this particular thing?', they also have to be strong and not make it like 'this one will want to attack me only.' So that one also does is not open to receiving that help, because it feels like this one is only going to judge, this one is only going to attack. So we have to work as a sangha of God, the whole world, but also especially our own sangha. We have to work where we all come into such a space between ourselves that we are able to have these beautiful, constructive conversations, constructive sharing among each other, with both sides of the conversation not making it personal.

Can you spot how easy it is to make it personal? If you were rude to me right now, I would say 'this person is like this,' I would not say 'this is Maya working.' That is what we have to work on, you see. Because what has been offered to us in childhood is: quickly conclude, make a judgment about that person, feel better about yourself, protect your ego, avoid that, avoid any other wanting to heal or squeezing the hell out of another with love.

So then that sounds like a saintly life to me. The saints, whenever they would meet each other, you see, there was that. His father tried to kill him so many times, you see, but he kept praying for his tormentor. What is that? What is that? To pray for your tormentor who is not just trying to trouble you, is trying to kill you over and over. Your own father, you see. So when we hear the history like that, I don't want to call it a story. When we hear the history like that then it seems like that is too far out. But if we learn to follow this in the small challenges which God gives us on a daily basis, then we learn to build our strength, our capacity for that kind of forgiveness, for that kind of love.

But if we come into soldier mode very fast even the smallest challenges, like I often talk about auto-rickshaw drivers wanting ten rupees more, fifty rupees more, then how will we ever truly be able to pray for our tormentor? So God knows our curriculum very well. Let's use every opportunity we get on a daily basis to love, to pray, to bless, to not hold personal grievances, personal resentment. That much project is enough for saintliness in today's world.

Like when you say that anger means pride and all that: is it if you're given a responsibility, is it possible to fulfill it without knowing anything?

Yes. If you're talking about knowledge that is needed in that situation, coming from the heart, it's always available to us from the heart. When I say 'I know,' it is about conceptual knowing. Often we've said: do I need to know this is a tumbler to drink from it? I don't need to know the label of it to drink from it. I don't need to feel special that I know how to drink from this. Whatever is needed for our existence, just like a child is born and knows how to drink the mother's milk without having to know it, without thinking 'I know, I'm just ten minutes old and I know how to drink milk.' It doesn't need to know that, and yet it knows.

Can I elaborate more? Like some of the things I have to do: like tomorrow I get the discharge thing done, whose name to put there, I need to get that done, then some bed I have to arrange, like not just me but those things are kind of to do, and some nurse, then all of this. How, like practically, like I've heard you that it's possible, but how do I make that possible?

Since you have so much on your plate, I don't want to give you very complicated things. But for tomorrow, just try to live moment to moment. Do you have enough to take care of this moment? Then all the deeply philosophical questions about that you can tackle once you're done with the medical emergencies and things like that. Are you dwelling on 'oh, now what will I need to do after two hours, the nurse will ask me for this, and this will ask me for that'? What you need is just to allow it moment to moment, to see how God will provide the solutions to everything. If I just focus on what I need to do in the moment.

And in that moment I know nothing.

It'll come to you in your heart what, what has to be done.

Heart, I don't know. That hasn't happened. Like, tell me what to try.

Like in this moment, the words, who's putting in your mouth? Not the heart. Did you plan everything you're going to say? Like even right now when you say not the heart, I feel your hand is like that. You had planned to put your hand like that. No. This no, that came. You had planned to say no? No. For for for this medical situation, all of that allow this to unfold this way.

But this isn't any different from how I usually go about.

Yeah. So I'm saying that for dealing with the world for tomorrow because you're saying.

Okay. Do this. Okay. Yeah. I'm not sure what you said specifically to do. I'm just...

Just like this. How you asking this question?

Was I not doing that? I thought I was doing that.

I'm not saying that.

But anger was like so, so, so.

Yeah. So, but for anger, you need to go to different places. For anger, you need to allow irritation to build up first. The messaging to get stronger and stronger: 'How was this person like this, and why are they so like this?' All of that messaging has to build up over a period of time, instead of living in the present.

Even what you said about being compassionate, loving the hell out of people, I notice many times I revert back to the realm of concepts and perceptions when I'm dealing with it. On one hand you say we have to leave it like that example you took of the F1 race: you crash, you just come out. But again, it seems like another part of the guidance is the ethics, like always drive on the left side, and then you're back on the racetrack again.

For now, and we'll develop it more and more, but for now, for the next few days: whatever keeps you most in God's presence, use that. If you try to apply every piece of guidance that you've been given even in one Satsang, it's going to be too tough. What is that pointer which helps you stay in God's presence the most?

God's presence is too distant. I don't know that.

In your heart, empty of mind, open and empty. Whatever way you want to call it.

Something I'll try, some practice I'll try. That's what you mean. What is it that you found has been the most beneficial for your irritation, for your anger?

Focus time, but I'm not getting that at all.

Okay. So, next second.

Nothing. I'm just failing horribly. I'm going insane. Like, you know, I would love it if I could just, like the way you say, leave thoughts perceptions and just say to hell with all this, I'm just going to sit in my room, I'll keep my sanity, I'll do my 4 hours and then let's see whatever has to happen will happen. But but sometimes life doesn't make that space. Life doesn't, or I don't, I, I don't give that space. Like sometimes you say that you do stress on that, you know, that the we always have that choice, and I recognize that I do have that choice if I just allow whatever has to happen to happen. Is that there is some cruelty, lack of compassion, all of that, and I recognize I, I'm back on the racetrack if I want to be compassionate, if I have to be loving.

Why did you move away from taking God's name constantly?

I'm forgetting so much and I'm, this is a diagnosis that I'm not sure about, but it's possible because I get no focus time. It's completely like I forget, forget for hours and I don't know, I don't even chant. I think it's very rare I chant these days. I don't remember at all. I'm engaging with situations and I've forgotten the chant and then I forgotten, I don't even realize I've forgotten it. Almost the entire day is gone.

You have that, is a counter in your?

Yes. It still doesn't help.

What is the count?

No, that is just like this 2511, but it's just it's not it's not anything like I mean. It's not for today. It's not. It's not 2511 for today. No, it's just random. I just, for the pressing part, that reminds me. The number is not accurate. But was it reset at zero in the morning? No, I don't know why I keep resetting sometimes. Sometimes I don't even bother with the number, since it's continuous, that I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why I stopped keeping track. One thing is sometimes I chant seven at a time and then count that as one. Sometimes it's slower.

It's completely fine. All these things are fine. And your idea is also right, that the idea is not the count so much. Yeah. You see, but without the count, if you're not doing it at all, then that's also not the idea. The idea is not the count so much in the sense that there comes a point where you may feel like you're just so constantly in it that you don't need to keep count.

My thing is I don't know what to make of the count. If I put in that effort, like if I count seven chants as one, and if I chant once every ten seconds and I count that also as one, at the end of the day I look at the count and what do I make, what sense do I make?

In that moment there was something on your hand which reminded you to say God. In that sense I'm using it: I'm disregarding the count. That's all I'm using it for. But if by disregarding the count you're not praying, then that is not to disregard the count.

No, it's, I don't think it's because of the count. The intention to love God is more important than the count. But the count is not useless if we are trying to discipline ourselves to take God's name. I have this idea that it has nothing to do with the count, that's not the reason why I'm not chanting. I think it's because I'm not getting focus time. But I don't know, I might be wrong.

What is the maximum, when you were counting, what is the maximum you got to?

At that time I used to do it all day and sometimes it would come up to 3,000, like the full day.

Very good. So can you do a thousand? Not even all day, just whatever single name that you're chanting. Remember, many times the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Okay, thank you. I notice some relief on some faces. It's like: finally. I love you all. Ram Ram. Goodbye.