That Which Is Obvious to You and Yet Never Perceivable, Is You – 11th February 2022

Yeah, it is. This year's 10 years, I think like April or something like that. Yes, I can't believe that. Oh gosh, your bottom half of your beard's definitely looking 10 years older. Yes. Hey, my Father, I just wanted to say hi. I've missed you. I've been sending messages and I was about to send one saying, "All right, that's going the right way for a smack bottom line." You've been active on Facebook; I've not been so responsive on Facebook.

That's okay.

No, I just... I was just gonna have a joke with you. I thought that might get your attention. I love you, Father. The kids are good. Yeah, Milo is going to school for kids with autism, so he's getting a lot of good support there. So that's really good. He had his first week this week. And Ruby's driving, by the way.

What? She's driving?

She's getting the license. She's got, I think now, 11 hours left before she can go for a license. And then yeah, she's going to be driving.

Oh my God. The conversation was Ruby, and this was when they started sharing satsang and we were having one of these impromptu sessions on YouTube or Ustream or something. And she didn't know that I was Ananta, so she was just talking. And then Shivani had gone somewhere and it was just talking to me and I was saying, "And the rest..."

Actually, yeah, I think that's stuck, didn't it? Father's like, "Oh yeah, yeah, everything else I feel good." Didn't forget that, man. That was when... because you had your name up as Tapan Garg, so she didn't know it was you. And yeah, now she's driving, driving. And she turned 18 on the 8th.

Yeah, I know. It's insane. Thank you. I just wanted to say hi. Okay, very good. Looks like there's nobody else really. The main thing I've been pointing to these days is that we cannot solve this spiritual puzzle. We just can't solve it. And you can't find the Self in any sort of way of looking. And this, if you hear, will save you a lot of time. It's just like you're trying to measure the size of the world with a thermometer or something; you just can't do it. So all the struggling you can stop. You don't even have to struggle to understand what I'm saying now. Naturally, words are being spoken and the mind-intellect instrument may function in the way that there is some affirmation coming, some sort of understanding may be getting created, but that is the byproduct and let it happen. We don't have to resist that. So you don't have to actively try to not understand. So Father said you can't understand, so I'm not going to understand what he said, so while he's speaking I will just be "blah blah blah," it has to bypass all of this and it'll hit me when it has to. It's not like that. So all that process which has to happen can continue to happen, but the recognition of the Self will never be a product of your understanding. At best, what can happen is that you will understand that your intellect cannot get it, your mind cannot get it. So you will understand that you cannot understand. Maybe that is the highest understanding: you understand that you cannot understand. Then you leave yourself free for some time. You let yourself go for some time instead of constantly putting you under the burden of "Am I getting this? Am I really getting this? Why am I not getting this?" Isn't that... aren't these the postures that we end up taking on this apparent search? "I've been trying for so long, I've been with you for 10 years, what's happening? Why am I just not getting it? Maybe I'm not devoted enough, maybe I'm not open enough, maybe I'm not empty." But all of these things to make the wrong conclusion have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Because the only thing, the only thing is right now: what is it that is apparent to you without having to understand anything or perceive anything? So can we start our gatherings with this subtext always? And I'll keep repeating them first till it gets completely brilliant. But realize that we are not a traditional classroom. We will not understand really what the Self is in your mind. The Self is not that small that you can capture it in your head. And your experiences of the Self at best are the byproducts or the prasad of this element, never really the Self-expression, because then the Self would also be something that comes and goes and the Self would also be something that is perceivable. Now your mind may protest what I'm saying, but actually I'm just saving you, all of you, a lot of trouble. Just saving you a lot of time. Because without your mind and without your perception, what is apparent to you? Where will you go for this answer? Will you go to the usual place? I've already said without your mind. So do you go to your mind and say, "Hey friend, what do we do with this question? What should I do?" You see, the mind says, "No, no, just be empty." Is it just like that? Just cut off that and you can do it as consciousness. Don't bother with any of that. See like that, more than immediate, more than instantaneously. Yes, at least if nothing else, you will notice the habit to go to the mind, isn't it? And don't judge yourself on that, but it's just noticing. I see. What are you without your mind? Where do you go for the answer? And that is all that conditioning is about. We feel like some value can come from there, some truth, some reality can come from our heads, but it can't. It is bigger than that instrument. And don't worry about what to do with that instrument. Isn't that also God? We'll come to that in a moment. First, you experiment with what else you have. Then we'll see if something has to be done with the mind or not. Don't come to the mind's defense so quickly. Let's see. So you have a thermometer, you have a weighing scale, you have a kaleidoscope, you have all of these instruments. Let's see what we will do with each of these. Have all of you heard this metaphor about the kaleidoscope, the radio? And how many have not heard? Okay, most of you are saying... so this may be a useful metaphor for all of you and encapsulates mostly what I'm saying. So you're looking through the kaleidoscope, you see all of these myriad forms of images and sounds and signs, all of this. So everything that you perceive, let's call that the kaleidoscope. Got it? Everything that you perceive, let's call that the kaleidoscope. Yes. Now within all of these perceptions, there is also one perception which is the messaging claiming reality, which is called the mind. So the voice in our heads, let's call that the radio. It's also perception, it's also part of the kaleidoscope, but still I am going to call it out separately in the metaphor and say this is the radio. Now if the job in satsang or the job in life is to let go of the information for a moment which the kaleidoscope and the radio are offering to us, then we encounter that which we call the heart. And it has nothing to do with emotion, it has nothing to do with perceived emotional pain or pleasure. But the good news is that you don't have to go to the heart. You just have to keep the kaleidoscope and radio aside. Or even you don't have to keep them aside, just let them play out as they're trained. You don't have to value their inputs, what they are telling you. This much we can do. So let's try. Everything kaleidoscope, which is everything perception, let it be. Don't bother with it at all. Yes. If you get stuck somewhere, any of you just raise your hand or something and we will explain this. Everything that is perceivable is the kaleidoscope. Let it be. Let it present whatever shapes and sizes. Yes. And every message that is coming in the head from your mind is the radio. Let the radio play. You don't have to bother with what the radio is saying. And the radio is just about as accurate as an actual radio would be if it was trying to tell you about your life, unless the RJ was a good friend of yours. So the mind is just that accurate about your reality. It's completely inaccurate. Okay, so all perception and all messaging from the radio have been kept aside. Now what it means... don't rush, don't expect to find something that you can preempt or you can expect to have a particular shape or size or some sort of great spiritual experience. None of that. Has anyone not assimilated what I've shared so far? Happy to repeat. Okay, good, good. Perception we understand. Just raise your hand... which I understand the two hands that I saw. Perception we all understand. So everything phenomenal that shows up in the light of attention we call perception. So every perception we are using the metaphor kaleidoscope. You know, this kaleidoscope thing is to have this thing and you turn it and all these different shapes come and you know. So the world presentation is like the kaleidoscope here. So... okay, so one more... two of you are still not here. Let's see, let's see if we can catch up in a moment. Then the mind. All of you have heard this term often in satsang for years. It is just a bundle of thought, right? So there is no mind when there is no thought. The thought appears, that is the mind. It is a message which is trying to tell you something about something, you see? It is a thought. So that is what we are calling the radio. So all the imagery, all the perception as the kaleidoscope, everything coming to the mind is there. Now is there something else besides these two that you have? Where will you go for the answer? So if some of you are lost...

It's clear what the kaleidoscope is, it's very clear what the radio is. Beyond that, yeah, kind of lost. I don't know how to go beyond.

Yes, you don't have to go beyond. Just don't value the inputs coming from the kaleidoscope and the radio. Okay? And don't go to the mind in terms of the radio for the judgment about what is happening now. So you left the kaleidoscope, you left the radio, then don't go to the radio saying, "Is this working? Am I doing this right?" The radio is going, "Yes, yes, no, no, you're missing something. No, why is everyone else..." So that is the radio. So learn to recognize that that's just the radio. These judgments have nothing to do with your freedom. Then what else remains? If there was nothing else besides the kaleidoscope and radio, then there would be no spirituality. There would be no need for spirituality. There would be no truths to be spoken about spirituality. Enough. I want you all to taste for yourself what is being spoken. So now that you've left the kaleidoscope and radio aside, now are you lost? Well, when you ask such questions, again the question immediately turns to the radio. Correct? Imagine that there's actually a radio in the background. Your daughter is playing it. You can't turn it off because she'll throw a huge tantrum. So that has to play. Okay. Now that is playing, but that has nothing to do with us for the moment. So don't bother with, "Okay, what song is coming on the radio next?" The minute you ask a question, one song starts playing. So it doesn't matter. Yes, no, I'm not lost, I'm here. Very good, very good. Now that "here," what confirms that? Is it kaleidoscope? Is it perceived clearness? Is it a perceived pureness? Now the words are not confusing. Can you perceive the "I am-ness" or the "here-ness"? And even if you do perceive it, you may perceive like a sense of presence, but even that is the presence that is unlimited and therefore not restricted just to the sense of presence and all these...

The minute you ask a question, one song starts playing, so it doesn't matter. Yes, no, I'm not lost, I'm here. Very good, very good. Now, that 'here'—what confirms that? Is it a kaleidoscope? Is it perceived clearness? Is it a perceived pureness? Now the words are not confusing. Can you perceive the 'am-ness' or the 'hereness'? And even if you do perceive it, you may perceive like a sense of presence, but even that is the presence that is unlimited and therefore not restricted just to the sense of presence. And all these words you can only assimilate in your heart; you cannot see them in the kaleidoscope. Very good. You said, 'No, I'm not lost, I'm still here.' On what basis? What tells you that? Is it the radio again? Now there's a self-doubt whether it's actually coming from the radio. The good news is you can check every instant. Truth is not going away. So the radio is playing the song called self-doubt, so let it play. It's one of Mr. Secret's favorite all-time hits, self-doubt. He's been number one on the Billboard charts for centuries. So let that come up in the review, but you confirm what you told me before: 'I am here.' Where is that coming from? 'I'm still here.' Here, what is the source of that knowledge if not the kaleidoscope or radio?

What's the trouble? The trouble is it seems too natural. Yeah, just... but I just am. Why does he keep asking this question?

No, because it's so original to us, it can seem like an awkward question, you see? But the thing is, we've lost this originality in the versions from the radio. So to return to this knowledge, which is not the usual way that we conceptualize or think about our life, is to come to spirituality. We all come to our heart. You are here. You did not need something, and the kaleidoscope is going to change, and you did not need the radio to say something to confirm that. Everybody is with me on this? Clear or not? Don't go on any other side expedition. Whatever other problems we have to solve, they get solved by this one, you see. So the mind will tell you, sometimes it will celebrate too soon: 'Yeah, yeah, this is clear, but what about that?' About, you know, all the questions will come, or some other life question will come, relationship question will come. Just keep them aside. Everything will get solved. You are here. 'You' is which one? Without the kaleidoscope, without the radio, which one is you? How come you did not say, 'There is some presence here, somebody is present, should I be scared?' 'I am here.' What tells you about this 'I'? It just comes out naturally. So natural, isn't it? And is it just an expression or is it apparent to you? It is you. That it is you, is that apparent to you or you're just like saying words?

I'm just saying because it's pretty apparent to me.

It is apparent, but in which way? You see, this is the master key. This is the master key. It is not through the kaleidoscope or radio, and yet it is. That's it. That is self-knowledge. That is Atma Gyan. So now what this is telling you—let's call it intuitive insight for a moment—so this intuitive insight, what it is telling you is completely different from the version that the kaleidoscope and the radio have about you. Can you see the contrast? The 'you' that just is, and you don't need any perception to confirm that, has nothing to do with the 'you' that the mind is talking about. Although what perceptions of the mind may say are you... excuse me, yes?

From which one? The 'you' that you are confirming just like that? 'I am, I am here.' Because you said, 'Why aren't you saying there's some presence here, some somebody's am-ness is here?' You say, 'I, I'm here.' So, and I asked them, 'How is it? Are you just saying I am, or is it apparent?' And they also said, 'It's apparent.' Now, that 'you' which contrasts this mind's version of you, what is the difference between them?

It's just a thought. And the difference between them is heaven and hell. The difference between what is apparent to you without the need of these instruments, which is just naturally, intuitively apparent, versus what we take the mind version to be. Progress. So to take intuition's version as reality is self-recognition. It's always there. It's never missing. Always there. So the inquiry always works unless you have some ideas about what should show up as a result of inquiry. If you're just looking for yourself, you can never lose it. You can never not find it. If you want the purpose of spirituality, then you can keep choosing. So self-recognition is just the simplest. You don't even have to use any sight, any sound, and you don't have to use your mind. What can be simpler than that? You don't have to use the shovel or the pickaxe. You just have the word naturally. What better gold rush can be? So if it is the truth that you want about what you are, then this truth is available to you like this and in no other way. Every other spiritual practice, everything that is suggested in every satsang in the world, brings you to this very point where you have to see what you are for yourself. But that seeing is without sight. It's not the usual thing. The point of all sadhana, the point of all practice, is just to get to this. And whatever quote-unquote works to get us to this point is good enough. So it could just be Ananta sitting on the Zoom screen snapping his finger, or it could be 'Who am I?', or it could be the invitation, or it could be some other form of practice. Whatever gets you to look at yourself in this utterly innocent and naked view. Now, if you try to use this insight which you're getting so naturally and use that along with a version from your head, you see, that's when you become a spiritual seeker, or a spiritual seeker with the glimpse. You see, 'I have a glimpse of the truth, but I can't stabilize in it.' Who am I? Not the intuitive version of you, isn't it? Again, the mental version of you: 'I can't stabilize.' You see? So every time you contaminate the version into the limited one, then it is going to start feeling like hell one way or the other. There is no other hell but this. So while there is no effort needed to come to the recognition, for a while it may seem like effort is needed to drop the false, just to remain open and empty. Yeah, just that seeming exercise or something. But relationship, you see? So that may feel like effort, but actually this is effort. This is effort. But because our condition is to take effort to be natural, for a while to just become chill, to become natural, that may seem like effort. But the recognition is anytime you're trying to recognize, you're going too far. See, this is the important distinction. So effort may be needed provisionally to let go of the false, but there is no effort to recognize the truth. And that effort to let go of the false also is just a force of habit because we're used to picking up so much, it can feel like, okay, just to relax can feel like there's so much effort. So that connotation of effort will be fixed in this seaming process. Now, what is the mind's problem? 'Bus, that's it? That can't be myself.' And all perceptions, everything that comes and goes, is not real. It's just an appearance. And that also is not some ultimate truth, just a pointer, like a thought experiment to let go, to let go and to be able to look at yourself without the need of any phenomenal or perceptual input. So what is the mind encountering that it is able to make a judgment about what it is finding? It should be able to encounter and then say, like, 'What color are the flowers over there? What are you seeing?' In the same way, when your mind says, 'Oh, that's it?', what did it find? Does it have a window into what you are discovering? This may sound like a confusing question, but it's very simple. Let me just repeat it because this is the time where the mind comes in. So what I'm saying is basically, if you were to have a judgment about something—suppose you were to say, 'Oh, the Mona Lisa is really small, I was expecting it to be much bigger.' Then you say, 'Oh, have you seen it at the Louvre?' 'No, I've never seen it.' Then your judgment doesn't count. In the same way, when the mind comes and says, 'Is that it? It can't just be that,' what does it see to be able to make that judgment? Did you take it along for the ride of self-discovery? No, you can't do it. You have to leave that monkey behind. That monkey has to be off your back for you to see what you are. So if it wasn't along, then how can it comment on how it is, really? It may take the perceptual thing, it may take some dark empty space or some light or something and make that into the Self because it only deals with phenomena. Am I losing all of this? This is a very subtle point, but all of you get trapped into this stuff. Like, you will have an insight. I guarantee all of you are having the insight. Okay, you are, you are. And you can say you are. Even if you say you are not, you are claiming something about a 'you' which you are clear about. It's only the things you add after that which become the problem. So you are having the insight. Now, if you go to your mind and say, 'Oh, was that the Mona Lisa? Is that the Absolute?', then we could play either way, but it has nothing to do with it because it is like the commentator who is not watching the match. It can't watch it. Stay with me on this. It cannot watch the match, and yet it will not stop the commentary. So don't go with its judgment. Okay, then what will it require you? Then what are you to feel this? Okay, so that's it. Does that mean I am free? Am I enlightened? Start announcing satsang, you know, like that. So just check again on the version, though. What did you find about yourself intuitively, and which version are you talking about being free or enlightened now? Are they the same? That's what you have to check.

In my case, the mind doesn't even have a feeling that there was something that was discovered, or in a journal that came out. Yeah, so it just bypasses it. I mean, when you ask the question, 'Yes, I am here,' that phase is gone then.

That okay, it's not okay. Let's look again now. 'Yes, I am here.' Don't discount that. That's what's happening. Don't discount that. 'Yes, I'm here.' Because you didn't see it that way, but that's how it is sounding. Just like, 'Hey, yes, I'm here, but then so what? So what does it mean for me now?' It is like taking, 'Oh, so there's the sun in the sky, so what? What does it mean for me?' And you are the one that doesn't exist anyway. This 'me' that wants meaning out of the sun doesn't exist. That's why they clarify which version of you you are taking as real now. That which you saw intuitively without sight, or that which your mind is telling you about you? Which version of yourself are you taking to be true? Why would you need a conceptual version when your reality is ever-shining, ever-available? Why would you need to waste time going to the mind about who you are? Because even when you go to the mind, you realize, 'I am going to the mind.' I—who is that? You are witnessing the being, even am-ness, and this is apparent to you if you don't go to the wrong guy or guys. In the same way that birth and death... no, no, but let's not solve that. Because if you keep resolving, then this song comes on the radio and says, 'Okay, Mr. Self-doubt is playing.' So then let's believe the song was Mr. Devotion? No, let's not play that, you see. Let's not find antidotes to songs with the mind by putting news on. It doesn't matter what the mind DJ plays next, unless you're expecting it to become a certain view. Forget all that. Mr. Doubt will come. So what? All in the kaleidoscope and radio, in the mind version, the kaleidoscope is huge and you are nothing. You are beyond space, you see. And this kaleidoscope is nothing, and you can check that for yourself right now. That which witnesses this world, witnesses all the perception—can it be encapsulated in any sort of space, in any spatial terms? Can we determine its height, length, width? It is beyond these considerations, you see. So for the mind version, we can say it is broader than all of this and subtler than all of this, although even these don't apply, really. It's like a completely different dimension altogether. You are right now that which is witnessing even the hearing.

You can check that for yourself right now. That which witnesses this world, witnesses all the perception—can it be encapsulated in any sort of space? In any spatial terms, can we determine its height, length, width? It is beyond these considerations, you see. So, for the mind version, we can say it is broader than all of this and subtler than all of this, although even these don't apply really. It's like a completely different dimension altogether. You are right now that which is witnessing even the hearing of these words. That which is witnessing the perception of this body on the screen—that witnessing cannot be captured by the greatest object in the universe, and it is subtler than the smallest atom. Okay, let's see what other tricks the mind has up its sleeve. Let's hear some of the others.

Hello, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes, yes. Now, I don't know what to say. Yes, start afresh without the kaleidoscoping radio. What did you find? What do you find? And there's no pressure on this. I'm also asking the question. If it scares you, don't get scared.

I'm very scared at the moment. Wow, very scared.

Oh, I see. This is the scary mustache. There's nothing; this sheep's sitting here. And what are you scared of? Are you scared about what you are discovering, or Ananta and his expression?

I don't know really. Just so, in the kaleidoscope, some sensations are there which is the mind, which the radio is calling fear.

Okay. Now, besides all of this, what is there?

I feel like I cannot move my attention from all these sensations. Very strong sensations.

You don't have to move your attention. Very good point. Very good. Thank you for bringing that up. I'm not speaking about attention at all. It can go wherever it wants. What is on the other end of attention? So, attention can be one sensation, some perception, pain, pleasure—it can go wherever. But who does it report to? Does that change? Is that okay? Let's relax a little bit. Don't worry. So, just check something with me now. Suppose your attention is on your screen, no? Now, next moment your attention is on some fear. Next moment it is on some memory image from yesterday. Next moment it may go to some song or some traffic on the road or something. Now tell me, what is seen? Do you see both ends of attention jumping, or it is just one end that changes?

Can you repeat again? The question is... the signal is poor here.

So I said, when you see different perceptions, do you see that both ends of your attention are jumping from place to place, or only one end is changing?

Only one is changing.

Now, all the trouble is that we don't realize that that end which is changing is the kaleidoscope. So let it all change; it's completely fine. What is on the other end?

I cannot say, but you do see in the sense that you say that, 'I know it is me.' All this perception comes to you, isn't it? But is that ever in front of your attention now?

So the end is always constant and unchanging. That is you, isn't it? Is it hearing this voice, or is it somebody else? Because...

Say again, please. The signal is...

Is it you that is hearing this voice, or is it somebody else?

No, no, it's me.

Yes. All perceptions are witnessed by whom?

By me.

By you. And yet this 'you' has never been perceived. Tell me if it had been perceived, in which sense? Is it sensed with a different instrument? When you say it has been sensed, it is not using the usual instruments of perception, is it? It is sensed, but actually it is not even like, 'Oh, I sense some frustration, I sense some anger.' It is a different sense which is empty of all quality, you see. You tell me if it has a quality. Does it have a color? Does it have a shape? Does it have a size?

Yes, and you're able to confirm this with which tool? It's just apparent.

And that apparency is what we call intuitive insight, you see. Now, see—and I'm using the term loosely—see what is apparent to you in this way and compare that with what your mind proposes you are. That which the mind proposes you are is very different, isn't it? It's limited, it has health problems, it has relationships, it has money, it has a healthy body or not—all of these things. And for all of you here, it is on a seeming spiritual path. But what you are discovering in this way, which you're just saying is just so natural, you see. Not seeing that, but that's what I'm hearing. It's just like that. It's disappointing that 'you' doesn't have any of this trouble, struggle.

But it was about like, I have to be like in time, like to explain about... because I was going to say that...

No, no, no. Forget it. It's nothing, nonsense. If you see it as nonsense, you can discard it. Yeah. But if you feel like this is something you dealt with for many times and it keeps coming back, might as well expose it, doesn't it?

No, it's um... to pay much attention sometimes to this radio and...

But that's so... that's... yes. But what I'm pointing you to is independent of where attention goes. You see, attention will go on the radio. The attention will only be in the kaleidoscope, okay? Attention cannot come to the truth. If attention came to the truth, then truth would also be a perception. But independent of perception, send your attention to what is obvious in that natural way about what you are. Send it there. Let's see, all of you. This is a very useful exercise because we still feel like it is about controlling attention. So see if you can send your attention to that which you are, which you are finding as the witnessing itself. See if your attention can go to the witnessing. And when you reach the witnessing terminal, even the play of attention you see—although one end is always just reporting back to us—that end can never come to me because that end is just like the torchlight which is shining in its perception. And if it was able to come to me, then I would be also another perception. So at best, it can be withdrawn from all other perception and come to some sort of a darkness, but it can never really come to the Self. So don't confuse the darkness of some meditative experiences or something; just take it as a byproduct of inquiry. Not just which will be about somebody which is not real, but because it constantly plays the song, they may seem like attractive. The story, the narrative may seem compelling—all of this thing may happen. But realize that that one who is the central character in the song has nothing to do with you. You are that which you are discovering this intuitively, without the kaleidoscope, without perception and concept. Who is not discovering it? I don't mean it advertising. And what you would be saying is that, 'I'm not sure who's hearing this sound, who's hearing the dog barking.' Who is it? It is you. But that 'you,' because it didn't look like anything really, not finding it—that's the trouble. No, it doesn't look like anything. It is not objective. It's okay. So would you be happy if you found the phenomenon? The phenomena is limited. No matter how big you saw it, would it make you so happy? No. You would see that there is bigger, the space in which it is. So that would not be satisfactory. And yet that the mind constantly puts it into this treadmill, looking for something phenomenal to prove what you are. Okay, say something else, my dear.

I... no, I don't know. I get completely... which 'I' is this one? Is it... is it chopping for the rest of the signal from here as well, or is it only poor?

You can hear me well? Yes. When you say, 'I am all confused and lost,' is it your radio's version of you? Mister Fear or Miss Fear and Mr. Doubt? Yeah, it must be. Remember that the radio songs are not happening as happy as they may sound. They are not actually happy songs. It is full of limitation and doubt. What do you need to play on the radio to confirm that you exist? What do you need to show? So therefore, there is something to you, about you, that recognizes independent of these instruments. You see that, isn't it? So rely on the insight from there and see what happens.

You recognize the radio well. Now I'm not sure. Every thought is the radio. Every thought is a thought, yes.

Yes.

But sometimes I feel that it's not even thoughts. It's like a contraction or feeling it.

I've heard this in ten years. I've heard this many times, that actually what is bothering me is not even a thought anymore. Okay, now show me.

No, I cannot show you. The thoughts may get better and subtler, but to suffer, you must buy a message of something. It could be just whispering, so you do not get the exact words, but you will get the message of confusion.

Exactly. I feel there's no... I say I cannot show you identifying, you're not getting or something. But you have to take a position or a message to be true to suffer, whether that individual thought is identifiable or not. What? What?

Yes, I didn't get that.

I'm happy to repeat this. Whether the individual thought is identifiable or just whispers something like that, or you can identify it clearly, it doesn't matter. But you have to take a position, you have to take like a concept to be true to suffer. Like you may just suffer from the concept, 'I am not suffering from thoughts anymore; they are subtler than that.' That's also a concept. So leave that. Every concept is a concept. Every thought is a thought. No truth is captured in its entirety in a thought.

If I feel I'm trying to understand it, like actually...

That's okay. Like I said in the beginning, let that happen independent, but you remain independent of that. Don't try to stop the process. I don't know if you were here right at the beginning, but I realized the mind can play this trick. Don't... no, that's not what I'm saying. The intellect can do what it wants on that playground. Football can play or cricket can play or whatever you can play; it doesn't matter, you see. I am saying, what else is there to you besides that intellect, besides that mind? There is nothing wrong you can do there. There is nothing right you can do there either, in the playground or outside. All the playground stuff is the kaleidoscope. Who is looking at this kaleidoscope? Who is looking at it? And this 'you' that is looking at it, is it also seen in the kaleidoscope? No, that's it. No, that's it. That's the highest this mind can see, you see. But it is not like it was talking about it. It is not part of this game anyway, so its commentary is not valid. How do you confirm that that which witnesses the kaleidoscope is not in the kaleidoscope? How do you confirm? By not taking yourself to be an object. So you let go of the thought, but you also see that you are not in the kaleidoscope. You also notice that. But it's not a sight noticing; that is intuitive insight. That's it. Now, don't try to squeeze that into meaning something for you personally. Let it be natural. When you are free, if you make it again about the one that has the narrative, then you have taken your spiritual experience into the seeker identity. Forget about it.

Thank you, Father. And is your sister well? And my sister is... she's well. She's going through some strong situations, but I feel she's well. She's doing it. She's bringing all to Satsang, to her Satsang. So I feel that's the most important. Yeah, thank you for asking. I love you.

Okay, let's go to Marisa.

Namaste, Father. And I just felt like to come up and after you spoke, you know, you go to the place, you know, and it is true once you're in the place everything vanishes. Well, you see the mind... when I see the mind, you know, it seems that doesn't vanish, but it's seen, you know. Yeah. I mean, we all have... well, I talk about me, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that has like mind attacks, you know, especially when you talk. And I had a mind attack with Paula when you were talking from the beginning. Like, I'm sorry, it's that something opens up. Sorry, Guruji. And I mean, I do...

Can we try together my way? Yes, yes. So let's see if we can make it a bit simpler. What I've said so far is somewhat clear to you, although your mind has been attacking. And even if it is not clear to you, I'll re-emphasize so it does become. All this perception is here. Every sight, sound, face, type, smell—all of this is perception, yes?

Yes.

Now, there is also an interpreter's voice which is saying, 'This means this...'

From the beginning, um, like, I'm sorry, it's that something opens up. Sorry, Guruji. And I mean, I do... can we try together my way?

Yes, yes. So let's see if we can make it a bit simpler. What I've said so far is somewhat clear to you, although your mind has been attacking. And even if it is not clear to you, I'll re-emphasize so it does become. All this perception is here: every sight, sound, taste, smell—all of this is perception. Yes?

Yes.

Now, there is also an interpreter's voice which is saying, 'This means this, this is good, this is bad,' all of this. So let's call that the mind. Yes? Now, is there anything else to you than these two? Do you have anything else besides just perception and the mind?

No, there's nothing. My mind tells me that there has to be something else.

Mind tells you there's something else. I'm telling you there's something else. Both are on the same side for the only time ever. So, I'll go to... therefore, a question may be pertinent here, which is to ask: So, that which witnesses the mind and it witnesses all this perception, is that also a perception? Do you perceive it? It's not a puzzle.

I know I don't perceive it.

Why?

Yeah, there is the part of the mind that is like... that tells me... and what is perception, you know?

So for now, let's keep it simple. All the perception, which is a simple thing, which is sight, taste, touch, smell, feeling—all of this is perception. Now, you that is aware of all of this perception, what is that? What is the shape of that you?

I... I cannot see the shape, but there is... yeah, there is always like this mind that tells me.

But are you saying that because he says it to you, you know? Is it for real, or you're seeing it for real, you know? Okay, so for the next five minutes—and the music is playing, we need... so for the next five minutes, we won't care about which song is playing on the radio. Yes? Deal or no deal?

What? Sorry?

For the next five minutes, we will not bother with what comes up on the radio of the mind, because I want to talk to you. I don't want to talk to your mind. I know what the mind will say. Yes? Now, I'm just asking a simple thing: That which witnesses everything, can that be witnessed?

Without perceiving it, how do you call it 'you'? How do you know it is I that is perceiving it?

You are perceiving this voice, isn't it?

Because it's me. Because it is you. You meaning that this 'I'... it's my... it's my true 'I'.

Very good. But 'because it's me' should not mean, 'Oh, actually I'm an apple, and an apple cannot know itself, so you have to just take your word for it that I'm an apple.' Is it like that? Is it an inference? Is it something that you have to calculate and think and come up with the answer, or is it clear? Is it obvious without needing a perception?

It is... it is obvious, but it's not... um, it's not perceivable, you know?

Exactly, exactly. That is the master keynote. That is the master key. That which is obvious and unperceivable is the Self. That which is not obvious and not perceivable is nothing; is unreality. That which is perceivable and obvious or unobvious cannot be the Self. But that which is obvious and unperceivable is this. What is that? You are there. You are here. That is obvious even before hereness or thereness. You are even before 'are' or 'not you.' 'Am I being or not being?'—that comes later. 'I am' is obvious, unless you try to make it obvious in your head, you see. So it is obvious to you, but not obvious to your head. And that's why, can I meet you without your head? Because in your head it'll never be obvious; you will only conclude things. So that which is obvious to you and yet never perceived is you. Is your reality.

Now, what does that one want? Nothing. Is it struggling or suffering from anything? No. Now, every other version of you is just a made-up version; doesn't exist. Even the one that wants to make use of this discovery. 'Now I want to settle in there, to be stable in it'—off with its head! Don't listen to the radio. You could hear it, but don't buy its story. To be yourself, whatever song can come, whatever song you want. If the sense of presence can feel like a tangible, like the heart or some pulsation... it can feel like a pulsation. I call it on the cusp of the manifest and unmanifest. There's like a, you know, like a subtle manifestation, like a primordial vibration, the sense of being. So let that also be what witnesses that. Just ensure you're not working at the level of kaleidoscope.

Yeah, I think I'm...

Do you see yourself as a perception? Because therefore all of that is just intellectual inference. 'We must be on a higher floor because we can hear the sound of traffic coming from below.' That's an inference. Suppose you did not have the tools to infer anything. What do you actually find without them? You are hearing these words. That 'you' that is hearing these words, do you hear that, or do you see it? Unperceivable and yet obvious that it is you. That one, does it have desire or suffering or aversion for there? Now what will happen is that the narrative that we have valued in the past, we want to squeeze this one into that and say, 'Okay, now what does this mean for me? What does this mean?' So don't worry about it. It will also say, 'Can I confirm this? Like, is it...' It's unconfirmable through any other instrument except just like this innocence. The most innocent is intuition. God. So, you know, are you here?

Yes.

Would you use that? 'I can't see it, but I don't have a doubt.' 'Do something that means something for me, my narrative'—that's when it gets confused. Now the mind may have one complaint saying, 'It can't be that simple, whatever I've been doing all these years.' But it is. It is simpler than any simple. Okay, what's happening with Marisa?

Well, you know what I mean. I'm not really asking... I'm okay, I'm here, but like, there is this tendency of feeling the pull of the mind. It's the music is coming up.

Yeah, no, we don't hear it, but it fits very well with the metaphor of the radio.

Well, it's been happening a lot. So again, something is happening here, I don't know what it is. But... but it's true, I do get engaged too much, you know?

Like, that is not a conclusion I'm talking about at all. Because if you mean by 'engaged,' you mean attention. Attention can be anywhere; it doesn't matter. Can you switch the other end of attention and show me? Don't switch. So one end is on the music, it is on the screen, it is on the mind, it is on all of these things. What about the other side? Other side of attention. Is there another side of the attention?

Yes, it is coming to you. All that you perceive is coming to you, isn't it?

You can never... so in front of attention things keep changing, but where it is coming, the perception that never changes, or does it?

No, it doesn't. It always comes to you, not your neighbor.

So this 'you' is which one?

That's the... the seer. The true seer.

Exactly. Now lose that seer. See if you lose it. Can you lose it?

No, can't lose it.

So you found yourself. And if you don't go to, again, the radio's version of who you are, then you are free. Otherwise, you will make this into a spiritual experience for the radio guy and say, in the song there will be a paragraph which is talking about how you had an insight about who you were. You see the difference? So don't insert your discovery into your narrative.

Can I ask you a question? Is that when I have to make a decision, you know, staying in the business, you know, that gets... the music starts again.

Right on, right on. Welcome. So the 'I' wants to use the business to make a better decision. Yeah, yeah, that would be a very good way to put it. How the person wants to use our spirituality. 'I want God so that I can be happy. I want the truth, or I want the discovery of the truth, so that I can be in a better state.' For this 'I' is the false one. So if we want God so that God can make that one happy, then our true god is still that one only. It's not God yet.

It tricks me, like, you know, it's... it seems like it's like a good thing, you know?

Exactly, it tricks you that way. It pretends to be your friend and says, 'I'm only helping you. How do I make better decision?' Don't take yourself to be that one. That is the best decision.

And how about the vasanas, the tendencies, you know, that pull like really... like for instance, that's... that could be... that is one that it's pretty big. Then relationships, like the right relationship, you know, daydreaming. Sorry, the music again.

It's... it's very good. It's like that condition. Our tendencies are this: this music starts playing. 'You have to get this, you will be happier once you have it. I need that, I need this relationship, I need that body, I need this much money, I need this much lifespan.' All of this is conditioning. It shows up for us. So better than trying to find out the reasons why it comes, like why is the music coming, see what you really are.

That's... is that you put that pointing, and I also put it in my... in the Facebook, you know, that I really, really like that one when you put it in on... just again, hold on, when something is wrong with this machine, I don't know what it is... um, about, you know, just you pick up one leaf, you know, or one thought, you know, and you pick the whole tree. And it's true, you know, once you pick up, you know... and Guruji, I also heard it and it's true, once you don't... you don't pick any, it's okay. But then there is like this tweak, you know, that starts like... and like mind tries to find any way for you to grab that leaf, you know?

Yeah, but and staying in the place is not to fix it from that end and say, 'What to do after I picked it?' and 'What are the mechanics of it? How does the mind function?' All of that. The point... yeah, that's the point is not to pick up. Right now, don't pick up the next leaf. Right now. See, because the mind wants to be the engineer saying, 'Okay, your thought will come, then this is what the mind will do.' You see, it is the mind itself, the thief dressed up as the policeman. Don't pick up the leaves. Don't believe him. Don't listen to the next... don't think that the next song playing on the radio is about you.

What's wrong? I've... I've been grabbing hold a lot, like of the music, of the... of your book, the consciousness... speaking of consciousness. And that I could only read the first chapter if I could, you know, at the beginning. And I'm reading a lot, like about the person, you know. For some reason, like, there is something inside of me feeling like if I really see it, you know, and I don't take hold on it, you know... but as you're saying...

I'm going to give you all a tip. This is a very important tip. All of the pointing, everything in that book, everything that you're hearing in satsang is not meant to be used with the wrong instrument. So don't use it with your mind. Don't use it in time to perceive something. Then read the book and it will be like butter smooth. Many have told me it is the most difficult book I've ever read in my whole life. Actually, it is the simplest, you see. But when we try to construct... like when we read books usually we're trying to construct a philosophy in our head, a conceptual framework. But when we are reading a book like that, it is constantly chopping everything, including its own construction. That's why it can seem like, 'I'm reading and reading, but what am I really getting? What am I really getting?' Nothing. It's meant to chop up what you already have, not to give you more stuff.

Yeah, is that... that's exactly what happened. Like, I read one whole chapter, that was really surprised, and I was in... in a cafe, coffee shop, and I was in the business like all the time, in the... I was even surprised, you know. Is there... is this a place that you jump women out of?

No, it just... it's there. When you leave, the mind is there even when you are in the mind completely. Always your reality is... it is just consciousness takes itself to be something else when it believes the mind's version. And when it drops the mind version, it is apparent to it that it's made up of this pure witnessing itself, awareness itself. So it's not that you have to send your attention to some business or something. You can't do it.

I'll do that. And I'm really sorry that the times I go to the mind, because you keep putting the pointing and you know my... you know... so I'm really... I really thank you for all your pointing.

It is just consciousness takes itself to be something else when it believes the mind's version. And when it drops the mind version, it is apparent to it that it's made up of this pure witnessing itself, awareness itself. So it's not that you have to send your attention to some business or something.

You can't do it. I'll do that, and I'm really sorry that the times I go to the mind because you keep putting the pointing and you know my... so I'm really, I really thank you for all your pointings. That everything, I'm... it's beyond what I can even know. It's perfect, you know. Thank you, Guruji. Thank you so much. Sorry for the music.

I love you. We would have loved to hear it. We didn't hear anything.

Well, actually, it's the retreat from the... from Guruji. It's the retreat that it's going on. Maybe it's a hint, I don't know. Is that a receiving one? No, the retreat that I'm recording, the recordings that I downloaded, so it's coming up. Thank you, Virginia. Thank you.

Let's go to Claudia.

Hello, Father. When you... can you understand me well? Yes? When you guided us before, um, yes, there is no me and attention can't go anywhere, or attention goes everywhere. Yes. And here is a person sitting, but I can't even say that's real or not real. Yeah. And um, yes, but it is if there even wouldn't be an 'I', I can't say there is nothing or all. I... and something like a drive that I want to merge with that, but there are no feelings, no sensations in me. And yes, only this... this I can't say I am that. It's something in me perceiving it all. Yes. But when I go to mind, it's mind would... I would say, yes, jump in that, maybe, maybe. But I can't say, I can't say I am that if the other is... yes, there is no me, but there is no 'I'.

Okay, very good. Let's start with this, isn't it? No, thank you. This is a very, very important point which is helpful for everyone. So thank you for bringing that out. Now I'm going to look at this with you and see if you can follow along. So if I ask you: Are you aware now? Are you aware?

Yes.

Yes. It is apparent. You don't have to use any method of perception or of thinking or of intellect, nothing. It is just simple 'I am'. Now when we take this insight and we try to bring it back to our mind and say, 'Now you tell me what this means. On the basis of this, can I say this or can I not say this?'—all of that is a fruitless exercise, you see. So it is what it is: a fruitless exercise. It is a pointless exercise. Okay? So what I want you to do is just look without sight, like I've been saying. Am I aware now? Yes. Doesn't matter whether your mouth says yes or no, or whether the thought comes yes or no. It doesn't matter. Just the looking is what is important. Now, this insight—don't bring it to the mind and say, 'Okay, what does this mean? On the basis of this, can I say this about myself? Can I not say this about myself?' Forget all that. Forget all that. There is nothing missing in your insight. There is nothing missing in your insight. But when you try to make the insight into an understanding, that is where things will get confusing. You see the difference?

Yes. It's like this 'I' awareness is there, yeah. But that 'I am' awareness, this... it's not... yes, must be intellect who wants to get... bring this together.

It is. That is why I am avoiding you. It is clear you are hearing these words, you are aware of perception; that is already apparent to you. So the intellect is giving you non-existent problems to try and solve, you see? So don't try to fix or resolve anything in your head. It is so obvious to you. It is you that is aware of the hearing of these words. It is you that is aware. It is obvious, you see? But to the head, it is not obvious because it is not looking at any of this. It cannot. So it says, 'It's awareness, yes, it's awareness, but is it really? And how to find life?' You see? So it tries to make it into an exercise of intellect where it is not an exercise. It is an exercise of childlike innocence. It is an exercise in childhood. It is not an exercise of superior understanding.

Yes, intellect wants and no name awareness. Exactly. There's pure awareness, therefore it can't be you, you see? So it wants to be some sort of problem and the idea of spiritual progress and higher... don't worry about it at all. Allow your insight to remain childlike and emotional. The minute you try to make an understanding out of it and say, 'Yes, I saw this awareness, it did not have arms and legs, but does it have a stomach?' No, it's so stupid. It just becomes an absurd sort of question. Yes, and we feel like we have to solve them. How do you know that it is you? Is it like this kind of question? How do you know it is you? It is aware, yes, but how is it you? Right? I am aware. No, but mind is so tricky now that this 'me' is doing the questions without saying something. It's... it's undercover.

But don't try to satisfy your mind with the insight, you see? Because the mind will always take you into some further project. 'Oh, now you've seen awareness, now you have to merge the awareness in you.' It's like Humpty Dumpty, they... you know, he fell on the wall, now nobody can put them back together again. So, but you have to do it.

But at the moment I even didn't perceive mind, yes. But somewhere undercover it was working.

Yeah, it can be very exciting. That's why it's good for us to just discuss this openly in Satsang. Okay.

Um, there is that thing, something like... there's this last step which I'm unable to take, something like that. Yeah, yeah. It's like I've come to a kind of a... but something is going on that can't go beyond this point.

Let's look at this. I'm happy to look at this. It's going back. So we may mute you for just a minute. So once what happened is that there was this lady, you know, she got married and she wanted to have a lot of children. But then they died from a year, but she didn't have children. So the doctor told her, 'You can't have something.' So what happened is that her third child, it grew up and became a spiritual seeker. The third child of this lady who couldn't have children, and he grew up and became a spiritual seeker. So when he was in the spiritual seeking, he came to the brink of it, to the brink of it, and then he just couldn't get it because he couldn't take the last step. So how do we help them get the point? And if you took that problem to be true, then you are struck. So the one that doesn't exist...

Okay, I have... I have... this is the book, the only book of Mooji Baba I have. It's called 'Before I Am'. And there is just one page I've been reading for four years, and may I just read a few lines? He says, 'That's why I came for this. A feeling of joy is present when you remember and turn within again. I stress there is that awareness in which the turning or non-turning of attention is witnessed.' So I really don't know what to say now. Let all your problems be my problem. Let all your problems be marked out. Last step, second last step, second one... You are... it's something you're saying, it's too much to say this, but something wants to say: You are my own heart, you know. You're my true self. I can say that. So I really request you, please, whatever this is, it finds its solution in your future.

Nice. Thank you so much.

So Father, I understood what you said about, you know, being here and not being, you know, the radio is not you and not identifying or, you know, it doesn't matter what the color kaleidoscope or the radio is saying or doing. I just wanted to ask you, when you said like, you know, you listen to the music but don't buy into it, so is that like a practice one does? Like unsubscribing to the radio again and again every time the mind comes up? Does this also become like a practice one does? Like, this is what is self-inquiry, right? It's not me, Neti Neti. Is this like what one will keep doing? I'm unsubscribing to the radio, unsubscribing to the kaleidoscope, because it keeps coming up, right? It keeps coming up again and again.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. So we sort of alluded to this earlier as well when I was saying that because the habit is to grab from the mind and treat its ideas to be our reality, so for a while it can seem like when we are not guarding... and maybe you heard this before what I've repeated and some of you are new, so this is a helpful metaphor for this. If you've always been like a porter at the airport, your job is going to pick up bags from the conveyor belt, yeah? And suddenly the porter hears the news that he got the lottery or some inheritance is coming, so he doesn't need to do that work anymore, you see? But because he's done it for 20, 30 years, so it feels like every time this bag is on the conveyor belt, it feels like compelled to take it. So for a while it may feel like effort. No, no, don't pick it up, just stand. Yeah? So then it can be on the bag itself, on the conveyor belt itself, the bag can come saying, 'But can't this conveyor belt stop then?' Excuse me, so don't pick that up because you will say, 'Why can't the mind just stop instead of me not having to pick it up?' But that's also just another thought. So for a while it will seem like to come to effortlessness, it will feel like some effort is needed, and that we can provisionally call our practice. So whatever practice helps us to come to this point where we're not picking up visions which the mind is telling us as our reality, that practice is auspicious. And any practice which sort of makes us pick up more and more ideas from the mind itself, maybe about the practice itself, is not necessarily serving us well at this point.

So you're saying initially it is a practice? It is like a so-called awareness that one builds and then after some time it becomes effortless?

He said that as long as it seems like effort to let go of the next thought, to not jump into this stream of thought, you must keep... like we must keep making that effort till one day we will see that even that was just great success.

So every time there's suffering and there's intense suffering, then one just unsubscribes to it. That is like an ongoing process 24/7.

Well, you will notice that you're not buying into so much actually. This feeling in your heart when you carry this intention, then you will notice that you can check now that in the next 10, 20, 30 thoughts that come, how many are you really subscribing to? It's only those which have been nurtured with a lot of belief in the past; they seem to have a lot more gravitation pull. So you may need to... so what you could also do is if you notice a pattern which is repetitive, right, and you notice that most of the other stuff doesn't get used but something about some relationship or something about some insecurity about something that gets... then put that one into your inquiry. Who is that one that wants to have a million dollars in the bank? Some... whatever the idea, or wants to be free. Any... anything which keeps getting you again and again, pull that into your inquiry and keep inquiring on it as much as you can whenever you get time, till when that thought comes, maybe when the notion arises, it doesn't become laughable. You can continue; it will become light and laughable after a point. Just like the other ludicrous thoughts which you let go of, this one will also become like that. Only if you notice a repetitive sort of pattern which keeps getting you, like one particular thought pattern which keeps grabbing you again and again, you can pull that into your inquiry and use it as a tool for your inquiry.

So my question is: Does this remain like a constant practice, like a constant awareness that you're doing, or it's just something one of more and more natural?

Really more and more natural. And you won't have to... it will not seem like effort. It will seem like a very natural life to not pick up from the conveyor belt. Whether the conveyor belt is on or off, it will not matter so much to you anymore. And what will happen is that there's only vigilance to the extent that you don't get into any sort of denial, which means that if some thought is there, it's making you suffer, you're buying into it, but you get...

You're doing or it's just something more and more natural, really. More and more, you won't have to—it will not seem like effort. It will seem like a very natural life to not pick up from the conveyor belt. Whether the conveyor belt is on or off, it will not matter so much to you anymore. And what will happen is that there's only vigilance to the extent that you don't get into any sort of denial, which means that if some thought is there, it's making you suffer, you're buying into it, but you get into some sort of a denial saying, 'No, no, no, but I am the Self, this is not really happening to me.' Instead of that, better to look at that and say, 'Okay, what is it that I'm buying into?' This motion, instead of trying to push it out or using other concepts.

So Father, there are certain supposed areas in your life that you need solutions for. Like, you know, you're looking at life for solutions. So is that like something that doesn't matter at all, the solutions? Like suppose, you know, I mean, I'm looking at myself and my daughter and looking for a solution for some of her problems or health problems. So is that like something that one should just not do and unsubscribe to the whole thing?

So, the 'no' there is, 'Okay, something is not right, it could be better because of this.' Yes, 'better' is the notion that we have, yeah. So that is the first one, right? So how would a plant solve a problem, or how would the animal who doesn't have the ability to conceptualize to the human level, how would that one solve a problem? This is the second part of my answer, which is that there is an inherent intuitive intelligence which also functions, you see. And a good example of that is just the sharing of satsang. When the master is sharing satsang, it is not a flow which is going from heart to head to mouth. But we feel like things cannot be resolved just from the heart, you see. It's like the heart cannot take control over the mouth or the hands, like the intuition cannot send an email on our behalf; we have to be 'mindy' about it. But that is not true.

So we come to satsang to get the version of how it is possible for things to just flow from the heart and how the intuitive insight, the Satguru presence, can use this body instrument to share what he wants to share without contamination from the mind. In the same way, whatever needs fixing in life and needs to be changed in life, that intuitive intelligence can also guide you to design. So don't feel like the only problem-solving instrument you have is the mind. In fact, it is the most limited instrument you have. There's a much deeper intelligence which runs this entire universe. That is what you're getting access to when you let go of the radio. You notice that you come to the heart. So I didn't speak about the heart so much because it is not possible to go to the heart; it is only possible to drop the kaleidoscope and radio. As you're dropping the kaleidoscope and radio, it is not that you'll become dumb or you will not be able to take care of your daughter or look for solutions for her health or well-being in any way. All that intuitive insight and intelligence can guide your path very beautifully.

Thank you, Father. That was very helpful. But it always seems like some kind of a struggle between the mind's goals and knowing that you're not that, but yet the goals of life seem to be very real.

And in the mind's words, life is a problem to be solved. That's why if you look at philosophers, thinkers, all of them have postulated a meaning of life. But life is so broad, it doesn't need to have a conceptualizable meaning. Like, what does 'right now' mean? What is this? It is too broad for our intellect to capture. Is it so? To be able to meet life in this way where you don't need to find a conceptual meaning, but you meet the meaning in your heart. It doesn't mean that life is meaningless, because that can be the other meaning that the mind can give. It is just that we accept the mystery of life is too big for our head to fathom, but it is not unfathomable for the heart.

So another question that comes up then, when you say that and so the heart understands it, so there's these practices like kindness and generosity and service. Yeah, it's also to be unscripted, unsubscribed conceptually yet?

And you'll find that answer may be shocking; some may find it unpalatable. But if you look at the expressions of all the sages, you will notice that they were operating from the heart and they have gone down and done... like there's some stories of some of the Avadhutas who used to enter people's shops and throw all their things on the floor and things like that, you know. And first the shopkeepers would get angry, but they found because maybe their perspective changed or something happened, they found great benefits coming in their life after that event happened. So they would welcome these abusers and say, 'Come to my shop and throw things down.' Because life is so large and in most situations in our head, we don't really know. Like somebody comes up to you on the street and asks you for... so what would kindness then mean? It is too hard for our head to be able to capture. So we just have to go to the deeper intelligence and it always guides us in a way which is auspicious.

One tip I have for all of you is that don't burden your intuition with the need to be right. It's not a city which you will go to and say, 'I dropped my mind, but now I just go to my intuition and God always tells me tomorrow this will happen, after this will happen, tomorrow this will happen to Joe Biden, this will happen to Boris Johnson.' All of this, so I can predict world events and all—it's not like that. It will sometimes tell you the most ludicrous stuff, but it is more auspicious for you right now. And that is the development of trust. In yogis' examples we've heard so many of these. They would say, 'Come, come, we're going to Chennai,' and you get to Chennai and they say, 'Come, come, no, no, no, no, let's go back.' And people say, 'Why? What are you doing?' And trust it, and don't look for right and outcomes and our minds' version of what is the best thing to happen.

Amazing. It's so simple, but sometimes one makes it so complicated due to habit. In a way, it is sort of like a development of trust.

It also happens when you come to satsang, then you try out some of the pointers and feel like, 'This helps, okay.' So sort of development of trust happens the same way as we... thank you.

Thank you, Father. Thank you. Very good to see you after a long time. Yeah, I didn't know how to join and then suddenly I saw it on Facebook today, so I said I got the number and the timing and right.

Okay, let's go to Clarissa.

Hello, can you hear me? Yes, you can hear me. Yes. Hello, Father. Thank you. What you said to Kavita now helped me a lot to come out of this struggling. It was very strong the last time. And what is the message behind the struggle? There is so much pressure I feel and I'm constantly... it's like I'm fighting with this pressure to keep it away.

And what kind of... what is the pressure? Is it like a mental...?

It's a mental pressure. It's very dense. And it's very good, I'm very grateful that I can be here and that you picked me up. Thank you.

Let's go to Jada.

Hello, my voice is clear now? Yes? Okay. Yeah, it's a little bit related to what you talked with Kavita because through the satsang I'm just learning a lot because, yeah, it's all about intuition, Father. And I told this to you before also, you always encourage me to follow this. And when I follow, when I trust you actually, and when I let go, another power which always I hear from also Bhagavan and you know, another power takes over and just does what needs to be done. And it's amazing because it's like you are fully yourself and at the same time, I call this like my Father, that power just takes over. And at the same time, even though I trusted fully and I really just could let go of myself, I trust the more I do, the more I trust. But sometimes also it touched some points which I'm still somehow hanging on to. Because it also can challenge—not also, it challenged others, it challenged lies. And sometimes it was hard for me and even though I never doubt, this was just kind of hardship for me. And it just revealed these, how is it called, blind spots? Yes, within me. But it doesn't necessarily lead to only happy-happy moments. Sometimes it becomes pressure and can squeeze others as well around us. But the result is always more than happy, Father, because you are just fully yourself. There is no other happiness than this. And so there is no space for mind attack, nothing. When you follow this intuition, it just comes from you and then there is no mind attack, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. But again, again, I started to fall a little bit, but it's nothing because I'm just speaking with you now. You just will bring me again to this power because when I cannot follow it, it's hell. And I have no other option other than to follow this. So yeah, it is done.

In our head to bring us to our heart. So your Father is the fire that burns in our heads to bring us to our hearts.

Yeah, but you know, Father, I don't know, sometimes I feel like just it's just too much power. Like, I don't know now, but I can maybe say that it can cause a little bit of resistance. You're already taking care of all of this, so I'm okay. Yeah, but anyway, I just want to again offer what needs to be offered and I just want to say that I'm fully with you and to be with you and to surrender to you really, this is the highest and... thank you, I love you.

Thank you. Okay, let's go... yes, yes, yes.

Okay, I just wrote it down what I want to say. Yes, yes. But I didn't go to work today, but I should have done, but I was thinking so much what is the most important things in my life and it is you. And I was thinking, okay, but sometimes I will run out with food and I cannot pay the bill and if I cannot pay the internet, you know, I still will not hear you. And it was so much thinking about free will and God and everything again. Because I know it's everything in God's hand, but still this decision... but this is not what I will speak about now. But anyway, I am already here so, and I don't know why, but it seems so not loud enough. But maybe I will just ask my question and after I put this headphone again. So yeah, thank you so much being here with you again, I am very happy. Thank you so much. And so at the beginning of this satsang you already mentioned that it is not the way to try understanding with the mind anything. And actually it seems to me it's just happened with me so far when I was in with you. But now then you said this, this is not... I mean, this is a fault or something, but this is now like created a new identification. Yeah, I wrote it down, it is better. From the time when you said this is not good to try to understand with the mind, I am trying to switch off this tendency to understand with the mind because I said, 'No, no, no, it's danger, no, don't go there, don't go there.' And it takes all my mind energy now not to understand you with the mind and even my head is just so painful and it's like created a new identification. Yeah, I could put this.

So actually today itself, after saying this, I also made it a point to say that whatever happens in that playground of understanding, let it happen. Because many times upon hearing that you don't have to understand, the mind hears, 'I don't understand' or 'I should not be understanding,' and it causes the resistance. So if you hear the recording again, you will hear that I mentioned this point where the mind uses this trick. So I said at that level, if some words are being heard, some understanding is happening, your head is nodding, you see, all those things happen, that can continue. It doesn't get in the way. There is no problem with that. I am only saying that don't rely on that understanding.

But you don't have to understand. The mind hears 'I don't understand' or 'I should not be understanding' and it causes the resistance. So if you hear the recording again, you will hear that I mentioned this point where the mind uses this trick. So I said at that level, if some words are being heard, some understanding is happening, your head is nodding, you see, all those things happen. That can continue; it doesn't get in the way. There is no problem with that. I am only saying that don't rely on that understanding to tell you what you are.

I know, I'm sorry. I know this, but you know, still this came to my mind and I don't know why it's so much difficult now to hear you. I don't know. It was always like so natural. I just came here and I don't know what already happened to me. I didn't know, I didn't care because it just happened. It was so peaceful and yeah, it just happened somehow. And now also my mind said, 'Look, you didn't go to work' and by just sitting here without understanding, and I get so annoyed as well with myself and with all these things. So I feel now I just lost... oh yeah, sorry, I'm sorry.

So all I'm saying is don't worry so much about what your mind is saying, what it is doing.

That's all what I feel right now. I cannot put my attention to you or to anything without understanding. Yeah, it is just a thought. I know this and still it is taking all my effort and energy. I don't know. Yeah, because I know it is just a thought. I know.

Tell me something which is not a thought.

Yeah, I cannot say anything that is not a thought. Are you with her? I am not at the... what? No, I'm just... I'm definitely not that dude. No, you are here. No, you're here. Yeah, I am... I don't... it is your existence that is here. Ananta Ji, I could say that everything what I would say... can I say yes, I am exist? But really, because this is a so quiet place, very pointing to, then it doesn't say anything really. So when I say something, it is already not that.

Yeah, but everything that can be spoken is a concept, is it? Therefore it is a thought, isn't it?

Yeah, so... but the insight that you're having when I asked you, 'Are you aware now?' Yeah, the insights that you have... insight that you have when I ask you, 'Can you stop being?' or 'Are you aware now?' Now it doesn't matter what you say in response to that. It only matters what that insight is. And for that insight, you don't need a thought. You don't need a perception, isn't it?

Yes, but then when I have to speak about it... if I don't have to speak about it, it is so good. I mean, it is peace. Yeah, sorry, sorry, I just take so much time. I'm so sorry.

All I'm saying is that trust your intuition to be able to use your mouth how it has to. Don't bring it to your head. Like, don't bring your insight to your head and say, 'But if everything that is spoken, you see, only has to come through the mind...'

Your mind will only say that. I mean, it is so difficult. I mean, sometimes it's just not even easy but obvious, like... and sometimes it seems so difficult. And it's still... yeah, it is still my mind.

Yeah, so off with your head! I wish... off with your head. Now, if words have to come, let them come. If they don't have to come, let them not come. But what is important is...

I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, this peace is just enough. I don't need more. I mean, I just don't need to know who I am, really. I don't need to know it because if I want to know it, it is already so much confusion and...

Well, this is because whether you need to know, whether you don't need to know, all of this... don't worry about any of this. It's so easy. It's so easy.

Ah, I'm so sorry to came up, really. I mean, it's fine. It's very nice. Now we don't hear you. Sorry, it's just so easy and I mean, yeah, I'm so sorry to come up because it is just nothing to do, really nothing to do. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being with us. I'm so happy and I love you so much. Thank you, thank you.

Let's go to Kumar.

Nice to see you again, Father. It's so good to see you again after such a long time. So I just wanted to share that you once told me to be open and empty. I really took that pointer to the heart and that really helped. And I see the relationships with the family are harmonious. There's a lot of transformation. But on one front, there is a light frustration that I could sit like 40 minutes in my seated practice just abiding, not moving, but then I moved two times. But that seated period of meditation has not gone to like one and a half hour, two hours. And you said it's not necessary. I try to put it off my mind, but that slight frustration is somewhere hiding, that of not being a good sadhaka, you know? So it really bothers me. Although I find this peace, then why is that sitting period not increasing? Am I just fooling myself?

Good, good. I'm happy to hear you. It's very sweet, nice. Actually, this is a lot more openness. It's serious spiritual time to, you know, solve this puzzle of freedom and something. This is a lot more relaxed. So what is... let's look at what is practice to bring us to God. Everything else would be for personal benefit. And to bring this to God for God's sake, not for some other benefit. So now whatever brings you into the presence of God, which is your own beingness unadulterated by your mental condition, that is a good impact. So if you do... you don't need to benchmark yourself on some other parameter. Just open. When you open and you are evaluating God's presence, what can be higher than that? I'm not saying you have to give up, but this is how practice can become aggressive if you come in here 40 minutes like an interview. So it's not like that. I remember being caught up in this kind of thing earlier, saying, 'Oh, did I want to be...' your own divinity in such a beautiful way. It's completely fine and don't judge yourself from these benchmarks, seated practice or standing practice.

It really helps because, you know, just judging yourself and trying to set benchmarks is just like something you bring it from your material world, that ambition, and you make it an ambition in the spiritual realm. Just thank you so much. I feel like more lighter. Life is more lighter now. It's not like some enlightenment goal. It's fine, it's peaceful. So thank you so much.

I can see how much lighter you are. Your lightness of being is so apparent. Thank you to your guidance. Thank you. Okay, we have Laurent. Laurent, Laurent, no, couple of times. I'm so happy to see you. I saw you the last couple of times as well, but you didn't come up to speak those times.

No, um, not sure why hand was raised. Yes, depending who's talking actually. But he's been very tired and undergoing a lot of weird things. But yeah, there was not so much... not sure. That's another thing, this body, the hearing is not so good these days. It goes up, down. Well, without a great recipe, you know, because I got this fluid infection... sorry, because I have this COVID infection, I got a nice sibby also along with that. Like, I lost my sense of smell and it's still not fully back and I feel like it's a great gift. Yeah, but everything is a gift, really. It's... this is so in this... and whether it's the perception with ears is not so good or sometimes there's all this whistling and tummy pain and full blast of perceptions, and it feels it's really a blessing to find that which perceives, to remain as that which perceives. Of course, the movement that is seen is that... yeah, still maybe talk about this. With these physical perceptions that through conditioning are labeled unpleasant, there is this... when it gets very loud like that, there is this, 'Okay, let's dive into it and embrace,' not trying to... because of course the conditioning will be like it's like something very condensed. And then the fact of rejecting it or labeling it or whatever habit things will make it even more dense. Then comes... well, maybe it will make the connection with what was said on attention. Like, just on this point, I just want to make a point about this point, which is that...

Suppose you didn't worry about cause and effect. Sorry, sorry. Suppose you did not worry about cause and effect. Yeah, therefore not concerned about making it more dense or less dense and what causes that or doesn't cause it. Suppose everything has only one cause, which is God or consciousness.

But this is... okay, yes. This is the... yeah, of course. The thing is what I was trying to be shared is that... um, I'm not sure how to talk about this truly. When something is so uncomfortable, let's say, there will be a tendency to try to lessen the thing. So it can be through... and this will make the link with the conversation about attention, because at that point I could see that understanding was trying to grab something. At that... in that process, there is like wanting the attention not to be so focused, let's say, on this whistling, and so to bring back attention to the Self. But then... and all that is observed. But then when in the beginning of... I don't know who was speaking and you said... but you said about this one end of attention and who is at the other end of attention? Of course there's nobody at the end of attention, but like remain as the witness. And it's like... it's like this movement, no? So at some point there is like this observation of this... okay, let's... but of course it's labeled. If attention is on it, it's going to be bigger. So let's get back attention. I don't know what to say. Fully, fully what is seen is that there is... it's a subtle form of rejection of the perception that... and still trying for it to stop. Okay, and just here... yeah, but here nothing to say.

What? Try to speak from the heart. No rush. If from the heart there was nothing to say, then no sage would have ever shared anything. Is this... maybe you don't give it enough of a chance and don't judge whatever is going to come out. Just let it go.

No, it is not that. It is associated with a body. It truly is a perception. There is a perception. For the sake of talking, I will say I will say ears and I will say whistling. And truly what is observed is that there's a label. This is part of the old conditioning. Maybe it is like... how to say that? Something that keeps being observed and somehow must be underlying. Is this... once fully established in the Self, none of this is labeled and is rejected? So it's not even... it's fully tasted. And here it's not... it's like, I don't know. Is that clear?

Yeah, I feel... I feel we are close enough for me to tell you this. Yes, that it's still like head. Yes, good. Okay. Don't try to understand. Don't try to infer. Don't try to rationalize. Let it be. There's the feeling there is some kind of avoidance here. I don't know how to put this. I think... may I see something about this?

Yes, yes.

And I'm noticing more and more that actually our need to conceptualize is the greatest avoidance. This... sorry, what did you say? Conceptualize. Our need to conceptualize and intellectualize is the greatest avoidance, is it? Yes, it's just like, alright, exist now. Your mind will say, 'But what is this? This is not good. This has to stop. This can't come.' But without that... and it's not that you're dumb. Without that, something in your heart already knows what this is, you see? But we feel like we are a bit naked without our concept. 'Oh, this might be some fear' or 'This must be something else.' And we feel like once we are able to label it, then we are actually getting some handle on it or we're getting some power over it. Actually, our labels are so insignificant and they're so absurd and abstract that we use like a term like anger or fear or resistance. We've used it for twenty thousand different sensations, you see? Because our vocabulary is not big enough to have so many labels, isn't it like that? Without trying to understand or figure out, because our need to understand is only so that we can problem solve. We can problem solve, but the heart...

Actually getting some handle on it or we're getting some power over it, actually our labels are so insignificant and they're so absurd and abstract. We use a term like anger or fear or resistance; we've used it for twenty thousand different sensations, you see, because our vocabulary is not big enough to have so many labels, isn't it? Like that, without trying to understand or figure out, because our need to understand is only so that we can problem solve. We can problem solve, but the heart can also problem solve if there is something like a problem, in its own beautiful way.

It's not anymore, because this one had a very fast and bright intellect, let's say, and always used to go to it. So this is... but it's not that now. I don't think it's at this level. It's not trying to label, but what is observed is using the pointings to...

Okay, may I ask you, what is your attempt in this question, in this conversation? Are you attempting to understand? What was the attempt?

No, no. The attempt is letting words come out as spontaneously as they can, so that if you smell something, you say so. Who was answered? Because in the way words came, you said it's still in the head. To be honest, words are becoming more and more difficult, so I'm not sure.

I like hearing that. I like the sound of that. You do? It's a bit weird here because there was the greater strength, that openness, that vulnerability to allow all our concepts about ourselves to break. That is very beautiful. But you may not enjoy it because you may feel like, 'But my articulation was my best part, and now words seem difficult.' The mind will say, 'But no, no, you can't go there,' you see. In the life of most who become fully open and empty, they have had this period of inarticulation, like no word actually seems to be satisfactory.

Yeah, yeah, there is this. And there is also observed—how to put this—in the use of 'I,' most of the time it comes 'this one, this one, this one.' It is the whatever. And when there is 'I,' which I don't know how to speak about this, to me the only 'I' is impersonal. This is so clear. Okay, but as when 'I' is used, there is still this sometimes... oops.

What is the origin of that rule? What is the origin of that exactly? Another rule that 'I' to me is only personal. What is the origin of that? That 'I' to me is only what? Personal?

No, no, no. That's what he said. That's not what he said. It's like in the realization that the personal 'I' doesn't exist and that 'I' is only impersonal, there is, whenever 'I' is spoken, it is observed that something is trying to check that this 'I' is really impersonal. So it's 'I,' so of course it is going to be seen as it. It goes all very fast. It seemed like remnants of the old conditioning playing. But is that clear, what I'm saying? So if you were at a restaurant and I said to you, 'Madam...'

No, but of course I say, 'I love it.' We can't go to restaurants anymore. Everybody's not even going to say the label of this concept. Let's not talk about this because this is still making this one take shape and no, no, no, I'm not going there. Who's guarding your spirituality? What? Who's guarding your spirituality? The non-existent one still trying to get back his job? He's been fired so many times. Oh, wow. Serious. It is not spiritual. What did you say? Anytime spirituality becomes serious, it is no longer spirituality.

Yeah, you know, actually we have to take our spirituality seriously. It is not spirituality. Yeah, and in the realization of that, that has been observed here also so much. Like, let's label it anger, but like towards a spiritual ego. Whenever it is seen, it starts something inside, like they're really like not compassionate. No serious conclusions. Only for conclusions at all, truly. But at least no serious conclusions.

Yeah, you see, what is coming now is... this is full ego. It's like this. But I like the change of voice. I'd like to change your voice. What is coming now? This is full ego.

Yeah, but that's the thing. This one wouldn't speak a word truly if... don't follow your next thought. That's really... listen, I heard this, that was quite amazing. I've discovered this Quebec woman who is self-realized and she holds satsang. This one has been drawn to listening to her lately and she was sharing that one night the body was woken up and everything had gone, absolutely everything had gone. Only particles were there. And she said it all came back. She was moving at the time and she said it all came back with one thought, and the one thought was, 'I don't have time.' And foot, all the walls came back, all the... and oh, there's an emotion with this. There's... as far as this projection, this outside world is concerned, a strong intuition is there that what she put in words is the truth. And what is also observed is that this one—and that's where it gets ego—this one would love to experience that. And it is observed, but it's very sticky. Do you see? Don't know if it makes any sense to mention that.

But I just want to say that whatever the quality or quantity of spiritual experience there may be, all you could have, fantastic spiritual experience all day, but it is known. It is not you. You are beyond that.

Yes, but it is... yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm just trying to expose something that keeps coming and this one will manifest itself through various experiences like that. Shapes, beautiful shapes of you coming and sharing things like that, and then I can see emotions coming and desire of that coming.

What is so? In fact, this is what I call the Arjuna commander. Yes, Lord Krishna is having a conversation with Arjuna. He's his best friend and disciple. So what happens in this case is Arjuna is refusing to go to battle and Krishna is telling him the deeper truths. So he loses his sense of worship away and gets with the program basically, right? So what is happening initially, if you read the Gita, the Lord is very clearly pointing to Arjun saying, 'You are beyond perception, you are beyond birth and death. None of this which appears here is what you think it is. Forget about all of this.' After he and the greatest guru, the best friend, the charioteer, everything is available, but what does Arjuna say? 'Can you show me the greatest experience? You show me an experience of yourself which is greater than my usual realm of experience.' What happened? What happened after the Lord, even in His mercy, showed that what is called the Virat Roop, the magnificent form? You see, Arjuna wasn't free, of course. And it is said that he was free only much, much later, closer to the end of his life, that they attained freedom.

So then towards the end of his life, what, we are in freedom? Ah, yes, yes, yes. This one wants to attain it now.

Of course, of course. If all seekers want it now, but they want it in the form of some experience. Exactly. What is called verifiable, but this means perceivable, from objectifiable experience. But Krishna has already told him that beyond this realm of perception is your reality.

Yes, yes, yes. So this is the... it's not just about Arjun, it's about all seekers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's clear, it's been seen and seen and seen and seen, but it's still to manage it. I don't know why it still comes somehow.

It's no, it's not that it still comes, it's that when it comes, it's still... I can see there's this slight attachment to it because it's still like... I want to tell you one thing as a friend, as I consider you a dear friend, so I'm gonna tell you this: You do not have to prove to yourself or to me or to anybody in the world your spiritual problems. I know. I feel like there may be some fear or something looking that you're losing it or you're losing your insight. So none of that will ever happen. No true insight is ever lost. Don't worry at all. And I know what you are in your reality, you see. You know what you are in your reality. Don't worry about this game so much and what gets said and what doesn't get said. It's all okay.

Yeah, I'm not sure there is fear of this, of losing at this. No. What can still be at play in very, very, very subtle ways is the 'what's in it for me?' It's always seen and it's seen more and more that it's still... yeah, I don't know.

What is your biggest fear? What are you most scared of?

Okay, not to have served as highly and fully as could have been.

That is not possible. That is impossible, completely unfounded here. So it is like a spiritual fear. It is like a spiritual fear that 'I did not live up to the highest of my spirituality, that I don't honor myself enough.'

Yeah, yeah. Lately it's... I can't... the way it's gonna be put in words is not true because I don't believe in it, I don't buy this anymore. But it's like it's still a display of laziness or not... who was mentioning sadhaka, sadhana or something, whatever. So it's not... the more it goes, the more this body... it's very weird because sometimes, most of the time, this one is alone. And then lately there was this proposal and mind said, 'No, no, I'm not going,' and I could see the body starting moving and starting preparing to go and it was so... so the game, I'm not... I don't know what is being said. I have no idea where it was going, this. It's totally...

Thanks, good. Let's laugh about this. No idea what was being said, because nobody actually has any idea. What does anyone have any idea about anything or where everything is going now? But I just want to leave you with one message. Just like... not that you're doing it and I don't want you to feel guilty or nothing, it is not a judgment, it is just something arising for me to say: Just don't take yourself seriously at all. Yes, your jokes are amazing, your sense of humor is amazing. Just enjoy yourself. Just enjoy it. Don't worry. Light, light, light. Easy. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Much, much love.

Thank you, Anantaji. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for being here every Friday with us. I don't see you, I still learn. Oh no, thank you. I had to write some things because I'm very distracted lately. And this is coming a little bit because in my condition of mental health, I'm pretty good right now. But what happened when... right now is that I feel I still have, when I'm not in a good feeling, when I'm not feeling like right now, I cannot think about, 'Oh, I'm feeling good, what can I do? What do I do in life?' No, because oh, I'm so high that I'm crazy. So I'm not even thinking about what I'm doing, just I'm crazy. Or I'm so down like in depression that I cannot even... the only thoughts is I want to take out my life and commit suicide or whatever. But now that I'm okay, that I'm with medicine, I'm very low, which I think it allows the cognitive system to be more alert in anything. This has a bit of confrontation with what we understand what is the Self, like pure awareness. Because it's like, okay, if I'm taking medicines and I feel very like with drugs, very down with the drugs, my cognitive system is not working so fine. So it's even difficult to inquire in anything because it's like your intellect is not functioning in the right way. And this is just to complement what I have to say. The point is that now that I feel pretty good, I say I just have some problems in the sleeping, that I woke up like once or twice at night. Well, all these things, it happens also because the medication of 17 years that I had in this brain, I guess. But I want to... it is very difficult for me just to make a distance, to separate, to detach myself of my jiva from pure awareness.

Functioning right in the right way, and this is just to compliment what I have to say. The point is that now that I feel pretty good, I say I just have some problems in the sleeping, that I woke up like once or twice at night. Well, all these things, it happens also because the medication of 17 years that I had in this brain, I guess. But I want to—it is very difficult for me to just to make a distance, to separate, to disattach myself of my Gemma from pure awareness. And I prefer to hear awareness, Gemma, from the condition. So it seems to me that I have a big, big attachment right now. Since 17 years, I've been sick. By now, I could say I'm not sick anymore, more or less. I don't think I'm—I'm fine. But for these 17 years that I've been once a year going three weeks in the hospital, psychiatric hospital, and then getting depression and then coming again next year the same, next year the same, this has been 17 years. So for me, it's like my history. Like Gemma's history is the condition of mental health because before these years, I yes, I remember I was working in some things, but it's not so attached to my history. The big, big history is this last 17 years.

And in one way, I'm angry because I think if I can be fine now with very less medication, that is not because the doctors but because my own will decided to get little medications and I feel better. I still have to go to the doctor once a month, but I have to go in 10 days and I don't know what I'm going to say because they always say, 'No, no, you are very low in medication, you have to put more medications.' It's like, 'No, no, I'm okay. I don't want to put more medication right now.' But right now, I feel I'm very attached to this condition because it's for me it's a strong condition during so long. And also, since 11 years I don't work because of this condition. I get payment from the government and I haven't been doing too much. But now that I feel better, it's like, what is Gemma doing in this world? Just to have this condition, to not work for now 11 years? And now, what I'm doing? I woke up and I said, it's like I feel a lot of Gemma, like what am I doing? And so I try to pray somehow, a way like saying, 'Please God, please pure awareness, let me know what I have to do because I don't know.' I asked myself, I don't know what to do. I'm like stuck. Like, what do I do? I don't know what to do. And this makes me feel like I'm losing my time. I feel like I have lost 17 years.

But now it's like I'm in a break of these years and saying, 'No, now it will come different.' But I'm stuck because it's like, what do I do? It's 11 years I don't work. I cannot search for a work because I can't work because this—I mean, yes, I could do whatever, but it doesn't come an idea of what to do. It's like I just do yoga once a week and it's like, what else I do? I don't have a lot of social relationships. I live by myself right now and it's like I'm losing my time. So with this attachment, I get very inside Gemma's preoccupation about what is my life, what is Gemma's life? So I get very inside in identification with Gemma's life, like saying, 'It's perfectly okay that I'm pure awareness and I believe I have pure awareness and in the pure awareness there's no problem at all.' But I see Gemma, this pure awareness embodied in Gemma, and Gemma must be doing something. I'm not a tree or a plant to stay like this. I'm not doing anything. But I pray to God that gives me the flow of putting me like something, like, 'Please God, put me in something that Gemma is doing in life as a human being.' It has to do something. You cannot just sleep and eat.

I don't know if you have some idea, something you could tell me about this. How to first, how to disattach myself a little bit of all these 17 years of story, the history that I have that I cannot forget. I mean, I could remember, but if I can remember in a way that—because many times I think, 'So God gave me this condition to be able to realize myself.' Well, thank you God, you know, it was not a very nice condition. So now, could you please help me to at least put me in doing something in this life? And of course, merge me with You as I'm pure awareness doing whatever I'm doing. But now it's not—I'm not doing whatever I'm doing. I'm like this. Yes, I'm pure awareness, but if pure awareness is not in a plant, it's in a body, in a human body. A human body is supposed to be doing something, no? I don't know. So how to pray, or which is the way to disattach from all this story, so that this past story doesn't stop me to really realize I am the Self? And of course, it's like I go from this past to the present of not doing anything. What I'm doing? And probably with a little bit of projection of what am I going to do all the rest of the life? I'm going to stay like this? How to know what is the next move when as a person I don't have ideas of, 'Oh, I can do this, yes, I'm going to try to work in these things, to volunteer here or doing something.' It's like it's not coming anything and it's like I'm dead this way anyway as a person. So more or less this is how it has—and there's a worry in this, no? And I don't want to be stuck in this worry now that I'm emotionally, let's say, because this condition of sickness is like emotion sickness they call it, the professionals. Like now that my emotions are more established, more fine, please make me move in some direction. Thank you. This is what comes up.

So I feel like you're making very good progress and it's very visible in your demeanor and how you are speaking everything. It is very obvious because in the middle, all of us were very concerned about your well-being and how things will happen. So I'm very happy to meet you in this way. It's very beautiful. Firstly, I wanted to say that. Secondly, I just feel like you've been on a long roller coaster. Like you said, sometimes the highs were so high and the lows were so low. But it's not been a short roller coaster; it's been a 17-year roller coaster.

Sorry, could you speak a little bit slowly? Because your audio is not very good. I have to tell you to see if you can correct that because it's not very good. I listen better to the people who talk to you than to you. And if you could speak very slowly to understand it better, thank you.

I'll speak slower, although my habit is to go really fast. So you have been on a very long roller coaster journey. You have said yourself that the highs were very high and the lows were very low. But it was not a two-minute roller coaster or a five-minute roller coaster; this is a 17-year roller coaster. So you've been on this up-down, up-down for 17 years. So what happens after you come out from a roller coaster? You feel a bit unsteady for some time till you find your feet. So I would feel like at this point, other than pushing you to inquire or giving you some spiritual practice or advising you to get some worldly project, I would say just it's okay. Take your time. Get fully steady for some more time.

I know, but I feel like when I'm just wasting time, I just want to do something. I'm fine now, you see? I just want to do something productive and use this energy.

But the advice that is coming from here at the moment, from my heart, is to tell you to just allow yourself to settle because it's been 17 years of up and down. So to take a few months, to take a few weeks, it could not hurt you. And you're not running short of time. You will, as you keep coming to satsang and if you keep improving in this way, then you will come to the objective, which is to discover yourself. That will happen for you in your satsang. That is going to happen, right? But it is much more difficult when you are in those states, you see? Because the tsunami of the mind is so strong and the sensations are so strong that you are not able to hear what I say in those days. I remember some of those conversations, that the words were not being received because there was so much happening there itself. So I would say that you're making very good progress. The tsunami of the mind is very little compared to what it was. Allow it to settle a bit more. There's no rush into getting this because all it takes is a few moments of openness and you are discovering what you are. So take your time, settle. I know you don't want to hear this. You want to hear like, 'What can I do? How can I be productive? I'm fully ready.' But give it a few more weeks is my feeling at the moment.

And then as you keep coming to satsang, what is the highest you can do in the world? The highest you can achieve in the world is to discover your God presence, isn't it? To discover yourself as the pure Self and to discover that this being that is here is the presence of God. That is the highest. So you will achieve that. You don't have to worry about what else you end up achieving as Gemma. That is not important. That is not so important. That's just part of the side show. The most important is your discovery of the truth. So allow yourself to settle as you're doing so beautifully. And when it is time to jump into some worldly thing and some job-type thing or some other type thing, then if something comes from the heart here to advise you in that way as we meet every week, then I'll trust that to also come up then. But for now, I would say just trust the intuition from here that it's okay. Take your time. There's no rush.

So you are telling me to do what I'm doing already? Nothing?

Yeah, that's basically just for a few more weeks. That's the guidance coming from my heart at the moment.

So don't I worry that I just woke up, walk a little bit, eat, walk a little bit, and sleep?

I don't have to go—after meeting Guruji for some time, I was just like that. Okay? Even Guruji has shared that after he went back to Brixton, for two, three years, that was his life.

It sounds just like that. I feel it very hard because it's like, oh, I missed since I was 33 years and now I'm 50—30, 51 next month. And so many years with nothing, actually. I just remember being in the hospital, psychiatric, or depression, or high, or whatever. And it's like, what happened all these years? What happened? What is my life? Now I'm okay, what I'm doing? Nothing. I have to do something, no?

So I will give you my blessing and go ahead when I feel like the push to do something is coming from your heart and not from your mind. Right now, I still feel like the push is still coming from the mind. That is why I'm not giving my full blessings to that. When I hear the fragrance of intuition in the feeling to do something, then you will have my full blessing for that.

Well, probably I'm not doing anything because I don't feel from my heart of doing anything. It's like my heart is not moving.

It's good. So allow yourself to marinate in your heart till it changes its guidance to doing something, okay?

So please pray for her. It doesn't take one year being like this. I think I will die because doing nothing—

I'm always praying for what is the most auspicious, highest for you. Whatever is best. Whatever is best. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, this body is starting to fade a bit, but quickly, quickly...

First of all, I wanted to just give my attendance. So that was the first thing. And second thing is that many times there is this question that when I'm especially when I'm in the satsang, there is this feeling of there's nothing to do. There's nothing—I mean, there's nothing to do. So I mean, and that is right. Let me demystify.

Highest for you, highest food, whatever is best, whatever is best. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, this body is starting to fade a bit, but quickly, quickly.

First of all, I wanted to just give my attendance so that was the first thing. And second thing is that many times there is this question that especially when I'm in the satsang, there is this feeling of there's nothing to do. I mean, there's nothing to do. So, I mean, and that is right.

Let me demystify. In the intellect, we have opposites. So in the intellect, you would have a conclusion that there is something to do. And many ask me, 'So what do I do? What is something to do?' and I may say, 'Just be open and empty' or 'There's nothing to do' based on what resonance I'm feeling from there. But really, whether you pick up the conclusion there is something to do or you pick up the conclusion that there is nothing to do, I am not bothered with either of it, you see, because both are only in the intellect. And what I am speaking of is much beyond the intellect and what it can understand. So you can pick up what you like. Sometimes I give advice on what to do; you can pick up that. Sometimes I say, 'Forget it, there's nothing to do'; you can pick up that. But it will only reach your intellectual playground. But I am working at a level which is beyond that playground.

And one more thing. Many times, especially in let's say at work or, you know, in interacting with people, these concepts of being light and, you know, just accept—all of these come in, you know, especially when there's a situation. So is that a kind of escapism, using concepts, fighting other concepts, you see, or chasing other concepts? Then it could be like a denier escapism.

The openness, the acceptance, the emptiness that I'm speaking—emptiness, it is not describing any sort of position that you have to take with regards to others in the world or something like that. So it may feel like so. I'll give you an example of this. I may say, 'Just fully be open and accept.' Your mind may hear that I'm going to become like a doormat, everybody can do what they want. But that's not what I'm saying. When I'm saying be fully open and empty, I'm just saying inwardly don't rely on any concept as a truth, not even acceptance or openness as a truth in a concept. Fully empty. We empty you of even the notion of emptiness. I wonder how many can hear this. It is empty, but it is not a position 'I am empty.' It is empty of even that position. Just fully transparent, fully innocent like a child, like an infant. Doesn't know empty or full, he doesn't know position or no position, it doesn't know consciousness or awareness or ego. It doesn't know any of that. So that is the level of transparency that I'm talking about.

Now, in that inner emptiness, outwardly you may be shouting at someone or you may be falling at somebody's feet, you see? That we cannot predict. Consciousness is not templatizable in that way. So I'm not talking about how you are in your interpersonal interaction; I'm just talking about your inward position of being empty of all position. Whether from that you become a lion or whether you become a submissive rabbit, that is the will of consciousness that we cannot say already. So don't take it to be like life advice in that way, like 'How should I deal with this person?' or, you know, 'What should I say to this person?' None of it is about that because there is really no template to live in that way. If life was templatizable like that—this is right, this is wrong—then some template would be now universal in the so many years that humans have been on this world. But we try so many templates through philosophy and religion, but none of them are ultimately satisfactory. That is why some people say you have to be like Gandhi or like the categorical imperative, always tell the truth. Some others will say utilitarianism, whatever is best for the most number of people you have to do that. Even the expression of Ram and Krishna were very different from each other. It is not possible to say this is the way to live life. But you can trust God's presence in your heart. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Yes. Hi, Father. I just wanted to thank you and for all the love and support you're giving me. And I'm a newbie and I was not sure if I'll be accepted. And there was intense fear which was coming up inside me that, you know, somehow I'll walk away from you, you know, I will—the mind was creating strategies to, you know, move away from you because it knew that in your presence and in the satsang, you know, it's not available for me to access the dimension of this perceived mind, right? I was in the presence and last two, one of months I've been with you and suddenly today I'm not physically there, you know, I was like getting disturbed and suddenly I realized that the distance is not there, right? It's in the heart, there's no distance. And this thought made me very strong.

Do you realize—you just want to say something about this—do you realize also that last time we were having exactly this conversation, right? And I was saying at what distance do you have to be outside this room to be distant from me? Like, would you have that beautiful satsang also? So now you're testing it. This is a live experiment. And yes, grace is so beautiful because you're seeing now that actually the distance is not true.

Yes. Yeah. And Father, I told that when I came, somehow when I come to satsang, right, I behave like a seven-year-old. My intellectual age is seven years. I can't think beyond that. Okay. And yeah, I'm but then I'm scared that, you know, being a seven-year-old I'll be judged by the adults here, you know, or you know, I'm scared that, you know...

Regardless, then they have a problem. They have to come all out to come down to two years. The ego starts forming around that time, they say. Although my daughter refused to say sorry at one and a half weeks or so, I don't know that age has changed. But usually they say the ego starts forming at two years of age, around that time. Before that we're completely operating on that intuitive intelligence of the heart. So that is the openness and emptiness that all of us are returning to, that innocence.

Yes, Father. So I just—I'm feeling suddenly I feel very confident because there is somebody who's not going to judge you, who's not going to abandon you and who does not have any other intention except for your peace or rather the highest pursuit, right? And with this thought process, I'm suddenly not having any burden in my head and I've stopped thinking. And every time the thought of some weird thoughts come in where I get into depression, my body starts shivering and, you know, that intense fear comes in. I feel like running away from this body when the thought comes in. You know, earlier I used to cry and the pain was really intense, the chemicals in the system was really bad. But now I feel like just holding the hand somewhere, you know, it's invisible, it's not, you know, and then I'm like, it's fine, you know, because I know that I'm like a kid, you know, fine, you know, I'm happy that, you know, I'll not be lost. Even if I'm walking around, I know that the Father's eyes are with me and even if there are so much of crowd, but still, you know, with one click I can just get back to the hand, the invisible hand. And this psychological confidence has made me drop all expectations in the perceived world. When I'm operating, I'm not operating from here, though there's a lot of mind coming and telling me, 'Don't go, don't go to him, do not come to satsang, you'll be thrown out, you know, like you'll be judged, you already cried enough in front of people, and you would be—you're mad.' You know, I'm already on medications, you know, like already I'm thinking that I'm gone mad, you know. And now this safe space, supposed to be safe, but then your mind is telling, 'No, you're not safe here,' right? And you told me that come what may, you just come. And this—the mind is not liking it, of course it's not liking it, you know. It's telling me, 'Just get out, you know, go out, do something, just escape from him, you know, like do something else, you know, you'll be happy, but not this.'

Somehow, there are some things I want to say about this also. So this is very good and loving. Initially what can happen is it can play this card that, 'Oh, Father doesn't love me enough' or 'He's going to abandon me.' So we do a preemptive abandonment even before we get out only. So it's like a different dream that we have, right? Then after some time, what's going to happen is, 'This stuff is getting boring now. I've left, I've come here, he's saying the same stuff, he's always with me anyway, so I have to come to satsang.' So it plays all this kind of—it tries to use boredom and rationality to take you out of satsang. So it will play all of these three. So you remember my guidance, which is: you just come.

Yes. Thank you, Father. Thank you so much for the love and I'm very happy, you know, just that I've come to you and I'm very, very happy, you know. It takes all the stress away from my head. Thank you, Father. Thank you so much.

Okay, let's go to the last one. Aneesh.

Namaste. In fact, it's my first satsang with you. One of my friends I was speaking to yesterday, we have an association of about, I would say, seven, eight years. And I've been listening to Mooji Baba, listening to Joe Dispenza, Eckhart, then I've been in Osho sanyasi for five, seven years. I think you know Meera—Meera was my friend here. I was having a word yesterday with her. And it's so beautiful. Thank you so much. And I've been here, I've been listening to all of—and all who are present, and it's simply so beautiful. I mean, just to be a part of this group and just the share—you know, you are awesome. I mean, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. In fact, I wanted to ask you something. Just a moment, just a moment. Unlikely lost his connection. Guruji, can you hear me now?

I can, yes.

I think, you know, Murphy's Law and thing has to go wrong the moment I was about to ask you something. All of it just went to me. I hope you're not going to be—driving carefully? No, no, no. I'm by the side of the road. I was just—in fact, I was, yeah, I had to do something, I kept doing that. I went to my barber also, got all the stuff done, but yet I am completely with this sangha today and it's been beautiful. You know, I have been in and out of this, you know, had really some awesome experiences. And I had an out-of-body experience also, and those were the days and the moments that I felt, 'Wow, wow, wow, wow.' And then suddenly the very next day I find myself in a deep valley. Someday there's a peak and then there's a valley. And somehow now the latest story of—the latest narrative is that somehow I've been, you know, a very—I have this good boy syndrome, you know. I actually never ever in the worldly affairs I received any love from my father. I mean, he had this tendency to always find faults, find faults, find faults. In fact, you know, I mean, just look at the resistance that the mind is offering. I wrote you a nice message on the chat box and everybody was addressing as Father, so I actually typed 'F-A'—that was an enemy, right, Guruji? Because there is so much of a resistance with this word 'Father.' That is one point. And then somehow I was like, 'Okay, the kind of a father I had, I will never be a father like that' or 'The kind of a husband my father was, I will never be.' So I somehow developed this good boy syndrome that I need to be good, good, good, good. So last 20 years I have this wonderful lady who I'm married to, we have two lovely kids, I have a daughter 17 years old and a son who's 10 years old, and I love them like crazy. I'm a loyal, decent, cool father. But what has happened now is for quite some time I realized that I have kind of, you know, gone...

The kind of a father I had, I will never be a father like that, or the kind of a husband my father was, I will never be. So I somehow developed this 'good boy syndrome'—that I need to be good, good, good, good. For the last 20 years, I have this wonderful lady who I'm married to. We have two lovely kids; I have a daughter 17 years old and a son who's 10 years old, and I love them like crazy. I'm a loyal, decent, cool father. But what has happened now is, for quite some time, I realized that I have kind of gone away from each and everybody in the world. Everyone. My life just revolves around these three people: my wife and my two kids. But somehow what I see now is that, of course, I do understand my kids have their own way, their own friends, own life, and I'm no one to control it. I mean, that's one beautiful thing that I never did. They are them; I'm no one. I'm just a medium. I do understand that. But when it comes to my wife, I'm like, 'Boss, 20 years here. 20 years is not a joke.' And now I can look at her; she has her own life, her own setup, and I somehow feel, you know, that I'm left out. At times when I'm in grace, I'm like, 'Wow, I'm not left out at all. I'm having so much fun by myself.' But then suddenly, under attack, I would feel, 'No, it's all nonsense,' and a certain expectation builds around her that, no, she should be more sensitive towards me. I've been working for the family. Again, the mind concept of comparison—like anything and everything that my kids or wife have ever wanted of me, everything to the best of my potential, with my whole heart, I have tried to do that. But yet, the last six months of the year has been very struggling for me.

Thank you for sharing that. Thank you so much for your openness, your integrity. In the first time you've come up, you've just been so intimate. Part of life seems to have given you this beautiful opportunity where the ones that can be the greatest demands for your time and attention are now finding some space for themselves, and therefore giving some space to you also. And your mind is not liking that, saying, 'I have sacrificed my whole life, 20 years, for them, and now they just left me alone. They don't really think.' But you know that there are many partners, either men or women, who would really want this, who would feel like, 'I wish my partner would give me some space so I can marinate in God, I can listen to some more satsang, and I can find the highest discovery which is possible.' And that is already clear to you because you've been in such a beautiful spiritual environment. It is clear to you that the highest attainment you can have in this life is your true discovery of God's presence and the Absolute, which is aware even of God's presence.

I studied to be a software engineer, so I'll use a metaphor from there. What you are calling a 'bug' is for you to inquire, to come to the discovery of the highest which is possible in the human condition. So just value that and be grateful for those who are around you. Of course, the mind will not like it from time to time because also it is fun. You can know that what you will do with space... there may be many others who, when space is given, may go to the wrong path, may take up drinking, may become confused with other things in life, or the so-called mid-life crisis may happen. But your mind also is smart that way. It knows, 'It's okay, and if he gets free, he's going to dive deeper into God and my supremacy will go.' So don't fall for the mind.

And then I also know that I am being resentful for no reason. And then there is this constant hammering: 'I know so much, I have experienced so much, and I am here and I am there,' and yet I am caught in between. And then I'm like telling myself, 'What are you doing, man? I'm in so much of a time waste here for what?'

I tell you very openly and honestly: the one that tries to use spirituality or tries to use the world for its own happiness, that one is going to get very, very squeezed in this life. So the one that says, 'I have experienced Isness and also I have experienced the world,' you see, that one is which one? It's not Isness, you see. So the one that tries to have one foot—I use this metaphor—that tries to board a flight, the Isness which is the reality flight, but it wants to keep one foot on the ground also, what is going to happen? It is going to get stretched out. It is going to get squeezed. So this is auspicious, that you are realizing that this identity is uninhabitable now. You cannot inhabit it because your longing is pushing you deeper into Isness, into God. But what is trying to happen is that there is like an individual idea that you may have about yourself which tries to use Isness and spiritual experiences and say, 'So what is the point of all of this? Okay, I've had this also, but how is it benefiting me?' It is not meant to benefit you, because that 'you' is not you, you see.

So explore the reality of this one, whether it is true in the first place. Who wants to get what out of their spiritual experiences? When I'm in that juice, in that depth, then I'm so full of flower, I am love. I mean, people around me... I want to be around people. I don't like to be alone. And then I hear spirituality is all about being alone. And why would I... I just miss being around with people with whom I can share my joy and my love.

So what happens in life? It is an unfortunate-fortunate rule of life that what we chase runs from us, and when we don't chase it, it runs towards us. That's how life functions in every single dimension of it. You have noticed that as well. So the minute you say, 'I want to have more of this,' that seems to get more and more elusive. The minute you say, 'I am chill, I'm here now, anything if it wants to come it can come, if it doesn't...' Truly, you can't use it as a tactic to get it, but truly when you have that, then you'll see that everything is available, you see. Now you know, like here in my presence, I'm noticing in the divinity that I experience here, there's so much love, there's so much contentment, there's so much joy. Like if I was to make slices and give to all of you and big, big talks, it would not run out. Because I'm not chasing any of it.

So what I would request you, implore you, advise you is: before you get into what you should do and what should happen in your life, fully examine who you are. Because the strategy for a rabbit will be different, the strategy for a giraffe will be different, and the strategy for a lion will be different. Now, without concluding which one of these you are, if you say, 'Should I eat grass or should I eat a deer?' then it's not going to make sense. So first determine—because you've had depth of spiritual insight, that's why you have the ears to hear what I'm saying—first determine what is your reality and then see if any positions are valid from that perspective. So before you decide whether you want to be with a lot more people or you should be in a cave, you have to determine what you are, because the answer will depend on that.

Can I ask one more question? That is... I mean, I don't know, it's your presence and the grace that I'm able to ask this question. Normally I am very... I come from a very orthodox family when it comes to talking about sex and sexuality and stuff like that. You know, I mean, I always had this dream that I wanted to grow up as soon as possible and get married and be a one-woman guy, which still today I am. Now, at the same time, my wife, she's also very spiritual, but somehow slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, you know, what I realize in her practices, she's quite deep also and she's not very inclined towards the physical pleasures or sexuality. Now, I somehow am, and she sees it as kind of crazy. She tells me, 'You know, why are you trying to pester me?' On one hand, I feel that, yes, that part of... I don't know what to call it, sex vasana or what to call it or address, because that gives a whole different narrative to all the things. But yes, that part of me is still there. I would still love to do it, yet I would love to do it with my wife and nobody else, because I have this very fixed mindset around it. And it's not that for me sex is a very intimate thing; it's about merging and melting. It's not about just two physical bodies and stuff like that.

There is no like guideline or template that you can make and say, 'This is the right thing you can do, this is wrong.' So what can we trust then? I feel like, 'Oh, then am I supposed to just be lost then? If there's no right or wrong, then how am I...?' So I would advise you that you keep your eye on the highest goal, like I am showing you, and then follow in terms of worldly things, follow your heart moment to moment. Follow your heart. For me, sex is neither special nor shameful. In the world's culture, we made it that way. In some cultures, like the west, the so-called west, it can seem like it's a very special thing and people are just constantly talking about it. In some other cultures, we've made it a big shame, like if you talk about sex, if you even think about sex, then you're a bad person or something like that. But it's neither of these things. It's just part of the human condition. You feel hungry when you're not eating food; you will feel like having physical relationships when you don't get those. Nothing to be taboo or something very special. So it is just a normal part of life.

So as you are trusting this—and I feel like you're trusting this in many aspects of your life—in the same way, it is based on this aspect you will find your guidance, you will find your answers with that view. Because I don't want to give you a template and say, 'No, no, it's okay, just do whatever you want,' because that can be misunderstood. I also don't want to tell you, 'No, no, but it has to be only this way, you can't have an open marriage,' all those things are very bad or something like that. I'm not judgmental about any of that stuff either, right? So, but there is no real answer-answer, because that answer then would be like the previous one also, would be then general knowledge and then everybody would follow that. Because there is no template that you can follow like that, you just have to keep your eye on the main road, right, which is God, and then trust God's presence. Like, be in touch with my own being, be focused on finding my own reality, and just flowing with whatever comes moment to moment.

Thank you so, so, so very much and I love you. I don't have this feeling that I'm talking to you for the first time. I'm awesome. I just love you.

Thank you so much. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today.