If You Are Truly Open and Empty, Prayer Is Easy - 22nd April 2024

Open and empty, yeah. When we are open and empty, then we allow ourselves to be intuitive, yes. And true self-knowledge is available only intuitively, only because it is beyond perception and beyond any sort of conceptualization. Now, what is this open and empty, and how do we know that we are really being open and empty? Because it's very easy for the mind to come and tell us, 'Yeah, you're fine, you are not suffering or you were not getting attached to any thought, so you must have been open and empty,' you know? But how do we really check whether we are open and empty without relying on the report from the mind?

One simple tool is to see whether did something change for me between my sleep and the waking, in the sense that the waking state arises—you can't help it, you see, it has to come. Oh well, it seems like it has to come. But do I get involved in the waking state, or am I the same way as I'm asleep during the waking state as well? That is a beautiful way to check, because often we have said that in the recognition of ourself as pure awareness, it is the recognition of knowing what we are that we know in our sleep state, you see. But to recognize that in our waking state, you see, and the recognition of that in the waking state cannot happen if you are grasping anything in the waking state through the narrative of the mind, isn't it?

So that you have to check for yourself. Is your—again, I'm using terms that I don't really like—is your state inwardly the same as how you are when you are asleep? In the absence of perception, you cannot grasp. There's nothing to grasp at. The infrastructure to grasp, which is the presence of being itself, is not there. But now the presence of being is there and the world appearance is there. What is your state? Are you just like you were when you were asleep? And I don't mean outwardly, okay? I'm not saying, 'Oh, you know, the world is there but I'm asleep.' Not like that. The world is there, but I am untouched. Yes, I remain untouched by this world. I am empty to the world. It is as good existing as it is as good non-existent.

So in that state, we are in the true non-grasping that the Buddha talked about. Truly not grasping at anything, truly open and empty. So for most of us, I can say that it may be very, very difficult to be like that throughout the day. So then what is the tool that we can use, especially because we are more attracted to the Gana Marga, which is the path of knowledge, this true path of self-knowledge? Then the inquiry can be very useful. So the minute we find ourselves grasping at things, we ask ourselves, 'Who am I?' Or the mind says, 'You must like this, you must do this, you must not do that,' you can say, 'But who is this?'

In the inquiry, it brings us to the open and empty. Sometimes the pointer itself, 'open and empty,' is a reminder. So when we are finding ourselves grasping, then we say, 'Oh no, open and empty.' So we allow ourselves to return to as we were in the sleep state. And I hope you're not misunderstanding what I mean by sleep state. The point is not to come to the absence of perception, you see. But how you are—can you be troubled in the deep sleep state, not dream state? Can you be troubled? You can't be troubled because there is nothing to grasp at, you see. So to be free and open and empty in the world means we are not grasping at the world even though the world appears. So we remain just like we are in sleep state. That is the most peaceful thing.

So in the world, Maya's design is the other way around. Maya says if you grasp more, you will get more and you will feel better, you will rise, you will improve, you will achieve your goals, you see, and you'll be happier. But what is our experience? The more we let go, the better off we are. And the ultimate letting go is the sleep state, deep sleep state. So the idea is to be like that in a let-go state, which is a state of pure acceptance. So we can inquire, we can remind ourselves to remain open and empty, you can remind yourself to remain with the presence of being—that can be your anchor as well. So you can anchor yourself to this being and be unattached to the world.

So really the question is, if we are truly drawn to this path, then when we look at our life and we look at our day, we should be able to say that, 'Yeah, the waking state came, but I remain untouched by it.' Or at least when I use the tools, you see, then I find that predominantly my day is spent not in a craving, not in a grasping sort of mode. So if that is fine, then that is as good as a prayer, because the prayer also progresses into this quiet prayer, which is the open and empty, which is wordless, you see. So after a while, even the ajapa japa may stop and you're just okay. So your prayer doesn't stop. That's in fact the only way to be in unceasing prayer.

Otherwise, in the play of Maya, we can never come to an unceasing prayer if it is going to always be words, even if the words are ajapa, you see, because that is also dependent on our attention in some way. And Maya is such a trickster that she will pull all our attention in various ways. So even to come to unceasing prayer, we must come to, we will come to a quiet, a wordless prayer, which is very similar to the open and empty, you see. So what you should look at is remove the worry about progress. Don't worry about whether you're progressing and others are doing it well or badly, but what allows you to remain more in God's light, more in God's love, more in God's insight?

Are you living your day naturally in pure self-knowledge as pure awareness, or are you living most of the day identified as a person, but in the few moments that you remind yourself you say, 'Yes, yes, I'm awareness,' so I come back into that, and the mind says yes? So that is the key. That is the key, and that only you can see. Even I cannot tell you. I'm not that accomplished teacher or something like that, so I cannot tell you how you are spending your day. That you have to check for yourselves. So this is the spiritual arsenal that is on offer to you. Which tool you're going to use is up to you, and you will be guided by your heart to use it more and more. But for that, you really have to be able to check for yourself and say, 'Okay, how is my time actually being spent?'

You see, because I have gone hoarse in the last many, many months saying that this whole game is about time. This whole game is about time. Every moment you can hand it over to the mind, or you can be with God. Mind, God, mind, God, you see? Every moment is like that. So obviously it doesn't have to be said that our job is to spend all our time with Him. And when we get lost, we become mental. So it should never be felt that our job is to balance our time between our mind and our heart. So we must never feel that in any way our job is to try and balance this out, you see. We must be like this also, we must be like that also.

If God cannot give it to you, then it is not like... the very definition of goodness is whether it comes from God, you see. If something is good in our life, it must come from God, you see. Otherwise, we are just fooling ourselves. And this is the whole primal problem of living in our own way, living in our own will, you see. So our job primarily is to be in the eternal discipleship of the Atma within, which will show you the fruit of Gana and it will show you how to be a Bhakta, you see. Both it can guide you about. But our job is: how do we get to that point? And Maya will try to... this whole play will try to avoid you getting there.

Are you spending most of your day as if the state is not changed from sleep state to waking state, Father? And most of the day, that is the prayer also. And also that through inquiry I'm trying to be open and empty as much as possible. So yeah.

Now what happens is that for most, this—to be naturally empty in this way, or even to be naturally inquiring in this way and to remain empty like this—is not easy. But you've been in satsang long enough. But generally speaking, it's not an easy way for most to follow, especially if you've not spent years in inquiry. So then what happens is that God in His kindness has given us... so to be in this complete un-grasping, you see, openness, to be in this natural presence of God without grasping at anything, that may seem a bit—not a bit, but very difficult for most.

So God in His mercy has said, 'Wherever you place Me in your being, I can become your anchor in that way.' So if you connect with Me, then I can be your anchor, and that anchor will help you. It is the safe grasping. Now, what do we mean by anchor? Grasping is suffering, Buddha has told us. But for most people, it is not easy, maybe not possible at the state they're in, to remain in a natural un-grasping sort of state. Then God has recognized this—I'm of course creating the narrative, but let's look at it as if God has recognized this and said, 'Okay, now this is too difficult for these children to just be naturally open and empty. So what is this safety, safe grasping that...'

It is the safe grasping. Now, what do we mean by anchor? Grasping is suffering, Buddha has told us. But for most people, it is not easy, maybe not possible at the state they are in, to remain in a natural, ungrasping sort of state. Then God has recognized this—I am, of course, creating the narrative, but let's look at it as if God has recognized this and said, 'Okay, now this is too difficult for these children to just be naturally open and empty. So, what is this safe grasping that can be provided to them?' And that is what we call the anchors. When we say in satsang, 'This can anchor you,' you see.

Now, some very few have not gone beyond the world. Only the world seems real. They're not able to look at their mind; they're not able to focus it; they're not able to bring their attention to even the mind, only the world. So, what can they hang on to then? Love? No, but they are not even able to go to their mind, so to go to the feeling, which is even subtler than that, may be very difficult. So for them, they can go to places of worship. They can have a temple in their house. They can just find a way to use the body to bow down to God, do prostrations, do Surya Namaskar, do these yoga-type things to create connection at that layer of that existence. And when you start over there, it starts to seep into the rest of your being. So you start like that. If you're used to that which is very gross, you see, and you're not used to subtlety yet, then that's not a bad way to start, and that can become an anchor.

Then it can become subtler. We may use our breaths as the anchor. Just that, even with attention to just our breaths, we can be anchored in that. Remember, the point is to be like we are asleep, you see, while fully tasting the world. So don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Like you are unattached in your deep sleep state, how to be unattached in the waking state? That is the point, isn't it? That when we are open and empty in this way, does God's presence, the spirit within, the Atma within, reveal itself? So, so very direct. Just be open and empty.

Maybe there's a rare one who may come to satsang one day, I say, 'Just be open and empty,' and they say, 'Done.' But that's going to be very, very rare. Then they will need to use the inquiry. They will need to use the anchor of the presence within. But suppose that their temperament is not that subtle yet; it is still gross. Then anchor yourself through physical means. Surround yourselves—you have beautiful quotes, you have photos, whatever reminders you can place. Because you take this to be very real right now. For those ones who take this realm to be very real right now, and the talk of the reality within seems absurd and strange for them, then in this realm, have beautiful reminders of God and start like that. That itself will bless you and it will start seeping into you.

And that seeping in maybe that you may start to use your breath as an anchor. See, so many sages have told us, with every breath, pray. Which means that with every breath you can pray. So they're not just saying metaphorically; they're not just saying, 'Oh, but as much as you...' They are saying that also, but you can use the breath as your anchor for the prayer, for the remembrance of God. So this remembrance attracts the possibility of being in the presence. So when you say with your breath you do your prayers, then it seems easier than trying to do it without the anchor of the breath. At least initially, you use it that way. Breathing in, breathing out. Breathing in, breathing out. So then you're not grasping at the world; you're grasping at the safety of God's name itself, using your breath as the anchor.

Remember, the goal is still the same. We are not to grasp at things of the world. We are not to get involved in Maya. We are only to be involved in the Atma within, and the Atma is God's presence. So, how to? Just like if you remember a very sweet apple, then you start getting that remembrance—it will bring you imagery about it, it will almost make you feel like the presence of that apple is with you. In the same way, when you remember God, that is not really different from God Himself. So you may use the breath like that.

Then it may get subtler after a while. You may feel like you're not breathing, or it may feel like breath has become very subtle, so you can't really hold on to it. You can't really time your prayer with the breath. So then you're just chanting it in the mind. You are repeating the words. They seem like they are thoughts, but they are actually safety, the safe space. So you're chanting the name of God. So first you were using the body, then you were using the breath, then you are using the mind. And when you use the body, you could also use your tongue, you could use your lips. See, because before even the breath, many may find that just to say it like that—'Lord, incarnation of God, have mercy on me, bless my heart, the light of Atma'—see, if you have the words in your lips, on your tongue, then it can seem like the difficulty is not that difficult. It's easier. So you may start with the body in that way as well, then breath, then using it inwardly.

So when you're using it with the breath and with the mind, then it's starting to become an inward prayer, you see. An inner prayer which may become subtler and subtler. So once it comes to the mind, initially it'll seem like you're pushing a truck. It seems resisting. The mind is fighting it, it is distracting you. You're thinking of God, but it is giving you some sort of vile nonsense notions, you see, and trying to distract you with all kinds of stupidity. So that may happen. So we have to power through at that stage. We just have to go through it. Have faith that the greatest sages have advised us to use this method, so we must use it. So we go through with that.

And after a while it becomes—and I won't say what that 'while' is, and I'm asking all of you not to jump into things where you're just jumping too fast thinking that, 'Oh, this is happening, this is happening.' So let's say after two years, it's just now becoming natural. Very just sitting and you can hear in the mind the prayer is going on: 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.' Which is, you're not doing it; it is happening.

Then it goes to our head and we have all these... we have to push through when it goes to our head and we have these resistances. At that point, must we continue in our head or must we chant?

Yes, if it is not possible, use your lips, use your breath, use whatever tools you know, whether it's happening or it's not happening. So we must never get into any pride, you see. You will never get into any pride and say, 'No, no, I don't chant outwardly, I don't use a mala.' We will never get into all that. Pride is not necessary. It's not a linear thing. It'll vary from day to day. It'll vary from your life situation, life circumstances, you see, what is happening, how busy you are.

So when we are doing this in a way, then there may be a side question which may come: 'Ananta, to chant the whole prayer that you've given in the ideas seems almost impossible because I'm listening in the meeting, I'm participating. How do I stay with all of that?' So if you feel like it is impossible, then do the last part of it. So if you're doing Ram, then say, 'Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram,' inwardly. You could go on like that. You may say, 'Even that is difficult because actually, you know, I'm speaking in the meeting, I'm the one who's driving the meeting, so how can I do that?' And say, 'Okay, what is that?' So every couple of minutes, inwardly can you say, 'Ram'? Maybe you just hold something in your hand which reminds you, it doesn't seem too weird to those around you, see. So find a way to remind yourself every few minutes to return to that. So every time you say Ram, or you say Jesus, or you say Krishna, you return to the same emptiness that we've been talking about.

So like that, then in the mind itself, after some time it will become an Ajapa Japa, which means that it doesn't need that forcing, see. It is just going on itself and it seems like such a relief. You see how the burden is off. When I say it becomes a Japa, it doesn't mean that it becomes like that forever. Many times you again will have to start the momentum. You will have to, if you've been involved in some things where you forgot about God for a few hours or something like that, it may feel like you lost it, you see. So don't lose hope, don't lose heart. Just start in whatever you can do, then it'll return. If that is His grace, it'll return like that.

Then what will happen is that this Ajapa Japa in the mind will drop into your heart. So even if it seems like you are praying, it will seem like you're praying in the heart, like you're in front of the altar in your heart, in front of God's presence in your heart, and you're bowed down in devotion and you're praying. No visualization, just that the feeling will be like that, that you are in your heart temple and you're praying over there. It may seem like you are praying, and after a while—and I don't know how many years, but after a few years—this prayer will start naturally happening in the heart itself. So the Atma loves to pray, and this prayer will happen by the Atma itself within the deepest core of our being. You notice the prayer happening, and this then becomes the prayer of the heart accompanied by so much love.

Okay, deeply anchored to this. And this way, then you come to a point where you just remain like that in the heart, but no words are felt. It becomes the wordless prayer, the prayer of quiet. You become subtle enough to remain like that. You become subtle enough at this point to remain like that in God's presence. And then the same unity that you experience at the peak of self-knowledge in the inquiry, the sheer oneness from which Advaita gets its name, is your living experience through the prayer as well. There all Gyana is available, the deepest Bhakti is available. The Gyana path to come to this, all Bhakti is available in the Gyana path when you come to this. And when in the Bhakti path you come to this, then all Gyana is available.

Now, because I laid it out in this way, in the Bhakti way, there may be many, many steps which may reveal themselves to you later. With the explanation, it may sound like, 'But then why go through all this? I can just be open and empty like this.' He's saying the prayer of quiet becomes after so many years, but I can be open and empty right now. Yeah, so this is what you have to notice for yourself and be true to yourself, yes, you see. And many of you may find it easier because you have been in satsang inquiring for many years. But don't fool yourself at all in this, because you are only fooling yourself. So I'm not saying that whatever conclusion you make, you will be fooling yourself, but if you're just fooling yourself, then you're only fooling yourself. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter what I feel, what I think. It doesn't matter what your Sangha feels, whether they feel like you're lost or they feel like you're very elevated. None of that matters. What matters is your own being with God, isn't it?

Usually in the world, people say that the first path is much more difficult and takes much longer, although in the way that I've described it, this seems much more because I'm saying even to settle as an Ajapa Japa in your mind, it'll take a couple of years. So that you have to follow your heart and see how you are guided in that way. Mostly it is said in the world that the path of Bhakti is much easier than the path of Gyana.

Father, really, it's so beautiful, beautifully explained, you know, the whole process. And I feel there's... it's not just the inquiry, I'm sure there's so much love in the heart which I feel, Father, that the devotion just happens. You know, like devotion to you, to the forms whom I resonate with, you know, so it just happens. The only question was that I'm unable to do like a set prayer like you have recommended to us, you know, that...

In the world, the path of Bhakti is much easier than the path of Gyan. Father, for really, it's so beautifully explained, you know, the whole process. And I feel there's—it's not just the inquiry—I'm sure there's so much love in the heart which I feel, Father, that the devotion just happens. Devotion to you, to the forms whom I resonate with, you know? So it just happens. The only question was that I'm unable to do like a set prayer, like you have recommended to us, you know? That's the only...

What you could do is you could experiment with it. So, one is that you know in your heart that you don't need it. Second is that you're unable to do it. So, that is the tricky set of words. If anybody is open and empty, they will not have trouble doing the prayer; it will only seem easier. See, open and empty like that—just being empty with all the mind resistance, all the temptations of the world coming, everything is coming, but unsupported you are able to remain open and empty. That is very beautiful. So it's almost anchorless, you are able to be like that.

So for such a one, to be able to say the full prayer is just like a walk in the park because it's so supportive, you see? It's like you were flying, but now your mother eagle is carrying you because it seems right. For one who can just be open and empty naturally through the day, to spend the day in chanting a mantra is very, very easy, you see? Because the mantra then is the anchor. So, to be empty anchorless versus just being with the anchor—it's like that.

So that is why, just check. This is one tool to experiment. Say, 'Okay, my path is to be open and empty, but for the next one hour, I will pray to God.' It couldn't hurt, isn't it? It can only help. So in the next one hour, I notice what happens. I notice what happens. And if I find myself getting very distracted by mind constructs, I get very taken by them, I start grasping onto them, you see? Then start really being more vigilant in your openness, in your emptiness. Because what may be happening is we are thinking we're open and empty, but suddenly: 'What do I do about that work thing? What do I do about that relationship? Should I call him? Should I call...?' Like that, you know? Quietly it may be happening like that and we are just buying into some of it subtly, subtly. But you're not like suffering, suffering, so you may feel like, 'Oh, we are open.'

But now you've created trouble for yourself. You're saying, 'I'm just going to do Ram Ram for the next one hour.' After five minutes, if you find yourself thinking about some email, some message, some work, some this thing, then know that that is happening to you when you're open and empty as well, but you're just not noticing it because there's no contrast, you see? So it's just you're doing that and subtly you may be buying it, or hopefully you're letting go of most of it. But you're buying it when you have the anchor, then there are high chances that you're buying it when you don't have the anchor as well. See? So that is the way to really check for yourself, to really check.

So just say, maybe you can say a day or maybe you can say one hour. Just one hour: 'I will just be in the prayer.' And if you're truly open and empty, then prayer is easy, isn't it? It can't get in your way. But this is a good test for our emptiness. This is a good test for our true openness. What does the mind want to do? It wants to fool us, no?

Yeah, yeah. 'You're with God only.' And may it be so, of course.

My wish is, of course, that may it always be so for all of you. But we have to be careful of the tricks.

I think it's clear. Thank you so much, because I really had this—I hope that I'm not taking any kind of an arrogant position for this, because I know the inquiry has given you some tools to check on that first.

Absolutely. Are you like you are when you are in sleep state, except the world is appearing? This body is also moving in this world, you see? Activity is happening in this world, but you're not taking yourself to be the body. You're not taking yourself to be the mind. You're like—it makes no difference whether you are asleep, whether you are awake. You're basically dead to the world, but not the body being dead to the world, see?

Anytime when I say this, people may feel like I'm saying, 'Ah, you are dead to the world, you don't care.' Not that kind of—that is to give it the meaning of meaninglessness. What I'm saying is that absence of meaning either way, absence of sense-making either way—either meaningfulness or meaninglessness—is when your light is fully shining and you're truly perceiving this movie moment to moment, you see? But your state inwardly is as if there's no difference in you whether you are asleep or awake. The light turns on, the light of Consciousness, you see, presents all this movie, but you remain the untouched witness of all of this. The light goes off, you remain the untouched witness of the absence of the light, of the absence of perception, of the absence of the universe. But for you, nothing has changed. Okay? That is true open and empty, like that.

That is one test. Second test I've told you, which seems maybe more practical, which is to take one hour and say, 'Okay, I will just, whatever come what may, I will be with this prayer' and see what happens, whether you get caught up in some mental stuff. Start with that. Yeah, it's good. So it's very good. It's a very good question. We must always keep questioning this: 'Am I just being arrogant? Am I just being caught up in some pride?' This is a constant question I keep asking as well here. And I noticed that I'm so full of prayer, so there's no harm in asking that.

This was exactly the question, Father, that since the goal of prayer or inquiry is the same, then why prayer? You know, for me that was a question.

Because of your temperament. So for others who are more—why sit and ask 'Who am I?' rather say 'Ram Ram.' So it all depends on that temperament. The only thing to be careful about in both cases is that we are not getting stuck in some mental position. That's all.

I have two kids who are five and nine, and they're growing up in a very multicultural, multi-religious environment. I want to give them a prayer and an understanding of God, but I'm struggling with a lot of the constructs of traditional religion and too much of the dogma. What's a nice way, or what's a simple and beautiful way to explain to them the concept of God or give them a prayer? Because all of these thoughts are too much, even though I do feel like the younger they are, the purer they are, the closer they are to God in some way. I feel like there's something I want to create inside of them and I'm not sure how to do it.

So at five and nine, do they do any sort of like, before sleeping, some bedtime prayer, something? Or just nothing right now?

And it's fine. They do some of the things that their grandmother has taught them, which are very traditional Catholic prayers. But I don't think they comprehend it. I don't think they understand it. I don't think they feel it. They're not very keen on doing it. I'm finding I'm a little averse to some of the things that I can't comprehend, so I make them do this whole gratitude thing instead, where I'm like, 'Thank you for this, thank you for that, thank you for this.' So I feel like it's very confused for them. I don't know how to give it to them.

In a way, Grandmother has given them some—you said Catholic prayer. Okay. What is it? Which one is it? Do you know what it's all about?

It's about being a sinner and I—I don't want to comment too much on it, but it's very much about how we're sinful and this...

Like in my prayer also, the sinner is there. I don't know if you heard the—I shared the few satsangs that I shared—why it is important, that recognition of what sin is, and why is it important, that recognition of sin. And it's there in all cultures except New Age spirituality. So, okay, so how do these kids start? Remove the reference to sinning, start like that. But like, what kind of a prayer can I give them? What I mean, or should I say—I'm just wondering if there's a prayer that's straight to God without a religious construct for it. So, not necessarily Christian or Hindu.

What is the—before we come to that, let's explore a few things together. So, what is the difference between religion and spirituality?

To me, it's just connection, spark of source inside, right? That's all I want to give them. I mean, in my current state, that's what I believe is that there's source and then there's a spark of source inside of us and that journey is to find and connect.

So isn't that the same as God and Atma? Like, with all to say the same as God and Holy Spirit?

Yes, but I feel like I grew up thinking of it as an external person. You pray through a person to a God. It all felt very outside of me. It's only at this age that I've been able to understand it's inside of me and that that's where I need to form the connection. I want—if that's true—I want to give that to them earlier rather than spending their whole lives thinking it's outside of them.

You're not saying that you want them to like, grow up agnostic or something?

I want them to grow up with a love for God, but just not feeling like it's outside of them. Like that it's inside of them and that's the only connection. It doesn't matter if it's Hindu or Christian or Muslim. I don't want those constructs.

And just feel free with me because, you know, this—what happened in this life was that my mother was very spiritual and very religious when I was young. So I started off my life very religious. Then what happened is somewhere along the way, maybe at seven or eight or something like that, I just started questioning all this religion. And there were some things happening in life and things like that, so I just felt like, 'I can't believe in this God thing. It doesn't work.' So from eight to twenty-three, twenty-four, I was a complete atheist. Like an active atheist. I used to say God is for losers only, for stupid people who have this notion. So I've been there.

And then the exploration into the nature of my own self led me to a discovery of God, like you're saying—the God which is, whose presence is within and who is beyond any conceptualization. That is what is discovered here as well. So I'm not at all going to judge whatever position we've taken with respect to God, because I've been through that whole spectrum up and down.

Having said that, I have to say that some of these words like Jesus or Ram or Krishna—our rational mind doesn't want to accept it, but they have a certain charge. They have a certain charge in the sense you say 'Ram' like once, or you say 'Jesus' once with even the slightest devotion, see, something is different about it. See, something is different about it versus if you were just to use some term which sort of alluded to that but was not—I don't know why. You just said 'God.' God is good. God is good. God. For many years before I came to Guruji and this, so many years when I used to feel shaken, I used to just say 'God.' It used to have that sense of presence and reassurance that He's there. It works. God is fine. But as opposed to if you were to say 'Source' or, you know, 'Light.'

So I'm just saying that we cannot figure out how it works and why it works like that, but just after so many years of experimenting, of trying so many different ways, we realize that there are some spiritually charged words. Like 'God' is of course very, very beautiful. I love the name of God being God itself. Very beautiful. So as long as we are fine with at least God, or God is good enough for us, we can then see. As a parent, we have to be fully authentic to our experience as well. Like, the kids have a very strong nose for it. So if I tell my kids, 'Oh, do the Hanuman Chalisa,' but I've never done it, they'll know that, 'Oh, this man is just, you know, preaching, but he has not got any actual experience himself,' you see? So it depends a lot on your own construct, how you can communicate with them, how in what way do you want to guide them. So what I'm getting so far is that...

God is good enough for us so we can then see. As a parent, we have to be fully authentic to our experience as well, like the kids have a very strong nose for it. So if I tell my kids, 'Oh, do the Hanuman Chalisa,' but I've never done it, they'll know that, 'Oh, this man is just, you know, preaching, but he has not got any actual experience himself,' you see? So it depends a lot on your own construct, how you can communicate with them, and in what way do you want to guide them.

So what I'm getting so far is that we want a prayer to God without any reference to any sort of personification. Is that correct? Yeah, God is fine, absolutely, like God, but without any Jesus or Ram? I feel like they're having conversations in school and she's like, 'Are we Christian? Are we Hindu?' and I'm like, 'It doesn't matter, we all love one God.' And I would ideally like them to grow up with that at this stage, but I don't know how to teach them a prayer then. What's a good format for a young child?

What about the kids who went to convent? They don't usually like this one because they were forced to do it, but it's a beautiful prayer, which is the 'Make Me a Channel of Your Peace,' right? And it has no sort of sin or...

It's a bit too long for the five-year-old one.

You just read portions. That's a beautiful one. What do you think? 'Make me a channel of Your peace, an instrument of Your peace. Where there is hatred, let me bring Your love.'

And is it better to learn one thing and keep repeating it, or is it like a format? I'm wondering if it's a format. What I guess my mom taught me and what I've traditionally done is you start with thanks, like a lot of gratitude for what is, and then you go into praying for people who you are thinking about and people you love and people in pain, etc., etc. Is it better to just kind of repeat one thing over and again, or is it better to keep it live and dynamic every day where you're thinking and talking about what you've been through?

I feel like there must be like a constant part so it becomes natural for us, it becomes inbuilt in some way. And there must be a convenient part or communication part where you're open to sharing whatever is in your heart and you're listening. Most of us forget the listening part. We just do the prayer part, and then we may say something to God, but we don't feel like we should listen as well. So I feel like if you can even start with one paragraph and then tell them, 'Just say whatever is in your heart. If something is bothering you, or just tell God you love Him,' you know, something like that. Just bow down in love to God and then for two or three minutes just listen if your heart is saying something. See what message is coming to you from God. That would be a very beautiful way to start, and then these things organically develop very well. This can be the starting momentum, and then based on how they are taking to it, we can help them more and more. This will be a good way to start.

So we talked about all the various levels or layers at which prayer can happen, but at the simplest level, just the fact that the remembrance of God is there, that is a prerequisite. Besides that, whether that remembrance is full of words or empty of words, all that the prayer itself teaches us how to do. But that remembrance of His presence, of His being in satsang, in your presence, that's so powerful that it becomes undoubtedly clear that only the Self is here and that only the Self is the sensations of the body. And all the sensory perceptions are only being perceived by the Self. So it becomes so clear. And so, first of all, just for that miraculous realization, deep gratitude.

I just want to also just ask: going out of the setting, then again the attachment and grip of Maya and personification starts. So do you have any—I mean, I know the toolkit to keep praying and doing inquiry—but anything else? Because you can see here that the individualization is a falsehood. You can see that because in everything, since you can perceive the presence everywhere, the perceiver is only everywhere effectively. It's just one undivided. But how to make this now persistent? I just want to get your blessings and guidance. I don't know, because it's again, only the Self that can do it. Because you know, now this person identity is again just something, an object in the Self. So the Self has got to realize that it's got to break the attachment again. Now, again, I can see it here, but it only comes in satsang and then again fades. Thank you.

So what to do to make it persistent? And you're right that in a way, all of this, all the tools in satsang, are for that. So this inquiry, 'Who am I?', loving God deeply, faith, humility, prayer, obedience to only be moved by Him—so that is the surrender. All this is so that we don't get caught in the misidentification again. As far as the Self needing to do it, it depends on in what way we mean. So the Self in its reality is the unchanging pure awareness itself, the Nirguna Brahman. This Self, when it plays in its Saguna form, when it plays as if it is Saguna, then creates this Maya, this Leela, in its own light on its own screen. In which then this Consciousness, which is the Saguna aspect of Brahman itself, plays as if it is a personal 'I am something.' It plays as if it is Atma, and then the Atma plays as if it is a body-mind.

But in all of this, nothing has changed. Nothing has gone out of awareness, nothing can ever come into awareness. Nothing has changed for the Self. So satsang is Consciousness speaking with Consciousness, which is the Saguna aspect reminding itself that actually it is in reality awareness. So that which we take ourselves to be in that moment—if we take ourselves just to be Consciousness, then to bring things to the light of Consciousness itself is the doing in Consciousness. But if we take ourselves to be the doer of our activity, of any action at all, then we must exhaust that doership in the doing of inquiry, in the doing of prayer, in whatever resonates with us. Because in the exhaustion of that individual will, in the exhaustion of that notion of agency, you see, then when will is gone truly, we don't get caught in the notions that 'I am not the doer.' Because that is a very dangerous notion, because we are still referring to ourselves as the false one.

Like I was asking a child the other day that said, 'But I cannot do, I am not the doer.' Then who is this 'I' who is not the doer? Is it? And if it is not the true one, then why are you referring to yourself as that 'I'? So now you have still taken the false one to be you, but you're saying that this false one is me but it does not have the power to do. And if that comes in the form of a surrender, then it is auspicious. But otherwise, it comes in a sort of like a defense against spiritual practice or spiritual guidance being given by the Master. So it can just come like that: 'Oh, he's saying pray all the time, but really I'm not the doer, so I'm not going to pray.' Get it? That position 'I'm not going to pray' is also doership. Or 'I'm going to do something else, I'm just going to live my life as it is.' It's still all doership, but it just becomes a defense against inquiry, a defense against praying. So we must be careful about that one.

So if you still feel like, 'I can go online and check my email, I can book some tickets, I can have lunch and dinner,' then I can inquire and I can pray. If that is really gone, then you are like an Avadhuta anyway, then it is persistent anyway, you see? An Avadhuta is not feeling like they're doing; they're just being moved by Grace, they are being moved by Consciousness itself. So then there is nothing left to do. But if we feel like the reality of what I am is not persistent, then that impersistence comes with doership. So we cannot say that, 'Oh, it is not persistent, but I don't take myself to be the doer.' That cannot be true, because when you don't really take yourself to be the doer, you are seeing yourself as pure awareness itself or the light of Consciousness itself. So when we are caught up, then use that false doership to make yourself empty of doership.

So while you just asked, something came to me to remind you that Bhagavan has told us that as long as we can make the effort, we must make the effort, you see? And then you will recognize one day that all that effort was just Grace. But if you feel like, 'I can pick up a glass, if I can ask a question,' then I can also ask 'Who am I?' Then I can also say 'Ram Ram.'

Father, my question was on when we're taking ourselves to be the doer and we're in satsang. What happened to me for sure is that I had a certain life which was very action-oriented and very much caught up in the world. Now coming into satsang, and then the sense of vairagya started to set in and seeing things as Maya and all that stuff kicked in. But I chose not to let go of stuff that was in place, and then I asked myself the question: is it greater wisdom to make a choice to give up things and be more and more, in a way, sort of a renunciate in my external life? Is that the greater wisdom, or is it the greater wisdom to continue and take it like a challenge? Because it's like you go back into the boiler room and the temperature is high and everybody around is caught up in material stuff, and you're there, but internally you're trying to stay and remember God and doing stuff.

And obviously, you know, you feel humbled because you haven't been putting the time into the stuff that you used to. So again, you feel in that context like you're humbled because rather than playing the game, you're kind of just there. So you're feeling all the stuff that's boiling inside because you're now... what I've asked myself is: is it the greater wisdom to give up stuff, or is it the greater wisdom to stay in and look at it like the pressure and your staying with God when the height of material stuff actually pushes you? Because it builds resilience. It's easy to come to satsang and have a renunciate life, but I think the teachings of all the great ones was that they never shed a single thing, right? So I just want to lay that at your feet and get some guidance.

That's a good question, very good. So one thing we are all clear about is that it is important to be an inner renunciate, no? So nobody is debating that. Inner renunciate means that we are not attached to things of the world on the inside. So now we are talking about: okay, so if you're an inner renunciate—and that happens quite naturally once you start to see what you really are, who you really are, and what is there within yourself—once you start to see all of these things, the need to grasp at things of the world and to control outcomes naturally will reduce.

Now the second question then is that: okay, inner is fine, but having become or trying, striving to become more and more of an inner renunciate, will it be more helpful if I'm an outer renunciate also? Is that greater wisdom, or should I continue in the ways of the world because that will challenge me? It's easy to become a sadhu in a cave, but if a sadhu has to be in the world, then that is a bigger challenge and really tests my inner renunciation. So what should I do? Now, from where can we answer this question? Because if there was one answer, then that would be the advice to everyone. But there are some sages who say you have to become a sadhu. Some teachers have told us, some sages have told us, 'No, you must continue your householder life,' like Nisargadatta Maharaj, for example, said you must continue your householder life.

It's easy to become a sadhu in a cave, but if a sadhu has to be in the world, then that is a bigger challenge and really tests my inner renunciation. So what should I do now? From where can we answer this question? Because if there was one answer, then that would be the advice to everyone. But there are some sages who say you have to become a sadhu; some teachers have told us that. Some sages have told us, 'No, you must continue your householder life.' Like Kabir Ji, for example, said you must continue your householder life, keep doing your work, and inwardly be with God, be for God. So they said both. How do we solve this?

This is where we have to use these questions, use these inquiries which really and clearly have no set answer in the world, to take us to the teacher within our heart, to take us to the Satguru presence, to truly become the disciple of the Atma, you see. Because without the discipleship of the Atma within, we cannot do this. And now our life is ripe for our discipleship of the Atma because we've had insight. We've seen the ephemeral nature of the world; we've seen that none of this is going to last. So we are ripe to become the true disciples of the one who can really guide us moment to moment about these things.

See, don't feel like the Atma is going to say, 'No, you become a sadhu with me.' But mostly I've seen that it's 'turn left, go right,' you see. It's not telling you the end of the movie. He's like a parent to a newborn; he's just saying, 'Ah, take one step, one step like this, one step like that.' Not saying, 'Go start learning how to fly a plane, you have to become a pilot.' It is not saying that. In the same way, this sounds very beautiful the way I'm saying it, hopefully, but it can be very frustrating to the mind because the mind will say, 'But what should I do? Should I go to work? Should I not go to work?' And Atma is just like, 'It's all fine.' 'But what should I do?'

But if you trust, if you learn to trust the Satguru within, the Holy Spirit within—you see, I hope all of you are very clear that when I talk about the Satguru within, the Atma within, the Holy Spirit within, I'm not being poetic, metaphorical, you see, romantic, none of these things. I'm being very literal. And my only job is to hand you over to him. Once you are in his refuge, in his sharan, then your life is taken care of. So he is a literal living being and he will guide us moment to moment, and you will see how lovingly the curriculum is taught. So beautifully you've seen already, isn't it? The very questions you had, the answers come. The same theme keeps repeating till you really fathom it in your heart.

So we must learn to rely on this one, you see, because there's an extent to how much spiritual knowledge which is learned from the outside will help us. That is just meant to bring you to the spirit itself, you see. And then that is freedom. Because to follow the light of spirit within, then our life is no longer templatized. It is no longer 'this is right, this is wrong.' Just in this moment, this is how I'm guided. In this moment, this is how I'm feeling guided from within. But never, ever, ever lie about this. I've seen that we have a tendency sometimes in the satsang, just because we want to get our way or prove that we are right, we will say, 'Oh, but this is how I'm being guided from the Atma within.' Never lie about the Atma. You may feel like it's innocent, it's just something, but your integrity is really very important.

Don't be shy to admit that you don't know if a decision is not clear. This is a big fear in our lives. Our kids come and ask us questions; we don't know most of the answers, you see. But how many times do we actually say we don't know? They say, 'I'm busy right now, don't talk to me now. Go ask your teacher. What are we paying them so much money for? Go ask them.' And the poor child is just saying, 'Why is the sky blue?' And we are feeling stupid saying we've been on this planet apparently fifty years and we still don't know why the sky is blue. So we try to avoid this 'I don't know.' And this is very much in India also where even if you ask someone, 'Bhai, what is the way to get to this place?' they will say, 'Ah, just go straight like that.' You know, 'Just go straight like that.' Then you say, 'But you know it's there?' 'No, no, you go straight over there.' That 'I don't know' hurts us somewhere. I don't know why, it's just something attacks our ego in there.

So we must allow ourselves to say, 'I don't know. I really don't know.' Make yourself innocent, vulnerable for guidance from God. Because if you are a know-it-all—I'm not saying it's you at all, I'm just saying generally—that if you are a know-it-all, then Atma will also say, 'Okay, handle it.' But if you are truly innocent at heart, if you're truly open and you admit where you don't know, then he's always available to guide us. So many mistake spirituality and spiritual progress to be that 'I know the answers. I know it now. I've been coming to satsang or I've been to satsang with so many teachers. I've heard this one talk, I've heard that one talk, I've read this scripture, I've read that scripture.' Are you getting closer to God because of that? No. Are you just being full of pride? So we have to be very careful of these things. And the more innocent we become, the softer we become in our heart—not emotionally soft, just, you know what I mean, just open, just not insistent on our position—open, then God like a loving father will hold our hand and guide us step by step.

But firstly, do we honestly really want that? If you honestly really want that, then it's going to be much easier. Maybe the way I'm saying it, all of you will say, 'Yes, of course I want it.' Sounds beautiful. But that means that you have to be empty of your will, because it can't be your will and his will. It's not a happy relationship like that. 'Let's compromise,' like a marriage. You sit, you know, with God and say, 'What do you feel? I feel we should do like that. You feel what? Okay, let's find the middle ground.' It's not like that. Because God, like a loving parent who wants you to learn and grow, will say, 'Okay, you try it your way. But I'm here. Try it your way.' So when we really come to a point where we recognize that we cannot do it without his mercy, without his guidance, without his grace, then we start to notice how much he has been helping us anyway, and that deepens more.

Something very beautiful happened. Usually I don't share these things; I don't know whether I should outside. So the other day—okay, I'm going to share but just don't give it much importance, just the ramblings of a madman—so that day I woke up a little earlier than usual and I was just in my heart altar with God and it was feeling so beautiful and alive. Then it was time to go for the morning walk/run. So I said to God, 'Should I just not go for the walk and just stay with you like this?' God said, 'No, you can run.' So I said, 'But why should I run? This is so beautiful.' And he said, 'Because I love you.' It just brought tears to my eyes. I was just... that we may feel like when we hand over our life to God, you see, God will say, 'It's all about me, me, me, and you must serve me.' And that must be our attitude, but God will guide us every step of the way for our good. And I was so surprised with the answer because I was not expecting that at all. So then our communion starts to deepen. And I'm just scratching the surface; I'm just a mere beginner at this point. But you notice his guidance is so available and alive, but it is we who don't turn because we are very concerned about losing a grasp of our plan of life.

That kind of builds on the last two things you talked about, and maybe I'll explain it through a personal report. You know, I think I've exchanged a few messages with you, and one of my biggest struggles over the last year and a half has been this path of Bhakti versus Gyana. And I think about a couple of weeks ago, you know, sometimes it just arrives, right? You don't have to—no matter how much you read, it doesn't come. And as much as you've read it, it suddenly occurred to me that, you know, if you search for God, you find you. And if you are going down the Gyana path asking 'Who are you?', you find God. And I've read this before, and it was a morning and it was very beautiful. And you know, sometimes things just layer in and you were able to get into this very beautiful luminosity of everything around yourself and, you know, just this idea of a body, and everything was part of the bigger 'I' or the Self. And it was very beautiful. And at one level, I think you can call it a chase, but that understanding—there's no, at least I don't have too much confusion anymore about that. So thank you so much for that, because sometimes it takes many, many sittings and it just needs to percolate on its own.

But my question is—and maybe this is the mind where no matter what you begin to absorb, it always poses the next question—and really the question I have is, as a satsang or as a person who comes here getting your blessings every time, what is my role in the Maya around me? Because at some level, I can now get into this mode of 'everything is just happening, I am in God's grace, I don't control anything, I wait for whatever I need to do,' and it's soothing in its own way. But unless I'm going to the cave like you said, there is a life around you and you see things you don't like. You see people where maybe they are interrupting your own ego, but you want to speak up. And I'm finding that there is a very easy door now that says, 'Hey, it's just happening, it's meant to be, move on,' right? And I can go back. So I'd love for you to talk about—I know I can check with my heart—but when you see certain things at home, at work, around you—I sent you a message about my community—what is our role from here? I'd love for you to share some guidance on that.

Similar to what Arvind was also saying, that what should we do? Should we just become like recluses, just hide ourselves from the world? Should we go on and become evangelistic instead and say, 'Hey, I found God, why are you not looking for God?' Sometimes I feel like just walking the streets like that. So what should we do? That answer has to come—maybe this answer will disappoint—but it really has to come moment to moment from his life within ourselves. And if the answer is not coming in a comprehensible way that we can say, 'Okay, this is the answer,' then we allow him to move us. And this 'allow him to move us' to the mind seems like, 'Oh, that means I'm just vegetative or passive' or something like that. But in that, we are not recognizing that even what we take to be our action, the moment he's only moving us, is it so?

If we become empty of this kind of pressure on ourselves, we may become less vegetative than before. We may become more active or not. It is possible for you to become a sadhu in a suit. So that is why it needs a lot of trust; it needs a lot of devotion actually, you see, to be able to say, 'I truly surrender my life to this presence within my heart.' There's a part of me that still doubts it, you see. 'Am I still... am I just fooling myself?' You see, all these doubts will come. But the more you can say, 'I'm yours, God. I'm yours to use as you will,' or even if it doesn't come devotionally like that, if you can just be that 'I will not be driven by my mind and intellect, but I'll be driven by my intuition.' And intuition is a failsafe word, so even the jnanis don't mind intuition. So I will be driven just by my intuition step by step. And if I don't have the answer, then I will just remain still.

And this faith is risky, or seems risky. But this is a time where actually our safety seems like it is risky to us. I don't know if I can get this point across. To rely on his guidance is our only safety in life, is it? But that seems like a great risk to the mind, is it? Because what are we risking? The house of cards that we built up, which is going to go soon anyway, you see. That all seems at risk, you see. But if you really even were fully rational about it, we will say what?

We will just remain still. And this faith is risky, or seems risky, but this is a time where actually our safety seems like it is risky to us. I don't know if I can get this point across: to rely on his guidance is our only safety in life. Is it? But that seems like a great risk to the mind. Is it because what are we risking? The house of cards that we built up, which is going to go soon anyway. You see, that all seems at risk. But if you really even were fully rational about it, we will say, 'What is the end of all of this? Where is all of this going?' And we say that this could be over tonight because this could be a dream and I actually wake up and I say, 'I had the strangest dream.' So we don't even know that much, but we made a 50-year plan for what our life is going to be, which is just the house of cards. You see?

So that which is our true safety, that seems like the greatest risk. And that's why it is said, 'No risk, no faith.' If our spirituality is not seeming risky at all and we are just trying to make it a new comfort area, you see, then it's going to become a self-help program and not spirituality. It's just going to be like a mental wellness type workshop, but not really spirituality. Spirituality is where Spirit reigns. So whether we say, 'I'm going to be led by my intuition' or we say, 'I'm going to be led by the Satguru presence within,' we must learn to take that risk and say, 'If he makes me into the worst-case scenario I have in my mind—which is maybe like a sadhu in a cave or maybe some strange evangelist type thing—or he brings my best-case scenario to me, which is a life full of God's love and light and whatever I had planned, both things are up to his grace.' But somewhere we have to take that leap of faith.

You see how to take that leap of faith? This moment, commit to yourself that you will be driven and guided only by your heart—and I mean intuitive heart, not emotion. See what happens. See for a day, see for a week. We'll try, we will fail, but at least we start to get a sense of the project. The rubber starts to hit the road because the mind will harass us. It will say, 'But you have no plan. What's happening to you? Your life was so good, you were going somewhere, now look at you.' All these kind of mental signals will come, but that is the risk we have to take. So this is how we can really walk together, because that is all I'm interested in: how can I lead a true life by following his will? Because I've realized that all other ideas of good and bad, true and false, right and wrong, are at best provisional and don't really create the sense of safety and security that I was hoping they would anyway.

So can we take this biggest risk, which is actually our greatest security, and say, 'Guide me from within, guide me from my heart'? Are we willing to look stupid for some time not having answers? Are we willing to let go of our paradigms, our perspectives, and return to the innocence of true discipleship of the Atma within?

Father, just a follow-up on that quickly. You know, when I looked at the pictures of the amazing Masters around, in almost no case was anybody going out waving a flag saying, 'Hey, this is the new path.' Right? It was more about people coming to them and working on themselves. And like you said, I mean, that almost seems to be a guide where if you work on yourself and how you see the world, the world can take care of itself. Is that something you would subscribe to, or am I stretching it too much?

I hear what you're saying, and it is completely possible that we go that way. But there are so many beautiful traditions. Take the Maharashtra tradition of Namdev, Eknath, Tukaram—these people were just walking around with their instrument and singing the praises of God, trying to bring more and more to the true light of God, with nothing for themselves, no expectation for themselves. In every culture, every tradition, you would have these ones. Even if you hear Kabir Vani, you see many of them. If you hear Prahlad Ji singing them—Prahlad was a beautiful teacher of the Kabir tradition—he will start by saying, 'Suno bhai sadho.' You can tell that he's probably sitting at the side of the road somewhere and all these people are pretending to be very busy in their work and things, so he's just saying, 'Suno, suno. Hear me.' For whom? For them, for their own good.

So I wouldn't say that there's a set template that those who discover the truth of who they are then just stay in a place and wait for people to come. There are many who have done that, like Bhagavan is a good example of that, but there are also others who really spread the light by just being guided in this way from the heart. There are also examples of King Janaka, who was running the kingdom as a king, but he was free. He was enlightened, he was self-realized. You see in that beautiful conversation with Ashtavakra, it is a unique scripture where the questioner and the sage only exist in the first chapter, isn't it? The rest of the chapters is a conversation between two sages. It just took him that initial conversation because he was right on the precipice; he just needed that final nudge from Ashtavakra.

And after that, Ashtavakra in the second chapter prods him a bit, tests him a bit, asks some difficult-seeming questions, but Janaka is just answering from the Satguru within. After that, it's all a beautiful jugalbandi between two sages. It's just so amazing. It's probably the only scripture I read like that; it only starts off as the Guru-disciple in the beginning but then becomes like that. But my main point was that he was a king who had the realization of God, a God-realized king. You can be like that. Ashtavakra himself was like a beggar. All routes are there. So can we really determine which way we should go? No. I feel like Consciousness has full freedom to drive this life how it wants to.

And that's why I repeat that as long as it's seeming like a risk, it is good. You see? So we must not shy away from the riskiness of it. If you're shying away from it, then we are keeping the main fruit out of it. You see? We are just keeping it at the surface level. But if you dive in and say, 'Okay, I have a few years left in this life that I'm going to fully dedicate to this, to God,' then we have that sense of 'Do with me as you will.' And you see such beauty emerge in our life. I want to tell all of you that life is nothing like we think it is, because we think what's here is most important, is very important, is very relevant. It's really not that.

Ashtavakra said all these universes are like fireflies for the reality of what I am. He said you are the boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universes come and go. So don't limit your spirituality by not taking the risk, because if you don't take the risk, then all these will seem too far-fetched for us. It needs a very risky handing over. But I promise you that that which seems risky now, one day we'll recognize is our safety actually. Because we will be so deeply held in our heart, whereas we've been just floating around like a leaf disconnected from the branch. You see? Once you're connected in your heart so deeply, then the world cannot phase you. Nothing can shake you.

But we have to take that leap of faith. And anyway, what is the worst case? See, we must examine those even if you don't expose them. See through the mind's worst-case scenario. Like, everybody wants the Janaka spirituality; who is okay to be the fakir on the street? But there are so many beautiful teachers who just walked around like fakirs and were just so happy with God's presence. And who can say that Janaka had a better life than the fakir? He himself maybe would not have said that.

I want to tell you something very beautiful I heard in the satsang, which was: we think that our attachments make us happy, but when are we the happiest? When we are asleep. The world is gone. If you don't get sleep, then big trouble. See? So the mind has got this all upside down. You feel like, 'If I have a plan, if I have my preferences, if I have my way as to how this should go...' We draw our lines and say, 'This is my boundary. I will go only this far and not more than that.' And that is why in this modern world, a new convoluted type of spirituality is in place, because it is constructed with the recognition of our individual boundary: 'I will commit myself only this much and not so far. If it starts becoming scary or risky, then I'm out.'

Then at best what happens is we may find some relief, we may find some provisional peace, some provisional joy, but the true possibility of this life being fully transformed and becoming lived in God's light will not happen. And if it is feeling scary, then we must embrace that fear. And if it's feeling radical, then know that it is not; it is the very basic of spirituality. Because I'm not saying to anyone, 'You must leave your house, you must leave your job, you must leave your family, you must leave anything your mind is carrying you with.' I'm saying you must follow God. And if you can't follow God yet, or if you don't know his guidance yet, then we must be like a fish out of water. You must hear of this possibility that it is possible to be guided by God and just feel like this is the oxygen that I need in my life.

Our ability to surrender everything, you know the meaning of that? Just okay, we'll see. It's something best expressed in Hindi or Punjabi, but we hear so much in the world. But because we hear so much, we feel that, 'Oh, okay, it's maybe too far-fetched or too difficult.' It is not that. It is a complete wiping out of the old operating system and a new way to live, which is the difference between a true life, a good life, and trying to make a hellish existence seem comfortable. Most of spirituality in today's world is trying to make us live in a comfortable hell, see? Where there is death and there is resentment and grievance. But true spirituality is to be free from the notion of death, to meet eternal life. That can only happen when you meet the Atma within and it becomes first your best friend and companion, and then it becomes you yourself.

So we can't just—and I'm saying for everyone, this is not just a rant at the questioner, this is what's flowing out—so we can't just take these dips and then come back and swim on the surface. And then when the surface becomes too hot, too much heat in the kitchen, then let me take a dip. We must go deeper and deeper and live there because that is literally the Kingdom of Heaven. That is literally the kingdom of God. That is literally the Swarga that we were promised. It is possible to be in that, whichever tradition, whichever religion, it doesn't matter. The truth has been pointed out in the same way. It is possible to live beyond the dimensions of this outer appearance in a deeper place.

But what are you risking? Isn't it the opposite of the spirituality we come to hear about? We hear about the spirituality which makes us very comfortable. 'I go to satsang and I feel so good, I feel nice, you know? I go once a month at least.' It's like that. And it just keeps me happy and peaceful like that. Satsang has become like that, spirituality has become like that. Where is the desire to sacrifice all that is false, all that we take ourselves to be, no matter what the cost, to come to the truth of the light of God? It has to feel a bit like that, a lot like that, because we escape from some shackles and then we create new shackles.

Risk it. How much time do we have? The previous 30, 40, 50, 60 years have gone like that. The rest will also go. Take a risk on this stupid man sitting in front of you. Risk it. You'll find me somewhere, you can catch me later. But don't not go all the way because of some comfort, some security notions. What's going to happen? Your life will be transformed in ways that you cannot imagine. You can't hedge your bets, can't buy a call option and say, 'If it doesn't work out, well, I have this insurance.'

Let's risk it. How much time we have? The previous 30, 40, 50, 60 years have gone like that; the rest will also go. Take a risk on this stupid man sitting in front of you. Risk. I will, I will—you find me somewhere, you can catch me. But don't not go all the way because of some comfort, some security notions. What's going to happen? Your life will be transformed in ways that you cannot imagine. You can't hedge your bets. You can't buy a call option and say, 'If it doesn't work out, well, I have this insurance.' One danger is there: that you could become crazy like this man. That's all right. Crazy. Okay to be crazy, no?

What was it? It was Pascal's Wager. In Pascal's Wager, what happened is that he said, 'Okay, there are two options. One is that there is no God and therefore we don't need to worry about heaven or hell.' He was speaking the Christian construct of God. So that is one option. The second option: it's all true. There's a God, there is Judgment Day, there is all this stuff happening. So he said, suppose that it's indeterminable what is true, so you can't just risk it based on what you think you know. Suppose it's indeterminable. Then he said that you must wager that there is a God and do all that which is suggested, because if there isn't, then you have nothing to lose anyway—it's all over. But if there is, then you saved yourself. That was Pascal's Wager.

Inner renunciation, yes. You mention quite often. Can you expand?

Yes. So in India we have the notion of a sadhu. In the West, we have the notion of a monk, no? And sisters and brothers and all of these notions are there everywhere. So what is a sadhu? A sadhu is called a renunciate, which means what? They renounced the world. But usually what happens is when we look at a sadhu, we look at the outer nature of the sadhu. So they are unkempt like this one, and they're probably roaming in the streets, you see, or living in an asham somewhere. They have no worldly attachment. They don't have a house, usually. They usually don't have a family, you see. At least outwardly it seemed like that. So that's an outer renunciate or sadhu.

Now, I've spoken to some sadus. Some sadus in some strange way found their way to satsang also. So one sadhu came to satsang in Rishikesh, and he said to me, 'You know, Father...' and it sounds so familiar, hopefully to all of you, that he said, 'Father'—and he called me Father very sweetly, old sadhu—he said, 'When I'm with you in satsang, it's all fine. But when I go back into the housing with the other sadus, they're fighting with me about food, and they're fighting with me about my bed, they're fighting with me about everything.' So I said, 'This is not sadhu life, because this is exactly the same. You've not changed anything. Same thing happens in the world where people are fighting for money and fighting for things, you see.'

So outer renunciation by itself, in itself, doesn't help because the same thing surrounds you everywhere. I've seen this with friends also who said, 'I'm done with this hustle and bustle of city life. I'm going to buy a place in Goa,' or 'I'm going to buy a farmhouse outside the city.' And you talk to them for the first few weeks, they're very happy. You see? 'No, no hassles. You guys are not getting water? Our water is 100 feet.' You know, everything's seeming very good. You talk to them after one year: 'Yeah, this light just goes. There's no security. Sometimes wild animals come. I'm troubled with this, I'm troubled with that.' So you replace the old construct with a new construct, but you didn't renounce what was needed to be renounced. So you carry the trouble with you.

So it doesn't matter what you renounce on the outside if you still don't renounce here. Here means all our attachments to relationships, all our attachments to security, money, all our attachments to the health of the body, all our attachments to our made-up meaning about the world and what we think is true and untrue—all the false sense-making, meaning-making that we've done. So a true renunciate is an inner renunciate who is unattached to this grasping. The inner sadhu. Then from that inner renunciation, whether we continue to be householders or we become outer sadus, that doesn't matter, you see? But we truly renounce the source of trouble. This is the... we renounce the mind and our attachment. That is the inner renunciation.

So it's not important to say... and you talk to many of them, they are full of pride. They say, 'Oh, I had a job in CityBank,' you see? And then, you know, they impress you with their English because they look like a sadhu and the first time you hear them and they're talking in perfect English, you are a bit surprised. 'Oh, I used to work like this, I had a job so much, I studied at the IIT,' you know, all of this stuff. So that 'me' is not gone. So what is the sadhu? 'Me, me, me' doesn't go. And what have you really renounced? So to renounce the 'me' is inner renunciation. Inwardly. Outwardly, we may be the King of Mithila, Janaka Ji, but inwardly he was a sadhu.

Was there something else to the question? No, I just want you to expand because you often mention 'become an inner sadhu' and you mention like one sentence. So every time it's for me like, okay, how?

Same thing. Just what is being shared in satsang for us to follow inwardly, that is it. Many think of the spiritual life as if it is that sadhu life outside. But if it is just going to be outside, it doesn't... many of the sadus you meet are also addicted to many bad things, many things which are taking them away from God's presence. So just the garb of a holy one doesn't make us holy. It's like Advaita has the best excuses for bad behavior, no? 'God is doing everything, Consciousness is doing it.' It doesn't... when we say like that, then it doesn't have the fragrance of reality. Some are living like that, like Dattatreya; they truly say God is only doing everything. It's very different. So it's not in the words. In the same way, every path has so many excuses, and the lowest nature of our mind is attracted to all of that, and then it feels like a bonus because we're doing it in the garb of spirituality. Stay away from all of this.

So first, the main switch is that there is a living being which is living within yourself, capital S Self, which is the presence of God. That is the beginning step of spirituality. That spirit is Spirit. I keep saying that most of us want to do a spirituality without Spirit, just because the Spirit seems scary. So how we actually want a 'me-ality,' but we'll do it on our own terms. But the first step is that, whether we may not be able to testify to the Spirit at this moment, but at least now you've encountered someone who is telling you that there is God's presence, the Atma, who lives within you. It is a living being, a living presence. It's not a feeling, it's not a force of nature; it's an actuality. This living being is the light of the universe, is the light of your life. But He is also your teacher, He's also your refuge, He's also your healing, your rest. And only in the light of the Atma within, which is also called the Satguru presence within, can you recognize your true reality as pure awareness itself.

So this recognition, the true self-knowledge, Atma Gyan, comes from the Atma. So none of you must make that mistake of trying to do a spirituality without coming to the discipleship of the Atma within. It just doesn't work. So learn from the experiences of this one, because this one is the worst of the lot. Full of pride, full of intellectual garbage, full of every stupidity—and still is, actually. But at least I can try and share some of my mistakes. So when you hear about this Atma, this Holy Spirit, don't take it to be some mystical, esoteric, made-up thing. That very presence that you call your presence is Him. And when I'm saying Him, I'm not saying it as a gender; you can say Her also, it's okay. So meet Her in your heart. And if you haven't met Him, haven't met Her, then make that your primary focus in your life. Then the way will come.

Your intention has to be very clear. If your intention is to find God's presence, then the method will show up in front of you faster than you can imagine. But what we lack is a clarity of intention, because we quickly get into, 'Yes, yes, yes, but what will happen to me in the process?' Nothing. You're going to die anyway. What is going to happen to you in the process anyway? Where does the process go? So the false one is going to die anyway. So give it a chance at eternal life by meeting the Eternal One. So make your life about that, even if it feels or seems unbelievable to you at this point that this will happen for you. See? Have faith. If it can happen to a stupid one here, all of you are much better off. At least in that way I can reassure you.

But it's not easy. It's going to be difficult. I'm not here to tell anyone it's going to be easy. It's going to be difficult because what gets in the way is you. You are your nemesis. And because you are your nemesis, you will put up quite a fight. The less you invest in this 'me, me, me,' the easier it will be. Because this nemesis of yours will also use the spiritual knowledge it is gaining against you. It'll use everything against you. It'll make you proud. It'll say, 'I know things, but it's like this, it's not like that.' So this is the one that Buddha spoke about. He said one can beat a thousand armies or a hundred armies, but to transcend themselves is much more difficult. But if you're up for it, I'm up for it with you, and I'm here to support in any way I can. But that commitment, that intention, has to come from you.

You can come and lament in satsang saying, 'I want to commit fully to God in my heart. I tried all day, but I got distracted fifty times.' I love those reports because those are true. So then we can look at these things together and say, 'Okay, what should I do?' In this way, use me. In this way, I heard something very beautiful and I felt like it's so true here: that when I started sharing satsang, I was much more naive than I even am now. But I'm realizing now that I have no interest in disciples. I have no interest in saying, 'I have my... this is satsang with...' I have no interest in any of that. I heard him say this and I felt like it's so true here. So don't have to worry about calling me Father; just brother is more than enough. Ananta is fine, completely. But even brother is more than enough. And you don't have to be a disciple; I don't have to be a master. I'm just happy to help if you are truly longing in your heart for God. That is my greatest joy. I've seen the so-called perks of 'guruhood' for twelve years now. It's nothing. I mean, nothing at all. But it can become a new attachment; it can become a new way to trap. Instead, let's just walk together as brother and sister to God. Let's come to the true discipleship of the Satguru within.

I just want to say that I'm very tired of my head. Of your head. Very good. I don't want to go to this head at all, and I surrender that to you. Whatever it takes, whatever it takes, wherever you take me, just get me out of this head. Yes, my prayer, my petition. And I beg you to free me from this going-to-the-head habit, addiction.

The prayer is fully heard in my heart. I'm praying so deeply for you, and I'm going to fight for you with all my might, just as you are. Keep following, keep following, following. Even when it seems difficult, it seems frustrating, I promise you that won't last. Just keep following. The mind will fight with all its might. That's why I said it's not going to be easy. But if you are in this together for God, He will not leave us. He will not leave us halfway. Just be careful. Simple things: don't get distracted easily, don't start wandering in your head easily. Wherever you are, just keep remembering God. Keep your focus on Him. All the tools are there with you. But what will seem difficult is to stay. To stay is difficult. So we have to... and nobody can do it by themselves. God's grace is needed, but at least we have to give it our best. Just so, cut out everything that distracts you. The mind gets power when we're sitting in satsang and most of you are doing well in satsang, then...

Don't get distracted easily. Don't start wandering in your head easily. Wherever you are, just keep remembering God. Keep your focus on Him. All the tools are there with you, but what will seem difficult is to stay. To stay is difficult. So we have to, and nobody can do it by themselves. God's grace is needed, but at least we have to give it our best. Just cut out everything that distracts you. The mind gets power when we are sitting in satsang. Most of you are doing well in satsang, then when we go back, then something, something, something, something, something. But if we hold our heart strong and we stay with that, stay with the light, then the mind doesn't have that much power.

But if you say, 'Yes, satsang is over, now where's the party?' It's okay to party, I'm not saying cut it out, but I'm just saying if you want to rush back into the old Maya, you see, you can go to the party but you can still be with God. So let whatever is happening on the outside happen, but you don't get distracted by it. But there may be some of you, I have to say that if the outside seems very distracting, then just maybe make it half. Make it half to start. Because this whole thing is about time in the sense that if you feel like you socialize twice a week and every time you go to that kind of socializing then you feel disconnected in your heart, then you need to wait for the next satsang before you can feel the connection again. So instead of twice, we go out once. But you have to check for yourself.

But more importantly, I'm saying wherever you go, stay with God. But don't fool yourself in the sense that don't make that into an excuse that 'God is with me no matter what.' Keep checking for yourself if this is true. When you feel disconnected in your heart, that should feel like you're missing oxygen in your life. At least for those of you who have been in satsang for a few years, now you should feel that. That disconnection, that heaviness, you must feel like swimming back immediately to your heart, you see? Then you start living like that, then your internal compass will guide you moment to moment and it will keep you secure moment to moment. You'll have this sort of like in these movies they show, you have this shield which is protecting you because your heart will emanate so much light that all these things will not distract you so much.

But you have to give yourself the best chance to transform your life. Most of us are trying to say, 'I want God to be squeezed into my existing life, my existing mind space, my existing ideas.' Don't expect that. Ask God what He wants and be true to yourself. That is the most important. Like I said, Shabri is the best example. I also said be an inner Shabri. So just use that and say, 'Yeah, inner Shabri.' But if you're not true to yourself, then you're only fooling yourself. As I've been telling all of you about the audience of one, that's the most important thing. Remember that all of this is a dream. Maya itself literally means like a dream. All this is a dream. So then the only audience we need to be concerned about or care about is God. He is the true witness, the third bird of the story.

And that is so reassuring because if you truly want to lead a true life, if you want to meet God, then to know that He is always with you is very important. But what will happen once you remember that the audience is of one, of this one, the only one, is that all the nonsense of the world will not seem that important to you. 'What does this one think of me? Did I make a good impression?' You see? 'What is my image now?' You see? 'Now when I spoke, then did I express myself properly?' Nobody cares about any of that. All this is... you may see people in front of you, thousands, millions, it doesn't matter. What is important is the audience of one.

You see so many spiritual performers in the world today. They are saying all big, big things with great fervor and all of that, but in the presence, you get the stink of pride. Even if you see them through TV, you see that they are only interested in 'me, me, me.' So they may fool millions, the whole world may become their follower, but they have forgotten the audience of one. It doesn't matter all these things. Some share satsang after satsang, you hear them so many times, they never mention God. It's like, 'I do this, I do like that, I can do this, I, I, I,' and then they say ego is the worst thing. So stay away from spiritual performance right from now. Right from now means don't wait for the pedestal. When you talk to your friends, be true, be honest, have integrity in what you're saying. Speak only from your experience, from true insight.

Because what will happen? You'll impress all your friends, and then what's the big deal in that? Suppose the whole world thinks you are some mahayogi, then what will happen? Would you escape death? Will you be able to deny God and just live in that mahayogi state forever? So as an elder brother, I'm telling you, don't get trapped in this nonsense. Everything that is good, give credit to God. Every stupidity, take blame for yourself. In satsang also, remember that everything good that I'm sharing, I've heard it from a beautiful sage, and all the stupidity comes inserted by me especially. So remember that the audience is hidden. You can lie to yourself, you can lie to the world, but you cannot hide from His light.