Don't Start Your Day Without Coming to God's Presence - 24th January 2024

I'm getting very eager to get that knowledge, Father, like...

Yes, but this one is... that's why I'm saying that this one will keep pretending as if it wants there, but actually even in its pretense, it is blocking that. So leave it. No? Okay.

Just so what happens when you leave it all? What compels you back? It's like I leave it, then something comes up and is this that? Something like that happens. So that pulls you back in the mind. The mind saying, 'Is this that?'

So leave that. Like some knowledge is that heart knowledge, that thing? Yeah, yeah. Some knowledge will come up and it seems very different from the previous knowledge. So then who wants to check whether it's heart knowledge or head knowledge? Oh no, I don't know what is the third option. Even these two options... the heart is guiding, then is the heart itself saying, 'Oh, is this that?' No. Something is checking on that, you see. Now besides the mind, what could it be besides the mind?

Even the first... only I'm not very clear on heart and mind, that the difference. Like I know coming, it's going round and round and round so many times.

Okay, so we started by saying you're empty. Empty of what? Empty of the mind. So you're in the unborn, the no-mind. Yes. In the no-mind, you find that it is not a lost state; it is a found state. Then some guidance may come, you see. Mostly it will just move you. Initially, you get used to it just moving you. The light just moves you. So you don't need to hear or to know what the guidance is; you just allow the holy presence to move you. And once you get used to surrendering in that way, living in that way, then you may start receiving some guidance in your heart. So start like that. Just be empty. Come watch me. Because if you're going to oppress it with the spiritual seeker wanting to know, wanting to grasp, wanting to attain heart knowledge, then that won't... that'll just delay the maturing. Even now the mind wants to say yes, something it'll do. I know this also. Try to get... you cannot do anything about it. Doing whatever it is doing, it will keep doing whatever it is doing. You don't follow that. You can do... are you using inquiry or prayer or what? What are you using today?

Today, no. I'm saying overall.

So let me recap for everyone. So I advise that don't start your day without coming to God's presence. Yes. So when you start, don't just rush into things and start replying to on your phone and get into what is called doom scrolling and all of that. Just keep that aside for some time and just first come to your center where God's presence is alive. Stay like that. Be centered in that way. So the heart temple which is always there, get the Darshan of God's light in your heart temple and then allow the rest of your life to move from there. Actually, once you come to that, then you don't have to do anything at all because God's presence is there. He will move you. He will guide you. Just allow that to move you. Don't pick up the false doership. You've done your part; you've come to God. Now just allow His will to unfold. Then what happens is that this sounds quite straightforward, but I don't feel anyone can just do that, you see. Ah, see. So because you need an anchor. Because the mind is so tempting, it will tell you some story. It will tell you this, this, this is... but you see, so to pull you out of the temple in your heart to go to the realm of the mind, it will tell you some seemingly compelling, important things, problems you need to solve, things which are unfair, whatever narratives may be. And that is why you need an anchor. So that an anchor can be inquiry. When it offers you a story, you can ask yourself, 'Who am I? Who is that who's the protagonist of the story?' Or you can keep chanting your prayer or your mantra. Or if you feel comfortable, just remain in the presence of unconditional love in your heart. Just anchor yourself with that. Because most of us by now would have heard that, heard in Satsang, heard Master Bhagavan said this very famous thing which is: all things are perfectly resolved in the unborn. You see? So who doesn't want all things to be perfectly resolved? Everyone does. So all of us must have tried to stay in the unborn, isn't it? But then what happens is that we go back into the mind because it seems so tempting, isn't it? It seems so compelling. And because it seems so compelling, that is why inquiry, prayer, and the presence of unconditional love are available as God's instruments, as God's tools for us to use so that we can be anchored in His light through the course of the day. And even in spite of that, we may still be tempted from time to time. We'll forget, you see. I forget. So, and it's not necessary that because I forget, all of you will forget, but it's likely that all of us forget, no? So when that forgetting happens, we are not to then beat ourselves up and say, 'No, no, but why did this happen? I'm not doing it right.' None of that. Just return home. And home is the temple in your heart. So as soon as you notice, come back. Because you don't know the next trick which will come from the mind, which may be spiritual itself. The mind offering spiritual advice which will keep you in the head for longer and longer, you see. So that includes the mind's so-called conundrum of 'Is this heart knowledge or not?' You see? Who wants to know? Does the heart want to know? No. It is the same mind which is posing as you wanting to do this on your terms, which is actually the mind's terms. So leave that. Just stay with the presence. That's all.

Stay. Yes, that's all.

That is all. That itself is the most difficult and the most simple endeavor in the human condition. Most simple moment to moment, most difficult over the journey of time. When there is time, it is the most difficult thing. In the moment, it is the simplest thing. It is a pure non-doing, actually. Effortlessness. I actually wanted to send you a message the other day, before I forget and we go to Georgie. There's a book called 'The Inner Game of Tennis' and then once you... if you enjoy that, there's another book which is about the same thing which is called 'The Inner Game of Work'. So I heard about the second one, but I've only read the first one and it's very Satsang and it applies to our conversation as well. So just that, 'Inner Game of Tennis', huh? Start the tennis one is the first one and then the sequel is the work one. So if you like that, then you'll enjoy the work one.

You were saying just stay with the presence. Yes. Sometimes we... sometimes I don't want to.

Yeah, yes. So stop that. Like I had the same conversation with you last week. That is the whole... that is the whole human condition, you see. Your question actually encapsulates the whole human condition. God is available, but I want to do it my way, you see. So that's Adam, that's all the biblical characters, that's all the ones in every scripture that went away from the path momentarily and then came back. That is the only thing, isn't it? Yeah.

Sometimes why don't you want to? I don't know. Sometimes it happens like every week. Every week once.

Yeah, that's okay. Like for a moment every week. Like today you didn't want to come. Today you didn't want to come to Satsang and what told you that? My ego. Yes. What do you mean? So when we side with the misguided one, you see, can it ever be for our growth, for our truth, for God? No. The trouble is when we don't spot it is coming from the ego, when we feel like it is right, you see. So when you say already it is from my ego, then I'm not that concerned because you can spot it's from... I don't know if you read 'The Screwtape Letters', but once you can spot it's from Screwtape, then the worry is not that much. What are you saying? You're basically saying the mind offers me something and I feel like I want to do that, isn't it? That is all of us. That is what this whole thing is about: how not to go with the temptation of the mind. So when we keep saying Kabir Ji's statement that Maya is a 'Mahathagini', which means that Maya is the greatest con artist. Maya is just not just the realm of perceptions, but when these thoughts, when this identity is believed. Okay, so let's look at it another way. Many times you've not wanted to, or you wanted to follow the mind, isn't it? In our history, all of us, we wanted to follow our mind. What does that get us? Just lost for a little bit. Lost for momentary nothing. But what's the benefit? You say, 'I don't want to be with God,' because that's a huge statement, no? Which you're not saying, I'm paraphrasing for you. You're saying God's presence is there, there's a holy presence in my heart, we call it the heart temple, but the mind comes and says, 'Let's not go to Satsang today, let's have an ice cream.' Have an ice cream, is it? Which I did.

So you had the ice cream and then... that's fine. I think she came and she waited for me. Maybe she knew deep down I didn't want to come. See, no idea about your ice cream. She's just wondering why you didn't get her one. No, not ice... so everyone is eating ice cream, but we all want to eat ice cream. All Satsang is forgotten. This is the way the mind works. I mean, ice cream come, ice cream. You know what he's going to say? Chocolate, huh? Chocolate, chocolate, butterscotch. All the devotion is gone because it's all switched. It's not gone, it's switched to chocolate ice cream. I hope there isn't one. I asked both, hoping that somebody would say no, no. She said that you wouldn't come.

Okay, so good news for you. I'm traveling tomorrow to Pune for the weekend. For the long... we have Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm in Pune. So we won't have Satsang on Friday. And you want to go to already. It's tomorrow evening we go. Tomorrow my mom has to see an eye specialist there and also have some work with my brothers. She wants us to come. Pune come? I don't know what the quality of ice cream is there, but this is it. Are you seeing it? Beside all the humor we can keep, but really that's what happens. That the mind offers us an alternative and we say, 'Ah, yes, that sounds better.' But maturity is to know that I've been on that road many times before and it has never led to anything useful.

Once a week it happened. Yeah, this like a block for Satsang or... like I don't usually, even if I feel I'm not with God, I will look for God. But when I'm on a day like this, I don't even look for God.

So it's a designated day? No, it switches around the whole day. You don't... sometimes it lasts for hours, sometimes it lasts for...

The mind offers us an alternative and we say, 'Ah yes, that sounds better.' But maturity is to know that I've been on that road many times before and it has never led to anything useful.

Once a week it happened, yeah. This is like a block for satsang. I don't usually... even if I feel I'm not with God, I will look for God. But when I'm on a day like this, I don't even look for God. So it's a designated day, no? It switches around the whole day. Sometimes it lasts for hours, sometimes it lasts for the whole day, sometimes it lasts for a day and a half. Then how do you come back to God? I get tired of the... why is it never like so much fun, so great, that we never return?

It may happen. He may never return in this life. Yeah, there's no satisfaction there eventually. But while I'm in this state, I feel that the oppression is going to... oh yes, it seems more oppressive. 'Come to satsang, sit uncomfortably, listen to the same old stuff'—it can sound like that. And when you're deeply in God's presence, then to be oppressed by the mind seems so torturous. It's the same hot water, cold water thing. If your hand has been in hot water for long, then you touch the cold water, it seems like too cold. If it's in cold water for long, you touch the hot water, it burns you. So literally the difference between head and heart can feel as drastic as that.

So if I don't show up for satsang one day, no, I have gone for ice cream. Now I know that I should invite everyone next time. Just make a group: 'Don't want to come to satsang today, ice cream.' The ice cream gang. Every cream Bangalore, ice cream Bangalore.

This, as long as you can spot that it's coming from the mind, yeah. And I'm saying it because I don't want to come back to God, but I want to come back to God. Yeah, this. And then when do we come back? Huh? We need slapped around a bit in life. 'God, where are you? You have forgotten me, isn't it? Why have you forgotten me?' Yeah, you can really feel that. I mean, it is telling you to just turn. Yeah, but that turning itself feels so oppressive during that time. You just can't do it. But thank God, you can feel the God calling and you can feel this both. You can at least see that now. Yes. So, yeah, but it is certainly very difficult to turn at that moment.

Yes, that is... the Mahabharat was an actual war as well as probably a great metaphor for this battle because on one side are all our attachments, all the chocolate ice cream, Duryodhan, you know? Same. So they are on one side: 'Come join our side, we are the stronger side, there are a hundred of us.' Other side is a small army led by Krishna. So turn to Krishna in your heart, God in your heart. The mind has hundreds of tricks even now. But I have to stay like that. Can I not see? It'll offer you some commentary or always empty this. All perceptions are made of consciousness. There's no escaping, like from the moment the waking state, there's no escaping, there's no separation. It's all Maya is also Consciousness. It's just... it just feels like, you know, because it's a 3D screen. We're not used to it. If it were a 2D screen, it would be just like, okay, body on a screen being watched. But it's 3D, so it's very... I mean, it blows your mind. I mean, it literally... you have no idea whether you don't... I mean, there's nothing to relate to, whether, you know, to our previous conversation, whether you've lost your marbles or whether you're actually seeing something which is, you know, the most subtle from which everything more gross gets formed.

How would we meet each other in the 4D way? Suppose it was a five-dimensional world, not a four-dimensional one, and the dimension of time was also perceivable. Then how would we meet? It's a beautiful contemplation if you're crazy like me. Past and future. So every version, like the baby Ananta and every moment of that one's life, would meet every moment of your life, isn't it? And suppose we're taking only one linear life. But let's start to that... you're saying that the Consciousness can create any moment at any moment. Yeah, I'm just saying that if you were to experience, change the camera position, could walk around and see you in different stages of life. Yeah, but that 'you' which is walking around itself would be... no, not necessarily. I don't know. It's not in this world dynamics, it's not really possible to explain.

Yeah, so like here we meet in three dimensions and then time is really unperceivable, but it's inferred because of change. In the same way, then time would become the fourth dimension that is perceived in some parallel way. Not possible to meet in the intellect. It is said Krishna lives in the 16th dimension. Sometime we already meet like that actually. We meet like that, but in the heart. The dream could be another dimension, time. Yeah, but even our dreams are like this, like three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Only intuitively it can be grasped and we're just not able to mentally even conceptualize. We love to say, like the Krishna bhaktas love to say, that there is this realm of 16 dimensions. But can we fathom such a thing? I don't know anything.

If you don't know, then you know. Or if you're not... rather than making it sound very Zen, let me see. If you're not full of conceptual knowledge, then your intuitive insight just finds an outlet, expression in your life. But if you value conceptual knowledge a lot, then it seems like it just blocks. The thing with conceptual knowledge is it makes you proud. The thing with intuitive knowledge is that you know it, you didn't do anything for it, it just came. So you can't take any credit for it.

He's in the fifth dimension only, not come back from there. Where is the mind? So what they do is take a square. Take a square, take two of them. Take two squares, two dimensions, two of them, yeah, and join all the corners. Yes, that becomes a 2D projection of... yeah, then make two cubes, attach all the corners, that becomes a 3D projection of the four dimensions. It becomes really weird. After the word Tesseract in the Marvel movies, it comes from there, trying to represent a four-dimensional object. What we project, yes, like the world has many dimensions, we only project only like mirror image. Only we see zero dimension. There are no dimensions. Yes, that is Shivan. That is the... what do you know when you know nothing?

Because I was watching a video on dimensions and the person said that in zero dimensions, that person or whoever it is will be formed as you. So because there are no dimensions there, it's a pure...

Yeah, it's purely non-phenomenal because to have phenomena you need at least one dimension. That's your true reality: dimensionless, pure intelligence. After that, the shunyata or the zero is not a negation. It is a negation; the process of neti-neti, the negation, brings you to that which is not a negative no-thing. Therefore there is no fight between the Buddhist and the Vedantin. It's only conceptual, the fight. When we do neti-neti, we say we come to Nirguna Brahman. See, they say that if you label it Nirguna Brahman, then that also becomes a concept which you have to negate. So there is no Nirguna Brahman, they may say, but they come to that. That's why they would say you attain Buddhahood or you came to recognition. They may deny the word Self, but they are Buddhist. He may say no, no Buddha, no everything, to come to a deeper recognition which is not conceptual. Because Buddha himself said that grasping is suffering. So if you grasp at the label Buddha, you grasp at the label Brahman, then that negates the actual meeting. Both were trying to say the same thing. So Truth for Truth's sake and God for God's sake. Just... it's very difficult. Are you in or out? Ice cream or something?

I'm in, but the 'how' part...

If you're in, you're in. Don't worry, we will carry you. God will carry you home. You stay in, that's key. And it doesn't mean you have to stay in with satsang, satsang with or nothing like that. It's not about this place. Stay in with God and then the path will keep getting clearer and clearer.

Is our remaining empty a fullness or a negative nothing?

It's a fullness. It's a beautiful no. And you have to appreciate the maturity that they were able to point in those ways. Ravi Shankar told you, if you find someone who can tell you who we are, run away from them.

Yes, I ran away, unfortunately, because I didn't meet... I was not able to meet the guidance that way. I just felt like he's avoiding the question, he doesn't want to tell. So I just... since you shared, so I was in satsang and I was really getting deeply involved in the self-inquiry, deeply immersed in the self-inquiry, and just hoping that one day, you know, Guru will share something about it. Then one day we were sitting in a small group, so this girl comes to him and said, 'Guruji, I want to ask you the most important question: Who am I?' So he just laughed it off and said, 'If anyone tells you who you are, you run from them.' And I got so like irritated. I was waiting for that question, you know? I was too young also to realize that he's not saying the wrong thing because the truth is ineffable, it cannot be said. So if anyone claims to tell you who you are, you must run from them in that way. I was too immature and stupid to really understand what he was trying to say. Don't grasp at that, you'll suffer. Leave it.

Oh, she actually left? That's very good. That's good. When you say grasping is suffering, ah yes. Go on. In what way can we be empty for God? So we can inquire, we can pray, we can be anchored in unconditional love. And whatever the gurus, the teachers have guided us is for that. And the idea is not to make a collection of ways; just find something that works, use it. You don't have to write a book, you have to live in the temple of God. So be careful of mental grasping posing as knowledge. See, that seems to be the conversation where many times it will pose because I know the term for it, or I've contemplated something, or I think I've understood something, you see? Then that poses as knowledge. It doesn't do anything. As they say, you don't want to become a Pandit, you want to become one who is living in God's life. Pandit is a scholar, someone who has learned a lot about... in the way this reference is used.

Father, so chanting is empty enough?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Remain in God's name. We took that example that one child says, 'I can't experience the love, you see, love for God I can't experience.' So we said, 'Okay, have you ever met a very sweet baby?' Yes. So how do you bring that baby into your focus? You remember their name. So in the same way, how to bring God or the love for God into focus? By remembering His name. And you will see that your heart loves to pray, it loves to chant. It does not interrupt pure perception. It's just such a natural way of existing. Initially it may seem like... because it blocks the usual flow of the mind's functioning in our operation with it and our relationship with the mind. So initially it does feel like effort. But once you break it, it's just so natural. The process of breaking away from the mental operation can seem like it is effort. So even if in those days it feels mechanical, if it feels like it's not coming from your heart, it feels like too much effort, you must still make it because it breaks this constant slavery to the mind. The mind prison, you break out of it. So Atma is God's presence. It loves to remember its source, to be in its source, to sing His glory. That's why all the great bhajans, all the devotional music has come from your heart. You hear some things and they are heartfelt; you may not even understand the language, it makes you so full of love in your heart because it came from that place, yeah, from the presence.

When the sensations of the body are felt, and in my case I thoroughly felt the head seems to be like the focus point. Of late there's also been a sense of like cutting the cord. I don't know, because this is a bit peculiar, you know, this whole thing, but it's like a scissor and just cutting the cord of those sensations. The cord can be like a mental understanding of what they are. Some sensations are there, but you know, now I all said, 'My body,' you know, it's...

Yeah, from the presence, when the sensations of the body are felt—and in my case, I felt the head seems to be like the focus point. Um, of late, there's also been a sense of like cutting the cord. I don't know, because this is a bit peculiar, you know, this whole thing, but it's like a scissor and just cutting the cord of those sensations. The cord can be like a mental understanding of what they are. Some sensations are there, but you know, now I always said 'my body,' you know, it's my body, but then some feel came to just, you know, like snip-snip it, like so it disappears or, you know, erase. I erase the sensations. I don't know, so peculiar. I mean, but it's quite persistent.

Yes, you're saying metaphorically in the sense that one way to look at that cord is to say, to claim that it is me, mine, you see? So this sensation is me, that sensation is other. So that is one way to look at it. The other is to—if there's an idea that something is being held on you like with a cord or something like that—then just let everything go. Everything go. And you see that just to wish the disappearance of the sensations... don't wish for anything unless it is coming from the heart. When we are empty, this is God, that is God. We don't have to say this should not be. You don't have to become nihilistic in any way. No position.

So how do we clearly discriminate between knowledge of the mind versus knowledge of the heart? How do we understand what is really what, what is coming from where?

Yeah, so I have three tools actually, now four. But the least subtle, but quite subtle for the human play, but the least subtle among all of them is that if you feel a presence of love and a sort of unconditional love, then know that the guidance is coming from the heart. Um, then subtler is if the presence of being, the beingness, the Atma, is palpable. And subtlest is that the Nirguna, the pure awareness which is your true nature, is apparent to you as that guidance is being received, see? So it gets... but we can start with just the presence of unconditional love.

See, the mind will want to rush, will want to do it quickly, will be authoritative. You won't really taste love when the mind is oppressing you, even if it is talking about ice cream, you see? It just offers it as an alternative way, but you don't feel the presence of love in that. But the fourth one maybe is a good starting point for everyone, which is that as you are in the heart guidance, your pure perceptions are not interrupted. So it's... I don't know if that made any sort of sense for you, but if you notice, if you're with the mind, then what happens? You see that this world starts to dissolve. You may even forget you're in this room. So our perceptions start to become diffused.

Have you noticed that? That if you're thinking right now... so just, if you'll humor me, just keep looking at this hand and imagine a tree in your head. Like, make the tree really vivid, give it good leaves. You see? So what do you notice? You should, you would notice ideally that as you are with the perception of the tree, then the hand starts to fade. It starts to get diffused. The world starts to... because our attention is very limited. So when we put our attention on multiple things, that's why we get tired and irritated and frustrated, because our attention is limited. And any parent knows that two kids asking for attention at the same time, you see, can be quite difficult to manage.

But when you are being guided by the heart, it doesn't need your attention. It just flows. And the pure perception of... so nothing in the world starts to disappear. So that is one easy way in day-to-day life that you can tell. See? But you need some observation in the sense that initially we don't even observe that half the time we are not even meeting the world. We're not meeting the perceptions of the world. We are sitting in our heads and we have a very strange sort of existence which is half here, half there. So our life seems colorless and there's a lack of vibrancy in that because we don't really truly taste even this manifest world.

If you remain in pure perception, then when the heart guides you, it doesn't interfere with that. So when the sharing of satsang is happening, I'm looking at all of you so clearly and yet the words are just flowing. But if you were to sit and think and think, then the world in front will start to fade. Then you start coming up with things to say. So that's a difference as well. So these are the four. Pick whatever seems most comfortable. The presence of unconditional love is also a great way to start. Just be empty until if you feel like something deeper is guiding you, check if there's like just a love which is without a reason, without a cause. It's just there.

Then as it gets subtler, then you notice that the presence itself... you see, it's clearly coming from the presence of God himself. And then you notice that your absolute reality, the Nirguna reality of your true self, is apparent to you as the guidance is being received. So all these tools are there.

The first one is to clear your mind and just feel?

Yes, the first one, just clear your mind and feel, and you'll feel like love, you see? Just a loving presence.

Second, what was the second one?

Second one is just to notice the sense of being, the presence, that 'I am-ness' which is the Atma itself. And the third one—and I'm sorry that some of these things obviously as we deepen in our satsang, as we deepen in our self-recognition, they become more and more clear. I'm just rattling them off as if they are the simplest things, but sometimes it feels like it takes us lifetimes to get to these points of recognition. And so the second one is the presence of Atma, the Holy Spirit, the presence within. And the third one is that the truly purely intuitive recognition of the non-phenomenal self which I am, which you are, is apparent to you.

And just like our attention is limited in the human condition, we can't be intuitive and mental at the same time, you see? So if that is available to you, that you are that Nirguna self, the attributeless reality, then that has to be intuitive. And as you're being intuitive, if some guidance is emerging from there, you can trust that as well. There is also a video on this, we made a highlight. No, in satsang sometimes it can be, you see, a lot of words spoken quickly, and so the video you can just pause and see.

So oftentimes you use the word 'attention' and 'interest' interchangeably. I use it like that, so that's how I... but um, there's this dance between attention—I mean these are just words—but it seems like there's attention where there's pure perception, and then there's the middle ground of interest, and then there's belief.

Yeah, actually interest is like a propensity to believe. And that happens because of what concepts, what notions we've indulged in in the past. We talked about it that day, that you may not be interested in... name one thing that you're completely not interested in. I'm running on two hours of sleep, let's see.

Okay, so I'll help you. Suppose Indian classical music. Are you interested?

No, no, good. So you're just not interested in it. So when the thought comes and says, 'Oh, there's a great sitar performance happening next to your house,' you see, there's no real propensity to buy into that, you see, because there's no interest. But suppose you have a friend or she tells you, you know, that 'I just heard this great maestro, Ustad Zakir Hussain, he plays so beautifully, you must hear him.' See? So then you heard that and your mind says, 'Oh, you must try this,' you see? So you bought into that notion. So it gets stored in the tree of conditioning somewhere, yeah? So when next time you hear this great Indian maestro playing next door, you see, so there's a more propensity to believe. The magnetism is there.

The magnetism, yeah.

So it's just like that. And if you go into that belief more and more, then it forms like a branch, you see? Indian classical music becomes a branch of your persona. It was not there before. So through our life, we've pruned many branches, we've created many branches of this tree of conditioning. But the good news is that when you empty, you empty of the whole tree. The bad news is what? That when you latch on to a leaf, the whole tree is there, you see? Because everything is connected to everything else. You see the 'me'? Do you latch on to the simplest idea, 'I want something'? Oh, the whole persona seems to be there. And that is the one that we call the 'me.' The 'me' is nothing but a bundle of beliefs, a bundle of things that we are interested in or we've given belief to.

And um, sometimes you talk about, you know, like you show your hand and you say, 'Okay, I'm interested in it,' but you're saying there, even with interest, there could still be pure perception. Interest doesn't necessarily... well, I don't recall doing that actually. To... if attention is on it, I would rightly say I'm interested in it anyway. So suppose, let's say I said it, then my question is obviously when one believes, pure perception is... as soon as belief is, but yeah, there's no more pure perception. But in the phase of interest where there is this magnetism but it's not quite belief, it still seems like it's not that pure perception is lost, but it's almost like the windows are closing.

Yes, yes, you're right that mostly in pure perception it's quite universal, it's broad, it's full of light. Now we become mostly like this in the hypnosis of some belief. Usually it may happen that if the body is in some severe pain or something like that, then it may happen naturally that all our attention seems to be sucked into that. But usually in pure perception, your field of vision is quite universal.

Father, this I see sometimes when the pull inward is very strong, the vision actually also withdraws. It's no longer clear.

Yes, so you just find that like in satsang so many times my eyes are just closed because... yeah, if that is happening, that's very natural. Pure perception not just of the world, like even if the pure perception is that of some inner light or that of sheer darkness, it's still perceived, see? But if you try to just... what happens when your eyes close? Because I don't want to say something and all these things become benchmarks. So I don't want to see what happens when you get pulled in. What happens? What is perceived in the absence of the perception of this outer world?

Nothing there, just like just the presence.

Okay, so there's a presence that is not the tangible one, Father. Not the Saguna presence. So sometimes there's a perception of something beyond that, and in that, if the eyes are open, this whole image becomes like a negative slowly, slowly. So that we make sure we get every point, because Maya can hide in the subtlest of things. So it's very important to go really slowly. So we close our eyes, our attention is being withdrawn. Then you said that there's a presence there which is not the Saguna, but it is... the attention is going to that which is witnessing?

Okay, yes. Are we... the witnessing is of the withdrawal of the attention, Father.

Yes, yes. So it is witnessed that attention is withdrawn. Yes, yes. But what is perceived when attention is withdrawn? Then what is perceived? Huh? You can notice, take a moment. So in this spectrum of attention, you see, you can have this whole world with all its colors and shapes and sizes, or when it's withdrawn, then what happens is that it could become just like a dark perception, like an emptiness. Or it could be withdrawn and you could be in the presence of some like light or something that we can't really describe. Let's say it becomes completely dark, you see? The first one, which is it becomes completely dark, we close our eyes. But even that is perceived, isn't it? You see? So in the waking state, we cannot avoid perception even if attention is withdrawn.

And shapes and sizes, or when it's withdrawn, then what happens is that it could become just like a dark perception, like an emptiness. Or it could be withdrawn and you could be in the presence of some light or something that we can't really describe. So let's say it becomes completely dark, you see. The first one, which is it becomes completely dark, we close our eyes, but even that is perceived, isn't it? You see, so in the waking state, we cannot avoid perception. Even if attention is withdrawn completely, it still shows you some darkness, some empty space.

Usually this, when it happens with eyes open, yeah, um, this imagery, what is seen as vision, yeah, uh, that first becomes like a negative, like a film negative, and then it's, it goes on dimming and dimming further when the eyes are still open. And that is where I get confused when you say that when you are in pure, when you are in the Absolute, um, this is actually clearer. Yes, but for me, it's, it always becomes dim like that.

I know that sometimes our eyes are open and attention is withdrawing and we go into a deeper recognition, you see. But um, that is in, at least let me say it this way, that in my experience, it is not like when day-to-day life is happening, perception continues and the world is very alive and full of light, is it? So that is the usual, open and empty. But it can happen, so don't beat yourself up over it or don't feel like something is wrong somewhere. If it is naturally withdrawing and the world is dissolving in front of you and you're just turning inwards that way, then let that, let that process unfold. It's okay. It's okay.

See, initially it may happen that, like Gopala also asked me many years back, that 'I am awareness' is fully apparent to me with my eyes closed, you see. Instantly my eyes are open, it, that, that knowledge seems to be lost, you see. So it can happen like that. But as you go along, you notice that eyes closed or open actually really doesn't make a difference to the recognition of the true Self. But these are organic things, so don't, don't try to meddle with them. Let them unfold. It's so, if your attention is fully withdrawn and you, then it's in the heart and then you're being guided, then you don't have the question anyway where the guidance is coming from, isn't it?

That's where the mind pops in. Um, and you know, it takes a form of a fear that, you know, either it says, 'Oh, Father said no, it should be, his vision should be clear,' and then the attention goes onto that thought and then, you know, it takes over. Or there is a fear that, okay, everything, everything is, you know, some form of... so when it is, attention is in that withdrawal, it's almost like, it's like almost samadhi. It's like an almost samadhi state. I hope I'm not confusing you. So it's just like the world is vanished and you're just within. Then I don't feel like you can doubt where the guidance is coming from, you see. It's only when so-called daily life is happening and you're being guided, but you're not sure whether the mind has you or you're being guided by the heart. You then just see whether your, the world is just blurring out and you're just thinking, thinking, or whether it is naturally unfolding from your heart and the world is still very alive and vibrant.

I would like to say yes.

Uh, so when you said in one of the satsang that, 'How many times you will have to come for this satsang and when you will be awake?' I said like that, 'How many times will you come?' I just, actually one of the satsang you were telling to someone asked, you said. So that really got thing in me. And then that, so last one week or 10 days I was contemplating and I had this misconception that when you do contemplation it happens in the head. Yes. So once you told that no, when you are with yourself in the deep silence you get the guidance. So that was very striking to me.

So last four, five days I'm seeing that, you know, the life is just going, you know, a quick second and I'm not able to do, you know, getting back to myself and things like that. Life too much is happening, too much is happening and I'm not getting time to be with myself, whether it's office hours, it starts in the morning seven by the time you come. So three, four days back I was just, when I got up, I was in that, you told that first thing you do is come back to yourself. I did that and suddenly that thing came to mind: 'Just drop this time, this rushing, you stop.' Yes. And I just dropped that rushing that I have to go to office, I have to get ready, and it just brought me to myself. I was there in that mode for almost 45 minutes to one hour.

Then I went to office, everything was fine. When I reached office, stepped in again, that thing started, you know, this phase was here, now I have to apply my skills, people will approach me at work. But I had this faith, you know, let me continue with this. And you also told that when you are with yourself you'll be guided exactly. So for 15, 20 minutes I was with myself, people are coming and suddenly this non-doership started coming. Yes. When this non-doership started coming then I thought, yes, things are happening and my mind is not working, I'm still with my heart. It is full of, bubbling with joy, cheerfulness. Last four, five days it is happening like that.

And also you told that once you are guided by your heart you do things better than what you are planned to do. Well, better according to God, not according to the mind. So it started happening that way. Many critical situations came but I was very like light, normal and continuing in this space and I'm, it's very good.

I'm so happy to hear this. So good. It is like the food is offered, it's being eaten, no? And eaten and digested. So I'm happy to hear that. It's simple like that. If you keep it simple like that, start with God's presence in the morning, yes, then move, allow that to move you. Yes, you will be tempted by the mind, so stay with your heart. Remain empty, remain in love, remain with the prayer, remain in the inquiry. So many tools are there, but we have to apply, have to say like that.

And then you test. Oh, I went to work also and usually all that shakes me up, makes me all mental, but I decided I'll stay. And not that anyone can say that I was 100% always in the heart, but good, no? Even if you say, um, I reminded myself over and over and I stayed in God's life, and then it started seeming more natural. And my fears about work not happening, they were unfounded. My fears about being able to do things were not do things were unfounded. It just flows from the... yeah, keep going.

I saw a video today where there's a bunch of camphor trees, they're all growing together in a forest. And they have something called crown shyness. I sent to some of you. So their branches and leaves, they're in a very close space, but the branches and leaves don't touch each other, you see. So their shapes are like this, like that, you see. So what is that intelligence which makes them grow like that, you see? So those are the tops of the trees and they don't connect. It's like they keep the right amount of distance from each other. How do they know that? What guides them? You saw it's multiple trees, yeah, it's many trees growing together but the tops don't touch in the very confined space. They called it crown shyness. They showed the shapes like that. Crown shyness, they said.

So there is a very innate intelligence which is running this world. So when you go to work, say non-doership came, but when we are in the non-doership, then also actions are moving. What is that intelligence which moves those actions? It's the same that does this crown shyness. There's a question: 'Father, can the guidance come in the form of me as a thought or is it always the mind?' Consciousness can use every tool at its disposal. But for those of us in satsang and who have the sensitivity to meet the heart, we can just fully let go of the mind and live from the heart.

For those who need to be blessed in that way and they're not yet aware of the possibility of intuitive guidance, then they may need to rely on signs in the world or something comes to them in the mind, you see. God, of course, everything is subservient to God, you see. God can use everything. But for those of us who are now mature enough in satsang to follow our heart guidance, we don't have to worry about anything in the mind. You wanted to ask? See, good. It's good if you can just, it's very sweet if you just offer some guidance and it's being received.

Like I told Peter that he was getting caught in his mind a bit when he was sitting in front here, so then I noticed he's really been fully present. Of course the mind must be tempting from time to time, but even that, just to take these small instructions and just to apply them is more than enough. So we don't have to always wait for the big events. We don't have to wait for the spiritual fireworks. We don't have to wait for big, big things. Even these small things, if you just apply, it's good.

Um, when I'm chanting sometimes it's like this room also, when I'm chanting, um, sometimes it's, sometimes it's... so I want to take God's name, yes. I want to, every Ram is like heartfelt, is you know, yes. Um, many times it's effort to even chant. And uh, what makes it effortful have you noticed? Because I'm so much in the head. Exactly. To chant is effort, like Georgie was also saying, to come to satsang is sometimes... exactly. But when you're here you don't want to leave. Like I don't want to leave when I'm chanting, exactly. But when I'm there I don't want to come to, exactly what you saying, the hot water, cold water.

And it's very painful, Father, when, when I'm there, I'm there. It's a, it's a comfortable hell like you said. Only when I'm out I realize that, oh, you know, I was in this. But when I'm in it and it's dirty, yeah, but it's comfort, it feels okay, it feels normal. Only when I'm out I see that it's not okay.

Yeah, the mental prison, mental oppression doesn't seem strange or absurd in the usual human condition because it feels like everybody's living like that. Then when you encounter your presence, God's presence within you, or you come to satsang, then you, something recognizes that there's another way to live, you see, a higher way to live. And um, and that you can emulate, that you can follow. But uh, the mind's whole attempt is to make this experience full of suffering, the hellish experience seem palatable, seem manageable, you see.

It can even pretend as if it is winning in this world, which is eventually going to lead to the deaths of that which we take ourselves to be, when no winning is actually possible. Everything that we think we achieved is, is going to die. It convinces us that we can win. So its whole game is to not just make it a comfortable hell, but also to try and convince you that you must become the king of this hell. Because you don't just want to be anybody in this realm, you want to be special. You want to be like, 'I used to,' and that if nobody's getting it then we are fine, if others are getting it I'm not getting it, then problem, you see.

We should actually be happy, you see, for our brothers and sisters, then that becomes a problem. And then once we believe that we are getting it, we want to be the only one who gets it, everyone else is faking, I am the only one. So it wants to make us the king of whatever realm. Then it is not enough, you see, that okay, now I've elevated myself this way, then what is the next, what is the next, what is the next? So the mind's endeavor is to try to replicate your truly Godly nature by making you the king of hell. It's a very absurd sort of thing to say, that's what it wants, is the god of hell, because it'll still be in the realm of death, it'll still be in the realm of pride and attachments and suffering. But we try to make it palatable, we try to make it manageable. The core of that mechanism, like learned behavior, to try to maximize pleasure, yes, yes, pleasure seeking, pain avoidance, all of that is part of that exactly, needing instant gratification, the whole shreya and preya thing.

Godly nature by making you the king of hell—it's a very absurd sort of thing to say. That's what it wants; it is the god of hell because it will still be in the realm of death, it will still be in the realm of pride and attachments and suffering. But we try to make it palatable; we try to make it manageable. The mechanism of that, like learned behavior, is to try to maximize pleasure. Yes, yes, pleasure-seeking, pain avoidance—all of that is part of that, exactly. Needing instant gratification, the whole Shreya and Preya thing.

If you ask a Vedantin what is the right way to live, they will say that you must avoid Preya and always go toward Shreya. Preya is short-term pleasure but long-term misery, and Shreya is short-term discomfort or pain but long-term peace, long-term absence of suffering. So, to let go of the mind can also feel like that, because the mind is offering you ice cream and you say, 'I stay with my heart.' It doesn't feel like that in that moment, you know? So, this is the nature of the human condition which the sages have seen thousands and thousands of years back. But just because they've seen it doesn't make it easier for us; we have to apply it in our life.

What is good, what is true, what is right has to come from God's light, from God's presence. The instant you find yourself believing that you are right, where is God? Have you seen? The instant you find yourself believing that you're right about something, your whole even outer expression becomes Godless. It becomes... if something gets me right now, it's not so I have to act badly. That's why I said that if God is not seeming real to you right now, you are in hell. It may seem like a strong thing to say, but that is the hell. There is no other hell. The only hell is this: taking only the visible to be true, only my mind to be right. That is the only hell there is. That is more than enough hell to make us suffer, you see? We don't need any more roasting than that. This world is enough to roast us completely.

So, that is the difference. Maya—to be in Maya is to be in hell. See, Maya is a more palatable word, actually. But to live where death is true, where suffering is true, where pride is true, where oppression is true—what other hell do we need? If you can die, where could you die? How is it possible that you can die? You see, I don't know if I'm able to express what I want to say. If you can suffer, if you can get angry with a brother or sister, you see, if you can oppress somebody to the extent of... in the human condition, we had things like slavery. To that extent, then what other hell do we need? Is this not enough?

If you can enslave whole nations and continents for the sake of money, you see, if you can kill each other for some line on the map, if you can kill each other because we pray to a different aspect or a different name of God—the same God, but we are willing to fight and hurt and kill each other for that—what other hell do we need? There is no other hell imaginable. This is enough. But this is what living in the ego makes us do, like Gollum in Lord of the Rings: 'My precious, my precious.' That is the ego's voice.

You say, Father, that I don't have my own will. Like, it's either the will of the mind or it's the will of God. Yes, sometimes I notice that—not always—but I see that I'm just obeying the mind. It's telling me, 'Do this, say this, wear this, don't wear that, don't do that.' You know, 'Say this so that you come across as wise,' or 'Don't say this because you'll come across as a fool.' Just following.

Very important. We will be servants, but whether we are servants to God or the mind is up to us.

Many times I don't see it as me being obedient to the mind. Exactly, I see that it's me.

Yeah, and it's most difficult for all of you to see it when the mind is offering you spiritual imagery, spiritual advice. 'See this, so people think you're more spiritual, how much you've understood.' You'll see, they'll start to believe or they'll start to be impressed. And any realm that we are attached to, whether it is spirituality or work or money or sports or even helping people—there's so much pride in the so-called NGO space. It gives you ways to be in hell in the most beautiful subtext, context. Have you seen how the mind can make hell out of the most beautiful thing?

You could be in the Satsang hall. Suppose one day that everybody is experiencing God's presence, living in His light all around you, but if your mind has got you that day, it doesn't feel like the Satsang hall. It doesn't feel like God's presence. It just feels like... so this is our own private heaven or hell. Our life is either the temple of God or to live this hellish experience full of suffering. So, when the Buddha said that the world is suffering, we must not take that statement lightly, because that is a statement about Maya.

The more you get caught in this Maya, there's no escaping it. We feel that, oh, by spiritual achievement or being seen as somebody special, or if the whole world calls you like 'Mahaguru' or something like that, you will escape your mental hell. If it is coming from a place of pride, you won't. It is better to be a beggar on the street which nobody recognizes, but if you are in God's presence, that is a life that I would give if I had to give my children one of the two options. You see, my biological children also, and all of you also.

On one side, you are the kings of this world because you've attained, according to the eyes of the world, the highest accomplishments, you know? And everybody bows down to you and says, 'Mahaguru, Mahaguru.' You get all the respect, the comforts, the material comforts, everything, but you're not living in God's presence, you see? Or you're just a humble beggar on the street who doesn't know where the next meal is going to come from, your clothes are tattered, but you are living in God's light, God's presence. It's not a question for me which one I would pick for my kids, including all of you.

A few weeks back, we won't name names, but someone was telling us about somebody. He said, 'But they are just performing.' Such a sad thing. In the name of God, somebody becomes a performance artist, basically a dancing monkey repeating the name of God. What a wasted life. So close, so close, and yet so far. Because the words are all true. The words are all true, talking about God, quoting the Gita, all those things. But where is the... so that's why 'God for God's sake' comes in. Because the instant it becomes about anything else—about my spirituality, about how people see me, about my relationships, about respect and anything—it could seem very even humble, but the instant it becomes about something else, know that the mind has you.

So, am I saying that everyone has to become a monk, a renunciate, or do anything in the outer? No, not at all. But allow that to unfold from your heart. He said he went to... in a way, I'm paraphrasing, he said he went to work and remained with himself, with God's presence, but the work happened. So who is doing it? God was doing it. God is already running our life, and all the things that are supposed to happen in our life also will happen. But you can do it in a way that you remain in God's temple, or you can do it in a way that you make a hellish realm of suffering out of it.

That is why if you're drawn to chanting, as opposed to the inquiry or just remaining anchored in love, then I would recommend it to everyone, actually. Especially if your mind is especially pushing you that 'the chanting is not for you,' then you must try it. But if you are drawn to it, then initially it will seem difficult. It will seem like the mind resists it with all its might. It will keep saying, 'Stop, stop.' It'll keep questioning everything. It'll doubt what the Guru says. He said he'll doubt the teaching, the teacher, and yourself—everything, it doubts.

Who was saying the other day that 'my mind just doesn't like you'? Someone else was saying... so that is very natural. In fact, if your mind is always loving me, then there's something strange. How many of you have not felt like attacking me, at least inside, when you are irritated or frustrated about something? You felt like... never? So, but it's very natural if it happens, because it's not me that is attacking you; it's attacking anything that can bring you to God's light, to get you to live in God's presence.

Who was saying... was I having this dream? Somebody was telling me that the mind was telling me... he was telling me the mind was telling me things, but the actual idea was for me to leave Satsang. So just leave this thing. Any of you reported to me that it just says, 'Run, just leave it. Take a break, take a break. Too much is happening, it's too much too soon. Take a break.' Huh? 'Your problems will be over if you just...' Yeah, all the problems will be over. It's easier on Zoom, just go back and hear on Zoom, come back later. Most kids who leave say, 'It's not... I mean, hopefully they say it's not you, it's not you really, but I just need to grow a bit more. I just need to be more ready for this.' It's your mind's intention to run.

It's like that revolver scene. Yes, exactly. The other day I was sitting in Satsang and it was like, 'Don't look at Father, don't look at him, don't look at him.' And I couldn't look at you, you know? For a few minutes, I could not look at you, even though you kept looking like you do always. And that revolver scene came to me, that it's literally like that. Like, 'He's against you, don't look at him.' And then in a few minutes, I could.

Exactly. That's the hypnosis. Those are the minutes of hypnosis. 'No, no, he's against you.' So absurd. It's so absurd, Father, because in my heart I know that... the only solution... it was telling me that he is the problem. Yeah, he is the problem. And when it comes to you, then I know it's on steroids. It is natural for it to attack me.

It builds up, Father. Every day there's a little bit of like that fuel, like a little bit of poisoning. And then when it comes... the serpent's voice. Yeah, and when it comes to you, then I really know it's on steroids. And when it's attacking you, then it's really got me by my throat.

If God is seeming real in your heart, no, that is the rule you must apply. If your presence is apparent to you and something wants to tell me something, attack me or give me some guidance, you must share openly in Satsang. Because I'm under no delusion that something perfect is unfolding in this life; this one is as foolish as they come. So, it's like that. But I know that. So we must separate the two things. One is that when the heart guides you and says, 'I don't like what's happening in this Satsang,' or 'Is Father really seeing this? Maybe I should point it out to him,' please do share. I am very open to hearing that.

But when it's pure just mind attack, which is actually attacking you—when the mind attack comes, who is it an attack on? You see, it is attacking you. It is attacking your ability, it's wasting your time away from living in God's life. And this is why I keep saying, and I don't know how it is heard, but this whole game is about time. This whole game is about time. So even the mind will also comment on the mind itself so that you will stay away from God. You'll do anything so that you'll stay away from God. Every trick in the book.

You said it's really attacking you. Yeah, it is really attacking you. If it could get... like it is attacking you. What is an attack? What is the winning in this war? Time spent away from God. So when it is saying, 'Oh, like this, but like that, and like this and like that, but you're right,' and now time is spent away from God, you see? Of course, it would love to attack this one also because then no Satsang, no trouble for the mind, you see? So of course it can attack this one through my children, all of you as well. So when you come to the right place in your heart, then just don't leave it. At least don't leave it for the same old, same old, same old stuff. You know, the vendor comes with the same stuff you saw last week and you said, 'No, I don't want it,' and he comes back with the same stuff. You'll say, 'No, get some new material.' It keeps troubling you in the same thing. As normal as this hell is, I'm inflicting this on the entire world.

Attack this one through my children, all of you. So when you come to the right place in your heart, then just don't leave it. At least don't leave it for the same old, same old. Same old stuff. You know, the vendor comes with the same stuff you saw last week and you said, 'No, I don't want it.' And he comes back with the same stuff. You'll say, 'No, get some new material.' It keeps troubling you in the same thing. As normal as this hell is, I'm inflicting this on the entire world. Yes, I have, and I continue to. You know, all who live in heaven become the salespeople of Heaven. All who live in Maya become the people of Maya. They don't want to, but it happens because everybody is constantly teaching. Everybody's constantly teaching their way of life to anyone who comes in contact with them. You don't have to wait for a pedestal chair to become a teacher. We are constantly teaching. What are we teaching? Are we teaching God, or are we teaching selfishness? So you become an ambassador to wherever you live.

And you talk to your friends. You noticed, isn't it? If you try to talk about spirituality, most of them will say, 'No, no, you be happy. I'm not interested.' Is it because it's too opposed to their way of life? You see, where they're living, it can seem too radically different. Whatever makes you—huh? Whatever makes you happy. Yeah, it is whatever makes you happy, but they are scared of not being right about life. Because if you can come in and something starts getting scared the minute you start talking about things which they don't understand, then it feels like you're shaking up their house of cards which they've built up with a lot of effort, you see. Maybe even the spiritual house of cards, you see. But then you go and say, 'Have you met God? You speak so much of spirituality, have you met God?' It's like, 'Don't talk to me, don't question me, you do your thing.'

How is it that 99% of spirituality is absent of spirit? It's only a—there's no spirit. Hardly anyone speaks of God. Spirit is the presence of God, no? The Atma is what? Whose presence is Atma? Is it some human committee created, 'Oh, let's give Atma to everyone'? No, isn't it the presence of God? But hardly anyone speaks of God in spirituality. I'm saying mostly just talking about the world and me, and the world and me. The rebellion religion, because religion is about Antahkarana and breaking it down. But as long as they don't call it spirituality, it's okay. If it is like a way of life, if it is like the right way to live, everybody has the right to present their own idea of what is the right way to live. Yeah, this is the weird thing in New Age spirituality; it is empty of God.

To share by God is any mental intent?

See, the intention has to come from your heart. You have to just live there. You demolish that apartment there, just live in your heart. Any add-on is—yes, any add-on from here. Otherwise, in the mind and intellect, it is really not possible to determine what is good and what is bad. How long have humans been in existence? You know these things usually. You are very scientifically inclined, or let's say whatever. So let's even say that in this way of life, we've lived for thousands of years now. Can anyone tell me, is it good or bad to give money to a beggar? For thousands of years we've encountered this; we don't know the right answer because there is no right answer in that way. It has to be in the moment from the heart.

Guidance cannot be received in the moment from the mind. The mind will only have, 'No, no, this one will just go and drink,' or 'This one will just waste your money,' some idea like that, you see. But you may actually meet someone who really is genuinely in need of food or in need of shelter or in need of something. Only your heart can guide you what is the right thing to do, and that goes for all things. He is using that as an example to show you that we actually, as humanity, have a lot of pride about knowing so many things, but the most basic things we haven't figured out. That's why philosophers are still debating what is the right mode of ethics: categorical imperative or utilitarianism? What is the right way to be? We don't know because it doesn't exist there. It exists here.

Father, I mean, now having gone through this journey, it seems so odd that 'Who am I?' is so rare to even ask the question.

Exactly, exactly. You know, you can go through your whole life and never encounter this question. And when you look closely, you know, the experiencing is that the first thought is the wrong one. And it's like, you know, the world is full of everything except for questioning the first thought. Exactly. Isn't it absurd that apparently seven-something billion of us—how many will really question who they really are? That's why I love that video of Shiva and Hanuman Ji also. Hanuman is not asked 'Who am I?' Lord Shiva comes to him and says, 'Who are you, Hanuman?' 'I'm Hanuman.' 'I'm not asking for your name.' 'I'm a vanara.' 'I'm not asking for your species.' 'I'm this one's son and this one's son.' 'Not asking for your lineage. Who are you?' And in that instant, Hanuman also realized that he doesn't know. So at least he comes to the 'I don't know.' How many of our brothers and sisters will come to this 'I don't know'? Such an auspicious 'I don't know.'

We don't know. Even the animals, we take them to be, you know, less developed or less evolved and so we can own it. But we don't know what the consciousness of a bird looks like. Whether the bird feels like it's a bird or whether it feels like it's, you know, God with wings. We don't know how it is experiencing, isn't it? But it does follow. I've always picked on this human arrogance. We are the best, we are the highest, God made us in His image.

Just on arrogance's point, one funny thing is coming to say about—were you there when somebody said, 'I'm talking to my plants every day,' and I said, 'Please stop'? He's like, 'You're so great, I talk to my plants, the plants are flowering because of that.' Please, we must get a check on our pride. No? What, God is not running that plant's life well enough? We have to talk to it for it to flower better? And then, 'I talk to molecules of water, they become beautiful shapes.' So we have to at least confine our pride to humanity itself. Why trouble poor water and poor plants with our pride? Sorry, yeah.

Just on his question or point that a whole life can go by without that question of 'Who am I?' But like, I live with a house help in my place and, you know, he does everything like literally like a mother. And I've been living with him for two and a half years now. I've never seen him upset, agitated. The way he treats my dog, my guests, my kids who show up—I mean, it's just like joy all day long. What I do, and I curiously observe him, like I feel like he's a way more evolved being than I am. And then what's funny is Adeta had done some course at Yale on happiness or whatever, a six-month course. And then she had finished that and she was at home and she was observing this at home. She's like, 'Dad, Bublu Bhaiya has not done any courses, but he just seems very joyful.' I said, 'Yes, I'm also observing the same thing.' But then I was like, 'Okay, what is his secret?' I'm trying to figure it out. Very peacefully listens to Krishna bhajan from morning till evening. I'll step into the house at any random hour of the night if I'm out, you know, he's never watching crazy stuff on TV. He's always watching some very spiritual program. So I'm sure he's not asked that question, but he's found his own way. So it's like amazing to see that. Like yesterday, when I went home after satsang, there were diyas lit over at home. I was like, real joy. He had no pride. You know, like you said, right? If the temple creates pride, then it's a bad thing. But if it creates humility and genuine joy—I just really saw that in his face.

I see this also, that I used to work in the ashram, I used to run a health center there. People are so happy. Just a few kilometers away, they're so happy. It's just they have to work every day for food, literally hand to mouth, you know, daily wage earners, people who work in houses. All of these people, they smile so much more. Those who in a way live a surrendered life, in a way I feel they learned to live in the heart more deeply. Seen that also in the villages also, I find the same thing. You all notice like this? Or he saw your painting and he's so innocent, he's like, 'Namaskar.' And then now I put it up on my family room where I play the guitar and all, so he comes every morning and he does namaskar to you. I invite you guys home, you have to see him in his space. But he's welcome to come anytime.

My expose on the mind. Yes, no, no, something—the mind thing. Hearing that, no, I meant on the mind. Hearing that, it's coming up in me instead of being grateful, why God is to find myself and complicating my life so much instead of—

Yes, the mind attacks it in this way. Yes, that to come here and to just—so complicated. Yes, it's complicated. It all leads to your questioning your own faith about whether you are cut out for this or not, whether you're meant to do this or not. Like my children, a few of them have asked me after being in satsang for many years, 'I don't know if I'm really cut out for this.' What does that mean? So what I said, what came to say was, then what is the second option? Suppose you were not cut out for this. Suppose it's the most difficult thing in the world to be in God's presence, to be in God's life. Most difficult. So suppose you say, 'It's too difficult, I can't do it.' Then what is option two?

No, I have to do it.

You have to do it. Yes. Once you have that spirit, you have that deep clarity that 'I have to,' then the mind can't say, 'Oh, I don't know if you're cut out for this.' It's like to paraphrase Plato's cave metaphor: once you see that there's a true world out there, you cannot agree to live pretending as if the shadows is the real world. You know Plato's story, right? So in a way, The Matrix also represents that. There's a character in The Matrix who says, 'I know it's not real, it's just a program, but I can taste this steak, I can enjoy this wine, I'm fine.' Is it? So that's what it really comes down to: whether we are willing to accept our life as a lie or move to the truth, even especially when it seems difficult. So if you have to, then complicated, easy, doesn't matter.

But why God is not helping me a little bit more to take decisions or to show me? Why God? We can—the 'why' question. But even especially, why God?

Yes, 'Why God doesn't help me more?' Can we really say He's not? Yes, can we really know what anything is for? Or maybe He is guiding me but I'm not recognizing it. What ability do we have to judge and say He is helping me more than enough or less than enough? Where do we have that capacity? No, it's more my mind which attacks, and it can—it's like you have to admire its courage. It can attack God, Guru, everyone. Just like boom, boom. 'Why God doesn't?' How does it have that courage to even say that? Talking about God, the light of this universe and trillions of universes like this is nothing for Him. That God, real, real presence, real being called God. And the mind says, 'Why?'

So the Book of Job is very, very good. It's really good. You know about this? I mean, I was joking that you had to come to India to become a Christian again. Yeah, the Book of Job is one of the books in the Bible; I would recommend it to everyone. It's very strong, very tough read, but if you really meet it and read it as if it's happening to you, it's really strong. But it just gives you so much strength inside. I'm not—just look for it online. How you say in German? It's somebody—then are you helping them so that you feel good, or are you helping them because you truly want to help them? Because you could just be doing it because you're allowing your ego to bloat that, 'Oh, I donated this money to this one.' And that, whether you share it with someone or not, as is said.

It's a very tough read, but if you really meet it and read it as if it's happening to you, it's really strong, but just gives you so much strength inside. Just look for it online. How you say, are you helping them so that you feel good, or are you helping them because you truly want to help them? Because you could just be doing it because you're allowing your ego to bloat, that 'Oh, I donated this money to this one' and that. Whether you share it with someone or not is secondary, but you may be conducting an act to perpetuate the ego and the mind and not because it's coming from within.

So what should you do? Should you be weary and say, 'Woah, woah, woah, it's coming from the mind' and not help the person? Or should you help the person anyway because at least you helped them? And because we don't know, we have to go to a deeper place where you can trust that guidance. So we can't template it and say we should always do like this. We have to say moment to moment, moment to moment, what is the heart guidance? And you'll find it's very unpredictable, and that seems like a risk sometimes. It's just like you meet someone, your mind is telling you this one is a complete con, but your heart is saying give away everything you have. That can sound strong.

So we get to that level of faith as you go along. Just how, what to do, is follow your heart. That's why the other day we were talking about exploitation and being taken for a ride. These topics were coming up in the satsang also. I was just jokingly saying, 'Please take me for a ride. I just feel like I don't go on enough rides. Somebody take me for a ride.' How will you take me for a ride? Suppose you give me some story and you take all my material possessions. Okay, take it. Is that the ride? How can you take me for a ride? What I really have, I want to give everyone, you see? What I really have, my true treasure, I want to distribute more. Not enough people are taking it. And the false treasures anyway I don't have much of, so I don't know what can be taken. But it's available.

This is attack and defense way of living, protecting these paper and plastic things, just notional ideas. There is a lack of faith also that God is just. You see, where does the notion of why should humanity be just come from? Because there's a deeper place where the sense of justice comes from. Just like the sense of truth, kindness, compassion, beauty—all these things come like a deeper moral compass makes us yearn for justice, or justice seems right. So it must come from God. So if there is a God, would He not be just? Could it be that there's an unjust God up there? Metaphorically, it can't be.

So if you have full faith in God's justice, why you have to take on such difficult problems to solve? Who's calling me? Who is serving me? Who is true? Who is false? He's seeing all this. He sees every heartbeat. He beats every heart. He's aware of every breath all of us take. Every breath. Time is His plaything. He is not losing time like us. It's a toy for Him. Nothing. So don't take on things which are His to manage. Experientially, the doer, the experiencer, all Him. All is His play inside Himself. You are the doer, you are the experiencer. Yes, please give him the mic before he finishes. Before the mic, somebody wants it to get over, he's like, 'Hide the mic!'

Um, that's relating to what you said about God's... the only justice existing is God's justice. We saw a film, Claudia saw it also, and it was a film about different people who were very religious. And there was a Jew and he was really... you could feel that he was really... he had really faith in God. And he said the biggest challenge for him was to ask himself why could the Shoah happen to those, to my people? Yes, and I had a lot of understanding for this big doubt. What is the... when the Nazis were... millions of the Holocaust, yes. Shoah is the Jewish expression for Holocaust. And that was his biggest challenge for his trust in God's justice. And I was very much with him.

Yes. God's light finds a way to shine through even in the most oppressive, mind-created circumstances that humanity has done to itself. Like if you see the movie, you know, 'Life is Beautiful.' Have you seen 'Life is Beautiful'? Such a beautiful movie. But it's like divinity, without calling it divinity, managing to retain a lightness and aliveness even in the most oppressive circumstance. So beautiful. There's so many stories of so much courage and valor and compassion and kindness. Everything. Completely to give up this idea of justice, like completely. Yes, help in front of God. It's done.

If these things don't shake us up inside, like they are shaking you, then we've not really met them. So I'm very happy that something is being met, that we really start to question where does morality come from? Where does right and wrong come from? There are many who don't believe or don't have faith, more importantly, in God strongly, that people should know right from wrong. So this universal standard of what makes right right and wrong wrong, where does it come from? If there's no common intelligence, no common substance called God, then everybody should be able to define for themselves. And that is the mind's idea of freedom anyway. 'I should do what I want to do' is the mind's idea of freedom. So that's why this path of desire fulfillment to freedom doesn't work, because desires just don't run out.

So how, before the mic comes... so how does a child, whether they are in any part of the world, you see, but they are five, six years old, and suppose they were never given a teaching about telling the truth is better than telling a lie, but somewhere they know not to lie. When they lie, their face shows it, you know, because they still have that childlike... no? So who has set all this in place? Where does it come from?

Father, I've many times noticed this from a long time actually. It's like when there's some injustice happening or something wrong happening, even to me, I really feel strongly the hand of God, Father. Very strongly. The presence is so strong. It is always like He just takes charge and really helps. And whenever I have been in some kind of a situation, a difficult situation, Father, I give up. Like, 'This is not in my hand.' You know, I've always got Him to take over, Father. That's... He's always taken over.

Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you for satsang.