“Am I Here Now?” and “Am I Aware?” What Is the Difference in These Two Questions? - 7th April 2023

Thank you. And I wanted to say, I don't know if what you shared, if it's completely apparent like that.

Just somehow the thing with this is that it's quite binary. Quite binary in the sense that it's just fully apparent or we are taking something else to be the truth. You see? Now also what could happen is that it is just simply apparent and it is so simple for the mind that it concludes that it can't be that way, it has to be something else. You see? So where will we go for the right answer about whether the truth is apparent to us or not?

Somehow to our intuitive insight.

Yes, and what is that insight telling you?

And also right now I'm present somehow.

Yes, and this presence is also apparent to you. You are aware of even presence. This is the simplicity of it. But the difficulty, it seems, is only when we try to swim in the well and the ocean at the same time. To swim in the well and the ocean at the same time meaning that we cannot really skip over like this in the sense that till we are empty, till we are pure-hearted in some sense—not in the way we usually refer to the heart, but most of us have a sense of this world will be empty of malice—till we are full of faith, till we are not teaching ourselves to be so special, then it seems impossible to remain in God's light. And until we come to God's light, without God's light, it is not possible to really come to or remain in the recognition of what we truly are. So right now is the best place to start for all of us. Don't try to squeeze 'me' and God into the same room. Yes, empty of all individual concerns and considerations. The light of your presence is unmissable in that way. And as the light of presence is unmissable, you also recognize that this being itself has no limitation and that I am aware even of this being.

I would say I'm aware of the being, but the being itself doesn't have any quality of its own.

Yes, this is where we get to the strangeness, the weirdness of it. You see, is being manifest or unmanifest? If it was purely unmanifest, then we would say it is a pure absence, isn't it? Completely unmanifest means pure absence. Then it would be very strange that we call it presence. Why would we call the presence absence? Then we say that Bhagwan said the core of your being is the heart. Why would the sage like Bhagwan say it is the heart and can be experienced in the heart region if it was purely unmanifest? Now, if you try to stop being, your attention will naturally also go towards a subtle vibration of your presence. As they try to stop being, it is not the same question as 'Are you aware now?' because in 'Are you aware now?' it doesn't matter where attention goes. But when I say 'Try to stop being,' although ultimately the answer does not depend on your attention, naturally it will gravitate towards the primordial vibration which I've been calling the tip of the iceberg. So coming back to the question: is it manifest or unmanifest? So it is manifest in this way that the pure primordial position of it can be tasted in the subtlest possible way, and yet it is unmanifest because it is clear that it is unlimited. It is clear that this space is appearing within that, this time appears within that, this universe appears within that. And that within which time and space appear can never be manifest, can never be perceived by us because our attention is not that vast; it is limited. So that's why I feel that the iceberg is a useful metaphor. Although there is a hook that we can latch onto, where that hook takes us is beyond conceptual and human understanding. And it is this hook which is a sign of great reassurance to some and a sign of great confusion to others. Because some may say that 'I don't believe in God, okay? I don't believe that there is any other force besides the physical forces like gravity and electricity and all of these things.' And if you were to ask them, 'Do you exist? Are you existent?' even they cannot deny that, you see? So at that point, if they don't get too much caught up in the mind and say, 'But this could be just my brain producing chemicals and all of that,' which is completely unverifiable because which brain is also not apparent to us—whether this is a dream or waking state is not apparent to us, so whether this is a dream body or this is a waking body is not apparent to us—so which brain are we talking about? But if you go with what our heart is telling us, if they can let go of conceptual understanding for a moment, they will recognize that this presence is something vaster than they have taken themselves to be. In fact, vaster than anything that anyone can ever take themselves to be. So without the subtlest taste of this presence, it would be very difficult for anyone to lead anyone to God because a switch directly from the idea of name and form being the only reality to the pure unmanifest being the only reality seems too difficult for most. Therefore this holy presence, this beautiful Satguru heart, is available for us to latch onto as a lifeboat when we are struggling with life's waves. So when you experiment with this question, 'Can I stop being?' is your insight purely empty of any taste?

Somehow I feel impossible to check right now.

I'm just going to remind you one more thing. So Bhagwan said in your heart, he really constantly speaks about the heart. In the Hanuman Chalisa we've been reading, it says, 'Please make a home in my heart.' Many times very poetically also to God, you see, 'Please make your home in my heart' or 'Your home is in my heart.' So is this purely romanticized ideas of the heart, or is there—and it doesn't have to be the heart there, I'm with you—it could be you could experience it anywhere. It doesn't even have to, you don't even have to say it seems to be localized in a particular aspect of the body. But because here it seems very clearly apparent in the heart, therefore I have to go with that. But I don't feel like Consciousness has to limit itself in that way, that it can only be experienced in this way. But I will say that it is a report of all the sages that this primordial home or I-am-ness becomes the lifeboat or the fishing hook or the holding point through which we can come to the unmanifest. And why do we say coming to the unmanifest? So it doesn't mean that it's just a sort of boatman or ladder or something like that. It is God itself. It is God's own holy presence. So there's no difference between God's presence and God. So is this presence manifest or unmanifest?

There is intuitive things like I remember saying this or, and it's like it's undeniable that there is like, like when the waking state comes when I wake up like that, there is like a liveness or something even even now, and like it's like a, or Consciousness maybe.

You know, if in the unmanifest, the unmanifest woke up, and even we would not say that I woke up because it's just so. In the unmanifest, the manifest wakes up, and the manifest is the manifest because it has the primordial vibration. So let's really look at this. Are you here now?

Yes, I'm here now.

Okay, is that same as saying that you are aware?

No.

What is the difference?

If I'm aware, I'm aware that, yeah, that's a good question. It's a very good, very good question.

Yes, so when we say 'Am I here now?' or 'Can I stop being?' it's not the same question as 'Am I aware?' It's not the same question. Both are intuitive insights, and yet intuitively we can get a sense of the vastness of Consciousness, the subtleness of Consciousness's presence as the primordial vibration, as well as that Absolute which is aware of Consciousness. I hear exactly what you're saying and it, I know it's...

Aware that—yeah, that's a good question. It's a very good, very good question, yes. So when we say 'Am I here now?' or 'Can I stop being?' it's not the same question as 'Am I aware?' It's not the same question. Both are intuitive in science, and yet intuitively we can get a sense of the vastness of Consciousness, the subtleness of Consciousness as presence, as the primordial vibration, as well as that Absolute which is aware of Consciousness.

I hear exactly what you're saying and I know it's true in my heart completely.

Where else do you need to know it? Nowhere else. I never asked, just nowhere else. You know it's true in your heart, then it's true in your heart. I'm saying it, so it must be true—is it an inference in that way? And you trust me and there is devotion and there is faith, therefore you will know conceptually that it has to be true, but it is not yet insight for you? Is that what you say?

That's what I meant. Also, the appearance of awareness is like 'yes,' and it seems like when you speak about the conscious vibration, it seems elusive. It seems this 'I am' is not aware, in the sense when we—what you expect—it's impossible for it not to be this. But if it is difficult, then how do we know that the two questions are different: 'Am I here now?' and 'Am I aware?' What is the difference in these two questions? Is it the same? 'I'm here now' or 'I am aware'—what's the difference? What's the difference in the two questions?

I know that without just knowing that, yes, it's a knowing. And 'I'm here' is in experience, yes. Oh, that exists, I exist. Is it manifest or unmanifested?

Yeah, that answer you have, which is that your insight as well. It seems like it exists, like it's manifest. It seems because—but also it's unmanifest stuff, I know.

Because you're not having an experience of its unlimitedness. You can't have that experience because you don't have the tool to have that like experience as a perception. And yet all of you mostly will see, and if you're being intuitive always, you will say that it is unlimited. So when we conclude that 'I am here' and also that 'I am unlimited,' what are we really relying on for these intuitive insights?

I cannot say that I'm unlimited. Like, I wouldn't say I'm limited, but yeah, it's not so apparent that I'm unlimited.

Yes. So what you're saying is that 'I can't find the limit or a boundary because I ran out of attention.' So can we say that your being is larger than your attention? Yes. And yet can we also say that you know being, and an aspect of your being can be brought into focus with your attention? Look at that. Let's look at that. So when Maharaja says 'Keep your attention on your being,' what was he talking about? Keep your attention in the sense 'I am'—all of us have heard this. So what are they talking about?

It is the attention is resting in the I-amness itself. It cannot go outside of the being. All right, so while we are having this conversation, she may want to say something. I just—it would say that the attention can bring us to the perceivable aspect, you know, of the being. Like you say, the tip of the iceberg. It could be like a vibration or something like that, you know, which is a bit perceivable. Although I can't say whether it is manifest or unmanifested, I can't say that, but definitely it's something which is perceivable.

And perceivable and manifest is the same thing. Okay. So you notice that there's a manifest aspect of it because of its perceivability, and you know the unmanifest of it because you know it intuitively. But one clue is: how big is your being? That's a clue. So you recognize that you can confirm that it has no limitations, but you can never confirm the absence of limitations of something with your attention, because that itself is limited. In fact, that was the point I was coming to: that with attention I cannot perceive the unlimited nature. It can only be done when I look—like a weighing scale that goes to 200, then you cannot say whether something is 500 or a thousand, you see? So you will not be able to say it's an infinite amount because the weighing scale itself is only up to 200.

So then in that case, part of the question—I sometimes maybe perceive that. So at this point I leave my attention and then only I can perceive this unlimited?

Yes. Whether you leave it or not, even if you keep it on the vibration or you keep it in the world, intuitively you can still have the sense of that. But without that intuitive sense of your being, you can never have the intuitive sense of being aware of awareness. That's right. That's what it was. Thank you. Actually, I wanted to play with this. Thank you, Father.

Is awareness—when we say that awareness is infinite or unlimited, I'm not able to relate to this with my experience because actually awareness is not in the sense that awareness is neither infinite nor infinitesimally small, you see? This just doesn't apply. This criteria which can have opposites just doesn't apply to it. So that which is aware of—which size and space and all of that—something to be very large also, it has to have at least some quality which is very large, isn't it? So what is that in awareness?

To something like that which is aware, we cannot point to its location, we cannot point to its size, because all of these things just don't apply to it. Because if it is very large, then it will still have to be somewhere for it to be large, you see? And that 'somewhere' had to be bigger than that to contain it. But because it doesn't even have the quality of shape or size or any quality whatsoever, it is pure Nirguna to any of the traditional empirical tools and constructs that we may have. This we can only know beyond conceptual knowledge, beyond empirical means. That is why Self-knowledge is the simplest and most difficult. Simplest if you're empty; most difficult if there's the mildest condition, mind is—no, mildest notion in mild disposition.

The other one, follow-up question into this: if I have a headache, I'm aware of my headache. So my awareness seems to be limited to or capable of sensing the pain in my body. So what is attention and awareness, but the difference between attention and awareness? Like, you bring attention to the headache, or are you aware specifically of the headache? Or I'll do the same thing: by paying attention to the headache, I become aware of it. My awareness is able to register the headache. But what I am saying is I'm not able to sense the headache of the person sitting next to me. So somewhere, is that a limitation of awareness? In the sense that I am aware of the setting sun, I can be, but not the pain of a person physically next to me. What is this kind of—it's a riddle.

So is the world real? Why is it unreal? So why—and why that question is important, then maybe I can find some visual ground to that. Is your dream real or unreal? Huh? Is it real? It can seem real. It is designed, whoever has designed it, to make it seem real. In fact, we could be having this conversation in a dream, you see? Now, if this is a dream and I tell you I have some pain in my knees but you don't experience it, then is that being real or unreal? So you would say that in my dream, only what I experience is real. Only that, you may say, although 'real' is still a question mark. You may see that only that exists which is my experience because it is my dream. Like in the dream, if you're looking at your room, what is outside your room?

Right. So whether it is a dream or not a dream, whatever it is, yeah, there are some things which I'm able to sense and some which I'm not.

Yes. But when you mean 'sense,' do you mean perceive or intuitively perceive? So when you dream also, that limitation is there. But in the dream, if you were to tell me, 'Okay, Father, I had this dream where I was in my life and we went to the ashram,' I said, 'Yes, that was happening in the room and I'm live.' But what was happening in Timbuktu in your dream? You wouldn't know Timbuktu, only my dream was about—she said. So does the pain that you are not aware of, can you claim its existence to be reality? Does the world that you are not aware of, can you claim its reality? We're not even coming to the Vedantic definition of reality and unreality. Everything that you perceive is not real anyway. So is this less than a dream or is this like a dream? So even if you don't take that definition or concept of reality and unreality, can anyone ever conclude that this is undoubtedly happening—that Gopala is having some pain that you are not aware of because he's telling you so? It questions the—and if that which is perceived itself is unreal, then what to talk about that which is just conceptual and not even possible? What does your heart tell you about that? You see, the same place where you recognize that you are aware. If it is telling you about the true nature of yourselves, try to rely on that for the true nature of the world as well. Because if you go with the 'seems to be,' the whole Leela is 'seems to be.' We can say instead of Leela, we can say 'it seems to be,' or instead of Maya, we can say 'seems to be.' I seem to have been born, I seem to die. Everyone around me seems to have been born, they seem to die. And yet all the sages tell us that there is no birth and there is no death. But if you were to value the 'seems to be,' then what are these strange ones saying? What is that which we know for a fact, which is beyond what seems to be? Is our presence 'seem to be'? Does awareness also 'seem to be'? What is beyond phenomenal perception and inductive reasoning? So let's remain in the same quote-unquote place where that which is beyond human comprehension is being discovered by us. And what is the answer coming from there?

Mind. You asked him, can we look at if you're aware of something? He said, 'I don't know.' Aware of your nose? Or you said, can we look at if the attention is there? Can you say more?

Yes. So when we say that there is pain, and we can say 'I was aware of the pain,' does that mean that when our attention goes to it, or are we saying that it's just pure awareness independent of perception? Attention goes to—attention goes to me. So in this world of this realm of perception, only that which we perceive we can say, 'This is what we perceive.' Whether it's real or unreal is still up for debate. Now, does that exist which we do not perceive? And how—what is the way in which we can know that this is only if I—no, it doesn't. Like, I can't—the mic doesn't have the room, it just helps it exists only in my imagination. I mean, in that sense, like if it can't exist in my imagination, then it exists only in my mind. See, again, if it exists in my imagination, then we can say it exists only in my imagination. Okay. But is it the same? That's what my question is. Is it the same to say 'I'm aware of the pain'? Is it okay to say 'I'm aware of the pain' like this?

It's okay when you're really diving in, and sometimes good too, because why that question is important is many times we confuse awareness and attention. Yes. So I was just making sure we are not doing that, because what attention goes through, we feel like, 'Okay, that is awareness.' Attention never goes to this house, although I feel like there's something that's not okay. I just want to clarify this: what is the difference between awareness and attention? Like here, I can say I'm aware of my being, and from my being the attention moves and I perceive. Okay, correct me if this is how I experience this. What did you ask just before this one? What is the difference between awareness and attention? Attention is attention. So if I knew that this universe is within you, and you know that through what? Intuitively. Intuitive insight is just bringing you like granules of knowledge which is unlimited from—

The difference between awareness and attention—like here, I can say I'm aware of my being, and from my being, the attention moves and I perceive. Okay, correct me if this is how I experience this. What did you ask just before this one? What is the difference between awareness and attention?

Attention is attention. So, if I knew that this universe is within you, and you know that through what? Intuitively. Intuitive insight is just bringing you granules of knowledge, which is unlimited, from awareness itself, from the Self itself. So, if I were to say that I am aware that this universe is within me, it would not be wrong. But if I were to say I perceived that this universe is within me, then that would be impossible. Yeah. So, although the difference seems minor because both are non-phenomenal, actually the difference is unbelievable. You see?

So, that which we are aware of, a very, very little tiny percentage of that our attention can go to. Very slow, yeah. So, that which I'm aware of... so you are aware that you are, yeah, but does attention go to that? We could stretch it to say, 'Yes, I have past life experience.' It was all right. It's not that kind of noise, but it's not that kind of... you see, now that which we are aware of, how do we know? Because everything that we are aware of, we are not... it's not bursting out of... so now you're saying aware of intuitive knowledge. So, we know what we are aware of. Like, we can convey what we are aware of only intuitively. But when you say, 'I'm aware of perception,' that is also intuitively known. Well, it's the same device. Like, I'm aware of perception, and that I'm aware of it is only intuitive to tell. There is no perception of that. Like, this perception, there's a concept in this intuition, you see? Yeah.

So, when I'm aware of perception, is it a perception that I'm aware of perception? No, it's not a perception. This is just a concept. Then is it just known like that? And that is what... that which is just known like that is intuitive, really. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah. So, I can say that everything that I know intuitively I'm aware of, but not everything I'm aware of I know intuitively. I lost you, or I can convey... so I can see that everything that I know intuitively I am aware of, isn't it? Oh no, say again. Everything that I know intuitively, yeah, I'm aware of. Yeah. I don't know, I'm not able to pronounce it. Let's take our time.

So, when we say I know intuitively, we're saying we are aware of, but not perceiving of or thinking of. Yeah, kind of synonyms. Yes, the intuitive knowledge and self-knowledge, which is kind of synonymous. But I'm telling you the difference. The difference is that I cannot see... I can say that everything that I know intuitively I'm aware of, isn't it? But can I say that everything I'm aware of I can say intuitively? There are many things which I can't say intuitively. Yeah, not necessarily perception. Like if I say... but then that would be to say intuitively what I'm aware of now, that millions of universes have come and gone within you. I can't follow you. You heard me say a million times that millions of universes have come and gone within me, you see? Now, I must be aware of that, that's why I'm saying it. But how do I know I'm aware of that? Because my intuition tells me. Yeah, there may be millions of things like that which I'm aware of, but my intuition doesn't bring it to the fore.

Waiting for things... the statement that you made, that the whole universe... I'm aware that the whole universe is within me. Now this, I am lost, because I can recognize awareness in me, or I recognize awareness, but beyond that, to relate this awareness to the universe or... that's exactly the point I was making, that I'm not even able to relate it to the headache of a person sitting next to me, let alone the whole universe, all the universes that have come and gone. That's my experience. I'm talking from my experience, and I'm not able to differentiate between intuition and awareness.

Okay, very good. So, that's good. Really slowly at this, because something is happening, you know? Something is going on where the sage, like Ashtavakra, says you are the boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universes come and go. Inside, these universes are just like fireflies; they come in front of me and they perish. You see? I also said, like Lalla or Kabir also said, that millions of universes like this have come and gone within. So, something weird is going on somewhere. So, how is it that they can say these things, and we know for a fact that they are not liars? You see? So, how is it that Ashtavakra Maharaj, all the Masters, and somebody or the other have said these things? So, are they speaking out of perception? Because they're also saying that perceptually everyone is the same; you are having the same experiences of the degree else. So, they are not speaking out of perception. Then what are they speaking about? And the clue is: where do I know myself as my unlimited being, or as myself as pure awareness? It's there. Where I know myself in this way, all these answers may get really revealed, not in the way that we usually look at perception or experiences.

Yeah, so we have to... so if it is not clear to us intuitively, then all we have to do is be patient and wait for it to flower, because it cannot be like... there's no mechanism to do it because it is beyond empirical means. I cannot say, 'Look more this way and it'll happen.' That... thank you. Everything that I can say intuitively, I can confirm that I'm aware of. Yes, this is so. Intuitively, I can say this world is within me. Time and space occur, arise within me; they are an aspect of my being. You see? Intuitively, I can see all of this. So, and I must be aware of them, and that is why I'm seeing them. But everything that I'm aware of may not have flowered in my intuition, nor may have come up intuitively.

For this part, something's happening here. I don't get this part. Yeah, everything that I'm aware of...

So, there are times where I can say that I have an intuitive sense that things will go like this, this will be good, this will be like that. You see? Um, all will be fine. Yeah, something like that. Sometimes I don't know, because they are not there intuitively. So, what do you mean by 'aware of'? Like, so... and yet, because I am it, you see? Like, you are it. Therefore, that which is the birthing ground of all of this must be aware of it, but is still not available intuitively. So, what is the difference between intuitive insight and that, that Supreme intelligence which knows everything? Some difference like that. Yes.

So, you can see that intuitively... like we talked about this, no? I said intuitively I had a sense that I had to come to satsang, although my body was very tired. Something just brought me there. But intuitively you cannot say, 'I know what's happening in um, here, there.' You see? What's happening, which I make it work? We can't see it always for everything. So, we'll do intuitive knowledge is like a subset of what we are aware of. You see? You cannot... knowledge is a subset. Is a subset, no, of what we are aware of. Yes, is of awareness, no. Like when you say what we are aware of, I always feel like there is an object. Are you looking at awareness as if it is attention or perception? No, no. But when you say aware of... so you're saying, 'It just came to me in my heart that tomorrow a beautiful unfolding will happen in your house.' Yeah, yeah. Do you... are you feeling that I was not aware of it earlier, or that intuitive insight did not emerge earlier?

Yeah, there was no awareness.

I must have been aware of it because I am that in which these universes come and go as fireflies, no? So, you're saying like the intuitive knowledge is a subset. I'm sorry, okay, say it your way. Sorry.

You're saying like, so when the intuitive... like some intuitive sense arises, it was... no, so I'm aware of it now. So, are you feeling that before its arising, awareness was unaware of it?

That's... so that is the catch then. Where did it... how? For it to arise from awareness, awareness must have been aware of it. Like, all the knowledge is in awareness, that's what I'm saying. But yet it is a father... like, okay, or it's clear that it arises from awareness, yes. Therefore, awareness has it all. Yeah, but we're inferring a bit, but it's okay. Yeah, you know, it's clear that it has it all. And yet if you say, 'Um, this one is falling a bit sick, what do you feel is going to happen?' I may say to you, 'I don't know, intuitively it's not clear.' And sometimes I may say, 'Intuitively I feel like it's going to be like this.'

So, I think then when I don't know, then I'm not aware of. Like, I never looked at this at all. It's like something very... like started... like intuitive insight is that which we are aware of, but is everything that I am aware of, is that available as intuitive insight to me right now? Awareness is aware of itself, that's... no, like awareness is itself all the knowledge. Exactly. But yeah, to say when you're using words, we can say awareness was aware of the intuitive... like, no. But then what should happen then is that because the sage is just living in the heart, then they should be living like a time traveler, no? Like, you know in a movie like... what is that, Groundhog Day? Where they know, 'Oh, car is going to come from here,' because it should be just... it doesn't happen. Why? It doesn't even happen like that because the heart makes available to those who are even living in the heart only that which is auspicious at that point of time, or what needs to be in its own intelligence. Okay. So, no sage can ever claim that, 'Oh, I know everything.' They can say that that intuitive ability which is here, in that all knowledge is proud, but I am just witnessing that. I cannot force it or I cannot compel it.

Father, Father, is it like this that... I mean, I don't remember the labels, but like the distinction you're making is one kind of knowledge that is self-knowledge, that I am aware, and then there's being, then there's the rest. And the other is whatever we parrot from God; He presents it to us and then we just say it. It's not... I mean, that's the following part and the knowledge part is different. The following and the knowing part, that's what you're saying. Are these the two categories?

Yes, you know, we can say like that, but it's more woo-woo than that. Like when I have the sense that this universe is appearing within myself, of course it is heart knowledge, but it is not that I don't have a sense of that besides just being the words which are emerging from my heart. But that knowing is that self-knowledge, that is the knowing part. You don't exactly know that these words are the right words to say when God presents it exactly. So, we don't. And he also recognizes the words are never accurately or adequately representing what... thank you, thank you. The comic book thing is very clear to me, that everything that has and will and is happening has already happened at some level. It's very, very apparent to me in my heart. But do I know every frame of the... like, can I reproduce every frame of the comic book right now? No, I can't. This is what you're saying exactly. But it may come, you see? It may come with something that's revealed, and I say something like that. Thank you.

Yes, so do some of you also have this sense that everything that has happened and will happen has already happened or is already somewhere? Or no? Some of you may have this sense. So, for those of you that have the sense, can you tell me what is going to happen at 10:25 a.m. tomorrow morning? You know what I'm saying? Most of you can't say. Maybe intuitively if you look right now and God's grace may come, but it's usually not like that where we can say. And yet we know that that... so when this notion of pre-determination is shared, it seems very linear to our mind, but actually that is what is implied: that every single possibility is already available. Is it somewhere? But can we say that this is how it's going to play out in our dream of life? Most can't. So, but available and happened, what is the difference?

Most of you can't say, maybe intuitively, if you look right now and God's grace may come, but it's usually not like that where we can say. And yet we know that. So when this notion of pre-determination is shared, it seems very linear to our mind, but actually that is what is implied: that every single possibility is already available. Is it somewhere? But can we say that this is how it's going to play out in our dream of life? Most can't. So, but available and happened—what is the difference? It has to happen for it to be available, yes. But all the possibilities are there, not just... but it's not like a happening. I feel like is what is happening.

How do you know that we are going into the future and not into the past? It's all, see, we make these very intellectual conclusions about life that the past was the past, the future is the future. How do we know? How do we know that we don't start off on the deathbed and we lead a life towards going to the mother's womb and returning back to the parents? But then is the past already happened or is the future already happened?

Yes, so that which has happened is past or future? So is it that which has happened is fine? Happened means already happened is past, yeah. And how is that different from future? How do we know that memory is not premonition?

Okay, let me say it in a way that is non-confusing. It is already timelessly present. Is that okay?

Like available, I understand somewhere. What happened when it is the future not happening? Is the past not waiting for us? Maybe all that we experience as the past is only what we see in memory, and memory only comes in the future. So when it comes, maybe there's no memory, then it becomes something which is perceivable and that becomes the past or the future. No? Yes, as you can see something. Yeah, because as you're talking, space and especially I wanted to bring in the comparison of time and space. And space is not linear, space is not here, and time is linear in our head. And now as you talk, I see, because since the beginning of our talk today, of this our exchange, looking at awareness as a sphere, as a space, and as an all-encompassing space. And now talk about past and future...

Actually, no, the audio is not good. Sorry. Should I start again? Yes, just the highlights now, yes.

I'm just saying, and now as you're talking about past and future being almost the same, because like a reflection of each other, it's reflecting each other. I see I have to... I see my feeling of you seeing the awareness as space, as all-encompassing space, is kind of confirmed to this because we are used to thinking in time and when we look at things which are the potential of awareness, everything is in awareness. Everything is in awareness, and awareness is kind of including everything, but we cannot... we are used to focusing in time and in linear things. So that's why we don't access the wholeness of our awareness. Because maybe I'm a bit confused in the way I express it, but I'm quite sure you can follow it.

So to me it is when you talk about intuition, like when you're talking about intuition, I see intuition is a kind of attention in the pure... the intuition moving into inside of pure awareness. You say I cannot access every time I want to a part of... I'm sorry, somebody was calling me... to something that can be in awareness without me being able to access it. So awareness is all-encompassing, awareness is really... and I see it in the way you talk, I feel it also in my sense of what is presence and being. So we are just trying to find our way out of a linear thinking into a circular thinking, let's say, or spherical thinking if we have to put it in a geometrical way.

So this is, for me, we are just learning today especially to look at what is insight, what is intuition and insight, and how we can kind of learn to focus this way. Because I'm quite aware that there are beings who are able to see each one's reality and unreality as something relative, but still everything is seen by this zero illusions that you can see, and you can see my illusions. And so this awareness exists, this intuition even exists. People who can see over distances very, very concrete things. All things are seen, but they are not seen in a linear way. That's all the thing I just get now, I just catch now. Thank you, thank you very much.

Very good. Okay, so I can't see who was speaking. Yes, my dear, please come.

I hope I didn't disturb the flow.

No, no, it's completely fine. It's just your audio is not great today, so we're all struggling to hear you a bit, but it's a nice support. Nice, thank you, thank you. And we wait for him to sit here. I just want to see that first time we are delving into this in so much detail. It's just hard to express. You want to say something or should we come back to you, my dear? I just want to say thank you. I don't know. Our beards are the same length almost. Thank you. There's no way back, sorry. I thought I'm going crazy. What's the time? Do you think I want to ask a question? Blessings. Thank you. Thank you. It would be my wish to come to Bangalore.

Yes, you're very welcome. You're really welcome to come, except in the last week of April and the first week of May I'm away for a few days to visit my son, but besides that any time you're very welcome.

Thank you. And it's intuitively seen like, and even I remember that when I'm stating from my memory, even now I know that accidental acts of universes come and go, that is of my being. But somehow there was also a subtle expectation that I'll see it, will see that I'll see it, that universes and... I always wanted to ask you that: Did you see it like that? Like universes was... it's fine.

They read this question of 'see it.' No, when we see something, when we perceive something, there's a perceptual aspect of it and there's awareness of or a seeing of it which is independent of the stimulus, you see. Because you could see, smell, and usually we call that experience. But there's a deeper knowing of whether you can also call it a seeing in some way that although nobody can have a perceptual experience because it's not like a fantasy movie or something, you have this experience that there's a vast universe, boundless ocean in which the universes are getting into like Noah's Arks and they're coming and going. Like, what would that seeing actually be? Because what is being said is beyond like any visualization, you see.

So what is aware of versus perceiving of? And when we say it is just known, is it like something which then can be doubted because it is like just known, or is it more undoubtable because it is known that way, you see? And it's very woo again because it all depends on where we place perception on the scale of reality, you see. And if you place perception on the scale of unreality, which is what the Advaita Vedanta starts with, is basically that none of Vedanta will get anywhere unless you realize that everything that you perceive is unreal, is coming and going, and reality does not come and go. So what is most stable knowledge? Is it that which is perceptual or it is known independent of perception? And therefore if there's something known independent of perception, would we call that the true seeing or no, but not perceiving?

Yes, even like this also, I'm going to state from memory that I remember that when you were pointing to us on time in satsang, and it seemed okay, clear, you know, that not here like this, like the way I'm sitting it right now, and I know this. But it seemed very clear that the acts of him, you know, it was appearances, but it also seems like now an experience like that was just almost granted and I don't know.

Like this, let's take a simpler one. So the universe is nothing but a firefly wandering for me. So our mind can make a visualization out of that, like the whole universe contracting, becoming a firefly like that. But that is not the seeing on which a sage will rely to give you that report. So there's a non-perceptual, that's what insight really is. Now if I can say it is also a site, in-sight, so it's like inner sight. So it is a seeing but it is inside. It is beyond perceptual, beyond the realms of usual human understanding and perception.

But if you were to say to Ashtavakra, 'How could you say the acts of the universe come and go within you as the boundless ocean? Did you see this?' This is a good question. Did you see this? And only if you see it you should put it there, no? Because for centuries people are going to read your stuff. So what do we feel? We would say he would say, 'Yes, I see it like that, but I don't see it like this, but I see it like that.' The same way that you see yourself as the unlimited reality and there's nothing to see over there, you see. You see your being that wakes up boundless and you see the time and space wake up within you, but you don't see it like this. So this type of thing becomes intuitive insight, which to the world is just hocus-pocus nonsense, you see. And yet how is it that the sages through centuries and through millennia have been similar in the usage of metaphors and the usage of what they have? Yeah.

So is that seeing an intuitive insight seeing or not seeing? Depends on our definition of working. Yeah, the perception, yes, the non-perceptual theme, the scene right here in United States. Will that be just a strong experience or...?

If by experience you mean perception, then no. Again, not like something... experience is a word, okay? Now for me it may mean something different, for you it may have been something different. So what does it mean for you? And I will tailor my answer based on that. When you say experience, you imply what?

Like I know that, like for example if there's a strong insight I'm getting, since it can't be... we can't rely on our visual or anything outside of me, and how do I know that this insight is real insight? So that's a question.

Okay, let's take an example. Would you say you... whatever, feel free, but I would hazard a guess and say you love your parents. Is that an experience? Then what is it? It is exactly... it is like that. It's a bit of both, you see. And I've said, no, that although like with kids, this is a beautiful example. So we always love our children, but many times you're feeling angry with them, you're feeling like they just don't listen and all of these things. But in that moment if somebody says, 'Do you love your children?' you'll say yes. But is that your experience then? Not perceptually, but you know. So what is that knowing?

But for this example there is a lot of reliance on the past and the memory, okay, some kind of a correlation. Right now you love someone, so if you love someone, how do you know? Through an experience? Just like the first intoxication has to be there, only then you know? Or you know somewhere deeper? Can we move beyond love to something else?

Yeah, to a larger truth. Yes, yes, it's a pretty large truth actually. But okay, what do you feel? You're born or not born?

Like I probably correlate to... I had an experience with God or something like that, you know.

Were you born? This is something like in the context of today's satsang. I cannot take a stand in the invitation when you do. You say yes, you say no, you don't say hi. That's fine too, that's fine too. That you are here, is it because of perception alone? So if all perception... when do we... like one said, no, that he wasn't sahaja and it was so quiet and so dark that except for the sense that he was awake, there was nothing.

Relate to 'I'. I like, 'I had an experience with God' or something like that, you know. Were you born? This is something like in the context of today's satsang. I cannot take a stand in the invitation. When you do, you say yes, you say no, you don't say 'I'. That's fine too. That's fine too.

That you are here, is it because of perception alone? So if all perception... when one said no, that he wasn't sahaja and it was so quiet and so dark that except for the sense that he was awake, there was nothing to perceive, you see. So what is that? How is that, you see? And is that being boundless or does it have a boundary? Is that an experience? If that is an experience, then what I'm saying is the next. Because if it is beyond phenomenal and you have a different word for that, then it is that. So everything that is worth knowing is worth knowing this way, okay? Everything else is...

One day in... I don't know, okay. One day I had an experience. I was in meditation and very deep, and I went out of my body, yeah. And I zoomed out, like out of the planet. And I was like Guruji says, two eyeballs. Last part says that I was two eyeballs, like that's who I was, yeah. Two eyeballs looking at the universe without an SD card, you know. So definitely it was a perception. When you were talking about intuitive insight or... yeah, I thought it was linked to the body and to the being. But having had this experience, yeah, I know that it was not my body but awareness. But it was a perception. I cannot say it was an insight because I saw, right? So, yeah, can you comment?

So it is this, like a beautiful but... like in the realm of what you would call spiritual experiences: out of body, near death, all these kind of spiritual experiences, various realms, beings, and all this kind of stuff. So I would say that, yes, many times in our search for God, many spiritual experiences also come. But if I was forced, like somebody put a gun to my head and said, 'No, you have to put value to what is greater: intuitive insight or spiritual experience,' I would say intuitive insight, which is beyond phenomenal perception, yeah.

That what I wanted to say is that maybe Ashtavakra is talking also about a perception he had? Or no? You think it was... it's not possible to visualize the universes going in the boundless ocean unless you're just talking about imagination, which I don't feel like he was doing. The SD card, Father.

Thank you. Very serious. There is... what is happening? Can you hear me?

This part I can hear, the rest I can't hear, Father. I want to tell you... what is left? I don't know, okay. It seems that there is some shapes that come, yes.

How do you know that you need to be burnt? Because I'm saying, 'I want to be burnt, nothing else.' No, I don't know. No suffering, no pride. Yes, suffering, pride, and many things are coming, yeah. So that's what I'm asking. So what needs to be burnt? What are you most proud of? Let's start with burning that.

Um, where there is... I mean, now there is a new shape that never happened to me before.

See, it's happened to you or you shaped them? I know I shaped them. So that is very important. Because if we move away from this sort of victim thing—'Oh, this new shape has come'—the new shape, this but shape is gone, but shape can't come. You can see it come unless we nurture it with our belief. Unless somewhere we want that, it can't come. You cannot see all this game. 'I made this shape and I value it somewhere,' you see? Yes. So now that needs to be burnt. When that is the right prayer, that there is something of value in my mind, or the mind reposes some value in this. What is it? What is the shape's relationship? Money, spirituality, what is it?

Myself. But yeah, it's like I want to finish, you know. And dark energies also, yeah. All spirituality.

What happens when you want to keep the good part of spirituality and think of you like the bad part and you want to become spiritually better? That is the shape. Yes. Nobody complains to me and says, 'There's too much good energy, too much light.' This is too much light. Everybody complains about the dark energy that comes. But the display of light and darkness, there will be both, yes. Who are we to pick what kind of energy should come? Can you repeat? Who are we to be able to decide what energy we should experience? That is the shape that we need to get rid of. Become so empty that whatever comes remains untouched by it. Because what is light and dark for that which is empty? Yes. So you cannot pick and choose and say, 'I will take the good parts of being somebody, but I don't want the bad parts of being somebody. I want the good parts of being spiritual, all the good energy and you see all the knowledge and beautiful joy and love and all of that I want, but I don't want the opposite,' which is natural in this world, that everything has its opposite and it will come. But if you don't want anything at all, if you're fully empty, then whatever comes we are happy to accept in our openness. Everything comes and goes.

This is very important because we cannot live in God's light without being empty inwardly. So this is the tool, the fuel for burning. If you could be somebody, who would that be?

Nobody at all.

How can nobody suffer? Remember that suffering and pride are the same thing. And the one that needs to be burnt is made up of pride, okay? Right.

What is pride? Say again, what is pride?

Pride is the specialness, like 'I am somebody.' I'm somebody good and so somebody bad, either, both, yes. Any somebody: good, better, best, worst. All 'somebody' is a pride. I am nobody, yes. And sometimes even that is pride.

Thank you. I want to finish with why...

Who are you to finish? Who are you to want to finish? What makes you so special that you deserve to finish? Yeah. So our pride is hidden like this. Like our pride gets hidden like this: 'But I want to find God.' But who are we to find God? 'I want to finish all of this.' Who are we to finish all of this? The whole world is suffering. What is so special about us that we should finish? Don't finish. Just don't be anybody. Neither finish nor don't finish, nothing, you see? There comes a point in spirituality where our humblest prayers become the crutches for the identity itself because they are food.

Exactly, exactly. So I give you myself. I don't know, I just be empty, yes. But not empty for anything, just be empty, yes. Because I want to be empty to not be anything, yeah. It will be empty after saying it herself. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you and I want to go also to see you, yeah, sure. Can I come?

Yes, of course you can go. I don't know why, because they have to see the money and those, all these things. God will give us, God will give us a way. Thank you.

There's a similar question. Did you ask? No. 'How many, Father, how many visitors can you allow at a time if one wishes to come to your place?' We've never been full in twelve years. I'm sure we'll be fine.

Hello, Father, can you hear me? Yes, yes I do. Hello, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Good, good. I just wanted to share that yesterday I was at the park and just randomly it kind of popped up, the remembrance of when you tell us sometimes, you know, 'Stop it, stop it, too much in here' and all this stuff. So it was kind of beautiful how that came up and it did help me kind of find a bit of silence, I guess, or I don't know, yeah. That solved it. I wanted to say though for today, and I'm keeping up with the pointings as best as I can all of my life, who wanted to come down, who must be Father...

Yeah, I just wanted to share the beauty of the 'stop it' pointing. We're on vacation. That was the first thing you ever said to me, so our first satsang together was 'stop it,' you know. And I'm with my four grandchildren, deaf grandchildren, my husband's grandchildren. We're on a lot of family vacation now and there's been a lot of friction inside about sort of a lot of person energy with blended family and so many dynamics, all of us in one place, and a lot of insecurities.

Yeah, my oldest stepdaughter is in her thirties, so she has four kids and we were just in them... I was feeling like a lot of personal energy coming and all of a sudden one of them just said, 'Stop it!' Oh yes, they all started saying, 'Stop it, stop it, stop it' to each other. So that's our favorite, our new favorite video. I just needed to thank you so much for that, for your share, because it's ended up being a nice satsang here amidst, you know, what we might call distraction, noise, all of this sort of stuff that has been quite a solitary, quiet life. So it's a nice testing ground for sure. Hi Nina, wanna say hi? Hello, hi. Sorry, Nina, I'm sorry sweetheart. You can stay, you can come out from behind the curtain. I promise, I promise I won't do that again. I promise. That was mean of Lala, I'm sorry. Okay, just... and if you might just bless this delicious family of this beautiful four little ones. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Well, yeah, it's gone so quickly. Before we go, just a quick reminder about the beautiful and holy day that we're having with such an on today. I feel like a very simple way to look at Christ's crucifixion, Christ on the cross, it's just to... like many of you I know, especially in India and maybe in the West also, we feel like the guru, the Master's body can take on some of our afflictions. Talking about Jesus now, you're not on camera, I promise. He's talking very quietly though, see if you can hear you.

So I was just saying that many of you in satsang also feel that with the great Masters like Guruji and other Masters, we also have seen how their bodies, how their energy systems can take on things after long periods of sharing, how they need to rest. Because in one way, in a beautiful way, God has designed this flow in this way, this water to flow in this way. There's a beautiful bhajan that we've seen sometimes, which means that for those who believe in the notion of karma or karma theory, they say that thousands of years of bad karma can be afflictions or conditions in this way. Through the Master's grace, it can be cleaned up in a moment. And many have this feeling when they go for the Kumbh Yatra and take a dip in the holy river, in the Ganga as well, and in that one dip all their afflictions, all their conditions, all their so-called karmic baggage can all be cleaned out.

So crucifixion, Jesus being put on the cross, in a way represents his taking all the karma of the world, all the afflictions, all the conditions. Like sometimes in India as parents we say, and very often we say that to our children, we say that 'Whatever afflicts you, let that be mine.' And in the Sangha, of course, the guru is always praying that as long as it is auspicious, me and all that afflicts their children, may that be for them to bear and may their children never have to go through suffering, which is possible for the Master to go through. You would rather have that for anyone in the world, actually.

So a question to ask before any of us can share this: would you be willing to take on the suffering of the entire world if you had to, by virtue of you bringing the light of God to the world and the sense of praying for a blessing everyone and guiding everyone to it? So in a way, God himself, an Avatar of God or the Son of God himself, decided that he will take on, atone for, or take on all the sins, all the afflictions, all the conditioning of the world. And that is the greatest gift that a Father can give. It's like a fresh start, a complete ability to live in God's light from this moment on. And God himself chose to do that for us as Jesus Christ, fully God and fully human at the same time. So please don't any of us ever feel that, 'Oh, it was easy because he was God.' No, he was not just fully God, he was also fully human. That was the point. So to experience the human condition as full God and full human is something that our mind can...

The greatest gift that a father can give is like a fresh start, a complete ability to live in God's light from this moment on. And God Himself chose to do that for us as Jesus Christ—fully God and fully human at the same time. So please, don't any of us ever feel that, 'Oh, it was easy because He was God.' No, He was not just fully God; He was also fully human. That was the point. To experience the human condition as full God and full human is something that our mind cannot understand, but that is what Jesus Christ was. So it is a day to be grateful, to fall at His holy feet and say thank you for that extreme sacrifice because You also came as a full human and made that sacrifice for us. We are forever grateful. May we follow in our own little ways in Your footsteps and learn to live with Your faith, Your humility, and Your unconditional love for the entirety of humanity. Thank you for this beautiful sacrifice. You are the Lamb of God.

And yes, also so grateful. May we also remember today that this is the way of the world. If any of us are expecting anything out of the world, out of this world, because of our spiritual attainment or our progress—are we expecting some love or respect out of this world for that? Please don't expect that. If it comes, it comes. But usually, the way of the world is to fight that which is proposing a different way of life. When the whole world is living in their heads, for those who are going to propose the way of the heart, it is not going to be a cakewalk. Today's day is a beautiful representation of that as well: that the sweetest, the most loving, beautiful Avatar incarnate, Son of God, was put up on the cross in this world by these worldly people, by this very mind which we are on our rampage against in some sense.

May His love, may His light, may His grace bless us all. May we bow down at His holy feet because it is only with God Himself, the Son of God, the true incarnation—along with Ram, Krishna, all the Buddhas, the incarnations—that we had the privilege of having Him in this world. It is only the true incarnation which can command the spirit, which can even predict the ways of the spirit. Of the Satguru presence, all the teachers, all the Siddhas, all of us, we can only request with hands folded that Spirit bless each one in the human condition, but we cannot compel it. Only God Himself could do that. We always live in humility and we never make all the comparisons. May we remember that at the highest, at the very highest, as long as we have this waking state, we must never consider ourselves to be anything greater than the smallest servant to God. May God bless you all with this deep faith and humility. All my love, all my blessings are with you.

Questions? I've started getting used to sitting on the floor again by this point, but my knee is a little bit of trouble. Okay. Love you all.