श्रीरामSatsang with Ananta
Awareness & Attention

Don't Go To The Measuring Tape

Don't use the mind's measuring tape of feelings and concepts to determine your spiritual progress - the Truth is already complete and untouched by any mental phenomena.

Seeker

So, right now, the second bird [referring to Sri Mooji's metaphor of the birds] is there, and third bird also. Both are there and it's beauHful, but the person thinks it's the person. So, I don't have the, like, recogniHon that I am the Self.

Ananta

I see, I see. Okay, thank you, this is a beauHful quesHon. So, let's really look at this. So, there is a body-mind in the realm of acHvity and it's doing all of whatever happens in the realm of the waking state. So, that is the first bird. There is a mind which interprets that first bird to be 'me', 'myself'. That interpretaHon, or belief in that interpretaHon is what we call the person. Yes? But you found out that that which is perceiving all of this, the Being which is perceiving all of this, remains untouched by any of that play. And beyond even the Being there is Awareness, which is aware even of the percepHon that the Being is having, isn't it. Now all of this that you're saying, you say that you recognize this, isn't it?

Seeker

Yes, I recognize both, the witness and the Absolute, I recognize right now.

Ananta

Yes. So, when you say the recogniHon is not here just because the mind conHnues to take itself to be, or tries to present a proposal that you are a person, doesn't mean that you have not recognized the Truth, isn't it? Because you are saying I recognized that I am this Awareness which is aware of, which is perceiving the acHvity of this body.

Seeker

As Guruji [Sri Mooji] said, the Truth is even beyond two and even beyond one.

Ananta

Exactly.

Seeker

My quesHon is now, so I have right now a bit of feeling of One-ness and a bit of a feeling of person, like a mixture. And of course, the Truth is there, the Absolute is there.

Ananta

Yes. So, don't expect your feeling to confirm the One-ness. Expect only the Truth to confirm your One-ness. And you're saying the Truth is always there. So, what effect does the change of feelings have on the Truth?

Seeker

No effect.

Ananta

Nothing, isn't it. So, our job then is not to provide a set of feelings which the mind can interpret as your stability in your Freedom. Because those benchmarks are not ones that you can use for your Freedom. It is just to see that in Reality it is so apparent to me, that I am this pure witnessing that is aware of this immense Beingness that is here, within which this play of the body-mind and all the acHvity of the Universe happens. Which includes the play of feelings, thoughts, emoHons, all of these things. It has nothing to do with which branches the bird can pick up or not, isn't it?

Seeker

Yes, it has nothing to do, no, no.

Ananta

So, then to say that because the nest looks like that, I'm not fully free, because it doesn't have the right leaves and branches - which means I don't have the right emoHons and feelings or thoughts - then that would be a fallacy.

Seeker

Yes, but someHmes I have, like, more that in the mind it appears that somehow I'm not so much the doer and somehow even the doer is less there. So it's like the soluHon of the doer a liZle bit, but then the mind likes it and says 'Ah, this is One-ness'.

Ananta

Yes [chuckles].

Seeker

And suddenly I'm out of that and I'm totally the doer and I know Truth is there and I then want to have the One-ness. But I think, yes...

Ananta

It is that you're using the wrong measuring tape, you see. The measuring tape will only take you in a loop all the Hme. SomeHmes it will tell you, you're there, someHmes it will tell you that you have lost it, someHmes it will tell you that you are almost there, someHmes it will tell you that you are not ge^ng it at all. All of this will come. So, whatever you can use to measure your Freedom, if you throw that away, then that is Freedom.

Seeker

Even throw away One-ness or two-ness of the mind?

Ananta

Definitely. In fact, everything that you can throw away, throw away. That is Freedom.

Seeker

Yes, yes. Yes [smiles, then gets a 'thinking' expression].

Ananta

No, no [chuckles]. You're doing very well, and then you started going to the measuring tape again. So, don't do that, let it go. It's fine.

Seeker

Ahh, you saw from my eyes that I would go to the mind again.

Ananta

Yes.

Seeker

Okay, okay, yes. So just recognize Truth all the Hme?

Ananta

No, no. Even this idea you can throw away. Tell me about yourself which doesn't include the mind-intellect.

Seeker

I can't. I don't know. There is maybe...

Ananta

Okay, pause. So, wherever you went for that answer, just forget about that.

Seeker

Forget about what answer?

Ananta

The place that you went to, let's call it a 'place' where you went to determine that answer, don't go there, don't worry about that. Whatever is happening in that playground, let it happen, you don't be bothered by it. It is not telling you the Truth over there.

Seeker

Yes. It's the conceptual version of the Truth, it's a mind version of the Truth.

Ananta

And the mind will call Truth, what is the false.

Seeker

Yes, of course, even of the Truth. Yes, but then it will come. So right now I have really the feeling to be like One, but it will come...

Ananta

Are you just hiding a thought behind the word 'Feeling'?

Seeker

Yes. I did make the mistake again, that I took the mind versions of the One-ness for the Truth. Thank you, thank you.

Ananta

So good, so good. You see? That's it, so simple, so simple. That's my version, don't make any conclusions based on that [chuckles]. [The talk conHnues later in same Satsang:]

Seeker

So, I am all the Hme really One beyond the concepHon of 'One-ness' with that?

Ananta

Not even that.

Seeker

Not even that?

Ananta

Where do you know that? Don't go there. Wherever you know that 'Beyond the concept of One', that is also a concept. Leave that also.

Seeker

Yes. It makes me so happy because it's so simple.

Ananta

Yes, very good. I'm glad to see you so happy. Then some fear can also come, which is also natural. It's okay, either way it's good.

Seeker

Yes. Then my quesHon is, should I now be as second bird even or should I just let go and do nothing? I don't know now if there is second bird or no second bird, it doesn't maZer for the Truth. And if there is a seeker, or if the seeker is, like, less in the view of the second bird. It doesn't maZer to the Truth as well. Should I even do second bird or...

Ananta

Everything which is in your intellect, just leave it, it's fine.

Seeker

So, even not the intellectual one of second bird pracHcing?

Ananta

Nothing, nothing.

Seeker

Yes, okay. Because, before my pracHce was like staying more or less in the second bird [posiHon] while Truth is there, and now you say all this pracHce [makes dismissive gesture with hands].

Ananta

No. I'm only saying that anything which is in your mind or intellect, leave that. Then, if pracHcing has to happen, pracHcing can happen, if pracHcing does not have to happen, it can not happen. Either of them is okay. I'm just saying, don't determine what you are and what you should do and what you should be, leave any intellectual or conceptual idea of doing, or Hme, or any of these things.

Seeker

Yes, yes, okay. But now, even if pracHcing second bird took place, I kind of would now start as true pracHcing, and before I started as a person pracHcing.

Ananta

Don't make any conclusions my dear. You don't have to determine your posiHon. In fact, you cannot. [Pauses] Just don't think about it, that's all.

Seeker

Yes, okay.

Ananta

What do you think? [Chuckles]

Seeker

What I think, is your quesHon?

Ananta

No, no, not seriously, I'm just having some fun. I was just thinking about what do you think about not thinking [chuckles]. Are you now thinking about it?

Seeker

Yes, I thought about how I oeen think about not thinking [smiles].

Ananta

Stop it.

Seeker

Yes. Kind of, the person has now more fear to lose it, because it don't control the enlightenment any more.

Ananta

Do you know this without the mind? Do you know the state of the person without the mind?

Seeker

No. Without the mind I cannot know person.

Ananta

Then we cannot report on the state of a person, if it is only from the mind, if it is just conceptual.

Seeker

Yes, yes. Now, some fear comes from the person, someHmes I have it when I talk to people, this insecurity and fear.

Ananta

You're doing well, don't worry about this. Allow it to come and go, it's fine

Key Teachings

  • The Truth is always present and unaffected by changing feelings or mental states - don't use emotions or thoughts as benchmarks for spiritual freedom
  • Throw away the 'measuring tape' - any concept (including One-ness, two-ness, or spiritual practices) that the mind uses to measure progress is a trap
  • The mind will call 'Truth' what is actually false - don't trust the mind's interpretations of your spiritual state
awarenessself-recognitionmindfreedommeasuring tapetruthfeelingsconceptssurrender

From: The Way to Live Life in God’s Presence - 17th February 2023