Day Four - Contemplating the Ashtavakra Gita - 30th August 2024

If you find that your mind is wandering, just use your breath and return to your center. Sit in the presence of your guide. Who is aware of the perception of this voice? Who is aware of the sound of the world—the birds chirping, the dogs barking, the traffic, the fan? Who is aware of the sensations of the ground under your feet, the sensations of pain or pleasure in your body? Who is aware of the fact that you exist, that you are here? Who can confirm 'I am'?

Ask the Atma within for help with this question. The one who witnesses this universe, where does that one live? The one witness—where is that one witnessing from? Allow the holy presence to guide you, take you deep within, beyond the coming and going of this universe. Where am I watching this world from? Am I sitting somewhere inside my body? The sensations that we call the body, where are they floating? Who is aware of all perception?

Be fully grateful in your heart for the holy assistance that you receive in the process. Thank God, thank the Atma and the guide that you follow. Return to the prayer with your breaths. When you feel ready, you can open your eyes and write your reflections.

Okay. Who is aware? Is it you or somebody else who can see this hand? Who is aware of the perception of this hand? Who is that? Where is that one located? Where is that one watching from? Is it you? No? Is it you? Have you ever met this yourself? Can you meet it? In what way is this true self met?

Can't perceive it.

Can't perceive it? Can you see the eye that is aware of perception?

Can't perceive it. And no matter what you think about it, what knowledge you have in your head, it cannot grasp this reality called the self.

And how do you know that it is you?

Yeah, right. The perceptions of the world also seem there, disjointed. It just doesn't seem to be like a 'me.' It feels very—not in a depressing way—it just doesn't seem connected at all.

Good. So the meaning-making, the narrative-making, the sense-making comes from the mind. That's why everybody makes sense of things differently. You could be in the same room hearing the same words, but the meaning you will make could be completely different. But that has nothing to do with either the perception or reality, isn't it? And in that way, it's disjointed. So let's go deeper and say: who is aware of this perception? Who is that which is aware? And strangely, without any recognition, we call it 'I.' The most important thing in our life: I. Because everything we do for I, I, I, I. And we call this one that is the pure witnessing, untouched by no matter what may appear or disappear—this we call I. On what basis? We don't see it, we don't smell it, we don't touch it, we don't taste it, we don't hear it, and yet we are sure that I witness, I am aware. What does this I look like? Where is that one? Are you sitting here or are you sitting there? Are you sitting here? What tells you that you are sitting here? First, let's look at that. There are sensations of the body, there's a feeling of ground underneath, and these sensations by themselves convince you that you are sitting.

Feeling is me. If I wasn't taught that, I wouldn't know it anyway. You know, like when I really look now and I see that I don't have form and am not perceivable in any way at all.

Yeah. So are you saying that you are not sitting here?

No, I can say that I'm present, but I can't say that I'm sitting. I mean, I don't know what to say, actually.

It's good to say you don't know. You don't have to be diffident about it if that's what you're seeing. Then, because I framed the question that way, own it—that I see that I'm not sitting here. This body is sitting here, these sensations are here, these perceptions are here. And whether the appearance of these perceptions grants them a 'hereness' or a reality, I don't know. But that which is aware of all of these perceptions that I call I, you call I—is that one contained in some sensations or perceptions? Give us a mic again.

No, I want to check because I don't want to delude myself also. Rather, in a moment of insight, like I can't tell that I'm sitting here or... but right now if you ask me, like in perception, okay, I can say that I'm sitting here. But you know, when I was really inquiring, it didn't seem like... it felt like a placeless place. Like I can't say that I... I can't confirm anything about the world.

Yeah. The 'I' which cannot confirm—is that one in the placeless place, or is it this one now looking back at that? Right now, I'm looking back at that. So what is your true place then? Be careful not to visualize. The visualizations will only cause trouble. Just see: that which you call I, that which is aware of all perceptions and sensations, is that contained within the body? You can become aware of the perceptions at the back of your head. The perceptions at the back of your head here, this part—yes, there are sensations there. So these sensations, are you watching from which side? From within the body? From outside the body? Is there something that surrounds the body that is watching the body from that perspective? Like that? From around it?

No.

Then from inside the body?

No, not inside, not outside.

Then where? Closer than inside or outside. Pass me... what is that? How close is that?

Close. He says, 'Where are you looking for me, my friend? I'm right here with you.' Where is that 'right here'? It's exactly like what you mentioned last week about Ashtavakra mentioning it's like sweetness in the sugarcane. It's sweetness in the sugarcane, or sugar in the sugarcane. Like you can't say it's there, but it's there.

Who sees this? Is that the sugar one who is seeing this? Is it also part of human...?

From within this universe you see the universe. It's not within in the form of like the juice inside the sugarcane, but in the form of sweetness and of the sugar. Father, it's like it's not like in spatial terms, within or without, but it's like all-pervaded.

Yeah. So who's aware of the sweetness? Is that sweet? Who's aware of the beingness? Is that being? Who's aware of Consciousness? Is that Consciousness? Who is the I which is 'I am'? Now, is I and 'am' the same thing? Say 'I am.' Why don't we just say 'am' or 'I'? What are we denoting with those two words? There's an I which is now existent, being, present, conscious. Which I is that which is being conscious? And where is that one?

It's there. It's exactly the same again. I will put that one. It's like it's part of it, but still not physically mixed. Like it's you seeing this.

Yes, Father. So that which is seeing this or aware of it, is that contained in it?

It's not contained, but still part of it.

Not contained and yet not separate.

Not separate.

What about the uncontained part? That's the one. It's your toenail which is the world, which is the universe, and your being per... actually the universe is just superimposed on your toenail, which is the being. What is the rest of you? So is the toenail separate from you? No, it isn't. But does it contain you? No, it doesn't. Does that mean that the rest of you has a shape? No, it's just a metaphor. But what about that which is Nirguna? Isn't it the same, Father? Nirguna itself is the one who is Vap everywhere. Yes, it's part of... but why the obsession with the all-pervasiveness, permeating, present everywhere, emanating in that way? It is the Brahman, yes. But is there a non-pervasive part of it? Because we all can, and we usually do—it's very nice—we all can focus on that aspect. But today we are focusing on that from which even this arises.

Father, I cannot say that yet, but there is something which is not... we can still exist.

So to see the all-pervasiveness of your being, what is your vantage point to see that from? Which position do you see that from? Because it's again like a web going back again and going back there. And so where are you seeing all this from?

So I am seeing it, but when you ask me where, then it goes in a position where it is again... I will use those words: pervasive. It's all dissolved inside everything. It's like a solution. It's part of everything. Then you will ask me again, 'Where are you seeing this from?' I can see that, Father, but when you ask me where it is, again I'm going there.

Okay. When I don't ask you to ask, okay, so is that awareness changing its position? Like the double-slit experiment: when the observer is there, on itself it becomes hidden; when it's not there, then it's apparent. Is it like that?

So if you don't ask me, I don't need to define it. And if I don't need to define it, it's there. But if I start defining it, the best way I can define it is with...

I'm not asking you to define it, because to define it would be to ask you for an attribute of it. When you ask where it is, 'where it is' is also an attribute of it. Where are you from?

So as soon as I'm trying to put 'where' there, Father, only that answer is coming. But if you don't ask me, I know. I don't know.

Thank you. Good inquiry, good contemplation. Are you changing your...

To define it—and if I don't need to define it, it's there—but if I start defining it, the best way I can define it is with... I'm not asking you to define it because to define it would be to ask you for an attribute of it. When you ask where it is, 'where it is' is also an attribute of it. Where are you from? So as soon as I'm trying to put 'where' there, Father, only that answer is coming. But if you don't ask me, I know. I don't know. Thank you.

Good. Good inquiry, good contemplation. Are you changing yourself in some way based on the question being asked or not? And you can switch a little this side if you want, it's easier for you to... when the question is asked or not asked, whatever inner position that may be changing, are you changing position or some quality about yourself in the process?

But not changing quality of... but to answer, I have to come to position.

Not like that. You see that you remain unchanged no matter what. That 'you' is very elusive, and my consistent prodding is only so that you don't get bullied by your mind; instead, you get bullied by me. That is okay.

Yes, absolutely. As soon as it gets some space, the mind tries to occupy that. Correct. And it is trying to define—not only define, it also brings in the weak moments. It brings in some fear or past things. And then again, when you go back, thank you. But yeah, I understand that.

It's very good. It's very good. So try to remain as empty like this. Just in your prayer, in your emptiness, in your contemplation. Then that sort of wobbliness, that sort of fear, that sort of shakiness which comes, you'll get used to facing that. It won't be troublesome. So, what is the life story of this one?

It's very boring, Father. Nothing happening there.

That's the whole point of the Leela. I know what has ever happened to you. So today we are talking about the aspect of it. So the Ashtavakra Gita, we've been speaking about. The Atma is this indistinct, undefinable, unchanging that is just prior to 'I am.' Resolution, dissolution—not disillusionment. You are free from contact with anything whatsoever, therefore pure as you are. What do you want to renounce? Destroy the body complex and in this way enter into the state of dissolution.

So again, I've said often that it's a very dangerous scripture, so we have to be careful when we hear it. 'Destroy the body complex' does not mean in the world we do something to destroy that. It means the idea that you are this body, that you are contained in this body, that the body is around you. Notice that all the sensations that we call the body are just happening within you, the same way that every perception happens within you.

And we were taught... I often used to take this example, some of you are new, you may not have heard it. I remember distinctly trying to ask my son when he was very young, maybe a few months old. So very often he would point to my head instead of his head. He understood some attribute which we are calling 'head,' but he did not yet understand fully the 'me' and 'yours.' So, 'Where is your head?' He will point at my head. So this separation, this distinguishing ourselves, having a boundary within our perceptions, is not something that came naturally to us as well. We were taught this by our mind, firstly.

So if you did not take the body sensations and boundary to be your boundary, then... sound check, check, good, okay. So if you did not take these sensations, perceptions to be our boundary, what would our life look like? That's fine. So let's do a tiny experiment first. Suppose instead of identifying as this body, you identified with the room. The whole room is you, contained in you. Now talk about yourself. Just don't make a boundary based on body sensations. You can hear at the back? I have to speak up a bit. It's not so... take yourselves to be undivided, not divided in any way by the body sensations or perceptions. Now feel like... is it like that? A field of presence? Like something changes in your perception?

No, but you see something underlying. I'm not seeing only this form, but I'm recognizing something.

Did anything have to change in the realm of experience or phenomena?

No, it didn't have to change here of this, but something changed inside.

Yes, because you unburdened yourself from this boundary. And it's not that you spread out here or something like that. It is all... this is already within you. You don't... you can't spread out more than you already are. But you recognize that the constraint that your mind has put you in, that gets unburdened. So you feel like you're freer within and outside, but in actuality nothing changed. You are the space in which the space in this room arises. You are not even this space; you are more spacious than that.

There is no trouble anywhere. No trouble anywhere till... only in the story of the character, only in the story of the non-existent story of the non-existent character is it. Which means exactly what I was going to say. Till, like Ananta said, 'me, me, me.' Till Maya, no trouble. That's why it's such an astounding, beautiful pointer she has given us. Yeah, because Maya has been long understood to be the appearance of the waking state or the appearance of the dream state. The story is of the character. There is some 'before the me.' Without the protagonist, what is the story? There can be a story; it can be only one story, which is the story of God. The story of God. The elephant is in the room, but our story is always about the ant.

So there's no story before the Maya comes. There is no story before the 'me' comes. Some movement or something, there is a perception. How will you make a story out of perception? We talked about the most innocent narrative. Sounds like, 'Oh, the coconut is green.' There is no Maya in that, you see. But quickly, what is the next thought? 'I like sweet water. I don't like green.' Quickly see. It's like saying, 'Let me invite the face of the snake, but I won't let the whole snake in.' And to perceive the green coconut, you didn't need the label 'green coconut.' All the intelligence, all the information that you needed to drink from this is contained in the perception of it. I don't need to say 'tumbler of lemonade' or whatever, isn't it?

Father, can you say that same thing by putting it into like a... not a coconut or orange juice, but like a relationship-y kind of issue?

So that's a problem because there is no relationship. Catch, don't catch. Just don't catch anything at all. Yeah.

How not to catch? For me, the question is how not to catch or how to catch.

Not to catch. Just hands open. Like, just like... is it... so whether you call it prayer of the quiet, whether you say 'no me,' whether you say Cloud of Unknowing, whether you say unborn, ultimately it is all about remaining empty of 'me.' When we remain empty of 'me,' then the magic happens by itself. So 'don't catch' is the key, or 'catch only God' is the key. Either way.

Yeah, you're saying that prayer is our tool to build this muscle to stay here, right?

Prayer is the switch of perspective where I am the elephant first. I was... I can't understand, that's too complicated. Okay, I'm the central character in my narrative, you see. So our mental prayer, wordy prayer, starts with changing the central protagonist away from 'me' to God. So now it starts like that. Yeah. Now then, that dissolution happens more and more and more and more where we run out of words to even pray with. Don't rush there. Prayer is very good, keep doing it.

Father, say 'help me to stay here, to become stronger to stay here.' Yeah, I see what you're saying. Just help me to build this muscle.

Yeah, so that's like a prayer. Prayer in the sense that we say that 'I can't do it.' Maybe that is the beginning of prayer. Then we see that that 'I' which I took myself to be is powerless, can't do anything, is helpless. Only God, the true Satguru, you can do. Yes, that's what you're saying. 'I can't do this, you do.' Whether we say that outward to her, 'stay here on our own, he has to keep us here, help us.' That's a bit tricky. Okay, we come to that.

So we come to this place where we recognize that we are out of moves and then, at least for some time, we don't want to be the central character in our story. We are done with it. 'I'm done. I'm done with life. I can't do this anymore.' You know, all that starts. And hopefully it stays at least for a little bit where we say, 'You have to do now, God. You take care of me.' So we made someone else more powerful than us in our narrative. That is the beginning of Bhakti. We would not pray to God unless He was more powerful than us, the Supreme Being.

So in that way, the Bhakti begins where we say that 'I surrender to you because I cannot do this by myself.' And the more we surrender, the more we let go, the emptier we become. Then what happens is that we fall deeper and deeper within our heart, deeper and deeper inside ourselves. And in that falling deeper and deeper, it becomes wordless, it becomes quiet, it becomes open and empty, it becomes the unborn. So there we are coming to the darshan of the innermost chamber of our heart where God lives in His light. We can see that we are that Nirguna Brahman reality.

So our prayer life does not change, only the format of the prayer may change. It may be initially full of words, which is... I'm saying it is good, it is fine, full of words. It may be mental, it may be vocal. Then it becomes... then our mind starts to be taken, dissolving into that, and it becomes a japa in the mind. So it just keeps happening. Then it becomes a heart... you feel like your Atma itself is praying. It's just you're hearing the reverberations in your heart temple and you call that prayer. Actually, you are not doing anything anymore, you're just hearing it, you see.

And then what happens is that as we dive deeper and deeper, then all audible prayer may stop, but our posture, the inward posture, is not changed. So we come to the prayer of the quiet, a contemplative prayer where words are not needed, or the words are just reminders to bring us to the quiet. And then you come to a point of full samadhi, full union, where you cannot distinguish between waking state and sleep state. It does not bother you whether you are awake or you are asleep. There is nothing left for you to do.

So whether we deepen in our Bhakti and come to this point, or we deepen in our inquiry, in our contemplations, and come to this point, now with contemplative prayer we are bringing both together. You recognize that you can just remain here. So then the tricky part about 'He has to keep me here, I can't do it'—that is the question which is true as a prayer, that 'Please, please, please,' you see. And yet everything that we have has to be in this. If that is zero, then zero, then there's nothing to ask for anyway, you see. If there's nothing left in us or we think there's nothing left in us, you see, then there's nothing to really ask for.

But as long as we can exert ourselves and put our sense of agency on other things, we must turn that towards God, you see. Otherwise it can be very convenient to say this: 'He has to do, but I will employ my agency on other worldly endeavors,' you see, which is not then right. It's like the child saying, 'Oh, Father, if I love you, then you have to keep me with you and you can see I love you,' you see. 'But if I'm left on my own, I will do and I'll go and party every night.' Correct? Exactly, you see. And then that is not love at all. And then we are just saying that we are robots by design. We are just designed to love Him, and then what is the value in that love?

So tomorrow I program two AI systems to just keep saying 'I love you, I love you.' That has no value for me, you see. So if I'm going to even design an AI system, then it has to be one who can pick between the alternatives of love and separation, so that when that one turns toward me, then I feel like, 'Oh, this one really loves me because he had the option to choose separation,' you see. So although He will give you the strength, He will be with you, He will reassure you, He will guide you every step of the way as long as you're putting your might in His direction. If you see that there is no might, it's all Him, then there's nothing to ask or answer. But it cannot be that we say that for this, You have to do it, but for my other things, for my other responsibilities, for everything else, then I will do, I am me.

He really loves me because he had the option to choose separation, you see. So although he will give you the strength, he will be with you, he will reassure you, he will guide you every step of the way as long as you're putting your might in his direction. If you see that there is no might, it's all him, then there's nothing to ask or answer. But it cannot be that we say that for this you have to do it, but for my other things, for my other responsibilities, for everything else, then I will do, I am me, you see. So expand yourself fully on the project of your life, which is to live in God's presence. From there, from that vantage point, all will flow. But if you say, 'No, no, that vantage point he has to take care of, but I will sit there and there and there,' then you see that both are true to this. Everything comes, everything good comes from God.

Yeah, yeah. So today was the satsang of the Atma when I noticed that in spite of true recognition, you see, I often go with my own will, which is the selfish me, you see. Then that is the very definition of bad, which is choosing separation over love. So I have the power to do that responsibility to make me love you, love. So I was saying that if that was true, then that would not be love at all.

Yeah, but if you look at it, so if I love him and it's something good, it comes from him. Yeah, if I don't, it comes from me. For now, as long as we feel like we have agency. When we see that everything is Grace, everything is his will, that's okay. But I don't want us to settle on a very convenient 'everything is God's will,' you see. If that was true, then Nanak Ji would not have said no, that our main job is to follow his will. Why would you say that? Really contemplate this question. At the end of everything he said, 'This will not help you, this will not help you, meditation will not help you, love will not help you, all the smartness will not help you, nothing will help you. You just have to follow his hookum, God's will.' Didn't he know that everything is God's will, you see? So since he knew and yet he said what is there in that, because he knows very well our game.

Are you saying that's just provisional? That what you said, 'everything good comes from God'?

Not provisional. Could be many lifetimes as long as we see it that way, we are okay. That we don't know this is just provisional stuff, 'I am beyond this, I'm in the Ashtavakra camp and not the Guru Nanak camp.' You can't see that both are true. That's why something feels a sense of relief from not having to, from this not being difficult. We feel a sense of relief. 'I am the boundless ocean in which all these universes are coming and going.' I see it also so clear. Nothing has ever touched me. This body moves, everything moves, it's all fine. True. But the one who is liking that and getting attached to that, that one will cause all the misery. So that aspect has to be kept in servitude of God. That's why.

Understood. That's the whole point. Father, can we look slowly at, um, so when I'm losing control of something, then...

You are losing control, huh?

When that's like, it's not there now. What I wanted to say, this pain or something feels like death almost. That's my, that's the, that's my ego.

Could be, could be, could be. It means there could be many death-type experiences you have. It could be going to samadhi and you feel you're dying.

I'm saying when I'm losing control, when you're losing control of, means if I like, if I'm not getting my way in something, that's causing...

Yeah, that is the ego. The most tantrum-y question. Answer: no, it's not you're losing control of this conversation. I'm being like Arjun today. I'm the only one laughing at my jokes. Thank you. I'll tell you now, now just looking further at in that, in the surrendering to God's will, and when I'm having to, things are not happening as per what I think they should happen. Just some like attachment on me knowing what I think, and for some things it can be very painful.

So this mic is only working for Zoom, it's not working in the room, so we have to try to speak up a bit. No, no, in the mic also, but yeah. So when it's very painful, this pain, I'm looking at that. Father, is it pain or suffering?

Suffering.

Suffering. Because pain is just like physical, even mental or emotional, but it doesn't linger that long. It is the suffering which is that re-traumatizing ourselves by repeating the narrative over and over to ourselves. It's just lack of faith in him and his ways and what he wants. If you knew that the entire thing is taken care of—suppose you had to travel from here to Japan or something and you knew that your pickup from home, your check-in, your seat, your landing, your airport pickup, everything, your hotel room, everything is taken care of—then would you stress about every step of the way? It's like saying that I have more faith in the traveling agent than in God, Father.

Yeah, and in this case, more faith in the traveler also.

In the traveler itself. The 'me' who seems to be traversing this life. Let that one take charge. How can your turning towards God be inauspicious for anybody at all? Suppose the worst-case scenarios that you're imagining, suppose they play out. What will you do with that time? Means suppose the worst scenarios, which I'm not spelling out, they play out in your life. What will you do with that time? Which time? Additional time that you get.

I'll be here in satsang.

You'll be here and doing what? Satsang is being with God. Being with God. So if you're going to spend more time with God, how can that be inauspicious for anyone? Yeah, there's a, it won't be inauspicious for me, but let's... what is the most auspicious thing you can do for the world? Turn to God. And you feel like turning to God, God will say, 'Okay, I will bless you, but you know your family, that is out of the scope.' Is it like that? That you have to do by yourself? You feel like God will say that? Nothing is better for you, the world, everyone in the world. One of the fathers said, 'Instead of meeting all of you for so many meetings every day, I should just actually be sitting and praying quietly in my room. That will actually be better for all of you.' I see that it's lack of faith and yet it's a bit scary.

Yeah, scary.

And as long as you are trying, it's fine. 'I'm yours, God. Whatever is your will is fine, God. I'm getting scared and please don't make it this way, but it is your will. If it is your will, I will accept it.' Even Jesus prayed like that at the end. He said, 'If it is your will that this cup pass over me, then may it be so. But if not, then I will follow your will.' So even our lack of faith we can take to him and say, 'This is where I am, please help.' When life puts us in a position where we don't know—actually always, but some situations it seems like more strong—but you don't know what's going to happen, the best you can do is be with God. Because it is in these times the mind pulls us in all that is all time spent away from God to cut the cords of Maya. And there is no trouble in life, then everyone is a great sage, everyone can give big Gyan, everyone can say big things. So it's very important for trouble to come so then we actually have opportunities to deepen in our faith, to deepen in our surrender. Of course it sounds scary, nobody wants to invite trouble. It's actually very important bitter medicine for us. And anyway, the fear of some outcome, the fear of some outcome is usually much worse than the actual outcome. Armchair and still going ahead, and the minute life squeezes our throat, all that is out the window. Some situation created just to make you see this is what you're doing. So let's go to... one child says she has to go soon, so let's go to Kisha.

Thank you, Father. Thank you. There's no mic which is working in the room today, but it's working fine for all of you kind of. It was kind of going in and out for a minute at the beginning, so but it's okay. I think you're just speaking quietly maybe.

No, no, there was something with this thing. Oh, then came and did something. Okay.

And you said earlier the unburdening, I don't know, like he just said it, unburdening, like it's an unburdening. Now I can't say it, but that the perceptions don't have to change, but there's a like kind of this just like complete surrender into it, like a falling into it in a way. Yeah, almost like inward facing. And I just feel like I'm beginning to like see what you're pointing to in that way without the concept of it and in its like purity. And feels like there's kind of with this, with everything is like forcing a surrender in a way. Yeah, that there's no other way. I don't have any other choice but to, and I can't explain the... sometimes I don't think I can handle it, the fear. And these are the moments that I have to just completely like, you know, open my fist like you say and just go there. No, not go anywhere, but yeah, just let go. And like Prerna said, like to the prayer to stay where you're pointing us, you know, no matter what when those storms come.

I feel like one simple tip I have for all of you is this. Storm is coming, storm is coming. So it's a mental storm mostly. So we like that, you see, which cloud next, which lightning bolt, which thing, which thunderous sounds, all of this. So even if there's a sense that storm is coming, but we are saying Ram, Ram, Ram. There may be some moments where just like that we don't leave that Ram, Ram, Ram. We don't leave the prayer. If it's a Jesus prayer, then 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me. Bless my heart, light, spirit.' Jesus, Jesus, whatever, whichever. And you can, if your mind pulls you back, then make it faster, make yourself focus on it more. Just stay with the prayer. It's such a useful tool that you can stay with. It doesn't have to always be contemplative prayer, it doesn't always have to be like prayer of the quiet, it doesn't have to be remaining unsupported, unanchored in the unborn. We don't have to live up to the highest seeker expectation. You can just be desperate and Ram, Ram, Ram. One second. Okay, so we can just use that and that would be my invitation to all of you. And tell me if you are already like that, then my experience is that these storms become much more manageable then. We are anchored in that constant, in that constant. So is it constant prayer, whether we have to force ourselves verbally, we have to say it mentally, are we doing it just constantly?

There is, Father, there is. I say like it's desperate, you know? It's like, 'Please God, like please, I just want to be with you, God.' You know, it's and it's out loud and it's sometimes internal and it is, it's there. But sometimes it's like the heat's been turned up. At least I'm praying, I am probably more than I ever have before, with trembly hands.

No, sometimes with trembly hands, those are the best prayers. So we are scared, we don't know what's going on, what the future is, but we are just... yes, yes. Okay, try it with me for ten minutes. We are not going to speak about anything else, just what you're doing, the Jesus prayer. So just say it for ten minutes flat, non-stop. Say it, say it audibly right now.

Yeah, let's try. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram.

It's very good. So you're doing it with the Japa, so it's very, very good. So it's start... if the storm is really active, go really fast. Lord Jesus Son of God, have mercy on me, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me and bless my heart with light of spirit. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me. Try, try like this right now. Yeah, out loud, yes.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner, bless my heart with the light of spirit.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. If thoughts are attacking you, make it faster, okay? There's no thoughts attacking. Very good. Very good. Go on.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram.

Good, good. So, like that, no? Then the mind has no opportunity. Yeah, has no opportunity. We are not thinking about this or that. And so when we give it the space, so what will happen is you can use this trick that if the mind is very active, then you can go really fast so it has no chance. And otherwise, it's calm. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram. And that seven is good because it keeps you actively involved in the prayer. So whatever your prayer is, incarnation of God, have mercy on me, bless my heart with the light of spirit. It's a very beautiful tool to go through these storms, which will not seem so much like storms anymore. Then whenever you see yourself getting involved with the mind, just pray. Just okay, it's like how many times do you have to remind me? No, it's for all of us. Reminding myself also the same thing. You just have to keep at it.

And if we are praying, sometimes we are praying slowly, which is beautiful in most times. But when you're going through stormy times and we pray slowly—Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God—then 'Why is she doing this to me? Why is he talking like this?' Then—have mercy on me, a sinner—'I have to change something about my life, this is not right,' like that. Bless my heart—'I think I won't go to satsang today, I'm not liking it so much'—with the light of spirit. 'Where was I?' Just like it can be like that. So when the mind is really ticking, you just go like full on, like a warrior. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. There's no room for that stuff. There's just no room for that stuff. Stay so connected.

And all you have to do—and all of us will fall into the trap—but once you notice, then don't give it another chance, you see? Then you use your prayer like a warrior till you come to a point that you can settle again and it's calm and relaxed. And you're praying with your breath sometimes, and sometimes it becomes really slow, which is fine. But if you notice you're getting into those mental zones, then make it return to it with full gusto. And you will see that just staying with God in this way, even with His name in this way, will be so auspicious that all the trouble that seemed so large, you will find the strength within you to tackle. Because it is only in separation do we suffer. And actually, just with whatever fire we have at that point of time, if we take God's name, we cannot struggle so much. That separation is suffering. It is impossible to suffer without separation, you see what I'm saying?

So just use your prayer as such a powerful weapon. And in those times when you're all stormy and all, then don't worry about samadhi and don't worry about, 'Oh, the highest prayer is this prayer and that prayer.' Just pray. Take God's name as if your life depends on it. That is your only lifeboat, otherwise you're going to drown. Just take it with that kind of fervor. Just don't leave it.

It feels like my life depends on it, yeah.

So don't leave it for real. Just keep going like just full, full, full, full, full. Then you see that already you must be feeling that after those few minutes, something changes. Yeah. So we just have to keep at it. And that's why, at the risk of upsetting many of you, I just keep repeating this point. And I'm glad we gave this live demonstration today of what I mean. So when I'm saying, 'Are we praying? Are we praying?' this is what I mean. Just like constantly, constantly, constantly. Then there's no like that. So like that, if something gets you, then just notice that and get back. Just notice that and get back.

Does anyone feel like any mental thought can be higher than God's name? Even if you're taking God's name mentally, at least we are taking God's name. So no matter what we think about ourselves, what plans we make about what to do, everything. Yes, Ram. Sometimes what happens is even the long prayer may seem too difficult when things are really stormy, no? Things are really—the mind is fully attacking you—then just 'Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram.' It sounds weird and whatever, but you just hang on to it for dear life. These are very, very simple ways to just stay with God. Because instead of that, what may happen is if you're trying to pray and we just—'What am I going to do tomorrow? What's going to happen? I don't know, satsang is not really working,' whatever, whatever. Then so when it's like that, you have to check on your own condition and you have to short-circuit the mind where you get the opportunity. So use the pace of prayer. I don't feel like we've spoken about this aspect as much in the past, none of us. So just use the pace of prayer to just keep you with God's name.

So there are sages in India who have said that they take God's name 100,000 times a day, and that's all they did. They didn't do—and they did this very absurdly, like, 'Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram.' Where is the connection in the heart? Is there any of that? Nothing. They didn't care about anything. Just 'Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram.' And you listen to when they would talk; they're talking about the highest Brahman, the highest knowledge of the Ultimate Reality with only one simple practice: just repeat God's name 100,000 times a day. Just like that. Kabir Ji also said constant. Then the gift of that may be that you come to a point where you're not going anywhere, it's quiet. But the thing is not to fool ourselves. It is no, you're not going to get a medal for saying Ram once in five minutes and saying your samadhi is so great. Nobody is going to believe you, firstly, and nobody is going to give you any extra points for anything at all. So you just have to see for yourself how much your mind is bullying you, how much your mind is troubling you, and use the medicine that you've been given.

Yeah, you're right, Father. Like it's prayer, and then it's like prayer, and then it's thinking, and then it's prayer, and then it's thinking, and then it's prayer, you know? And it's like, well, I am praying, you know, taking the excuse that I am praying. And I see what you're saying more clearly with the example.

Yeah, I feel this conversation is very important for everyone to hear because I also got a chance to share what I mean. Because some of you feel like a little or quite offended if I say that, 'Oh, are you praying?' But I'm really saying that if there is capacity to suffer, then we must not be praying like this kind of all the time. 100,000 names of God today, okay? If you need to. If we find ourselves suffering, then yeah. So many of us have heard also the great Neem Karoli Baba's tape of him chanting 'Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram,' being absurd, silly. It's just such a gift. It's such a privilege to take God's name once. And it's deceptively simple and deceptively powerful in the sense that because it's so simple, it seems like it may not be that powerful. It's very, very powerful. Just try this for me and you see that pain will come, some suffering may come, but this prolonged suffering that we seem to go through sometimes just can't happen. It is not possible for God's name and continued suffering to coexist. Just not going to happen.

So when inquiry seems difficult or impossible and the world seems very real, what is the best time to pray? When the world is seeming real, then pray. 'What is happening to me?' and all these things are more important than my life with God's presence? Just pray. Start with one mala. Start with 100 names. Yes, start. And you see that it has its own momentum. You may start feeling like, 'I don't have time today, I have so much going on, I have to do this, I have to do this.' Start with ten, and then you see how time changes, how space changes, how events change. So we said this is Advaita satsang, but it's turned out to be Bhakti satsang as well. It's beautiful that way. All this will also get us to that, just remaining in silent, quiet prayer. The key is not to leave it. Don't leave it. Hang on to it as if your life depends on it, because actually it does. It's not really 'as if.'

Someone said, 'Father, mind says run, run, run, run, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram.'

That is true. That is true. It will still work. Exactly. What is the other example of this? He said, 'Don't have mercy on me.' So there was one disciple in the West or whatever, Eastern Orthodox, where he misheard the prayer or something happened. He said, 'Lord Jesus Christ, don't have mercy on me.' So he kept praying, 'Don't have mercy on me, don't have mercy on me.' But because he was praying with so much devotion, it still worked. So it's not the method which is important, it is the fervor, it is the intention, it is the surrendering. Because every moment that you're taking God's name, you're not being selfish in that moment. You're not making some selfish plotting or something. So prayer, unceasing, unceasing prayer throughout is to remain in God's presence, is to remain in the intention of being in God's presence. It's not easy for any of us. Not easy for me to constantly be in God's presence. I can admit it away and say, 'Of course I am in God's presence, I can't be away from it.' It's true. But rather than this sort of lip-service spirituality, it's good to see that there are many times where Maya catches us. So when you can't be in God's presence, at least have His name on your lips. But we are not to leave God fully. Tiniest finger-hold, hold on to God with whatever strength we can bring to our disposal. Yeah, if 100,000...

In essence, it's not easy for any of us, not easy for me to constantly be in God's presence. I can add it away and say, of course, I am in God's presence, I can't be away from it. It's true, but rather than this sort of lip service spirituality, it's good to see that there are many times where Maya catches us. So when you can't be in God's presence, at least have His name on your lips. But we are not to leave God fully. Tiniest finger hold, hold on to God, whatever strength we can bring to our disposal. Yeah, if 100,000 names of Ram leaves us with some time to think, then make it more. Let's go to... thank you, thank you. You wanted to talk, last four months, sorry. You're asking me whether I want you to talk? Yeah, did you want to talk? I'm talking every day. Let's hear something from you, mind, let's hear something.

What should I speak? How much should I speak? I don't know, whatever is coming, right? You can speak for a minute or two, then I should report what happened in last six months. Yes, you can do that. So when I attended the first satsang in May, before that I was fully connected to God and my plan was not to go in spirituality or anything, no seeking. I stopped seeking completely. I was only studying and God's name and just hold this. Then I heard satsang and I felt, I saw that you are bothered or something in your words, I felt something. I thought that I should attend satsang because I didn't know that when I mean I was completely stopping it, spirituality or everything, satsang, seeking, everything. So I thought I should attend satsang and report it that everything, but you know when I decided that okay I will attend satsang, so after that slowly, slowly I only got disconnected from God completely. I am completely lost now, not connected to God and neither I'm studying nor connected. And what's the reason behind it? I started seeking again. Today I'm following some pointer, next day another pointer. So that was good when I stopped seeking completely. My plan was to get job first and then so that when I attend, not that never attend, someone never going into after job so that I can go again fully into it, not half-heartedly. When I attended the first, I'm ever since then I'm only attending it half-heartedly. That's honest, because the plan was not this. When I message you the last message, so after the what came here, I'm not saying that I was right, but what felt here is I should take care of, it's completely wrong, it's not right, I should take care of my life and job and health and all these things. I never paid attention, I only postponed everything, I only postponed. But then I felt I should take care. So I didn't feel any anger, any disappointment, nothing, just this decision was so strong that I should first get job. What am I doing with my life? But everything was going in that direction. After job maybe I, I don't know, but plan was to fully attend, fully go in this. All this last four months I'm kind of feeling that I'm only sleeping, not that sleep, I'm not aware, but before that two months I don't have any doubt. In March and April I have fully connected to God, I not giving mind any space, not even five minutes, two minutes, only God's name and my job, my study, my work. So this went wrong. I feel so bad about this that like now I feel I have wasted four months and reason is not satsang, reason is seeking. I started seeking again. Today I'm some point, next day I think this point is working this, so God is gone and God was working, God was helping with everything. Yeah, still I feel that I should stop all this. I'm trying to do it, that attend satsang once in a week and do my study also, but I want God badly, there no doubt here, I need God badly. So that's why I need to stop, needed to stop attending satsang and see, but I feel like I took very bad decision to, you know, I was waiting that when I be in a good state or when I not be a frustrated seeker or when I feel connected to God, then I'll talk to you. It created lot of problem, only mind got more and more in space. So I thought now I really should talk to you and tell you that what's happening. And I have very strong unacceptance and of ever since childhood towards this study thing and job thing. I want job, so I feel like then my mind will more, mind will more open and I will start seeing things more clearly what I really want. I want God badly, but you know then it will be very, very clear where I want to go. If you want to speak on something you want, if you can help, what should I do?

So you have to reduce the time frame in terms of your idea of what should be done, whether it is work, attending satsang, wanting God badly, seeking, not seeking. So shorten that time frame to just right now. Right now, do you want God badly?

Yes, I want God badly, but only this study is finished and only...

It's okay, that's okay. So you can finish your study, that's fine. But whenever you turn towards God, then make your love for God moment to moment, just now. Then He will guide you the way, every step of the way, instead of for the next so many years of your life you must do this or for the next six months you must do this. It becomes next step, take this next step, take this next step, take this, you see? So then that is to live in faith, because God will never reveal His full plan to you, not His full, you know, you will never understand. God is a mystery. So just one step at a time. But if right now you feel like you need to work, you need to study, then that is fine too, that is fine too.

Again into things, seeking things. I'm seeking for last 10 years, 15 years, kind of that is wanting God badly anyhow. That's why I took the strong decision that I should not go into it.

If I, you know, I'm juggling things for... when we say 'I want God,' who is the primary character in that, in that narrative, in that phrase?

Seeker.

Seeker. That means that the 'I' that wants God is the primary message, God is the secondary. So 'I am like this when I'm seeking, I am not like this when I'm not seeking, I am with God when I'm not seeking, I am this thing.' So the 'I' is primary. Then we may say that 'I want God badly,' but the 'I' wants God badly for 'I', you see what I mean? The end of seeking is not usually what we hear in modern day satsang, that 'I just, I am that, so I stop seeking.' The end of seeking is to fully, moment to moment, be surrendered to God's will, God's love. If I have acceptance for the job thing, that joblessness is also, whatever job I get that is also, then there is no problem. Make God first, and if He takes you on the job, go. If He takes you to study, then study. Make your life about Him if you want God badly. Or if you want God badly for yourself, then you focus on your work and studies and all of that for now. I feel like God left me one and a half year. Oh, blessings. Let's go to Shup.

Namaste, Father. I just want to say thank you and I have only one prayer. Just empty of this beggar, may this beggar be empty by Your grace, by Your grace, by Your love. And I'm guided by Your help, by Your... You're making me to surrender, You're making me to pray. I cannot express my gratitude. Thank you, Father.

Let's go to K.

Hello, Father. Thank you so much. And I just want to pray with you that by your grace and Jesus Christ and all these sages that you introduced to us, I don't give any importance to this foolishness of the mind and just, yeah, follow what you're saying and what is saying. Thank you. And may I be able also to discern in like, even if it's no suffering and there is excitement about the world, and he said that quickly and revert into prayer or into the heart, just to God.

Let's go to Samia.

Hi, Father. Just wanted to come in front of the Father and yeah, like habit, I was thinking what to say to Father and I feel even stressful about this because I couldn't find anything. I'm not used to this because I was used to bring something to you and even the sense of knowing it. But today, and I felt that I really wanted to come, so it's new for me. It's good, it's good. And it feels normal now, like I don't know, I was just so stressful, but it feels just so normal. I'm with you so... um, I don't know, just thank you. I feel, yeah, just thank you. Thanks to God for everything. Love you.

Bless you, thank you. Thank you. Let's go to An. Thank you, An Ji.

I just, I must, I have to say something on An Ji, I really do. I just, I'm so sorry, are you very tired now or little bit?

But I'm good, I'm good.

I just, I don't want to cut the time with foolishness really, but I know always everything is foolishness whatever I say really, and after I see it clearly. But now something again came up strongly in my mind and you know, there was this time when you was always only read from the Ashtavakra Gita and it was so beautiful and so strong and opening very much. And when you read, there was one sentence and I was so happy about that, and there was something like this: then there is a time when meditation and prayer is getting a kind of burden, a kind of limitation. And I don't know how we can know or not know when this time is, but honestly it was a kind of relief like... it's not what...

The last part, it went too fast, the last part.

Yeah, I said it was kind of relief because when you said last time, sometimes... why relief? Yeah, you ask me why you don't pray all the time and I said, yeah, of course I could do, but honestly I tried and it is too, too, too much, I can't. And also I don't really feel this is the way to the food. You said there is, you know, the plate and the food, and maybe this is not my plate. Because when you was reading the Ashtavakra Gita, I just read the Song of Avadhuta or something, it is so much opening. But whenever I pray, Ananta, this is just... and when you speak about servitude and love and praying, I don't know, Ananta Ji, I really, this is... I don't feel this is my way. I don't feel it anymore. I just feel I just only want to hear the words of, I don't know, the Absolute. And this is somehow is just so clear and yeah, and praying is make me sometimes just so angry, Ananta Ji, and so much anger energy is just coming out from me. And also what I was talking about before, you know, there is kind of like, I don't know, some kind of evil energies around, I don't know from where is also coming out this time. And my body generates some energies as well, it's in my throat, in everywhere is painful, is pressing me, Ananta Ji. Yeah, I just would like if you tell me it's not so necessary to pray and it is enough just you.

That's the answer that you want me to give you?

Yes, I would like, I would love it.

So okay, let's say okay, no prayer for you. Yeah, but full Ashtavakra. Yes? Okay, Ashtavakra, what is the meaning of full Ashtavakra?

Ananta, it is only sometimes even a sentence just grab me out from the centrality of this body. It's like something is just pull me out and take me somewhere nowhere. And after that, yes, this coming back to this kind of centrality of this body, but...

So that is not faster than that, sorry. So you have to use the Ashtavakra, the Avadhuta Gita, the open and empty, the self-inquiry. Yeah, because you say that you prefer the Jnana without saying it. What I'm hearing is that you would prefer self-knowledge over servitude. So you must remain in true self-knowledge throughout the day.

It's much easier throughout the day.

Do you miss like 24 hour, like except the sleep time?

Sleep, your... I see, yeah, yeah.

Don't pray all the time, just be in the truth all the time.

I can promise, I can try to be all the time. But for me is okay, I do that way. Yeah, and then I don't have to pray.

Then you don't have to pray. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, Ananta. And how will you track, how will you track that you're empty all the time or in the truth all the time? How will you track?

I will be never sure, but if I just, I take my... this is here for example, my book, oh, in my bag anyway, is not here now. But sometimes, Ananta, I can do it more constantly, more continuously, because the praying I just give it up and I said, okay, no, no, is enough.

But for me, it's okay. I do that way, yeah. And then I don't have to pray?

Then you don't have to pray. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, Ananta. And how will you track? How will you track that you're empty all the time or in the truth all the time? How will you track? I will be never sure, but if I just take my—this is here for example, my book. Oh, in my bag anyway, it's not here now. But sometimes I can do it more constantly, more continuously, because the praying I just give it up and I said, 'Okay, no, no, it's enough. I don't want to say one more word.'

So when you're empty, when you're in the truth, then can you go to the 'me'?

No, can't go to the 'me'.

So now, till the next week, just try to be empty all of the time, which means don't go to the 'me'. And just be honest with yourself. If I'm not going to the 'me', then who is the one I have to be?

Ananta, could you repeat it please?

So just being the open and empty truth of who you are in the pure perception, in no mental attachment, no mental identification, as much as you can, you see? Just try this. Like last time we said pray all the time and try it, and you said it's very difficult. Let's try this.

I know what you mean. It's going to be also—sorry.

No, no, I'm not predicting at all. It's not a trap. It's not a trap. Maybe your temperament is just like that, that you can just be open and empty all the time. But you must check that before concluding that. No, it must be checked before you make a conclusion.

Yeah, I know I cannot do it all the time. I cannot be empty all the time. I know that.

But it has to be better than you were able to pray. That's it.

Yes, that's—yes. So if prayer, just to say God's name, was difficult—like it was troublesome, attacking, energetic fight was happening, resistance, everything—then just to be empty without any aid, without any requirement? You want to use the self-inquiry, the question 'Who am I?' or no?

Oh no, sometimes I just say like there is nothing, or just stop. And I don't have to sometimes say anything. I just—yes, I just—I don't know. I just know that I don't know, and that's enough. But also sometimes I have to say it. So sometimes I know I have to say out something loud or I have to read a sentence from the Ashtavakra Gita, then it helps me. But yeah.

So use whatever method you feel helps you. Whatever method you feel helps you to remain empty all the time. Because you said it's not important what is the plate, and I was so happy when you said it's not important.

But also Guruji said these birds have to have two—you know, because so—there is a bird with two... fly two... what is in English? You know, these two wings?

Two wings. Wings, sorry.

And also, I don't know, Ananta. I'm just thinking now about that. Maybe something is—try this experiment now. Are you getting scared of this experiment?

No, no, no, no. It is just what I feel now is maybe just halfway. And yeah, maybe it is just halfway and I am too arrogant to be devotional.

Let's try. Don't worry, you're making all these judgments. I'm just simply suggesting that if prayer is not working, then let's be empty all the time and see. And based on that, make a report, and then we'll decide which is the better way. Yeah?

Yeah, so is it okay?

Is it okay? Yes, yes, it's okay. Yeah, to pray all the time or to be empty all the time. Same thing. Okay?

Yeah, okay. Thank you so much, Ananta.

Very welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. So relieved she doesn't have to pray. Okay, let's go to Yani.

Oh, hello. Can you hear me?

Oh yes, my dear, I can.

Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. I'm a little bit nervous because I didn't speak for a long time, but I feel—because I know this is also being recorded.

Yes, it's good. Very good. If you don't like it, we can always remove it from everything.

No, it's okay. It's okay because I feel like the time has come to get out a little bit of this devilish mind's manipulation I have in my mind. And because I'm very grateful to you for everything, for the prayer, for the encouragement. I love you so much.

Oh, I love you too. Thank you.

But really, I know that this mind is—I want to say a little bit about this false loyalty to the teachers. Like, I feel it's connected with money. It has some small issue because—and also there is fear to surrender completely because I feel that at the moment, by grace, that what you are proposing is more direct. But my mind is making me some trips to the previous teacher, which I feel maybe the time is to let him go a little bit. I mean, not to judge or something, but because why waste this opportunity to surrender now, right? Yeah. Oh, it's good. I became a little bit calmer now. Thank you. But I don't know what I truly want to say, that I feel I'm being fooled. I didn't get the point about money and yes, like money, money, money. Because I want to be honest and take this devil out from my mind, that it's all somehow connected to—I feel my mind is telling me sometimes in a form of memories that you have to be responsible, you have to have some at least social status to be working, because you will disappoint the teacher. Maybe even sometimes like the fear of disappointing the previous teacher or abandoning... previous teacher wanted you to work and make money?

Maybe. Oh, I see what you mean. That you did not leave them and make a complete mess of yourself? Is that what it is? I didn't leave them in the sense that they should not feel that after you left them your life is a complete mess. So you have a status, you have something to show them?

Maybe. I think they have some certain lifestyle to their way of showing the truth. Like more energetic, more outwardly, like go for it, also fulfill your dreams and stuff like that. Yes, I see. I see. And so I've been so tormented by this for a long time inside. That's why I feel it's very good. I want to apologize also to you for this James Bond play—I mean, a little bit like coming and going. And I know that you don't want my wallowing in sorrow because of this. I don't feel it from you, but just to speed up all these things because it's like attachment. Maybe attachment. Yes, I understand. I don't want to take too much of your time because maybe I'm a little bit feeling so—

No, it's fine. It's very nice. Don't—it's good. It's just, you know, something is coming to say. It may not be the main point you raised, but I don't feel like I am against you fulfilling your dreams. I'm just trying to change what your dream is. So what is the highest thing you can dream about? Is it about a comfortable life, material wealth, having a Lamborghini or something like that? Is that the highest dream? Could our highest dream not be to live in the presence of that one who is the highest one, the Lord of this universe, the King of everything there is? So let's fulfill that dream. How is that for a dream to fulfill?

Yes, yes, yes. I don't know. I feel also if I say something more because like this taboo also about—I feel a little bit shamed that I sometimes, thanks to the grace, I feel comfortable with having little money. I'm experimenting with this a little bit. Sometimes there is some pain because of this, maybe some discomfort, but I feel a little bit okay. And I feel ashamed to tell people.

Fine, it's fine. To have money is fine. I'm not saying that you must give up on money. I've never said we must renounce outwardly. I'm just saying that don't dream about it. Dream about God.

But in the past, my mind was making such stupid beliefs during the contemplations because my trust has deepened with you. And like, 'Oh, maybe the other teacher wants me to have money and God, and Ananta doesn't want me to have money.' Like this, you know? I had these beliefs, strange falseness in my mind.

Yeah, makes no difference to me either way. You could be the richest man in the universe or you could have no money for your next food; for me, it makes no difference. I hope I'm speaking with full integrity that the day I start to value people based on social status and money, I should stop sharing such. But I don't want you not to have money.

Yes, because maybe the beggar prayer gives off a little bit of this feeling, maybe.

Yeah, it's more of an inner position, more of an inner humility. The beggar servant doesn't have to be an outer expression. It's just we consider ourselves to be a servant of God and just the most humble that we can be. So it is like the Litany of Humility. You can read that.

Sorry, Ananta, I'm interrupting you, but is it normal to have this fear of imagining abandoning if you were attending a little bit one person? This is the mind makes it such a serious deal in the mind. Oh, it's about teachers and it's such a crazy deal, but it's like you're abandoning something. It's crazy, right?

Don't have this fear because all of the so-called teachers, including this one, are just representatives of the Atma within, of the Holy Spirit within. It is not about loyalty to any teacher except that if you feel that you're being loyal to your mind more than a true teacher, then that is a mistake that you're making. But all the instruments of God are only in service to Him. And if you're not spiritual shopping, if you're not just finding excuses to escape from remaining with God—which a true teacher will impose upon you, that you have to do that more and more—and if it's not just escape from that, then there is no such thing as abandoning or loyalty, and you don't have to worry about it.

Today I feel a little bit like exposing. I don't know if it is okay, because it gives some relief. It gives some relief. And also one of the reasons why I was maybe playing this James Bond like coming and not going, it was because I had some hope in my Ravana's mind that I will go to that previous teacher and I will maybe show my progress that I gained here. I don't know, and I want her to look at me. This is, you know...

It's quite natural. Some of these things, don't worry. Yes, they will play out on the surface, but don't make them so important. It's sometimes it can happen that we want to prove that, 'Oh, we are good, you know, we're doing fine, we're good.'

I don't know, I don't know. But I think that will be good for now. And I hope—I don't know, can you please bless this stupid fool that I will have a little bit more courage to speak with my parents—I mean, not parents, but family generally—about being open? Not in a way that I want to be arrogant in this, like 'I am right,' but more humbly speak to them that my way, I want to follow God and like this. Thank you.

From one stupid fool to pray for another, I have a feeling that God has a soft corner for us foolish ones. May God give you all the courage, compassion, patience to be able to communicate openly with your loved ones about what your inner quest is about. Full love, full blessings. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Moni.

Thank you. You know, it's about that time where I start speaking a lot of—sorry for being so late. And I see her lately come up usually at the end of satsang for some reason. Usually this time I start talking about drinking up galaxies instead of water, all kind of—

I love hearing that.

I just wanted to check in with you and thank you so much for the example with Kisha. That was very much favored. I'm glad that conversation happened. But yeah, to—

Okay, let's go to Monei. Thank you. You know, it's about that time where I start speaking a lot of... sorry for being so late. And I see her lately come up usually at the end of satsang for some reason. Usually this time I start talking about drinking up galaxies instead of water, all kind of...

I love hearing that. I just wanted to check in with you and thank you so much for the example with Kaka Bhushundi. That was very much favored. I'm glad that conversation happened. But yeah, to be honest, in the beginning of satsang, even though my heart is full in it, what you're sharing with the contemplative prayer, somehow I don't know, not being able to focus. It's very difficult.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult. We must expect that it's going to be difficult because we are used to now for so many years to constantly hear things, no? Constantly hear... like I've been talking for the past one hour or longer. But just with this contemplative prayer where nothing is being said, it'll be very difficult. But I have a feeling it will be worth it.

I understand, I understand. Yeah, I'm not expecting it to be easy because without that constant accumulation of knowledge and entertainment and some jokes and some drama and something which constantly happens in conversation, just to sit quietly with nothing moving on the outside, it's not going to be so easy. I also more like feel somehow... I don't know, maybe because just to say somehow, I don't know if this is true, but like the seeming situation right now here, at least it seems very, very challenging and very difficult. And because of that, all this play is going. So my whole system is like, 'Do the prayer like that.' Yes, like when it's going, the prayer. Yeah, that's how I felt. Thank you for it.

It is the prayer that way. Although when times are that stormy, that kind of prayer may be the lifeline that we have. But if you prefer inquiry, then just inquire with full fervor. Who is upset? Who is feeling scared? Who is... just use it to go deeper and deeper within.

And can you please, maybe if it's God's will, bless me that I soon can come to you or to Gaji? If it's... I don't know. To be honest, I don't know if this is a surrendering way, but my heart is like... it's a little bit maybe mixed with feverishness from the mind, maybe. But my heart, like, I'm with you as much as I can and trying to follow God's will as much as I can, even though to be honest, it's somehow not so clear.

I'm just fully here for you. And yeah, it's always not fully clear. It's always going to be not fully clear because that leap of faith is important. To act in God's will is always going to be an act of faith, and faith means that it's not fully rationally clear. It doesn't make sense. And it's not even that many times we just feel like so clear from the heart many times too. And if that means to visit Bangalore or Sahaja, or to stay wherever you are, whatever is the highest. Stop. Even Zoom is telling us. Singing, what are you saying? Where's the other mic?