Contemplating the Ashtavakra Gita - 19th August 2024

Are you sitting down right now? How many of you are sitting down? Nobody sitting down is sitting down. Do you really know that? On what basis do you know that? How do you know that you're not sleeping and having a dream and dreaming of sitting down? How do you know that your perceptions are not fooling you, like a mirage? So what is that knowledge which you really, really know? What is the basis of that knowledge, that knowing? Where are you right now? Where are you looking at the perceptions and sensations of this body from? Are you in time? What time is it where you are? What were you before this waking state? What will you be after this waking state? If you are not this body, what does your face look like? What do you actually know? Who sees that your eyes are seeing? Who sees that your ears are hearing? Our mind cannot answer these questions. In our head, we don't know the answers.

What is your name? Whatever answer comes, who does it belong to? Do you exist, or do you think you exist? Can you see that you exist? Can you hear that you exist? Can you smell your existence? Is any story about your life true? Is any memory about your life true? Who does this life belong to? So this is how this conversation begins. How can knowledge be acquired? How can liberation be attained? What is liberation? Are the two questions different or are they the same? And if liberation is just the dropping of false knowledge, then what is the false knowledge that I need to drop? Are my eyes telling me the truth? Is my mind telling me the truth? Where can the truth be found? Okay, if you have found it, where have you found it? If you haven't found it, where is it missing? Who is looking for the self? Did the self lose itself? And if liberation is the letting go of false knowledge, then Janaka asks, 'How is renunciation possible?' What needs to be renounced? False knowledge. But how is that possible till I don't come to true knowledge?

So Ashtavakra replies: 'If you aspire after liberation, my child, shun the objects of the senses as poison and seek forgiveness, sincerity, kindness, contentment, and truth as nectar.' If you aspire after liberation, my child, shun the objects of the senses as poison. How are we holding them? How are we holding the objects of the senses? So is the sage saying that we must be sitting with closed eyes, never experience anything in the waking state? That's how this can sound. So if you were to shun them, how would we shun them? And he says not just shun them, but as poison. Shun the objects of your senses as poison. How are we holding them? You're holding them as precious, as if they have some preciousness. So is he talking about shunning them with the attention alone? It's not about an avoidance. To remove the grasping, to remove our attachment from sense objects. So if we don't grasp, we don't attach, can we judge? Can we interpret? Can we label? Would that be shunning? So to shun is to shun the labels, the narratives, the judgments, the stories of that which appears and disappears.

So empty of these attachments, narratives, judgments, he says we must seek forgiveness, sincerity, kindness, contentment, and truth as nectar. So sense objects he's called them poison; kindness, sincerity, contentment, forgiveness, and truth is the nectar. And the thing with these is that nobody pays much attention to this sentence because everyone just presumes, 'I'm kind.' Do we really know? What is the evidence of our kindness versus our unkindness? Of every opportunity that we get to be kind, how many do we take? Is one kind deed enough in a day? One kind deed and hundreds of selfish ones, that's enough? Do we rush to forgive or do we rush to resent? Do we rush to pick up grievances or to drop them? And why is it that we want to ignore this line and get to the real stuff? The sage said that this is the nectar, and he's saying because without this, true self-realization is not possible. So all of this put together is what sometimes is called pure heart. And truth is revealed only to the pure-hearted.

So be more kind, be more forgiving, be more sincere, be happier, content in God's presence and His love, and seek only the truth. So the sages actually together have set the foundation for the spiritual journey. First, there must be a seeker who says, 'I don't know what is true, please help me. I want to know who I am. I want to be liberated from this Maya, from this suffering, and I want to renounce all that is false. Please help.' Without this occurring to us deep within, that something is not complete, something is not right in our usual worldview, we don't start to seek that which is beyond the mind and the senses. So there must be a deep longing for that inside, whether that is a longing in the form of a deep love or deep seeking for what is true, or both. And to remain like a beginner like this, a great king who is known to be so wise approaches his teacher, his master, with such deep humility saying, 'I don't know anything. How can I find knowledge?'

And the great Ashtavakra is saying that before we can talk about what reality looks like, you must let go of your grasp on that which is false, and you must forgive, you must be kind, full of compassion, sincere. The sincerity we spoke about last time is very important. How honest are we with ourselves? Or is spirituality a new method to be elevated, to be special? How sincerely do we pray? How sincerely do we inquire? With how much integrity do we look at ourselves? Okay, so with that background, with those foundations, move forward into this beautiful pointing. May it bless you all. May it reveal itself in your heart and not get stuck in your head. So the sage Ashtavakra says: 'You are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. You are not earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. Not even space. You are not made up of the earth, water, fire, air, or space. In order to attain liberation, know the self as the witness of all of these and as consciousness itself.'

Don't understand, just meet the words deeply. You're neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation, know the self as the witness of all of these and as consciousness itself. The self is the witness of all these perceptions. Is the witness... I see him sitting in front of me, so is sight witnessing? I hear the traffic on the road, so is hearing witnessing? In this case in the world, it is what witnesses sight, smell, taste, touch, feeling. Is sight being seen? Is hearing being heard? Who is the witness of all these perceptions? Is it perception itself? You are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation, know the self as the witness of all these and as consciousness itself. How is this true knowledge to be attained? Back to the first question. In order to know yourself, know the self as the witness. How to know that? It's like I say, who is the self?

What witnesses smell, taste, touch, feeling, sight? Being seen is hearing, being heard. Who is the witness of all these perceptions? Is it perception itself? For you are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation, know the Self as the witness of all these and as Consciousness itself. How is this true knowledge to be attained? Back to the first question: in order to know yourself, know the Self as the witness. How to know that? It's like I say, 'Who is the Self?' You say, 'It is the witness.' I know then everybody should be free. Everyone in at least Indian spirituality has heard about the sakshi, the witness, and everybody knows that the sakshi is not a thing; it's a principle. Some call it a... everyone knows this. So then everyone is free?

In order to attain liberation, know the Self as the witness of all of these. And remember the first question: how is true knowledge to be acquired? Shunning, shunning the senses, being open, forgiving, kind, sincere—all of that sets us in the right mode. It lets us in the right mode to access that which is deeper than this world play. How do you recognize yourself as the witness?

Full trust in... it's full trust in the living being. So the quality of the living being is very different from the quality of perception. Perception is like an image, something like a media. The living being is full of life, sort of glows, shining.

Yeah, so very good, very good. So how do we recognize this being, Consciousness, and that which is witnessing even that? Well, um, just keep our attention on it, huh? Keep our attention on, keep our attention on the witnessing, on the witness. Keep our attention on being itself. And then let's look at this. Let's pause here because these are very subtle, delicate areas. So let's say that we have to bring our attention and to keep our attention on that witnessing. Anyone has done that? You've done that? So attention needs a quality, isn't it? At least one quality. What is the quality of this witnessing? Can you bring your attention to that which is purely qualityless? You can bring your... I call it attention, but you can bring your knowingness to the light itself. Now, how do you do that?

So let's look at the attention topic a little bit because this is very important for us.

Away from the senses, yes. To shun the objects of senses.

One way to read that is to say, 'Okay, now I will pull my attention aside.' But can we really? Bring your attention to a nothing. Can you do it? No, because the spectrum is bright colorful world, dark empty space. But that dark empty space is also being perceived, is it not? Are you able to follow this? This is very, very important because this is where most inquiry gets done. They feel that, or we feel that, to withdraw our attention away from the bright colorful objects of the world into a darkness is to come to the witnessing. But does this darkness look like witnessing? No, it is also witnessed. Is it witnessing you? No, you are witnessing it. Even the darkness. Please follow. Are you able to follow all this? Because this will prevent you from getting stuck.

So don't think of the withdrawal of attention from worldly objects into the turtle mode of dark empty space. Don't confuse that dark empty perception to be the no-thingness of the awareness of the witnessing, because you are witnessing that. That darkness is not witnessing you. So that then cannot be the witnessing. You are aware of it; it is not aware of you. With me? Can attention go deeper than that?

It seems like the experience here is like what Arvind was saying is I'm withdrawing the attention, then there's the dark empty space which is still separate from where it's being witnessed from. Then there is a short effort, lack of a better word, where the effort is to turn the attention seemingly towards the witnessing. But as soon as that effort is made, it seems to dissolve into something that I can't describe.

The attention dissolves?

Yeah, it just seems to... that effort to turn is a seeming turning, but then before I know it, whether it has turned or not, it's gone.

So is the effort gone or the goer?

Both seem to. And what remains is just an isness. And whether or not there is darkness or not in perception doesn't seem to matter. Like, there's no attention on that darkness.

Where are you in all of this?

In the middle of it all. Seemingly the middle. Middle meaning like, yeah, it's everything that I am.

Very good. So let's pause here. And we'll come to Prakash in a moment after that. Let's take five minutes because we've covered some major ground about attention, witnessing, awareness, Nirguna, Saguna. Let's really contemplate this for five minutes quietly and then we'll come back to the conversation. So the sage told us: you are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation, know the Self as the witness of all of these and as the Consciousness itself. So we'll come to the 'as the Consciousness' part in a moment. As the witness of all of these, how do we know this Self? Just contemplate deeply in your heart. Okay.

Let's see what Prakash was saying. He was saying the sakshi in my experience is like a... not like a deep focus on something, but a dispersal of focus completely. Thinning focus so thin that it's not really catching on to anything. Yeah. Like, who witnesses the focus or the absence of focus? The me, this me, this 'I'. Where we recognize this is where we have to stay.

Remember what I said about what it means to be inward facing. Find that within yourself which is beyond time and space, and we bowed down at the altar of that. It is the same as this. Where recognize yourself as the sheer witnessing, as a sheer awareness. Stay there. With what? With what can you stay there? For that is the truth. But what is staying there? Let's put it this way, huh? That is attention. Attention can go out and come in. Is that the 'stay there'? Attention can't go into this, isn't it? So when the sages say, Bhagavan says, 'remain, abide,' and I'm saying that it is the same as being inward facing, because your attention cannot be on that which is beyond time and space. Attention is only for objects in time and space, you see? Or the absence. You can notice an absence of it, but that which is beyond, attention cannot go. So you have to stay where attention cannot go, which is beyond attention. That is your heart altar. That is the place of self-recognition.

But what was... this effort to some initiate effort to um get to the point and then there's a lot of, I would say, internal self-resolution in that. There's a sense that the one who's looking and the light that's seen, it sort of by itself dissolves into oneness. And then I think there's beyond that you can't do anything, but you can just sort of know that this is my being. You know, this light is from me, so I know this light. There's only oneness here. So there's no separation between somebody looking and what's being looked at. There's a lot of contentment that comes from that because the seeking is sort of dissolved. And then you just feel to yourself very happy that this is my being, you know, this light is from me, you know, and I'm aware of it.

And then, yeah, just for today's conversation, we will keep aside all the byproducts and even keep aside—although it's not really possible—but not put any focus on even the being, you see? Because this one line: 'In order to attain liberation...' the promise is huge. Everyone actually is searching for liberation, even if they're not consciously doing it. So this liberation... the sage is telling us, 'In order to attain liberation, know the Self as the witness of all of these.' So the promise is huge and the pointer is very direct and straight. So know yourself as the witness of all of these. And this knowing it just notionally, conceptually, will not do. 'Who are you?' 'I, the witness of all of these.' That is just conceptual at best. Use that as a pointer, but really know it. Really know where you can know it first. In your attempt to really know it, you'll come to the instrument of this knowledge also, where it can be known—at least the negation of the false instrument of perception and thinking, conceptualization.

So the promise is huge. You are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation, know the Self as the witness of all of these. Do you find a Self there? Do you find yourself there? Is it an experience? Is it a state? Do you see yourself as a witness of all of these? Do you see an absence of yourself as a witness and can either conclude that I am that? This is the most pristine knowledge. There's nothing higher in the universe that you can discover.

So the sage says, 'Know the Self as the witness of all of these and as Consciousness itself.' How to meet such a statement? As a witness of all of these and as Consciousness itself. What is Consciousness? Knows, or the one who... this being, this 'I am' is Consciousness. It knows everything. But I know it. Because the way it knows everything and I know it need to be contemplated. Because if I knew it as an object, I would say it is not 'I am'. Do we see this glass and we say 'I am'? We see it as an object. I know it as perception. I don't say 'I am'. So how do we know this Consciousness? What is the nature of awareness? The knowing that we call awareness, is it the same as perception?

Take the mind, give it to G. G connected?

I was just looking at the Sanskrit words. Sometimes the English translation can be misleading. It says 'chid-rupam'. So what is translated as Consciousness, the sage actually says is 'chid', the very nature of awareness. Before that, he says... that is one very difficult to articulate this, but it says witness that I am in a sense, and my form is chit.

Exactly, exactly. That's exactly... there's nothing wrong with the translation. So that sakshi is what I am, and as Consciousness I am my form. Like, it's not really form, but I exist, I be as I'm being as Consciousness, but I am the pure witnessing itself. Same. So if this Consciousness was merely perceived, is it then we would say it is Consciousness? You would not say 'I am'. The 'my rupa' is the chit, the Consciousness.

So at the risk of oversimplifying, but and I'm not trying to be mental, but I think it sort of helps me a little bit in this because you said it's so subtle. The cinema hall analogy helps me a lot. It's like, and it's not an insentient cinema hall, but a living cinema hall where every aspect of the cinema hall is alive. So there are the objects on the screen, which is the stuff that the sensors pick up, they grow, you know. So I mean, kind of they have a...

Okay, so for then I know where this is going. So just leave the support, leave this support system even for today. You can pick it up later. So without even this, how do you know that you are this Self which is the witnessing? Don't rely on any comparison, analogy, metaphor, nothing at all.

I mean, it's, you know, it's just indisputable, right? Because you are just... it's you cannot dispute it. It's beyond thought, beyond dispute. You just know that every moment of your existence, you know the light of Consciousness, and it's unchanging unlike anything else in the...

How is that knower of this light known?

It's something which is just core to you, just core knowledge.

Then how come everybody is not free?

Because they didn't come to satsang, you know? Because I mean, really, it's just that the mind obscures it. The movement of the mind, the thoughts obscure this background, you know, the knowing of the presence.

Yeah, without the knowing of the presence, it's just words. What about the knowing of itself? That's why I said the second part of the sentence we'll keep later. 'Know the Self as the witness of all of these.' Are we saying that without relying on the light of presence, we could not know ourself as the pure awareness itself? It is true in the sense that only in the...

It's just that the mind obscures it. The movement of the mind, the thoughts, obscures this background, you know, the knowing of the presence. Yeah, without the knowing of the presence, it's just words. What about the knowing of itself? That's why I said the second part of the sentence we'll keep for later: know the Self as the witness of all of these. Are we saying that without relying on the light of presence, we could not know ourself as the pure awareness itself? It is true in the sense that only in the light of presence can it be known, okay? But is it known only as the one that gives light to presence? Now the words will become too... so that's why I'm saying just try to follow as much as you can. To attain liberation, know yourself as the witness of all of these, which is all the sense objects, all the phenomena. Every phenomena, including thought, imagination, memory, body sensation, everything. This has to break through your intellect, break through your mind, go beyond attention. Not the content of attention, but ask yourself: who is aware even of attention? Yes. So, who is aware even of what content attention is bringing? You are that pure awareness which manifests itself as Consciousness itself. So there is no distinction between 'I' and 'I am' except that 'I' is prior to 'I am'. Not prior in time, but prior beyond existence, beyond the boundary of existence and non-existence. Independent of existing, whereas existing depends on 'I'. So this is the method of contemplation to find that which only something deeper can meet. That's how you break the stronghold of your mind and the seeming reality of perceptions from your life. This is how inquiry is done. Who is this 'I'?

The inquiry, if you sincerely ask now, here... here you ask 'Who am I?' Here means beyond the mind, beyond attention, beyond visualization, beyond narratives, beyond any frames. Just naked, fully empty. Here you ask 'Who am I?' It will take you to the Consciousness part. What conscious? You'll come to that, but I don't want to give any support because the minute Consciousness comes into the picture, then it is the light of Consciousness. In the light of Consciousness, the play of attention happens, the play of perception happens. So let's witness. Witness that which witnesses. Is that you? Yeah, it is. Remember the question: who is aware of the perception of this hand? How is it known? The question is the answer. How it comes? Ask, yes. What is the mode? What is the instrument of the answer? This is where Bhakti and Gyana merge. Let's see if there's more to pick on in the next few.

Then the sage says: 'If you detach yourself from the body and rest in Consciousness, you will at once be happy, peaceful, and free from bondage. You do not belong to the Brahmanas or any other caste, or to any ashrama. You are not perceived by the senses.' Everything that is perceived is perceived with senses, and that sensory perception we call attention, isn't it? With attention, we perceive objects. But the sage says you are not perceived by the senses. 'Unattached, formless, and witness of all are you. Be happy.' We'll come to the 'be happy' in a moment. So you do not belong to any category, caste, any of these things. You are not perceived by the senses. Then what are you perceived by? 'Unattached, formless, and witness of all are you.' Formless. How will the formless be known? We can perceive form, but how do we know the formless? And remember again, the darkness is a form. The absence of light is also perceived. So you cannot be perceived with the mind.

I mean, you recognize that the witnessing is impersonal. It's impersonal. It's not a doing of...

No, but I'm saying how do you recognize? So, not 'what' about it for now, but just the mode of recognizing. So when you also recognize simultaneously that you are that one who witnesses, not what you are recognizing, but with what are you recognizing? Recognizing with the eyes of witnessing itself. With the eyes of witnessing. Does it have eyes? No, the Self doesn't have any eyes, but its nature is to illumine. If I don't say 'how do we know,' how do we know? Because you are. Do the glass know it's a glass? No, glass doesn't know it's a glass. I know. So the again, the analogy is of the eye cannot see itself and the knife cannot cut itself. All this cannot be utilized because we have to come to the recognition of the Self. And we have seen that what are not the modes of the recognition? Not the modes are attention, not the modes of thinking, conceptual knowledge, any of that. Then where should we remain? So when Bhagavan said 'remain' or 'abide,' was it eyes closed, sending attention deep inside your forehead or something like that? It can go there naturally, it's fine. The withdrawal can happen naturally. But what is this 'remain'? With what to remain?

So the recognition that the witness of... you know, like when you say 'how do you know it's you?' Yeah, exactly. How do I know it's me is how I recognize that the eyes are not seeing, I'm seeing. All of that, all those questions, answers intuitively, but not... we can't see how. How am I swimming? By walking? No, I'm not. Oh, by live with me. I can't switch to that. That mode by which I... it is me.

It's a mode? Is it a mode? A mode means it's on or off. Can it go off?

It feels just that it is me who is looking at this hand.

How? Did you do anything? It's always on. That's why it's not a mode. How? Yeah, how? Yeah, yeah. You of the same... what is it? That's what's called awareness. I mean, change... I don't know how that...

What I'm trying to avoid with this line of answering is the idea that we will very quickly get where we'll say it only knows itself, it is only aware of awareness, there's no other knowledge. So okay, so where do we know? How do we know unconditional love? Does our attention tell us this quality of love is unconditional? This is... it doesn't. This is a very beautiful conversation, very beautiful contemplation. And as we are speaking this much, just make sure that you're not becoming mental about it because your mind can never grasp at this. Just like these hands can't hold any air or space, your mind grasping will not get you anywhere. And if you're concluding conceptually that you know this, forget about it. And if you're concluding conceptually that you don't know this, forget about it. Neither of those positions are important or helpful.

'Virtue and vice, pleasure and pain are of the mind, not of you. Oh all-pervading one, you are neither the doer nor the enjoyer. Verily you are ever free. Virtue and vice, pleasure and pain are of the mind, not of you. Oh all-pervading one, you are neither doer nor enjoyer. Verily you are ever free. You are the one seer of all and really ever free. Verily this alone is your bondage: that you see yourself not as the seer but as something other.' The question really is not as simplistic as it may sound. It may sound like you take yourself to be... you see something other than the seer. Then what I've seen very often that happens is that people just start taking themselves to be the seer. 'Oh, who are you?' 'I'm the seer.' 'So what you want for breakfast?' 'I, the seer of Consciousness manifesting as...' You see, like that. But it remains a lip service. It remains this conceptual knowledge. And this is the most dangerous form of knowledge because the small 'I' masquerading as the big 'I' is the biggest problem. That itself is a spiritual ego.

So don't just take yourself to be like, 'Now from now on I'm just going to consider that I am the seer.' That's not it. It has to be from inside. That you took the walls to be white and now you see that they are yellow, but that would be perceptual knowledge. This is a knowledge which is deeper than that. So it's not a mere question of taking yourself to be... 'I don't know, but I'm not the doer.' Isn't it very popular to say like that? 'I'm not the doer.' Then if you are not, then who is? What you're trying to say is that the false one is not the doer, but why you refer to yourself as the false one? So don't get into those mental traps. And that's why I said this is very dangerous knowledge because it can be taken conceptually and we will only become spiritual jerks if you take it conceptually. The idea is to really dive deep within your heart. Use the questions, use the pointers, use all the contemplations that you're writing down to go deeply into the place of pure insight.

May you recognize yourself without perceiving. Where you are not in the boundary of being and not being. Cannot do it with your attention. Cannot do it with your thinking. Think and think and think, it will never be a product of your thinking. You may go to the most beautiful, sublime experience, but it'll never be the experience. You may go to a sheer limbo where it's all dark and empty, but it'll never be that limbo. The looking in this way will make you so innocent, your intellect so humble, make you so soft in your heart. Soft is not the absence of courage, but not proud, not righteous. Open, innocent like an infant, that you recognize the grace. It leads you to this recognition.

'Do you who have been bitten by the great black serpent of egotism... do you who have been bitten by the great black serpent of egotism, "I am the doer," drink the nectar of the faith "I am not the doer" and be happy.' Am I reading this right? 'Do you who have been bitten by the great black serpent of egotism, "I am the doer," do you drink the nectar of this faith "I am not the doer" and be happy.' Nectar of the faith. What a phrase that is. What is the Sanskrit? Nectar of the faith. How is it different? We have the belief that 'I'm the doer,' but you have the faith that 'I that I took myself to be, the ego, the me, is not the doer.' What is the difference? Belief is based on the thoughts, the acceptance of that thought. Faith is based on insight. Okay, right. Because belief... suppose I believed and believed and believed and believed and believed and believed and believed. Would that become faith? Many feel that that is faith. But it may happen that I believed and believed and believed and I became so innocent in the process that I came to insight. What is insight? Direct knowledge. You're getting to the point. How do you know that you are this pure witnessing, this pure awareness, in the same way that you have faith? No, I'm trying to break it from thinking that it's like a pseudo-mechanical, pseudo-scientific process. 'If I just use my attention hard enough, deep enough, I will come to the scientific litmus test of who I am.' It's not about that. That's why I love that phrase he said: 'the nectar of faith.' And I don't know whether he actually said that in Sanskrit, but it works.

So Father, when we ask internally 'Who am I?', then it's up to the Satguru within to reveal itself. So we're just putting with faith and sincerity and humility, and in our longing for it, we float the question out there. We say 'Who am I?' and then the revelation in terms of the shifts that happen and whatever we're experiencing is not in our hands. We're only just asking, praying. So at that point, there's nothing we are doing. We're just trusting, and he never fails. He shows us like something... you know, something shifts and we get... very difficult to put into words what we see, but certainly there's some mercy, some something, some response that happens to that question. And you know, we're not in control. It's just... I would say that's sort of kind of like... you know, you've come to some point, we made some effort and come to some point, and the rest is up to Grace. But he never fails us. So then, you know, the faith... you know what I mean? He instead rewards the faith, but we can't force him. We don't know what it is. Just ask and you know, it's his will. He shows us, or maybe he wants us to be more patient. It's not in our hands.

Yeah, but how do we know all this? Today is that kind of... I wanted to say, so when we inquire, it... when I sit actually and inquire, it reaches a place where I have nothing.

To some point and the rest is up to Grace. And but he never fails us, so then you know the faith. You know what I mean? He instead rewards the faith, but we can't force him. We don't know what it is. Just ask and you know it's his will. He shows us, or maybe he wants us to be more patient. It's not in our hands. Yeah, but how do we know all this? Today is that kind of satsang I wanted to say. So when we inquire, when I sit actually and inquire, I reach a place where I have nothing to rest on, basically. No nothing to rest on.

Rest on, yeah.

So because when in the mind, I know it very clearly that there's either some state which is also transitory—it comes and goes—or it could be an idea or something that I rest on. But here in this place where you are taking us, it's totally beyond the mind, like you said, you know? And I can myself feel here that there's nothing here that I can rest on, because if I'm again resting on something, then again something tries to check and discard that, you know?

Yeah, yeah. So we are not relying on any concept. We are not relying on any perception. Yes, then what are we relying on?

Father, is...

Yeah, and he's absolutely right that it's a matter of Grace. It's a matter of the Satguru's mercy on us to reveal the truth to us. But I hope all of you are getting the intention of my prodding and pushing is so that you can break all the pride that you have, all the intellectual reliance that you have, and really seek that Grace, seek that revelation by using every bit of effort you think you have at your disposal. If you think you have intellect, use it. If you think you can perceive really well, use it. If you think that you are in control of your attention, use it. Use everything so that then this highest recognition, which will come by Grace, which will come by his mercy in the absence of our pride, the absence of our doership, reveals itself.

Burn down the forest of ignorance with this fire of conviction: 'I am the one and pure Consciousness' and be free from grief and be happy. So, but rather than the word conviction, I prefer faith. And rather than even like vishwas, which can many times be like belief, it's more aan, I feel like, a deeper place of trusting our insight at the cost of, at the risk of getting it wrong because of our perception. Perception is showing us that he is him, he is in, she is her, there's a floor. Perception is showing us all of this, but in perception there's no room for God. Where is the room for God in perception? Where is the room for insight in perception? So faith takes us beyond perceptual realms to the realm of insight, to the realm of intuition, to the realm of the guidance of the Atma within.

And the more we cling on to false knowledge which we take to be true knowledge—nobody wants to cling on to false, remember we used to talk about this? Nobody wants to cling to the false, so because we take the false to be true, that's where we are trapped. And in the trap there is no room for God. There is no room for truth. There's no room for the Satguru. You tell me, where is the heart temple? Where is the room for the holy altar without faith?

Then he says: You are the Consciousness, Bliss, Supreme Bliss in and upon which this universe appears. So, Sat-Chit-Ananda. And for a long time I've said that just stay, you stay with Sat and Chit; the Ananda will take care of itself. If you start attaching to the Ananda, then Sat will run away, you see? So Sat is in the right order. Don't try to bypass Sat and Chit and focus on the Ananda. So you are that Consciousness, Bliss, Supreme Bliss. Yes, to just be there is no greater gift you can give to yourself. There is no higher bliss than that because you are in the presence of God. This being, this presence is God. You are one with him as him. That has to be the Supreme Bliss in and upon which this universe appears, superimposed. In and upon which this universe appears superimposed like a snake on a rope. You are that pure Consciousness, be pure being.

You are the witness of this Consciousness, this pure being. This pure being is that on which these universes, they come and go. Just like you can imagine a snake—cobra, rattlesnake, all kinds of snake—on one rope. You are that being in which all the realms come and go. Everything happens superimposed on you. So we can't really say 'within you' in that way, like there's never a snake within the rope. And we can't actually even say 'superimposed,' but it comes closer than many words that we may use. On the surface of the ocean that you are, this play of waves seems to create a worldview, a realm of perception. It's just bouncing of light on the waves that seems like all this Maya is happening, but you remain untouched, unchanging through all of this.

He who considers himself free is indeed free, and he who considers himself bound remains bound. As one thinks, so one becomes, is a popular saying in this world and it is quite true. Now this part is extremely dangerous. Empty yourself of false knowledge. Remain in the faith of that which you're finding to be true. So remember the poison of attachment, of grasping, and the nectar of faith. It is not a question of considering yourself free, not a question of just conceptually taking yourself to be free. Let go of all conditions, let go of all ideas and see that you are free in your heart. See in the deeper place that you are ever free, non-changing, untouched, unaffected Self. The pure witnessing is what you are.

Could be translation, could be, I don't know which, in what mode it was being said, but this much I feel is clear to all of you. There is not just a mental switch. The Self is witness, all-pervading, perfect, one, free Consciousness, actionless, unattached, desireless and quiet. Through illusion it appears as if it is of the world, that is subject to the ever-repeating cycle of birth and death. The Self in reality is the witness, all-pervading, perfect, one, free Consciousness. Actionless means no change, no movement, unattached, desireless and quiet. Whose Self is this talking about? You. This is your reality. He's talking about both the 'I' and 'I am.' So that's why he says witness and then says Consciousness. Actually there's no actual distinction. We make that distinction between awareness and Consciousness because how will we deal with aware Consciousness?

So that which is, the hand is closed like this and the hand is open like that, you see? This awareness, the hand remains like that, but now there are fingers. So would you say that there are fingers or would you say just the hand? You say both, no? In a sense, if you want to look at them as fingers, you find the finger. But the hand is always the hand and the fingers appear and disappear. Is it? Maybe we can find a better metaphor for this. It's like water solidifies when it's cold and becomes ice, you see? So is there such a thing as ice exactly? But if it was just water, then it wouldn't hurt if I was to throw it at you in a way. So this being in its play appears and that can hurt, but this what it is made up of is really water itself. So can we say there is ice or not? It depends. But one thing is clear: that it cannot be without water.

So the nature of Consciousness is like that. The nature of being is like that, completely reliant on the witness, the pure awareness, and yet it is the all-pervading, you see? So in the sense that we are sitting within the realm of Consciousness, to claim that there is no Consciousness is a bit absurd with me. I know it's confusing to the mind. We can't really make solid categorization, but you get the sense that the pure awareness, it witnesses even the birth and the merging back of Consciousness itself. Waking state—what wakes up? So that has to be the greater, that has to be the prior. And because that is the only, then Consciousness also has to be made up of that itself, like ice has to be made up of water, but water doesn't have to become ice.

Then he says: Having given up external and internal self-modifications and the illusion that I am the reflected individual self, meditate on the Atma as immutable Consciousness and non-dual. So the translation is not very elegant, but give up the idea that I am something. Remain on the 'I am' itself. The Atma itself is the 'I am,' is this Satguru presence, is the Holy Spirit. So this 'I am' is Consciousness, the being that we meet within ourselves. Remain with that, and in the light of this Satguru presence, in the light of this Atma, we recognize who we really are. And that which we recognized who we really are is beyond even the Atma, beyond even the Consciousness, but only in the light of the... are you getting it? So it's independent, but is recognized only in the light of the Atma within.

So how do you recognize? After 10, 12 years of satsang, we can finally answer this question. How do you recognize the Self? Meditate on the Atma as immutable Consciousness and non-dual. So don't create any duality. My child, you have long been caught in the noose of body consciousness. This is noose, N-O-O-S-E, not the news of the Sufi or the Orthodox. The noose of body consciousness. Sever it with the sword of the knowledge that 'I am Consciousness' and be happy. So you've taken yourself to be the body; now replace it with the insight that you are Consciousness itself. Yeah, you can see how easy it can be misunderstood. It can sound like, if you're not spiritually mature, it can sound like what the ego is saying: 'Give up the idea I am the body and just pick up the idea I am Consciousness.' Isn't it that what so many people do? That is not the... just by doing that, it is not going to happen. So give up on the false idea, and the truth does not need an idea. The truth is heart insight, is the Atma Darshan, because of Atma.

You are unattached, actionless, self-effulgent and without any blemish. This indeed is your bondage, that you practice meditation. So stop praying, stop meditating. So at some point our spirituality or our pride in our meditation, how much we do, can also get in our way. Be empty of all of that. The first time I heard this line was about 17, 18 years back, maybe longer, at the Art of Living. So there Guruji was Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. So he shared this line with us. He said, 'All of you who have not meditated, raise your hands.' So whoever had done meditation raised the hands. So he says, 'All of you close your ears, this line is not meant for you,' which I feel like is a very sweet way of saying it. So he said that all the ones who have not meditated, please don't hear this. Only the meditators know what is the fruit of meditation.

So you can hear and you can get a sense of what is being shared, you see? That after a point you become empty of meditator, meditation, meditating—all of these things, they vanish. But it's very dangerous knowledge again, because you can start thinking that no practice is needed, no sadhana is needed, you can just stop your sadhana and just take yourself to be Consciousness and that's it. So it is also possible that King Janaka himself was very attached to his spiritual practices, his meditation, his identity. Maybe that was the only identity that was left and that needed to be chopped up as well in the final scheme of things. Empty, empty, empty. But in the meanwhile, follow what your Master is telling you. It doesn't have to be this Ananta, whoever.

Then: You pervade this universe and this universe exists in you. You are really pure Consciousness. Don't be small-minded. You are unconditioned, immutable, formless, of cool disposition, of unfathomable intelligence and unperturbed. Desire to be the... or desire Consciousness alone. Don't neglect that word, although the translation may not be perfect. The phrase 'cool disposition'—cool, it's not like 'Bro, I'm so cool.' It's not like that. It's just shanti, shanti, you know? Like Kabir Ji said, don't get angry, don't get irritated. Remain peaceful in your heart. That's really important. That's your true nature anyway. Know that that which has form to be unreal and the formless to be permanent. Through this spiritual instruction you will escape the possibility of rebirth. Just as the mirror exists within and without the image.

Although the translation may not be perfect, the phrase 'cool disposition'—it's not like, 'Bro, I'm so cool.' It's not like that. It's just Shanti, Shanti. You know, like I said, don't get angry, don't get irritated; remain peaceful in your heart. That's really important. That's your true nature anyway. Know that that which has form to be unreal and the formless to be permanent. Through this spiritual instruction, you will escape the possibility of rebirth. Just as the mirror exists within and without the image reflected in it, so the Supreme Self exists inside and outside this body. As the same all-pervading space is inside and outside a jar, so that eternal, all-pervasive Brahman exists in all things.

Where can we recognize this? All with the Nirguna reality. And so we switch out from the way of the mind to the way of the heart. We switch out from conceptual knowing to heart insight. We remain, we meditate upon the Atma, the Holy Spirit within, and we deepen in the insights about who we really are. We use the pointers of the sages, which our mind cannot understand, and we use them as instruments of revelation by offering them to the spirit within. And that which is revealed to us, we have faith in that. And we don't make it personal. We don't make it about ourselves or about our false self and hanker for any kind of labels like Enlightenment or freedom. Freedom from the false. We'll look at some of the other translations that you're suggesting as well. Last time we did another one; I'll open that again as well. Let's go to Georgie.

Hi, hello. Yeah, I just wanted to talk to you because there seems to be a great deal of difficulty coming all at once, and things are falling apart. I'm making a big effort to stay, and I've been praying a lot. It's just the physical reality—not the reality, but the physical world. The house and the car and work and money and relationships, all at once.

Is it in that order or the reverse order? Do you mean by priority?

Yes, yes.

Which one has priority?

I don't know. Usually, it's difficult for too many things to bother us at the same time, isn't it? Maximum maybe two or three. There seems to be a lot of concern about the financial situation.

Financial. Financial. Yeah, this is like an unprecedented situation, not just here but also in the country. So it's both combined. Yeah, I heard a bit about the country thing, but what is the worst-case scenario with the finances? What's happening? What's the worst-case scenario?

I don't know. I don't know if I'm thinking that way. I think I'm a little bit overwhelmed by everything that I need to sort out because...

Yeah, so suppose the worst case happens. You have food? Will you have clothing? Will you have a roof over your head?

I don't know.

You don't know about any of this?

I have a feeling that I will, but I don't know. I can't say that I know.

One good thing, I guess, is that you know you can just... you have a home in Bangalore.

Yeah, so they will kick me out after three months.

We'll find a way. No, we're not going to do that. Those jokes got us in trouble one time, so we're not going to do that.

Sorry, I couldn't hear you.

For jokes about 'we'll hide you' and all can get people in trouble. But you don't have to worry about these things. Don't have to.

I think, yeah, it's a mixture of worrying and being overwhelmed by everything that needs to be sorted. I see myself taking myself as a thing having to deal with everything that is happening and having to make decisions that I cannot make because it's not clear where to go. And so you said that you've been praying quite a lot. How much is that approximately? How much?

This past week, yeah?

Every morning and evening I'm sitting, and sometimes I sit during the day and I pray when I'm doing things. So all put together would be how much? I don't know. A lot.

How many hours?

I don't know. I don't know. Three hours? Two hours? I don't know. I'm sure it's not four hours like you. I'm not sitting four hours like you are, although I would like to.

Yeah, so the four hours thing has been going well here the last few days. But you know, today my count—how much today? My count is 0.0.

You're making up now with Ashtavakra.

No, no, no. That will have to be the way now. In the night, I probably won't sleep for a time. It has been good. I feel like the past few days, I felt like it's going to be very difficult because something kept happening in the family and all of that, but Grace just creates the time. At least it has done so far. Maybe I'm just becoming complacent about Grace creating the time today, and let's see how that goes. But it's been very good. It's been really good. And I feel like it's been beautiful to pray for so many of the children also who sent some messages that they were troubled. Prayer has been happening for them as well, and Grace is just taking care. Times can be difficult, but I don't have a better solution than to invoke God's presence, to seek His help, and to ask for His mercy, and to remain as empty of the false identification as possible. I feel like we have to keep doing that. It's really important. It's getting to a point where—and I'm sure I've said this before—but it becomes very difficult to take oneself to be something.

And I feel like I'm not dealing with anything as an object in the world. And I feel very tired because I feel like I'm making a big effort to know who I am in every moment.

Yeah. What is your most oppressive thought?

I guess worry. Worry about the future and also not knowing what to do work-wise. I see myself not being clear on where to go, because if I knew where to go, I would go. And you talked so much about just being comfortable with not knowing and waiting for God's guidance. I also wanted to ask you about that, because how do I know the difference between waiting for God's guidance and just being complacent, you know? And not doing anything about the situation.

If you're praying this much and you're not actively resisting doing anything, and you're open to being guided by God, then don't worry about complacency.

Okay. I'm really happy that these conversations get recorded, Father, because I usually need to listen like two or three times before I can hear everything.

That's fine, that's fine. Take your time. But it's very valuable that we do, because then when we do hear everything, it's very powerful guidance. If you're praying so much and you're not actively resisting work or action, and you're open to being guided on how to move and in which direction to go by God, then you're not being complacent at all. In the sense that you're just empty and you get inspired, or you get this intuitive sense without it being so clear that God is telling you this, but you have this just natural intuitive sense to move in a particular way. But sometimes you have like a mental block which prevents you from doing that, you see? Like a bias.

Exactly.

So, but if you're remaining empty, if you're asking God for guidance and you're praying, yeah, it's fine. Remember that one of the most important things we need on this path is patience.

Yes, that really sounds very... I'm sure it will continue to sink in, but it sank very beautifully after a few times of listening to that conversation. And it only comes from God, that patience. And we can invoke it from God. And it's just... somehow, it really is very important. By God's grace, I have a feeling that you won't be homeless or foodless. I don't feel that.

You are the third Satsang member to tell me this. I don't have to worry about things which I don't feel like will happen. Never. I remember there was a time where—and all of us have, it's not a big deal—but I remember I was fully broke one time and I had 18 rupees in my bank account with children and... oh, God never let that get to zero. And even if it had gotten to zero, He would have taken care in some way or the other.

Was that after you met Mooji Ji or before?

Before. Before.

Oh, you have faced this a few years, two, three years. Did you trust that it was going to be okay?

I don't know, actually. I sat and cried. I remember sitting and crying one time in 2006 or something like that where, you know, for the silliest reason. I don't know, I'm a bit embarrassed to share, so you don't have to follow for one...

No, it's okay.

It's coming now, so I'll share. As some of you know, actually, when I was younger, I was—and you know that I was stupider—so I was very attached to these executive ink pens, fountain pens. There is like Sheaffer and there's this brand. So I used to always carry one nice one like this in my pocket here. And the day I had 18 rupees in my bank account, this thought was troubling me: that now you can't even afford a pen, you know? So that day I remember I sat and cried. 'What have I come to? I can't even afford a pen,' and things like that. All nonsense. God was taking care beautifully even in that time. So don't have to worry.

I'm so... I'm so grateful for you and for the Satsang because I feel that I'm just grateful. I'm just very grateful that I have found beings that are so giving. I wanted to ask you, Father...

Yeah, all of my children, some of these things you just don't have to worry about. Because just like God has taken this Father of yours into His care, I just feel like everything will always be all right on a worldly front. It'll be fine for this man here. I feel like it has to be the same for his children as well. And I don't feel like there'll be a point where this one has food to eat and a roof to live under but he'll allow any of his children not to have. I don't have to worry.

I wanted to ask you something. Is it common to feel tired in the body when there's such a war going on inside?

Yes, yes, yes, it is. It is. And I notice the same thing. Like if you read some of the Psalms, you see King David many times saying, 'My bones are broken. My bones are broken.' So you keep wondering how his bones feel so broken all the time, and then you start to notice that it's because of this, you know, this like the spiritual warfare that goes on. Many times we do feel like that. All of us do.

Yeah, and it feels a little overwhelming.

Yeah, don't worry. As we go through these tough days with patience and courage, then times change beautifully by His grace. I'm happy to hear you're praying because it's very common in these times where we're worried about money or relationships and this and that, that we put God at the end and say, 'No, no, I need to deal with this stuff first.' And prayer can be...

I'm happy, in a way—and maybe you tell me if this is an interpretation, I'm sure—but I feel in a way that it's an answered prayer. Because I was talking to a Sangha member saying that I don't care about anything but God. Even if He forces me to, if He has to force me to stay with Him, then that's fine. And then this unfolding happened like right after.

That's a beautiful prayer to make. Like I shared about Lalleshwari's prayer, who was a great sage in her own right, but she said, 'Lord, if I only remember You when I'm suffering, please give me more suffering.' Such a difficult prayer to make. Such an amazing prayer to make. That 'If I see that I remember You only when I'm suffering, or remember You more when I'm suffering, so please give me more suffering so that I don't forget You. I'm always with You.' So beautiful. It takes true courage to sincerely make that prayer. Most important is to be with Him. Most important is to be with Him.

Sometimes when I'm moving and I'm praying, it's usually like an under-my-breath thing. It's not completely heartfelt. Like when I'm sitting, it's more like a playlist inside. It's not completely, completely... because you're focused on something else. It's not the same.

Ananda, Swami Ram, all of them have said that better than no prayer at all is this mechanical prayer, you see? Even St. Teresa of Avila, she said that. And she comes across very strong against vague prayer, vague prayer being that which is insincere.

Sometimes when I'm moving and I'm praying, it's usually like an under-my-mesh, that it's not completely heartfelt. Like when I'm sitting, it's more like a playlist inside. It's not completely, completely, because you're focused on something else. It's not the same.

Ananta, Swami Ram, all of them have said that better than no prayer at all is this mechanical prayer, you see. Even St. Teresa of Avila, she said that. And she comes across very strong against vain prayer. Vain prayer being that which is insincere, not meaning the words, not praying in humility, just repeating words mechanically. So she comes across quite strong against that, but something I read from her saying that even vain prayer is prayer; it is not nothing. Even vain prayer is prayer. V-A-I-N. So which means insincere, without humility, without meaning the words, which is what you mean, isn't it? That you're just saying the words but you don't really mean them, you're not asking God for help really, you're just repeating the word. But even she said that even that prayer, she said, is not nothing. It is better than nothing, you see. So all the sages are in sync as far as that is concerned, that the more sincere the prayer, the more we mean it as we pray, the more humble we are as we pray, the better it is. But compared to not praying at all, even just the mechanical prayer is prayer.

Yeah, it seems like because the focus is not fully on that, the heart cannot be completely open to the prayer when I'm moving. That's when I'm sitting. That's what these three hours that you said are like this, or are they focused?

No, in the morning I sit for at least an hour and usually in the evening, or sometimes during the day also I sit. Clarify what I mean by focused prayer means that during that time our intention is to only pray. Our intention is to only pray. Not the outcome; the outcome we can never control. But as long as our intention is just that, that's all that we can do. Full-hearted intention just to be with God, and then we have to surrender the rest to Him because really the outcome of being in His presence, of feeling His love, His light, His guidance, His will, all of that is up to His grace.

And this word patience that you said is so important, Father. It's so... and you don't have to go anywhere. There's nowhere to go because the altar is within our heart. His presence, His light is within our heart. The true temple, the true church, the true mosque, the true gurdwara is within ourselves. I don't know if we can ever express how grateful we are to you, Father. I don't think that any of us can. I love you so much.

Bless you, bless you. Thank you. Let's sing the Ananta Chalisa.

So that I can so much resonate what Georgie was saying and yeah, I don't... yeah, just hold me in your heart please.

With you. All my love, all my blessings, all this.