Who Is Aware of This Experience, if There Is No Experiencer? - 19 July 2016

Um, okay, let me even bring it down further for you. Because another popular notion these days is that all there is is this, what is happening phenomenally now. So is this your experience, that all there is here is that phenomenally? Or do you also find the presence of something which is prior to all of these experiences? No, you find that the only thing that is here is the sound of the fan, the sound of this voice? That's all that is here? There is no subject to these objects?

No, there is no experiencer of these. I mean, it's... that is also a concept because these things come and go.

So, not using any concept, just when we're checking now. You're hearing this voice?

Yes.

Is there an experiencer of this voice?

No.

Is there a speaker of the word?

No, there is the sound. No, but I mean, it's... yeah, the experience of the sound is there, yeah.

There is no experiencer? You are saying there is no... I mean, there is no reason to believe that?

And don't believe anything, just trying best, huh?

The way to do the inquiry is not to go to any belief, huh? It is to check what is happening here. So these sounds are here, this mouth is making some sounds. Is there an experiencer of these sounds?

No.

Is there one who knows that there is no experiencer?

They said no.

So who is that one that knows that there is no experiencer?

No, yeah. Is there... I don't see why there should be somebody who knows there is no experience.

Hi. There are only two ways to report on something, hmm. The first way is that we have a concept of something and we report from there. 'I read that the world is round, that's why I say the world is round,' you see? The second is to say that 'This is what I see. I saw that the Sun comes from the east, so I report that the Sun comes from the east.' So when you are saying 'no,' is that coming from the concept that there should not be, or from a direct experience that there isn't any?

Um, how can I tell this? By taking like this, and I'm very happy or at least open to this checking, huh.

So as this openness is there, then the recognition, the checking about who we are, the enquiry—what one said 'Who am I'—will become easier and easier and clearer and clearer. So already we say that you say that there is no experiencer, there is just the sounds of the experience of the sounds. There is no experiencer. Then my next question was: who is aware of this? Either it's a fact or it's a notion. It's an experience that there is no experiencer, ha, exactly, huh. So who's aware of this experience?

No one. I mean, the experience is there, I can't find an experiencer.

And this is also an experience, the not finding of an experiencer?

Yes, yes.

Now, you know all of this. You say that this is an experience, and yet you cannot find an experiencer. What does that mean? You cannot find the phenomenal existence of such an experiencer, yeah. And yet, that there is awareness of this—that you are aware of this—cannot be denied, isn't it? There is a... sorry, hi there. You are aware of it directly. Are you making it up? And you're not making it up, therefore you must be aware of it. Is there a third option?

Maybe I'm seeing there is experience. So now you're asking me if I'm aware of that experience?

Yes, otherwise how would you report it?

How would I know that I am aware of that experience? I say the experience is there.

Yes, we all are, see? And I'm saying, I'm offering to help you with this to say that there are only two ways in which we can say something. One is that we learnt it conceptually and therefore we can report it, like I said, 'the world is round.' Or it is our living experience; it's a direct awareness of this fact. So which one is it in this case? Alright, the third option you can tell me.

I mean, the experience is there, that there is... I can't find any experiencer.

And who is aware of this is the question. Once it's already... is very good. So when you see it in 'no one,' there is no awareness of it? Or it's a bit fuzzy right now as to what's what?

What is the way? The thing is that I can offer hypotheses, but that is of no interest.

Keep that aside, huh. So, ah, so I could say that... I mean, what is happening now? What is happening now is you said very beautifully that 'I can sense the experience of something but this experiencer I cannot find.' Therefore, just a simple question was: who is aware of even this experience? But that there is... who is aware of the experience but no experiencer?

I mean, again, I feel this is also an experience which is just being reported, that there is no experiencer.

And who is aware of it? One thing is certain, that it's not... it's not Amber that is telling you this is what is being experienced. It is not Rahagu saying this is what is being experienced. There's something more direct in this experience. So who's... who is aware of this experience? Does this question resonate for you? This question resonates for you? It's going to make all of this very simple, actually. It's gonna make all of this very simple because mostly the prolongation of the seeming spiritual journey is for two reasons. One is that the inquiry itself does not resonate, and the second is that even after the recognition of who we are, we insist on believing that which we are not. So forget about the second part now, please. The inquiry is resonating?

Yes. I mean, what I mean is that... okay, can you repeat the question that I'm asking?

Who is aware of there not being an experiencer? Which I am saying again, that this is an experience, and I have no means of again... I mean, so nobody here is going to agree that... please, sorry. On Facebook, a lot of Advaita police—you post a simple message, 'I put my head at my Master's feet,' and nobody there. 'What master? What feet? We're all Advaita, you know, we all just one, none of this ever happened anyway.' So, so nobody's going to do that here. So you can say 'I,' you can say whatever you want. So who is to test that there is no experiencer?

So there is no test.

The question is: who is aware that there is no experiencer? Because you said that there is experience but no experiencer, and I said then either this was learnt or understood conceptually, or it is a direct experience. Which one is it?

How do I tell the difference?

One is if it's just coming as a concept. Yeah, I even gave the example, isn't it? Is the world round or flat? If the question was there, how would you say? Most of us would say 'round.' Why? Because we heard it from credible sources, we've learned it from credible sources, yeah. So that is conceptual, right? Right there is a concept, huh. Now if I say that, what color shirt are you wearing? Yeah, just check. So you see it and you report from there. Now besides this conceptual knowing and the direct checking, is there a third way to report on something? This is very important for all of us because many times even in spirituality, we are just reporting from secondhand knowledge, this from the books or pirating our teachers. We must learn to now go with what is direct. Because if the truth is the truth, then the truth must be here. If the Self is the Self, then the Self will not be found in the future; it must be recognized now. The self-realization, the realization of the Self, must be only in the now.

I think it is sort of a concept, but it was a concept based on experiences before where I felt that, you know, 'this is not allowed, this can't be me' and all that. And then I felt that, you know, 'this is allowed' and you know, and gradually it is what I can't be getting challenged gradually. And then after, when it did become concept, there is some assurance, and whenever that is challenged again, it will be challenged.

So just for a little while, hmm—this will not last very long, depends on your definition of long, actually, good—but just for a little while, forget about all that happened in the past, all the reasons for why we come to certain conclusions, what the conclusions were. Just keep them aside for some time. Really, the question is very simple. You're hearing a sound of this voice. You say that it is an experience, but the experiencer I cannot find. So this itself, the answer is music to my ears. So now the simple question after that was: who is aware that there is an experience that there is no experiencer? And this requires a fresh way of looking because thinking about it will not help, and mind cannot go there, isn't it? You see this already. So you must, for this question, we have to rely on what is directly experienced here, although the word 'experience' is not the right one, but just you have to use some word, is it?

So just like I asked him, if not using it now, it's a simpler, simple question. If I ask a child, 'Are you aware now?' As long as the word 'aware' is understood by him, he'll say 'yes.' They're every now, actually. Though this inquiry now, mind will give you all kinds of resistance. There is a 'but,' but it is going... 'I'm not really understanding anymore' or it can say anything, hmm, because it gets frustrated with this question.

I mean, I'm not frustrated exactly, it's just that I ring an alarm.

Okay. If you starting to get frustrated, that's... it's just that I can't give an answer with confidence. Any answer. I can't say that, you know, I'm sure that there is no experiencer or there is someone aware that there is no experiencer, nor can I say that, you know, there is... what is the other thing? There is nobody experiencing that there is no experiencer.

Earlier, yes, because this was your report, isn't it? That there is no experiencer, there's just this experience. And on the basis of that, I asked this question: so who is aware of this? Now this question will seem very troublesome to the mind, but actually it is very natural to ask. So with that, if there is openness, let that question marinate for some time and we can come back to you.