Where Does Thought Come From? -25th Nov. 2014

This is so interesting. Wow, this is so interesting. Yeah, what about the others? How does it appear?

I don't want to stay the same as Amba described. They appear, they seem... it's almost like a shooting star, but they feel like they sort of just go out like that and then they fade.

Interesting. I've never seen anyone contemplate this before. Let's find out more. Claire, how do they appear? Not sure if you're saying something, but we can't hear you. Now, while we wait for Claire, let's read what Amaya said. Amaya said, 'Left to right for me.' Left to right. This is used to say, 'Follow it back like a cat at the mouse hole sends the mouse back in here.' This is very good. And you must have seen that when you're waiting for them to come, it seems like there are no thoughts. Claire says, 'I can't unmute.' Maybe you can type and tell us. Do they appear as anything? It's like an energy more than appearing as something or from somewhere.

Oh, it's like a feeling, isn't it? And it doesn't appear to be in the head area or anything.

No? So it's not so clear. That's it, I don't know. Interesting. Sorry, we were just contemplating how do thoughts appear.

Oh, oh, sorry. Hi. I'm requesting for me, I think also it seems like from left to right and it goes out that way. So it's my first time, I'm trying to work out how this works.

It's good, it's good. It's so lovely to see you here. Very good. We have three now at my camp, left to right. Two in the flashing camp; they flash up and they bubble up like this. Somewhat similar to Shanti saying it's more like a feeling. Let's hear what Jeremy has to say.

Namaste, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes, my dear. Very clear.

Um, they also come left to right but kind of fade in, fade out. Yes, kind of a bit of a combination of the two, but I always have that... there's also that left to right feeling here. I don't know about her.

Let's see if Nick is able to speak.

Hello, hello, hello my dear. Oh, my love it, yes. For me, I kind of see them coming in almost as if they were synaptic, you know, impulses. You know, I mean we know that from science there, so there seems to be a correlation there. But definitely they come from... they appear in nothingness. I can see that quite clearly. And they disappear back into that same space, which makes them, you know, very fictitious in a way. You can see if it comes from nothing, goes back to nothing, then it's not real. It's something absolutely, you know, transient. Yes, you know, and that became very clear for me, you know.

Very good. Yeah, this is the point of this. The point is not really to do a survey of the appearance of thought and how it appears, but just to see that even the way it appears to all of us seems to be a little different. And how can we put any trust in this transient appearance? Very good. So Nick said that they appear like some synaptic neurons are firing or something empty.

Yeah, and Ananta, yes. Um, it was funny because yesterday a friend of mine was interrogating me about what I wanted to do with my life, and I had to give him a very, very difficult to explain answer. And he said, 'But you don't want...' you know, 'I want...' He said, 'I want to travel, I want to do this, I'm working for that,' and everything was future-oriented. And I said, 'No, no, I'm totally satisfied with being in the space right now.' He looked at me in a very strange way and said, 'But that's just like disappearing.' I said, 'Yeah, well sort of,' you know. But it was funny to... as I was trying to explain something that you just can't explain, you know, that someone had to go through all the excitement and all the disillusion and everything to come to a point where they can appreciate that just to be, just to be is enough, you know.

And the funny thing is, you need to ask him and ask him, 'So why do you want to travel?' Say, 'So that I have all these differences and then I'll be happy.' And then you say, 'But I'm happy already. I'm already here completely.' Exactly, exactly. Do you like that? All these experiences that are being chased are to... the mind is saying that they'll bring him to the point where he feels satisfied, satisfied of all the experiencing. And you are saying that you're already satisfied in the moment. It looks to them like we're perishing away because we've lost all the ambition, we've lost all the drive and the kick, you know. And it's so sweet to be in this space here, you know, with you all. And it's absolutely fathomless. Beautiful, beautiful. So beautiful to have you as well. Is that from your system?

I'll see if I can show you very quickly. Let me just show you. The broadcast might be a bit... but just let me show you briefly where I am. Can you see? Yes, yeah, that's the forest. And here's a small little... it's a small little inn that belongs to friends. It belongs to friends of mine and it's a tropical paradise here. And I'm very lucky to be living here at the moment.

Very nice. It looks lovely. Very, very supportive of the inner journey until such time that a big New York or London or Rome calls me for service. This is very good. Let's go to Prima and ask her what her appearance of thought was. Now, can you show us? Was it like this? Was it like that? Both ways? Nicely, really? Wow, I've never looked at this like this. I've actually never looked at this. I always presumed that it would be the same for everyone.

Father, can I share one more observation? It also just feels like the subtle energy or tension in my forehead. And when I'm just not going with the thoughts, at first it just feels like this energy in my forehead and then the energy just dissipates. So it's just... it feels like it's coming from here and going out. Thank you so much.

Very good. I wonder if someone has read something about this. Lisal, what was your experience? I know you were moderating, but still, do you want to share something?

Do you know what happened? I missed the whole thing because I fell out of the Hangout and I was desperately trying to get back in. And so I missed the exercise, but I had this... no thinking, absolutely no thinking. And now I was trying desperately to get in and I was sending messages and I just had a very like a huge wave of anxiety in the body, but no thoughts.

Well, we lost you again. Oh, I missed a lot of the chat. They come from emptiness, the Self, and return back. They're guests. Atma says, 'I was not able to locate from where or how they appear.' Zoe said, 'They appear around the area of my forehead. They disappear, but they just appear from nowhere.' Jenny said, 'All experience in the head is no idea where they come.' Claire says, 'It's so sweet to be here with all of you.' We love the sweetness of Claire. And Isabella said, 'Indeed journey, bit love and hug to everyone.' Same, same thing. This is very good because we see that we know so little about these thoughts. We don't even know how they appear, where they come from, where they go, and yet we seem to have for such a long time followed this teacher, this teacher of thoughts, this teacher of mind, this teacher which is teaching us separation, that is teaching us individuality, which is being the ego. I certainly enjoyed this experiment very much. I'm not sure about all of you.

Something very nice. Father, can I share some?

Yes, my dear, of course.

I just wanted to say that in the last few days lots of like doubt has been arising and so like just kind of doubtful talk. And what I'm really grateful for because somehow I'm able to look at the doubt and question it in a much more clearer way than I ever have been able to before. And for a long time there was no like doubt arriving, but it was very great. So it comes in like different ways, you know, with like a different story. So even sometimes the doubt for some time was about you. It's like, 'No, he's not... he thinks he's like completely free, but he's not really.' I didn't believe the thoughts, but it's very... I'm very grateful to see them. But a very good story that happened here last night was that I was watching satsang with you and there was another video in YouTube in the corner and it was someone else and they were speaking about like all the same kind of things, you know. And something made me click on this person and I'd seen her before and I just kind of clicked and I wasn't attracted. But then I was watching her again last night and I had all these kind of thoughts, you know, like, 'She doesn't know what she's talking about really, they're all just words.' But I was really like seeing this and seeing like, 'Is this just like doubt about myself? You know, is this doubt about my own seeing?' And then like question, 'Well, what could I really be doubting?' you know. But then I was looking at this girl and watching all this at the same time and it was just very... it was very kind of healing because I kind of just came like, it doesn't matter if she... what she sees, you know. Like it doesn't matter where she's standing from or where she's speaking from, it only matters where like what I am seeing. And I just kind of felt like then I just ended up like loving her and it just... it was just very good. And I kind of like... I watched her for like maybe like 20 minutes, so I wasn't really watching her, I was watching myself but I was using her. And it was just like... I don't know if those words really can convey, but it was just like a really good exercise for looking at my own doubt and questioning and questioning who could even doubt anyway and looking at even the one who is doubting at the same time. And it was all just like disappear because I could like look at it like this. So I'm very grateful for doubt even, and I welcome doubt to come again all the time if it...

Very good. It's very good. So we say, you know, in the beginning I say that you must doubt completely. In the beginning of a relationship with the Master, just feel free to completely...

It was a good exercise for looking at my own doubt and questioning, and questioning who could even do anyway, and looking at even the one who is doing at the same time. And it was all just like disappear because I could like look at it like this. So I'm very grateful for doubt even, and I welcome doubt to come again all the time if it—

Very good. It's very good. So we say, you know, in the beginning I say that you must doubt completely. In the beginning of a relationship with the Master, just feel free to completely doubt. It might sound a little crazy till I explain it. So you doubt completely and then you say, 'Okay, let me try what he's saying. Let me experience what he's saying.' So he's saying that don't believe your next thought, so let me just see if this works. And you follow the pointing and then you find some peace will come. And this builds trust, you see? When you follow the pointings and then you find some experience of your true nature, then the development of trust will happen. And then you feel that, 'Okay, this makes sense.' You say, 'Okay, what is the next one?' You try that. You say that, 'Yes, this gives more space. It's so much more clarity. This helps.' So the trust will deepen completely in this way.

And then what happens is that there seems to be a time where there's no doubt. It all seems completely clear. When the relationship is strong, then it seems completely clear. But then sometimes the mind is lurking in the background just waiting to come up as doubt again. And we'll say that, 'Oh, you're following Ananta. Does he really know his stuff? You know, maybe Mooji made a mistake by asking him or something like that.' Or, 'Maybe I'm just born—I just got sent to the wrong era of time. You know, I should have been born when Bhagwan was there. He would take good care.' These kind of doubts I know can come up. But this is good because we are already in a relationship. And then you observe the doubt that comes once you're already in a relationship are like this.

So if I say, 'I hate you,' if I say, 'I hate you,' you will not doubt it. You say, 'He said he hates me. He hates me.' But if I say, 'I love you,' then the doubt will come. 'Does he really love me or is he just saying? Oh, he says that to everybody.' So it will be like that. So this is doubt. So doubt is different in the beginning when you're doing your basic due diligence about whether to be with someone or not, and then it is a different variety when you're in a relationship, beta. So it feels that once you're in a relationship, then this doubt can come subtly and say, 'Are you sure you're with the right one?' We are faced with something negative, so I say something bad about you or I say that I hate you, then there is no doubt. He is. And even when you're in the midst of it, you see, you know you're in the midst of it. You can come and say, 'I don't believe you.' I don't mind that conversation at all. You can even come and say, 'Are you really free?' You have this—I'm not scared of this kind of conversation. In fact, it'd be very nice. It would be full of honesty and integrity. So no trouble with doubt.

Yeah, but you feel that with one these kind of hangout issues would have come up as well, no? See, you're born in the wrong generation now. I was born perfect time. I'm very, very, very, very, very grateful for you. Thank you.

I see missiles still working away. So thoughts—these thoughts which seem to have these different forms of appearances, different ways in which they seem to appear to all of us—they seem to have run our life for so long because of our belief in them. But now with all of these experimentations and contemplations, I don't feel that any of you can now be deluded with them for too long. Just momentarily some things can come and they can go. Which thought can get you now?

Father, can I share something? Yes, yes. Um, when all these kind of like different thoughts are going, really it's a doubt. I had this thought that said, um, it says, 'My mind is still full of nonsense. How is my mind still full of nonsense?' And then kind of at the same time I was like, 'Well, like mind is nonsense.' So it's like, it's not like I had—maybe there was like a kind of a subtle idea that because my mind is—our mind is like not common so much that it's like my mind is becoming like clean or clear or something. But it's not really like that because mind is just mind and it's—it's nonsense.

So it's very good. Like you see that, that's what we said in the last satsang also, that many, many, many sadhus and yogis are trying to purify their mind, you see? They're trying to change their mind and it just doesn't work. You can sit and meditate for years in a cave and it can seem like the mind has changed now, and the minute you step out of your cave and you come to a auto rickshaw to go to your ashram and the auto refuses to take you, the mind comes to attack him immediately. It doesn't help. You cannot change the mind because the mind only knows attack and defense, which is the same thing. So no effort required to change the mind. It can only seem like some effort required to drop a belief in the mind. And these thoughts will also come saying that, 'You are free now. How can you have these kind of thoughts? How can you think this?' So the leopard will not change its spots. It will always be. I see all of you, I just see so much emptiness. Completely empty of all these beliefs and concepts. It's so beautiful, this emptiness. Usually in the world, if you were to go and say that, 'When I see you, I see only emptiness,' there will be an insult. Only in satsang will you understand this. Can you imagine walking up to someone who had not been in satsang and look into their eyes and, 'All I see is emptiness'? They'll be so insulted.

Thank you, Father. Um, I still get nervous, so I—my heart's racing right now. Um, but I wanted to come on just to expose this. Um, it's just lately I can see that there are no problems. There's—there's nothing that I can say is a problem. And there's a sense of just um, relaxing into this emptiness and there's more inner space than I've ever known, more of a sense of neutrality. But what I wanted to expose is there can still be this—it's not that a lot of the things that used to grab me in the past that I would give my belief to, that doesn't really come anymore. Um, like if there's—for example, I had a lot of—when I'm—as I've been telling clients that I'm moving, a lot of the clients that I do have left are um, just they're all canceling all their future sessions. So in the past that would have created a lot of panic and it would have gotten belief. So those thoughts aren't getting belief anymore, which is just beautiful. But it's just these very subtle thoughts sometimes during the day that I'm not aware of it when it's happening. And it's just—they're very, very subtle, but it's still somehow this belief in a sense of a doer and doership, yes, that I don't even always recognize when it's happening. It could just be like a thought about what I'm going to do now or these sort of thoughts. And it's just creates still this sense of separation when they're believed in, and then I see them. But sometimes they're not always seen and I just felt to—I just wanted to surrender that and expose that here with you.

This is very good and it's a very important point because also don't have this expectation that every moment will be full awareness and there will be no doership that ever comes. It's very natural for this subtle sense of doership to come time and again. It will come and it will go. Just let it come in, completely fine. It's just that all of these forces of doership, separation, individuality, egoism will lose the ability to make you suffer. So the sensitivity has become so strong now that little bit of suffering will come and you'll immediately question, 'What am I believing?' This has happened for all of you. Little bit suffering come, a little bit something like that comes, the feeling, and you say, 'What am I believing?' And very quickly that belief is dropped and it's all clear again. You don't have to worry about making it complete or fully, fully free or anything like that.

Thank you. Thank you, Father. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes. Um, I just have to expose something that um, I'm—I can see that I have a—there's a fear here of speaking to you directly. It's not there, yeah. Um, okay, so what do I talk about? Nervousness comes when you feel like you're up here, yes. Is this—yeah, this fear of being in direct contact with you. Um, I just saw before that it's a fear of totally losing control, that I'll start crying and that's a bad thing. Well, that's all I do. I just cried whenever I've been in contact with you. So I'm—I'm kind of tired of that. Well, my mind, I guess, it's tired of that. In fact, I'm realizing it's not that it's bad. It's not that bad. The heart is beating very bad. No, my heart is beating fast, but in fact it's okay. I don't feel like crying. That's the first time. Yeah, really good. Yeah. Um, okay, so I still have nothing to say. I don't know what to say, but at least I said something. Um, well, my heart is still pounding very fast, but uh, it seems to be okay. Yeah, it's—I—I can't explain. Yeah, it's just this thing of control, I think. The losing control and the fact that I feel that you can—you, you, you feel you know everything and I can't hide, you know, in front of you.

So now just let go of all control, okay? And don't be concerned about what might happen. Okay, here the coming tears are coming. It's okay. All right. If tears come, let them come. Don't resist anything at all. Oh, okay. So satsang is the place where you're completely free. You don't have to be proper. Don't have to be proper here at all. Don't resist anything. It will come and go. It can seem like this is tiring. What happens to us in satsang, it seems like this is tiring. Actually, what is tiring is to keep up the personality. It falls, persona off being prim and proper. Okay, here is being completely natural. God knows what He's doing. Just hand over all power to Consciousness. Being is running your life. Ah, hmm. Open and know that the Satguru in the heart is taking care of everything. And also you're completely right when you say that I know everything. And what is the meaning of that, I know everything? It means that I know that whatever you can think about yourself is not true, and I know that we are one.

It's like once said that when he's looking around in the room, looking around in the room, sometimes he notices that some people are going like this. So he asked one of them once, 'Why do you do this?' He said, 'Because if you look into my eyes, you will see what I am and who I am.' And he was coming from this place of wanting to hide his thoughts about guilt or doubt or something like that. Who cannot see any of this? All I see is my own Self. This resist—if you don't resist this, this is what you—you will see in yourself as well. The pure Being, the pure seeing. Okay? And openness meets the presence of the Satguru when it is magic. Magic looks like this. Doesn't have to look very exuberant or anything. It could be full of tears. Ah, are you laughing or crying?

Both. But I'm not—I'm not crying because I'm sad.

Yes, I know that. You know, that's why I laugh in response. And somebody sees us outside, they'll wonder, 'Look at this poor lady, she's crying, and this man is sitting there laughing.'

Yeah, and I'm actually at work, so if any—anybody comes... Ah, but you know, I've been—since the first time that I really um, connected with you, it's—I didn't for about five months, I—I didn't—it was non-stop crying. It was non-stop. And now then it slowed down a bit, but it's—it's still a bit there, but it's—it's better now. All of this can get released.

So thank you, Father. I love you, my dear. I love you so much. Good. I had to rush for a 5:30 meeting, so I'm already late. Thank you all so much. Jai. So I need to rush off, but maybe Lisel can still close with her beautiful shlokas and I'll see you all tomorrow. Thank you, Father. Okay, I'll close my—be happy and free. Thank you, Lisel. Thank you, beloveds. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, darlings. Oh, sweet.