What Is It That You Have Always Been? - 10th May 2016

And what value would it be if it is somewhere else anyway? If it is not here all our life, if it has not been, then what's the point? One day if you discover it lying on the road like a diamond, you'd ask: 'Self, where were you all this time that I needed you?' This is the magic show of the mind. It gives us these ideas: 'When you find yourself, then you will only have bliss.' It's like you find this genie's magic lamp. First, if it cannot be here now, then there is no point to it. Because if it is something which comes and goes, there's no point to it and this is just more suffering. I feel happy when it comes, and when it goes, then I will suffer. So if you're done with the finding, with the going, all our stories about freedom, then we see it's just here all the time. I've always been that. For what is it that you have always been irrespective of the state—waking state, sleep state, dream state? You say 'my sleep,' 'my dream,' 'my waking.' Who is it? Is it possible to find this 'I'?

I have a question with two question marks. I have not been taking questions, but I'll take this one with two question marks; it must be urgent. The question is: 'Father, I'm fed up of this play. What can I do to come out of it quickly?' The truth is that you are never truly in the play. You are that which is aware of even this play. Which part of you? What does the body want? Nothing at all. If the body could speak, maybe it would say to the mind: 'Please leave me alone, always picking on me.' So which part of us is in the play? The body is here. The body doesn't want anything. It's not saying anything. It's not complaining. Sometimes some pain comes, so the body could speak this. It could say: 'Why are you blaming me for not finding freedom?'

Yes, of course, there is nothing which is completely insentient. All is made up of sentience itself. Do not say anything is completely insentient. If the entire dream is made up of Consciousness, then what is sentient and what is insentient? The body looked at in this isolated way, the body... the problem is 'I am the body.' What is it saying? 'I want that Levi's jeans and, you know, a Marvel T-shirt or something.' Is it saying that?

Father, sorry, you are muted. Father? No, it's convenient now because I put you on the spot. So, can you say this with the confidence that the thirst which arises in the body and the movement which happens, it is because of the mind? It wants water to thirst.

I never said this. I said that that becoming a desire or an aversion is from the mind. I've said at least—how long have you been here? For how many years now? About one year. In the year, I would have said at least a hundred times that it is very natural for these urges to arise in the body and they are all a play of Consciousness. So just because some sensation is experienced as if it is the body, does it make it a desire or an aversion? And not just hunger and lust and these things, but also thoughts come about these things.

So like, it's completely illogical when you said that all that wants belongs to the mind and body does not want anything. For example, let's take the basic example like food, clothing, and shelter. These are the things... I don't think that hunger is an urge which comes... okay, granted. Then okay, so we can take the example of certain life forms in which the mind is not that much developed, in which the thought activities are not dominant and their intelligence is at the very lower level, like the insects. Still, they go for food, they go for... so the urge which comes up like hunger, and the urge will also... the action will also come in response to that. But it does not become a desire or an aversion. Do you feel it completely comfortable to say that this hunger was not a want of this body?

The hunger is a sensation which is felt in the body, yes. And why I can't call it a need? Because a 'need,' as we have defined it—you can call it whatever you like—but when I define the term 'need,' it is like a desire or an aversion, which means it is a thought which is believed in, you see. So the urge can be there, just like many times I've said that anger can be there, but to make resentment out of it, you need thoughts, you see. Anger can be there, but to make guilt out of it, or remorse out of it, or to make pride out of it, you need thoughts. So when I'm talking about needs or desires and aversions, I'm talking about this: where an urge comes and the mind interprets it as something. What are you really objecting to?

I just... like the root of all objection is like, you clearly defy the basics of our understanding of our logical reasoning and how we perceive and interpret the world. And like, no one objects, everyone just accepts it as it is, like some ultimate truth. Means if we are discovering a truth, then okay...

No, it's good we have it out today. It's been a long time coming, I think. What is it you feel? That I'm just preaching? That's what you're saying? No? That I just say whatever and then everybody accepts it as some ultimate truth? But I'm not going to do it. So let's not do it. I don't want anyone to do that. I'm just saying that when we are going through the process of inquiry and when we are questioning the reality and the truth of this existence, of our own existence, then why not let's be honest with whatever we understand? For example, when you say that this body does not want anything and it is the mind which creates these wantings, these needings, all of these things, it is a mind want. But in the one year that you've been here, have I not elaborated on this point? It's not clear to you? You've not got the differentiation when I've said 'Grade A,' which is natural urges—anger, fear, all these can come—which is very naturally appearing, but when it becomes something like a desire or aversion or guilt, remorse, or regret, then it is mixed with mind? This is not clear?

It's clear. Then what is it really about? Is it just a habit? I'm sorry, just... maybe we must look at it because if it is just like this, and then you say all kinds of things which I don't even know whether you realize or not, like you're just speaking as if you're speaking the ultimate truth and everybody's listening. I've never taken that perspective. The ultimate truth can never be spoken.

Is there some pent-up resentment against me or what? Father, we cannot see and hear you... When the first few days I saw with Guruji and someone came and asked a question and he said, 'Have you been hearing anything I've said?' Sometimes I feel like that. The question is, especially when you back it up then with this thing, like you just... it's just completely illogical and everyone else is just sitting here quietly listening as if you're speaking the ultimate truths, but I'm not going to do that. Have I ever been closed to any questions, except the last week maybe? What I mean by desire or aversion or want, it is just something which wants to prove some point, and I'm not sure what the point is. So that's why I was asking you: What is the point? Because, you know, let's look at this together one day. At least for me, when you speak, it's an invitation to look.