The Witnessing is already Present - 20th April 2016

For that, I was doing it like today, just now.

Let's do it together. In reality, tell me how and where you're getting stuck. Just allow all thoughts to come and go. Don't serve them tea. And then allow your attention also to move about.

Actually, when I am here to do it with you, I don't get any thoughts. That's why I'm kind of thoughtless completely. Even if I am trying to get some thoughts, it looks like I'm trying.

Also very natural. When we allow, in fact, welcome our thoughts and invite our thoughts in, then it seems like thought activity reduces. When we say, 'Okay, Mr. Mind, please bring it on. What do you have?' then you find that it runs out of all that strong energy.

Yes, so it's kind of like when I'm more alert, like I'm trying something, it's kind of like snap. If I just—I'm tired that I don't see any thoughts. It's kind of like when I'm trying to let's see and kind of make aware, then it will come. But now it's not happening that way.

For now, the good news is that it's always about the right now. It is not about what happened in the past or what is going to happen in the future. Truth is always now. You are not in the past, not in the future, but in the now you always see. That's what I've been saying recently, that now is my best friend. But what happens is that what you recognize around yourself right now, you also see that this cannot change. So it's not some sort of trick where we get you into satsang and in satsang we do some magic and every thought activity, everything reduces, so it feels like you are free, and then the minute you leave it, then everything is gone. It can feel like that because the energetic support is going. But actually, what you recognize about yourself now, you also recognize that this is true irrespective of what layers of thoughts come and what layers of emotions come. At the core, at the center, this is always true, what you are finding out about yourself.

So let's use the now to come to the recognition of who you are, and then you will find that belief is not going to the thoughts as much as it was earlier. Belief means that there is a possibility that what the thoughts could be saying is true. If there was no possibility at all, then you would not believe. If I were to say you are levitating five feet above the ground right now, you would not believe it because you know there is no possibility of that. So same way, as you see that you are formless, you are the formless one, then all this thought which is talking to you as if you were a person will start sounding more and more alien to you, and at best you will laugh at them.

So Father, like what I see—earlier I used to identify with each and every or whatever it is going in my head, like sadness, happiness, whatever. But now it's kind of like if I see some images or if I see some voices of some other stuff, I usually can recognize, like I can easily discard them. But then it is a voice of like my voice, pretending to be—it's like very subtle. It's kind of like always with me. It says like it's my guide. It's like me myself talking with myself, like self-talking. So I usually get—I mean, I usually get too much liquid at that part, which is like my guide.

Yes, the voice of the mind has pretended to be our teacher for a very long time. This is what humanity is relying on in this world as the guide for guidance as to how to run a life. But this is not the true voice. This is not the intuitive voice. The voice of the mind is always selfish: 'For me, how do I get freedom? How do I become a better person? How do I do the practice?' You see? In a spiritual sense, who is the 'I' being referred to as you? Where is the 'I' that needs freedom? Where is the 'I' that needs to not identify also?

Yes, because I was watching with a friend about that 'I' and I was contemplating on myself and I found it like, Father, I cannot believe it. Like I found myself like everything is just happening by itself, like my breathing, like my heartbeat, like my personality. Though I didn't find that one because it's kind of like building blocks together and making a person. It's actually—it's nothing. There is a kind of like a different person like building it, like doing everything, but it's like I felt like as if I am joining parts and parts together and there is no such a thing. So as I'm supposed to reveal something, I could not find myself. Then I felt like I'm headless and I'm just walking like something else. I could not—even if I was driving, I was walking and I was feeling like if I'm walking somewhere, as if that part—like the body is—I can't anymore identify myself with the body anymore. But something just is inside the head, there's like the eyeballs, that's like pretending my voice, like 'Oh, you should not,' or 'How come you would let go this thing? You should not do.' I really get so much hypnotized. Like if I describe this one, then there is my self that is onion and lost completely. Where is it?

I'm not my body. Even this, that 'If I lose my mind then I will lose myself' is also the thought from the mind itself. Because you see, you yourself say no thought is coming but you are still here. So you haven't lost your self. Just by losing of thoughts is not the losing of the self. It is the mind which tries to create this fear in you, you see? So what has happened is that we are used to relying on this one feature inside our head seemingly. When we come to satsang, for many of us it seems like, 'No, the voice in my head is not the true teacher. It is the voice which I am hearing now with intuitive presence, the voice of my own heart. This must be my true teacher.' And for a while it seems like there is a tussle between the two teachers and anyone can win, you see? So it can be that someone has been in satsang for a long time and you can hear this voice and it seems like this is the truth pointing to freedom, and then suddenly the mind can come up with a new trick, you see? And it then takes you away.

This is a beautiful Mahabharata, actually. This is what the story is based on, you see? You get to hear the voice of the truth in satsang, and yet the mind has very ancient fears, doubts, the idea that 'I know something now but I still don't know it,' 'I'm almost there.' These ideas are the voice of this false teacher, which is the voice of the ego. Yes, Father, big devotee sometimes, and then the one who are jnanis because devotees then they have only one voice speaking. They don't care about the other one. The Master's voice is all that matters. So they have an easier time sometimes. It is the ones who are inquiring more, they seem to have more of a struggle at times than the devotees. But actually, at the end, nobody is left, only a jnani or a devotee. You find that both are present.

So when you hear the voice which speaks in satsang, you have some sort of a recognition that this is what is pointing me to the truth. And if this voice is saying that you don't need to buy anything that the mind is selling you, then as you go out like this, you will find more and more trust is developing in the voice which is in satsang and less and less trust going into the voice which is speaking in the head. Now, if you find that there are some common things which the voice uses—mostly it could be about relationships or it could be about freedom itself—then you use those thoughts for your inquiry. So the thought says, 'But you're not free yet,' then say, 'Who is not free?' Ask yourself with sincerity. In this way, you use the trickster itself to deepen our own inquiry, and then the trickster gets even more running out of what you see. It doesn't know what to do now.

So if there are some common beliefs which you find you quickly latch on to, they seem automatic. When it says like this, then it seems like it is my voice which is saying, 'What about my family?' or 'What about my freedom?' 'What about money?' It could be any of these three or four things. Then you pull that into your inquiry and say, 'Who? Who are you talking about? Who is not free yet?' And we look with full sincerity. See if the body exists as an innocent instrument. It knows nothing about this search for freedom. It's not bound in any way. It has a set of sensations with it which are experienced, and those keep changing from time to time. It is completely free already. Then you find emotions also coming and going. Sometimes sweet, sometimes salty, bitter, spicy—sometimes all different flavors of emotions also, they come and go with full freedom. Nothing is bound over there. Even your thoughts—any thought can come in the next instant and it goes. Nothing is bound over there. Where is one bound?

So Father, like sometimes I feel like I am not capable of that. Like some of those sticky thoughts, I can't incur. The fear is coming. So what I do is like I just follow your point: don't believe it. And I don't like to catch it actually, because I know if I touch it and if I can't conquer it, I feel like...

Freedom. Nothing is bound over there. Even your thoughts—any thought can come in the next instant and it goes. Nothing is bound over there. Where is one bound?

Great. Still, Father, like sometimes I feel like I am not capable of that. Like some of those sticky thoughts, like I can't incur... the cool is coming in. So what I do is like I just follow your point: don't believe it. And I don't like to touch it actually, because I know if I touch it and if I can't conquer it, I feel like always that kind of like, 'Oh my god, I'm in circles, I am still confused, I could not answer it.' So even if it's sometime it feels so hard, I just don't try to touch it. Like I know if I open the can, it will be a can of worms and I can't be able to fight with it. And just laughing, Father, like what I notice is like everything about myself, or my job, or my husband, or my kid, whatever about them, that has to come in the form of a thought in front of me. I mean, like it should always be... it comes like something arising in front of me. They can't just happen by themselves. Anything just like... they're kind of like a reminder to me, 'Oh, you have to do this.' So, as you say, like always try to choose the place, like in a higher place where you are seeing everything. Sometimes I see that actually all the things are not with me; they just come in front of me like reminding something, like 'Oh, you have a job.' If I forget that, then it doesn't matter actually. It's kind of like everything has to show up before this higher place, like 'Oh, you have diseases.' There are some very light... on the first point actually.

This is the importance for us, that there are some now very lightweight thoughts that don't have much power, you see. So those you can just ignore like this. So if attention is not going to them, we can just ignore, drop it like this. But there are some heavyweight thoughts, you see, like a can of worms. If I touch one, then the entire can will come out. We must not try to ignore actually, you see, because every time we are ignoring them, we are actually adding to the fear of them. These are being repressed. What is happening is that it persists inside till it becomes more and more. So we must allow even these to come and go. And sometimes they are very strong. You feel like they're very strong, and a good way is to come up in Satsang and to expose them, that 'I have this thought which seems so strong, you know, every time it comes I buy into it.' So like this, exposing in the Sangha is also very useful. But actually, it just comes like this. Just being close, because the fear of it is actually more than what it can actually do to you. And also, when you come to Satsang, don't worry about it. Allow everything to come and go. In this way, it can get released in this energy field of Satsang itself also. So don't have a fear about any type of thought. When we say ignore it, it means it is just powerless, it's meaningless to you, that's why I ignore it. But if it still feels like so meaningful, so heavy, 'it will get me,' you must allow it right now. You must allow it to come. What is the topic of this can of worms?

Father, it's from... it's like various, like each time. Like today it's kind of like... some time ago it was like about awareness, about consciousness, 'What is that?' and kind of like I went to like an unending maze. Like I was just like walking here and there, and then I was like trying to search each and every video, trying to see like what the Masters pointed and trying to stick with that. I found myself like I have to hold some crutches to fight against them. I can't stand. Like I was looking for like support, like what does Father say, what does Mooji say, what does Adyashanti say. It's kind of like I have to keep on hearing all those things, listening to those, and then at some point I got so tired. I thought like, 'Let it be. I don't care what it is. Awareness knows what it is, let it be whatever it is.' Maybe just leave that. Then I stopped it. Then now all of a sudden now it comes like, 'What is this? Why are you ignoring me?' this voice. 'This is... or else you will get crazy.' So it's kind of like the more I try to... you know, Father, what I mean? Like it's kind of like it's always needing some pointings or something to hold me to fight against it. And I feel like because all the masters say like try to be effortless, don't try to hold on or stick some crutches, so I drop them. So today is like, Father, like I had the strong thought like I got identified with it. Like when there is like a quotation I read, like 'The gap between the thought is where you are, and you watch the thought and you also watch there is no thought.' So suddenly a thought came like, 'The voice for you made this quote, not like quotations.'

Yes, yes. Then the voice says like, 'Oh, then I'm chattering. It's a thought that I'm silent, this is there is no thought.' So I thought like, where do you bring this? It's very good you bring this up actually, because what is happening is that which we call the seeker identity is reliant on picking up a bundle of concepts and adding it to its basket of spiritual ideas, you see. And it says, 'I must understand this, I must also understand this, I must also understand this, I must also understand this.' Actually, it is much simpler than that. Something appears to you on Facebook or wherever, you just look at it, you see how it resonates with your experience. If it resonates with your experience, you keep it, not as a mental concept; it is seen in this way. And that which does not resonate with your direct experience, you keep it aside, don't bother about it, even if it comes from God directly.

But Father, there is something which says like, 'Oh, you don't understand now anything now. You should try to get this one into your system, try to have this thing merged into so that next time you will be like more stronger, more be like more quiet, more peaceful.' Now this one, this time to me, the time and doing... with it is still the seeker identity.

Nothing needs to be known mentally also. You can just start fresh, looking from the right now. You see what you are, and from this you can just share from the right now, saying, 'This is what I am. This is appearing, that is appearing, thoughts are appearing, emotions are appearing, they are coming and they are going. I remain untouched.' This is from direct experience. If you had no spiritual concept but you are looking completely fresh from right now, you would be able to see this. No need to remember this or understand this or know this. Then it is just the spiritual journey is being enjoyed. And this joy that 'I understand that,' but it is not really still about the truth. The truth is here already before any concept of the truth, before any pointing of the truth. I don't mind if I forget the words Atma, Brahman, awareness, consciousness, being, witnessing, all of this, because these words can be used interchangeably with the direct seeing of what is here that cannot be taken away.

So that is important. I think I took more time, there might be people waiting for the line. So I enjoy seeing you very much and I feel that we hardly get a chance anyway like this. It's very good. Yes, so Father, like when we talk about witnessing, isn't it like simultaneously whatever it's arising, there will be a witnessing arising along with, together? Like there cannot be a witnessing without any... even if it's a blank or even if it's something else, whatever it is arising, there is simultaneously a witnessing for that.

Let's look at it this way. This is very good you asked this. So when something is arising, the witnessing is there. And when something is not there, is the witnessing not there to say that, 'No, there is nothing here'?

But Father, then there is something not that... when there is a blank, isn't that also as something, a phenomena?

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. So even that blankness, there is a witnessing of that. Yes. Say that what is the state in which there is nothing, there is no concept even of blank or of something arising? That state is the deep sleep state. But if I ask you, 'So what happened in the sleep state?' you will say, 'What sleep state? Nothing happened.' There is no thing. And this is also your experience. So this primal witnessing that we speak about, this awareness that we speak about also, is aware that there is no phenomena in my sleep state. Because if there was no awareness also, then we would not know about something called the sleep state at all. It would just be waking and dream. But we know there is something called sleep that I experience, you see. So if you were to fall asleep now and you wake up in the evening, then suddenly it's not like, 'Oh, there was this time right now and suddenly it's this time.' You see the sun was whatever... what time is it in the US? It's dark right now and suddenly there is so much light, you see. It's not like that. You know that you fell asleep and you know that you woke up. So even when nothing is there in sleep, you are aware at all. And this 'I' that is aware of it cannot be phenomenal because all phenomena is gone. So this is not coming and going. It is the eternal witness to all that is coming and going.

Can there be a time where this witnessing is not present?

If you are talking about the phenomenal perceiving, which is to put the witnessing of these phenomena, phenomenon sensed through senses or through internal... simply put, internal perception, then that is also a part of the phenomenal play. That is not what we are talking about. That which is aware of all of this happening remains untouched. It will remain untouched through the creation and destruction of this entire universe, you see. From the beginning of time till the end of time, this remains untouched. This is the unborn, undying. It is not coming and going.

Because, Father, because I have never experienced deep sleep, but I remembered like I had one kind of... like two times in general anesthesia. So it was kind of a deep sleep and I woke up after three hours. I didn't realize that I slept for three hours until somebody told me that you were unconscious or you were like for three hours. I didn't know anything what happened during that time. Oh, so maybe I always referred to that as a deep sleep. But I always like refer also to that dream, a dream which I sleep and I see the dream. I see that in the dream I have a dream body, like I'm running, I'm jumping on something happening and I'm struggling and I'm going through this as if I am like so much protecting my body. I ran to the body and I'm meeting people and then I wake up and I see like, 'Oh, the body was here and I was like so much into that body.' So is that this also the same dream body, Father? Like as I dream, give up that body, running, taking care of it so much. Well, like in the dream I see like my own movements. I saw a horrible dream like why something happened to my dad and I was crying, crying so much in the dream, and then I woke up and I saw that nothing happened. And then I felt like because when I compare like where I do some, I feel like the same thing is here. There is like a dream body, this thing like which I am talking now also.

Yes, yes. There is actually no difference. And this is our own experience, that that body seems as real. In fact, it could be that that is the waking state and this is the dream state. You will wake up out of this and go into that and say, 'I had this strange body, it was sitting in front of a computer, it was talking to some guru on a hangout, and this guru was just in t-shirt and tousled,' you know? So it can seem as weird and as real as that. So there is no difference. But what is very interesting in what you said is that you have never experienced sleep state? Every night you go straight to dream and wake up from dream?

All I remember is like my half as a dream, like two or three...

She will wake up out of this and go into that and say, 'I had this strange body. It was sitting in front of a computer. It was talking to some guru on a Hangout, and this guru was just in a t-shirt and tousled,' you know? So it can seem as weird and as real as that. So there is no difference. But what is very interesting in what you said is that you have never experienced the sleep stage? Every night you go straight to dream and wake up from dream?

Oh, all I remember is like my half as a dream. Like two or three, didn't see four. If they wake up, click, from it, from asleep, I go to another dream. All that I remember, there's no night song which you wake up in the morning and say that there was no dream. Every, every sleep is deviated. It is kind of, I think so, because no, not actually. Because if I sleep for five or six or seven hours, I don't remember seven hours of dream. Like, I can't narrate anything seven hours for. I can just fall in five minutes or ten minutes and I can say what I dreamt about, but the rest of the time I might be having a sleep which I don't well realize it. I just take those five minutes or ten minutes of kind of experience as my sleep.

Yes. So you have no sense, like if you have a nap sometimes, just half an hour or something like this, you don't feel like you went to sleep and you woke up from sleep ever?

Yes, Father. I sleep that I, I mean, I feel that like getting up from a sleep. I feel that. But that deep sleep I never experienced. I mean, and now I see like what you saying.

Yes, it's not experienced phenomenally because there is no phenomena to experience over there. There is nothing that we can say about it. But this is where it has to be, actually, because most will say, 'I went to sleep and there was nothing,' you know? And then I woke up and all this play of something started. So even there is awareness of this nothing, that there was nothing and there was something difference between sleep and waking state. So when we say, 'I woke up at 6:00 a.m. or 7:00 a.m.,' whatever time you wake up, what do we really mean? What woke up? See, that we can look at.

So far, like that I sleep and I see like I don't try to control anything in the, in the dream. Like, like when I, when I wake up, I see like I try to control or I try to do something, apply something, do something. But in the dream, if something is happening, I just go flow with that. Like if I'm going to be river and I rope, I like going and doing that and there is no kind of slow resistance or nothing to that. And this flowing through it, even though I'm expressing, experiencing some, some, some kind of like some other things, but there is no such thing called as resistance or trying to work out or something kind of, there is no, no thing. But when I wake up, like the morning or from the sleep, there comes the idea. It tries to now figure out like, 'Okay, let's do this thing, let's see this thing.' All these things come into place. But in the dream it never happen. Even if I see a demon, there is no strategy going on in my head like how to tackle it.

Yes, yes. My experience is little different, actually. I have seen that even in the dream state, there can be the sense of choice. 'What should I do? Should I go left? I go right?' The sense of decision-making is there. The sense of frustration can come. The sense of not knowing what to do can come. It's only that upon waking, some of these memories could be going, that I was feeling the sense of choice or decision-making and things, and it feels like everything just happened. Which is exactly how it is even now. Everything is just happening, but we are creating this idea to have some control with it. There is actually no control over anything at all. Everything is just happening, just like the dream.

Yes, yes. Because a thought comes and say something, then other part comes is like, 'Oh, you didn't pay attention to that.' But that I stopped. Another part comes like, then I see like after five or six, we just die. It doesn't do anything if I don't touch it. They just come with like a package, like buy one get three free, buy two get five free. It comes like that. It's like if, if I, I see like, Father, like I had very like something happen in my neighborhood, like some kind of like an incident, some kind of like a shooting something. So I got very scared about it. Then that, then thought come like, 'Oh, if you should go home here and you should check it if something happens.' Then I used to get the panic thing going on inside my own self. Then following the pointings, Father, like first a thought came like, 'Oh, you should go back to where, from whom, like to go from where too early, like to make sure everything is good.' That I didn't touch it. Then another thought came like, 'Wow, what, what will happen even if others, some will come into a house?' Then I didn't touch it. The other ones come, then they died. This happened for like two or three times. I don't see it stopped completely, what it happened. Then now when I look back, I just laugh at myself. This is come in a row, like a children holding together. They just come together. All the thoughts just like they have like a strategy. If you don't do this, the option B or option C, if the order of D. There's like an unending, never-ending process. So let us come along with that. So I stopped like, but that's what I told, like I sometimes I stop it because I know like if I open it, I don't have any, I can't do that enquiry like 'Who am I?' like 'Whom does it?' because mind will throw so much tantrums to that. So I feel, so I feel like I should be more coming more to the satsang, Father, like to be with this and because this kind of religious a lot of concepts, lot of beliefs. Even though, even though I watched the videos of like a recorded see stuff, but talking to you face to face is totally different. It's totally different, Father. It feels like you're talking to my heart and I am just talking, listening to you. Thank you so much, Father. Love you a lot.

Love you too. The windy away today, we don't need any concept, actually. If we do want some concept, then this whole hang on to some of these very basic concepts: 'I don't believe your next thought,' 'Can I stop being now?', 'Am I aware now?', 'Who am I?' Just if you want to have a basket of concepts, just keep these, because very little confusion is possible in these. Don't pick up too many other spiritual concepts also. They are not in service to us. They are in service to the seeker identity. But just these concepts, just to be used as thorns to remove whatever thorns might still remain, and then everything is thrown away. The seeker identity is the aspect of the ego which is trying to make you, give you some spiritual mastery by collecting all sorts of knowledge and concepts and ideas. And there was a phase here in this life also where I could quote you all the masters and all the scriptures and all of the, not all, but many of these spiritual ideas. But when life started biting, none of these was helping. And grace actually gave this question: 'Is it so? What's the point of knowing all of this theory or the point of being able to say and parrot all of this if, when suffering comes, then you fire and find yourself shaking like a leaf?' So then I realized that it is of no value just to know these mentally. Better not to know anything at all and just to be open to looking at what is here. You are the truth already right now. You don't need to rely on any other truths. You are the most authentic, mostly filled with integrity. So all pointers, even the pointers in satsang, just use them. Check first if something is ringing true. If it's resonating, then you keep it. If something makes no sense, then you have two options: one is to come up and say, 'But this doesn't make sense. I don't see it like this. Can we look together?' Or if it is not resonating, you just keep it aside. Don't have to believe it in yourself with any concept. This is the unburdening. Some concepts, this is the coming from 'I know something' to 'I don't know anything at all.' Going from the false knowing to the true knowingness itself. So let's not worry too much about these concepts. Let's speak from direct experience. And here, actually, I have to say that what do you see? What is here? Then it really doesn't matter even if you are referring to the most, the holiest spiritual scripture which seems to be countering what is directly experienced. You have to go with what is directly seen. Because the point of scripture is not to fill us up with concepts, but to point for us to check. And if we find that it does not correlate with our direct experience, then it can safely be thrown away. Sages quoting concepts, and that is not the integrity that we spoke about. The meaning of integrity is to stay true to what is directly seen and speak from there, not staying true to any mental ideas or concepts.

I was gonna, I was going to talk about something that's been coming up, but whenever I actually like come up to talk to you, I, it's not there. So I don't know if I should still talk about it.

Yeah, you can say a little bit.

Okay. It's something that, um, I don't really even know what to say. I just, it's like an energy that I, then I noticed and it's like the suffering energy, you know? And I can't say if it's always been there or if I'm just more acutely, like, and I'm more acutely aware of it now, or if I, it's just something that's actually coming up and more, I don't know. But I just noticed maybe a week ago, like some old tendencies are coming back, like this tendency of distraction and, and lending, like ever, and if you're not burn makeup of like the things that we do to distract ourselves. And this little coming up before at all, like an inertia cache or anything. When I started coming up on like, this is like, what is, what's going on? And I noticed and I really looked at it and I saw that whenever this times you get distract us to distract from this like suffering energy or something. And so I just like that with it. And when I really looked at it, the little stores or distraction of distraction can come. The mind gets adapted to their distraction and because of that distractions of suffering energy use, then it's what you say, what I feel is this energy comes and I mean, yeah, it's like this, this energy if just like, it's just like some, some energy is there and then, and it gives I go suffering, it was something. Yeah, but I see now, I see that there's no sufferer. So that before I would, I would say like would happen would be something like I feel this energy and either I would tell myself the story like I'm suffering and some thoughts would come. Like I really feel like this energy comes first and then the thoughts come that tell you a reason that. And I would say I'm suffering, or I would, to avoid going into that, I would try to distract myself with some kind of like TV or eating or whatever, anything. And that's all I noticed, the tendency to like want to do the distraction. And that's when I actually first started seeing that the energy is just what kind of comes first. And like I've, I've read Eckhart Tolle before and like I don't, I don't want to make a concept out of it, but it really felt like this is the pain body. Like just this like person, I don't know, the suffering energy, but there's no sufferer and just with story we tell. And it's been coming up so much like the past week, just, yeah, like it's there now too, just, just like this, you know? But and yeah, I just wanted to somehow, I didn't know if I should say something because from the perspective of like, like the truth, it's nothing. So I just, I just wanted to say it somehow. I just felt like it, you had, maybe I'm seeing it wrong or maybe you had something else that could, I could see it differently or something. And maybe it's nothing at all, I don't know.

Good. So the sense of energetic pain body or suffering sort of entity, you see it here now? And you also like have a flower on your face. If it always comes with them and it, that's the thing, I didn't feel that before. Horses like peace and happiness, all this stuff. I know it's just like I sit in my, sit in my room like this for a long time and but I'm not because I...

Maybe I'm getting it wrong, or maybe you had something else that I could see it differently or something, and maybe it's nothing at all. I don't know. Good. So, the sense of an energetic body, your suffering sort of entity, you see it here now. And you also, like, have a flower on your face if it always comes with them. And that's the thing I didn't feel that before. Of course, it's like peace and happiness, all this stuff. I know it's just like I sit in my room like this for a long time, but I'm not, because I really just let it be there and I'm not really suffering anymore. It's just the energy is there. Or does this energy there is its way to the Chi? Like, it's appearing, it's in here. And yes, also just don't resist it. Just like, using allowing it to be there. And let's look at it together. How's it feeling? Is it feeling strong or mild?

Or more mild? But it can attain medium. And it is just purely energy-based like this, or does it also come along with some thoughts and messages?

I ask sometimes like what the message is, and sometimes it's always like the most egoic things. And so it's been really beautiful to look at those like stories and all that stuff. But sometimes it's just the energy.

What is your first memory of this kind of energy?

Oh, Wyatt. I have this... I was like on a bus. I'm going to camp. So random. I was like, before this I never had this sense of... I was a pretty obnoxious child. Like, I was really loud and would boss everyone around and everything. And that is because it was you. But I was... or maybe I wasn't, but I was really just like really loud and like I just did whatever and had no sense of like some consciousness in any way. And then, and then I remember I was on the bus and I was being really like... I was just, I don't know what I was doing, dancing or whatever. And then all of a sudden I realized, 'Wait, I'm being like loud and I feel like these people don't like me' for the first time. And then I had this feeling of like self-consciousness, like the egoic self-consciousness. Like, I've been acting wrong this whole time or something like that. And like after that, I became like much more psychologically self-conscious, like of how people see me and things like that.

So that moment, you convinced yourselves of your existence as the person?

Yes, because maybe I wasn't obnoxious before, but that was what the fallacy is. You're not just it louder. There was no external trigger to just like your wanton. I think I saw some people or just kind of have the sense like maybe an expression of like, yeah, disapproval or something like that. Yeah, that signifies this sort of energetic thing. The first thing, I can't say that's when I first felt it, but that's the story that came up when you asked me.

In this case especially, we must not see it coming. You must say it is going, because it has been there. Ideas about ourselves and how we must be, this self-consciousness, this ego consciousness, the separate sense of existence which cares about people's opinions about us, our own thoughts, their thoughts—all this seems to be primary for this one. So now this one has been there, now it has to come up like this. Hearing the sirens of satsang and you've been here now, so it will come up to be released. As you're coming to your unassociated beingness, all this seeming energetic reservoir must also be emptied out, you see? And Grace knows exactly when to deal with what. And as you are here, it's the perfect time and space to allow all of this to go, because not even a blade of grass you will carry. And you're coming to the truth of what you are. And there is something very primal in the stories of it, because in this play as unassociated being, we just want to dance. Joyful dance is just happening. But the mind comes and says, 'Behave yourself. Get a life, you know? Get some work. Be responsible.' Or still be sticking. So it's very, very primal. This whole thing is the core messaging of the mind, the ego: 'You have to... you cannot lead a joyful existence and cannot dance about. Get serious now.' We are getting rid of all of these ideas.

Somehow, like in just letting it be, it becomes... there's like a joy in that too. I mean, but also it's fearless. How long is this going to be there, like this big pain body or something?

I don't know. So what did Tolle say you're supposed to do with the pain body? Have you read his book?

And I would... I want to live... there was something. That's the thing, I normally don't think about him at all, but like this is just it. That's what it's really about. Like, he would have said we must not try to push it away. You know, he said it, he do it?

Yeah, just like in the presence of your awareness, it's like melting or something like that. But now it's nice to be able to see through that pattern of distraction, especially. That was big to see, like, I don't want to run from it anymore.

Yeah, it's still there, this. Yeah, so it's there a lot recently. What's it doing? To figure it out, just look up a festering like... can he love it? Yeah, it's Mr. Grumpy Face. Yeah, I just feel like I'm sitting with a grumpy face all the time, which I wasn't like that before. So playing is always like so happy and blissed out, and now I'm just sitting with this grumpy face.

Very good. When it's time to get leave, you'll say bye-bye to Mr. Grumpy Face. There is no rush.

I still just feel like a slight fear, like when will it go? I guess I don't know how... when did we know that bus journey? How many years ago? Oh my god, like it was like eleven or maybe seven, I don't know what. Yeah, I guess it's always been there and just more acutely aware of it.

Yeah, okay. It doesn't get in the way of anything. It's not intense, no. Even if it is very intense, even daggers, it doesn't get in the way of anything because you are there prior to them.

Yeah, because from even yesterday we're talking about like as awareness, like it's nothing and so on. Then I was...

Yes, but you know what happens sometimes is that because we know that for awareness it is nothing, then we try to convince ourselves that it's nothing. But that becomes mental in a way, and then we come to some sort of an Advaita denial of what is appearing. And we must not do that. Then you get stuck like this in the concept of 'it's nothing.' Then we will start becoming in denial of what is appearing instead of just being open to it and looking at it fresh and being able to laugh at it. Just trying to fight it away by saying it's nothing, but it doesn't leave, it's still feeling like something. It's something the mind is saying is nothing. It's not thinking to come like that.

So we can just see it as just another appearance?

Exactly. We are not denying the appearance of it and we're open to experiencing what it is doing, but we see that for that which I truly am, it has no effect. It does not touch me in any way. In that way, it is nothing.

And that was happening a little bit like that, like a denial was happening a little bit. And also this thing like, yeah, from that absolute perspective, even just to come up and ask a question about... like you have to pick up the concept or believe a thought to do it. At the end, I just... I need... I should come up and talk about it anyway. And even just this thing of like, it's still the doership, like to come up or not and all this stuff.

Those beauties you can't have lost. Okay, good. Notice also do this: you had this thing that I asked, is it not so strong now? I do, yeah. Yeah, that's what you have all... yeah, that's what I felt like. It's about this trying to conform to some right way of behavior from maybe starting off at that bus ride over. Anything around that which is still something for you, sticky for you, you rebel of you. Did you just come up with some silly question? And if you don't, let everyone think you're so silly. What would happen if you... breakdown? You know, what will happen? Will the world stop spinning? Yes, it probably comes with a really obnoxious... comes up to the most silly question. Everyone's thinking, 'Why does she have to talk so much?' Let's see what that will look like.

And sometimes when I do ask the story behind it, it's like the most, like I said, the most egoic stuff comes up. Like, great, five-star. Not like even like the spiritual, it's just like plain ego. But I don't even know, it's just there. It's just like these... I don't know, it's just there.

Incredible. But we found that this seems to be some something, because I remember maybe you said that in the Midwest we have these norms of behaving properly and things like this, which is also about the same thing actually. That it could be that you're feeling some pressure externally to conform to how what is good behavior or not. I know those hiding to that same 'these people are not liking what you're doing' behaviors are, you know? It is that one story. It seems to be a constant.

What? Yeah, I think it's like we're more with anonymous chilling in the Midwest, but more like... and like I see in my family, it's just like this... I don't know, it's just called... yeah, it's very egoic with being... I don't know if it's the whole world is like that, maybe. I think some cultures or some places, especially more self-conscious work here, this 'we speak this way, don't say this.' It's too constrictive. Although for them it feels like this is the right way to be in the world, but it's very constricting. It's very quick. That's why I really like being in India, or like whenever I go home I feel like I'm tiptoeing around my house. Even just now, past few months, like it's just like I really... I can't even explain this. Like I'm wearing... I don't know, like I mean even just like the most basic things. Like my mom and what a family whatever tells me like, 'Go put some makeup on.' Like, you know, just like basic things. Like just keep reminding me like of these just basic... just like 'you're a person, you're a person' and like 'go get a job, you're wasting your life, what are you doing?' Like, and then just yeah, and just so many rules, you know? That's what I like being in India. Like you can eat with your hands and you can just like... it is more relaxed, you know? It's just there's so many of us, nobody really cares.

I will open the paper this morning and I said this, I read this news article that 81 people were hurt yesterday in Bangalore protesting some Provident Fund withdrawals, and nobody knew anything about the 81 people. In any other country, it'll be a big thing that 81 people were injured in a protest. Here it's just something, you know? Tomorrow nobody will remember. Okay, so just like this. So you don't have to be anyway in satsang. If you feel like jumping about, you feel like laughing, crying, everything is allowed. Be... I want to see people's corpses from acting. Let's see what she looks like, because I don't feel it would be real corpses at all. I think I was just like having fun and just relaxing. It's holy. It will come and try to tell you, 'Are you doing well at your work? Are you making enough money? Is your wife happy with you? Are your kids doing all that?' Something they will try to remind us that will get us back into this idea of, 'Oh, I must do something happens. Get serious.' Just like that, it tries to... it is never... misery loves company, they say. Misery loves company. So everyone is being so miserable as people, so when one is getting away, there's a 'Come back you! How dare you look here? How dare you come back and do your work?' We can either do all of this slowly. When I was asking like the story behind, like is there a message in this feeling, and one thing like that the mind... it likes a mafia, like this thing that Guruji says about how the mind is the biggest mafia. But even just the way our society is structured, it's like this.

Yeah, and then some people about this mafia is that it starts with the people who seem to love you the most, isn't it? So even now if I go to my parents' house, they'll be like, 'How's your work going?' and all some... any question, the word satsang and all that. But I know they're really getting to the core of your teachers. Are you still...

The mind, it likes a mafia. Like this thing that Guruji says about how the mind is the biggest mafia. But even just the way our society is structured, it's like this. And then some people about this mafia is that it starts with the people who seem to love you the most, isn't it? So even now, if I go to my parents' house, they'll be like, 'How's your work going?' and all that. Some question the word satsang and all that, but I know they're really getting to the core of: 'Are you still working properly?' My dad will be like, 'Why don't you just find somebody who can buy you out? You know, you cash out now.' Because he feels like he knows where this is going, so this company will build up and then it will be worthless anyway. So, 'Why don't you just cash out now?'

It's all to do with the matter of the mind, but because it comes in the garb of those who love you the most, that's why it seems to have this power. I think I was talking to Zia a few days ago about this. The parents or the people who love you must say, 'You know, it's coming out of love.' But it's coming out of the exact opposite, you know? And I really had this feeling when I was back home like a few months ago. It doesn't matter what I said. I would say, 'I'm doing well, I'm happy,' but it would still be like this. It's just pure fear and worry again and again and again and again. And it doesn't matter what you say. I just really felt like, I mean, at some point I was just going to leave, and I probably should have left, but I stayed around and I felt like it crushed my spirit, you know? To be in this environment for like two months, it's just like a constant environment of anxiety and worry and fear. And then it disguises itself as some kind of love or something, but really they do mean it from a good place, but they just don't see it.

And it's so like, in my mind, I think I was also trying to make some Advaita excuses like, 'As awareness, you know, you can be anywhere' and all this stuff. But in reality, I don't feel it's a good environment, you know, to be in that. And so, I don't know, I just felt like saying that.

Yes, and you have to go with your intuitive sense about that. But there will come a point where your presence will bless those around you, and they also make that a true model, although they won't admit it. You see, even our parents need to know how not to suffer, and they need to see one who is not suffering in spite of whatever might be happening. They might worry, and fear might come about that: 'Why is he not worrying? He has a wife and kids and has to take care of things. Why is he not worried and suffering?' But also, they need to have that role model to be able to see that it is possible in this realm to have a suffering-free, worry-free existence.

But you have to go with your intuition and you have to say, 'Okay, right now I need some space from them. I need to marinate in this truth of what I'm discovering I am.' Later, then it won't matter. You will not agree with them, but it will not be like, 'Oh, they're crushing me.'

Oh yeah. I mean, in many ways I felt many things that they were saying were like not touching anything, you know? It was just some concepts. They still held that, and that's what was hurting. But still, they're constantly trying to engage with me and like, bait me. I would love to just—it sounds like a terrible thing to say—but I would be totally happy to actually never see my family again. And I felt that way for years. Like, they're just people, but they have such a strong attachment to me as their daughter. Maybe like a few members... do you have any siblings?

I have an elder sister.

I really do like... I mean, the culture, whatever, it's just like really controlling and all this stuff. But yeah, I really... they're constantly like trying to engage with me, but I really could just... I don't ever...

Yeah, for me, I actually had a big switch that happened once I had children. So everything that I used to resent my parents for, then I started seeing all this. 'Oh, it's so nice that they're like this, so bothered about me, so concerned about me.' And I saw it was coming from my own children. So something just switched and I felt like I could understand both sides of it. So now I can understand when my son is rebelling and saying, 'This is it,' because I was there not that long ago. And I also understand when my parents... my mom still, I'm 41, she still calls and says, 'What did you eat for breakfast? Are you eating?' You know?

No, that would drive me crazy. I don't know how you do it.

Now it doesn't so much. For me, it used to be like that when I was 20, 25, 27, until I had kids. When I had kids, then I said, 'Okay, this is what it is.' Sometimes I just fool with them now, actually. So I go there and she says, 'So what did you eat? Have you been eating food? Are you taking care of yourselves?' I said, 'No, I'm not eating anything since I came here last time. I've just been air-fed. We have no money and there is no food.' So you can make these jokes and then it becomes like this, it becomes a little bit like a skit.

Yeah, and then sometimes I feel guilty, like, but I really feel like that. I don't feel any attachment to my family. And then many times the only thing that really keeps me communicating with them is actually guilt. Like, is it according to them? What is it? I don't think they'll ever find this video, so...

Sure, no, she's good.

That's what I'm not... because okay, I'll say like for the record, like my dad, I feel a really close relationship with my dad. Okay, that could actually work against me for the rest of the family. But like with the rest, I really often have felt this feeling of like... I went through many periods where I don't talk to them for like maybe months. I won't, because I don't feel I need to. But then the only energy from them is always like, 'You need to call us more, you need to talk to us more.' And I'm always... you do know there's... I'm kind of the only child, but not really, but it's hard to explain. In many ways, I am the only child.

Yeah, and oh, this is what I was telling to you. What I was trying to say was when I was younger and growing up, up until I was like 22 or 23 or something, I was like really living like the life I'm supposed to live. But it was like I had, you know, I went to university and then I had the job and everything. But actually, I was like really unhappy and I also had like self-destructive habits as well, like drinking and things like that. But that's when my family left me alone and that's when they just let me do whatever. And then once I quit my job and everything and started to go more into spirituality, that's when they started like trying to control me. And that's what I was trying to say. And I think that's when I'm finally like finding happiness and trying to go more into what's important, that's when they started putting all this attention and resistance on me. Whereas before, it was just like, 'Oh, just let her do whatever, she's fitting in.'

So that is, yes, you know, they have the same thing, the big fear that if this spiritual bug catches you, then you're gone. Then your whole life is wasted or something. Like you have this also, this concept that it becomes... how do you want to live in a cage of these kind of things? Because it happens here in India because they have an idea of what happiness looks like. And many parents are trying to lead their lives again vicariously through their children, you know? I don't mean to mistake, I mean, 'Do like this, don't do like that.' The same. And I mean, we'll just imagine good, but it cannot be that way. As I say, don't take advice of this type from those who are not free from their own suffering yet. It cannot be. But you'll find that the sense of resentment will dissolve also. Then it will start... what happens is that you're able to then watch from both sides. You can also like step behind their eyes and see how this must be feeling for them.

They had a daughter who's so well on track. She went to university, she had a job, drinking with her friends, all everything that she's supposed to be doing. And now she's going to India and she's going to some ashrams and tomatoes to fight over how much they know. This is bound to be scary for them. I can understand this. And all they probably know about India is all the hippies in the sixties and they came here, you know, the Beatles. I don't even know if they know that much.

The thing is, like, I'm not really honest with them and I'll tell them like, 'You know, I used to be really unhappy.' And then they kind of... I don't know if they really saw it, but... and I used to be like, 'Yeah, I used to drink a lot and I used to like all these things.' And they were fine with it. But now I don't. I told them like, it's been a few times they asked if I want wine or something, 'Actually no, I don't drink anymore.' Like, I don't... they can see that I changed for the better and they do say that, but they still persist with the stories and stuff. But yeah, I guess the question I do have still is like that feeling of just wanting them to leave me alone is just the basic primal thing. And I can see from their eyes that they feel rejected or something, or I can see that, but I'm really only interacting with them out of guilt or a feeling of responsibility. Like, there's love, but the love is the same as for anyone else. I don't feel a particular like...

Yeah, so I was like, I want to defend them a bit. I don't know why. And you see, let's just... okay, so I'll just say that, you know, when I had my son, before that I was like, 'What's the big deal? What have my parents done which is so special in my life? Every parent takes care of their kids and things.' And within ten days, the entire concept was blown because it is not easy, you know? And my son was hypersensitive, hyperactive, he was born with jaundice, everything was happening with him. And so taking care, everything was going on. There was no sleep, you know, just... and it's been like this even now he's a teenager, but everything has been something or the other, something or the other.

And usually, it's that parenting is... they used to say there are seven billion of us, if we... you know, everybody's been a parent, they brought up their children. But even then, I must say that being a parent is probably the hardest thing I've ever done. Yeah, so there's nothing else that deserves some respect or love or something? Not to give you a lecture or something, but I just feel like I want to share my switch and how it happened because it was so clear here also. I was ready: 'This, my dad is already to use work, he didn't help me with my stuff, he didn't tell me anything.' It was this sort of resentment there and lots of things with my mom also. But once I had my kids, there's a much greater affection for them, a much greater love for them and respect for what they did. Just basically physically what they had to go through is better.

So I should just get everything, make a video, then just get married and have kids with you? Maybe they'd be very happy if I did that.

It's like what? Yes, yeah, that would be work. You'll experience some respect for my father, for my parents, who let me have chosen. Yes, of course. MMB wants to say something too, probably.

So I used to have similar feelings towards my entire family like many years ago. Like I could just never talk to them again. And I was just different circumstances that I had a lot of strong human things and just like it shifted here. But I think somehow my parents are a lot like the same. I just talked to my mom last week and she's very worried about me and like really concerned because I don't... I was like, you know, I'm not fitting into like her projection of what she thinks and all of that. It still can be like a bit annoying, but for the most part, it's just kind of like I can just... I don't know if I'm more detached or something, but it's just I can...

I had a lot of strong human things and just like it's shifted here, but I think somehow my parents are a lot like the same. I just talked to my mom last week and she's very worried about me and like really concerned because I don't—I was like, you know, I'm not fitting into like her projection of what she thinks and all of that. It still can be like a bit annoying, but for the most part, it's just kind of like I can just—I don't know if I'm more detached or something—but it's just I can see it's just sweet. Like there's just a sweetness even in that, you know? It's just like, and I started laughing when she was sharing this and she said, 'It's not funny, I'm serious.' And I'm like, 'Okay, I'm sorry, yes.' Thank you. But you know, so I just wanted to share that, how it just—it's still the same, a lot of it's still the same for them, but it's just somehow like there's—it's almost sweet, even they're so concerned somehow. Thank you.

So I think it was a couple of times ago, Shivan took me home—is he here? No. And he just asked me about my family too. And you know, my mom like thinks Mooji's the devil, like Satan himself. Thinks Michael's a minion of Satan. Yeah. So every time we talk, it's like the same thing. And I was sharing this with Shivan, you know, and he brought up something and I just want to share with you because it—I don't know what—it radically changed here. But he told me that there was someone in satsang that came to ask Mooji a question and it was like what we're talking about, like, 'My parents, like, they don't understand me, they don't get me, like this, that and the other.' And then, I don't know if it's word for word, but Mooji said—he said to him, it's like, 'You're the only chance they have at Truth.' And I don't know, just that just changed everything. A little fire in here. And yeah, I just put that first for anything that they say or anything like that, like, I'm their only chance at Truth. And like I said, like even hearing my mom and—I don't know, it just—it did something. So I just want to share that with you.

And that's a look—look, it might be a good idea not to tell them that, you know, 'Mom, I'm your only chance.'

So my dad, he's like—he told me, he's like, 'My whole life I've been working like for you.' And he is like, 'And when you just stopped,' he's like, 'I don't even know why I go to work anymore. Like, I don't even have the strength to go to work anymore.' And he's like, 'The only thing I'm living on right now is that you say that you're happy.' You know, it's like, 'You were very depressed, you were in your room, I thought, you know, I was going to lose you.' And then some of the kind of things my dad ever said to me, he's just like, 'Listen,' he's like, 'I don't know what the hell you're doing there.' He's like, 'I don't care, I really don't give a damn. When your mom brings it up, I just tell her shut up.' But he's like, 'Listen, you said that—' he's like, 'You said that this is what's going to make you happy.' So he's like, 'You better not run from this.' He said, 'Whatever you went to go do,' he's like, 'You better do it. You better not come back and saying like, "Oh, I don't want to hear it."' He's like, 'I don't—whatever it is that you're going to go do,' he's like, 'You better man up and go all the way.' And he's like, 'Because your mom—' because like, he's like, 'Your mom and I right here,' he's like, 'We don't know what to do.' He's like, 'So you better come back—like you better do it,' you know? And like, that switched so much here. I was like, 'Alright Dad, I got you.' Yeah, I'd rather share that too.

Yeah, everyone here, whatever you came to do, like man up and get it done. Woman up and get it done. It's all funny, you know, that this is—there's some American TV show called The Goldbergs, I don't know if some of you have seen it. The Goldbergs is about these kids growing up in the seventies or something, late seventies or the eighties maybe. And now what that's showing is like my life, listening to the same music and everything, and the parents are the same, you know, things they say. All of us have had very similar things growing up. Could be culturally a bit—there are some differences in things we hear, but love shines through even under the veneer of this, you know? Yeah, I would be—if I was a parent from the US, New Jersey, so I was in New Jersey and my kids grew up there, everything like this, and one day they said, 'I'm going for satsang to India.' I don't know whether I'd let them go, actually. I have to be honest. You'd say, 'No, you stay here. What is it? Listen, watch it online.'

She's a hardcore Christian. You want the mic again? This might be good for everyone.

So what does it mean, hardcore Christian?

Like, I guess first, her connotation of India is that there are many gods being worshipped here, right? And then her as a Christian, she's telling me, she's like, 'Listen, there's just one God, okay?' And then she's like, 'How can I let you go and worship other gods?' She's like, 'You're going to burn in hell.' And then, you know, like that's like her whole thing. She said, 'I just don't want you to burn in hell.' She's like, 'I don't want you worshipping multiple gods because like there's only one,' you know? And like, I tried to tell her, I was like, 'If Mooji went to freaking like Canada, that's where I would be.' If, you know, like I had nothing to do with like India. And I was like, 'I'm not there for that.' And just another beautiful thing, like, my mom always asks me, she's like, 'What are you—' like he just said, 'What are you trying to do?' And I was just like—and this is one of the most beautiful things she's ever said to me—but she said, 'What are you—what are you doing?' you know? And I was just like, 'Mom, like, I just want to know what Jesus knew. Like, whatever he knew, like, I just want to know.' And she said, 'Okay then.' So she said, 'Next time I see you, then I want to see Jesus.' So, and my sister said that as well too. So yeah, they love me. I love you, Mom. Yes, I'm going to be in trouble. And I just—because I just wanted to say, like, I think so that this thing of like, 'Oh, leave me alone,' that's also—it's just like the flip side of the ego. Like, it's just it. And I have seen that, like this running away, resisting, you know, hiding, 'Go away, go away,' like, you know. And it should just be—it's gonna come right. What did you speak? It's been coming up.

So actually, it will be with the—I don't want—it's not for the camera, very—yeah, yeah. I really feel like that'll all get washed away, but it has just been coming up as well. And I think it's good to just like have a conversation like that. And also you gave me the liberty to just do whatever, so I've just been just speaking and what I—very good, because you must not feel like, oh, we're in that—I mean, this constricted in my—thank you so much.

Actually, it might be good for them to hear this now because they'll also feel like if there's a space where you can so openly share, then they might feel a little more secure about it. If you can come up and say that, 'Well, satsang is just going to make me burn in hell,' and you can come to that space and share it, that means there's openness here to listen to these kind of perspectives also. And I understand how once you're in a particular mindset, how it can be looked at in that way.

'Why don't you—why don't you accept me?' like, you know? And I said—I'll say, 'I hate you so much for this,' you know? And I was like—I told her that, 'You made it easy for me to leave you.' And like, I didn't—I didn't really think about that at all. It's just like the adrenaline of just like coming to India and like all that. But then like when it came to call her and stuff like that, like that's when I got like a glimpse, like—like those words, maybe they did phase her, but like her love was the same. She still cared. And like, damn, like that just—that right there, you know? Like, I've done a lot, I put them through a lot. So, and like they loved me like even more. And that's crazy because like if someone told me that, 'I hate you,' like she'd always was like, 'Alright, yes, okay, okay, bye, like you go.' But just, I don't know, that right there, like it's unchanging, you know? It's like, and just to taste that, just like, 'Wow.' Like, because in my life right there, they're the only one kind of like how you do it, how here you go, this—nothing, you know?

That's very beautiful for parents. You know, when I was a kid—now, maybe—well, I just moved out and things like this, and there are times where I would just tell her anything, my mom, you know? And I feel like something later would say, 'But today you were too rude and you should not have said those things. Now she's going to be upset for days.' But inevitably after a few hours she'd call and say, 'So what did you eat?' It's something very beautiful, like to be able to keep that ego aside and not mind, because you know, you forgive your children for anything. So to be able to call and say—

But also like that love would—my—when I feel that love, like I remember it was like a few seconds, but it was enough. Like she was just saying all these things like, 'I cleaned your room, like you're not—' she was saying something like this, you know, 'I washed everything, it's good.' Like I could—I'm like—I like color-coordinated my stuff and like it has to be folded a special way. Oh yes, like this, yeah. It's like a weird thing, you know? And like she knows this and like sometimes she tries, but you know, I'm just like, 'Mom, leave it alone, don't bother me.' But when I look up to that part of my house and it screams and dies, well, if you need services. But I guess what I was saying is like, you know, she was saying that, you know, and like in her saying that, like, you know, your room and everything, and like my carpet, I like in a certain way, like, you know, and she's all these little details that she knows about. I don't know what that was. And like that provided a space. And I looked at my mom—I was FaceTiming her—and like nothing that—like I saw like her wrinkles, like I saw her, you know, like that—what that love, that tenderness, that detail that, you know, like it just washed away any concept that—not concept, but just like whatever that frustration or resentment, whatever it was for that moment, and like it was just gone, you know? And I got to see like my mom's like gray hairs coming in and like a wrinkle and like—I don't know, no one—like her teeth, like she has this one thing that's kind of messed up. Love you, Mom. But I don't know, that right there, like, you know, love just like won that moment. And I got to like see my mom. And then she was saying all this stuff like, 'Don't listen to me, just come back,' and stuff like that, but it was just—I was just seeing her, you know? And like even her sadness and like just how much she cared about me. Like, no, no. So I guess to anyone, like, just you can look—I didn't know like this type of seeing, you know? Because then I was just seeing her. And it's really cool because then like when you get kind of a glimpse like that, then like you can look at yourself like that too, which is something that's like being revealed here. But yeah, thank you.

Beautifully. How is it? You okay? Namaste.

Namaste, Father. I see Namaste in Melissa, the sangha, and everyone. And God bless everyone in this. And first, a lovely time to meet everyone here on this Skype too, and you to my heart, to everyone, those who are watching and those who are at home with love in canvas. And Father, as you—as you were talking on this family issues and parental things, I also being a mother, and I've got two older children and one is the little one which you have seen, and she's such a wonderful girl and beautiful in her heart. Maybe I'll share something here. I can't hear you.

I'm not saying anything. Okay.

My sharing in my family's island—I would—I was lonely, but while hearing everyone talking on this, it's getting very to my heart here. That when you say and pull your—pull your attachments from your older children, it's like when my older daughter finished uni, she was only seventeen and she was at home for three months doing nothing. And everyone would say, 'What's your daughter doing?' I said, 'Nothing, just blissfully and softly,' because I knew she will find—it's hard to find a job or whatever. And I did, but in each—

My sharing in my family's island... I was lonely, but while hearing everyone talking, this is getting very close to my heart here. When you say pull your attachments from your older children, it's like when my older daughter finished uni, she was only 17 and she was at home for three months doing nothing. Everyone would say, 'What's your daughter doing?' I said, 'Nothing.' Just peacefully and softly, because I knew she would find it hard to find a job or whatever. And I did, but in hopelessness, I think I just accepted it. Then she found a job, but she wasn't interested in the job. She wasn't interested in all this worldly stuff. Her mind was always somewhere else. She was more deeply into this awakening, and she could say to me that these things are not where I belong. But she said, 'If you want me to work, I'll work for money or something.' I felt so strongly here, 'If I'm sending you for work and money, I shouldn't be doing this because my parents didn't do this.' I don't know where this thing is coming from.

Then I looked at it and questioned a little deeper. Because my father allowed us to study for pleasure, not for money. My choice was that as a child. But then when it comes from here first, I said, 'Oh my God, what do I do?' And then I didn't say anything, I just let it be. Then we started with all this awakening thing in ourselves. You can only see the way it will come clear to you. Whatever you do in the world, you can have some experience. The first thing is when you say these things are right and wrong, or when do you know? I know my real responsibility is finished. I'm not here to go and get married or something, but it is a choice, whatever I say. But now the daughter's life is very different. The one which is with me, I have no boundaries, but she's very close with me. How do you let her wings try to spread? What do you do? This is like something I have never asked; it's stayed in my heart. It's good this time I can share this and I get some wisdom on what to do.

Actually, it's very good. There we have the parental perspective also coming, because so far we heard the child's perspective of those coming to satsang. But we have parents also coming to satsang, and it's very good that you share that there can be some fear about our daughter's life and how it's going and how to guide them properly. The best thing, actually—this might sound a little general, but it really is the truth at the root of what we want to say—the best thing, whether you're a child or you're a parent, is to come to the realization of the Self and come to the end of this apparent suffering. Because nobody who really loves you wants to see you suffer in any way. So the best thing we can do for the world, the best thing we can do for our family, is to come to the realization of the Self. Because it is only in the realization of the Self which is the true end of this apparent suffering.

Like this, you will also find that there is no right or wrong way in any relationship, actually. It's all very dynamic. There is no set template as to how to be a good parent or how to be a good child. If there was, then that book would be like a bestseller, you know? Everybody would just buy that, follow that, and everybody would have great relationships. But it doesn't work that way. But what we can rely on is our own intuitive sense. We've also discussed many times about the difference between the mind, the ego tendency, and the heart or the intuitive presence which can also guide us in these things. So we can rely on that and follow what our intuition is telling us. And then you will find that usually the intuitive presence leads us to more peace, more happiness. So this voice of our heart we can trust.

But more importantly, the first part: as you come to the realization of the Self, then your very presence will bless all those around you. And they will be happy that you have come to the end of your suffering. That's what they really want. Like your dad said, 'Okay, now you are saying that this is giving me happiness. Now don't come back midway and say no, no, it didn't work.' It was sort of a challenge, you know? 'You just go see if you've checked it out, and if you say that it gives you happiness and peace of mind, then fine.' I found it very beautiful what your mom said, right? 'You go back and let us see Jesus in your eyes.' It's a beautiful thing. Everyone is here and thirsting to see God. Actually, everyone is asking to see God. And when you discover yourself, you find out what you are, then you come to your unassociated being. Then the world flocks to you because they're thirsting to see God. So let them get the presence of God, let them get the experience of God through your form. That is very much a possibility after the discovery of the Self.

Here we looked at the generation gaps, we talked about a lot of our differences, and we have cleared that out. But this aspect which you said, 'see God'... I think while my progress is very slow, she is in a faster process because she hasn't had all these tangles and sufferings I came through. I find this is why she has no attention with this world and she has no desire of this world like all the others. The parents coming through and going to India, I'm lucky in a sense. And then if I ask her to go somewhere to India, even to Bangalore and stay some time there, or to a Buddhist sangha, even more years ago... this is where the question comes. 'No, you go first. You do yours first.' This is where we have a little bit of... I don't know what to do there. Maybe she is thinking that if I come out, then she says that it's a clear pathway, or it's something I'm blocking here. I don't know what's happening there. This energy is a little bit strong in me.

And then sometimes the mind runs, 'Oh, she should get married' and all these kinds of things. Like this role-playing game plays in the mind. But then I question that, I challenge that almost every time it comes. That's okay, but I know it keeps on challenging me. So do I let her progress the way it's happening, or do I give her encouragement in this area? What do I do?

Yes, yes, of course. You see yourself, but because she's not burdened with so much conditioning, she seems to be in the realization of the Self in double-quick time. So we must always encourage that. We must always encourage that.

But then I tell her to work. Now she is working for safety and survival. So I feel a little bit challenged there and guilty because of me she's gone to work.

If she feels that she wants to help you, there is nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. If she has work because she is financially supporting the rest of her family, it cannot get in the way of her realization of the Self. Work is not in contradiction with the search for the truth. And sometimes life puts us in these situations where you have to undergo these things and transcend them. So if life has created a certain circumstance, then we must not fight with it. You must allow it to move the way it is moving. And maybe tomorrow circumstances are different and she can devote more time to this.

Okay, yeah. That's the kind of thing I felt intuitively. Let her keep her life balanced, even this working to inner awakening. Whenever the emotions or some challenges come, I ask her to look into it. But she's good now. I mean, I don't have to ask; she does it all by herself. And she'll come and tell me what the mind was doing, and sometimes we have a good laugh out of this. My own request constantly was to keep it balanced, you know? In case if you come all the way here, if I can't find you to come but can't find the end of it, then I don't know how we'll come back in the world. So like for me to get in the world, it's a little bit difficult at this stage. But for her, I said stay in balance. Make your living in all the other areas, like friends, social life, a little bit of working. So it's not just like what I'm doing. It feels good and open. Pranam. It feels clear.

I think other parents go through this at the stage when children either go through this part of life or the other part of life. We think, 'Which is what? Which is right?' And I did have that strongly sometimes. So it's clear. Thanks to whoever brought this topic.

Very good. Very happy we shared like this. Also know that this life is supremely intelligent, although it might seem to be random to the mind. And the mind is saying you must get a control over your lives, but when we look back, we see that there's such a beautiful way in which everything unfolds. Even this so-called spiritual journey and the meeting, our meeting with the Master, unfolds in such a beautiful way that no mind could have planned it that way. So if it is intelligent enough to do these things, then it is also intelligent enough to manage every other aspect of life. Whatever is needed will be done. And with our neutrality—neither of action nor of inaction, but in this simple neutrality of allowing either action or inaction to happen through us, but not buying into any concepts, into many mental ideas of how this life should be—you will find that everything continues to unfold with beautiful grace. And sometimes it tastes like strong medicine, that is true. But strong medicine is also good for us.

Yes, it's a deeper wisdom inside. Sometimes I see from my daughter's point of view that she has come for this awakening in this life and she is never driven into the world. She went to uni at a very young age. I mean, she came out with a medal from her course, and it was like all surprising for me. But I know deep inside this is Divine who's doing it. And I know it and she knows it too. Meeting this Guru at his feet in this very young age is always a gift. So as far as the parents, really our challenge with our children, I think we shouldn't worry and we should leave it in God's hand because He does the mighty things. Then we can do it. We worry for nothing, and our worry just hinders their life. I mean, that you experience. She is 20 years old now and I feel relaxed now. Maybe I wouldn't have been if I hadn't been under your guidance.

A lot of everyone said it helped a lot because there are so many areas I was questioning. When children grow up in these Western countries, there is just this worldly way to live. And then all this worldly life experience, you know, boyfriends if there are girls, or the partner, and then the family would encourage them or associate with the families to come and find a relationship, you know, the Hindu style. So it's all these kinds of things still going on here. How do you have to keep a boundary and separate from there? We had to work on this. This is why it's a little bit of a challenge for us to say no to what is our actual value and where we were headed. So soul-searching was really deep inside and it gets easy on the path. Thank you very much, Father, on this topic. But there is something I try to put on my own self.

Shivani first, then me. Just one moment. Shivani's mother, my problem is... this is my mind probably all the time. I know I can see myself for two lives, but I'm always caught into this. I don't know why I'm suffering so much. Whenever someone is talking on the issues of relationship, relationship issues swing all inside so deeply and it twists my stomach and guts in every way inside. I don't know, the energy runs. I don't know how to cry anymore. It has been...

Shivani first, then Madam. Just one moment. Yeah, yeah.

She won't come, Mother. My problem is, and this is my mind probably all the time, I know I can see myself for two lives, but I'm always caught into this. I don't know why I'm suffering so much. Whenever someone is talking on the issues of relationship, and relationship issues, it swings all inside so deeply and it twists my stomach and guts in every way inside. I don't know, the energy runs. I don't know how to cry anymore. It has been going for twenty years, Father. But before, okay, it was like all the struggles and challenges, but now in this awakening, when I see these are only energies, but these energies make me very sick. I'm always like sick. I can't be anymore on this topic of relationships.

It's okay. It's good you expose it in satsang. And as you're coming to the discovery of yourself, this seeming button that gets pressed will start to dissolve more and more.

But it's not happening, that one. And I'm complaining or bringing this up all the time for calmness, but I didn't know how to exactly... it's like it's very hard. If this pinches my stomach, and then my nose gets blocked and my ears get logged in, and I'm worried about people, what they have said. Through these challenges of relationship, some people said, you know, like black magic they have done only. So this is where, Prabhu, I get terrified to move. And horrible things have happened in the past, but all this way, I can see that God was bigger than this thing. And the mind brings all the stories which are happening, which haven't happened, and then keeps twisting around, which is tying in my head all the time. How do you clear that? Do I do... I don't know.

There will come a time where you will be completely open even to this experience, this form of experience, and there will be no fear about it. Because as you are discovering yourself to be this consciousness and that awareness which is aware even of this consciousness, then you will not resist even both extremes. And as the fear goes from this completely, then you will find that it loses whatever power it has. But as long as there is this expectation that 'I have been coming to satsang, now it should go, now it should go, why is it still not going?' you see, in that itself it gets energized again. Because suddenly the fear gets so complicated that... and I know it's not a pleasant experience. It's not something that you enjoy experiencing. And yet the realization of what you are, that must always be primary. And the byproducts, which are energetic, whatever their source might be, these afflictions cannot last as you remain as the Self. Even if something was to last, actually, then you will find that it is nothing for you. You won't even care about it at all. One day you will love it. Even this you will love it. Your own energetic afflictions also you will love it.

I want to look on, to smile with all these things. Okay, my dear. I mean, when I get into the space that when the thought comes in, it takes into a different engine. And then I know these thoughts are floating somewhere there, but underneath there is a base energy which is so scared of something, right? It's like that. And that's why it has no relationship now, no trust left with anybody. And it's kind of... it's very monkey. And that's the one I cannot touch; it's just too frightened. I was driving today coming home and it started coming up, and then I felt like if I can hold it for two seconds, can I just stop talking? Oh yeah, but I still have to release it. But then by the time I came here, I think I was really frustrated kind of, and it didn't show up. It just squats inside now. Good indeed, this was coming up. I realized it when I was like nineteen, eighteen years ago, and no one was understanding me, and I couldn't understand myself either way. Everything was just dropped out of my life all of a sudden, and this energy was so strong. I used to get really... that's it. And I used to cry a lot and I wanted to get out of everything, and nothing was getting out of me. So, but there is no world here left, and this energy is still inside. So help me, I get to release now, or what to do?

It is a good thing. So much as you are coming to this place of becoming nobody, this will also dissolve. Dissolve in the sense that 'something happened to me in the past,' 'these are the things that were done to me,' 'this was unfair,' 'my family didn't understand me'—all of these things that they're dropping, then along with the dropping of that will also be the dropping of this energy. Sometimes energy might just remain as some sort of a remnant of all the things that happened, but even that will not last in the light of your own seeing of what you are. So don't be in a hurry to push this energy out or for it to be the end of it. You yourself say that you were eighteen, nineteen when it started. So let that play out how it is meant to. You stay with what we are here for, which is the discovery of yourself. And as you settle into the discovery of that, then you will find that you are not so bothered by these energies that they themselves will dissolve more.

Yeah, but that's the problem. I get stuck in this dark as a soul and heat. Two minutes, three minutes, even seven minutes having wind in the sun, talk to Ram, and then this thought will take me back. And then ending the leaks in months in order table, some concepts of the stories would be running in my head and running in and away from here. And then I'm just like on a superficial level only. So the deeper level I haven't touched. This is what had been going on for this whole year.

Yes, you cannot go from what you are because you cannot leave the truth of what you are. You cannot get stuck actually by anything which is appearing or disappearing. And you come into satsang very regularly. I don't see you going, getting distracted for months or something like this. I see you often in satsang, which is good enough.

Yeah, I love you. You know that this on top, on top side is just too... but not it. It promised that call for myself sometimes. I get... I'll get you next time. I say if you're feeling this track at you, because the movie... we've spoken about this earlier actually, with the more attention we give to this aspect and 'how do I fix it, when will it go,' the more energy it gets.

Is there any way like you can help me to uncover it, uncover it out and see actually what is it which is just flying a plane up, winner, and costing so much attention there? So like once you know, I mean, how do you say it in like aluminum counseling thing is just go to the coin, see what is what, this ten energies in packet and resolve it, over, game over. I don't know. So that's probably on my own I can't do it. And I find it this is my challenge at the moment, and it has been for hallelujah. And if I don't do that, then it goes to my... now then for the aches and pains in the suffering, it's more so. Iron fits the cyclic perfectly.

So, you know, I was beginning simply. It is to come to the discovery of your infinite being. I can sign that this energetic affliction is nothing for the infinity. Now, that which seemingly afflicts you in this way, it wants that attention. It wants that seeing, 'Okay, what is it and how can we look into it?' And it wants that someone to run from that, someone to run from that. And those we put in the spotlight and say, 'Let's check what is happening over there.' It wants additional attention, and it gets energized by this attention. That's why I'm not supplying it like that.

Once we have done it, then I won't be doing this and this energy won't be having this attention. Because that's where this way I get suffocated in it, or that way I get attached. We do that way, I play with it too and I give that attention, and then it keeps trying to... how do I break that attention? It's just as I can see very clear exactly what you're saying, but it's very difficult for me to do it on my own.

Okay, maybe we have a chat. Maybe we have a chat which is one-on-one that we see what to do this.

Yeah, it will be really, really beautiful because it's something we're probably like... I don't like to discuss some how... sorry. It will be so beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Okay, this is the Q. How will I contact your body? We can be in touch on Facebook or something. There is no reason to contact. Okay, okay. Take everyone. You think you like this? Let's see. They still want to come up. I hear Shivani and Mukti also wanted to come. So Shivani can come first. People, hi.

Can you hear? Because I haven't got a microphone on my head. I'm just wondering if you can hear.

Yes, yes, yes. Low, yeah. Okay, yes. Now you're on mute. Now somehow you're on mute. Go to unmute and start again.

Yeah, can you hear me now? Yes, yes. Hello, yes. Wait, Ananta, I said maybe I'll put it off for another day because I feel pretty heavy and it might be a long answer. I have no idea what to do. So I'm right, this is Laura. Okay, all right. I said I might do this another day because I'm feeling quite heavy and it will probably be a long drawn-out process. So maybe, oh yeah, come back. Just wanted to let you know I'll come back. Something else, I mean, something is very heavy.

Yeah, just... yeah. I... I was just saying I'll come back tomorrow and do it because I just feel heavy and it'll be long, it'll be long. Can you hear me? I hope you heard what I said. I hope you heard part of the trigger.

I don't know. Is this sad last night? I don't know what it is, Father. Just some, just some energy. I don't know what it is. It's just heavy. But yeah, I keep, I keep avoiding. That's why I asked. But I just feel like it's going to be long.

Yeah. When you say... is it like, you know how it used to be, that sort of energy? Or what is it? Blurriness and confusion like that?

Yeah, I just... yeah, yeah. And like I noticed something that's happened on a night last night when everyone was laughing, no one's happy in this feeling of like just not being able to snap out of it, not being able to... yeah. And just like, just feeling like it's this, that the happiness makes it worse. Like it just... I don't know. I felt just... yeah, it's going to be long, so I think I'm like to come back another day.

Okay, we can try to talk after the broadcast to the world if you have time with you. Okay. First Mukti, then Adams. Dear Betty, serving the night participant 932 lat. Okay, you see how it goes. What we can tell, I haven't seen you for many days.

Hi, Father. Hi. Yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely. Nice to see your face in time. Oh, let's give you some Namaste. Yeah, actually, I have an idea what I'm going to say, but I don't know. I actually have this thing in my head I wanted to talk to you about, and that's like self-things, like the sticky things, whatever. And that's like... huh.

Last one. What? Which part? Are you hearing me?

Yes. Now is it okay? The sticky things, self-inquiry and like awareness. Like what though to like... that's kind of, I don't know how to see it. Yeah, like... yeah, no, no. Self-inquiry and awareness. Awareness, yeah. Like, like remember how you said like, shape my brain? Like the truth. Like I know how to articulate stuff, probably why I'm failing all my classes. You're going to speak you with this much stuff. Yeah, it's like this con me like anyone else. I know it's happening. Like it's so weird. Like, yeah, I would drink anyways to hear you speak. Thank you. There's some sense of confusion about self-inquiry and awareness, which the truth like that, please don't.

Yeah, okay. And I'm against assigned to seeing like whole side, like awareness doesn't mean like I can't see it. Like what is it? Like, you know, like another patient of inquiry, like acting like different people. Oh, how do you self-inquire? You know, and just like seeing like science inquiry like on the train and like, oh my god, entire ready to get it or something like that. Without this body, are you suffering in any way? Like, you know, there is in that sense of suffering like a... used to be, maybe not right now. I mean, there's also stirring right now. And is there a sense that you are okay, you're like an individual entity, or does it feel...

Like another pattern of inquiry, like acting like different people. Oh, how do you self-inquire, you know? And just like seeing like science inquiry, like on the train and like, oh my god, am I ready to get it or something? Like, yeah, without this body, are you suffering in any way? It feels, you know, there is in that sense of suffering like a... you used to be, may not know right now. I mean, there's also stirring right now. And is there a sense that you are okay, you're like an individual entity, or does it feel more free and open, that no resistance to anything that is arising? Do you find yourself with mystic lies, or do you find yourselves just open to whatever is arising in life? The second one now, sorry, yeah. And if we were to just look together at this self-inquiry question, who are you? Then what feels like it is? It matters. This is like, sometimes you feel like I'm located somewhere inside here. Is that, you know, like being okay? Um, okay, let's work with that.

So you see, if you feel like, "I'm located with my head or somewhere here, here somewhere," and who is watching that location? Who sees that? Is that also located somewhere? Suppose I was to say, "I have located in my heart." For you to say that, you must be seeing it. There is a sense of something which is located within the heart area. Now, where is the seeing of it? Where is that located?

I can't say anything about it. I can't actually say anything about this seeing, and yet it is there.

Is it? It's simpler, actually. Simpler. Maybe we are making it complicated by what we are saying, but it's actually very simple.

Like when you're saying it, like my mind, it comes with like, in my mind, like I don't like it. Turn again, energy here, like in my head area. Like, yeah, I think I see the... the plow is a fly here, so I see it.

There must be a seeing of it for me to be able to say that there is a fly, isn't it? Maybe as we say that, "I see that I seem to be located somewhere," there must be a seeing of that, a perceiving of that, isn't it? Any sensation, you see? Those energies of fixing, like is love something like this? All of this is seen, isn't it? It's perceived. It's still getting abstract, too complicated. So what we do is we make it even simpler. If you've heard this before, but maybe together we can taste it like this: Can you try to stop being now?

Try to stop being? I can't stop being. I'm sorry, what? So this being, it can't be stopped. This presence which is here, it is space-like, a presence. Oh, I don't know what's going on with the situation with school now. Oh, I mean, like my parents make me go. I'm at my classes. I don't really do the work. I just kind of sit there and just... I don't really understand anything. Oh yeah, but I remember that you wouldn't know. I'm on break and you... a lot of this is the girlfriend a bit now. Wait, sorry, it's kind of coming in and out, it's getting laggy. So now you just froze. School started again, but now are you able to experience myself? Yeah.

Well, so what I was saying is that will you be able to come back to satsang more often now?

I'm gonna try to come back more definitely, yeah. I will. Your face in the fans... oh, this is good.

If you could come more often, then you don't have to do anything at all and everything will happen on its own.

Okay. Can I say hi to Mikey? I know my friends actually from here, but they were there to India. Very good. Feed me... wait, froze again. Yeah, huh. Okay, hi. Hello. Hi. So good to see you.

So good to see you too. Yes, yes, keep coming to satsang. Finally, we hear your voice. Oh, years, 200 years for this. So nice. Yeah, we had not... it was you talking. How's everything in New York? Good? Okay.

My brother actually just came, like, he could hear everything you're saying. Yeah, because you're sleeping, so sorry. Yeah, I think all good things though. You're saying very guys, yes, lovely.

Hey, good, my dear. Happy to see you too. But we wrestle too much with concepts. If any of this... don't make everything too heavy along with minds of space to be covered. That's not... everything will be very obvious to you.

Like from my mind, from remember, I'm really, really holding on to these things instead of just like letting them out anyway. I guess because I could wait like that. Oh yeah, love you very much. I wanted to go, want to thank you. You must do, Father. Did you want to do this? It was a data plan trap. It was a bit of a lemon. Why don't you want to go to the ban? Roll on, Lambros backless. Oh, let's check with you ever because people as fictitious position. A very happy, very happy anticipation prevent to the fish or time for the militia convenience of it everything. No, Maharishi's told you, idle uncertain a div that music daughter to school already. Okay, hey salt, I'm very let's get it off the back door. It is off the back door. Goodbye. I so appreciate off with you another vacation. Islamic traditions of Italy, Turkey. Good to... a yawn and Ocampo really emotional. Buddha vacation scary and low. She has no fortune in ski vacations as already taught me. Yes, beautiful. What we go to week? Oh, that is connected. It's on please. No sound, Father.

Hello again. Sorry.

And yes, it's a story, but it's a very alive story and there's also a lot it seems to be attached to it. And in particular, the reason I want to say it out to everybody is because it is shame. What shame? And when we were talking about karmas, I almost got the toy, it's like burning, burning, burning. Maybe not really burning now, but I still feel like it needs to come and I'm just tired of the story. I just want to put this story down. If the energy stays, then that's okay. I just really deserve with the story serving nothing and it's never very, very good. But now it means... so I some know and some don't, but I have a daughter called Grace Christie. And that going on home with couple weeks, then the most powerful outside being able to spend time ago. I think being in Rishikesh for so long and here, use a lot of yes, more openness filled it with emotions that come and not to hide anymore. And then yes, oh, going home feeling this immense love, this innocent kind of boundless admiration and love that she holds for me as a dad just completely very brutal. It just completely knocked me over. And the story is that when Grace's mom, Hannah, it was really relationship and it was very turbulent and there's a lot of, I care, negative tendencies, control, and just so much expectation and so much rejection and how things should be end very well at all. Shortly thereafter, I found out I was going to be it up with another baby. I think in that period there was a lot of anger and I can see that it was anger at myself thinking, "How could I let this happen?" And anger towards Hannah. It was kind of the same. It was easier to project. It was an anger at life. And maybe to quite a good job of hiding from marketing, I kind of went off on a bit of a bender and partied the wall and Fridays and then, you know, came clay like, "Okay, this is about something, get ready here, awaken zero." And so I felt like I picked up the image of being a god. I can pick took this, you know, how should I behave so everybody dies it looks like I'm really up for this. But I somehow left the emotional door closed. Like I just can't really... I don't know, I wasn't consciously really, but that's what happened. And then when Grace came into the world, it was probably the most stressful day of my life. It's like so much happened that even now where I really do see and appreciate and so much gratitude for everything that happens and has happened, still I guess I look at anything, "Wow, really?" You know, in one day and sort of difficult to the soul. Yeah, well, yeah, there was a really not good energy between me and Hannah. So understandably I can see now she didn't want me that well after the birth basically, which completely went against my image of what I wanted it to look like, you know, first of the newest kind of thing. And I was so angry. Like, you know, they almost threw me out of the hospital of Lange groups. And the best feeling of being an outsider, this feeling of like, "Yes, okay, you know, this is how it is, but you know, you're not really going to be involved and not involved now." And all of this comes, they came up. And also like all I was coming over there and it was beautifully not sentiment. My family was going some weird thing where we just weren't close and I would say anyway this that same day, my grandma died. And actually so super excited about getting to meet facing things and also as you know, and my mom super excited as well. And I was been I'd say close, super close kin along compacted maybe my sister or my dad, not like in there particularly close away, which is that's how it is. And so my mom wasn't there because she was at the hospital with my grandma. My grandma wasn't going, she was really ill and everybody was worried. And I'm just on my own, like feeling like a complete outsider, just feeling confused and angry and lost and not wanting to show it because, you know, too proud I guess. So that's the story. And what it didn't end there because this anger and this sense, this feeling like I'm an outsider in my own daughter's life continued and continued and continued and it's just been horrible. If you hold on, she's just ten for. And when I went back and spent some time with having probably been out of the country about the same amount of time, laughing in the country for the past, I don't know, 12 months or 18 months, you know, mr. Grewal journey just realizing that like all this stuff is on my end of the deal and I'm here and there's none of it. I could just love and accept anything. It's like I'm always creating this story about what's not right and I'm doing it because I'm just pushing something away and I don't know what hit it. You've got face to face with news not traditional of this is really started along water. Yeah, also like the way that your hair changes as well, Lincoln in the absence of the story that's like what's here and what's here is meaner. And then you are on again like out life and I got again like, "Okay, so you'll be doing sweet you did this, yeah, like and you put this wall up and I'm not bothered about me but that's not fair, like that's really not come back on." Yeah, she's like I don't say it cut it explicitly as I said it, but we had words with you, yeah, and so go that to you right? Yeah, he's very competent. We have been, you know, we'll also we have received there, you know, the hero and comfortable and fight with God and we have all-out argument with him. There's been so much gratitude. I, uh, thank you God, thank you. So now it's like, "Yeah, you know, cures okay, long forgotten, I that's not cool, you ain't get back again." Oh yeah, yeah, the boys channel got back with all our subscribers, everything's it's ticket baby. We've created another channel and completely hopeless ever get we got man now we're three channel f28 how to borrow this or actually suck it has got it is a lot about to ready whistle ooh. Yeah, and I can feel that what happens is when I'm when we're together lightly, it was just this tendency to kind of tune out of what's actually here and tune in to the story. And also I have to say that it's not all bad news because it's really old me now because when I've gone back, everybody involved around is inviting me to just drop all that and just them. So that's why I don't even want to go again so much into the story and as they've also let that happen.

Yeah, if I told you just to hold on to the excuses of the story as everybody else, it was what's over it or pipe it by. The only one who had all those experiences in the Pacific in straw. And I think the strongest thing has been shame. Like she's not understanding why, why would anybody want a wall between them in own child? And just somehow not fully thousands of what me not to throw myself into that look. So you feel like because you were holding resentment against of other maybe others, it fills the wall. It is good that you come to this realization. Lectures born this utila that age where she loves you unconditionally because...

All those experiences in the past were in store, and I think the strongest thing has been a shame, like she's not understanding why. Why would anybody want a wall between them and their own child? And just somehow not fully trusting what led me not to throw myself into that.

So you feel like because you were holding resentment against others, maybe it built a wall. It is good that you come to this realization. She is born with this until that age where she loves you unconditionally because if it went on like this, one of the biases occurs that she would also have concepts about you. It's beautiful grace that is happening at the right time; otherwise, you pick up a lot of debt having to deal with a lot of past trends. You say very nicely there is only play on the surface, so she is just open. And the recognition is very beautiful that you drop the resistance now. If you're seeing it, the seeing of it is the most important step of the dropping of it because there was a time for a while where it seemed completely justified to hold on to the story. Now that you see it so clearly, that 'I've been holding on to these separate ideas,' the signal is that it loses energy every time we see it with objectivity. It's just a story; it's not fresh. It's not about now. Life is creating physical selves with everyone else, and it seems to be now. We don't need to be holding on to some idea of the story. And you are the one who is on a bit of a spiritual journey; they are acting more spiritual with you, like a little puppy. The way life plays out so beautifully, everyone else is being able to come up with it. If you were seeing it, I see only one species. I'm very happy for the child that you see it every night. Beautiful body until she's older; this is about this time—four, five, six—where they pick up concepts and become conditioned. It's like she has a super brain and she already got love, not the concept. She just saw beautiful.

Hmm. I can't even say forgiveness. Forgiveness is two-sided. It's that she accepts me exactly as I am. Also, what is happening with you, I feel very lucky to have you at the satsang. And you also drop all ideas on what snaps the collective unconscious to get a confession of me wanting to learn. So blessed to have you at the satsang. She loves you, and to me, the way in which it is also placed, say good only the idea of the past. Yeah, they were using, yes, I guess just to stay.

And one thing was that when this seeing came, like, oh my god, then this doer appeared which was also like... I felt like maybe that was the mind taking some emotion. It just needed to come and it felt like it's not play. And going, 'Had I... you know, you must do this, you must do this, maybe you should do this.' And like, I guess I just got a little bit... and I like it to show how I'm sneaking that could be like to take that and to make something out of it and say, 'Yeah, like this is having been done.' And I looked at that and it was pretty key particularly to do that. I can keep in touch while I'm here, like phone or FaceTime. At that age, it is just like too much to be a museum and enough. So I realized, why did I never write her a letter? But I just didn't think. And so something came again: 'I'm gonna write a letter every week.' And we had in our life, I guess something just came where I was like, there's no reason why that can't come spontaneously. So what I want to offer up is the doer that says, 'I want it to be like this,' but also any reason why not, you know? Anything that's still here that would maybe come in to resist just fully being in both roles, kind of thing. Like, I come forward here now, I'm probably here, this is it for me, this, you know, it's got to be this. But at the same time, I can see there's no conflict. Like, there's no reason why that can't also... some of the theories, anything that's resisting that side of it, that's really what I surrender.

The mind's field or tendency to be in the mind's ideas or dichotomy which we live in—that spirituality is here but completely excludes this time—we will put the work in. This is good because you spotted the mind trying to make a doer out of this issue, and it will also try to make a non-doer out of you. So you say, 'Don't be a doer,' which means that you must not do. That's also doing. But neither do nor not do; just open it to reality. See that everything will appear very dutifully. In fact, you will find that there's a lot more time. The mind is always rushing all through; it feels like, 'I have no time.' Now when you drop the rush, you find there is a lot more time. Empty, but it seems like, 'Wow, there's so much time.' It cannot also use the excuse that 'I can either be in form or write her a letter.' Physically, I think there is so much time. Yeah, this is equal to the mind getting launched into the story, and all of these stories used to take so much time. Now that it's being dropped, there is time. And even when in interaction, you will find that whether it's flowing on its own, nothing is really crushed, nothing you're trying to prove, you find a lot more time. Experience it in every interaction that you have. It is not time to convince, it's more time to offer. If I'd like to achieve something, get control, we are able to fool ourselves. Who is good enough to feel whatever, or fit enough to feel like, 'I don't have all the right ideas'? I just saw how to do it. This keeps us fresh. Let me assure you about the doer. I have talked about this, that evidence becomes clearly something. This open heart is open to what will be. You will be fulfilling her, you will be experiencing the fear that referred to the shame of the field of the past.

This allegiance, this is actually like a real joy because I think for so long I felt more like a robot than a human being on this, you know, just over everything. Okay, and there's no feeling things. And so, yeah, just I guess this just goes to these sticky ones and like, home everything. And that is super, like a lot of conditioning in our mind. Yeah, and sometimes I just need to explain it as well, you know? I mean, it's just crazy, you don't have to explain it. And especially since that we wanted out, everything seems to be completely fine. Yeah, so thank you. So thanks, life, actually.

And the people around us surprise us with their maturity. If you feel like, 'I've been reading all these spiritual stones,' let's come to the time. Yes, these people, they don't think of satsang and they are already just so open in the moment. It's beautiful that yes, if we went any other way, we pick up a lot of spiritual concepts, also robotic in all the mighty ideas like awareness, consciousness. But if it's still something, it's love. The life is so beautiful that it stretches out. This is they are talking from a place without running from our bonds and being fearful about the future. Everything is very good. I am very happy also that in the midst of all this, you have surrendered most of the days. Something big is so distracted by all of this. It is almost one o'clock. Thank you all so very much for joining the satsang today. Satguru Mooji Ki Jai. Excuse these ideas, sorry about this long session, we went over time. We do that now. Please give my apologies to your family if they're upset. Thank you, thank you so much. So you can have to broadcast them.