Silent Retreat - Satsang 2, 7th Oct. 2016

I'm right here and I'm, I'm very much aware of it.

Very good. And there is a lot of energy. It's just energy. I don't want to label it. So energy is there. What is it doing to you in reality? Just happening. That which is aware that you are here, can that in any way be touched by this energy? And don't answer conceptually. Look and answer. Can you say it again? Yes. That which is aware even that I am here, this awareness, can it be touched by any energy? And we don't have to go with the right answer mentally, but we have to check and see how this can be touched by anything.

Oh, I need the time.

What would time do? How will time help? What is missing right now? What is missing? Nothing. Nothing. What's happening is that wave of energy, yes. But are you, why are you in the way? Loudly, in a quite heavy, heavy, yes. But are you inside the wave? No, I'm not. Is the wave hurting you? No. So let the wave be then. We are not inside it and it's not hurting you. What is the trouble? Just the idea that it should not be there is the resistance and it feeds it. Our resistive ideas to this energy just feed the energy further. Yes, but now you're saying that I am untouched by this energy, the reality of who I am. And we are no longer trying to help that one that doesn't exist. So we're only talking about the reality of who you are now.

Now suddenly I, I flew away. Yeah, you flew away. Yes, my mind, which means what, the mind, what happens? I certainly, I didn't hear what you say that.

Distraction. I said that this wave of energy, you say that that which is aware of everything, that is untouched by this wave. Now either you're believing yourself to be something which is touched by this wave, or you see that you are this witnessing itself in reality. Which one is it?

I must be the witnessing to be able to report about it.

Yes, but is this your inference or is this your direct experience right now? Is it?

I want to say it's my experience right now, but I thought I can't tell you right now it's my experience.

Okay, why? What is your age? Makes me very stressed. Don't worry about it. What is your experience? What is your direct experience?

I'm here. The wave is there.

Are you not aware of it? Yes. And that which is aware of it, how is the wave hurting that one? Nothing at all. Now if this one is you, this awareness, then you remain unhurt by it, isn't it? Isn't it so? Either you are untouched or you must be something else and not this awareness. What do you find when you look?

I'm this awareness.

Yes, this awareness. And it's untouched. You see? Is this not your direct experience right now? Yes, it's my direct experience. It is, yes, yes. So now you see that this is your direct experience. Now any wave can come and go. Can a direct experience change from this? No. Now how will you show me trouble then? Is it possible? It's impossible. If you wanted to create trouble now for yourself, what would you have to do? Believe my next thought. So next thought you would have, you would wait for some energy to come, yes, and you would wait for the interpretation of that energy, yes, and you say, 'Yes, this is true for me,' yes. And in that belief, then the pretense of suffering starts. Without this, can you suffer? I know, I know this so, so, so very well. Yes, so very well. But what is happening is that to know it just here doesn't help. So the more often we check like this, it is more helpful because what is happening is we believe the false for so long that when the truth is, we see the truth, then the mind still has the potential to create some doubt about it. Maybe it only happens like this when you're in satsang. Maybe it only works when Guru is there. These ideas can come and these doubts can come. That is why it's good to check over and over that the sun actually comes from the East and the belief that it rises from the West was false, really. Suppose that you had for 20 years someone has told you that this is, huh, somebody had told you this is. Now for 20 years you heard that. Then I come and say, somebody with credibility comes and says, 'No, no, this is in this form, this is.' And because I have credibility with you, there is some acceptance of that, you see. But after I go away, the mind still shows some doubt because I've believed for so long and so many people told me this is Maharaja, you see. So then the doubt can come and the belief can go back. So in the same way, because we believe for so long that I am a person, at moments of checking and the glimpse of the truth, you see, yes, so then what happens is the mind tries to make a conclusion out of it. So when you say 'I know this,' actually we are talking about a conclusion that we have made, you see. So throw away all conclusions and everything that you know that keep the freshness of the checking alive. You see, because it makes regret out of it, it makes you feel unworthy. 'Oh, I should know this by now, I should be done by this right now.' That is getting stronger and stronger exactly because you're feeding it. It's almost like a being, some kind of conception, conceptions about it, yes. So throw it all. Yes, so that mind thinks that, 'Okay, I have the right thought about it,' so right has increasing exactly. So we have to throw away all our conceptual knowing, even our most favorite of Advaita concepts, you see. And that keeps us alive in the checking right now. Where, what is my true position now? You see, we don't have to make notes about it. I never prepare for satsang. I was like, okay, just whatever is fresh. Have you spoken what needs to be checked can be checked instantly? You see, that is the power of the truth. A lie needs a lot of crutches of thoughts and beliefs. The truth is always available fresh for us. And this will not change whether you're sitting on the hot seat, whether you're outside, whether in your country, this does not change. But instead of quickly going with a thought about how it should be and what we should know by now, we should just keep that freshness and say, 'Yeah, let's check. Where am I truly in this? Who is suffering?' Exactly. So we can keep it alive like this and fresh like this. Then it will not feed our spiritual ego in a good or bad way. You see, all that, we don't want to make the ego bigger or smaller. You see, the victim spiritual ego is also a terrible one. 'I'm so unworthy, I'm so guilty.' Don't do the fact. All this is also spiritual ego actually, but it's the victim form of the spirit. Yes, indeed. You will not have an instant where the truth leaves you or that which you have seen now, that you as awareness remain untouched by all appearances. This will never change. It is always the case. Therefore, if there is still some suffering, it must be because of something false which is being released, including the false belief that 'I should be through this by now, I should know this by now.' Very good.

I had to share something else, a small thing today. The satsang this morning, initially it started the same thing, I started to cry. It was, and when I'm crying it's a kind of, it's beautiful. It's beautiful actually because it's a kind of opening I feel very, very strong. And then suddenly I became so sleepy. So I guess I went to sleep 10 times at least.

It's not uncommon and it was like, that's fine. That which is past is past, you see. Don't make your report card. Don't take your temperature. It's very important. The seeker identity relies a lot on this taking our temperature. We're constantly, every minute, 'How free am I? What is my state?' Is this helpful? This is not helpful, you see. And we make report cards. So we're constantly making medical reports about ourselves, about our spiritual search. Forget it.

And I think it's very important to have this interaction. It's very important. And I, you know, I have met you since two or three years and I have been as someone told me, I was a silent Buddha. Silent Buddha. I didn't, I haven't interacted so much and you know, the longer you keep quiet, it's difficult to come in. You can feel like that, yes. So now or never. So I came here.

Very good. Yes, you could. Thank you. Thank you. Come next one. Come fast, fast. Let's go. Okay.

Um, I just wanted to share some just what's happening. Just to check because I think it's partly like seeing how things are but also the mind's then coming in and making something maybe of it. So, um, I forgot what it was. It's basically around this idea of not having control, like and accepting this, this acceptance coming from, you know, seeing there's no, not so much seeing there's no person, like I don't feel like that's clear, but yeah, seeing there's no control. Like it's clear that there is no personal, it's not clear. It's I don't know. It's the mind's just not agreeing that that's clear or not. But it doesn't seem clear that there's no person. It doesn't seem clear but there's, it's clear that there's no control. Like thought is useless, like not one single thought.

But if there was a person, then the thought would be useful for that person, isn't it? The whole reason not to believe a thought is because it is speaking to a nobody. Okay. What would finding this person look like? What would you have to find to find this person? What would make you say, 'Yes, there is actually a person. Ananta is wrong'?

Well, I didn't think it like trying to like constant like this and um, like you said that is an actual physical, you know, like there's a body, there's this, there's that, but there's no physical thing. And it just keeps coming that thing of like you said to me before, you've explained this to me before, but it's like the person that really is just the thinking is the person. Like we think this is thinking is a person.

Okay. Thinking is what? Form energy. You see? So why does this thinking energy want something in this physical realm? What is it doing for that? Why? Because a person wants what? Wants relationship with...

Yeah, you know, like there's a body, there's this, there's that, but there's no physical thing. And it just keeps coming, that thing of like you said to me before—you've explained this to me before—but it's like the person that really is just the thinking is the person. Like we think this thinking is a person.

Okay, so thinking is what? From energy, yeah, you see. So why does this thinking energy want something in this physical realm? What is it doing for that? Why? Because a person wants what? Wants relationship, it wants money, it wants security, it wants health of the body, and it wants freedom, yeah. Now, if all that the person was there was an energy construct called thought, you see, and that would give it its reality, then why would the thought, which is just an energy construct just coming and going, why would it want any of these things? Makes sense, no?

No, I mean like experientially, like when you... because I never had thought of this person think. What there is, my person... like to me it kind of seemed like it, uh, nothing. No, it just seems like a weird thing to say anyway. Even like when I'm trying to, it's like I don't even know why I'm even thinking about this. Like, why do I even need to think about this? Um, but...

Well, thinking about it would be... but I know what you mean, yeah. Talk about contemplating it. Yeah, but you see, why is it important? This is very, very important. Why is it important to contemplate these things? Just a person thing, yeah, it is the blessing. I mean, why is it important? Because if you just operate in the blind belief that there is a person there, we have been operating like that, trying to feed this person all kinds of things that it has wanted, um, you see. And it is not what is that lasting peace that we have been looking for.

Well, I think maybe that I do say that there's no person because it's just like, yeah, um, they're just really... it's just thoughts. Like, yes, yeah, okay. They're not representing anyone, they're just thoughts which are coming and going, yeah. But when, like, when this idea of 'is there a person' started coming up, then the mind's saying, 'Okay, okay, so there has to be a person, like we're talking about this person thing, so let's see what it is.' It's just thought. It's just like the thoughts is the person. But before that, there wasn't like even an idea.

This is hard. It comes and it goes, yeah, isn't it? So how can it be that that could be a person? Yeah, it cannot be because when there is no thought, there is a witness. There is a witnessing of no thought, you see. But you cannot believe that this person is coming and going like that. There's no tangible entity behind that. There's nobody who's speaking these words. Okay, so...

Yeah, that's clear that it's just thought.

Yes, it's just thought. Yes. So if that is clear that the person has no tangible existence, you see, now then what is left? So person is out now. What is actually here?

Just, uh, it's like a sign, Guruji. Just some energy, some visual sayings.

So let's label all of that and say phenomena. Phenomena. Some phenomena is here now. That which is witnessing this phenomena, is that here or no?

Yeah.

Yeah. Now, that which witnesses this phenomena, is that phenomenal? Slowly, let's see how you would say. Either way, you would say that something is phenomenal if it has a particular attribute, if you can see... I am going... if you can see it, yes. Is there a witnessing or no?

Yeah, there is.

Now, is this witnessing also perceived phenomenally, as if it has some attribute?

I don't think so, because I can never see that. Um, we just know somehow. I don't know how.

Yes. Is it known by something apart from the witnessing itself? Who is coming to this knowing?

That's not... it's me that knows that I know. It's me that knows that I...

Yes. And you cannot find an attribute for this me.

You lost me.

No, no. You cannot find an attribute to this me. Good. Good. Now leave this me and become something else. Become phenomenal. Really, leave witnessing aside, yeah, and become phenomenal.

The only way it seems to happen, like, is that is thinking, basically.

Okay, thinking. Thinking is phenomena. If the witnessing goes away, then how would you know thinking is happening?

I know it's happening, but then somehow it seems to say for your next thought, then comment on it. Let's see. No, no, I'm sorry, what am I doing?

Yeah, but you're waiting for your next thought to come and then you report what you find. So when the thought comes, thinking is happening, yeah. What happens to the witnessing? That is what you're going to tell me.

You just say that, but... sorry, yeah. The 'but' is like it's saying 'but' something, like it's obvious. It's saying 'but' something.

Say like, no. So we're not again getting too involved in the content of what is seen. They're still remaining looking at the witnessing itself. Witnessing, witnessing itself. Is it okay? What happened to that because the thought came?

Nothing. But it's like two things are happening. Nothing's happening to it, but also this thing of like reporting that now I feel like this is happening as well.

So is this true that there is an 'I' which feels a certain way now? So to say the two things are happening: one is that the witnessing remains unchanged, but something is actually happening to me, means that you are both the witnessing and something else. What is this something else you are? The one that something is happening to. Which one is that one?

It's not really anything happening with anyone. It's just the thinking happening. That's what I'm saying. It's just something happening.

That something's happening to me, yes, that thought. That's it. Even if some energy is being experienced here, it's not being experienced by me. Nobody is suffering from anything. There is no sufferer.

So right now, like, okay, there's this like not wanting to believe or something happening right now. Like in this moment, there's some... and that's just thinking, that's just feeling, isn't it? It's just stuff.

What to do with them is allow your thoughts to come and go. Don't serve them tea. If it doesn't seem like that is happening and belief is going to them, you see, then what to do? Just to check like this, this pull it into your inquiry: What is it that I'm believing about myself? Who am I believing myself to be? Who am I? Same thing. Okay, yes.

Because right now it just keeps coming, like it's clear, then yeah, again it feels like, okay, because this thought is here and saying this, that it's a fact. Like it seems... I know it does not, but it's like this is a...

I know, because our habit is to believe these thoughts. So when the thought comes and speaks authoritatively and says the sky is pink and not blue, we end up buying it because it is speaking authoritatively and we're used to believing the false from it.

And also it's just this not wanting to be fried, like feeling like is what also is making go towards that. Because to, to like see it is like this fear is here basically, and it's like just not wanting to be scared.

It is actually the opposite. There is a fear of not believing what the mind is saying, yeah, because it can feel like it is too empty without that. Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah. It's like, so forget about the funerals. Because there's this fear also, attack the witnessing. This is another thing that happens about this. When you ask a question, it's like, like you know, I can see like it goes straight to like trying to think to answer that question. Yes, like then it goes... but even that is seen, isn't it? Yeah, even this movement of attention is witnessed before it went anywhere. Like it's a mental... it's waiting for some sort of mental, yes, because that is the habit. But even that is witnessed. Even in this process of trying to become mental, nothing happened to the witnessing, you see.

Thank you.

So does the witnessing have an urge to remain just as something, to not get involved? Does the witnessing have any urge at all? Okay, we'll come there in a while. Basics, yeah. Is the witnessing untouched or can it be affected by something?

It's untouched.

Sometimes. What is your position in relation to this? At what distance from the witnessing are you? What is happening now? Some resistance is coming or...

Yeah, so let it come.

Use that also. Don't try to push the resistance away. Use that.

But I can't answer because, okay, it seems like I can't answer.

Why?

Because the witnessing became the resistance. I just... it's taking the attention. It won't... the answer won't come.

But even this movement of attention is also witnessed, isn't it?

Yeah, I just don't want to answer unless I can see it really. And at the moment it's like...

Yeah, but you are seeing it clearly. There's no way you can avoid seeing this, actually. You are witnessing all of the resistance. You're putting it as simply as that, yeah, you see. So what is happening to the witnessing even if there is resistance?

Nothing, Father. But I want to say that completely, like without, you know, like experientially. Yeah, so sometimes when you ask, it's like this stuff going on. It seems like you can't say it in that moment.

But yes, but even in these moments, check if it is true that we can't see it. Even if this great turmoil of resistance energy, mind is blurry, everything is happening, you see. But what is happening to that which is aware of all of this? Let attention also go into that. It's okay, I am not saying fight with your attention. Let it go into the muck. What is happening? Did the witnessing become muck? No. So in what way did you get involved in that resistance? Either you are the witnessing or you are something that is witnessed. What is your truest position? Don't be in a rush to see. Of course I know that, but what is your truest position?

I want to know what this hesitation to say is, because there's a hesitation to say. You know, you have to say what the hesitation is. Very clear, yeah. Okay, just a hesitation to admit or something.

But is the hesitation just like a feeling not to sound arrogant, or a feeling of doubt whether I've actually seen it? It's a waiting for to see clearly, clearly, like yes. But how is it unclear? Just all the phenomena seems... you're able to say that phenomena because it is witnessed, no?

Yeah, so I don't know what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting for something.

I think this 'I' is which one now were you posing as? You see, I can tell you this is the one that is looking at witnessing as an experience, yeah, and it's looking as resistance is another experience. And though this one is that is pretending to decide between the two, you see, this one itself doesn't exist. It's a fallacy. So it's just another arising, yeah, action, kind of internal action. Shivani is not finding awareness and resistance. There is no Shivani. So if you're waiting for awareness to be in the hold of this non-existent entity, and for the non-existent entity to authoritatively say yes, that thing cannot happen. Yeah, this thing, this is certainly... way of putting that is actually waiting for a mental confirmation of what we are so clearly seeing already. Okay, here you go, certificate.

This is what I was going to say earlier, Father. This like surrender has happened because it seems like it's obvious that nothing is... there is no control. Okay, even this like you're talking to me now, whether or not it's, you know, here is like... because earlier it was clear, now it's not clear, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this stuff I really do carry around is which one? The one that is clear and now I'm not clear. Which one is that one?

Sometimes, like whatever the experience might be, like unless you are the witness of that, would you be even able to report that an experience is there? We also see that that which is aware of the experience remains unconcerned and untouched by the experience. Is this seen? This is seen. We also see that I primarily, even before I am, I am this witnessing, this awareness. I don't know. So we've seen that before even the sense that I am, it is clear that I is this witnessing itself. Is this part seen or no?

Sometimes, like whatever the experience might be, unless you are the witness of that, would you be even able to report that an experience is there? We also see that that which is aware of the experience remains unconcerned and untouched by the experience. Is this seen? This is seen. We also see that I primarily, even before I am 'I am', this witnessing, this awareness—I don't know. So we've seen that before even the sense that 'I am', it is clear that 'I' is this witnessing itself. Is this part seen? That's what you were talking about when you're saying, can you separate yourself from the witnessing and become part of something which is just appearing?

Thank you.

You can start completely fresh, please. I don't know what right now whatever your experience might be, you are aware of it. Are you not aware?

Yes.

What is your position with regards to this awareness?

I am this.

You are the coincidence. Can you not be this? With full effort, if you were to try, can you become unaware and just become a phenomenon? See what happened. You lost me again.

No, no.

Use the witnessing position for a minute. You see, I'll hold that place for you. Now you play as if you're a phenomenon. Don't witness. Can you do it? So if you cannot leave this witnessing, and you've seen that all these phenomena are always coming and going, constantly changing, but that which you are, this witnessing, remains untouched by it all—is this seen or no?

I don't know if this is why I can't say yes. I guess no. It's clear that I see everything.

Yeah, it's even clear that you're aware that you see everything. Yes, yes. Because maybe you are confusing that which I call the phenomenal perceiving as the primal witnessing. You see, you know the distinction between these two? Let me... perceiving is the functioning of Consciousness using the power of Maya to bring this phenomenal world to life. Objects in this, when there is attention available, phenomenal perceiving is going on. If there is no attention, then nothing is perceived. It's like the sleep state comes. When we talk about the primal witnessing, the capital 'Witnessing', we're talking about that which is aware even of the functioning of this phenomenal perceiving happening. Okay? So when I'm here talking about witnessing, it is that which knows even that this is what the senses are bringing. You're aware that you see right now. Sight is here, hearing is here, you see touch is here, smell is here. You're aware of these external-seeming objects. You're also perceiving internal-seeming objects like thoughts, memories, imagination. All this perceiving is going on. But that which is aware of this perceiving, what is happening to that one? Is it not you?

Yes.

How you know this?

Because I see it. What is it that you don't know then? That's all I'm saying. I don't know. I think, Father, it's just this habit of reporting like from here. This is that I feel like it's just that.

That's why I was saying earlier also that don't worry about what you figured out. Now, what is it that I am saying that you cannot check right now? How is that different? All I'm saying is that you're aware of the functioning of your senses and the functioning of all this perceiving. You're aware of it?

Yeah.

Now, is it possible for you to be unaware?

No. I was going to say only when I'm asleep, but then who would be aware that they're asleep? How do you know there is something called sleep?

Because I'm aware. I must be aware of it. I must be aware of it to sleep well. I know when I wake up and when I fall asleep, so I know.

Yes.

Just to see that I am able to authoritatively say that there is something called sleep state means it must be a direct experience. So this awareness, does it seem distinct from the reality of who you are? Is it separate from you? Don't worry about what you are admitting or not. What are you actually seeing is what I'm interested in. There is an awareness here, is it?

Yeah.

Do you find that your primary position is this awareness, or does it feel like you are something else or somebody else?

Recently it has been feeling like this. Right now, right now, what are you right now? You're here or no? You know this?

Yeah. So that which knows this, which one is that one?

It's not happening right now. I'm sorry, but nothing is meant to happen. I don't know why I can't say yes, because it doesn't feel like... you know, sometimes I want to come to my Father. It's you, you know. Look, it's clear like this. What feels like me now is like seen. It's like over there. Seeing is there. No, no, like what feels like now... yeah, well, I can't admit. And when it's seen, what it's like this here that feels like it's me is over there, and it's like seeing. That doesn't sound like some fancy experience. It's not important. It doesn't feel like me; it feels like something that I've seen to have that experience also right now. Now, in our ordinary life right now, in this moment where even you're feeling it's not happening, it is only that you are aware. You're aware that these words that were spoken, you're aware that there is a sense of existence here, you are aware of your own presence. Which one of these are not true?

Yeah, that's all we're saying. What else needs to happen? I don't know. Tomorrow. Okay, thank you.

Anyone? Yeah, of course.

Thank you. I don't come up very often. Yes, I don't come up much. I'm all sweaty, so I don't know what... if you... I don't have any really... I mean, tell me something which is true right now. The only thing that's true is that I'm very aware that I'm here. I don't know where I'm at, but I know I'm here because I'm perceiving everything.

Yeah. Is there something which is feeling like I still need to get somewhere or I'm not getting something?

No, it's just deepening.

What would deepening mean?

That just feels like Grace is taking the last bits of attachments away, you know, especially with self-consciousness and the body. And having to... you know, with all the intense pain and the tears came earlier, but I didn't identify. I didn't feel identified, but I felt the pain too. So it was trying to understand how that is, and just watching everything, just perceiving everything, and knowing that I'm looking from a different place.

Very good. So there can be a sense of compassion which comes for the pain that is here without us even picking up the idea that 'I am a sufferer'. So love can be directed towards pain. You're not to try and resist pain and push it away; you can direct love towards it and we can direct attention towards it also. There's no problem with that. We're not to resist it in any way if you're only not buying into the idea that there is somebody here individually that is a sufferer. Pain is experienced by Consciousness itself. That which I am, this is what it is experiencing itself to be right now. A question comes up: who's crying? Because it's just a body crying. Crying is also appearing. The pain can have this effect, you see. So is it just like a normal crying which is happening as a result of pain in the body?

I think it was just a release when you acknowledged that. It allowed me to acknowledge that there was pain, yes, and the tears came. It's just more of a relief.

Yes, yes. Because somewhere we might have the sense that the pain that is there, we must push it away or not.

I'm not pushing. I'm just allowing everything because that's why I'm here. So just letting everything dissolve.

Yeah, yeah. And in this allowing, even in this pain—this is what we were talking about earlier, you see—in this allowing, the pain is experienced but it is still not what we would call suffering because we are not picking up the idea of 'me-ness'.

Yeah, there's no story. I'm not giving it a story. I even found myself... one of the reasons why there was so much pain it was because I found myself at the Ganesha Temple. Oh yeah, but never thought that this body would have made it up there, but it wouldn't stop going. I don't know, it just happened. I'd say probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes to get up to the top, and then I went to the meditation room. I forgot to take my shoes off, I got in trouble, and you know, I stopped and rested on the way, but just something just was propelling me there. And then I came back and came straight here, and then it was just too much for the feet. So, but I'm just allowing all of that to happen to you and just whatever needs to happen for the feet is happening.

Really good. This is it. No, this is... these are the times where I say when the rubber hits the road, it's really hitting the road. With pain, it can be this sort of pain; it can be other things which happen, you see. But they give you so much opportunity to check here also. When some illness comes, it's a beautiful opportunity to check with this movement of this energy. You can check it. You can see if there's actually someone suffering from it. You can experience all these various tastes, but there's still so much openness. Thank you.

Okay, I'll have to take that. I want to say some experience, of course, about what they were telling about. I had the same confusion. Yeah, you are not the body, you are not the mind. Okay, she's telling from his body, right? So I was not getting people. Okay, okay. Then I thought it may be a higher conscious level they are knowing that. Then of course, after so many others, I came to understand the 'I am'. Of course, like you had the confusion, I do have individual consciousness. Who is this 'I am'? And the spirituality says the 'I' should be dropped. He's telling you remaining, yes, and 'I' is God. So again I went deeper into it. Finally, from his wish, 'I am not this, I am not that'. Yes, that decision, that removes... very good. Of course, an associated... yes, exactly. What is this exactly? Finally, this word 'personally', so it became Mukti. Yes, okay. Yes, first time. So that is the conclusion here which I took. Then when... what is this person? Okay, finally with this I was studying. I was there, then I am this and that. Take this, this time guys. From this I came to know this person instead of that. I believe that I am a person with us. Yes, yes. Identification is neither. So the problem is when I was created... I don't know who created this body or whatever it is. This name did not come around with that. I don't remember having told before creation of my creation, 'I want this body'. Yes, I come to this particularly, this womb or anything. So how can I tell this body is special with us? Exactly. Anybody can tell we have encroached. This body is mine. When we are telling this body is mine, I am telling this is decided by the balance. But because of the conditioning for so many years, now I have become... okay, just looking. Ah, this is not a particular body like buying a land. Yes, so it is the mind, the thoughts, which has encroached the body and 'this is my body'. Well, that 'my' is casual. Yes, exactly. That sure, it's quite clear. And of course, but there is no parity because there are two 'I's and two 'you's. Where are you? When masters say 'you', when the master is telling 'you', it may be to the person 'you' or to the Absolute. But when we hear, we think it is to his name and body called 'you'. But sometimes the master may be meaning the Absolute, yes, or the... miss you. Then the Absolute is there. So now I interactively knew that this casualness, the person called us, this body is not his because I have not purchased this earlier. Exactly. Anything. Only there is proof is other. Okay. Because I don't remember having air conditioning, which is not my body, but I have my mind or my thoughts because of the conditioning. Everybody was calling me 'I' and from the room I grew up, then there are stories. I studied, I passed all these things. This mind called 'I', mind 'I' is taking others. Yes, that's right. One of the things I had happen sometimes bad, I was just making...

The body is not his because I have not purchased this earlier. Exactly anything, only there is proof is other, yes. Okay, because I don't remember having air conditioning, which is not my body. But I have my mind or my thoughts because of the conditioning. Everybody was calling me 'I' and from the room I grew up, then there are stories. I studied, I passed all these things. This mind called 'I', mind 'I' is taking others. Yes, that's right. One of the things I had happen sometimes, I was just making ghee. Normally you say, 'Okay, I made the ghee,' but when I was looking at the event, I was not doing that much. Because each of the heat was making this really butter, not me doing. But the awareness function, indirectly we know. That should be recognized. Recognition has very beautiful report firstly. So you say now that this awareness is like an intellectual meaning right now? You know witnessing is that everything is not even the experience also happen once in a while. That's right, actually it might be the intellectual knowing which happens once in a while.

No, no, but the awareness... no, awareness is there. But the cognition has not happened. Indirectly we know it is awareness, it is Consciousness. Everything is consistency.

How to know awareness indirectly?

Not indirectly. Recognition. Recognition, confirmation. Like, I am having headaches, I am quite sure that the headache is there. It is not a thought, it's not an experience. Direct experience. Very good. Are you aware now?

That's it. But any other recognition has to happen? I said, are you aware now? Yes, yes. This is recognition. Nothing else.

Indirectly, of course. The habit is the habit. Because suppose I am smoking, I am a smoker. To stop, because it's a heavy conditioned one, to come back I have to have effort. Yes, exactly. Otherwise there is no... because natural state is nothing. Okay, perfect. Because of the conditioning. So because of the condition I know, oh, for all these years. But the understanding has to come because I am not the body. Yes, yes, exactly. Not an actual one. I have thoughts, thoughts. Because if I just imagine that, okay, without taking water, imagine taking water. Exactly. Like when we take imagine water in imagination, our thirst will not be like that. I mean, substantial thing called thought which comes from once anyway, energy construct. I knew that. All right, this water... when you are sleeping, you are not the... the person is not there. The mind is completely... or when his mind is completely off, the person cannot exist. If I get asked image, yes. So it is the memory and the story that makes me a good person. Yes, but recognition... no other recognition has to happen? No, because the recognition of awareness... recognition...

Oh great, then please. Master straight, it is only awareness can know awareness. I don't really say that, but I want to hear your whole question. I know I am aware that I am aware, right now, yes. But is it that awareness forgot itself now that it has to recognize? But the recognition that awareness... no, the recognition becoming aware of...

Let's look at this very closely. Does awareness need to recognize itself, or is it its dynamic aspect playing as Consciousness which is coming to the recognition of its own source?

Yeah, so awareness and Consciousness is different, right?

Only qualitatively, seemingly. Because awareness becomes conscious and becomes awareness-Consciousness. For the same thing, it is. It's like you have one ocean, you see, and you have some glaciers on top of that ocean. If you go through the ocean, it feels different. If you hit a glacier, it feels different. So fundamentally we have one ocean, but qualitatively they feel different. Okay? And because sometimes, you know, intellectual doubts will block ours, that's why I keep saying that it is... I suppose this hand is 'I' now. This is appearing as Consciousness, so this 'I am' came up, but it's still the hand only, you know. All those things I don't agree. I am awareness, I am clear.

Some other experiences today morning or so, I had some experience. Everything felt like silence.

Very good. So all these experiences can come in.

The thing is that, so I have having this sweating actually. When I looked, everything is being done automatically. This is not doing anything, it's happening. So I know. So awareness should be aware before this one also takes... no, it is not possible. Morning it was possible. When this comes, I know, then I go and otherwise we take automatically because different. Yeah, that's right. I don't know, it is the movement within Consciousness whether it happened with the thing. Okay, I'm feeling a sense of sweating. It can happen automatically, everything. We are not doing, and the person is... you cannot do because it doesn't exist. Exactly. I've had etc. Whether this... whether this Consciousness can be biological one, a creation of the brain? Because again, is it a functioning of the brain, a creation of the brain? Consciousness is this accident? Then this awareness or Consciousness that disappears and this body back. But when hand is cut off due to some accidents, this body does not die and awareness... there's no...

So let's look at this now. It is our experience that there is awareness, then there is a presence of being, Consciousness. You see? Then this entire world of forms appears. You see? Now, if Consciousness was a product of some form, if Consciousness was an aspect of some form called the brain, that would mean that first in awareness, brain should appear without a body—just the brain—and then this brain would produce Consciousness, which would produce the rest of the body and the rest of the manifest universe, isn't it? If it is all about just the brain, then first there should be brain. The brain is the final perceiver through the eyes. If this was true, if this is true, if there was surgery done even on the dream body and found also, you know, this brain excision for brain materials for brain... that's what I'm saying. So in the dream... about dream, you have a body. That body, if some surgery happens, it will have a brain. You see? So is that brain which is controlling Consciousness? So this brain in this body, they're dreaming. That's what you're asking. In dream you have a body, you know? Yes. And in that body there will be a brain like other organs, everything else that's created. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So just like in the dream my body can be created and it can seem like the body will have all its organs, just like in this dream this body is created with all the organs. Otherwise what would it be? It would be that first there has to be brain in nothingness. You see? There is awareness. Awareness creates dream. There is nothing else because the rest of the world you are saying is manifest through Consciousness. You're not doubting that. You're only saying whether Consciousness itself is a product of the brain which precedes everything. But there is nothing else yet because Consciousness is not there, you see? So only brain is there in limbo. Then whether it will proceed... is it possible that there is just this brain in limbo which comes out of awareness and then this brain then produces Consciousness which produces the rest of the body, the rest of the manifest universe? Is it possible like that? No, it is not possible. Just like the brain is also an appearance within Consciousness. You see? Whether it is dream or this waking state, both bodies will have brain, really. So just like Consciousness is the supreme intelligence which projects all aspects of itself in various parts of this manifestation, the brain is just like that. And then you talked about somebody else dying. You see the head get cut off, so he goes, his Consciousness gone. You see? So it is not like that. So in our dream again, we can refer back to the dream state. It is one Consciousness in which the whole dream is projected, isn't it? Now if you are a dream carrier... suppose this is a dream, somebody comes and hits me, hits the satsang, comes, this one chops my head off right now. What happened to that Consciousness? Nothing. In which the dream is happening, it is still that one Consciousness, isn't it? It is not that Consciousness is here, Consciousness is there. Consciousness... not only that, all of this, the space between us, all of this is one Consciousness. Let me take care of the waking state at least.

There's a point I wanted to make to everyone, which is that many times we feel like it is only intellectual. You see, when I ask you this question, 'Are you aware now?' are you reporting purely intellectually, saying, 'Yes, the right answer should be yes, so let me say yes'? No, you are clear that you are aware. Does this clarity come from because you are knowing yourself to be this knowingness itself? The mind gets confused because you did not see anything phenomenal, you see, and still you say yes. Why don't we say no? If it was purely intellectual, you know, with any concept you can debate on either side and whoever is debating better, that seems to be the truth conceptually, you see. But with this question, 'Are you aware now?' you see, why do we say yes? If you do just conceptual, half would say yes, half would say no. Is it not a direct experience? Of course I am aware. What did we see? Nothing. Even to say 'I am saying yes because I am aware of something' already means that you know what 'aware of' means. Who taught us how to be aware? You see, nobody. It is so natural to us. It is completely original to who we are. And because it is not a phenomenal experience, the self-recognition is not a phenomenal experience, that's why the mind can come and doubt and say, 'But you didn't see anything. Are you sure? Maybe it is just intellectual.' It is not. You cannot answer 'Are you aware now?' just intellectually. Okay, last one. Just get up and come.

That's what he said. So Azer will translate for him. Oh, you want to? Yeah, she'll do. Am I aware?

He can say, 'Yes, I'm aware,' and when then the mind comes in with some doubts to say, 'No, you're not free.' Yes. And so how will I know for sure? How do I convince... yeah, how do I convince my mind or how do I know for sure that I'm free?

So this is already very good. You say when I inquire 'Am I aware?' it is seen without the use of thoughts. Already prior to any thought it is seen, 'Yes, I am aware.' But the mind comes and says, 'But you are not free.' What to do about this? First, don't try to convince the mind. Nobody can ever convince the mind. There is no convinced mind. Okay? So you forget about the mind being convinced. The mind's only function is to convince you, Consciousness, that you are a person. That is the only function. So don't try to change the function of the mind. You see, an axe only functions as an axe. Don't try to make it a bulldozer or something. Enjoy it. So don't try to change the mind firstly. When the mind comes and says, 'But you are not free,' what to do? And because this question is alive for you, means some belief must be going to this idea that 'I am not free. Maybe I am not free.' So then you use that into your inquiry: Which 'I' is not free? Can you find which 'I' is not free? Which 'I' are you in reality? In this sense of presence? Yes. Does even the sense of being come and go? This also comes and goes, isn't it? Sleep, here. Therefore who remains to see that even ultimately even the sense of being is coming and going? Is that not you?

But I have no experience of that during sleep.

If you have no experience of sleep, how do you know there is something called sleep?

I remember when I wake up.

Correct. So if it is not an experience for you, how would you remember it? You remember only things that you have experienced.

No, but that experience is not full of bliss or happiness.

Where do these things come from? Let's go slowly. So you say when I check 'Am I aware now?' I find that yes, I am. Who makes this discovery? You make...

Is that not you? But I have no experience of that during sleep. If you have no experience of sleep, how do you know there is something called sleep?

I remember when I wake up.

Correct. So if it is not an experience for you, how would you remember it? You remember only things that you have experienced.

No, but that experience is not full of bliss or happiness.

Where do these things come from? Let's go slowly. So you say when I check, 'Am I aware now?' I find that yes, I am. Who makes this discovery? You make it or somebody else makes it? Who makes the discovery 'I am aware'? All right, you make it. Now, this 'I', is this awareness or is it something else? You see, now all of the other appearances are coming and going. Even this waking state goes, you see. You know this or no?

Yes.

That means you are aware of it. Yes, even the waking state goes. Dream state comes, sleep state comes. All these states are coming and going. There must be a constant 'I' which is aware of the movement of all of these states. You see? Now, is this 'I' not your true position? This awareness 'I', is it not your truest position, or there is something even more original to you, more natural to you?

You can say whatever this is me, but the mind is continuously convincing...

That is the job of the mind. If upon hearing this, the mind stopped convincing you, then I would not be sharing such in three years. No, I would just share once. Everyone just come to one satsang or just give you a book. Actually, your awareness done. It doesn't, because our habit is to listen to what the mind is saying, you see. So now what to do? That is why the instruction 'Don't believe your next thought' is there. So you will say, 'Yes, yes, some thoughts, they come and go because I'm not believing them; they're allowed to go. But some still very automatically get belief, or very fast it happens. I'm not able to not believe.' Isn't it something like this? What to do with these thoughts really? Which are these thoughts? They are usually about the strongest identity, you see. If a thought comes and says next year Switzerland will get so much beliefs from you, will it? Unless you identified with it, it's not bad. Let's see, let's come up with something. Somebody was talking about igloos—I don't know whether it was in satsang—'Let's build an igloo in Alaska and live there.' Do you get your belief? So, but the thought comes, 'You are not free yet.' It gets our beliefs because we are attached to the concept of freedom. It is part of our identity as a seeker. What to do with these kind of thoughts which still push our buttons? You pull them into your inquiry, you see. So for most of your thoughts which get belief, are they only about freedom or some other identity also?

Other thoughts also.

Other also. Are they about relationships? Are they about money? Are they about health of the body, or are they about freedom? You already spoke about basically these four. All right, so that's normal human existence. In the normal human existence, it is these four things primarily that in different, different quantities we are believing, you see. Then what is the deciding factor which makes someone a sage or free and someone a seeker? Only that even thoughts about freedom, even thoughts about security, even thoughts about special relationships, even thoughts about the body—all of these are allowed to just come and go, you see, without us giving them our identity. In fact, I've said often that this tormentor mind becomes comedian mind. So mind comes and says, 'Oh, you must find freedom. You are not there yet.' Who are you talking about? You can just laugh at it, you see. Because who is not free? Who is not free? You say, 'I am this awareness.' I'm changing now. Does this awareness mean freedom? Freedom thoughts? Yes. So somebody comes and rings your doorbell and says, 'Show me last year's tax returns. Give me food. Do this for me, do that for me.' Do you start running? Of course you say, 'But who are you? Who are you?' The same reason the mind comes and says, 'Give me this, give me freedom, give me good experiences, give me more money and give me this.' We should just say, 'But who are you?' We hear it, but our habit has become like this: to keep believing this mind. And that is why now we are looking and saying, 'Why should I? I've been feeding this one who's showing up at my door every day for 30, 40 years. Now I'm going to question: but who are you? Why should I keep feeding you?' Then what happens when you ask this mind, 'Who are you?' What happened? Does it see who it is?

I cannot find this person.

But can we find at least... let's not believe it. No? Do you want to keep believing something you can't find, or you want to drop that which is not found and say, 'Okay, I'm open. One day if I find this person, I will start believing it.' Example: somebody is at your door again. He's saying, 'Now give me food for the next four days.' You say, 'But who are you to demand this food from me?' 'Yeah, I can't find my people, you believe in, just give.' No, you don't. So same way, you are not finding who this voice is representing, so why you have to follow what it is saying? It's getting me, no? Yes. You will tell them, 'Okay, when you find your people, you come back, then I will see.' So tell the mind, 'When you can produce the person and show me I'm representing this one, then I will believe.' Can we do like that? No? Thank you. And this is honest.

Okay, so currently, he asked him that why do you have to believe your mind and why you don't say 'Who are you?' So he says, 'I can't do that because my previous teacher taught me that I have to become free from doing some good actions or some practice.' And the mind says, 'Why should I believe Ananta Ji and not believe my previous Guru?'

It's a very good question. So what you must do is get a contract from the previous Guru saying that so many Om Namah Shivaya chanting or practice will definitely get you this freedom. So you say that that number is 10 lakhs. 'I have done in 10 years, I've done nine lakh only, one more lakh is left.' You see, you get that contract. Will you do that one lakh more chanting? Finishes. But is it a promise? It is not. It is just sometimes said. Once he said it would be better sometimes if I give you some push-ups to do. So you know push-ups? When you go down, then when you're coming up, you say you're going down. So you do these push-ups 26 times every day for 10 years, you will be free. Okay, but I am tired of that too. So why are you tired? Because fundamentally there is something wrong with this. What is wrong? Fundamentally means what do we need to do practice for? Practice to become better at something? No. Okay, so what is it going to happen now? Will the Self become better at becoming the Self by practicing? The Self must be the same unchanging one, you see. Everybody says the Self is unchanging, you see. Now, if God or the Self also is something which comes and goes, then I am not interested in such a God, you see. I practiced 10 years, then God shows up. Then how do I know when I'm really in trouble or not? So I am interested in that God which is here irrespective of whether there is practice or not, isn't it? Because if it is unpredictable, then how do I know? Okay, I got darshan of God, but when I'm in trouble, it might not appear. I'm interested in that eternal God which is always here, isn't it? Now, if God is here, you see, then what is the trouble in finding it here? So your complaint can be that 'I have looked but I don't find God.' That could be a complaint. But to say that maybe that God is better in practice, that is fallacy, isn't it? What is the God that you find here when you look now?

I just find presence of myself, my own self. I don't find any God.

Or this presence, this 'I am', this is Consciousness, this is God. God said, 'I am that I am.' You see? Why we should call it the God? This is a very good question. Because God is what? That which is everywhere. One of the aspects when people talk about God, they say God is everywhere. Now you find whether anything that you are experiencing, whether anything is outside of this presence. This voice that you're hearing, is it inside this presence or outside this presence? Inside. This body that you see, outside? This room that you see, outside? This world that you see, outside? Is it inside this presence or outside? This garden, is it experienced inside you or outside you? Inside you. Therefore, this presence in which everything is appearing and disappearing, that is everywhere, or actually everywhere is within that. Yes, isn't it? Okay, so that is one aspect of God. So if this presence is everywhere, therefore this is God, at least in that way that it is everywhere. Second is that they say that God is the principle that brings everything to life, you see. Now in your direct experience, is it not true that first 'I am' and then this world is? Is there ever a world without this 'I am'? No, you see. So it is this, your presence, which gives light to the appearance of your waking state, of this appearing world, you see. So that which gives light to the appearance of the world, that is God, you see. So it is everywhere, it is the light which gives life to the entire world, you see. Then what else must God be? It is omnipresent, omniscient, and let's see... okay, all-powerful. We discussed this, no? All-powerful. So if God, we discussed in the morning, is the one doer and one experiencer, then who's the only one with power? Only this Consciousness, no? So this being is the one doer and one experiencer. This being is everywhere. This being is all-powerful, you see. Then which attribute of God does not match your being?

Sat-Chit-Ananda.

Yeah, very good. So he says that Sat is clear, yes, no problem there. The problem... Consciousness itself is being necessary. How the trouble is now... the way to get Ananda is to remain with Sat and Chit. Just remain with Sat and Chit. Don't pick up any other idea. Then you show me how Ananda does not come. Joy is only in service to your unassociated being, you see. If you are not confusing your Chit to be a person, if you're not burdening it with false ideas, you see, then love, peace, joy... it is in service to you. You are not to be in service to joy. Your position is the master of joy, not the servant of joy. If you keep chasing, chasing love, peace, joy, then they keep running. You stay as being, then you tell me if it doesn't come. Awareness within which this Chit is born, Consciousness, and then see in your unassociated being you'll find only this and you will actually not care about it so much. Where did he go? Yeah, that's why I know. Yes, exactly. So I feel I say with integrity, as much integrity as I can, I feel I say this with integrity when I say that in this living experience, if it becomes completely without joy, I don't feel like I'm troubled by that. I am not in service to joy in any way. In fact, I find so much joy which is here, which is just percolating on its own. It is in service to the being that is here. I am not concerned with this. It's nice, of course. It's undeniable that it's nice to taste, but if it was taken away, the taste of this, I don't feel like it's a big loss or something.

The mic... actually we were in the same organization back... actually the first session, the first session in that organization, it is told that everything we are doing here is for happiness only. The only first lecture this is used to say there. So everything follows after that. So that may be a reason.

Thank you. Usually I'll not say anything about any other organization, especially if they're not here to defend themselves. Actually, maybe we have not... that I used to see or judge any organization completely. So it's not good to judge anybody in that thing. You see, what starts happening is that—I was saying this to someone the other day also—that you find so much gratitude in where you are right now that you really stop resenting anything that happened in the past. You feel that even that was okay. Whatever happened over there brought me here now. Then we can only give thanks.

They are here to defend themselves actually. Maybe we have not... that I used to see or judge any organization completely, so it's not good to judge anybody in that thing. You see, what starts happening is that I was saying this to someone the other day also, that you find so much gratitude in where you are right now that you really stop resenting anything that happened in the past. You feel that even that was okay. Whatever happened over there brought me here now. Then we can only give thanks to even that, isn't it?

Thank you all so very much for being in satsang.