Is the Seeing Unchanging? - 31st October 2017

I couldn't put myself inside.

So you put everything that is changing inside. Everything that is changing, you put inside. Now, what is left outside? Is that changing or not changing? Now, is this an inference? Is this something you're presuming, like 'Oh, there must be an I which is unchanging, so I'm leaving it outside'? Or is this your insight? Let's do this together and see whether we're having the same insight or not. Because my feeling is that we are seeing the same thing. We are seeing the same thing, but we are interpreting it differently. So let's do it. Omar, we will do it. Lena, this world is changing, so I put it in the basket. It's an emotional basket; we know that it's gone to the world. This body is changing. Now, I am witnessing this body, so the change in the body has been witnessed by me. So now I took this body out. Sensors—now what to say about these thoughts? I see them changing. It's a seeing of the changing of forms. Sometimes they come, sometimes they go. So this is changing; put it in the basket.

I am seeing, but whatever emotions are here—few days ago what anger came, sometimes frustration, sometimes something else—in the box which changes. I'm seeing this. I'm seeing also. So the body has a sense of being, and the very experience of pleasure—both are seen by me. And I see that they are not constant. All the body sensations also in the basket. What about the seeing? Seeing is still there. Seeing is still there. Is this changing?

As long as I have this perception, it's still there.

Now, what about that which is aware of the seeing? You are aware. So you don't know whether you are that awareness? Is that the question?

Yes. Where did we come to? We saw that there is awareness of it, but I don't know whether I am aware because this 'I' itself is... and yet if I said you are not this, is it not everybody speaking from inside? It is a Ratna who had that experience and she just whispered in your ear? No, no, it's direct. So it is you, but you don't know that 'you'. That 'you' is unfamiliar to you. So you are neither able to call it somebody else, nor are you able to call it 'I'. You're not saying it's somebody else's also. What you are saying is, 'Is it really I?' Why is that confusion? It is only because so far in the past, before coming to satsang, where have we used the 'I'? For the changing or the unchanging?

The changing.

Now we are listening to what the sages said: 'The world, the universe keeps changing. I remain as the solitary witness.' So now we are taking the sages' word for it, and in our investigation, seeing, 'Okay, all changes can come and go, but something witnesses it.' You see? Now, do I remain with the witness, or do I go along with the changing? Before you can put the word there, do you go with something changing? Show me how. Your thought is coming, okay, and thought is going. Do you go with that? You can't go. What can you go with? So the seeing is not going. It is not coming or going. So if you are, you are with the seeing only. Yeah? Everything else is coming and going. You are not going with that. Then does it make sense to want that which you already have? This is an important point. Otherwise, we can feel like, 'I want that.' But I am telling you that you are that. So the 'I' that wants something can have a change of state, okay? It can sound like, 'If I have something, then I'm different. If I don't have it, then I'm as I was before.' But that one is also changing. Therefore, it is not the real 'I'. So if you do not come and go, and everything that comes and goes is not you, you must be the unchanging one. And what form or size? What are we finding now?

If there was something that you inferred in this—inferred, now, you know I use the term often—if you just made a conclusion about it or you computed the answer, then you stop over there and tell me at this point, 'This is not clear.' What did you see? That you are this unchanging primal witnessing. Not even the witness, we can say really, because 'witness' means the idea that there is an entity there to whom the witnessing belongs. But actually, there is only the witnessing itself. The witnessing that is aware of perception. Who sees your sight? Who hears your hearing? That is beyond sight and hearing. That is beyond perception. Now, irrespective of the functioning of the senses—you have been having some trouble with your eyes—but did something happen to that awareness who is aware? Nothing happened. So irrespective of the functioning of sight, irrespective of the functioning of hearing, that peace remains unchanged. That 'I'.

It's louder so they can hear. To see, hearing, you say that is you. It is actually... how do you say that is you? Just as I can see that this body is also me, all this over here. But I see you perceive, further there is also seeing all that. It is in... sent somewhere inside this functioning of this body and chemical processes inside. I always see that as a faculty. And you say that it is... that is you, actually you. So there is like, from a physical sense, I can say that is actually you. The point isn't connected.

So you see that this body is also me. Now, why is that body 'you' and this body 'not you'? That's precisely my question. If you did not have to label ever, who is coming and saying 'me, me, me, you, you, you'? It is not labeling anything. Like we speak—maybe we spoke this last time also—like for a child, an infant, you have a small baby. For them, they do not have the distinction till a particular age. I take this example often: the hand or a toy, it's no distinction for them. They could be happy playing with the hand; we don't have to tell them to just play with that toy. So they don't have this idea of 'me' as a separate. Can you be something that needs the idea to exist? So independent of this idea or label, what are you now? And this, all of this? All of which? Only a particular aspect of this? Yes. But what is defining that boundary line? Yeah, let's see.

Okay, but my question is this: what you see when we define it, that is actually exactly what I do first because you... so that's one thing, that this is you, but not just this, all of this. That's what you are doing now by seeing that it is an experience. Even that is an experience.

What makes it 'me' or 'my experience' versus that of another? How is it that all of this... if I can have all of this in a dream, and all of that is me in a dream, so we accept that when we come to this waking state. Then how is it that when this seeming state comes and the mind says, 'But this body is you, this name is you,' then it is so easy to accept that? Now, these words that you're hearing, are they not being heard in the same space as the sensation which you call your body is being experienced? Yes, it is in the same space. Is there a boundary line between that experience of that body and these words in that space? No. The contact points, the vantage points are seen, okay? Like this: what is watching is the sensation that happens on this body, and hearing takes place on this. The same vantage point is that here? No. It is not a misunderstanding. Like if you were having this conversation in a dream, also you would see, 'But this body seems so intimate.' But the voice of the speaker in that dream, the one that you're talking to, would also be inside your own consciousness.

So right now we can see that unless I went in support of this label, which has labeled this as 'me' and 'you' as another, then this distinction would not have happened. But we need to label them to make a distinction. Yes? Isn't that our experience? So, you know, we have learned and a habit has become to interpret the experience as if it is an experience of separation. Actually, the separation has never happened. We dreamed all these examples of... okay, so if that seems like that is going too far, so let's take a simpler example. Now you say that it seems to me that these sensations of the body are very intimate and naturally it seems like this must be me. Okay. Now, in your last five problems, how many have been about the body? If they've been about the body, so if you were the body, whose problems are those? Do you say that the body has problems? What are your usual problems? That 'I should have more money in the bank.' Now, you are the body. What do you know about money? No, nothing. So how can you have that problem? You could have a problem that says, 'I wish I had the perfect partner who would understand me.' Now, does the body care about this kind of understanding? So who is that one?

The beauty of what I'm sharing is that even if you consider yourself to be the body, this one, the ego, is still not there. The one who cares about relationships, the one who cares about money, and the same one who cares about freedom—none of this is there. The body is there. So I see that body identification, actually, although it is not true from my direct experience, but actually it is much more benign. Even if you consider yourself just the body, you would not have all this trouble. It is because you consider yourself the owner of the body, the same one that is the owner of the money, the same one which is the owner of the relationship, and the same one who is the seeker of freedom. That one is the trouble, and that one is just an imaginary character. Searching for it... so if this is him, then you say, 'Okay, that one is imaginary, but which one is which? What you call is...' Because that one is imaginary, how can I find the real me? Now, if you are looking for a solid definition of real, can it be something which is changing? Changing all the time? Yeah, one aspect of... let's look at this. You say, 'The curtains in my house are yellow.' I say, 'Are they real yellow?' You say, 'At the moment they are.' You see? So the confidence in the reality goes away if something is changing. If something is unchanging, then we can be confident. For example, if this wall, I was painting it black, blue, yellow, green every day—it was changing—and then now saying, 'Okay, what is really the color of the wall?' What would be the answer?

Which is changing, changing all the time. Yeah, one aspect of... hey, let's look at this. You say, 'The curtains in my house are yellow.' I say, 'Are they real yellow?' You say, 'At the moment.' There you go. So the confidence in the reality goes away if something is changing. For something which is unchanging, then we can be confident. For example, if this wall, I was painting it black, then yellow, green every day—it was changing—and then now saying, 'Okay, what is really the color of the wall?' What would be the answer? So it must be the unchanging one that we can call true here. If God itself were changing all the time, then how could you find that? So the search is for that which is ancient, because we are looking for stability.

What is the trouble? Trouble is that we've had various beliefs about ourselves and they have been changing, so we are not finding stability. We've had various ideas about how much money I should have, which path I should have, how should I live my life. But if we had one consistent idea, we would have just got that and be happy. But these ideas keep changing. So nothing in the phenomenal world has stability, and yet it is not a medium constant. It is not... look, if I tell you this is a twenty-five coloring book, so let's see. Unchanging, what could be? Yet in phenomena, have you had the experience of that something deeper to do as a witness about this unchanging? And usually you come to satsang because you're tired of attaching to that which is changing. You're attached to that which would not keep it, or the idea about what you wanted itself changed. So that causes suffering.

So we come to satsang because we got tired of the change and we're looking for that which is unchanging. Now this is an exploration to see whether there is something which is unchanging or not. So it's a real-life exploration. It is not... we can have various hypotheses. I can propose something which you're not mentally just by the answer. So I'm glad you're doing this question. You think that you... I say that you are awareness, but it is my experience it doesn't seem like it is my experience. So this is what we are checking. So it seems like a longing now is to find that which is unchanging because we are done with that which is changing, because so much suffering comes with who we are. But now we want to go beyond that.

So let's have this exploration, and this is exactly what we were doing. The basket metaphor, although it's a simple one, it's extremely powerful. So world is changing, always changing. Also changing, emotions are changing. What witnesses all of this? The same one which has witnessed many bodily... this which we call the waking body, that he calls a great body. The same one had that dream body which has not a single cell in common with this one. What is that? Now the thought will bring knowledge to you if you bring something which you think is scientific or something like this, but we are going beyond that and staying with our direct experience.

What can we say about this state? This we would recall the waking school. Is it a constant? It's not constant. It's not constant. Now will this body be able to escape this waking state and join you in your dreamless sleep? The question, the fact is that as you come to dreamless room, is there anything there including this body? If there is nothing there, then who would be there to know that there is nothing? That itself must be not a thing. If there is no thing there, then that which witnesses that there is nothing there must itself not be a thing. So if you say that, 'I had... we can create a hat team state... I had sleep, I had to hear,' forget about career for me. So you would have to be the constant through the states, isn't it? Because you say, 'I had this, I have this, this.' So you are the one constant.

The waking state takes everything that the waking state has and goes away. The dream state comes and all this entire world can appear, and then when the dream state goes, everything in that goes. And then the sleep state comes where there is nothing, and yet you remain, but not as a thing. Now when the waking state came, did you become a thing? It's very important. We are not presuming anything. Yeah, yeah, so we're just checking now with my confusion and I become the region stream. Yes, but did you change in your nature? No. Now I know that you have some fullness. Fullness comes, yes. And yet although fullness comes from this fullness, Venus remains completely full. So from this no-thing, all things have come. And you rightly say it seems like I get enthused in that. So all of this is made up of me, and yet that which is fully full, in spite of the appearance of this manifest fullness, nothing happens to that.

What you are in your sleep state is not affected by the appearance of this waking sleep. What you are is unaffected by the appearance of the clean-shaven. So all these leaves are changing, coming and going. Now, so what will happen is that when this in the weekly... where is this mind which tries to tell you that you are just an object of the waking suit? Actually you saw the day entire estate came from within you. It is your own powers. It is manifesting as this waking state. But this voice will come tell you that, 'No, no, the waking state is not in you, you are an object in the waking state.' Now without that, you will see that all of this... there is no separate... there are no qualitative or quantitative differences between a dream and that which we are calling the waking state. Actually there is only one dream state, or we can say it's just that this seems so intimate and real that we hesitate to call it a dream. It's okay, we don't have to force them.

The point is though, to make the main point in the beginning, is that even in this waking state, when I look for the one who could have the problems about any relationships, even health of the body, if you do not find... and if you do not find that one, see, then we see that it has just been a belief, an idea that I believe about myself. It's like so... but right now you are empty of that belief. This moment you are empty of even that bees. Now you're thinking about it. This is God is gone, our God can use its thoughts to pretend. Because if it is which is constant and... and it's like one three-man you're watching still there. So if you want to find in that frame yourself, then your definition is understandable. God become me, turn against a Dominion.

Okay, let's break this down a little further. Now we've said that even this appearance is me. Now I am that full, so everything that comes must also be me. There is nothing else. There is only awareness. In that which we call the sea or deep sleep state, there is only awareness. There is no thing. Therefore that is the substance of everything. Then if something comes, what must that something be made up of? The same over in correct. So just because something is moving... it is because my finger is moving doesn't mean that it ceases to be the hand. Still the hand. So it is awareness itself, the Self itself, which is manifesting itself as consciousness, which usually we use the label. Now it is this God or the manifest aspect, Saguna, has the attribute, the one with attributes aspect of the Self which we call consciousness.

So this consciousness is what is the Self alone, but it has a qualitative feel as if it is infesting. I am, I doing as I am. Now till I am neutral, what is the root of all trouble? Till I am motor, that's Atma, consciousness, the middle to attach the notion 'I am something.' Just like the whole computer game has been put on, right? But you are saying that 'I am the James Bond character.' It's actually you now going to seek that the entire game came from within you. The entire play not only came from within you, it continues to this bubble around in your own being. But within this there comes this very intimate set of sensations on the body, into Mexico sensations or thoughts, and we have taken this set of sensations, a mirror theoretical construct called the body-mind, which we call the ego or the person.

It's just a theoretical construct. All these sensations are independent. They just have one cause, which is consciousness. They start from consciousness, end in consciousness. I am made up of substances. There is only consciousness. And yet in the appearance, consciousness is given itself the ability to take these constructs and make a new shimmer. Like there is no spiral, we have a theoretical notion of style. Well, is there something real like this guy? It is new sky. It's a construct which is made up of that space in which clouds can be there, that space in which we can use the star. But there is no substance like the star. In the same wheel, there is no substance like the person. It is just a theoretical notion, the ego, which is to theoretical constant. There is in fact no mind exist that we've taken this set of sensations called thoughts, imagination, memories, and put it together into one vertical motion called minds.

In fact, you know where I'm truth, there is no such thing as the body. You will take in all of these various sensations like sensation yeast, magician pom situation, and made one collective construct and visual sensation which seems to have this continuity. Is it into one construct called the body? But all is only with consciousness. Yeah, it's just like ice-cream street when we become a body, it's not actually exactly. So now that is where the CDs are given, thus please queue. We have seen through this Maya, this realm of the changing, and come to that discovery of the truth and then said, 'Okay, in the clearing everyone needs some clues.' So what are the scriptures? Or it is the Ashtavakra Gita. It's a set of clues. How do you find this? Because actually directly you cannot point to it. I cannot take you that which is out of space. I pawn in this game space of wanting, that means I have to take you beyond space. So that in that beyond, space itself becomes a clue, it becomes upon term.

I cannot tell you that which is timeless, telling you that you will find it in the future or you have it in the past. I have to take you beyond time. But I cannot take you phenomenally given time. I can just point to your source. Where does even this consciousness come? One is that beyond time and space for me. So these clues that we use like this, so eating speed, see, see, see, and the dream state we can, but uncertainty we can say go screaming and very rarely really we can also. So now that's why Guruji says you have to wake up from the waking state. It's so easy like this. What in this week see me, make me steam stops me to verify what you say? It is the habit of going without conditioning. We have such angry deal to take that habit of conditioning which reinforces the idea 'you are a person, you are a person, you're a person.' These are your ego, this is your life, this is what you should do, you have to be like this, you have to do like this. This constant commentary is on then, and our predisposition has become that we believe this comedy.

Then you need to have the opposite of that also, which is pointing you to your timeless picture, to your spaceless nature, and reminding you that it can you really change? You don't find the one that the mind is talking to. So, so that means there is a striking resemblance, exactly same model. That's your entry and people come to you and see you are exactly same. Okay, you're awake, you're awake. Nothing is there for you to do. It's where I started satsang with this point. Can I've been starting certainly with this point almost ability to say that when you take on the presumption that 'I have to wake up' is already the trap uses, because you are awake. If you pick up the pretense of the sleep one and then try to wake... so what is happening? God pretending to be a person who's pretending to want to become God again. Yeah, if you drop all of these pretense, what are you? The idea that I just talked to this designer which although I know that you are exaggerating in your expression, but the fact is this is the primal doubt, either the prime moved out: why don't I get it?

The presumption that 'I have to wake up' is already the trap, you see, because you are awake. If you pick up the pretense of the sleepy one and then try to wake up, so what is happening? God pretending to be a person who's pretending to want to become God again. Yeah? If you drop all of these pretenses, what are you? The idea that 'I just talked to this designer'—which, although I know that you are exaggerating in your expression, but the fact is this is the primal doubt. The primal doubt: 'Why don't I get it? How can I see it? Or what is stopping it?'

Yesterday I was saying that you are Shiva right now. You are Shiva now. What is your more? So you are Shiva, you are Shiva, you are Shiva. Whatever your representation of the Absolute is, which is actually the representation. I will come and say, 'Yes, yes, you gotta come see, see, see. Everybody seems to be getting it. You must be stupid. Why are you not getting it?' These kind of ideas this mind will whisper in your ear. Are you going to buy it from the same old salesman who has been telling you the story of misery for millions of years?

It is... I always find it funny when someone says, and usually after they say like that, usually after sharing a sad story about how they got to a particular situation in life, then I say, 'Leave it to God.' They say, 'But what's going to happen to my life?' And I say, 'But you just said you made a big mess of it so far, so why can't God play with it? Let God play with it for a while.' You see this reluctance that 'If I leave it, then God cannot own it. I have... I don't know who I am, but I have to take responsibility for my life.' So you better find out who you are, because if you have given the keys to somebody who doesn't have the driver's license, and you keep thinking that 'I've had crash after crash.' Wonderful hypnosis, Atma. Why is it so wonderful? Because this is the design of God. It will be no fun unless I can play with it as if I can have some drama in it, you see? It has to be like a Bollywood movie: some laughter, some crying, some bad jokes, some tragedy, some winning at the end.

Now I know the story that I'm telling you, so just saying that we don't have to wait for that heroic, victorious ending. Just naturally you are that. A bit of an anti-climax. 'This is my enlightenment? I was promised enlightenment at the end of...' You are like... Mukti is in service to you if you did not buy a word, do not believe a 'but.' But what is 'but'?

Then we look around and I feel like we have a 'but' somewhere. Isn't one sitting with me? When she was holding my hand together, we just... I felt like it was so clear that this realm is just an appearance and beyond this, I felt like this one holding my hand was on a world with me beyond this time and space.

What happened in life? What is being shared is so clear because this... it cannot be so easy. 'But what did he actually tell me to do tonight? Write it down clearly.' This kind of feeling of unworthiness, the feeling that I have to suffer for my liberation. And I am saying the opposite: that you are that. If God is the one which is not changing, then you have to find God. What must be here? Either the sages have been lying and God is also coming and going, so we must find him, seek him out and find him. Or the sages have been telling the truth and I went looking for myself and I found God, and I went looking for God and I found myself. Only you are. God is both in the same thing.

But that which you consider yourself to be, the limited self, the limited identity, never has it come into existence. So I'm like the doctor of a non-existent disease. The disease which is eradicated. Like smallpox, recently they suppose it is eradicated, and you come to me and say, 'Doctor, I'm suffering from smallpox.' I say, 'Show me the symptoms.' You say, 'Well, when I check, actually I don't find any symptom, but yesterday I was feeling like the symptoms were true, or I was thinking that I had smallpox.' So what medicine should I give you for smallpox? But you have no smallpox. So what medicine should I give? I can only tell you the disease is not there. See for yourself what you are.

The thing... we already... a little more elegant example is that with the ocean having drop-thoughts and believing it's a drop. Actually, you are much more than those. How can I make a drop the ocean? Can anyone make a drop the ocean? If there was something really like the person, can we make it God? Nobody can. It's not a possibility. If you are really a person, nobody can ever make you God. It must be that the starting point and the ending point are the same, which is that only God is, and this idea of limitation has been false.

Another trick of the mind is to say, 'Now that I have understood this, how can I use this?' You can't. 'How can I look at this? What benefit do I get because of this understanding? Can I quit my job?' No guarantee. 'So what am I here for then?' So if you are here for any of them, this is the point when you understand this point, you say, 'Okay, I am not ready for this. Later.' Satsang is not because... if it is about any of the auxiliaries that seemingly were promised in the marketing department. And yet I can promise you, working as you are, finding this, to want anything which is available in the phenomenal world makes no difference. But that feverishness, that 'Without this I am sorry,' that cannot be.

The Father did not say, 'After ten years of self-inquiry, who are you?' He is asking you, 'Who are you now? Now.' Mr. and Mrs. Consciousness, how would you like to live? As if you are something? As if you are limited? That is the primal choice you have given yourself. Nobody can take it away from you. But do you see it is a choice? Are you incomplete in this very moment? Existence, Consciousness, does it have a lack? It's just an idea to believe in some 'okay' this way, a little bit 'okay.' Now, in this very moment, how are you existing? Do you need a thought to exist? Do you need a sensation and emotion? Why are you effortlessly here? And who is aware of this existence? Does that which is aware have a color? Does it have a shape or size? What is the age of this one?

Now, as Satsang gets over a little bit, does this mean that as Satsang gets over that it is time to pick up the mask again? To pick up the idea of the person? We can be done with this idea that 'Unless I do it, life will stop.' This idea is not true. Our existence is the light of life. What you do, the Being is running life. What you are is not an idea about yourself. Thank you all so much for being in Satsang today. Mooji Baba Ki Jai.