How Do You Know That You Are Aware Vs How Do You Know That You Are Awake?

No. Sometimes I go like this, I don't know. That is the common experience.

Bhagwan shared with us that he would say that in the heart—not the physical heart, but the spiritual heart—that is the core of where this vibration seems to emanate from, you see. So it is not within the body, and yet in many sharing of satsang, you see so many masters, the hand naturally goes to the heart region. We just feel like there's a very, very pure pulsating core or vibration over there. But that is not as important as long as you can see that it is. So this experience that you have, is it the experience of something manifest or unmanifest?

It's not manifest. And that is another question that came up when you talk about vibration.

So when you said that sometimes you feel like something here, what is that? Do you experience something there, or what is it?

I don't know. It's what you call intuitive. I don't know.

So you would say that your being is a purely unlimited nothingness, or is there a subtle 'somethingness' about it? I don't know if it's unlimited or limited. The reason you just said you're saying that it's limited... I don't know if it's unlimited, but then you are saying that you are experiencing it in a manifest way? No? But isn't that an inference? If I say it's unlimited just because... it is giving a clue to us where to look. So on one hand, if we are able to say that I can't say that it's unlimited, but it's here—anything that is noticed or recognized as limited in a particular unit, we call that manifest, isn't it? The unmanifest cannot be localized in any way. Because there is a 'hereness,' there is an aspect. What is this hereness? How is it experienced?

It's a good question, because you asked that before at the beginning and I couldn't say how it is experienced.

What changes when we wake up? How do you know that you're awake now? Let's leave what changes when we wake up. Is it purely perception? No. So what is that which is independent of perception which shows you that you are awake?

I am.

Yes. What is that 'I am'? It's 'I,' but I cannot refer to it as something. So that 'I' is there even in the sleep state? You notice the change from sleep to waking. What is the most primal change that you notice that you could say, 'Ah, even if the world is not there, this is there, therefore I notice that I am awake and not asleep'? The 'I' is unchanging throughout states—sleep or waking, it doesn't matter. So what is the primal change that happens that we can call the waking state? Wakefulness came. How are you awake now?

I'm here.

Yes. How do you know? In what way are you here? Is it the body?

No, I know because it is I who is here and that I knows.

So try to link it with the question. That 'I' is always here and that 'I' always knows it's here, whether it is the sleep state or the waking state. But how do you know that you are awake? Is there a difference in the two questions: How do you know that you are aware versus how do you know that you are awake? It's just one alphabet change, but it's a huge difference in the question.

I don't know what happens during sleep. But right now, how do I know that I'm awake? Suppose the lights went out, all the sound went out, at which point would you say you were asleep? I wouldn't, exactly, because I wouldn't be conscious.

Yeah. So what is that? How do you know that you are conscious versus aware? These types of questions, I know that they are for insight, but usually they just really trigger the mind. Let's not trigger it now. I'm with you. Can you ask again?

Yes, my dear. You said something very beautiful and I was hoping you would get to this point. You said, "Because I am conscious," you see? And to be conscious is qualitatively different from being aware. What is that difference? How do you mean conscious versus aware? Are you using it interchangeably? These are one of the things that I don't understand. What do you mean? I don't know the difference between aware and conscious.

Oh, you said very naturally that you are conscious. Could you have also said because I'm aware? I know I'm awake because I'm aware.

Okay, no, we're getting there. It's very good. So what is the distinction, qualitative as it may be? It's a very beautiful discovery. So you say this Consciousness is my being. Consciousness is... that's why the city deserves happening, that even God takes birth within myself. There has to be a relationship with the world. We'll come to the connection or the relationship to Consciousness in the world later at a later point. Let's first... you're discovering, unraveling something very beautiful which came out to you very naturally because you said, "I'm conscious." This is not the same as saying, "I'm aware." All right? So what is that determining distinction? That Consciousness is the only being, the true being, the Father.

The question still remains: why not what Adrian said about just being open and empty? Why is that skipping a step? Because that's how I understood it.

I would not go on for years about being open and empty if I felt like that was skipping a step. I only meant that as you are open and empty, it is impossible that we only recognize awareness and not consciousness. Because if I'm open and empty, are you aware that you are conscious as well? Your being is here, your presence is here, yes? And would you say that even that being is not the most primal? Like, the awareness is independent even of this being or consciousness? If I was to force you to answer, which one of these rests on the other and which is independent? Which one is the substratum for which one? Which one is independent of the presence or absence of the other?

Consciousness comes after. And you see that intuitively. You know that without awareness there can be no consciousness. Without consciousness, you are still aware. So awareness is independent of being and not being. But in the waking state, as you open and empty, you can never see that, "Oh, I recognize awareness but not consciousness." That is just not possible.

This is what I was saying. It's the easiest. Because many times I have heard you or Guruji or others talk about, "Don't try to go straight to the absolute," and there are moments in contemplation where I can't tell the difference. It's good to see this because that is just so that you avoid a mind trick or trying to create a visualization of some limbo-type dark empty space and time to get you to conclude that that is awareness, which is basically just a visualization.