How Do I Get Rid of This ‘Person’ and This Suffering? - 17th May 2016

Okay, so right now there is suffering. Every part of you is suffering? Every part of the body, every part of you? Every part of you is suffering?

Yes, every part is paining.

And that which witnesses the suffering, that is also suffering? You know, that is outside of you. That which witnesses the suffering, that which witnesses the sensation, that which witnesses all of this pain—what is happening to that one? Is that somebody else?

No, but the sensation of suffering is so overpowering that for that one, for the witness, it is overpowering.

Who is it overpowering? It becomes very difficult to cope with that anxiety? It becomes very difficult to cope with anxiety?

Yes, yes, yes.

The sensation of anxiety is there, the sense of suffering is there, but isn't there also this witness which remains untouched by any of this? That which is looking, is that also suffering? Is that also anxious?

No. Actually, Father, it becomes overwhelming, the fear, the anxiety, that, you know, I start reacting.

Yes, because you have put your 'I' in the wrong place. You put your 'I' in the place of movement. You say that which is moving, that which is anxious, that which is suffering, is 'I'. I am saying when we look, we find that 'I' in reality is not touched by these sensations of anxiousness, by the sense of suffering. Now, don't go with what your mind is saying about this. When you look, what do you find? A lot of knowledge and a lot of sensations? That is also seen. What happened to this 'I'? Are you the noise, or are you the witness of the noise? Actually, it is impossible not to suffer if you believe yourself to be an appearance—that which is changing, moving, coming, and going—because it is this sense of change, this lack of stability, which itself is suffering. Is the ocean suffering because the wave is going up and down? And if you are the wave which is going up and down, then who is aware of this wave, the ups and downs? Who is the witness of them? Is that also going up and down?

No, it couldn't be. But all the thoughts arise and subside in such an intensity. Father, next, very intense thought. And tell me, how it is so intense? What is so intense about it? Like, for example, if my child is not doing well in school, so it creates a lot of fear in the mind.

The thought in itself is not intense. Because to one who has no children, if the thought comes, 'Oh, my child is not doing well,' it is meaningless. So the content of the thought could be the same, but the intensity depends on how much you believe it. And the belief in the thought is dependent on what you believe yourself to be. That is the root of the suffering: the false belief that I have about myself. And there is no end of suffering if we go like this, trying to sort out my life to give myself some better experiences. As long as we don't clarify this 'me'—either we clarify this 'me' or we surrender this 'me'—only that is the end of suffering. I know right now if you look, you will not find a person. I have been asking for three years; nobody has found it. So I can say with great confidence now that you will not find it. If you cannot find the person, why do you have to believe personal thoughts?

I feel as if my participation is very important, and if I don't participate in it, then...

Yes, but who is this 'I' that must participate? For a minute, don't worry about the appearances. Don't worry about what is appearing and disappearing. Just look at who is watching these appearances. Who is looking at them? What can you say about that 'you'? Is that which is appearing and disappearing more intimate to you, or is this unchanging witnessing more intimate to you?

The witness, obviously. I can't hear you, my dear. The witness, Father. The witness.

The witness. Okay, so how about we give some concern to this witness for a change? Because you've given so much concern about that which has been appearing and disappearing, you see? So how about instead we look for what the witness wants? Because the witness is closest, you see, closer than any appearances. So what does this witness want? What can a witness want?

Nothing.

Okay, so the witness cannot want anything. And the witness is closest to what you are. Therefore, what can you want? You must be an appearance then, doing something. If the witness cannot want something, then are you an appearance that you want something?

Can I remain the witness all the time? I mean, is it possible?

Okay, you tell me how you leave the witness. I say it is impossible to leave the witness. You prove me wrong. Don't be the witness; be something else. The mind says, 'Can I remain as this all the time? Is it possible?' I am flipping the question around. I say: can you not remain as this? Can you leave and show me? Stop witnessing, become the appearance, and show me. Become an appearance. The false can never become truth, and the truth is never false. But you have the power to believe the false, and this belief is dropped away in the light of our looking. You see that there is a witnessing and then the appearance, and you find that I cannot become the appearance. Only the mind speaks to you as if you are an appearance. But even this appearance you can't find. You cannot find the appearance of the person. We can find the appearance of a body, but the body has no concern about the children. The body is not frustrated because of some life event. So this 'I' which says 'Can I remain always as the witness?' cannot, because this 'I' doesn't exist at all. It is just a voice that you are hearing and believing. That which is the witness already is you.

Father, is it really possible not to believe the thoughts that arise?

Yes, believe me. Do you believe every thought?

Yes, most of the times, yeah. But any thought can come next, no?

Any thought which will come next, you'll believe it? If the thought is saying, 'Let's go to the moon tomorrow,' will you believe it?

No.

Why? Why is it not needed to believe our thoughts? Because the thoughts are always referring to you as the non-existent one. No thought is meaningful to that which you really are, to awareness. No thought is meaningful to that which you are playing as, which is consciousness. Because God doesn't need a thought, and only God is. Therefore, there must be a belief somewhere that there is consciousness and there is a person, and these personal thoughts. But this person you cannot find. It is running this universe. That which is running your body right now, what thought is it using to run your body, to beat your heartbeat, for all the organs to be functioning? So if your body is functioning on its own, the world is functioning on its own, what is this person controlling? Otherwise, it's not so easy to implement this.

Because you are buying all this.

Okay, keep this one as 'I' next. Don't believe the idea that it is not so easy to implement. Then right now, you have some trouble? Are you suffering right now in this moment, this instant?

No.

No. Now don't buy a thought. Remain here. Stay still. Let everything come and go. You don't move. Let the body move, but you don't move. Suffering now?

No.

No. You stay here. Is there anything difficult about this? Don't pick up a thought. Go with your own direct seeing. What's so difficult? Isn't it natural? You are just here now. Suffering?

No.

Now, you can only suffer if you buy some thought. So when the thought comes, 'But what about my children?' then the inquiry is: whose children? Who is speaking to whom? The thought is who, and it wants to speak to who? Let God be the parent, because only God is.

Father, and I guess I'm too involved in their lives.

Yes, but don't pick up this 'I', you see? Any time you pick up the thought, you pick up the idea that you are this 'I'. God is very involved in God's life, you know? We used to play like this few months, so many years ago. Say for a day, don't use the word 'I'. Say 'God', even if it sounds like the most arrogant thing. So now speak as God, let's see.

And I didn't have this question on my mind then. When would I awaken? I still can't hear you, my dear. Maybe the mic of your device is not close to you. When would I awaken?

When would God awaken is the question? See, because we ourselves say God is everywhere. If God is everywhere, then there cannot be a 'me' and a God. Are you? Yes, God is all there is. We cannot find this person. We looked, we looked, we looked. This being we cannot stop. This is consciousness, this is beingness, this is that 'I Am' which is referred to in the Bible as 'I Am that I Am'. God says so. This we can find. So let's use that biblical definition. 'I am here' means God is here. There is no separate one here. Many of us have this idea that there is a person sitting inside our heads or something and driving from there, could press buttons, move the hand. The controller is like a person sitting there inside the head, 'I'm controlling this life.' But then the brain surgeon would find it? No, nothing like that is found. You also say that?

Yes, yes, all this is fine. But actually, I know that my brain is doing everything. My brain is doing everything, you see.

So do we not know how to control our brain? Do we know how to even fire one neuron in our brain? If the brain is doing everything, you are still irrelevant. Because then the brain has gone whichever way it looks at it. The seeming person is completely irrelevant.

Irrelevant? No, very good. So finally, how do I get rid of this person, Father?

How does God get rid of the person? Yes, because God saw that there is no person. If you finally knew this, you would treat the person as irrelevant. But if you cannot even find that which you want to get rid of, then how to treat this? Besides your thoughts, is there anything which tells you that you are a person? The presence that you experience is not personal. The awareness of this presence is not personal. This body does not want freedom, doesn't want to get rid of the person, doesn't want any of this. It is an innocent instrument. If you don't believe these thoughts, is there any evidence of this person?

No.

Why you want to get rid of that which you cannot even find? Let me put it to you another way. Okay, suppose you came into Satsang and I looked at you and I found the person and I got rid of it, okay? Then I said the person is actually gone. It was here, okay, it was here, but I have taken it away. But the only thing that is left is that these thoughts will come which still belong to this person. You don't bother about them. How's that? Yeah, so someone the other day, we went for a movie together, all of us. So they asked me, 'So Father, what is your superpower?' Just playfully somebody asked. Now suppose my superpower is this: I look into your eyes and I remove the person. But I say that, you know, there will be some withdrawal symptoms. There will be some thoughts which will come which still will belong to that person. Just like when you shift into a new house, you see, you still get some mail for the previous one. So I've removed your this one and have given you this house to yourself, but you will still get some mail for the previous tenant. So don't open that mail. Don't believe that mail is for you. Then how is it? You say, 'I want to get rid of the person.' I say, 'No, you come to Satsang, I get rid of it for you.' Then gone. Now, do you pay the bills for the previous one who used to live in your house?

No.

Isn't it? So then don't pay this bill of suffering for that which does not exist now. So the mail is coming. The next letter came. It's saying, 'No, he's just making it sound too easy. Actually, it's not like that.' Now, are you going to believe that mail, or are you going to believe me?

Thank you so much, Father.