How Can I See without My Mind? - Jan.1, 2015

Feeling such a beautiful step forward. Is there a thing as a step forward? This itself is such a beautiful step forward because many get stuck here and they start believing their mind about this awareness or this consciousness. But with you now, this is also exploding. You see, this concept that what the mind could be telling me about awareness is complete rubbish. At best, it has been painting some pictures for me. But if you tell me to see without my mind, actually I don't know how to do that.

You do that all the time. Are you seeing with your mind now?

No. You are witnessing. The mind comes later. The mind comes—so there's witnessing, then being is there, and after being, then mind is created. You see, mind is much later.

It feels like my witnessing is happening through my perception, and perception is the mind, isn't it? It feels like it's happening through my mind, that that witnessing is—that my mind is witnessing it.

Witnessing now. The handover of witnessing to the mind and say, 'What do you feel about this?' Witnessing is happening very naturally. Very naturally. Mind is just a bundle of thoughts and similar energies, okay? You will also say that it is not a continuous flow of thoughts. You will say thought comes, then maybe just even a millisecond gap, then another thought comes. But then you can witness the gap also. And this gap is called the no-mind state. This gap is called the no-mind state. So then how can we see that witnessing of this gap is also happening through the mind? It cannot be, because the gap itself is the no-mind state. So you are witnessing very naturally right now. Very naturally you are aware in this moment, completely naturally. No reliance on the mind. You cannot stop it, actually. You need to try. Awareness cannot be stopped. You could say, 'I'm aware of this, I'm aware of that, I'm aware of nothing at all,' but you cannot say awareness itself was not there. Then where is the dependency on the mind? The seeker will try to use the mind to say that, 'Okay, now I have understood what awareness is.' Who is witnessing now? The mind cannot witness. The mind can only give you these energy—these energies. Who is aware of this movement? Who is aware of this movement? Is it the mind or is it you?

Not the mind, but I don't know what it is.

The mind cannot know what it is. If I'm saying it's not the mind, then who's saying that? How did I know that without using the mind? You see that it is not the mind, and then we can say we use the mind to come up with these words, to use the words, because the mind is used as an instrument for communication. But to witness or to see that I am aware now, you're not using the mind. The mind cannot witness. It has—it does not have awareness to be able to witness something. And what does this witnessing need?

You know, it just feels like it's just there. Something is there. But I still feel a sense of, um, as you're saying earlier, like an—like an investment of how this body should be. Like—like a judgment, or this—this movie or these scenes aren't as fun as something else I could have. So there's—there's an awareness that something's there, that it's just there, and then I'm also there is nothing awareness.

Okay, so let's—let's take it really slowly. Is it there or here? Because the mind will say that it is there. Where is it actually? Don't make a visual out of it, you see.

Yes, it's giving me some visual.

Yes, because when you say 'there,' I can sense that you're speaking about a visual witnessing awareness. Here's—here. The seeing, pure seeing, is here. You are seeing something doesn't want to accept that the seeing doesn't—is untouched, like not bothered, like—

Yes, yes.

This mind does not want to accept, but the truth will prevail, isn't it? It is undeniable that awareness is here. You are aware now. The mind wants to make something out of this. It wants to derive some meaning from this. 'Okay, awareness is here. Does this mean I'm free?' This is what the mind is saying. You have only ever been this awareness, and there is no meaning in the word 'free' also for awareness. Awareness does not know bondage; therefore, it cannot be bound or free. And the seeker can use all kinds of things. 'Okay, but now if you're free, then why is your body still like this?' That's why maybe there is some merit in our stories, you see. There is some merit in our stories. You all heard about Ashtavakra, this sage who had—whose body was deformed in seven—how many? Eight places. Yeah, there were sages like that. Then they could be the most beautifully formed body that a sage could have. So both is possible. But were they concerned about what the body was? I don't believe so. So this sense of concern is still—it's a mind—mind idea that's making it feel like—

Yes.

Because listen to his life. The being is not concerned. The being is not concerned by the state of the body. Then who is concerned? If it is not the witnessing, it is not the being, then who is concerned? They're thoughts, and then something is believing these thoughts. So as being itself, you have the power of belief, and with this belief, you pretend to be bound. And that's why my simple pointing, 'Don't believe your next thought,' is all about this. It's actually being telling me not to believe the next thought so it doesn't delude itself to be a person. It's not personal advice.

So what is, um, because well since—so just before that belief is happening, um, I can only see after, like after five minutes of it. 'Oh, I believed for five minutes all these thoughts.' So even when I sit and contemplate, I cannot catch before belief. It's always after. I think, 'Oh, believed.' Like something is—I don't understand what that—what it—what is it? What is happening there? Because I think attention going—

You're believing the thought that you're believing thoughts on its own. You're believing the thought that you're believing thoughts automatically. See, your thought comes and said, 'See, you believed all those five minutes ago.' Automatically on there. All that is required in this moment to not believe this. Doesn't matter about the past. Wait for your next thought and tell me what it is.

Says I'm going to believe the thoughts. It says that.

Do you believe it?

Something's buying it.

Yeah, so this something—this something you must not give energy to this easy, because it's been nourished. It seemed like it got nourished in the meanwhile since we last spoke. This—this one nourished that 'I'm going to believe it,' because something doesn't—the person idea, the sense of separation, doesn't want to let go. And with this simple cutting off of belief, you cannot sustain the person. So it's just not my testimony. There are many in this hangout who can testify to the fact that belief is much more manageable than attention. Otherwise, the mind can also say, 'But okay, this one is a rare one. Maybe he had the power not to believe, but he's talk—I am just a mere person' or something like that. It's all rubbish. There is no difference between us. So are you telling me that the thought could be anything and you'll believe it? Because the thought says, 'Okay, you're sitting in the—in the Sahara Desert.' Will you believe it then? If it's automatic, it should have happened. Doesn't it have some kind of juice like—

Yeah, yes.

So it's very good to see this. That means it shows you that some concepts have been nourished about the person that you are, and these concepts to have some use or some power to push your buttons. And in this way, you are exposing which identity still seems to be strong. And this is also grace then, because you can simply say, 'Where is the seeker? Who are you talking to? Who should find freedom?' So if the seeker identity which gets the most belief, then we can look at—see, is there really a seeker over there? About a seeker, who is this one?

Something wants to scream. Something wants to say, 'It's me, it's me, it's me.' This means—

And I'm not scared of—if it feels strong for you, you can say like that. You know, sometimes it has to be—come out in this frustration and be vomited out. Sometimes you don't have to be nice guys. Something seems strong that 'It's me.' What are you talking about?

Yeah, yesterday I thought—I felt like banging my head on the wall because I was just—yeah, I was frustrated because it's like, 'Oh, I—I can see that that seeker is not really real.' But then because it feels like this battle going on and that's—

Yes, and you are aware. This battle also you are aware of. And the awareness of the battle was untouched by the battle. This is the ultimate good news, you see. No matter what happens, you are untouched. Show me how you are not awareness right now. Show me how you are something else.

Um, now I can only say there's something else that—yeah, I just feel it's the body and the thought that is—that feels like it's something else.

But are you able to actually separate yourself from awareness? Stop being aware and then become a body. It's not possible because you're still aware of the body. Just like you are aware of a dream body in a dream, you are aware of this body now. The bodies will come and go, but your awareness is the same.

The thoughts that I find very hot—I find hard to not believe or give belief are the ones to do with the body sometimes. Like, or like if there's more pain, it's like, 'Oh, something's gonna happen.' And then it—it's like I—it's like, 'Oh, you need to believe this.' So—

Awareness cannot stop being aware and then become a body. It's not possible because you're still aware of the body, just like you are aware of a dream body in a dream. You are aware of this body now. The bodies will come and go, but your awareness is the same.

The thoughts that I find very hard to not believe, or give belief to, are the ones to do with the body sometimes. Like, if there's more pain, it's like, 'Oh, something's going to happen.' And then it's like, 'Oh, you need to believe this so I can take care of it.'

Okay, very good. So let's look at it like this. These thoughts are telling me how to take care of my body. So, give me a thought which will make your body eternal, which will prevent it from dying. Let's take care of it, but let's have a permanent solution, not something just for ten, twenty, fifty, sixty years. How does it help? Let's find a thought which gives you a permanent solution to the body. Let's make the body... does the mind have an answer? No. So you are aware of this body. You will be aware of the dissolution of the body. You will see this body die. You have seen it give birth also. And many bodies in one night—you can have many bodies coming in. How will the mind take care of the body? How long will it take? Will it prevent the body from getting old? What will happen? Take care of the body? Nothing. You never know; you might find yourself crossing the road and a car runs over you. Then, sorry, it's a little morbid, but it has to be. Settling as awareness, you are untouched irrespective of what happens to the body.

And the mind has been trying to help you for so many years with the body, isn't it? Yet there's so much concern about the body. Has it been successful in this approach? And how long will we listen to this false teacher who doesn't know anything at all? Nothing at all. It means it just got you hypnotized by making you fearful. God is carrying this body. God is taking care of this body. Let the one who has given the body take care of the body. There is nobody else here anyway. There is only God. How can an imagined entity take care of anything at all? Do you see that the person is completely imagined or not?

When I sit and contemplate, yeah, I can never find a person. But then there are other movements, like yesterday, when I felt like I was trying to find this, it just felt like, 'Oh, I am this entity that's suffering.' So I feel like I haven't really seen I'm not a person. If I'd really seen that, I wouldn't be suffering.

No, it can be like this, you see. Because what happens... I take this example often, but I'm not sure if you've heard it before, so let me repeat it. It can seem like for millions of years I believed, because I was always told, that the sun rises from the west. And in this belief, somehow I tend to suffer. Then someone comes along and says, 'No, no, no. Look, look. The sun rises from the east, actually.' And then the first time you hear this, you're like, 'No, what are you saying?' They say, 'Okay, don't take my word for it. You go and check for yourself.' Then you wake up the next morning and say, 'Yes, and this actually rises from the east.' Like saying that I check and I find no person.

But there is millions of years of conditioning about the body. So then you say, 'Okay, maybe I was deluded, or maybe this one threw some magic powder in my eyes or something. Or maybe it just came up like this only that day. Maybe every day for millions of years it came up from the west, but for some reason today it came up from the east,' you see. So next morning you wake up and you miss the sunrise; you had a late night and you woke up at noon. So there's no way for you to check. So you say, 'Yes, it was all rubbish. The sun actually must be coming from the west. Must be. I must be a person. I must be a person.' So what can I do? I can at best again tell you: check again. Check it again. And when you check and say, 'Yes, again east,' maybe he is controlling the sun? Just keep checking. Check again. No person.

So in the beginning, it can seem like this flip-flop. This energy can come strongly to react. But after you keep checking over and over, then no need to check. Now it's clear. Only when some suffering comes, then we say, 'Okay, what's happening? Who's suffering?' You see no person. Then vigilance becomes very simple like this. It's not a constant 'Am I home? Am I home?' Not like this. That would not be free if we all turned into these robots. You don't need to be vigilant like this completely, you know? Some have taken it like this. When they hear the word vigilance, they have taken it like this: constant, constant. Okay, just something pushes a button, we say, 'Oh, what is this identity?' You must just let go of it. In a few seconds, it's gone. Mostly like this. But you don't pick up the concept of a person until you have checked that there is a person. Because I can guarantee you that every time you check, you will not find one.

The mind will come and say, 'No need to check, no need to check. I'm sure, I'm sure I'm a person.' This one who is concerned about freedom, this one who is concerned about the body, is not you. It's just an idea. And even if you are the body, the body is going to die. So what's the big deal? If it is possible that you die, then there would be nobody there to be concerned anyway.

But actually, it feels like it is my body. It doesn't feel like I am the body; it feels like it is my body. It is something that I own.

This is the trick. But this 'my' does not exist. Are you believing something now?

Yeah, I just... especially... it's like my... I just had a thought that came saying, 'Oh, I'm so tired. I want to stop satsang now.' And I thought, 'Oh, I didn't believe it,' but it just... and then I just feel like I want to lie down and go to sleep. This is one of the trump cards of the mind in satsang. And just this sense... the sense is just, yeah, I just want to close my eyes and go to sleep.

It's good when you smile, and then you don't have to work hard to smother your smile. I notice this with her every time. She's smiling very beautifully, everything is clear, and then something comes that, 'No, I must see that... what's the first... how can you be happy? How can there be happiness? How can you be happy when all of this is going on?' You know, like with the body. And you're showing... no, you're showing how you can be happy with all this. Don't try to convince your mind about anything. Don't try to win the argument with the mind. See what is that old saying? 'Never argue with a fool; they will bring you down to their level and they beat you because they have more practice.' This is like arguing with the mind, because you have to come down to the level of being a person, and then they are the experts at creating suffering. So you will not be able to win with this approach. Look at the mind from your true perspective as awareness and let the mind bark. Let it do whatever it wants. You are unconcerned. Thank you. Very good. Very good. Don't take on the burden of freedom. It's not your problem now. The truth is not your problem now. As long as you keep coming to satsang, it is my problem. Thank you.