Even 'You' Must Leave - 22th April 2016

With Father, all the time I see the truth, I realize the truth. Other times, it would just be an idea for me. Okay, this is not bad at everything; I can see it's just a product of the mind till I come to the realization of the truth. Okay, so with the witness to the mind, is that also the mind? Because in the mind itself comes and says, 'But everything is coming from the mind.' Then who sees these thoughts? And the mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts and similar energies. Who perceives these thoughts? Is that something coming and going like the mind, like thoughts? Is that which witnesses thoughts also coming and going? So, whether there are thoughts or no thoughts, does that mean that there is no you on the basis of there being a thought or no thought? Do you vanish when the thought vanishes?

First, we stay here. First, we start the inquiry. Let's finish that. I will promise I tell you that right now you are just looking and we are seeing that you said, 'Everything I say comes from the mind.' So I say, let's use that instead of running away from it. Let's use it. How is the mind experienced? As a thought. So, when the thought comes, that is witnessed. Then the thought goes; that is also witnessed. So, does the witness also go away with the going away of the thought? Are you still here as the witness?

Yeah, the witness is always there. The witness is already here now.

Same thing can be said about everything with outside appearances. Inside... I think we've lost him. We'll just wait for him to reconnect. Sorry. Yes. And it said that I noticed like applying... yeah, because when you freeze and you fall out, it takes like a second for your little thing to disappear and then you can... and I'm going to eject you because otherwise you can't come back in. A little piece is awesome. Thank you. Thank you. So, just like this appearance changed... no, one second, hang on one second. No, hang on a second. All of you, look. You see, and yet I was here. So, at what point do I go? When what is taken away for me to be taken away? That is what we are exploring. Because that which is the truth, that which is eternal, which is the unborn, undying one—that is what we are looking for. So, let's see what is it that can be taken away and yet I still remain.

So, we already saw that outside appearances, whether they are present or not, I am still here. Then the inside experiences, where there is no sense of the body... this is actually... we are so obsessed with this sense of body consciousness that we don't realize that we become aware of the body only when there is a sensation in the body that pulls us in. Otherwise, we don't feel we are the body. So, someone comes and pulls your ears now, then you'll become aware of your ear. Before that, you were not aware of your ear. So, the body also can go away and yet I remain. All thoughts are coming and going anyway; I am still here. Emotions also coming and going; I am still here. So, this 'I' which remained irrespective of that which is appearing and disappearing—this is the 'I' that we are discovering. But isn't it already here? Aren't you already that? Is there any effort in this?

Is it difficult? Sometimes, Father, the thoughts are so powerful that they make it really difficult to see.

Yes, but right now? Right now, it's all about the now, actually. That which is seen, I am witnessing; therefore, I am not that which is seen. For now, we can work with the simple concept. So, what is seen? Outside world is seen, and our thoughts and emotions are all perceived or seen. But you are still here as the witness of them, isn't it? Is this witness more authentic, more original, more intimate to what you are, or are these appearances more intimate to what you are? What's happening now? Witnessing. See, again, there's nothing but witnessing now. What can trouble the witnessing? But some say there is so much of molestation by the thoughts. How will a thought molest witnessing? This thought can come now, which can actually molest the witnessing itself? To sensations arising in the body—those are witnessing of them. It is a witnessing of them. But is this witnessing affected by any of them? For all of them, there is a witnessing of them. Is the witnessing touched or affected by any of them? You can check right now. And please don't go into any projections right now. You see some strong or some uncomfortable sensations are arising; we can check now that this sense of discomfort, is it happening to the witnessing or happening to the body? The body is experienced as some sensations, isn't it? Who is suffering from these sensations? Is the witnessing also suffering in this?

Subtle.

This is very subtle. It will become very, very obvious, actually. And you will find that actually nothing can make this witnessing suffer. So, anytime that I say, 'I am suffering,' what are we actually saying? That I am something other than this. But you cannot be anything other than this. Every time we say something is happening to me, we are referring to ourselves as that which is not existent. And this checking—that I remain untouched through all of this play of appearances—is a beautiful checking even for the sages. So, something is... checking that, notice where the resistance is coming from. You are coming to the discovery that you cannot be harmed, you cannot be attacked, and you need no defenses. And as you discover this, all openness, resistance will flow away from ideas of 'this must happen' and 'this must not happen,' 'it must only be this way, not be another way,' 'why is this happening to me?' When you see that I remain as the untouched witnessing no matter how strong the appearance is, then our life becomes an expression of this freedom. Okay? You contemplate this. There's a bit of a queue building up, so we'll look at some questions, then you can come back if you have something to report from here.

Here is Shivani. She says, 'Father, I think here it is still someone trying to get something and then do something. I think here it is still someone trying to get something, that something being an end to suffering. Because I noticed recently there was an expectation of love, not devotion love, and also to the feeling it is more motivated by finding out who I am. Fail to expose this, Father. Actually, no, still just a belief that there someone exists.' There is some motivation in this beginning of this spiritual search for self-discovery. The most common motivation is this one: 'I don't want to suffer anymore.' And most spiritual paths are full of practices and concepts and teachings which help us to come to the end of suffering. In satsang like this, we've come to this directness. We can see, oh, suffering—the cause of suffering is only the belief in an idea about myself. And how do we give this belief to ideas about ourselves? Only by believing our thoughts. No idea about myself is really about myself, not about my true Self. All ideas are about this personal identity. So, if we pick up an idea about ourselves, we are picking up some personal identity because all ideas are personal. Even the idea that 'I still only want freedom from suffering and not self-discovery' is an idea about who? It's about an entity, a seeming entity which does not exist. You see?

So, you say, 'Here it is still as someone trying to get something,' and what you mean is that you are living in the existence of this someone which you yourself said is just a belief that this someone exists. But there is nobody like this. There is nobody called Shivani. There is nobody called Ananta in reality. And we looked and we looked and we looked for this somebody, and we found that it does not exist. So, how can this non-existent nobody come to the end of suffering? Suffering is only the idea, the belief that this nobody actually can come into existence. And as long as we buy into the existence of this somebody, then it is bound to come with some expectations. How should this somebody's life be like? What should he or she have in their lives? What should not come? What should come? The belief in my existence as somebody is the root of all suffering. So often now we know that we are finding ourselves to be this nameless, formless one. So, upon looking, we won't find this one which wants something or doesn't want something. We find ourself to be this nameless, formless one. This is what we find because we see that all appearances are appearing to that one which is nameless and formless, just the awareness itself.

This is the comedy of life. We never find the one that we always presume ourself to be, and the one that we truly find every time we check, we are in constant denial of that. We never find the person. If I tell any of you, 'Let's find the person,' who's looking? Looking, looking, it's so much hard work, you still don't find. And yet that gets our allegiance. We do find, we look at all that is appearing, we find that I am here as awareness itself, which is untouched by any appearance. This we want to deny because there is so much belief in the identity. So, satsang is where we come to break this belief in the false identity. And we've become so used to just mental confirmation that even after checking this and finding no person here and finding only this awareness as what you truly are, we'll come and say, 'Oh, but I still don't know if this is true or not for me. I still don't know if I'm there yet. Am I really seeing this to be true?' Yes, this is your experience. Whether the mind confirms it or not, you are the primal witnessing of all appearances. There is nothing that anyone can do about this fact. It is the truth. It is reality.

And then, 'Father, it was just when you said earlier about the reason... so being here in satsang is usually the devotion or the wanting to know who I am. I felt like neither of these to be the reason.' But I know that both of these are true for you, so don't buy this story. Then you say, 'It feels more there is an underlying annoyance of a feeling of suffering which feels like no motivation.' Yes, yes. This actually goes to... we can add to the valid reasons to be in satsang that we want to come to the end of suffering. And once we want to come to the end of suffering, then that activates the urge for self-discovery to be free from that. And as long as we are not buying some idea about ourselves, we are already free from that. The end of suffering is always right now. As long as we are not buying some idea about the future, it is the end of suffering. The end of future suffering is not what we are talking about right now. It is impossible for you to suffer unless you believe a thought about yourselves. This shouldn't be true or not right now. Unless you pick up an idea, you cannot suffer.

For self-discovery to be free from that, and as long as we are not buying some idea about ourselves, we are already free from that. The end of suffering is always right now. As long as we are buying some idea about the future, it is not the end of suffering. The end of future suffering is not what we are talking about right now. It is impossible for you to suffer unless you believe a thought about yourselves. This should be true, no? Right now, unless you pick up an idea, you cannot suffer. Even if the body is in pain, you cannot suffer. And nobody can force you to pick up an idea. Nobody forces you. It is that there seems to be some sort of an addiction to ideas, and that's why we come to satsang, to withdraw away from these ideas. And this kind of withdrawal, you can have all kinds of symptoms initially. You say, 'I can't be without these ideas of myself. What will happen to me in the future? You are not telling me about how my life is going to be.' There's so much fear here. All of this, all of these are the words of resistance until you are free from this habit of consuming thoughts. When you find that there is nobody here that can be hurt by any appearance in this universe, even by the end of the universe you cannot be hurt. You. The end of suffering is not personal. It is the end of the person identity, which is the end of suffering. Then the suffering is not a personal gift; it cannot be received personally, cannot be given personally. It can only be pointed to you, you, you.

Ananta—may I come? Who said something again? Lucia? Lucia, okay, come. My vehicle, thank you.

And that exploration, I'm with the sense of silence and there's something that wonders if this is awareness or is it that there's something being suppressed? So I wanted to ask.

It is good to look together in the contemplation. You say that there was an experiencing of silence. Yes? The silence means that there were no words there, but there was no appearance there. Now, what is the meaning of this silence?

There's no thoughts and it's quiet. Yes, it's extremely, it's really, really quiet and very... it's really quiet. And at this point in this quiet, and I feel it right now in my heart, I ask help. It's too quiet. Oh, that's too quiet.

There was, before there was quiet, there was a sense of noise. In relation to the quietness, it was noisy. You were aware of this, and then you were aware of this quiet, very quietness. And then you are aware of the appearance of this fear which came along with the message, 'It was too quiet. This is scary.' Now, what happened to this awareness in all three of these states? Did it change in any way?

No, but the fear is really strong right now. Right in this, in this now, it's like, oh, Ananta, yes, I'm... it's observable, but the fear is witnessed.

Yes, so this fear must be allowed to be released right now. Don't try to contain it. Even if you have to scream, it's okay. Don't worry about it.

Well, it's almost 11:30 p.m. here in California, so I must scream into my pillow so I don't scare my neighbors. Yeah, it's very scary. Something, there is just this energy in my heart chakra that just... ahh, this is very scary.

So let this fear get delivered in this way. It's very good, actually. Hmm. What is this fear? Anything at all? Don't try to push it out. Don't try to hide or wrap it. Don't say it's good or bad. Anything at all?

There's the shaking. I am, I'm shaking. Yeah, yeah. Alright, alright. So my death is just this energy in my... oh, scary, scary. And I'm seeing it. Oh, a little bit... I'm aware of it. And there's something that wants to cry. It feels like a little girl is inside of me and she was jumping up and down screaming and crying like, 'I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm scared!'

Yes, let her be, let her be. Let her jump about as much as she likes. And she's the one saying, 'Help, help.' She's saying, 'Daddy, help, I'm scared.' We have time. There's no rush. Let all this flow through you. Don't do anything to it at all. The dropping of the person is not always pretty.

I know. I was thinking, 'Oh great, this is being recorded,' but it's scary. I'm just really scared. And I hit this place before. I've hit a wall before when I've been with this fear.

The wall is here. Fear is here. And you are able to see already this awareness is untouched by this fear. So there is nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go about hitting a wall. It is just allowed to happen, and to see that you remain untouched even in this fear. It is that part of you which is untouched, but actually that is the whole within which the small part of the appearance called fear is just jumping about. Even if it feels like there's a part of you which remains untouched, you see that this is where I am. This is the truth of who I am. This is untouched witnessing. And this one is not to control any appearance. It's not saying it'll cry, do any of them.

I don't even know why I'm crying, but it's okay. There's nothing wrong with crying. It's a good thing. I know, I tell my clients that all the time. I told them that all day today. Not here, I'm crying. It's kind of funny. There's a sadness. There's nowhere to go. I'm here, I am. I'm saying nowhere to go. I can't run anymore. Nowhere to go. The silence is scaring me to death.

The silence does not scare you to death. It is scary for the one that never existed. It is scared of this dissolution of the false identity.

Was that the dissolution that I started to feel a couple weeks ago in the restaurant at work? Like, 'Well, I can't do it.' Oh, and here I am. Here it is. Anything here? I wish I could put my head in your lap. I don't even know why I'm crying. Oh, no thought. Don't know anything at all. Oh, I don't know anything at all. I don't even know what day it is.

Hmm.

Fifty people smiling and laughing at what? I don't know why. It's so tangible, the silence. I'm afraid I'm suppressing something because it's so silent.

The silence can never, the silence can never harm you. If there was something to attack you, it would not be this silence. No.

It would probably be pretty nice if it wanted to attack me. Yeah, it is the noisy one that is being attacked or dissolved. No idea. There is a real noisy one over here. It's been a long time now. What helps? Because he's missing. Hell, yeah. I don't know what to do. Yeah, I don't know whether they're here.

See, this one wants to engage in some way. It wants to break the silence. But as long as you keep coming with the silence, it will resign. The silence is inescapable.

You know what? The very first time I saw you, somebody had posted... it was after Rishikesh, and somebody posted in the Mooji Sangha Facebook group about your silent retreat. I'd never heard of you. And you know, I thought, 'Okay, what the heck, check it out,' because I was still in the Rishikesh mood. Okay, so I went to hear your first retreat. You know, the first night, well, for me it was night, I think it was your Saturday morning was my Friday night. And watching you sit there, it was kind of relaxing, you know, like, 'Ah.' I was like, 'Who is this guy, first of all?' Like, he's just chilling out, you know? I'm used to Mooji, I'm used to Mooji being like more... and he's like really... and then the second thing was I couldn't understand a word you were saying. Like, 'Oh my god, I have to study his Indian accent,' you know? To me, an Indian accent... no, I couldn't understand you. And I know a lot of Indian people, there are a lot of them around here, but heavily... I can't understand this guy at all. And then the third thing was the silence. Your silence scared the hell out of me. Like, 'Oh my god, it's so silent.' I couldn't bear it. I couldn't stand it the first night. So I shut it down and I went to listen to some of your videos so I could start to understand how you spoke. Came back the next day and again it was like, 'I can't stand the silence.' It was like, 'Oh my god, more silence than anyone, anything I'd ever experienced.' Even with Mooji, it's hard to believe. And then by the third night or so, I fell in love with you. Oh, and then it was okay. I was like, 'Okay, I can deal with this. I think I can deal with this.' And I figured I have it, you know? I've trained my ear to understand, you know? It's like, I know what my problem was before. So it's the silence, that's what I think drew me to you is the silence. First it scared me to death, then it was like, 'Okay, I'm hooked.' And I feel like I can... now, as soon as I stop talking in this minute, there's the silence. How do I be silent and talk at the same time?

It is possible. Once you get used to the silence, then all talking can come from there. It doesn't break any silence. This talking, which is only the intuitive presence which is speaking, is not in opposition to any silence.

I was thinking today when I was... well, I had many clients today, they were really noisy. Oh my god, whew! And I was trying to be silent and I was like trying to be quiet in my head and just be there. And I did a pretty good job. I kept thinking, 'How am I going to be silent with all these really noisy persons?' You know? Oh, how do you do it? And how do you do it? I'm asking you, how do you do this?

What not to do? So here is apparently silence and there's a lot of us noisy ones around. On its own, very naturally, the recognition of the Self and the allowing of this simple presence to unfold in its own way, that there's no sense of control, there's no sense of even how silent or noisy it must be. Then all of this play is left to grace. That there is no trouble in any of this, actually. I read a quote about a Rumi quote. Somebody asks Rumi, 'Rumi, you speak so often of silence and yet you're speaking all the time.' And he said something, I am paraphrasing, he said, 'The silent one has never spoken.' Something like that.

Thank you for your presence. I love you very much.

Thank you, I love you too. I know very much firsthand how this can seem fearful, this silence. Some of you know the story where one day, actually, or at least some time before I met Guruji, it happened that one day I resolved not to leave the self-inquiry until I discover the Self. Because the one had said, 'You do the self-inquiry and you will find the Self, and don't leave it till you do.' One day I said, 'I don't care what happens,' and sat down at 'Who am I?' and just... it's a beautiful self-inquiry. Who am I? Thoughts came, 'Who is the witness of these?' And after a while, everything became so silent, just quiet. And there was the sense that a long time had passed in this silence, and then some fear, like you see, started to come. And the message that it told me, this fear, was, 'Stop this now. I will give you a good life.' For example, the combo punch was it said, 'Deal?' Hey, deal? So the mind itself said, 'Stop, I'll give you a good life,' and it said, 'Deal?' And I reported it without the inquiry. And there was so much guilt. See, now you were discovering the Self, everything became so quiet, and yet you made the deal with the devil, sold your soul to the devil. This kind of stuff, this nonsense started coming up with both the offer and the acceptance of the deal. Both were the mind. I was still only the witness of it. Aha! So that is why the presence of a living master is so beautiful in our lives, because all this nonsense is not your display; it can be discarded very easily. Then it became clear that all of the mind's tricks can be very tricky, actually. And it uses all fear, every appearance possible, to convince you to bring you back into your personal identity. It can use Advaita, it can even use knowledge questions. Just this simple addiction to thoughts, just by giving you the... it gives you these deals in the mind. 'Okay, now this is a good option for me to ask this question,' or it distracts you away from this. The sense of this dissolution gives you some new lollipop, you know? Thank you, thank you for doing this.

So welcome, my dear. All reason, yeah. Thank you very much. Your energy and your devotion, I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Okay, this has happened before a few times now. First was Shivani, then with this person. And then I realized that I'm speaking with some Indian accent because I just don't laugh. I'm speaking to you like I just...

Is it okay for me to ask this question, or it distracts you away from this? The sense of this dissolution gives you some new lollipop, you know. Thank you. Thank you for doing this.

So welcome, my dear. All reason, yeah. Thank you very much. Your energy and your devotion, I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Okay, this has happened before a few times now. First was Shivani, then with the person in the river. It is realized that I'm speaking with some Indian accent because I just don't... I'm speaking, and I just can't get you at the board. If you have an accent... we have a lot of Indians in Northern California here where I live, and so I'm used to it. Like, okay, whatever. But I could not understand you at all. I had to listen to your YouTubes for a little bit, a couple days, and then okay, now I can get it. Alright, now I'm like, yeah, I understand. No problem. The vision is not really the accent so much, it's more that I'm a move on the Lord. I said, like, it's okay now. I don't know, I don't feel around like Rajneesh or something, it's big bacteria river.

No, you don't feel like him at all. You don't sound like him. He's more like an American Indian actually at this point.

Yeah, many times it happened. After that, Shivani told me that some would come and say, 'I just can't understand you. I just have to read the transcript too because I don't get what you say.' I said, 'Is it the content of what is being said or the way it is being said?' And she said, 'Both.' So I just... it's okay. The transcripts are there. And now she wrote to me and said, 'I don't know why I was... it's okay what you're saying, both what you are and how you say it.' So here now, so the mind ruminating on it.

Yeah, yeah. And maybe we're all used to Mooji in his Jamaican accent, so like, that's how it's supposed to sound, right? Like a reggae guy, you know? He's the reggae Mooji. And so then we have these other people, you know, like you're speaking it in your native language, like, 'What are you saying?' You don't sound like Mooji or Gangaji or Adyashanti or anybody else, you know. Robert Spira, you don't sound like him either. In a good way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our time is simply a mind-conducted study, hard to find one, you know.

Yeah, you don't have to take this personally. Just observations from this mind over here. It's okay.

That's all. My God, me, there's one man even less than you. I understand you. Language altogether, I never heard them speak some hopes to this. All right, oh thank God for YouTube videos. Yes, okay. Thank you, my dear. I'll release the floor to somebody else. Okay, thank you. I do.

Okay, some questions. He says, 'As awareness, I speak words coming out of the mouth.' And then he says, 'And if that is the case, where is the location of consciousness and awareness? Is the sense I am that we feel on waking up equivalent to attention dropping to its source on being asked, am I aware?'

That shows that I exist. When we try to fit awareness and consciousness in terms of time and space, then it is bound to be a futile exercise because what is being introduced here is that which you are. It is prior to any concept of time and space. Something doesn't like it; it wants to know it more, but in terms of the reference points that it understands. So tell me where awareness is. If awareness is here, can't you show me the location of awareness? No, because it is not here spatially. It is not here phenomenally. Even consciousness, which gives birth to time and space and to this entire manifest play, can we find its location within this? So all attempts to make a good spiritual conceptual framework of awareness and consciousness fail when we come to this point. That is where all concepts, all answers will fail. But what does not fail is the correct experience of your own Self. So don't be in a rush to make a report out of it. See that you are even prior to being and see if you can find a location. See if you can even identify this awareness before you even try to locate it. Experience your non-phenomenal existence and then you will see that all attempts to give it phenomenal color, either in time or space, are completely futile and none of these concepts are helpful. You don't need to fill up your bag of concepts anymore. Overweight of this conceptual understanding to this direct experience, you see.

So you say, what happens when the question is asked, 'Am I aware?' Now we'll go to the byproducts of this, so fast we can get there later. What is your discovery of this? Don't you find yourself to be this non-phenomenal existence prior to the I am? And as you take this for a while, you will find that all concepts of time and space don't apply to the reality of what you are. It is time and space that are within you, not awareness and consciousness within time and space. This must be your direct experience now. Then you will not say, 'So is it that I as awareness then...' like this. You will see it for yourself. You don't have to pretend to be awareness; you are. You don't have to pretend to be something that you are not. Drop the idea that 'I am because' or 'I am a seeker, I want to know something.' Drop all of these and see for yourself what you are. And then see if you want to take on the role of awareness or you see very naturally that you are this awareness itself, and whether you need any spiritual concept after that. This kind of checking we must do experientially, not conceptually.

We have another question. He said, 'Hi Ananta, it's David. Is there awareness without an entity or object to be aware of?' Okay, this is great. David in a hangout. Father, and you slow here, is going out of the screen a little bit. Okay, and also I have some sort of electrical interference, like someone hitting the area with a cell phone going off or something, some sort of like media buzz on the microphone. Very interactive in this technique. Reference what happened is that the power went off. I am enlightened. There's a big battery UPS here, maybe that is what it is because you can hear it like a whoosh. Well, at least we have you, so thank you. And David came into the hangouts audience question. Okay, very good, very quick, very serious here. Very good. Hello, my dear. I don't hear anything. Did you say something? Now we see your lips moving but not your words. Okay, yeah. Which material's mine? Actually, it's the audio which we are not getting. Now we still don't hear you. So let me start by answering the question that you typed and then we see, you can type some more if you like.

Is there awareness without an entity or object to be aware of? So let's take an object to start with, to be a physical object. Suppose you were to take this object, which is this long. So we take this. So the object is there and it came into our perception and it was perceived. Now the object went away, but did the awareness also go away along with that? No, there is awareness of this space which is left behind. So awareness of something or of nothing is still awareness. To be able to say that there is nothing here now also needs awareness of it, is it not? So whether there is something or nothing, there must be this awareness. It is unchanging. In the same way, when we look at our entire life experience, we go through these states of waking, dream, and sleep. These are three main experiences without even getting into the content of these three. So then there is awareness of the waking state, of the content of the waking state. If there is awareness that deep sleep comes, all that was here vanishes, and yet there is awareness that all that was here then vanished. There is nothing in sleep. All of us say this for ourselves, isn't it? All of us experience sleep, otherwise you would not know that there is something called sleep unless it is a direct experience.

So sleep can come with that which we call here in this waking state. That which we call dream state can come, the body can be different, objects can be different, people around us can be different, the entire phenomenal realm can also operate differently. So all the forces of attention, gravity, belief, light, sound, everything can operate differently. All these can also be experienced and yet the awareness of that remains untouched. It remains the same as it was in the sleep state, as it was in the prior waking state. That is why this one is called the unborn and the undying one. Irrespective of which body is being experienced, it is fit to sleep it off with a little perception or not, phenomenal experiencing or not, this remains. Now if the appearance and disappearance of these states itself does not touch this awareness, then how can some content which is appearing within these states touch this awareness? It's not possible. So if the entire state itself, the waking state, does not touch awareness in any way, then how can something appearing within the waking state touch awareness? It's not possible.

See, now what might be happening is that, and this usually happens, is that we are using awareness to be the phenomenal perceiving, that is, essentially perceiving which is happening through the eyes. So this is what we call the phenomenal perceiving which is using the instruments which are available here. But even whether this phenomenal perceiving is happening or not, you are aware of it. You know whether it is happening or not. This awareness remains untouched while phenomenal perceiving is coming up. Good. So you find that even to see that there was no object, there must be an awareness that there was no object. There is no awareness of just the object. So you need to say that there is nothing, which means that there is an awareness of that nothing. I see that nothing or I know that there is nothing, which is the same as saying I am aware that there is nothing. If it was also coming and going, if awareness was also coming and going, then you would remain as that which is aware of this coming and going, is it? So there must be a deeper awareness which is aware of this kind of comings and goings. Otherwise, the concept of coming and going is only for that which is static in relation with the coming and the going. If the act itself is coming and going, then for whom would the coming and going happen? For nobody, you see. And nobody could have a report on it. So there must be a witness of the coming and going for there to be a report that something is coming and going. So that which is coming and going, that we call an appearance. But to say that something is an appearance, there must be something here which is the seeing of that appearance.

The second part of your question was, is awareness independent or conditional on some appearance or another? That we answered now, which is it is completely independent of universal states of waking, dream, and sleep. Then it is impossible for it to be dependent on some content within any of these states. So it is not dependent on anything in the universe. The universe is dependent on anything appearing in time and space because it exists prior to that. It knows the appearance and disappearance of the universe. The universe does not know the appearance or disappearance of awareness. Therefore, from a universal perspective, we can say that awareness is the unborn and undying. Okay, little queue, why would he just get order? The queue is Shivani, then David, and Supriya. Okay, very good. Shivani, go and be ready if you have something you say. Okay, he says, 'I can see that everything is seen, but I can't find anything permanent other than the knowledge of whatever appears.' When you say knowledge, what do you mean? The knowingness, isn't it? This knowingness remains irrespective of something appearing and disappearing. Therefore, this knowingness itself is what I am calling awareness. This knowingness is not phenomenal. It is not an appearance. It witnesses all appearances. So that which you're calling knowledge, I sometimes call knowingness, sometimes I call awareness, primal witnessing, the Absolute, dissolution. All used interchangeably, not a knowledge.

Whatever appears, when you say knowledge, what do you mean? The knowingness, isn't it? This knowingness remains; it is independent of something appearing and disappearing. Therefore, this knowingness itself is what I am calling awareness. This knowingness is not phenomenal; it is not an appearance. It will diagnose all appearances. So, that which you're calling knowledge, I sometimes call knowingness, sometimes call awareness, primal witnessing, the Absolute, dissolution—all used interchangeably. Not a knowledge like, 'I know exactly.' Very crispy, yes. Very, very quick.

Thank you, Ananta. I'll take it. Okay. Oh, yes, yes, that is joking. It's good. It's finished. Well, I just wanted to come up with... if I don't come up very much, something feels like I should come on. Yes, you know, I know everyone else comes off and I feel like I'm hiding a bit. Yeah, I don't really know what to say. Yeah, there's one thing about awareness. Like, if everyone again... when we're talking, it looks like it just means, you know, it's sound, clear. The question is like, what is it? Attention that... but you know, it makes it clear. Not all know something says what I need to try and see soon. Some of your schools...

I will read it. It can never become unclear. That's because even the lack of clarity—if there's some fuzziness or something seems cloudy—then you are still aware of that, is it? So, that which is not phenomenal at all, which has no qualities and attributes, that cannot become clear or unclear. And yet...

So, yeah, you're... oh, no, anyway. But not when we go where... so what we are talking about then? If you're aware, the recognition that 'I am that' can seem fuzzy, and then that can seem to you. So, that's why when we use the pointing 'Am I aware now?' the mind struggles a lot. It doesn't know what to do with this question. And yet, it's so clear, which is even more frustrating for the mind. It finds no phenomenal evidence of awareness. Yet, for those who know, the real evidence of this awareness is yet undeniable that I'm aware. So, this is what is the mind... irrespective of the term that the mind is throwing, usually they're not able to say no. Of course, it is obvious I am aware, yet I saw nothing to confirm this. I did not have an experience to confirm this. It is just that for an instance, my attention was just at home, did not move away.

Um, this is a lag, but I don't know why. Oh, hell and hang up. But in the lag, you're always wonderful. So, this thing keeps coming up. It's like, it feels like the road's control, or when it's recognized, because it just comes like randomly, becomes on you, and then other times it was like you have to make an effort again. What? You have to make an effort? I see. Look for this which is getting like attention. This focus... it sucks because I'm following words, right? As a frustration because of that, but no control over what the next mission... suppose the woman asked, 'How are you aware?' Even before effort, it was already known. Just the effort can come in the reporting of it. The effort can come in trying to counter the mental resistance. The screaming effort can be there, but in the knowing of this, there is no effort. What is the effort that was needed to answer 'Am I aware now?' In the looking, there was no effort. Only in the reporting we can feel like there was some, but in the fighting of the mental interference, a lot. You like... just like fun. It's okay because there's a lag, that's why we're having figures. It's okay.

So, when this... and also there's the Shivani-ness. I think that's what I mean. It seems like it's kind of like to oscillate between the who I'm seeing in Shivani and the feeling of seeing clearly that this is just random awareness and we wear everything.

Yes, and the oscillation is a lot. What does it rely on? Again, put this oscillation—that I am Shivani or I am awareness—on what basis? It is on the basis of your attention and your beliefs, isn't it? You cannot come to Shivani unless you believe you're human. And Father, then the one's like... but there's no saying how or when that's going to happen. Let's think we're coming back like that's finally clear, but it still plays as always. Yes, like that. So then this is like a frustration, the death at that. But the reverse is not true. You have to believe you are Shivani to play the role of Shivani, but you don't have to believe that you're awareness to become awareness. Therefore, the effort is in becoming Shivani and the seeming effort to drop Shivani. It is not to become awareness or to drop awareness. So, suppose you didn't do any effort now, what would you be?

Reality. It doesn't say like... exits. I feel like it just happens. Like, I don't feel like I'm making more effort to be likeable anymore because it's not just what just happened.

Yeah, but I think now if you would remain totally effortless, then what are you? Not even looking there, look. Not even make effort to look. What are you most naturally now? What is required to keep this awareness up? Any effort needed? This is where I get my... this is right for the... like an exit says like, 'Okay, next question.'

The effort that you actually make now, make Shivani out of you. The rest is just beingness, like this effortless. And you know, when I'm saying talking about effort, we're not talking about physical work activities; we're talking about the effort like it is mental effort. So now, if we don't make any mental effort, then what is? Can it be that I become Shivani or pretend to be Shivani unless you think about it? Can there be any double-ended? It's like, yes, it's like this what happens. I was with theorizes because thinking's not happening and you know, life isn't feeling. I was like, 'Carnal, horrible,' because you know, I feel like this is taking arises and it's like there are something that drones with that's kind of like the effort sensibly. Like you see air, something I don't think feels like... like about exciting without effort we are then your way then this. Thank you. Sounds... what is a figure of fools or something? It was like it was try not, you know. No exit happens when any goal is... even if the temptation of fear comes words, there's a fear touching who in any way? It means when you're just effortless and the fear is coming and the fear is vibrating about with this certain awareness, unless you buy a part about it, even then you cannot be heard actually, but you can put it in. Yeah, a little if you like to say this one thing, I think, and you pick up is like the backups and calls like anything saying right, but still displayed like this here and that's like in the same size quickly and nice thing if you look.

Yes, it keeps funny, but it is like this is what gets picked up. Is this what awareness is concerned about? What the play, whatever the play might be? Then can the play testify to awareness or freedom in any way? That means like, site relevant basically. Really, it doesn't really matter actually. Worried about the power, its essence. This means that suppose in the play you're having a fight with your kids or something, no, somebody is not liking you when you're not enjoying the whole experience of the play. Does that mean that something happened to awareness or what you really are because of that? Look. Wow, that's clear. Yeah, I don't know what's actually worried about the center. It's just personal. It's just the person worrying about what's always like a distraction from... yes.

So what is this then? What? Okay, so like right now, even while I'm hoping then, having some second on the way there, basically I'm not actually again just flying in my right leg rapidly. That's it. Because I can feel, I can see, I'm aware of all this.

Yes, you are aware as awareness itself. And the thing is happening to you in any of this play? And it doesn't matter to you what the play is also. You might be saying, 'But it doesn't matter.' It's like, what this is it? You know, he is this is it. Within the way, this is always it. You've already just been away.

I'm like, oh well, it seems kind of pointless. Like, what is this? This like my life is my point, my motivation is my... there's no... just pointless. Okay, I don't know how mindfulness near anything. It feels like just like good. Wait a minute, right now, so that you can say, 'I can sing out.' All right, it doesn't... undeniable, yes. But you can see why awareness as the thing with creating consciousness and reply because it feels like currently, Cuenco eyes, it seems like it's just a grisly addressing senses. It just isn't. There's nothing else. So I'm con Kane is feeling. I can see why there's electricians whether this expression... what is the place? You don't see what to me because of life, right? What is the question? Give movie. I am sister. I've got this feeling of now it's clear to see why there is the play because there's just awareness, there's nothing happening or there's no reason or anything. So it's like when you save a plant payments, I feel what it's like. It's just watching everything.

Yes, fun. Yes, exactly. It's a lot of just been probably missing when it's Christmas making. So follow strict hearing loss than that misidentifying crisis where you're at least seen, yes, without really getting lost. We pretend as if we get lost in them, but now you see that this awareness cannot really get lost in it. Like me, you always being it's not so... hey, when you said something wrong, yes, but it is like it's a really good religion because it's when... when it's that simple thing lost, there is a slice. It's resented they lost, but it's even I've seen play not in your notes going on. I let slip up talking that lets click the help. Now you go back on follow. Now you go back in. Here's a turn from the last year's 60 you've been here. You see that this is what we've been saying all along. Whoa. And yet there's attack comes by something just... oh, I just as well even I want to sign now like that's an even thing like when something is being picked up. Yeah, did you said that to read the whole guy back and watch now from this point is me and there's like a loss against heartedly and then save and then getting lost again. I was like, what's the point? Just like even this is the thing other than you did. Impossible not to say that so of you because otherwise sometimes and fun and you say that I'm lost. Mind Pacific still nail trying to figure it out. I could seen, but now it's still going. Okay, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Remember centre phone there to try and listen. Okay, well get something out of that to come in and contribute to your seeing, but there's nothing it can help do to help you in reality. I just wanted to come to Bangalore, Ananta. I'm already halfway there. You coming or distant? They're coming to... no, I'm saying yes. All right. Oh, thank you for all to come up very clean up. Is any good that you able to spot this sense that there was some hiding and then you said no because the sense was there or hiding then, so I must come up. It's like a Kleenex agent put... um, so Dennis Rader's that is it. We're just getting listen through with minds like where you don't need to say this that you say that when he ever are enough to saying whatever comes to and so I thought it's an sis that was good. Don't come up more very quickly. Thank you, thank you. See what the cute keep them is not here now. Mindy and Supriya, okay, and then let the provoked not totally. Mindy now, the audio... am I audible now?

Now yes. Okay, okay.

The awareness, how it becomes the source of all? Is it that since it is the seer, but this seeing has adjusted, you know, makes the market and the attention alive, but it has no specific attention? The awareness does not have any specific distinction. It does not play any role over, you know, ethicist. So when we say that both of everything, the I am which is again coming and going, and how does it source the I am? How does it source the I am? Because then everything generates from I am. How does it solve it? What is like God elements, the mind? Okay, go booms the mind and the Jiva that item. So a window he then lumen you know...

Audio is breaking up a bit, so but I got a bit of your question actually. Sir, I am pressing it again. It's looking a... I got a bit of it. We can, we can look together. Oh, so I am th—

So when we say that both of everything, the 'I am' which is again coming and going, and how does it source the 'I am'? Because then everything generates from 'I am'. How does it source it? What is like God elements? The mind, the gunas, the mind, and the Jiva, that item. Audio is breaking up a bit, but I got a bit of your question actually, sir. I am pressing it again. It's looking a bit...

I got a bit of it. We can look together. So, 'I am'—this is not the Jiva 'I am', this is the Atma. The Jiva says 'I am something, I am this or that'. When it's playing this role personally, then it's the Jivatma. It's called a battery. And the Paramatma is the awareness. Now your question was: how can this awareness, which is actually nothing, how can something or everything come out of that? Logically it cannot, mentally it cannot. But what is our experience? Our experience is that in sleep state there is nothing, and yet from within this nothing itself, from within this awareness itself, is the emergence of the sense 'I am'. Because this awareness was all there is in the sleep state—this nothing was all there was in the sleep state—therefore, where must this 'I am' come from? It is experienced that from within me, inside my awareness, is the birth of this sense of presence or Atma or I-am-ness. And you're absolutely right when you see that with the birth of this, this is the birth of this entire phenomenal creation. All objects and qualities and attributes, all of these come from this, you see.

So for the mind, it is impossible that how can something come from nothing? And yet it is the experience which is undeniable. Exactly what happens, because we have experienced that in which there was nothing but awareness itself, and it is seen that the sense 'I am' emerges from within it. In that which is called the waking state, I am aware of the I-am-ness arising. There is nothing outside of me. There is nothing outside of this nothing. There is nothing outside of awareness. If 'I am' also comes from within this, and if it comes from within this, then what must it be made of? All the same nothingness. It is the realization of this at which point we can say nothing has ever really happened, because none of this has ever really happened, because only nothing has come out of nothing. But we don't have to do a mental conceptualization of the nuances. Stick with your experience and all these insights will come clear. You'll be able to share that from your own experience.

Experience is there. From nothingness, you know, the seeds burst, the seeds of consciousness burst, and then further everything happens. Experience is, if you take awareness, awareness is aware of itself, but there are no words as such. Awareness has no language in it. So when you say 'I am that', so who is recognizing this? Is it coming from the I-am-ness? No, it's coming to... 'I am that'. 'I am' is recognizing its source. It is saying, 'This is a reality, what I am'. But that reality is the unspoken, without qualities, without attributes. Therefore, there's nothing that can be spoken there. So it is the consciousness which is recognizing the source of where it came from, and it is saying that 'I am actually that, although I am playing it this way'. So this recognition is only in the waking state? It does not happen in a dream state? Of course, this I-am-ness is there in the dream as well as in the waking state. So this I-am-ness as such, which is again transient and phenomenal, in the waking state it says 'I am Brahman' and that, or 'I am Brahman'. Nothing stops it from staying in the dream state also. This could all be a dream state. Nobody can say really. There is fundamentally no difference between waking and dream.

See, what I'm coming to is that 'I am that' has to be dropped. The 'I am' has to be dropped. 'I am Brahman' has to be dropped, and only the Brahman has to be there without any cognition of itself. But this is already the truth. So all concepts... are you using the concept 'I am that'? It is just like tongs we're using to remove a thorn. No concept is... Brahman is already Brahman. Yeah, but further looking also has to be dropped. The seeking has to be dropped. The seeker has to drop. The one that you think should be dropped is also the seeker. There is going to find freedom. I emerged of the seeker which is... don't pick it up. Rather than believe your next thought, now is enough not to pick it up. It's already dropped now. There is... excuse me, that was a point in live there right now. Just stay with this. You say seeker has to go. I am saying don't pick it up. Any concept that you will pick up is the picking up of the seeker. Don't pick it up.

And there is a sequence. Yes, the seeker does not exist then if it is only the awareness. And if one stays in the awareness, which again is a practice after knowing the truth, because the thoughts keep on coming and it will keep on getting your attention. So this attention on the awareness, or what Bhagwan Mooji says, that in the heart, in the heart, or be quiet or be silent, whatever it is. Papaji says be quiet. No thoughts, rather no thoughts, or what you call is the Madhyama. What is the practice required now that we have glimpsed the truth? Okay, now to basically, you know, establish Nirguna Brahman, or then the seeker to vanish. No picking up, and the mind is totally fixed only Brahman. Basically, the attention would be fixed only on Brahman, also on the Self. Then the mind does not get any food, so it will die out. It will die out as such. So then only Brahman will be left. 'I am that' will be dropped because 'I am that' as such is only an expression which is coming out of the seeker. So are you doing this? What is that you are doing? Because you tried it on the other day when you met one, then the separation ended. The separation is oneness. From oneness to one, from oneness to one, which is the Absolute, there is no duality as such. Even the cognition of the awareness being aware of itself is just a drop. So what is it that you are doing?

I'm just not buying any of my thoughts. Sorry, actually your voice is breaking. I am just not buying any of my thoughts. That is sufficient. That is more than enough.

Okay, okay. All right. So do you put any attention somewhere? Do you put any attention somewhere?

But naturally, that journey is that very naturally when we are not believing our thoughts, very naturally the attention comes to rest in our own beingness or in our own... when there is not so much concern even about attention, we find that natural resting point without trying to control it.

Okay, thank you. This is what is the Jivanmukti. When you say, well, everybody wants to be Jivanmukti, so what exactly is Mukti? I mean, you know, being liberated while in the body as such. Jivanmukti is like, you know, one is liberated while being in the body itself before the physical death. So what is the one who is liberated?

I can't say whether there is Jivanmukti here or not. I can just tell you if there is no sense of bondage, there is no sense of being bound by something, that means freedom. I find only freedom here. So there is still this cognition that something can bind me, and the effect of it that I don't feel... I don't feel... is this clarity that nothing can bind me? I cannot be bound. So there is a memory that a worthless idea that I was bound, and without the idea there was no bondage. I can repeat: there is clarity that I cannot be bound, and yet there is memory of this idea that I was bound, and it was only the idea itself which was a pretend bondage.

So where does this 'I' spring from? You use the word 'I', so where does...

Very nice. So this is the way in the system. So the period... you can talk like this. The bigger 'I', the witness, can talk like a bigger 'I'. That is a spontaneous utterance which is coming from that state. This means the presence of this dynamic aspect of itself being able to report from the source of the truth. Actually, I think this is where the mind stops because it cannot really get more into this. So the instructions which I pick up is that you don't buy into the thoughts and there is a natural tendency to rest in the awareness. Okay, thank you Father. My dear, thank you.

And thank you for posting that excerpt on my wall. I found it very beautiful. I did not know I had the book which I bought from the Mother, Sri Aurobindo, in 2008, and I had forgotten about this book. So when I got stuck, this nothingness in the Upanishads, so I just remembered this book. Let me open it. It knows that the nothing is fine every day. Yes, thank you. And then this work... so very important to get that validation and confirmation also, like the one of the ancient scriptures. The mind can doubt, the mind can doubt. That is being said. Once you see over there that is so obvious what is being said, then something can come to rest. Very good. Actually, it is very important to have it like Guru. It can be a lot of concepts. So because Guru has traversed the whole path, so he knows where the people will get stuck. So the validation, the self-validation will not do. Self-validation will not do. It will do only to an extent. After that, the knowledge is to come. Therefore, I keep asking certain of these questions. Now I have to actually, though it is all the false journey, whatever it is, I have to go now beyond 'I am that'. This 'I am that' has to vanish because it is still not Sahaj. It is not still Sahaj, what you say Sahaj. Basically, this effort, there is still expectation, there is still a mind actually which is coming in, latent tendencies and all that stuff is still there. So the actual basically journey starts now.

The actual journey starts now. But just contemplate a little bit on this: find out who is the 'I' that wants to go beyond 'I am that'. Is it awareness? Is it the voice which is saying this? Or being which is saying the one that wants to start the journey is which one? Then there is no journey as such. There is no journey. If I stay in the awareness, that is sufficient. There is nothing further required. There is nothing further required. So it is just a small mere actually, you know, coming into oceans. It is just another play in the drama. Actually, you think we are all in the play. Like Papaji said, the seeker is a small wave and the Masters, they are the bigger waves. Master of the waves, but they are the bigger wave. Everything is a wave. Thank you. Thank you, my dear. Any soup is here? She didn't vanish like... namaste Father. My daughter also says... namaste. Facing you and exterior wonder had it not been for the television. Very good.

See, in the morning, I'm pretty bad, but crying, weeping, everything. I think now that the love is... it's the good. But since some point in the night, it has been your peace of love and crying. There was a deep fear of a very deep attachment that I've lost something, and never ever heard of Father in the death of a very slow punishment. And said it, I got out of the whole sphere of smoothing, but that is no more. And it is not because the phone... I kept trying four and a half hours and I was crying when he did pick up the phone. But during that whole time while I was trying, there was a loss that's happening. My father-in-law's factory was burning in the same... entire factory was burned. What happened? Yeah, completely like we lost. And this deep sense of something is going wrong. I don't know, there in our confusion. Father, can you hear me? Yes, yes. Something just doesn't want to listen to any of the spiritual Gyan. I don't know what is family halfway analysis. So today I will just restrain myself from reading anything because nothing was going in, and nothing of what you were saying was making sense right now there.

The entire factory was burning. The entire factory was born—what happened? Yeah, completely like we lost, and this deep sense of something is going wrong. I don't know, there in our confusion. Father, can you hear me? Yes, yes. Something just doesn't want to listen to any of the spiritual jnan. I don't know what is happening. For two days, I will just restrain myself from reading anything because nothing was going in, and nothing of what you were saying was making sense. Right now, there is a huge fear of not being able to leave this because if I do, then I will be back into my pattern. Now positive, love, hitting happening from all sides of this. I can't hear you, Father. It's you. I don't even know what a big photo and just every show and you see it to this paralytic is awkward. I don't know what question to ask because I'm running away from you right now, and I'm running away and trying to look for something. It is fear—fear of even going away from this, which is like your entire life. But if the seeking is also not happening anymore, I don't know. I can't remember that six years of my life I was running to find freedom, but freedom doesn't make sense to me anymore. What is the being? What is my being? I don't know. Was it for real, or was it false spirituality? In these last four or five years that I have imagined myself as a spiritual person, that I have constructed this being or the persona of a spiritual person—is that true? Or was it that I was more a heart person? I don't know what the truth is about being. What is the truth about yes, aware? You are always aware whether you go to wherever it is. The question of whether the building gets attached to the building—that which being isn't? Whose being? I don't know. It's like when my daughter comes now with a tantrum and only the words... something is not like... I don't know what is this being, and I don't know how to not be with the energy which is the same as my daughter throwing a tantrum. So you take out all the greater words from it, all the sudden words of it. It is like you're not helping. I don't know if any of this is really helping, you know? I don't know what I'm doing. So like this end... some truth in daughter throwing the tantrum. It happened. Leave it in it because he has bought a lot of promises about freedom, and it is finding now that there is no freedom for this one. So that's why it's like, alright, then what am I doing here? What have I been doing for six years? Has it all been fake?

This idea of the spiritual person, yes, the idea of the spiritual person has been fake. And ultimately, energetically or otherwise, this also has to be thrown away now. And that is the one that is reacting now, saying, 'No, no, but this is what I am. What am I without this?' And something is clear that even this I don't need to be—a spiritual person. I don't need this. You know, we're still up here. This spiritual person also had put so much investment into it. What did I actually find? Was it discovering only that this awareness is always here? Yes. What to do? Yes. And actually, it is enough, but it is not enough for the person. It is not anything for the person. The person says, 'What's the big deal? No, it's like, okay, so awareness is always here, so how is that helping me? In what way?' So if you take it from the spiritual person perspective, it doesn't help. But as awareness, can you complain about always being aware? No. Yeah. So it is this last bit of identity which is struggling and saying, 'But, but, but, but, but... now should I even stop this because it's not really helping me?' It is not, because not for you, the spiritual identity. Even you must leave and let awareness complain about just this awareness. So what does it matter who the being is, who Supriya is? From this point, nothing will have to be, because we are done with helping the non-existent one now.

With what perspective are you looking at it from? No person likes this phase of this walk that we take together. No person likes it. It's a big pain. It's like saying that you must eject out of the plane and let God run the plane now. It's very scary sometimes for the person. 'Yeah, I have been running it so far, now you are telling me to eject out of here? The plane will crash, everything will come down crashing.' No, but this is the... if there is some faith or trust that is knitted in this, then this is when it is required. Trust me, eject the person out here and then let's talk and follow the basic. And you know what can happen when the person is ejecting? Then it seems like the plane has become a little wobbly. It's become a little wobbly, so I better not go now. No, you better go. This is going to fly higher without you.

It feels like that, follows in a cycle of putting who's back. For two days, it is telling me there's nothing in this for you. It's telling you there's nothing in this for you, stop it now. Enough, enough, go back to regular life. See, it is telling you this message: you're making a mess of your life, everything is going through a mess just because of this. Now you better stop it, enough is enough. You spent six years on it.

Yeah, so it's playing this game. And it's a crucial point of the game because many actually turn back from this point and say, 'Okay, I found that I was in this to help the person, and I can clearly see it is the person itself that is being asked of me. I'm not ready for that.' Many, many fall prey to this. But I hope you have seen now that a person only means suffering. It is telling you that you are suffering because of your spirituality, but you're not. You're suffering because of the person identity. The true spirituality is taking you away from this sense of being a person. Yes, there is nothing here for you personally, but you're discovering the truth about what you are. So it is telling you the story: 'Don't come to satsang now. Enough now. Focus on your life and your husband and daughter and things like this.' I am not saying don't focus on your husband and your daughter; we have spoken many times. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. I am only saying that you are not Supriya. You are not this person who is scared of losing all of this. All of these are just ideas.

Which story are you buying? What I was worth because I believe all that I saw, that the loser, and there is a knowingness that this is it and all I need to start complete faith in what's happening. The only impediment is for trying that's still happening and that somewhere I'm going with the traffic. Like right now also, I wanted to share this computer. I think I also exposed right now do not leap, but aware warning. Oh, here's a few symptoms of... okay, I should not tell you I do this, your ticker there so strong. But anyway, let's be really good.

The first symptom is when the mind says, 'Okay, no, I'm done with inquiry. I don't want to inquire anymore right now.' Then it feels like, you know, okay, the mind won't sound, but then it closes you also to the inquiry. Then I just have to give you space and say, 'Okay, you'll come back.' You see, so the minute I hear this, 'I just don't want to inquire right now,' then you know that, okay, we've got a story and something is saying, 'I want to play with this story for some time.' So then I know the inquiry will disrupt the story and all my identification, so I don't want to do that. The second is this: that I can't be in satsang and it's like everything you're saying is just irritating me more and more, and I'm not liking you at all right now, and I don't know what I'm doing here. You know, these kind of things. And like when I hear it, I'm like... it's almost like I'm standing at the gates of heaven saying, 'Come, come here, we're having fun inside,' and some of them say, 'No, I am enjoying my hell much better. I am enjoying that hell much better being a person.' So then what to see? It's just like this. It paints it upside down. You see, the mind always makes it upside down, saying, 'But now inquiry has become so much effort. To be in satsang is so hard work. To be just a person is so much easier.' It might even feel like that. It's just... I'm so clear, everything is fine, and then two days later, one whack. No? Then again, maybe like, 'What am I? Who am I? What am I doing here?' Automatically it starts. The good thing is that I cannot believe that you're Supriya. I can also not believe that something is happening to you, but I can believe that anything is possible in this appearance. So how you want to play now is up to you.

I'm a performer, please, Father. If it's an aeroplane, then I have to fly. I do not fly. I have already done one who fly. If it's taken me somewhere and fine, you don't fly this plane. That you... when you say that 'I don't want to be in satsang, I don't want to inquire,' all of that is you flying the plane. But I will hold it now. But then who? Effort to be in this space right now. I mean, what made it like... if that 'I' who does not fly the plane is also coming to sit at the pilot's feet? I'm not flying, which... okay, let's find out who is making the effort. So who is here now, resolved reluctantly, but no one? Yes, I'm... you know, there is no one.

No. Yeah. Но, Father, is it that I don't know it already, or is it I'm finding it out? Okay, this is a very good question, actually. This is a very good question. You know it already, but you have been pretending so long to be something that you're not that it seemed like you're recognizing yourself again. It is like I pretended to be this movie character for so long, but actually somewhere inside I knew that I am not this. I knew all of this is an acting role. But I have done it for so long now that someone now is coming and saying, 'Okay, this is just a movie role.' Something is recognizing the truth in that as to the role, and that is causing the resistance. So again and again, we are reminding you: you are not this role, you are not this character. And you recognize when you hear it that this is true, but something still wants to play with that, you see? So that resistance is what we are washing away in the satsang, and we are coming to this. So you never really forgot, but the pretense became so strong and overpowering, and it took so much of your time that you had to come up with this reminder, which comes in the external form of the Guru to remind you that you are not this role. You are not Supriya. You don't exist as a person at all. Nothing has ever happened to you. It's all in this movie. And something, even when I say this, something knows this is true. And yet the mind will come and resistance say, 'But, but, but, something, something.' The recognition of the truth is already intuitively there, but we trusted the voice of this movie character for so long that when it comes and tries to sell us something, it still has some seeming power over us.

Because this is my dream back then, this which is so untrue and everything like completely in front of me, but yet there is... there seems to be something going, carrying on and on despite just knowing. Probably like a zoom out and still a blue tentacle going on. And that is the tiring bit. Like, that is what is tiring me down right now.

You know what is more tiring than that? More tiring than that is the checking of whether the pretense is going on or not. The checking of your own freedom, the checking of what is going on—that is more tiring. Then I try stopping the pretenses of this pretend checker, and it has now become even stronger than the original ego. And I give you a master key for this one. I said that everything which you're reporting from the past and projecting from the future is coming from the checker's eye. If you don't buy it then right now, then what is there? What is the problem?

Why are these intense emotions coming out and all? Because by the time I come to you or am behind out, it is already past and I am reporting from like six hours back. But it is just so strong that it leaves me completely drained or raw, and I start looking for some reason why it has happened, or maybe I need to report it to you to show you what is happening here. And yeah, that doesn't...

The future is coming from the checkers. If you don't buy it right now, then what is there? What is the problem? Why are these intense emotions coming out and all? Because by the time I come to you or report it, it is already past and I am reporting from like six hours back. But it is just so strong that it leaves me completely drained or raw, and I start looking for some reason why it has happened, or maybe I need to report it to you to show you what is happening here.

Yeah, that doesn't drop. The death of the body will not bring fear. Even the death of your body will not drain you. What is happening is we've got used to reporting on the sensations in the body or the experiences of the things which we call intense, actually. But every time we check, we see that they are nothing inside me; they're not even hurting. What is here? It's just that they're jumping about a lot and they seem like really strong and uncomfortable, but actually nobody is being hurt from them. And this feeling, the resisting of them and the constant declaring of them, can seem like it is very tiring. But actually, anything can happen to your body, but you will not be drained because of it. You will just be there to witness it. But as long as we're calling ourselves the body, or we're calling ourselves the person who has the body, then what seems to happen in the body can seem so intense or so strong. But you see the space in which it happens. But what is happening to that space? To that space, nothing happened.

Nothing happened.

To which it happens, what is this 'me' made up of?

Nothing.

And that moment of just the buying of the concept of 'me', yes, it is the concept, you know, because it comes with a package. One concept and then like the whole story of it. But maybe you've not got it experientially; maybe it's all been just in your head and maybe it's just knowledge, la-la-la. And I can go and I can show the three phases of doubt. First phase: you doubt yourself and you say you aren't worthy of understanding, you didn't understand anything. Second phase: you start doubting the teaching itself, what is being spoken and all, you know, all of this stuff. Third phase: you doubt the intent of the teacher itself and say he's brainwashing, it's not really true, it doesn't really help. All of these can happen with this doubt, and all can come together. You start doubting everything.

So I just want to explore something here because I don't want to say it's just doubt. After last satsang, it seemed as if everything started getting erased in the physical room. So suddenly the wall pictures of gurus and building, everybody just got erased. Then things started collapsing. Concepts started collapsing, a lot of identity, everything. And slowly, slowly, slowly, I came to this point like this week when I didn't want to know anything about freedom. It seemed as if in this whirlwind of things getting erased along with the person, even the fire that I always had for freedom is also getting extinguished. And then came fear of losing everything. So it felt like neither here nor there. And right now, Father, as I'm saying this, it seems like a pretty good picture, but no contact is there, Father, now. Like it says, no form as well anymore. Yet there is a trying to get attached to some form or some attachment in some way, somehow, to get some bearing of existence versus form. And that's the strongest.

And there is the flicking. You trouble yourself. Picking up a concept is only leading to trouble. Some fear can be there, like it's a bit wobbly without any concept, without the person. But actually, the wobbliness we must go through a little bit and see that nothing is crashing.

It felt like a depression, Father. There was the feeling of depression, like complete disorientation and crying and claustrophobia and fear and weakness. And then came the whole struggle to get out of the water, like you know, who is drowning? Get me out. It's like, okay, let me go for shopping, let me go get myself something. So last two days when I was off, I went shopping. I was looking out for something, but then by the end of the day, it was like a slap, you know? Did you buy anything for me? I love the ladoos and forget myself. If you go to the desert, Father, I've always been completely chill in my world. And what is happening because suddenly we are planning to shift to Delhi, and with all the melting happening already, there is complete uprooting in the physical world on top of being shifted from Kanpur to Delhi. And so much chaos, so much senselessness. I don't know. It's like living and acting like everything is not hitting this 'me' to which, to my eyes, doesn't seem very straight. But as a person, this today is like too much of a challenge. My father's health, everybody around me is not well—my brother or my two sisters, everyone. All my relations are all strained right now and it's a complete collapse. I'm exhausted of even feeling emotions.

Okay, now just to humor me now, because it's been a long satsang, this too. It feels really good about myself now. This report. Something from awareness?

I love you, Father.

I love you too. Now I like you with your viewing. Okay, good. Maybe you totally wouldn't remember this, that awareness is reporting. Oh, just like my daughter today. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Can I go? Thank you so much. Thank you all so very much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Ki Jai. You also, any of you who are in Bangalore and are still watching online, you are most welcome to join me in my house for dinner tonight. What time? 7:30. 7:30 we are meeting here, some of the sangha members. We have dinner together.

I want to come for dinner! I want to come for dinner! You want to come? It takes me about 24 hours to get there, but welcome. Thank you so much. Moderating today is the gentle Agnes. Maharaj, he was born today. How wonderful, wonderful. What a day. Very nice. And today is Hanuman Jayanti also. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear. We can end the broadcast now.