BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

A: What really applies to you, that you know for certain ‘This really applies to me’?

Q: I believe it, yes.

A: [Chuckles] Yeah, if you believe, you can believe anything. So, that is how it doesn’t apply.  When you check, what do you find? What truly applies to you upon checking?

Q: Having experiences.

A: Having experiences?

Q: I …

A: ‘I’ is which one? [Silence] That’s why I’m taking ‘I am having experiences’ and just looking at it word by word. So, ‘I’ is which one having experiences? [Silence]

Okay, let’s go to the next one.

‘Am’ means what? ‘Am’?

Q: It is only what I can fix here.

A: ‘Here’ means…? ‘Here’ is the opposite of ‘there’? [Silence] You’re not there, you are just here. Is it like that? [Silence] Where are you? Where is your boundary? Tell me where you are and where you are not?

Q: Silence was coming … Something doesn’t want to believe that I am this space.

A: Doesn’t want to believe that ‘You are the space.’ It’s an idea? Don’t feel diffident. What is it? [Chuckles]

Q: I was combining two or three answers at the same time.

A: Yeah, every sentence does that. That’s okay.

No concept has ever lived on its own.  It is combined.

So, you said that ‘The only thing that I can say with some certainty is that I’m here.’

Q: Yes.

A: Now we looked at ‘I’, we looked at ‘am’ … now we are looking at ‘here.’

What does ‘here’ mean? ‘Here’ is apparently the opposite of ‘there.’

Q: Yeah, I had to have a reference.

A: ‘Here’ is a reference. What reference is that?

Q: I had to refer to ‘me’ but then when I looked for ‘me’ I can look for there and here. I also looked for ‘space’. I also looked for all that I can see with these eyes.

A: Yeh, yeah.

Q: And there was sounds coming on, going on.

A: Yeah. Did you find yourself there?

Q: No, I did not.

A: Or did you not find yourself there? Either way…

You looked at the sound. This is good. The sound coming out of your mouth.

Are you there? Or you are not there?

Q: [Deep breath] Every sentence I’m constructing, of course, that I’m trying to put together, seems incomplete.

A: Yes. Is that complete? [They both chuckle]

In a way, you might say ‘He’s just trying to confuse us or confound us’ and in a way that is true. [Smiles] In a way, in this movement towards dropping your certainties, those things that you are so certain about that even the concept ‘I am here’ when investigated, does it hold any good? Can you inquire into it for even two minutes? You cannot find one element of truth in this ‘I am here.’ Just three words. ‘I’ … we cannot find in that way. The ‘I’ which could be here or there, spatially or locally in any way, that is definitely not found.

Isn’t it?

Q: It’s like trying to reconcile the concept of ‘you and me’.

A: Yeah. What is ‘you and me’? How is it different from A and B?

The only seeming or apparent difference between a Master/Teacher and a disciple is that the Master is naturally remaining in the unborn, whereas for the disciple it seems like it’s an effort, a struggle. But this becomes more and more natural and then these apparent distinctions between Master and disciple also dissolve because ultimately these are also just notions, just concepts.

I got a report yesterday saying that ‘You are asking about the concept I really believe is true.’ (We were playing the game where I said: [Whatever concept you are believing] I will say ‘It is just a thought.’) So, they said that ‘I would say Guru Kripa Kevalam’ [is really believed to be true]. Is that just a thought?’

I said ‘Of course, it’s just a thought.’ [Chuckles] It’s just another concept. But seemingly, in this play, some concepts (and it all depends upon our existing conditioning) … some concepts can play the role of burning up other concepts … and some concepts just seem to lead to more and more conceptual picking up.

So, concepts like ‘Who am I?’ and ‘Guru Kripa Kevalam’ play the role of burning up the rest for many.

Many can also conceptualize a lot about even this. You can start working on a thesis on who I am; look at the history of man and start making conclusions that ‘This is what I must be’. But for many, it can work like this, that you question ‘Who am I?’ and it dissolves these other notions, these other concepts, which we may be holding.

So, these concepts, which I feel play the role of burning up everything else, is part of the point of coming to Satsang. Satsang is not that we can build a new spiritual dictionary for ourselves. Rather it is a great forgetting.

Q: Okay, so basically, I just have this Presence … rather Omni-Presence is how I experience it. It is very much Here. The person, the ‘I’ is just something that flickers on and off and I’m giving increasingly less and less attention to that. And today, I just had this thought ‘I’m not going to do anything until this state moves me this (this ‘thing’ greater that the ‘I’) … until that moves this body, I’m not going to do anything. So, I was at home all day; nothing happened. I had dance class in the evening (I mentioned I’m a dancer) I didn’t go. I didn’t go to the gym; I normally work out a lot. I didn’t leave the house. I didn’t do anything. I didn’t even leave the sofa. I was just staring, just staring at the wall, staring outside. That’s all that happened. And there was a panic that ‘I have just become very lazy. I’m being lazy, I’m not utilizing myself. I’m not doing karma yoga, I’m not doing seva, I’m just being lazy and this is all just a sham’ … like that thought. Not that it’s a sham; it can’t be a sham because the Omni-Presence is very palpable and tangible; like I cannot deny that. But that … it’s like ‘Now what? What is there to do? I can’t keep living like this, doing nothing.’ You know? ‘When I am going to move and do something? Isn’t exercise good? Isn’t striving towards something good?’ These thoughts, the I’ thoughts, these thoughts that motivated the ‘I’ in the past, all this came back and it was scaring me. So, I just wanted some light on that, please.

A: It is good, good, good. Happy to hear this report. In fact, it’s very familiar with some of the experiments that happened here also. And it’s funny how the mind comes and labels it. You spent the whole day in Presence and presumably at peace and yet the mind came and said ‘But this is such a waste of time. You should be striving. You should be doing stuff.’ In fact, when you spoke, you talked about the things you did. You were sitting around, you were staring. You did all of that. So, in the waking state there is no escape from activity. But what you said is that ‘I’m not going to be caught up in just this mind’s desire to do this, to try and work this out this way or achieve something.’ So, if you ask the mind, it will say: ‘Okay, so if I achieve, achieve, achieve and do all of this stuff which I’m supposed to do then what am I supposed to get out of that?’ And the mind will say ‘Then you can be at peace. You can be still, you can just enjoy yourself.’ It might even say ‘Just chill’ or something, which seems like that is what just happened naturally. But if [supposedly] the promised benefits are at the end of this dark tunnel of striving, striving, striving … actually, you found that they are just here naturally. What could be better than that?

The other thing is that because we have this conditioning that sitting around is bad and working like a donkey on the treadmill or something like that is good, then it can be that you spent the whole day with God but that is like ‘the worst thing that you could have done’. If you were to ask me, there is no greater gift you could have given yourself. But to the mind, that is just a waste of time.

Now, in what it wants to achieve, is there a something greater than being with God? … being with Your own Divine Presence? There isn’t. There isn’t. Is there something that the mind wants to achieve which does not come and go, which will not go with the death of this body? What will you keep for yourself out of your achievements?

So, whatever; if you have to win some awards, if you have to make lots of money, if you create a big name for yourself, if they put statues of you all over the world, what is going to last after your death? After you’re gone, nobody is going to come back to you and say ‘I see that statue is yours.’ [Chuckles] Nobody will say this. But what you are finding in this simplicity of ‘Just Being’ is something which is unaffected by coming and going; by time, by space.

So, this is a very beautiful exercise. And by the way, there is no guarantee that the exercise always works out this way. It is very beautiful how it worked out … but some days, you might find that Presence is moving the body a lot. So, there is no saying that ‘Okay, because this how it happened today, this is how it just has to happen every day.’ And yet, it is very natural and very nice for it to happen this way. In fact, this ‘just sitting’ thing is very common. You hear a lot of the Sages reports. They say ‘after’ … they just came to this place of rest and for long, long periods of time, they were just sitting … with nothing to do, nowhere to go.

So, these mind judgments will not worry you so much. Because the mind will say ‘Go do something!’ But what could you do that is greater than being with God? [Smiles] What is a greater use of this life than not spending it on something which is ephemeral? … than being with That which is eternal? I can’t imagine a better use of life.

A: Okay, you are Here Now. Suppose you got one thing mixed up, which is that everything that you feel was in the past is actually going to happen in the future, and everything you want in the future has actually happened in the past. Then how would it be?

Q: The same.

A: Exactly. Then what are You Now? [Silence]

Q: This.

A: This Now can only ever be like this, isn’t it? And if something is missing Here Right Now, it can never be gotten. If something is missing Here Right Now, it can never be gotten.

How is that? What is missing Here Now? Nothing is missing. And I could say this at any point of time. You have to make a presumption that time exists first … suppose.

Q: Presumption of what?

A: That time exists to be able to say this. And even if it does exist, you could always say this: If something is missing Here Now, that something will never come. [Silence] If the Truth is missing Here Now, that Truth will never come.

The only place to look for it (in a way) is just this Right Now.

If you keep searching for it in the ghosts of past and future then it’s just going to be a mirage. If it’s not Here Now, then it’s never going to come. That is a mirage, that so-called freedom, that so-called Self, that so-called Truth. So, don’t wander off into past and future. What is Here Now? Give yourself this gift. No storyfication, not even spiritual storyfication … just Now.

If it’s not Here Now then all this Satsang and all of it is a sham; all of this is a waste of time. If there is something to this, it must be apparent Now. If there is something to this, it must be apparent Now. Don’t go with what you think, don’t interpret your even your feelings, just stay with what you see.

What is that song? Maybe you can sing it a little later or if you remember you can sing it now. ‘Don’t go chasing waterfalls.’

Q: (Sings) ♪♫ Don’t go chasing waterfalls…♪♫

A: The ocean is here. Don’t go chasing waterfalls; some special experiences or something.

Is there (just sensationally) inherently a set of sensations which are automatically you … and another which is not-you?

Q: There is a doubt, a question that is arising, and then I can see that this could be believed in.

A: But that’s a just a layer of interpretation. As we were saying, just from the perceiving of it, what makes any set of sensations especially you… and another not-you? Just from the seeing of it, just from the perception of it.

Q: [Silence] So, this could be me?

A: I’m saying: What makes something you or not-you? Automatically, as something is perceived, does something become you and something become not-you without interpretation?

Q: [Silence] There’s not even me or you. [Silence] It’s not that clear.

A: This is worth checking. This is worth checking out: whether a set of sensations automatically have the claim that ‘It is me’ and another set of sensations automatically have the claim ‘not me’ or ‘outside’. Which sensation are you experiencing now which could have that claim … that it is you? [Silence] Can you single out some sensation of ‘This is me’ automatically?

Q: This hand moves.

A: Some movement feeling…, something like that? What is it?

Q: [Silence] The heart is pumping

A: The heart is pumping … and automatically, it is you? Without interpretation; just as it is experienced … is this sound of this [his] voice automatically not you, and the heart-pumping sensation is you automatically?  [Silence] So, hear this sound now, and hear how this is not you. And another sensation, which you said earlier is in the same space; how does that become you? [Silence] This sound is here. I’m going on speaking so you can hear it, and then there are some other sensations. So, what divides this sensation and that sensation? They’re both experienced in the same ‘space’ (to use that term). So, what is the dividing line? (And any sound, for that matter; any taste; any visual.) [Silence] If something inherently deserves the claim ‘me’ then we can say ‘Finally, we found it. Finally, we found the person we were looking for.’

Q: It’s just one thought after another.

A: It’s just thoughts. That’s why we said ‘Okay, because thought keeps changing (thoughts sometimes say this, thought sometimes says that) that’s not really worth giving credibility to.

What do we actually See?

You know what they say about intermittent fasting? The first couple of days … and I’ve had this experience, that the first couple of days there is a bit of tiredness and sometimes a headache. What happens in the first days? Intermittent fasting is when you don’t eat for a number of hours every day. So, sixteen hours you don’t eat and eight hours you can eat. So, what happens in that is that for the first two-three days, the body struggles. Why does it struggle? Because it has forgotten about the generator. It has gotten used to burning the fresh fuel supply which is in the stomach and getting the energy from there. But it has not gotten used to (because of our modern life style) burning the fat; whatever is stored up. So, it struggles.

This is a bit like Satsang. You feel like you struggle without this device called the mind or the intellect but it is only because you are not used to just this greater Supreme Intelligence which is running this entire play. So, what happens mostly is that you complain that ‘Without the mind, I am lost. How can I live like this?’ That is just the withdrawal symptoms from the constant nourishment of ego, of individuality, of the idea that ‘I can know this life; I can figure out what it is about’. But beyond this sort of mental knowing, beyond your intellectual figuring, there is something which Knows in a greater way. It is not a thing, but you have to use some language.

Just like this; as you withdraw from this need to conclude, from this need to say that ‘This is what it is’ … the mind feels that this sort of state is a dumb state, that it has become dumb or something. Just like the fear will come when your body is struggling in the first two-three days of fasting; things like ‘You’re just going to die, you can’t live like this’. [Chuckles] And you look at this beautiful imagery of all the Sages … Yogi Ramsuratkumar also you saw, and he is sitting just like an innocent child. And he taught us one of the most beautiful lessons which there is to learn: ‘Don’t give credence to the possibility of anything but God. If God is what you want, then why do you accept the possibility of anything else?’  From this childlike intelligence, from this childlike innocence, this Supreme Intelligence can arise as the words of the Sages.

Our mind lives in the opposites of right and wrong, true and false. If feels like in some judgment you will get a true representation of ‘What Is’. But that is not the boundary of your existence. That is just the boundary of your intellect. To conclude that this is ‘this’ and this is ‘not this’ … these are just the boundaries of our intellect. But your life, your existence, is much vaster than that. True knowingness which gives light to these minor ways of knowing or perceiving is much vaster than we can imagine, we can perceive, we can fathom. Much vaster.

So, you don’t have to fit this ocean into a glass. You don’t have to ‘get it’. What would it mean to ‘get it’? That you captured some valid representation in this instrument called the mind? Would that be it? Or into your perceptual vision? Would it that be it, to ‘get it’? Into your experiential capabilities? That’s how we define ‘get it’ … ‘I figured it out or I saw something or I had the experience of something’. But it is never just in that. It is not in opposition to that, but it is not just in that.

What are you beyond these?

What is holding your existence up?

What Intelligence is that?

What makes you exist?

This Being?

This Atma?

Are these just going to be like fantastical concepts for the mind to play with? ‘Brahman, Atma, Self, Absolute, No-thing-ness?’ We can play for many, many hundreds of life times with these. But is there a way to not get caught up in the concepts and to get a taste for yourself in Reality, to taste your Truth?

As long as you are happy to say ‘Yes, yes, no, no, this is right, this is wrong, this is the way I think about it, this is what I feel is true’ then this will not be so appealing for you. This way or that way. If still the duality has juice, enjoy it. No trouble at all. But I’m going to be honest and say that if that juice is still there, then maybe what is being said here may not be so important, may not seem so exciting because there is no promise here of any taste which is perceptual.

But if you’re done with this roller coaster, if you’re done with your own judgments about things, if you’re tired of your conclusions (you look at your conclusions and you say ‘What is this about? Is it really like this? Do I actually know any of this?’) … if this is what your own mind is feeling like to you, then join me here … as there is no attachment to this roller coaster. It can play. There is no aversion to it either. But see yourself with a different set of eyes. Meet yourself in a fresh way; beyond concept, beyond perception.

Q: Just like you said right now that this could just be a memory.

A: I’m not asserting, by the way, that it is.

Q: No, no. Even like your breath (this experience or whatever) then you can’t say one thing which is part of this memory. So, the whole thing is gone then. Anything (if I say pain, headache, this, that, up, down) will go away. It’s like that dream.

A: There is a simpler way to put it. It’s a classic conundrum where the teacher asks: Is it not possible that tonight when you sleep, we have repeat of this exact same conversation?

Q: Yeah.

A: It is possible. Is there a way you can tell me that this is not that?

Q: No.

A: So, we cannot be certain.

Q: So, when I look at … when Papaji said that ‘Nothing ever happened’ how could he mean …

A: Sorry. I also want to say something very beautiful on top of that; that coming to the Truth is not to come to ‘The Truth’ as a certainty. It is to lose all our certainties. In a way, it’s like what Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] says: ‘True knowledge is just the dropping of the false.’ It is not that you come to know something, that you come to know now that ‘This is True Knowledge’. If you just get a sense of this, you will become much lighter. Because otherwise you are grasping for something which you feel like will be the ultimate Truth but it is the grasping itself which is false.

Now say.

Q: So, when you said that Papaji [Sri Poonja] said that … how could he say that ‘Nothing ever happened’? So, actually, it felt like that was an answer: in the dream. Intellectually, I can see that; if I just took it as a pointer. Then I just wanted to say this and see if it’s just a thought: Never have I known myself not to be. I have no experience, in this experiencing, that I’m not there; that something is there when I’m not there.

A: So, you are saying that I have never had the experience that there was nothing, including the ‘I Am’. Is it like that?

Q: No. I have never had the experience that something exists but I’m not there while it exists, meaning that I never have the experience of not being, not knowing, my own existence.

A: ‘Not knowing my existence’ is just a thought. That’s the exact definition of sleep state anyway … what you just said, ‘I know I am not there’.

Q: No, no, not that ‘I know I’m not there’. I didn’t mean that. I’m saying that I never have the experience that I’m not there … in the sense that ‘That’ was there but I was not there; like something else is there but I’m not there.

A: Just a thought.

Q: But even in the sleep state, the voice which says that ‘I’m this, I’m that and I like this’ is not there.’

A: Exactly. This is what I’m saying.

Q: But you still don’t have the feeling that you are not there. I mean, you don’t have some thought…

A: Then what wakes up?

Q: What wakes up is a thought, maybe then.

A: It is a thought. If we can just conclude that that is a thought, that’s fine. [Laughter]. The ‘I’ thought. Another way of saying what Bhagavan said about ‘True Knowledge is just the dropping of the false and it is naturally present.’ It is same as saying that when you let go of this ‘I’ thought, all there is that is ‘Self’ or the ‘Truth’.

The ‘I’ thought is central to all of our thoughts, to this thought system. Now, you might believe (and this is where the first statement comes from) that this ‘I’ thought has to move from the false ‘I’ to a true ‘I’ and that that is real enlightenment or freedom. But it is not that. It is that when you let go of all false references to ‘I’ then the Truth is just apparent.

So, the game is much simpler for You and much more difficult for the mind. Because the mind would much rather prefer ‘Okay, I’m going to drop the false position and come to the true position; from the false position of I’m just a person to the true position of I am Brahman. Aham Brahmasmi.’ But it is not that.

Now, make no reference to yourself … and what is apparent to you? Let everything be as it is. Don’t say this is I or you; me or mine; me or other. Leave the world unlabeled.

[Silence]

What is the distance between any opposites? Big and small, true and false, right and wrong, inside and outside, up and down. The distinction is just a thought; it is just a notion. There is nothing inherently big or small, nothing inherently inside or outside, nothing right or wrong. And inside and outside is very easy to check. Because I don’t feel like there will be anyone in this room who has not said ‘Ah, when I go inside, I find peace or I find some emotion or sensation.’ But nobody has been able to tell me where this inside is. Inside of what is it? The inside where you go to find peace, it is inside of what? And these are the simplest things which we don’t question because we take them to be for granted. The whole egoic notion is built around these notions which seem stupid to question; it feels like ‘But of course. inside is inside and outside is outside.’ But I say ‘Inside what?’

Even this we do not know … and we claim how the world should be. We don’t know how to speak a word, move a finger. You might have a theory about it. You might say ‘Oh, our brain fires some neurons and these actions happen’ but nobody here knows how to fire a neuron. So, what is this Intelligence that is running all of this? And if there is a will, it must belong to just this One, this Intelligence. Because this mythical individual has been looked for (and except for some blurry ‘evidence’) we have not found any real one.

So, don’t be fearful of that which we don’t know. We hate it actually; in our heart, we hate not knowing, so we are quick to replace that fear with a judgment. Remain in the not-knowing. It can feel a bit like some tough medicine … because nobody is holding onto a belief knowing that it is false. Whatever you believe, you think it is true, no? So, when someone comes and says ‘But what do you actually know?’ it can seem like an attack almost.

Now what has happened for most of you is that you are advanced spiritual seekers. [Laughter] As advanced spiritual seekers, you know a lot of spirituality and because you know a lot of spirituality, you may think that you’re right about it. And you will be quick about it. In your encyclopedic spiritual knowledge, you will have all the most credible source. ‘But all I know is what Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] said’ or ‘What [Nisargadatta] Maharaj said’ or ‘Papaji [Sri Poonja] said’ or ‘Guruji [Sri Mooji] said.’

Someone in Sangha says: ‘What Ananta said.’

But what are they saying? They are saying that ‘All of what we are saying is just thorns used to remove any embedded thorns you might have, and then to be thrown away.’ They are not saying that ‘I can capture Reality in some concept of Truth.’ They are saying ‘All I can do, at best, is point’.

Q: Father, most of the things that come, like most of the thoughts (I’m just measuring it) like ninety out of hundred thoughts just come and go. I don’t pay attention to it. Ninety out of hundred, okay? But there are these ten thoughts; like for example, if I have a headache, how can it be a thought? I have a headache, you see. That is so much…

A: Yes, what I’m saying is ‘It’s just a thought.’ It’s a thought? Or no?

Q: It is a thought. But… ahh… [Smiles]

A: But…? [Chuckles]

Q: The ten of them are really … like they attack you. I know that attacking is also a thought, but it seems like a pain actually.

A: So, if it is a painting, then to call it a painting is no trouble. If it is a song, to call it a song is no trouble. But how come something takes it as an attack when something is pointed out that ‘A thought is just a thought’? Or that ‘It is the thought’? (It might take offense at the term ‘just’ … like ‘It’s just a painting’.) So, it’s enough to say that it is just a thought.

Is it more than a thought? ‘I … have … a … headache.’ It’s a thought.

Q: But still, it is there. It is a kind of physical suffering; something, some sort of experience.

A: I know, you are saying that there is pain; some sensation is being experienced. But ‘I’ have a headache?

Q: This body has headache. [They both chuckle]

A: We aren’t trying to get to the best version. But you will try to change it around like this. ‘This body has a headache.’ Then are you certain about that? Maybe it is a phantom limb type thing or about a love type thing? Is it a dream body? It is a waking state body? So, as you keep playing with the versions of whatever you could use to represent what perception is happening, you will find that no version actually works. So, I’m not saying to become strange in day-to-day life; that you don’t tell people that ‘I have a headache, give me a crosine.’ I’m not talking about that. But I’m just saying that even this version, which is a notion (if you were open at that time; not when you have a headache) you can check and see: ‘What is it? Can I find the one who has the headache? Do I really know what a head is or what a headache is?’ I know, it may be too much for some. So, it’s fine. [Smiles]

So, which part of that do you know? You know ‘I’?

Q: I don’t know anything. [Chuckles]

A: We started with saying okay, we will go that way then. ‘I …  have … a … headache.’ So, the ‘I’ part …  the starting itself is starting trouble. So, from this side, we can start.

What is headache? You looked at various sensations and we said ‘Presumably it comes from here, presumably it is there.’ But when we start really looking at these sensations, these perceptions, can you really locate where they are?

You might be trained to say that ‘Okay, this is a hand sensation.’ Where is it being experienced?

You check like this and you will find that location-less-ness is more prevalent that you realize. These concepts of space are fitted on top of just natural experience. This concept of spatial existence is an overlay on top of just ‘What Is’. Like we were saying ‘up and down, left and right’ … and the mind will say ‘Of course, up is up.’ Okay, but up for who?

I don’t know why I have to insist so much on this ‘up and down’ thing [Chuckles] but I felt like something opened here when I saw that even this is just notional.

Q: It means for the body.

A: It is just to make that reference again to the body. And again, I’m not suggesting or saying ‘Okay, change the way you talk in life’ or something like that. I’m not saying it like that. I’m just suggesting that all these things we feel we are so certain about, bring them into your inquiry.

If [Sri Nisargadatta] Maharaj can encourage you with his statement saying ‘I just began to lose all my certainties; that’s what really changed.’ The certainties that you think are strong, like ‘This is the way it is.’

‘Is’ is not definable in any way. It Is.

Q: It has been constant that part of my attention goes towards a lot of thoughts and putting in a lot of doubts. You know they are passing because they do pass, but then I find myself always seemingly stuck there and I ‘m not sure how to ….

A: Attention is on the thoughts which are doubts. And doubts in spirituality can be doubts about the teaching, doubts about the Master, doubts about yourself. It doesn’t leave anything. So, what are you doubting most?

Q: Basically, I don’t know or rather … I should know things that I don’t know.

A: Like?

Q: Like maybe there is a next step or something that I must be feeling. I am not feeling it. Or I shouldn’t be paying attention. ‘No, you didn’t do that.’ But there is a constant barrage of these. But there are moments where I do see that these are …

A: These are not uncommon. To try and predict the next step in any journey, especially the spiritual one, is very common. But the funny part of the spiritual one is: what step you are currently on?

Q: It seems like I have to just let it go, let it be and just notice what is there.

A: So, you have to let go of everything except ‘Let it go’?

Q: I can’t let go of that. [Chuckles] Yeah.

A: Can’t let go of letting go? I see. Then we are stuck. [Chuckles]

Q: Yeah

A: Something likes to hear that now we found the problem. Now the problem is ‘This is where I’m stuck.’ Where is the letting go now? Gone. And this is not some wishy-washy word-play that it has gone Now. This is the best part.

Q: There’s fear. It doesn’t really have a basis but it plays out like that’s the first reaction. Okay, yeah, this is old news. Like, I didn’t know. If I didn’t know what should I be afraid of. I don’t know. That’s the condition, yeah.

A: [Chuckles] This is why I feel like I have to stop speaking more and more because even I have said ‘The fear of the unknown’ and then the mind also latches onto that and says ‘Okay, now Ananta himself has said that you have the fear of the unknown. Oh, this is fear.’  Which one is it? Where is it?

Q: It’s just not knowing. It doesn’t seem so heavy anymore now. Just thoughts of ‘I must do; I must do something.’

A: Don’t try to know the not-knowing. For many of you, what is happening is that ‘Okay, I’m coming to this space of openness, of dropping; I’m just remaining empty of all of this. Now what is happening to me?’ So, we are still waiting for a conclusion of what is to happen when we don’t know or when we let go.

Whose progress are we tracking?  What if you were just a guy sitting next to you? Would you be so concerned about what is happening with him?

Q: Not really.

A: [Chuckles] Did you find out? Say you’re sitting next to Chaitanya and asking him ‘Did you find out what has been happening? Is there fear of unknown?’ No.

So somehow, this idea that there is a ‘me’ here whose spiritual progress, especially now, is of some special relevance, this also becomes part of our belief system about the ‘me’ itself. That’s why every day I come and give you a guarantee. I guarantee you that God is full and complete Right Now … and there is nobody else. It is the same thing as saying ‘All things are perfectly resolved in the unborn.’

[Silence]

Now, everything we say after that is like saying ‘I don’t know this but I just want to claim it anyway.’ In fact, everything said is that way. All claims and denials are that way. Because the basis itself, the ‘I’ (therefore, we can say ‘I am doing this, I have this, I don’t have this’) … the ‘I’ itself cannot be known through this instrument which we have used for knowing.

If, at the end of the inquiry, all you were left with was a conclusion, like a mental/conceptual conclusion, then that would not be it.

Q: Yeah, it’s a position.

A: It’s a position and it’s a pretty heavy position. It’s a pretty heavy position to carry because then we try to live up to that position of what we conceptually think we are now. We try to live as Awareness. Live as the Self. Okay? Live as the Self and show me. [Chuckles] Who can do it? How would you live as the Self? [Pretends a very serious, vacant look and everyone laughs] There are also many oppressive things like trying to live as the Absolute or trying to live as a particular state. It may be even heavier than trying to live as a good person; trying to live as the Absolute. How to live it? [Laughs]

Q: I found myself waiting and I know that I probably shouldn’t. I try not to, but I still find myself waiting on something to happen. I try the best I can to follow your instruction, to not to put any interpretation or follow a thought. I struggle with that a lot. That’s that. I have a question that I want to ask you but it is such an open question and I don’t know if there is identity behind it but the question is ‘Why are you in my life?’ You know, I sit and I think sometimes that I am truly blessed to have discovered Mooji and discovered the teachings and the pointings and to have a personal relationship with you. What else could I want? To have you personally point to me, I feel that should be enough to have what I probably shouldn’t even be desiring. But I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m trying to make a story out of something; but that’s that. I don’t know what else to say. I’ll just probably go around and around…

A: Yes. The first part was just this idea of waiting. ‘I’m just waiting for something to happen.’ But the truth is really not in time.

Right Now: What is here? What is apparent to you?

Don’t judge it. Don’t give me a conclusion, actually. Just taste it for yourself.

Maybe speaking emotionally for a minute, I would say that if all of humanity could just have few moments of this un-judged moment, every day, every week, maybe every month, it would be enough.

In fact, this seems to be the theme most times when we speak. I’m saying give yourself this gift. Give yourself this gift of leaving one moment un-judged.

Just this one moment un-judged.

So, waiting is just an idea of the future … or just a projection. Nobody has met this future.

Q: I remember that Papaji [Sri Poojaji] said ‘He who has done it would know he has done it.’ I guess I’m waiting for that. I guess that’s what I’m waiting for; that he who has done it would know he has done it and to know I have done it. Like, I know you did it. I look at you and I know you did it. I look at Mooji, I know he did it. You know? And I notice beyond a belief or a thought, I know that I want that. I want it the right way; I don’t want no identity, I don’t want nothing. Smash me; whatever. Sometimes I think the only way to get that is suicide, Father. I’m not thinking about doing it or nothing but I have considered that, you know? … not suicide itself but that idea, like maybe that’s the only way to have freedom is just to totally be done with this. Because I want it so bad. I’ve been wanting it ever since I could remember what liberation was or freedom was or forgiveness of sins was. I just wanted to be in alignment and I never could do it. I’m always doing some kind of sin, some kind of perversion, some kind of something. I just want it to be done. I’ve been wanting it to be done; to the point where I am like ‘God, somebody, you got to do something because I want it so bad!’ And the fact that I want it so bad and nothing’s being done and I’m seeing all of us in the Sangha as well wanting something so bad … and just being told that ‘It is already Here’ … but it not being here. I don’t know. And then I don’t want to get off the computer with you today. I feel okay for the moment, then I’m just tired of going back and forth. [Silence] And then I don’t want to actually have this in front of the Sangha. I don’t know what else to do, though.

A: This longing, this ‘I want it so bad’…. I have experienced it and experienced it here. [Puts hand on his heart] Sometimes full of frustration, the same way; anger even at the Masters. I never actually had the courage to shout at any of the Masters but I certainly felt like it at times. I certainly felt like it at times. And I know that mostly it happened … (this anger, this frustration, this ‘Really, I want it! Why am I not getting it?!’) … it was coming the most with Nisargadatta Maharaj. I was just feeling like ‘Why does he make it sound so simple?’ … like he [the questioner] is saying … just to hear that ‘It’s just Here’ … this kind of thing, that: You just Are. But I couldn’t even find this ‘I Am’ and it was so frustrating.

So, I don’t want to say that it’s a bad thing or that this longing is detrimental or anything like that. That’s why, how it seems to unfold here, is just every day to remind you of what is deeper that what you think is true; what you think, even your judgments about yourself. Because in the freedom that I recognize, in the truth that I recognize, it was not about the one that wanted the freedom. It is really not about that one. But I know it maybe doesn’t even sound helpful for the short term to hear this.

If this one is burning through this, the one who wants (not just this, but the one who can want anything) it is burning right now. It is auspicious. But if that one is looking for a statement or a guarantee or something like that, saying that ‘Okay, this, this, and this’ or ‘Now, after you hear what I say, you will get it’ … it is not that, it doesn’t work like that.

So, how to have what Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] had, how to have what Papaji [Sri. Poonjaji] and Guruji [Sri Mooji] have? There is no template; there’s no way to define that. And to recognize that, to accept that you cannot really say. You cannot say whether or when or how … our way through. None of these you can really say. To accept that is very good. To accept that is very important. And that frustration that comes upon hearing it, let it burn. Let it burn this idea of the individual ‘I’.

So, it is not a good answer. I don’t have like a good answer. But I do have my full, full blessings, my love. I am the daily reminding, the daily reminding of what You Are.

Q: Even the burning itself, isn’t that illusory? See, while we were talking, the only thing I was thinking was that I was happy to hear you, to see you. I felt satisfied in hearing your words. And I was asking myself ‘What is satisfied?’ You know? ‘What needs to be burned?’ You know, I’m there; I’m there. With all due respect, I know everything that you’re saying to be true. We talked about the ‘lights on’ thing, and I told you about the experience of nothing-ness and everything like that. So, with all of this and hearing what you’re saying now and all of that satisfaction, whatever … that waiting is still there. And the waiting for what I know is nothing to be waited for. So, I’ll wait. [Chuckles and puts his hands on his head and his head on the table]

A: I got in trouble a bit on Saturday when I said to my wife that ‘It’s just a thought’. So, if I can get in trouble with my wife, I can risk getting in trouble with you also. Because this is just a condition you are placing on yourself that ‘I’m just waiting.’ It is also just a thought. Like when you say ‘The waiting is still there’ … where is it?

I know the mind will say ‘Yes, but I know that.’ It is like waiting big time, but ‘I know there is no waiting’ kind of a thing. But actually, there is just… [opens his hands] We can play this ‘It’s just a thought’ game for a bit. It is a nice one. [Chuckles] It is not an enjoyable one necessarily, though. Because especially thoughts like this, which we feel are SO valid, you know: ‘Ananta hear me, I am just like waiting!’ And then there was some fire along with that report also. So, then it can feel like ‘Oh, but this is not just a thought. It is a valid representation of my reality.’ But as you look, even as you are looking now, you will see that it is not. It is not a valid representation of You in any way Right Now; or at any point of time. Of course, you can swear your allegiance to it. You can say ‘Of course, I’m waiting!’ [Smiles] You can claim that. But you will never be able to convince me that there is such a one who is actually waiting. So, then it is just notional. So, that is what I mean when I say ‘It’s just a thought.’

The good part of all of this is that your lack of freedom or your lack of not being exactly the same as Ananta is also just a thought. And you might say that ‘It is apparent when I look at you that there is a difference’ but I want to say that ‘It is apparent when I look at you that there is no difference.’ If I say: Right Now [Snaps his fingers] Right Now, what is the difference between both of us? (if there is such a thing as both of us) … I would say ‘None.’ Truly from my heart, not encouraging you or something like that, I am speaking something which is directly pointing.

What is apparent to you Now? … if you don’t rush to nationalize it, if you don’t rush to deduce or infer? I’m just talking about that for years. For five years I’ve been speaking about this stuff, which is the same: It is completely apparent to you Right Now. Now, without conceptualizing it, can you point me to the difference between us?

Q: Of course not. What can I say? Of course not. Whenever you point to the Now, what can anyone ever say?

A: Yeah, and this which you just said is used both as a beautiful statement of the truth and sometimes as a complaint. I don’t know which way you are saying that. [Sangha laughter] Because also as a complaint, you are saying ‘Now, Father, it is fine, but when I leave Satsang, when I meet my other work colleagues or a friend, then it seems very different’ or something like that. But I hope you are saying it as a form of (which is to say that) ‘Every Now, we just see it. This, you see; what It Is.’ There is no duality here, no distinction, no difference. And it is completely, completely apparent, completely apparent to You … not to your mind, to You.

Q: I will tell you that when you were just sitting there with our eyes closed, that’s pretty much when I get caught up in the mind. Can I sit on your lap? I actually visualize you sitting like that and I shrink down and jump in your lap and just sit. [Laughs] And that’s where I have to stay, Father. That’s where I have to stay. And when I say that, that is how I stay now, is on your lap. And the mind comes up ‘Is that enough?’ I just sit. I don’t know what else to do. Thank you.

A: Thank you, my dear. If, as you say so beautifully, that you are Here in the lap of the Divine, the Divine Presence, then let the mind say whatever it wants. When it says ‘I’m still waiting’ [see that] ‘But I’m on my Father’s lap.’ [If it says]: ‘But you’re not like Bhagavan was’ [see that] ‘I am on my Father’s lap.’ And see that then Father’s lap cannot be secondary to any other position. That is the simplest, simplest. Then it doesn’t matter whether you heard anything else in Satsang ever or not.

[Reading from chat]: “How to deal with the fear/anxiety of forgetting something important, of forgetting some important work that has to be done? Mind uses this trick when I try to live in the present moment of Now. Although I know it is a trick of the mind, some part of this anxiety or fear seems real.”

Yes. So, we speak of this often, where, in a sense, our prayer then becomes ‘Dear Lord, I’m surrendering everything to you but just make sure you don’t forget the important stuff.’

Like, who is doing the most important thing right now? Okay, let’s break it down. Let’s not even talk about existence, let’s make it very ‘real’ … as the mind likes to call it; very ‘real’ according to the mind. It’s the most unreal, but let’s presume for a minute.

So, suppose that there is important work to be done by this body. What is the most important thing?
Sangha: Breathing.

A: Breathing. Or the heart to beat. The body has to be alive for some important action to happen. Who is doing that? It must be supremely intelligent. You don’t even have to say ‘God’. Whatever is doing it must be supremely intelligent. It seems to be quite consistent with the heartbeat, with millions of processes in the body. Let’s stick to the body. All this is happening and there seems to be a Supreme Intelligence which is driving all of this, running all of this. Now, if there was some Intelligence to surrender to, would it be to this Intelligence? … or would it be to some localized version of a mental sort of conceptual intelligence?

Now, look around in the world, look around in nature, look around at the sun, the planets, this entire existence: are they all thinking about it? The sun is saying ‘Today, I should rise from the west’? Gravity is saying ‘Today I should exert a force of acceleration which is this strong’? Electricity is saying ‘Okay, my electrons are a bit tired so today I’m going to sleep’? The DNA, the plants in nature; everything is just unfolding beautifully. Now, it is this strangely human condition that we feel like we need to understand all of this, to get all of this and then make it run the way we want. And this is a short-lived fallacy usually. One of my favorite verses which I read recently was:

Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly

Man got to ask himself ‘why, why, why’.

Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land

Man got to tell himself he understand.

So, it’s very, very strong in this world: I must know what I’m doing, I must do it in this way and that is what is right.

What happens when you allow things to unfold? When you allow things to unfold… when you’re empty of how to look at a beautiful mountain, you’re just looking at a beautiful mountain. And supposedly, all this work has to be done so we can come to a secure place; some peace, some joy. But when do these moments actually happen? When you’re in this simple openness, this simple allowing.

In a way, it’s like the story of those two farmers. One was just sitting. The other one, who was very egoic, in a way, comes and says ‘What are you doing just sitting around? Why don’t you do something?’

‘So, what should I do?’

‘Go sow the seeds in your field!’

‘What will happen then?’

‘When the time is right, you can harvest them.’

‘Then what should I do?’

‘Then you can sell all your produce and make a lot of money.’

‘Then?’

‘You can have a house.’

‘Then?’

‘You can get married and have children.’

‘Then, what will I do?’

‘Then you can come to a point where you’re done and you can just sit in peace.’

So, this man says ‘But I’m doing that now.’

So, what is important? What do we give importance to? Now, again, don’t make that classic mistake of saying ‘Okay, therefore, now my work is unimportant’ or something like that. You’re just divesting it of the label ‘important’ … we’re not giving it a new label ‘unimportant’. The same story could have been told about somebody who was working in the kitchen or chopping wood or staring at a spreadsheet. It’s not to do with the content of what is appearing. It is our idea of what is right, what is wrong, what is big, what is small, what we want, what we don’t want.

The most important work, even at the body level, is being done for you. Do we have enough gratitude for that, to start with? [Smiles] ‘Thank you, Lord, for beating my heart.’

If you don’t consider yourself the body, what is the work? It is just to exist, no? Just to Be.

So, who’s doing the Being? Who is existing right now? Who is holding up this Being? Because if this was not, the waking state would not be. Then how would we do the work? If Being Itself did not arise, if Consciousness did not come, then how to do the work? Empty of time and space, how to do the work? You see? What work can we take into the sleep state with us? Forget about death. Say, even tonight we go to sleep, and actually every time you go to sleep, there is no guarantee that you will wake up tomorrow as this. That is what will wake up tomorrow. But still we feel like something so important is there to do.

As sometimes the Sages will say that ‘Even more important is to figure out That One that does not go to sleep or wake up, that is not born and is not dying. What is That Eternal One?’

That seems too difficult to figure out. But the simplest way to come to that is not through figuring it out; it is by dropping all that we think is true but actually is just limited, is just conceptual.

[Re-reads part of chat]: “Mind uses this trick when I try to live in the present moment of Now.”

Mind uses this trick to convince you that some important email has to be sent. And in these kinds of ‘first world’ problems that we have, what is the important work for most of us? It is not a question of even survival of the body usually. It is more in terms of some idea of progress; some idea. And usually it is like you’re saying, that ‘Just when I feel like I can just be open, empty, effortless, the mind says ‘Oh! But that important email has to be sent right now! The world will stop spinning unless you send it right now.’ And you might leave this whole thing and decide to start your work and forget all about the email. [Chuckles] Then, that’s fine; then the mind is not saying this is so important.

It’s good to see (you say) that it’s a trick. This is already good. So, play with this. Don’t label anything as important or unimportant. Don’t swing around like the pendulum. (Let the mind do that; that’s fine). And see how life unfolds.

Now, the mind will play this trick on you and say ‘But I’m just going to become passive; I’ll just lay down like a vegetable all day’ or something like that. There is no guarantee like that. As sometimes I will say … the old Master said ‘Before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water. After enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water.’ But I feel like we can add an ‘…or not.’ Because who is to say? [how it will be]

[Reading from chat]: “Father, exposing this, as it surfaces when you say ‘You are as liberated as a Sage.’ Ramana [Maharshi] shared a story of the one who fell into samadhi by the Ganges [river] after asking his devotee for a glass of water, then came out of it years later asking: ‘Where is my glass of water?’ So, [Ramana said] there were still vasanas. The thought comes ‘There must be lifetimes more still for this one [herself] who is nowhere near the state of even samadhi.’ Then I ask: Who is even here? Who does this pertain to? … and [surrender it] ‘Guru Kripa Kevalam’. There’s no way this mind could claim awakening (even with Aware Presence Here Now unquestionable) … so that’s a good part of this. When Bhagavan says it, there’s a feeling that there must be more I should be doing. But at this point, there is no one here to do anything, so some anxiety comes. Surrendering it and wondering what you would say.”

A: Yes. Now, that’s why many times I say that: For some time, let me make the claims for you. So, even his claim that ‘When you’re open and empty, you’re as liberated as a Sage’ … let that be my claim on your behalf. You don’t hold onto this concept. Because this concept itself can be quite a strong notion; in fact, can be a super-solid notion which has some great trouble being shaken off. So, you remain as open, as empty, as possible. Let all the claims and disclaimers come from me for now.

What I mean to say when I’m saying that ‘You’re as liberated as a Sage’ is that there is nowhere more to go.

When you’re empty of notions: That’s it.

So, all these ideas of what should happen, what should not happen … [let them go].

Even the best way to deal with these vasanas (as you call them) is to meet them with full openness.

So, it’s all about just this Right Now, there is nowhere more to go.

The Truth is apparent … although wordless.

Full freedom is here, although empty of special experience.

Then you are free from this conceptual baggage.

That’s really it, actually.

[With the thought] ‘I have to fulfill the role of a daughter’ … the question then comes ‘But what is a daughter?’

What is painful is the implication. The painful is not that it’s not healthy to just look at what the term means; the painful is that ‘If I see though it (that ‘daughter’ is just a concept) then I will feel like I will disown my parents or something, or I will not take good care of them.’ But these are all just presumptions. What I am speaking of has nothing to do with the actions of the body; it is just our attachment to this limited notion of ourself. Because what is the mind’s alternative to being a daughter? It’s like ‘I am nothing to them.’ But isn’t being them more intimate than being a daughter?

The mind will always sell us these horror stories. ‘Oh, if I am not a daughter, then I must be like nothing to them.’ But it’s still from this limited perspective of ‘I am the body and they are the body.’ I’m saying that if there is no distinction at all, is there a greater love than this: just this one Being?

S: Like ‘No Guru and disciple.’

A: Yeah, the same. When we say ‘No Guru and disciple’ … I was saying that even when I hear something like ‘No Guru’ or something like that, I still feel a pinch a bit. But it’s because the mind has this alternative: ‘That means…’ What does it mean anyway? Just This: Is-ness. ‘Okay, if I’m not that, then I must be just this.’ It takes it to mean like an emptiness of love or an emptiness of empathy or an emptiness of all of these things, which is not what is being spoken of. It is being empty of these notions that we carry that burden us and make this world seem so small and make ourselves seem so limited.

What are you without your boundaries? You have to taste that, then say. If you find that it will just become like ‘a nothing’ …, like smaller than an insect or something, then you tell me.

Who are you in the Unborn?

[Silence]

When you are in this sort of suffering, in this kind of thing, it’s a great opportunity to check. It’s a great opportunity to check: What conclusion you are making? And if we start scratching and seeing the validity of this conclusion, you find ‘What is it about?’

Just to further explore this particular question, because it is very primal in a way: There is fear or suffering which arises to explore ‘What is a daughter?’ … because the fear is that then that will go, and it will be replaced with … like you will become casual strangers or something. [Smiles] But nobody is saying that. That’s just the mind’s ‘Quasimodo’. I heard Guruji [Sri Mooji] talking about the mind saying ‘But I will become like Quasimodo.’ It’s just versions of that. It’s all different versions of that. ‘I will forget who my family is. I will not recognize them or I will treat them like they are strangers.’ This is all just ideas … because we fear the unknown so much. ‘What is going to happen if I truly explore: What is the truth? And what happens to all my support systems, all the ideas that I have built up over the years?’

There will come a time where, upon hearing stuff like this, you will not use any of this as a conclusion. You will just empty yourself from your conclusions. It doesn’t need to be replaced. It can be plucked out but doesn’t have to be replaced with a fresh thorn. [Smiles] Because the mind will say ‘If I’m not a daughter, then what am I?’ And something may not like hearing ‘But then you are them’ or something like that. ‘Okay, that is some comfort or something. Or there is full oneness or something.’ But throw that away also. That can seem a bit scary. That can seem a bit strong. [Smiles] It’s just the mind’s fear-mongering.

S: Yeah, it doesn’t seem like (for example) ‘I’m not their son, therefore, I’m not going to send them a birthday card or something.’ You know? There’s no ‘therefore’. There is no conflict in that space.

A: No cause and effect. No ‘Because this, therefore this.’

S: Yeah.

A: What is the term: ‘be-cause’? Like ‘This is the cause of that.’ That is why I said: The only cause (if you have to say it) is Consciousness or God.

A: How would you experience separation if you had no notion?

Q: As long as there is an ‘I’ to experience it….

A: Exactly. As long as we even have this (like we were just saying jokingly the other day about the ‘I’ thought; what the letter means) … once you see that the ‘I’ thought is just a thought… what does that mean? Okay, this we can deconstruct this a bit.

Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] said these beautiful words, that ‘The ‘I’ thought must leave you and then you will be free. The ‘I’ thought is the basis of all suffering, all ego.’

Now what would it mean to ‘leave you’? Like what would it mean ‘the ‘I’ thought must leave you’? If you look at that, we just have to see that if this idea of ‘I’ is no longer of reference to anything, then it has left you. If it is no longer a reference to anything, it has left you.

Don’t try to move the pointer from the ‘person’ to the Absolute, because if it could still be referenced in that way, it is still not the Absolute. If it is still being pointed to in that way, it is still not the Absolute. So, see that it doesn’t refer to anything.

Who does ‘I’ refer to?

This is very sweet because this is exactly what Bhagavan meant when he said ‘The dropping of the false knowledge, false ignorance, is the rising of true Knowledge’ … which means that if I no longer refer to anything, then in a way, it refers to Truth. (Forget about that second part.) [Chuckles] It is no longer a pointer (to use a software term) it is no longer a pointer. The ‘I’ thought is gone. And again, the best, best news always is: It is gone Now.

So, this idea of ‘journey and gradations’ … that path where [they say] ‘You do this and you do that and then you will do this and then the ‘I’ thought will go and that will be the ultimate’ is also notional. ‘I’ does not mean anything Right Now, in this very moment.

We were doing this for some time before you came. I was asking everyone to say ‘I’ … asking ‘What you are saying, are you saying it Advaita-ically?’ [Chuckles] So, you can try: Just say ‘I’

Sangha: ‘I’.

A: What does that point to?

S: It is body/mind.

A: Body/mind. See? Okay, that is the thing. Who is this ‘I’? That is the inquiry.

But as you empty of this notion, it doesn’t point to anything; it is just another sound. In a different language, to somebody who doesn’t know English, ‘I’ is ‘I’. In Marathi [regional Indian language] it would be like calling the mother is ‘I’ [Chuckles] It references mother. It does not reference ‘me’. So, there is nothing special in ‘I’. Like you can hear the ‘I’ thought but it is not that the word, the alphabet letter ‘I’ itself contains some magical properties to make it like this thing. It is just the meaning that has been given to it. And when it is divested of this meaning …?  Because when we check, every time we check ‘Who am I?’ we see that ‘What does it mean? I can not find any object, any tangible entity, to which it is pointing.’

S: But who is the one who is receiving this, investigating … and all these thoughts fighting again? There is still is this ‘I’. The thought is still there.

A: This is how it becomes circular, in a way. Once you see that there is no ‘I’ you will see who is that ‘I’.

S: So, there will be some ‘I’?

A: [Chuckles] No. Okay, let’s see if I can put in another way. If the answer can be asserted or negated, it is not it. If I can positively assert ‘Yes, there is an I’ (whatever version or way you want to put to it) or you can say ‘There is no I’ then it is not what we are talking about. It is just beyond these opposites because neither answer is true. Neither assertion nor denial of anything is true, actually. Because (that’s what I’ve been saying form the beginning of Satsang today is that) any conceptual representation does not actually accurately represent What Is.

That’s why ‘What do you know when you know nothing?’ is a useful way to put it. And this much openness is also good; to see that ‘I don’t know whether there is or there isn’t’. That much is more than enough.

Q: Yeah, Father, it feels like that when I ask ‘Who am I?’ There is no tangible entity which I experience in that. So, it’s basically saying, in a way, that ‘I don’t even know what it is.’

A: And yet you cannot say that it is nothing.

Q: Yet, we cannot say that because there is a sense of existence.

A: Yeah, and then what happens is I used to use the term ‘no-thing’ very often but I realized that that was becoming a thing. Like we can make a ‘no-thing’ thing.

Q: Yes, exactly.

A: That’s why I like inquiry in this way: ‘So, what is?’ … ‘Okay, I am not finding anything tangible.’ … ‘So, what are you finding?’

Q: What are you finding? I find myself … enough to really know who I am, to experience myself. Definitely, it’s not body/mind. Now I don’t experience it in that way but there is a sense of existence which I always feel when I ask this question myself.

A: Because you feel it, does that make it ‘you’?

Q: Hmm … I can’t say, Father.

A: You can’t even say that. Because I’m eating the ice cream doesn’t make me ice cream. [Chuckles] So, it depends how you want to use the term.

Q: Okay.

A: But truly, what is there? Even in the term ‘I’ there isn’t some inherent meaning. That’s why this idea of this ‘I- thought’ is just like any other thought. Of course, it is important to look at it sometimes like that because it’s like the central thought around which all these thoughts are constructed. So, it’s like that Jenga base block in Jenga; a big thing which is supporting a lot of other stuff so we can pull from there.

What does ‘I’ mean? It is another way of asking the same question: ‘Who am I?’ What does ‘I’ mean to you?

S: A temporary idea.

A: So, what is the permanent then? If ‘I’ itself is temporary, whose conclusion is this?

S: Seems like it would take another ‘I’ to explain this. Who knows it?

A: Yes, that was this question. But who is it to either know or not know, to do or not do, to pick up or to drop? It is a nice inquiry. But the answer is not in ‘there is’ or ‘there is not’. The answer is not in ‘There is such an I’ or ‘There is not’. But don’t take my word for it; investigate.

S: It seems like it shouldn’t begin. I mean, it seems like it forms ideas. But the investigation requires…

A: Only if there is an idea, do you need investigation. If you are empty of all notions, there is nothing to investigate.

That’s why I have said that: In our way of sharing Satsang, there are two things which are mainly talked about. One is self-inquiry and the other is surrender. Both of these are actually the same; there is actually no difference, but they can feel or seem a bit different initially. But both of these only apply when you have a notion about yourself. When you are open, completely open, completely empty, in this moment you are no different from Bhagavan.

A: We make a distinction between perception and creation, between imagination and this world.

Q: Anything which is not Now is imagination or creation?

A: Yes, but even the content of the Now is what? This world, which is appearing Now, what can we say about it? Is it not perception? And how is perception different from imagination? How is memory different from this appearance Now?

If we go hunting for notions, you will see that all of this is notions. And the good part about this is, like Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] said ‘True knowledge is only the dropping of false ignorance.’ So, it is not to go from one set of certainties to a new set of certainties. It is only the dropping of these ideas which are just ideas … or not even dropping, just seeing them as ideas. Because many times, we’re just like ‘I have to drop this now. I have to drop this now.’ But we don’t drop the ‘I have to drop that.’ So, noticing is the light way; to notice that these things are just ideas, to see that any conceptual representation I can make about any of this doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny.

What are your thoughts? They are just conceptual representations of ‘What Is’ … like trying to distill ‘What Is’ into a concept. But what is the need to do that? Why do you need to distill ‘What Is’ into a concept? In a way, it can be said: only to play in a limited way.

What about the ‘Is-ness’ itself? … un-distilled, un-conceptualized. So, we don’t need to distill ‘What Is’ into some idea, because it is never valid anyway. As Guruji [Sri Mooji] told me the first time: ‘If you begin to know, it messes up anyway. It is never true.’ And I still feel like … (it’s been what, 8 years, 9 years?) I still feel like I’m hearing it Now; I’m hearing it fresh Now. It was the first thing he told me.

[Silence]

When we think we know what something is, that is the door to suffering. By the way, it includes everything that is being said in Satsang also. These are just the thorns. But use the thorns, then throw them away.

In your openness, in your emptiness, all the Truth that needs to be discovered, the Self that you are looking for, is realized. There is no distinction between openness and realization.

[Silence]

There is no distinction between openness and realization. In that one moment of openness, you are no different from Bhagavan. This is what Dogen meant when he said ‘Truth, liberation and practice are one and the same.’  For those not in Satsang, it can feel a bit confusing. The practice part especially because it can feel like ‘I Am That; I don’t need a practice.’ But that’s what he is also saying, that remaining open, not holding on, not clinging, is the same as liberation.

Then what happens? Then the popular notion of permanency comes. ‘But isn’t liberation supposed to be permanent?’ And we cling to that notion and it feels like ‘It has gone.’ Our projections about the future … nobody has ever met this thing called future, and nobody has ever met this thing called the past. If there was such a thing, where is it? Another Sage said ‘All these objects, if there was a past, are they here to go into the past? Or they are going to be here to come into the future?’ So, this much anyone will readily admit, that there is no such tangible thing as past or future. These are just conceptual. Don’t let the idea of permanence keep you permanently stuck. [Chuckles]

A: Any questions?

Q: It’s not all that bad, Father.

A: It’s not all that bad. What isn’t? [Laughs]

Q: The mind doing this checking.

A: The mind can keep doing that. In fact, it may.

Q: Also the good thing is, gratitude comes out of it. Some benefit is there.

A: Gratitude from…?

Q: The things that were contracting before, they are no longer contracting. When that is recognized, gratitude naturally flows. So, it’s not all that bad. [Smiles]

A: Suppose we didn’t have the term ‘contracting’? No expanding, no contracting. Suppose it meant nothing. Would you survive without it? This is a term I hear quite often in reports. ‘This contraction is happening’ … implying that it should not be. Suppose our entire goal was to contract back completely. [Laughter] Just contract completely into nothingness. You would buy it? If I sold it for two hours? Suppose you completely misunderstood what is being shared and suppose the goal is just to contract more and more, till it contracts so much that it can’t be found. [Laughter] Already started? [Laughs] How much can it contract, if it keeps contracting?

So, we apply these benchmarks and, in a way, these benchmarks are just avoidance; a claim that ‘I know what’s going on with me’. And these are popular, even in spiritual circles; very popular, in fact. Because even while we might be sitting in Satsang, we might have this sense of ‘Ah, good expansion happening today.’ [Laughs] But I never said anything about expansion. I never said anything about something needing to happen. What is happening is that as the words are being shared in Satsang, inwardly the checker guy is saying ‘Good expansion today.’ Some other days, it’s saying ‘What is Ananta doing today? It’s full contraction only.’ Suppose you were out of that merry-go-round of expansion and contraction? Because You are, actually. You were never in the expansion or contraction. It never defined you anyway. It defines you as much as ‘How much traffic there is on this road?’ How much does that define you? Nothing that appears and disappears has the power to define you in any way.

So, are you checking now; upon hearing this is expansion happening? [Laughs]

If it is Guru Kripa Kevalam, then it is ‘Guru Kripa Kevalam.’ [All is God’s will or Guru’s will; all is in God’s care or Guru’s care; all is the will of Consciousness]

All judgments about ourselves (in fact, all judgments) are just like a declaration of independence; individual independence or something. [Laughs] Even a statement like ‘Oh, everything is inter-dependent’ … if you were to say inter-dependent, that means there are many, many things that are dependent on each other. So, all judgments, in a way, are fraught with this kind of mischief.

Okay, let’s try to make it a bit simpler. If you had a kitchen full of the best food in the world, would you be running here and there because you are hungry? Your kitchen is completely full right now, but if you start checking ‘Is this Belgian chocolate or Swiss chocolate? Is this expiry date one month away or two years away?’ … this kind of stuff, then it is in the mind’s nature to convince you that maybe you should run about a bit and get better stuff.

If God, if the Divinity, would not be Here Now, full and complete, then that God, that Divinity, would not be worth it. I would myself advise you to get off this spiritual bus. If Your Self was not already full and complete … and apparent (you see?) … The mind’s trick is to say ‘When will I recognize this?’ Perceptually, conceptually … or truly?

How many of you are still waiting for some perception to happen to convince you?

No hands? Accha. [Okay] [Laughs]

Another way to say it is:

How many of you are waiting for some experience?

A: So, let me just recap. [You said]: An experience happened in which you could not find this ‘me’.

Q: Yes, yes.

A: This ‘me’ … the individual ‘me.’ Everything seems like the same. I’m presuming that you could not tell difference between that and this and all of this?

Q: Yes.

A: Now, if I was to tell you that actually your natural state Right Now (in every Right Now) has only been this; and in some moments either the mind goes away or it is just not believable.

Q: Either the mind goes away…

A: Or it is just not believable; and those are those experiences.

Q: Yeah, so it is not that I have a constant thought ‘I am an individual entity’. Okay.

A: Yes, yes.

Q: It is just that the feeling, the overall sensation, is heavier, let’s say.

A: This is good. We spoke exactly about this today. So now, what is it? How heavy is it?

Q: Today it is different, I don’t know why. [Chuckles]

A: Today you’re completely free.

Q: No. [Laughs] It is strange to explain, because it’s very subtle. It may be that every time a thought of the supposed-individual entity is coming, I buy it.

A: Okay, so don’t. [Smiles]

[Silence]

Q: The mind is fighting to to get his position empty.

A: Yes, yes. What does it have to do with you, when the mind is fighting?

Q: Ah … nothing.

A: Because if you remain convinced in this way that some feeling has to change, some thought has to change, some experience has to change or it has to be that … like often I say, the spiritual experiences sometimes becomes like chains that themselves bind us. And whatever might happen now, the mind will say ‘I know it wasn’t that’ and it uses memory as some sort of evidence. I promise you that that which was there then is Here Now.

Q: Okay, I know. I know that what was there at that time is Here. But somehow, there are still those distractions, those ideas, those thoughts. I feel, for instance (this is my belief, you know this is how I project it) that you are not touched by the thoughts. They come and go; the feelings, the sensations. But even when you clearly know (for me) the attention goes a lot still to the thoughts.

A: Yeah. So, how about we start not giving so much belief to these ones?

Q: By putting my attention more on what I really am?

A: I’m saying how about if we don’t give belief to these ones to begin with. And then, if you feel like ‘This belief is just too much, too much’ then we can say: Okay, maybe we can rest attention on ‘I Am’ … or what feels more natural to you.

[Proposes a game re: this, but then Q says]:

Q: Okay, can I just say something? [Smiles]

A: Yeah.

Q: Thank you. Because the following thought was ‘I want to stop believing in my thoughts’. But in these thoughts, there is an individual belief. You know?

A: Yeah, exactly. So, not even this. Just let them all come and go.

Okay, so I am going to invoke Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi]. Okay?

As long as it feels like you have a choice, the only choice you have to make is to not go with what your thoughts are saying.

And then it will also be seen that even that was just grace itself.

How would it be if there was nothing more to get … and nothing could be lost also?

[Looks around the room; everyone quiet] So far, okay. [Chuckling]

What if there was nothing even found or gotten? And no end of seeking also?

Sangha: No end of seeking? The seeking goes on?

A: [Chuckling] No. If there was nothing found and no end of seeking, and nothing gotten and nowhere to go, … then? [Silence] This is worth evaluating. [Chuckling] That’s why I said the first part is okay but the idea that ‘Now, it must come to this stage or phase where there is no seeking’ then we’re still in the intellect, isn’t it? If it’s either seeking or not seeking, and one of those is a truer position than the other, then this is true just for the intellect.

How to say it? If we’re still able to make these kinds of conclusions about ourselves … and it’s very fancy also in Advaita especially to make this statement: ‘When I used to seek in those days, but now I stopped seeking.’ This kind of thing. And what is the reference to the ‘I’ still?

So, the point is not to give better attributes to the non-existent one. It is to see that it is non- existent; that no reference actually can apply. So, either seeking or not seeking, who do they apply to? To the idea that we have, to the version that we hold mentally about who we are.

So, if this body, for the rest of its life, every day seeks the answer to ‘Who am I?’ … it’s okay. And if it doesn’t, it’s okay. Neither makes it about You. No position is really true about You; even the ‘no position’-position. Because we can hear all this also intellectually, with the intellect and say ‘Okay, now my true position is that I have no position’ or ‘I have the absolute position’.  But the Absolute position which the Sages have spoken about is not a position. Got it?

[Silence, looking around] ‘No’ is the right answer. [Chuckling]

So, to seek or not to seek … that is not the question at all. [Laughter in the room] Also ‘To Be or not to Be’ is never a question. What can you do about it; to Be or not Be? Can you stop Being?

Can’t do it.

Can you come into Being? Can’t do it.

Who wakes you up when you’re fast asleep; what wakes up the Being?

So, anything that is (let’s say) an appearance, after You Are, after the Being wakes up and all that appears … who controls all that?

Ananta: What is the highest version of Truth; the highest version of Truth that you know?

Sangha: Peace and Joy.

A: The highest version of truth that you know is Peace and Joy. What about higher than that? … is what?

S: I have no idea.

A: No idea? What about the Self, the Absolute?

S: I do not know what that is.

A: That is impressive already. [Chuckles]

S: That which has no form.

A: That which has no form?

Now, is it not a way to give form …to that which has no form …by saying it has no form; by even saying ‘formless’, for example?

S: I cannot describe it. So, I would say ‘That which I can’t describe’.

A: That which you can’t describe … is also a description of what? [Chuckles] It makes the negative description. ‘I can’t describe ‘it’.’ But you described it: I can’t describe ‘it’.

S: Okay, I’ll shut my mouth. [Chuckles]

A: That is no answer also.

S: Cannot describe it, because you have to use the mind.

A: Yeah, so even the answer that ‘Okay, then I will just keep quiet or keep my mouth shut’ does not apply because everybody who has kept their mouth shut could also be holding onto many versions of truth. It is not a just a question of the spoken concept.

Okay, let us make it simpler. What is the biggest lie that you know? … The truth we saw; it cannot be described. Biggest lie?

S: To say ‘I’m right’? [Chuckles]

A: Are you right about that? [Laughter in the room]

S: No, it is a lie.

A: Ah, it is a lie. So then? [Chuckles] Are you wrong that it is a lie?

S: I have no idea. [Chuckles]

A: So, you don’t know.

S: I don’t know.

S: The biggest lie is for me is my self-image.

A: ‘The biggest lie is my self-image.’ What could have been a bigger lie than that?

S: Everything that is known.

A: Everything that is known is a lie.

S: What I assumed I knew.

A: What you assumed you knew is a lie.

S: Knowledge itself.

A: Knowledge itself. And all this now …you know all this? [Chuckles]

So, to say that knowledge itself is a lie is knowledge? Or no?

S: Yes. [Chuckles]

A: So, if you manage to replace the concept that ‘It is true’ with a new concept ‘It is a lie’ it is still knowledge.

S: Still working on that paradigm.

A: In that paradigm… But beyond this paradigm? Beyond the paradigms … beyond these two intellectual boundaries of Absolute / greatest Truth and biggest lie, this is a very small compartment actually. You might feel like ‘Okay, the entirety of life is contained in It’. But You are not contained in this. You are not contained in any description about YourSelf in a word in the dictionary. We looked at it many times where we said ‘What is the dictionary actually telling us? It is more words for each word and each word has more words for each word and it is all only self-referential.

So, another way of saying this very simply is that old story with the Sufi Saint who visits the King. And he goes… (we will not repeat it. I cannot repeat it as well as Guruji [Sri. Mooji] does; it’s the same). They go through the entire spectrum of beggar to King to Emperor to God. [The guard asks: ‘Are you a beggar? Are you a king? Are you God?’… The Sufi Saint says: ‘No, higher than that.’] And In the end, what does he say? ‘Higher than that.’ And the guard says ‘But higher than that … is nothing.’

Now, I would say ‘Higher than that nothing.’ [Smiles] Because otherwise, like the Sage said ‘That nothing I Am’ can still leave a reference for us, which is like some idea some dark empty space or something like that.

S: Even high is like…

A: Yeah, exactly. [Smiles] Yes, higher or lower, yes.

S: You know, it’s like a scale, higher, lower …

A: Exactly, exactly.

A: Now beyond these boundaries (I could say) is a very innocent life. But you would make a concept even out of that. [Chuckles] If you pick up lot of ideas of what it means to be innocent then that is not innocence.

But I want to show you, I want to tell you and show you that it is not as important as we think; it is also not as impossible as we think to step back from this paradigm. In fact, it is naturally so, Right Now. Before you start to think about it, it is naturally so.

And our notions in a way are just an avoidance of this. So, to step back from this paradigm of the known is very natural. It is already Your existent condition.  It’s a habit, in a way, to try and grasp it with our knowing, with a concept. It’s like almost like when you look at the sun directly, it is too much and you feel like ‘Okay, it’s better if I look at a painting.’ So, to go to our concept of what life is, is to step away from what life is. It is all within life itself; but the seeming- play within that.

There are very simple questions that we cannot answer, like: ‘What’s going on?’ And we have been taught that it is not a good place to be in; this ‘not knowing what is going on’. We have been thought that we must always know what is going on. But we have never known. And what happens? We attach ourselves to our versions of what we think is going on and when that version starts to fail, then we don’t like it and say ‘Oh, my life changed’ and ‘This happened’. But we have never understood life in that way anyway.

Like, what is going on now? [Chuckles] We don’t really know. Because if you were to describe this, you would find it impossible. Even at a metaphysical level or something like that, even phenomenally, what is going on? A seeming-body made up of trillions of atoms is sitting in front of twenty other trillion atom-seeming-objects. What is Here? And plus, there are seemingly-objects from all over the world sitting at various points of time, listening to some energy which we have given meaning to, as words with language. It is just a set of sounds. And what they mean to each of you is different. If I were to ask each of you ‘What did you hear in Satsang so far?’ … everybody will say very differently. What is really being shared? Where is the sound happening?