BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

So, there’s been a lot of discussion yesterday, I saw, and this morning on Facebook about the noise in satsang. And I feel like we’re one family, so I feel that there’s nothing that we must hide from each other so let’s maybe bring it up for some discussion.

I just wanted to talk for a few minutes about this topic about noise in satsang and how it’s become too noisy and things like this. And I feel that we must look at it in two ways, because there’s some reports which I really enjoyed hearing, and some which I didn’t enjoy so much (I have to be honest and say). The one I that I enjoyed…, I enjoyed Azhar’s the best actually; he said ‘Father, the audio set up in the room is like this, where the mic is like this, so if you’re using the internal mic from the Mac [computer], the sound from the room also feels like it’s very close and it is being projected to the rest of the world’. Very practical, no judgment, just clear that this is a practical issue and this is what we can do to resolve it. So like this. And some had suggestions that maybe we had an area that is not so audible through the mic, and things. So I enjoyed hearing these practical suggestions about what could be done.

The second aspect is this aspect that I really wanted all of us to contemplate together, which is this aspect of presuming to know what is going on. And I’m not pointing fingers at any of you, I’m just saying that generally it can be a mind tendency to say that ‘Yes, this one is just asking for attention. Either he or she is not getting enough attention so she’s just faking some noise so that she gets attention from me, or she gets attention from you’.

But do we really know this? Or isn’t it just another presumption from the mind? And even if we know this and someone is actually faking it, then do we know what is the best solution for them? Do we know whether the best solution is to be at the satsang or to come closer in satsang? We don’t know any of these things.

So what I felt to share is that I understand the practical aspect of it, and who doesn’t want to come to satsang and hear sound which is crystal clear? I understand this. And of course we haven’t been able to achieve that objective. [Chuckles] Not meant to be like that. But the second aspect that I wanted all of us to be able to look at is: What is the thing that we presume to know? Do we really know what is happening? Do we really know that there is no such thing as energetic release? Do we really know what is the best solution in either case; if it is an authentic energetic experience or a [inaudible] seemingly-fake experience? Do we really know [inaudible]  any of it? Or is it the same old functioning of the mind which says that ‘I love my brothers and sisters forever, unless it’s inconvenient’?

So, we must be able to look at these things and just not to blame anyone. Of course, I’m sure that if I was in a sangha I would also want it to be very quiet and things like this; I understand that. And we’ll look at what’s practically possible, like Azhar has suggested some solution to this where maybe I put the mic back; I realized that once I left the mic, the in-room sound was coming a lot more. I didn’t know that it’s bothering all of you so much actually. I just presumed that it’s my loud; that because it’s facing this way, my voice is the loudest. I just presumed that. But essentially that is not true. So, these practical things, of course, we can look at.

But let’s not be so quick to jump to conclusions and say ‘I know why this one is doing this’ and ‘They have no consideration for me and the rest of the sangha’. Do we really know any of this? And even if any of it is true, how do we know that it’s not better for them to come closer; make all the noise they can for a few satsangs and then get over with it? We don’t know.

I don’t know the answers to these things, but I do know that happens here is of Love, is the will of my Father. Some of you went so far as to say that ‘Okay, I can’t be in satsang anymore because it’s too noisy. I can’t be in satsang anymore because it’s too noisy’. And somehow that came as a surprise to me; and every time I read something like that it is a surprise to me because in my case, I would have gone to satsang if it was happening in a coal mine or a fish market. I feel that if Guruji [Sri Mooji] was sitting in a crowded marketplace surrounded by food vendors or fish sellers, I would show up every day.

So, I want to say that I’m not neglecting the practical aspect of it. In fact, if I had known earlier that it was so bothersome and I was not audible, we would have tried to render some experiments with the mic soon, and would figure how to sort it out. But I feel it’s also a great opportunity for us to explore this tendency to judge, to explore this tendency to presume to know what is going on.

…

If would give me great joy actually if you would say that ‘Practically, it’s an inconvenience and something here doesn’t like it’…, (I appreciate that, of course. It’s very natural not to like it), ‘and yet I send all my love and blessings to my brothers and sisters. And I don’t know what’s happening with them, to be honest…, but I send them all my love’.

But you know, I’m naive; you know that. [Chuckles] When the ‘trolls’ came into satsang…, there were those times when the ‘trolls’ started coming into satsang, and I wanted to share with them! [Chuckles] … Then everyone was saying…, [inaudible]. Then Priya sent me this video of ‘Don’t feed the trolls’. [Smiles] But something here moves with that naiveté. I recognize it. [Chuckles]

Q: So, I had some confusion come up recently and I need to, I feel called to, get it resolved. Let’s say you’re trying to figure out some practical issue, (and that’s not the only place where this came up), like whether I should quit my job and move on to do something else or something like that. I’m getting to the point where, I’m not sure, because there’s always two voices; one telling you to do one thing and one telling you to do another thing. And the inquiry doesn’t seem to work really well there because you don’t know which voice to trust. And then today too, like, I was going for a walk and suddenly this insight, (what felt like an insight), came that really ever since I started walking on this path, the only thing that I really can be sure of is that I don’t know anything. [Laughter]. But then I started wondering if this wasn’t …,

A: [Laughter]

Q: What was that sorry?

A: Are you sure you don’t know anything? Not even this you can be sure of. [Laughter]

Q: Right, right, that’s exactly right. And then I was like ‘Is this really an insight or is this my mind telling me that I don’t know anything?’ So that’s the question. I don’t know if there’s any voice in there that’s trustworthy anymore. [Laughter]

A: [Laughter] Yes. As long as it is not clear which voice is the Satguru voice or the intuitive voice, then drop both of them. If it is hard to distinguish which is the voice of my mind and which is the voice of my intuitive Presence, the Spirit, the Satguru, whatever word you want to call it, then it is better to drop all voices. Because your intuitive presence is not in a rush, it is not expecting an outcome right then. I know that the mind poses, (sometimes very effectively, in fact very authoritatively), as if it is your spiritual guide or your spiritual master. In fact, especially after you start coming to satsang, the mind will start taking the words of satsang and start saying that ‘This is what you must do. Now see, you’re believing your thoughts. You’re not supposed to believe your next thought’. The mind itself starts playing as if it is the teacher, you see.

Q: Yeah.

A: You’re completely right that there comes a time when it seems a bit indistinguishable between the voice of the mind and the voice of the Presence, the intuitive Presence. So it is best in those cases to drop both of them. Don’t go with any voice, don’t believe anything it is saying and just see that life continues to unfold in some way or the other.

And then what might happen is that as you stop believing any voice, you’ll find that this intuitive sense becomes stronger and stronger. But the funny thing about intuition is that as it gets stronger, our interest in trying to control our life in practical matters also reduces. [Chuckles] So, so I can’t actually imagine going to the Satguru within and saying ‘Father, what to do about my job?’ You see, that interest is not there.

Know that whatever is moving is happening through His will anyway, His grace anyway. And then you’ll find that as this intuitive voice becomes stronger, you’ll not be able to make use of it for anything seemingly personal. See that it’s here just so that it can share this Presence, share the words of satsang and point all those who come to your Presence to the truth of who you are and who they are, which is one.

So that’s a bit funny about this, that as this intuitive presence becomes clearer, more obvious, more natural, you’ll find that the interest in trying to control the movement of the flow of your life and seeking guidance about what your next step should be actually reduces. So, you find that…,

Ok, I’m going to share something very candidly with you. I know that without a doubt that this intuitive Presence knows the future. I know that without a doubt that this intuitive Presence knows the future and sometimes it gives you glimpses of it and things like this. But I cannot find it here ‘Please tell me what’s going to happen tomorrow. What’s going to happen about this?’ I just don’t have that. I find it very funny when I hear reports about, you know, people predicting. Saying ‘This is what the future will be like, this is what you must do’. Because here I just don’t have that sense. It sort of feels like the sanctity of the Presence here is broken if I go to it with some sort of personal request and personal ideas. And just this also, the personal fear about what’s going to happen here, (about money or relationships or the body); the sense of fear about it has gone. It does not seem like this concern about what is going to happen to this body, or to the mind, or to relationships is here.

So as you go through this handing over of power from the mind to the Presence, you’ll find that, we wish that we had a voice which could tell us what to do and what the future will be like; but when that presence becomes strong, that interest in wanting to know what to do and what the future looks like itself starts to diminish to a great extent.

Q: So, so until this intuition deepens like you’re saying, should we, practically…, would say that just going with any course of actions and just trusting God and just saying ‘Okay, this seems right’ and picking one and not getting caught too much in a mental space. Is that sort of what you would recommend?

A: Yes, yes, this is what I would say just to make it simpler for you. It is exactly what Bhagavan also said, which is that as long as you feel like that you have some choice, as long as you are still believing that you are the doer of your actions, then make the choice not go along with your thoughts. That is the only choice you have to make.

So, when I say ‘Don’t believe your next thought’…, actually it makes all of this quite simple. At least that’s how it seems here. I know that it’s been reported that it’s not that simple. [Laughter] But it feels here that as long as there is a sense that ‘I can do something, I have some choice’ then the only choice I have to make is to not believe what my thoughts are saying.

Everything else is moving on its own. And in this just letting go of the next thought, you’ll find that this concept of choice-making and doership itself starts to lose power. So all you have to do is not believe your next thought; no matter what the situation is, no matter what the world is expecting of from you, no matter what you don’t know…, whether you’re going to go into your job and say ‘I quit’ or ‘I’m going to stay for 10 years’. Guruji also shares this story isn’t it? Where his supervisor at the college or school came to him and said ‘You have to do this, you have to do this’. He just found his mouth moving saying ‘I quit. I can’t do this’. [Laughter] He was wondering ‘Where did that come from?’

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: So life always moves in the way it is meant to move. It is the presumed choice-maker, presumed decision-maker, which is false. And in believing our next thought, we take on the role of this presumed decision-maker, imagined decision-maker. But you’ll come to the discovery that there is no such thing! All of this world is actually one movement of Consciousness. The entire world is one movement of Consciousness.

There is also a law in physics that every time you change the energy level of one atom, the rest of the universe has to adjust itself energetically to that change of energy. So, every atom is interrelated, co-related. So, imagine that if you just warm up your hands a bit, you’re changing the edge of the universe and every atom between here and that. So, this physical realm is…, (even physicists are coming to similar conclusions as Advaitans actually, to say that) all of this is one energetic movement. Just like there is one ocean with seeming waves and when the wave is going up and crashing against the rock and things…, You say ‘There is no wave, there is only ocean. But ‘I am crashing against the rock. What do you mean there is no wave, only ocean?!” But the discovery comes that this is Oneness; the One Being, One Consciousness that is moving.

Q: There’s been a lot of contemplation happening around feelings in the body, feelings of separation. I’ve been like letting them be there, but I just wanted to look with you to make sure I’m actually doing the inquiry properly. Because I’ve got to be honest; I just come and sit, and your Presence engulfs me. And so that’s why transcribing is so good because I see what you’re saying. But can we just look together and…,

A: This is good. Before we do that, I want to tell everyone that if any of you ever feel like doing something, (like many times I get these messages about ‘Can I send you some money, a donation’, or something like this; we don’t need any of that)…, if you want to do something I feel that [you could] take on the transcribing of some satsangs. Because you will find that as you start transcribing…, many of you that have reported back ‘I didn’t hear what you were saying’. I think transcribing is the best seva. If you feel like doing something, some seva, I recommend that for yourself. Any of you, take on transcribing. And in the presence of satsang also, I feel it’s very beautiful seva.

So you said that there’s this sense of separation. [Inaudible] Now the sense of separation is the feeling of energetic sense. And what do you mean by separation?

Q: So it’s a feeling in the body, and then the thought ‘I’m located in the body; you’re over there, I’m over here’.

A: Yes, so let’s find the ‘I’ that’s located in the body. So this boundary of the body is dissolving and the other sensations are there, and where are you watching them from?

Q: [Silence] There’s this…, trying to look at the question but I can’t give an answer.

A: Mm, that’s good.

Q: The mind is still there.

A: Yes, but the mind which is thoughts, these words, which are sounds, the sensations in the body, the seeming boundary of the body, all of these…

Q: It’s like I…, sorry, sorry. Carry on.

A: Yes, go on.

Q: No, you carry on.

A: All of these; are they appearing in one space? Or they are separate spaces where all of these are experienced?

Q: It’s one space.

A: Just one space. In this space, what are the boundaries of this one?

Q: It’s like all the sensations and the mind are experienced in this space,

A: In this space, yes.

Q: And the body isn’t…, there’s still an outline but there’s no allocation to a ‘me’ being in this body,

A: Yes.

Q: And it’s like your voice is in this space which is everything, but still there’s this…, sorry, I’m feeling really dizzy.

A: It’s okay.

Q: There’s still this sensation…,

A: Yes. And this sensation, is it hurting this space in which it is appearing?

Q: No, but it’s a sensation, it’s like a driving force that’s pulling the attention back to the mind and what it’s saying. So there’s an awareness of the attention, and the attention is going to the mind and it’s chatter, and then that’s correlating to feeling, which is supposedly inside this body, which makes me feel allocated here, and your voice there, but I know it’s not true, so…

A: That’s exactly what we are saying; this primal urge to refer back to the mind. So let that also be. Because if we try to fight with our attention it gets very difficult. Just let it go to the mind, let it say whatever it wants to say, but you let it just come and go. And what’s your truest position?

Q: Aware of attention.

A: You know even of this space, isn’t it? Don’t try to understand it; just it’s much simpler than that. You know of the space? Or does the space know of you?

Q: I can’t say that I’m anything but it. But not, I don’t..,

A: Yes. Let’s look. This is very good. So you say ‘ I am the space’. These are Gods words, ‘I Am That I Am’, in which all appears and disappears. But is the Knowingness of this, (we know we are not talking about any concept with this), does the Awareness of this…, is that also to be found in this space?

Q: It is this; the mind is so strong saying ‘You can’t speak these words’. And the experience of what’s happening is that to put it into words is so much judgment going on about ‘You can’t say this’.

A: You expose everything the mind is saying.

Q: It’s just… ‘Everyone’s going to think you’re just making it up, everyone going to think you’re just saying what you’ve read, what you heard, what you think you’ve got to say’. The mind is saying all of this.

A: So, if everyone thinks that, so what?

Q: Yes.

Q: We don’t even care what our own thoughts are, how does it matter what others thoughts are? There’s some conditioning there around this…,

Q: Judgment.

A: ‘Everyone’ and ‘what we think of you’.

Q: It’s so funny how now I’ve just shrunk back into this personal role again, it’s like.

[Laughter]

A: Even now we are not the personal role, we are still the watching of all of this. That has not changed. That can be another mind trick where the mind says ‘See? You went back to the person again’. Did you go back to the person? Who is it that went back?

Being is just Being. In this one space of all phenomenal experiencing, all of this was there, and you know this. So whether it’s like this, [Shrinks into a ball] or like this, [Expands hands outwards] change is only within the being itself. It’s an appearance within the Being itself which didn’t expand or contract. The Knowing of it definitely didn’t change.

A: Can you locate yourself within this space?

Q: [Silence] Sorry, it’s just like…, [Sighs] it’s so true what I’m experiencing. But the moment I try to put it into words there’s it’s like this contraction into ‘Don’t say that, you can’t say that, it’s not for you to say’. And then there’s like this pull back into personal identity, and it’s like…,

A: It’s the conditioning of trying not to be arrogant itself.

Q: Yes, [Sighs] and it’s so beautiful, and then the mind comes and it’s just contraction. [Laughing] And I’m laughing now because it’s funny that this is happening, this play; but it’s annoying to be pulled back into this contraction.

A: And this is why it’s important that we don’t believe our thoughts, because even in all of this, nothing happened to Awareness. It remained unchanged, isn’t it? Therefore the whole point of satsang is to bring an end to this conditioning, which Consciousness itself is believing itself to be. So, because you have nourished this tree of ‘wanting to belong’ or ‘not seen as something special’, or ‘try to be humble’ or something like this, it’s like a remote control that pushes this arrogance button. The moment it pushes it, it’s over. What do you think will happen if you say something arrogant?

Q: Well, I think it’s probably because when I hear someone proclaiming to have seen the Truth, it’s just this taste, it’s like a bad taste, of just like, (and not all the time but when it’s not genuine), there’s just this this bad taste of  ‘What are you trying to prove? Just be quiet’. And although…,

A: So now you want to live up to that same expectation you set up for others.

Q: Yeah, because I know how annoying it is. It’s annoying when other people are not speaking…,

A: Even that is a good button to be pressed?

Q: Yeah.

A: What is it that annoys you if someone comes and proclaims that they’re Free, or Awareness? Is it not True what they say?

Q: It could be True.

A: [Laughter] Is it that that is less True, ever, than what is otherwise reported which is that ‘Oh I’m still the person, I’m still getting there’? Does the Truth become less True whether recognition is there or not? Because it can be the sense that the mind will want to attack and say ‘No, you haven’t got it. What are you saying?’ It can be like that, you see?

Q: I think what it is, is that the spiritual ego is so distasteful to Witness in others as well. It’s just like, I don’t know.

A: This is very good that you’re able to expose this because, I know it will come across as a bit harsh, but it is distasteful to what?

Q: The sense of person.

A: So what happens is that we can spot the color red and the color blue; but if the color red is distasteful then I must have some idea about it.

Q: Yeah, and it could only ever…, it could only ever be distasteful to a ‘me’…,

A: To the spiritual ego itself.

Q: Yeah. [Laughter]

A: I was leading up to soften the blow a bit. [Smiles] Because when we explore what is finding an expression, (even if it is fake), that is coming in another, why is it not being treated as another part of the play? Why are we finding so much distaste in it?

Q: Are these buttons just going to be carrying on? [Laughter] The more I get rid of, the more comes up. And the only option is to just not identify. But then things are bought up that there’s no…, I’m identified before you can snap your fingers.

A: It’s not so bad actually, because we have taken a lot of time and belief and effort to create all this, to plant all these trees.

Q: Yeah.

A: And it can seem like ‘Oh the planting took maybe millions of years but the uprooting should happen snap, snap’.

That’s why I say it’s very important to get rid of the misconception that the recognition of the Truth is the end of the so called spiritual journey.

Because many of you, all of you mostly, have come to this recognition. So when now, in a minute when you check, it’s clear to you that ‘I am this Awareness’. And yet there’s still power in these ideas. Because to Awareness, nothing was distasteful; to Being also it is not distasteful. And it is great Grace that these things get exposed so then we can look at them, check on them then throw them away.

The point is not to interpret this in any way except in the way it is meant. So the only purpose of my pointing this out is to see ‘Okay, this one’s still there’. Okay’. [Gesture of throwing away] But many times what happens is that we start interpreting it, then we say ‘Oh this is still there. What else is there?’ We add on more conditioning and then it becomes complicated. So I’m taking out and you’re adding more. So this is one of the basic tricks of the mind: ‘Will this finish? There’s so much…, I don’t…’  [Chuckles]

Q: Just such a huge thank you for just pointing that, after the realization. Even then the mind says ‘Don’t say that, don’t admit that you’ve….’  Wahh! God, sorry, it’s so strong.

A: Actually, usually when we find something else is being projected outward in another, it is our own self-doubt, our own fear of being fake. If we don’t have that fear at all, (of being arrogant or fake or whatever), then you will not be able to judge another in that way.

Q: But, yeah, what I’m trying to say is just thank you because there was such spiritual belief, conditioning around ‘Once you’ve had that realization, then that’s it’. I don’t know why, no one told me this. It was such a belief that was so strongly believed.

A: Actually, it’s very prevalent in many spiritual paths that the recognition of who we are is the end game. But when we check, we see that ‘Yes, moments of recognition can be there’. But I am not saying that always it comes to the end of conditioning [just] because a moment of recognition is there.

Q: It just feels like, before, I couldn’t come and express these personal trigger points that were still lurking inside for fear of ‘Oh no, I’ve got It wrong. I’ve got to sit here and you know only abide, otherwise I’m doing something wrong’. There was this fear to expose that there is still conditioning.

A: And what happens is we get very attached to our recognition and then we want to defend it.

Q: Yeah, yes.

A: So what happens is that we don’t want to share what’s happening, (not you; I’m speaking generally), we don’t want to share what’s happening because ‘I hope he doesn’t start talking’. So if I’m exposing then it feels like ‘Oh, there’s a fear that this, this which is so clear, should not be doubted. But even that fear is just the spiritual ego trying to hang on to that recognition. But I have to say from here that for me actually, a moment of recognition is not a big deal. And I feel that for many of you, if we sit in inquiry together, you will see this. It is very, very natural. This ‘surgery’ for me is more important.

Because what happens if this ‘surgery’ is not done then something gets stronger and stronger; attached to our moments of recognition, and wants to then create a framework of thoughts around this itself. You see? But you yourself are spotting that there’s so much specialness and judgment which can be used to create this, all these spiritual concepts. So that’s why it is very important to remain in satang; maybe for quite some time after many moments of recognition also.

So it’s a fallacy that ‘Okay I had an awakening experience, I’m done, bye-bye. Where are my followers?’ It can seem [that way]. [Laughter] And there’s no common template for how long it should take.

Q: Yeah.

A: To see that even the sense of ‘It should be over now, it should be over now. Why doesn’t it get over?’ It’s still coming from the mind.

[Silence]

A: So, the best trick for avoidance of the spiritual ego is, actually, if you find yourself closed in any interaction, if you find yourself hanging onto a particular perspective or point of view, then know that you’re hanging onto a conceptual framework of spirituality. Because God does not need the concepts to be expressed only in a particular way. Awareness is completely unconcerned with any of this, you see. So, this is really very important ICU time, because these moments of awakening, these moments of recognition of who we are, are very fertile ground for your True flowering and allowing this body/mind to just become an instrument of God; but can also become a fertile time for the mind to create some strong spiritual position.

So, I would even say that even much more important than coming to satsang, even before awakening experiences, is to come for some time after the awakening experience. And we see that here. I hardly ever give any value to awakening experiences; there’s no sense of validation which comes from here which says ‘Yeah’. You know? [Laughter] In my heart I recognize it. Of course I do. But I know that that validation, that certification, can then become another fertile ground for the ego.

So what to do?  Don’t believe your next thought.

Q: Yeah.

A: The mind also wants to come up with a master plan for the end of the spiritual ego. The plan is just this: you recognize so clearly yourself, this very primal seeming-urge to go back to our thoughts, the fear of the dropping of the individuality. That is what satsang is for.

Once we see that all these thoughts are allowed to come and go then we can report that ‘To Awareness, nothing happened.  Identification, billions of lifetimes of suffering; it means nothing.

Q: Thank you.

Ananta: So Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] and [Nisargadatta] Maharaj both have used this term ‘The I-thought’.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: So actually, instead of using the term ‘I thought’ I feel it is easier to use ‘I Am Presence’ which also Maharaj uses very often. So, that’s why if I asked you ‘Can you stop being now?’…, can you stop being?

Q: No, I can’t. No.

A: You can’t stop being?

Q: No.

A: [Laughing] Why not? Just for a minute, you can do it?

Q: No I can’t. I’m like always there.

A: Yes, okay, very good.

So, if this Being can’t be stopped, what is it that cannot be stopped? This Being. Which meant what? Why can’t you stop Being? Because you experience your own Presence, isn’t it?

Q: Yes, yes.

A: So this Presence is the root of all other thoughts, you see? So, this is the sense ‘I Am’ on which ‘I am this, I am that, I am man, I am spiritual seeker, I’m smoker, I’m not a smoker; all this can be attached to this sense ‘I Am’…

Q: Yes.

A: You see? But who is aware of this sense also; this Presence?

Q: Me…, obviously me.

A: Yes. So this ‘I’…, this me that is aware even of this Presence, what does that one look like? What are the attributes of this one?

Q: Right now I can only…, like you know when someone asks me this question I can only feel silence. And I know if I try to give answers, before, but like whatever answer I give, it is not true. That’s for certain.

A: Yes. So don’t worry about the answer so much. I am more concerned about the looking. Who is aware of this Presence?

Q: I exactly don’t know who is aware or what is aware but I know that there is awareness.

A: Very good. How do you know this?

This is actually the final question I can ask you.

You say ‘I know of awareness’. How do you know of awareness?

Q: It’s just awareness which is always there …, since…

A: Is there an awareness and a ‘me’?

Is there a ‘you’ and ‘an awareness which belongs to you’? Is there a ‘you’ which is separate from this awareness?

Q: No, no.

A: So what you’re saying is that you are aware and the ‘I’ that is aware is Awareness Itself. Right or wrong?

Q: Yeah.

A: You see? So, let me make it again simpler for you. Are you aware now?

Q: Yes.

A: Yes, so ‘This’ that is aware, is it separate from Awareness?

Q: No.

A: Now, what did you want when you said…

Q: I said…, I asked ‘How can I witness this ‘I thought’? Because always…

A: But now we’ve gone beyond that.

Q: No. no, [Laughing] I don’t know if I’ve gone beyond. But what exactly is the practice of self-enquiry? And everything that I do; things which I emphasise the most? And one is being aware of this ‘I’ feeling, you know; this ‘I Am’ feeling all the time. And the other one is surrender. So, these two things are the only doubts which I have right now, in a sense. Like when I do my practice, I do it but I don’t know if I’m doing it right or not. Like for example I ask ‘Who is talking right now?’ I can see a gap which is appearing in the mind. Okay, mind cannot really answer the question ‘Who am I?’ I feel it’s like a trap. The question itself, I feel like a trap sometimes.

A: Yes!

Q: You know, there is this gap in between….

A: It’s a mind-bypass actually. Not just a trap. The question is one of the rare questions which takes you beyond the mind because the mind has no hope of answering this question. You see? So when we did the enquiry together just now, you say that ‘I am this Awareness which is aware even of Presence or I Am’. Now speak from there. What doubt remains for That One?

Q: I can only experience silence when you ask that.

A: Yes. And this ‘I’ is which one? You keep picking up this ‘I’, which is which one?

Q: I don’t know.

A: You see? So, don’t pick this one up. It’s just an idea.

It’s not even imagination because you don’t even have an imagination of this ‘I’. It’s just a presumption, you see. There’s a presumed ‘I’ which means actually in reality it does not exist. The reality of what you are you’re able to inquire into and you see ‘I am this Awareness’. Is there anybody else here? Is there a Neel which wants freedom? A Neel which is trying to use inquiry or trying to use awareness for some personal benefit? Does this Neel actually exist?

Q: I don’t know what to say.

A: [Laughing] It’s not again about what you report. These questions are just to provoke you into looking for yourself. You see?

Q: But Anantaji, I just want to ask…, when we are, for example, when we’re really practicing it, what happens is we really don’t have such gurus like Ramanaji, Ramana Maharshi understood. Now they show ‘Okay, fine. If you practice, you’re doing on the right path’. Okay?

A: Yes.

Q: What all we have right now is we have this set of ideas which is philosophy-feeling, intellectually, (whatever it is) which I trampled for a very long time and I let all of them go [inaudible] and there is something which is called like the method or the practice which we talk about that is holding onto this ‘I Am’…, like in just say ‘I, I, I, I’ and then point to the thought. So, what happens is as philosophical theories and everything, I’m looking for the ‘I’. You know? If I’m practicing; for example like I’m looking for a method for someone to say ‘Okay, fine’. ‘Okay, Barry, whatever you are doing is right’. It’s like ‘Okay fine, okay. You are actually holding the ‘I’ thought right now’. Because as long I practice, there are extreme like states of bliss and everything, I completely agree. But I don’t really know if I’m doing the right thing…, if I’m really…, I don’t know if actually I am giving attention to this ‘I am thought’ or some other stupid thought which arises in mind, which I am thinking as it is ‘I Am’.

A: Yes, so let me ask you a question which is going to be the most important one in this interaction: Do you want to be free or you want the right practice?

Q: I want the right practice so that I can be free.

A: But if I was to say that you can be free now and then you’re free to practice whatever you want, does that sound good or bad?

Q: It sounds better.

A: [Laughing] Then listen to what I am saying very carefully.

Q: Yes.

A: Because what happens in satsang is that everyone comes with a check list of what they want. You see? So someone says ‘I want peace, I want joy, I want bliss’. You come saying ‘I want to have the right practice so I can be free’.

What I want to tell you is that it’s not about what you think you want. You say ‘I want practice’. Others say ‘I want joy, I want freedom, I want bliss’. I don’t have any of these things to give you but I can help you look for who is this ‘I’. You see?

Q: Yes.

A: This ‘I’. We can find it now. The end of all this trouble. Otherwise you can be a great practitioner; for the next fifty years you can practice, you see. It doesn’t help. The whole point of all practice is to bring you to the recognition of who you are. So if you need to find who this ‘I’ is, the ‘I’ must be here now, isn’t it?

Q: Yes.

A: Why must I have to practice for ten years before I can find the ‘I’? If the ‘I’ comes after practice then it cannot be the Truth because the Truth must always be here. If the Self is real, if the Truth is true then must it not be here now?

Q: Yes, it has to be.

A: So don’t believe any idea that you cannot find it now.

Q: Okay.

A: Don’t even rely on any joy, bliss; all of these are by-products. They’re in service to your Being. You’re not to chase them, you see. So if the Truth is here; if the ‘I’ is real then it must be here now. That is why we ask the question ‘Who am I?’

Now don’t worry about what the mind’s answer is. You find out who is witnessing; never mind the mind’s answer ‘Who is witnessing your own Presence?’ That’s why I asked you ‘Can you stop being?’ You say ‘No, being is here. I am aware of it’. Then I said ‘Who is this ‘I’? Is it separate from Awareness?’

Now were you answering from memory or a mental idea? Or were you checking and answering?

Q: No, no I’m telling about my own…, from my own experience what I’m telling is. I mean…

A: Tell me from what you see now.

Who is this ‘I’ right now?

[Silence]

Q: It’s just the Awareness.

A: Just Awareness. Is this Awareness free or bound?

Q: It…it’s free.

A: Now try to become the person. Try to become Neel and show me. [Laughs]

A: This Awareness; convert it to a person; make a person out of it. Can you do it?

Q: No, I can’t.

A: Can’t do it. Then if that one that wants freedom cannot even be born then what’s the trouble now?

Q: Nothing.

A: You see? So, if you recognise that ‘I am this Awareness’ then this is the recognition of the Self.

And I was saying earlier that it is not necessarily that those who’ve had this recognition of the Self end up free from their conditioning. So, for this ‘end of freedom from this conditioning’

I will give you a practice. [Laughter]

Q: Yeah.

A: The practice is very simple: Don’t believe your next thought.

Q: That’s your last sentence? My next thought is now your last sentence.

[Laughter] [Silence] I get that.

A: You see, because when you check you find ‘I am this Awareness’. I cannot become Neel. Even in the appearance of this body and this life of this body, I cannot find a ‘me’. Because this body doesn’t want freedom. The one that wants freedom, I cannot find. Therefore this non-existent one seems to have a representative which is our mind; which is our thoughts, you see? But I recognize that ‘I am not this one. I am Awareness’. So why must I believe this representative of the non-existent one?

Now what happens is that there are two forces which work on these thoughts. One is the force of attention, the second is the force of belief. All practices are trying to get attention under control, you see; be it mindfulness, be it trying to stay with the sense ‘I Am’ …, everything is trying to control our attention. But attention is a very naughty monkey; the more we try to control it, the more it wants to run, you see?

Q: Yes.

A: The ego identification, identification with the false, is not possible just with our attention. We also need to give it our belief.

Q: Pardon me, please repeat it.

A: Yes. Identification, or to pretend to be the ego, is not possible just by giving attention. We also need to give it our belief.

Q: Okay.

A: Without believing your thought you cannot pretend to be Neel. If you want to see God pretending to be a person, believe your next thought. That’s all you have to do. You see? So, all we have to do to be free from conditioning is to not believe our next thought. Because a recognition of the Self because of our simple self-inquiry has already happened; and can happen anytime we check ‘Who am I?’ You See that ‘I am this Awareness’.

Therefore the only thing needed, as Bhagavan said ‘If you still feel like you have a choice, (like if you feel you have a choice to do some practice), then make a choice not to go with your thoughts’. It’s what Bhagavan said, you see. Now what I found with this is that many would come back and say that ‘I’m so frustrated because I let go of some thoughts but I still buy some other thoughts. It’s so troublesome’.

So I made it even simpler. I said: Just don’t believe your next thought.

It is enough because the tree of conditioning cannot function without you pulling at the branch of the next thought.

Q: So just…, I have to just stop believing whatever the thought is.

A: Yes. Allow them to come and go. Don’t resist them. Just like the Zen Master said ‘Through one door let them come, through another door let them go. You don’t serve them tea’.

Q: Okay. Yeah so, just I want to ask you this last one thing, is that the one who is observing these thoughts? Is that the ‘I thought’?

A: You can say like that; that the witness; the phenomenal. Okay, let me try to put it simpler. The one that tastes a fruit and perceives the taste of the fruit is the same one that perceives the thoughts. So all phenomenal perceiving is happening through our Presence.

Awareness knows of this perceiving, but it is not even phenomenally perceiving; it is just Aware. All phenomenal functioning, including phenomenal perceiving, is a functioning of our Being or that which we call the primal ‘I thought’…, ‘I am-ness’ or the ‘I-Om’,  whatever you call it, whatever label you use for it.

Q: Okay.

A: I usually don’t use the term ‘I-thought’ because it ends up confusing many.

It’s much easier to say ‘I Am Presence’ or as Bhagavan used to say “I-I”. The ‘I-I’ is the ‘I am Presence’, and… [Ananta’s daughter appears to ask Ananta something and then leaves.]

This is another appearance!

You see? So this ‘I Am Presence’ has also been referred to as the primal ‘I thought’ which is the route of all other ‘I’ conditioning. When we attach things to ‘I Am-ness’ then that becomes conditioning, you see.

Q: Thank you, Anantaji. Thanks a lot.

A: You’re very welcome.

Q: It’s been wonderful talking to you.

A: Thank you.

Q: Thank you.

We are here, right now. That’s it, actually.  [Laughs] When we look at this, just See: Here I Am.

Don’t go with the interpretive mind. Don’t interpret these words and fit them in to your conceptual framework. If it’s easier for you, then just know that I’m not speaking the truth. Just know that it’s just some gibberish and just hear it like that. But hear it. And see where it is pointing, if anywhere at all. The minute I say something like ‘I Am’…, mind is trying to put some evaluation even in this. We don’t need that.

How do you know that You Are? Do you need a thought to Know that You Are? Do you need an emotion or a sensation to Know that You Are? To Know of your existence has been prior to thought. Before the next thought comes, You Are. And this attention that is going on objects, is it reporting back to You? Or to something else?

So, this, we’ve become too enamored with what our attention is bringing back to us, without looking at who the ‘I’ is; to whom the attention is bringing back content. Because instantly the mind comes and says ‘Oh, that is nothing. I don’t find anything’. Do you realize how funny that is? ‘In checking for the ‘I’, I don’t find anything’. Checking for the ‘I’…, I don’t find anything. So who doesn’t find anything?

So, we expect the ‘I’ to be an appearance; we expect the Self to be an appearance. That is why we run around looking for the Self. Otherwise how can it be that we say ‘I’ve been searching for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 50 years, and I still don’t find the Self’.  ‘I… don’t find the Self’. So which one is this one that doesn’t find the Self? You see? So there is an idea of ‘I’ and an idea that the Self will be some sort of an appearance. But Who are You in reality that lost the ‘I’ and now wants to find the ‘I’? If you’re looking for the Self, you must have lost it, isn’t it?

Why are we looking for the Self? Just check. What are we looking for? [Silence] Who is it that’s looking? Is not this one the constant, the eternal, already? So that which we cannot lose…, to that we have giving much value. And that which seemingly we cannot find, seems to get all the meaning. What does this mean? The one that our mind represents, that one we cannot find. But that gets all our meaning. ‘I must be that, because this voice is speaking as if it is must be that. Thoughts are representing that, so I must be that’. So tomorrow you start getting somebody else’s thoughts; then will you become that one? Who are you before your thoughts? Do you cease to exist? Then you will never be able to report that there is some space between thoughts, because you will not be there to be aware of this space. So now you can check. The thought comes, the thought goes. Before the next thought comes, there is a space. But you still exist. You are aware of the space between two thoughts, in the same way that you’re aware of all appearances coming and going.

Don’t play with what your mind is reporting about this. It’s complete nonsense; nobody’s interested in it. So just check. What I’m saying is that everything is appearing and disappearing; but are you also appearing and disappearing. These thoughts, our emotions; happiness comes, sadness comes, joy comes, grief comes, bliss come, regret comes. All of these are coming and going. Pain comes, pleasure comes, pleasure goes. In the outside world, relationships come, relationships go. Who is it that remains? Who is it that remains?

So if we keep confusing ourselves to be the victim of these appearances without really checking…, if we want to play the presumed victim, then nobody can stop us. Who am I to stop anyone anyway? I can only speak from what has been seen here. It has been seen here that all of these appearances are coming and going. Yet there is I that remains. You know of the coming and going of all appearances. You don’t need your thoughts to witness these comings and goings. Who is this one? And if we stay with this, this looking, without clutching for any concept about it; even if the concepts from the mind are coming, if we allow them to just come and go, then the recognition is Here Now.

The Self that we’re looking for never left. It cannot leave. Because how would the Self leave the Self? How would the Self leave the Self? Then, (like we were saying on Facebook the other day), then, who got left behind to go and look for it? Who is looking for the Self? If the Self left, and the Self has to be found, then who is to do this finding? That’s why the term Self-Recognition; to recognize what is Here Now.

Without any crutches, without the support of any thought, without being concerned with any energetic movement. Don’t sell yourself short. Don’t presume it is about anything else except the question ‘Who am I?’ All that we say in satsang is just to go to this moment of checking, of looking and of recognizing who You Are. And the only seeming distraction are our own thoughts. No appearance, no emotion, no sensation. Not even the appearance of thoughts can distract us; it’s only our identification with them, our belief in them.

Maybe one day there will come a time where everyone will wonder ‘How is it, in this world, 2016, everyone used to believe themselves to be that which never existed?’ Maybe. And to see that everything I can believe is not Me. Anything that I can believe is not the reality of ‘I’ because ‘I’ doesn’t need any concept. The core of the idea about this is the playing as avoidance of the truth. We make a conclusion about this, completely premature.

If there are some thoughts that seem to get you over and over again, then you don’t let them hide. I’ve suggested to all of you in satsang, you get a notebook, you write down the top thoughts; top 10, top 3, whatever the number is. Write them down. Because sometimes I meet some of you and for years you’ve carried the same beliefs. Know that whatever you are believing is not true; not necessarily because it is not appearing like that but because that which you’re presuming yourself to be when you’re believing a thought, does not exist.

So I feel like becoming a bit of a school master in this. I want all of you to get a notebook. And you write down: top 3. Really getting to it. Inquire into your beliefs, say ‘Who’s is this?’ If it’s about relationships, if it’s about freedom, if it’s about body; whatever it may be about. Inquire into it. And you also know the seemingly-most popular infliction now in the sangha is ‘the narrator, the interpreter’. So, because it has been inquired into about the body, it has been inquired into about relationships and money and freedom, then the mind is falling back upon just constant commentary. ‘This is happening, this is happening; it’s not happening; it’s happening like this; I’m going through this, I’m not going through this; this is happening to me’. You see? If it is happening to you, then you don’t need the mind to report it. It’s already happening. You know it, isn’t it?

So, what I’ve been calling ‘the checker guy’ has become like a big infection; maybe it’s contagious or something. [Chuckles] Just let it go. You don’t need this checker to check. And the same checker then plays the narrator or the reporter. Who is this one who is that checking? Who is the one that is reporting? On who?

Then we can see that neither the progress we’re making for freedom nor the state of relationships in this life nor the concerns of our financial security and the state of the body; none of these we need the input from this mind. Neither the practical nor the truth; we don’t need this mind for anything. As long as we keep using this mind, then you keep pretending to be this mere person of flesh and bones. God doesn’t need these thoughts. So this narrator, this checker, this reporter, who needs it? Nobody.

And the mind, you know, it hides. It hides behind our specialness, our arrogance. So shine your light on it, with full integrity. Expose to yourself, at least, what are the lies that you still presume about yourself? And as you keep looking at these, as you keep inquiring into them…, the idea is not to go to psychotherapy with them. The idea is to expose them and throw them away; expose them and throw them away. I feel that you’ve been in satsang now long enough to just discard. And then you will find that this idea of person seems to get more and more transparent. There will come a point very fast where you will not be able to find any attributes which you can say truly about yourself.

Especially throw away all your spiritual concepts. They are also a burden. And then when all spiritual concepts are also thrown, very naturally Spirit itself will use your body, your mouth, your hands, of Its own expression. It is not the spiritual concepts which will make you spiritual, but they will only make you the spiritual ego. And as you allow them to go, you will that only Presence is functioning in this realm. [Silence]

So true self-exploration then will just be about exploring that which is false, and throwing it away. The finding of the truth, therefore, must only be the dropping of belief from the false. Because, you see, the truth, by definition, is not coming and going.

Have no patience with the mind now. Finished! Finished! Enough stories, enough ideas. Don’t pick it up. If an angel from heaven comes and tells you ‘Pick up your next thought’ don’t pick it up. [Laughs] Whatever it might be saying, don’t pick it up. That’s it! Right now. Don’t even pick up the thought ‘I am going to do this’. We’re not going to make any spiritual progress; this is not about progress.

If the truth were like this, you know…, [lots of noise and interference as someone coming into satsang hangout left their mic on]

If we keep going like this, half-satsang, half-mind, then it could be 10 years that we are like this; watching on hangout, You Tube. And then after 10 years, what will you say? ‘Ananta was such a useless teacher’. [Chuckles] ‘I’ve been there for 10 years, and still I’m there’. I’m just trying to provoke you out of some lair that you seem to get into. [Silence]

The mind will continue to interpret your experiences. And let it go about doing whatever it wants. If you find that you picked up something, then throw it away. If you say ‘I can’t throw it away’ then you write it down. But don’t let it hide. Don’t let it linger. That is why it is waiting for the right opportunity to come up and get you again. You see that at least to be able to say ‘I see you trying to play this trick with me’ goes a long way in the dropping of this conditioning. And the trick will be only about one of these 4 or 5 topics; it doesn’t have anything fresh.

In fact, I feel that for most of you that have been in satsang for long, if you’re coming with a question, if you’re coming with a report, then also I want to hear from you first ‘What did you find in your own contemplation about it?’ Because we must come to a point where we are breaking out of this Arjuna our mind-set, the seeker mind-set and seeing ourself the embodiment of this [Inaudible] One. It is not arrogant. To say that I am separate is arrogant. Then let’s see what still gets your belief.

After carrying the intention to let everything come and go, after exposing it in Your own Light, after inquiring into it, if something still gets your belief, then burn it here in satsang.

What are you still believing about yourself?

It is natural for the mind to be reacting in this way. You say that it’s creating a lot of restlessness. All kinds of doubts will come, all kinds of things will come. It will say ‘I Am’ is also like this; ‘I Am’ is also an illusion. Yes, but from which perspective? Not from the perspective of the one who says this. From the perspective of the mind, the ‘I Am’ is all there is. It is the father from which this mind comes from. So this ‘son of the barren woman’ will not truly be reporting this to ‘you’ except as some intellectual knowledge.

So if you See, the denial of existence comes from two perspectives. One is an intellectual perspective which is ‘I know I don’t exist because I have had those moments of recognition’. But it is not coming from the Right Now. So if you’re having to rely on some past moments of recognition to report that ‘I don’t exist’ then it’s better we forget about it.

See if you exist now. And then we will come back to that same place of clarity. You will see that the sense of existence also is Seen. And that which can See this, is unaffected by this. And because it is unaffected by this, from that perspective we can say that this ‘I Am’ is not real because I am untouched by it.

Don’t let the mind come and become the Advaita teacher because its only job is to confuse you and distract you. In this moment, I know that you can check and See that all of this is not really confusing you at all. The reality of You, (you say yourself even), is unaffected by the Presence of Consciousness.

So, let the mind do its dance. Let it jump around, throw all the tantrums it wants. You remain as you are. In fact, you always remain as you are, and you know it.

So I refuse to believe you when you say you are very confused because I know that you’ve had moments of great clarity. And right now, if you chose to See instead of buying these thoughts, you’ll see that you’re free from this confusion anyway.

Q: You just picked up on something that’s been happening here as well and things like this. I feel like this one’s game of transcendence is huge identification with looks. I can already feel all this energy… [Exhales]

A: So, for this identity, what is the nightmare scenario?

Q: I feel like it’s already been played out.

A: I see. [Chuckles]

Q: This is going to sound terribly arrogant, (even though it wasn’t believed at the time), but looking back at pictures this physical form used to be very pretty and attractive and was in an industry where it was all to do with looks. Yeah, extreme self-hatred was going on at the same time so it’s such a paradox. But then, after being at Sahaja there was all this complete disassociation with the body; covering all the mirrors and completely just ‘Letting myself go’. I cleared out that fear of being unattractive and saying that ‘I’m really fat’. But now recently there’s this coming back into accepting the body. But still there’s this…, still there’s this thing about…, because even you’re doing your exercise thing and…,

A: Yes. Supposedly. [Laughter]

Q: It looks like it.

A: That’s good [Laughter].

Q: That must come from something inside saying ‘I want to get fit’ or ‘I want to…’ And it’s just here. I don’t know how to describe it, Father, it’s just, I really don’t know, but I just feel like it’s just such a strong ‘yuck’.

A: I’m very happy that you say that ‘There is more acceptance of the body, but not acceptance that I am the body’. Then we are seeing more and more that ‘I cannot be this body’ then there can be also an acceptance of this body. So very often I take the example of the car; that now I am not the car but it’s a beautiful instrument, so why not to maintain it?

It is body association, the idea that I am the body, which leads to ideas like ‘If I am free now then I should not have to maintain this body’ or ‘This body is not…’ It is saying ‘I am not the body’ but there is still some smell of feeling like I’m the body.

So as you’re now recognizing so clearly that ‘I cannot be this body and this body is just this harmless instrument, just sitting about not doing anything, so, so innocent’. If the sense is coming to see the contours of the body and to say ‘Okay, I better go for a walk’ there’s nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t lead to the identification that ‘I am the body’. It more feels like this gift that has been presented to me seems to be getting out of shape so maybe it’s good if it runs about for a bit. There’s more lightness about it, there’s no sense of guilt saying ‘Oh, I haven’t gone for a walk for many days’. So it’s more like ‘Oh, I have to wash my car. Today I was a bit lazy to wash it. Okay, tomorrow’. It’s more like that. [Inaudible].

So keep going as you are, the recognition of who You are, then also in the sense of neutrality what needs to happen to care for, or not care for, this body will happen on its own. The minute we start activating the one who is trying to figure out how to take care of this body then we are again activating the false.

Q: I think it comes up as, like…, it’s this fear of judgment from others which is so ridiculous. But it’s coming up and it’s so funny because I can see it happening. [Inaudible] Sorry I don’t know why I’m speaking…

A: No, it’s okay.

Q: I feel like I’m not judgmental about other people’s bodies, in fact I love natural bodies, just my whole life I’ve been bombarded with LA type [Los Angles]…,

A: LA type means all very…, you mean made up?

Q: Yeah, made up, very glamorous, that whole lifestyle was where I was. But there’s acceptance of how others are but still not for this form; I’m identified, this character. I was saying the other day that actually this is an amazing transcendent game of it; to accept this body, but it feels really in the thick of it.

A: Because it is most likely you will find a time where all this conditioning was being gobbled up, either from the environment you were in or what our own mind was saying, where it came from. It must have been, (sometimes you can say it is), past life conditioning also but mostly what I find is that even in this lifetime, if we look back we will find that this was eaten up, you see? Like Tiramisu or something, just eating up this conditioning about looking a certain way, projecting a certain way, talking a certain way, dressing ourselves up a certain way. So all of this must have been gobbled up at some time.

So now when it appears on the conveyor-belt it can come with all that again, isn’t it? Something appears, something triggers it and just like this. What to do about it? Just nothing, just the same way; allow it to come and go and you will find that as you’re not even engaging in…, you’re just, ‘It’s nothing’. ‘It’s not my problem, it’s Father problem’. That’s the simple way to do it, to say ‘It’s my Fathers problem’.

The difficult way, or the seemingly more difficult way to do it is to bring it [Inaudible] to be perceived in this way. Find the one who doesn’t want to be seen as ugly or fat or whatever. And in either we are dropping this fresh conditioning and that which is old conditioning cannot survive forever without this additional nutrition of fresh conditioning.

So what is the thought that still can get you? Let’s expose that as a first step.

Q: You’re fat.

A: Okay, so ‘You’ll become so fat’.

Q: No, no ‘You are fat’,

[Laughter]

A: So, watch it now, it’s coming, this thought is coming, ‘You’re fat, you’re fat’. What’s happening?

Q: Right now there isn’t anything; it has no bite to it, there’s no thought, there’s no emotion attached to the thought.

A: Because it’s not the right opportunity for the mind to play this card,

Q: Yeah.

A: It’s in satsang, it’s here; there’s nowhere for this to land. But it will keep waiting for the right time. It’s just like gorilla warfare, sometimes the mind is like that. When it knows that it’s losing the battle, one on one confrontational battle, then it just goes and hides. Guerilla warfare; just wait for the right opportunity to come then it starts shooting up. It’s just like this, you see.

But here some faith, some devotion can come and say ‘So much has been dissolved, so much has gone. Even this is my Fathers problem to take away’.

Q: It’s just come now, can we look together?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: So, it’s of a memory. Okay, so there will be a feeling in the body that’s like a rising up towards the face and then then mind will say ‘That it is a feeling of disgust’.

A: So a feeling in the body and the mind is interpreting it, interpreting it as disgust. And then?

Q: Then more thoughts like…, It’s just the mind…

A: Saying that ‘You’re so fat’.

Q: ‘You shouldn’t eat so much, this is your nemesis, you’re never going to get over this one. Why don’t you just starve yourself again’.

A: These sound like old friends.

Q: Yeah, not old friends but old…,

A: Ones that were believed. Let me have all of them. [Silence] If you were fat, ugly and free would that be okay? Or not?

Q: That would be great.

A: Then what’s the problem?

Q: I think, Father, also what it is, is just that this one’s life has been so involved around what it looked like that now there’s not that element so much and its feels…,

A: What you were in the movies or what?

Q: No, just modelling.

A: Ah, right.

Q: But even before I was, there was always this drive to look good. So I feel like now that that’s not in this life, it’s a loss of identity as well and think that that’s….

A: So the model has gone but she’s still getting postcards from her friends ‘Okay all this is fine but just make sure you’re not eating more than you should’ or something?

Q: Sorry, Father.

A: It’s okay.

Q: It’s just, this is such a huge chunk of the identity; it’s just ridiculous. And there’s always been manipulation or seeming-manipulation of the body in order to push away the feelings of disgust or…,

A: So you said it was coming now. Still there? Or has it gone?

Q: What?

A: This feeling of disgust. Just see if you can not push it away when it comes, see what it looks like. It’s rather fun actually. It might sound a little trivial but what happens when an illness comes, a disease comes in the body, these feelings of disgust, regret or hate, any of these feelings, (at least I find that) it’s a beautiful, fun experiment to see that when sickness comes in this body, just to see this darkish sensation pulsating here. Just trying to make room, just to watch the play of that, there’s great wonder here about those things.

There’s no sense about being closed to any feeling. If sickness has to come, let it come. I enjoy watching it. If pain has to come, let it come. There will be some joy even in the ouch. Any of this. And as we allow this, then we find that it loses its power over us.

All this self-image, conditioning that ‘Oh, you’re being so disgusting’ and ‘You should be another way’ is a voice that you believed in the past so now it tries to play up again just to retain the sense of personal ‘I’. But just allow all of this to happen. Don’t say that ‘I should be over this by now. Why isn’t it done for me yet?’ And one day you yourself will come and say that ‘It is nothing, the mind was making a mountain out of a mole hill’.

[Silence]

You are That to which these bodies are coming and going within a blink of an eye lid. Millions of bodies you have experienced and millions more will be there for you when you want to experience them.

[Silence]

What is the time when you felt most disgusted with yourself?

Q: I’m just remembering back to the time when I was like sixteen and just so miserable and starving the body so much, and so much self-hatred and I thought it was all about how skinny I could be, and that was the minds game. ‘The skinnier you will get be the happier you will be’.

A: Now look at that sixteen year old, and was there anything disgusting about her?

Q: Just this mind.

A: Just this mind. Actually the mind is not even so disgusting, it’s just a comedian you have taken very seriously.

Q: Father, I think what makes it so painful is after experiencing this body as just pure love, and then to be suddenly feeling those feelings of disgust again towards it. It’s just such a contrast to know who I really am but to be feeling just totally the opposite. It’s like there’s no access to my Truth, there’s no access to that even though I know it’s there.

A: Okay, so is the feeling of love what You are?

Q: No.

A: So, if that which you are is neutral to whatever feeling is arising, then is the idea that ‘I’m experiencing the opposite of what I am really am’…, can that ever be True? If you are neither the feeling of love, neither the feeling of disgust, You are just that attribute-less Awareness, then does it matter which feeling is coming and going.

So the mind is using these things as bench marks to say ‘Oh, just now you’re experiencing so much love; why is this disgust back? You must be falling back into something’. Actually all of this must come up so it can be released. You see? Although I say very simply there is great power in saying ‘It is going’ rather than ‘It is coming’. It is not that the feeling of disgust is coming, it is that the feeling of disgust is going. Anyway, whatever the feeling is, how does it matter to you? So in this, maybe what is revealing itself is a sort of attachment to feeling nice or love or something.

Q: Yes.

A: Even that must drown here.

Q: Something doesn’t want to give that up, though, because there’s been so much suffering and now there’s so much bliss.

A: So, you will get into a tug of war with me about that one, and I know I will pull you in on it,  in the sense that if you say ‘I don’t want to give up that one’…, but I’m pulling at it, I will take it away from you one day. Because if there is an attachment to feeling a certain way, even love, it is still not original, authentic to you. If Consciousness wanted to experience only love, then it would not create the contrast.

Q: [Sighs] Thank you.

A: Good. Very good. Then we remain unconcerned about which feeling. We don’t even label anything love of disgust or peace of whatever. It is going, merrily we are rowing our boat, whatever is coming in the water is coming; it’s okay.

Good, it is very good.

Q: Maybe you can point to some more clarity to this God verses seemingly-free will?

A: Already you say a few things that make it quite clear that the belief in this individual doership is dropping. Because you say that ‘I just wanted to hear the excerpt and there was no plan to do the inquiry or to sit quietly for an hour, yet I sat’. You say that the mind came and said ‘You better be getting up and doing it’ but the getting up did not happen.

So then what are we saying? We are saying that of course the mind comes and says ‘Do this, do this, don’t do this, don’t do that’ and there are many times where the ‘do this’ doesn’t happen; and some times that the ‘do this’ happens. In the same way the ‘don’t do it’ happens or doesn’t happen.

So the movement of what appears from here has its own way, irrespective of what the mind is saying. This is already seen in your report, isn’t it? Because the mind was saying ‘Get up and do something’ yet the sitting was happening. There was no mental plan to sit and inquire; and yet the inquiry was happening. So this much is already seen. Which is already pretty good. To see that even if there was something [inaudible] it is not purely a result of what the mind was saying. So this part is already seen.

Then the question remains that ‘Who is the one that is deciding to follow the thought or not?’ Free will implies that there is a entity called Ron or an entity called Ananta who is deciding, based on the content of the thought, whether to follow the thought or not. Now I am saying that there is no entity called Ron or Ananta. And mostly you are agreeing with me and this is the magic of this whole free will discussion, that it is more natural for us to see that there is no person than it is for us to see there is no personal doership. This is the trick of doership; which is that even after we see that actually there is no person here, there is no decision maker here individually, yet the sense of individual doership, individual decision making, seems to be so sticky.

So this one that is choosing to follow the content of thought or not is which one?

That is what needs to be looked at. Is there a Ron there?

Q: Depends on what context. Sometimes I feel there is still a Ron.

A: Okay, whatever the context might be, who is this Ron?

Q: Just a bundle of thoughts, but in some context that bundle of thoughts is believed in.

A: Yes and who is believing it? Is Ron believing ‘Ron’ thoughts? If Ron itself is a belief then who is a believer? You see?

So you say that Ron is a bundle of concepts. Correct? As concepts are being emptied out, it is the disillusionment of Ron.

But who is believing these concepts to begin with? Is there a Ron to believe?

Q: It does seem like it is another thought believing that, even though that’s not really possible.

A: Yes, a thought cannot believe a thought. A thought has come and gone. It is not sitting here waiting to believe a thought.

So when we say sometimes in satsang that the ‘thought is believing a thought’ we are basically saying that the bundle of thoughts, which we have already collected, the pretend-identity that we are pretending to be…, through these thoughts, we picked up another thought to add to our basket of conditioning, our basket of concepts. But the thought is just this energy construct which has a message; it just comes and goes. It is not here to see the next thought coming and to believe in it or not.

Is the witness of the thought a thought?

Is that which has the power of belief also a thought?

Q: I want to say no, but something that comes up is when Guruji [Mooji] talks about also ‘The ego   can pretend to be I Am’…, or ‘God says I Am, the Devil also says I Am’. So, the feeling, the answer is clear that only Being has a power of belief. But the feeling is that it is the ego, not the ‘I Am’ that is believing.

A: So what does this ego look like, that is separate from the ‘I Am’? Unless it becomes ‘I am something’ it cannot become the devil. The devilish-ness is only once we attach something to the ‘I Am’, and the only way to attach is for the ‘I Am’ to believe something about itself.

Q: The gap in some context is very narrow or small between the thought and another thought of the ego that is picking up some baggage, some memory. And then there is that sense ‘Oh, the second thought on the conveyor belt is looking at the first thought and believing it’. All that is observed but sometimes because the gap is so short there isn’t that space to internalize it, in a way.

A: So, let’s look at whether this is really possible, that a thought went past and while it is going past it is waiting for the next thought to see what is coming next and it decides to believe it or not. Just check if it works like this.

Q: No, but it is in the memory. So I don’t know if memory is another thought as well.

A: Okay let me take another example which will make this clear. If I tell you that ‘Ron, you are a terrible figure skater’…, does it matter to you? Figure skater, ice skater, whatever; does it matter?

Q: No.

A: If I say that ‘Ron, you have been in satsang so long, but I don’t feel you have understood anything at all. It has been a complete waste!’ …, does it matter?

Q: No. [Laughter]

A: Lying, lying now. [Laughter]

Q: I would still continue to come. [Laughter]

A: One doesn’t have any pinch at all and one has the feeling of something. Why is that?

So this is what you are talking about. To one who has the habit of identification is with ice-skating, if you were an Olympian ice skater and someone came and told you that you were a terrible ice skater, it would pinch. But because that has not been nourished, in your case it doesn’t. But if there is this seeker identity or someone who wants freedom who has been in satsang, and if something is spoken about that, then that seems to have a pinch about something.

So, this is somewhat what you are saying that still gets our interest in the thought that is coming. But it is not the thought of the seeker itself which is believing the thought or not. It is still Consciousness posing as if it is this ‘something’, the seeker, which then takes it on as an attack, or feels like something is not nice about this particular thought.

A thought is nothing but this momentary energetic construct. The sense of separations seemingly feeds on these thoughts, these energy constructs, and seems to become either stronger or weaker. That which we call the conditioning, the increase of the conditioning and the dropping of the conditioning, is just what has been fed; the attributes which have been believed about the ‘I Am’.

So, thought by itself has no power of belief. Only belief belongs to Consciousness or Being. To just to clarify that ‘I am God and I am devil’ example, it is just that once we take on this perspective of being ‘Ron’…, ‘I am Ron, I am like this, these are my attributes’ …, then we seem to operate from that perspective. All of our belief system seems to color our seeing of who we are. So if we can make it very simple; to say ‘I am…, anything’ actually is speaking as if you’re the voice of the false or the voice of the ‘devil’.

But even pretending as if ‘I am something, I am this or that’…, no actual person, no actual ego and no actual separation actually happened, isn’t it?

Q: No.

A: Did you lose me somewhere? [Chuckles]

Q: If I heard you then certain thoughts still trigger the conditioning, which is yet another thought. But the first thought that triggered the second thought is gone, it’s not there. It’s just an energy construct that triggered another thought. And the triggered thought is believed in, so it feels real. But it’s still only the ‘I Am’ that has the power of believing that thought. And yet all of that is within an appearance so there is no separation.

I’m kind of lost though. [Chuckles] How did we get here?

A: No, it’s very good; it’s very good what you say. So, is there something in this which you see differently?

Q: So, there is that conditioning of an expectation that certain behaviors would change…, or feelings, in this context. I don’t know if I’m explaining well, but there’s this thought that comes up with the seeker. ‘Okay, what do I do with this because there’s still that problem?’ ‘That problem’ being whatever behavior the seeker doesn’t like. So, ‘How do we remove that?’ and ‘This doesn’t help me’ kind of thing. You know?

A: So, let me take a story which might seem like a little bit of a digression but actually it is not. One day I realized while looking at a mirror, that a mirror, because it’s two dimensional, lies to you. When you’re looking at it straight then it doesn’t tell you how far your paunch has gone. So, we have to look at it sideways. [Chuckles] And we realize that when we’re looking at it sideway, this pot belly stands out.

So, let’s say that this extent of the fat that is already there in the body is the existing behavior or the existing conditioning. So, we say that ‘Yes, yes, all of this ‘not believing the new thoughts’ is not adding to the conditioning, but how do I get rid of the existing conditioning?’ So, how do I get rid of the existing fat? I’m not eating new fat, but how do I get rid of the existing fat? Just by not eating more fat. It is exactly like this; that existing conditioning can be there, the existing pot belly can be there, but the only way to let it dissolve is to just not intake fat. There is no need for an operation. Although we can say that every time we inquire into who we are, every time that we recognize in this moment who we are, a lot of this ‘fat’ dissolves.

And yet, actually even if it that is not happening, unless you are picking up fresh ideas, those patterns, those tendencies, vasanas, conditionings, whatever you call them are dissolving in their own way unless you keep nourishing them with new stuff. So although it might seem like ‘Okay, he’s telling me not to pick up new conditioning, but how does it help my existing conditioning? How are we getting rid of that?’ It is happening on its own. It cannot survive without your nourishment of fresh food.

Q: Could it be that an activity or conditioning repeats without you nourishing it?

A: It could be that the activity repeats, it can be that some energetic sensations come again and again, (whatever label we put on them), but without our nourishing the interpretation of them, they will not last.

Q: Yeah, it seemed that was also my understanding from the free will discussion that the activities and the decision points of seeming choice will continue but the problem, if you will, is only believing the interpretation that comes afterward by the mind, or before, saying ‘You have to make a decision’ or you see you made a decision or a wrong decision. But so long as those thought interpretations are not bought, the rest of it is completely fine.

A: Exactly.

Q: And the same with the conditioning. Even if the activity keeps going coming up, and for sure the mind, the checker, is going to keep saying ‘See, you missed it again’…, but if that is not bought then it’s fine. Because I think that is, or was, a sneaky way of the checker kind of keeping coming back in.

A: Yes. This is very nice that you spotted this also, because this is the mind pretending to be your spiritual guide. ‘You should have done this like this. You’re still not getting it’. Who made this one the spiritual guide?

Q: Who what?
A: Who made this one the spiritual guide; the mind? [Chuckles] Because it takes up that position also and says ‘See, you didn’t do that properly, what you’re supposed to do is this’.

The medicine that the mind offers up is more of the disease actually; than actually helping for the disease.

Q: The sense of doership is very subtle. It’s not the activity.

A: And I had great fun experimenting with doership. And I would suggest that all of you, instead of making it such a difficult-sounding topic and trying to mentally analyze it, play with it. Ask yourself ‘How do you move your body? How do you speak the next word? How do you decide to do certain actions? Who is deciding?’ Play with it like a game. And then it will reveal itself, that everything is just moving on its own. Don’t make it very serious. Just play. Move your hand; decide to move your hand and see ‘How did you actually move it?’ Irrespective of the decision, how did it actually happen? How did you actually move your hand? Who is the one that moved it? Who is the one that is speaking these words? Who is that one that is listening? Like a game, like a play; have fun with it. Who is the one who decides to have fun with it? [Chuckles] You see?

Q: Reminds me of a beautiful pointing that Rupert Spira had of asking ‘Is there anything that you know except for the Knowing of the experience?’ And that was kind of a mind-bender/twister, (what would you all it), for me initially when I heard it. But I kept pondering it. Something just sunk in since there is no substance, there is no object that I’m in contact with so of course, I can’t be a doer of anything. That it’s all just Consciousness. And yet, the feeling is still very usual, normal; I don’t know what to call it. But it’s a beautiful pointing, that there’s nothing but the Knowing of that experience, of whatever experience is happening. All of the sudden, you’re moving. Like I went swimming. There’s just the bubble of seeming sensations that I associate with the body but I can’t say that I know how to swim. Or do I know what water is, and …., [chuckles] …, where is all of this happening? But it’s happening. And there’s a Knowing of that happening. And so all of that must happen within the Knowing.

A: Look at that! How beautiful. Very good. This is very beautiful.

Another way to look at what you said is that this body is just this bundle of flesh, blood; basically all the food that we’ve eaten, then Who Is That who is moving this bundle of flesh and blood? Is it part of this flesh and blood?

The ‘me’ which says ‘I will do this and I will do that’…, how does it interact, at what level does it interact with this body of flesh and blood? Is it flesh and blood somewhere? And if it is also made up of flesh and blood, then why don’t I find this ‘me’ in an operation; in a surgery? Who is this ‘me’ that is moving this body of flesh and blood?

Then the idea can come ‘Oh, then I must be the brain then. The brain is controlling the movement of this body. So, this brain, this flesh, called ‘me’…, if I’m just a brain then how does it matter what my bank account is and how my relationships are?’

We can really look at these things and say ‘Okay, if I’m the doer and I’m moving this body, then from where am I controlling this body? How it it? Am I sitting inside the head somewhere? To move this bucket of flesh and blood, do I need to be flesh and blood?’

I feel these are very beautiful contemplations and experiments and my only advise would be don’t make it very serious, don’t get too serious about it. Have fun with it. See how the hand is moving, the words are appearing. Then it doesn’t feel like frustrating, depressing. It just feels like ‘Oh! This is my fresh experiment today. This is my fresh experiment today’.

Q: Thank you.

A: Thank you, my dear.

Q: On the way home, I had YouTube on and I was listening to the beginning of the satsang tonight, (for me, tonight, for you it’s the morning), and you were talking with Robert. I was really tuned into what you were saying, and there was this arguing going on in my head while you were talking. I don’t remember specifically what it was, but every time you would say something and there was this ‘Oh, yeah, sure, right! I don’t think so’. The ‘doubter’. I guess it’s the ‘doubter’. There’s a real ‘doubter’ in me. And I’m exposing that, I guess. What I was thinking was at least I was hearing what you were saying, because sometimes when you’re talking and you’re laying out the Advaita, like ‘Here it is’ there’s some part of me that goes…, I don’t know where; like off to lunch or something. Like there’s this noise that starts, and I can’t hear. I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s like you’re speaking Martian or something. But at least I was hearing it. The data was yelling in the background but at least I could hear you enough to know ‘I’m hearing him…, and somebody’s yelling’. So I wanted to put that out there.  (. . .)

A: One thing I want to start with is this whole seeing that this ‘doubter’ is there, saying about everything that is being shared in satsang ‘Yeah, as if…! He makes it sound as if it’s cheese cake or something; so simple’. Like this. But it is important, it is very good that you are able to say that ‘There’s this voice in me which is speaking like this’…, which is vastly different than ‘I was saying ‘yeah, right!’ or ‘I was feeling like this is not true’. So already there’s a lot of space in that.

So many times, especially in ‘A Course in Miracles’ they say ‘If you spot it, you got it’. Of course, that’s used in a different context. But here, if you spot it, then you drop it. Because the spotting of it is separate from the reality of What You Are. You See that there’s a doubter there which is speaking. You’re not saying that ‘I am doubting’. Already that is very beautiful. Because the identity with it is dissolving. Although it still might have some sense of power, that is reducing. It is no longer that strong, that powerful, that it seems like it is I.

So all these other attributes are the pretend ‘I’…, the doubter, the checker, the reporter, all of these. The same pretend ‘I’ have these attributes. And it’s very good that you’re able to spot it like this and say that ‘You know, earlier, it was so strong that as you would speak it would just seem like I am distracted or I am doubting everything that you are saying; therefore not able to hear. Today what was happening is that something was really hearing’. You see? That means it was being recognized directly. And yet the mind was trying to resist it by coming as the doubter and saying whatever. It can come up with any sort of doubt.

So, it’s very good actually. For me, it is a good report, that you are able to see that there’s this voice, which is the same voice playing in different roles; the doubter, the proclaimer, the reporter, the checker. All these are the variants of the one ego. And now you’re able to spot it as if it’s just a voice which is appearing, just like any other appearance. In that already, you see that You are not it. There’s a voice here which is claiming to have this separate identification but it’s losing its power, because you’re saying ‘I’m able to hear what you’re saying’. Something is assimilating that. And yet there’s this ‘guy’ who keeps saying something or the other to get in the way.

Q: When I hear you, I feel happy to hear that you consider that progress. And at the same time, there’s this sadness that comes up.

A: What is the message with the sadness? Is it just an energetic sadness, or is there some story with it also?

Q: I think it’s an energetic sadness. And I’ve been trying to figure it out. I’m a therapist; that’s my job, right? [Laughs] I figure out my own issues. But I don’t think there’s a story connected to it; it’s just this energetic sadness.

A: It can be that something feels like it’s the end of the play of the mind or something feels like an end of an era of some sort; of playing as Lucia or something like this. So if it’s just energetic, best to just leave it to release itself. Just the same with joy. Just to let it come and let it go. Not to get attached to any interpretation of it.

I know I keep harping on the same point over and over again. (So that’s all I got; that’s the only trouble that I see. [Laughs] Actually, it’s not trouble.) But just that here, how it plays, is just very directly to look at the source of our pretend separation. And I don’t see it in energetic movement, I don’t see it in emotion, sensation, I don’t see it in the actions that are coming through the body; actions and reactions. I only see this pretense coming with this identification with the thoughts; the belief in the thoughts.

You have come to the point where you’re able to see for yourself what is true and what is not true, what is here and what is just imagined, what is reality, and what is an interpretation. You have seen all this for yourself. Now you don’t need to pick up any more spiritual ideas.

Because what is happening is that something seems to be consuming these ideas and then making something frantic: ‘I’ve been going through all of this, it’s so much!’ And you can see that it is the mind that wants to be in a rush, rush, rush. It wants to be in a rush for answers, it wants to be in a rush to get somewhere, to know something.

Now, we can drop all of that, and come to this Right Now. And if we have to report something, then we can report directly from what is being Seen.

It is very important that we don’t get caught up in the web of words again. Because everyone will have a different form of expression, they’ll say different things and everything will become a big mish-mash in the mind. The mind is celebrating actually. The mind will be celebrating that.

So just allow all these ideas to just float past. And you stay in your direct experience now. Because I know that you can see directly now…, into what are just concepts, what are just ideas. And actually as you remain in this, then you’ll find that even the seeming-dichotomy in various expressions doesn’t seem to bother you anymore. It is seen as just another expression. You’re so grounded; as the wind is coming from the left or the right, strong or weak, all of these things don’t matter then. So, all these expressions of various teachers, of all of the various people who are sharing, they just seem like different aspects then. But you’re so rooted in your own Seeing, your own experience of what is true, that it doesn’t shake you.

What if we lost the ability to understand all words? What if all concepts started sounding so alien? What would we really lose? ‘Yak, yak, yak, yabba, yabba, yabba’. [Laughter] What would we lose? Just our basket of concepts. Would life stop?

What concept do we need to…… ‘Be’?

What concept do we need to…… ‘See’?

So, the spiritual concepts are just making you spiritual ‘people’. And it’s better to forget about it. If Advaita is making an Advaitan out of you, then better to forget about it. Because many things we have been; many roles we have played. We are tired of this role-play.

Whatever you are becoming is not You. If you’re becoming more spiritual, it’s not You. If you’re becoming better at something, it is not You. Because that which changes, is not You.

So what are we doing in satsang then? We are looking at What Is. It is not about becoming free, because that which can become free is not You. Because becoming anything, including free, implies that there is a change which is possible, in You.

The point of asking ‘Who Am I?’ is to See what it IS right now.

Who am I, right now?

And any conclusion we pick up about this is only our denial of What Is.

The Americans sometimes say that ‘If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen’. What I like to say is ‘If you can’t stand the heat, stay in the kitchen. Don’t run to your mind’. It seems hot for second, for a minute, for a while; this openness…, this alone-ness…., this Oneness. It seems a bit wobbly, it seems a bit hot for a while. And to escape this heat, we latch on to the next thought, as if it is going to help us.

Just for a while, if we can stay open without any crutches, without the identity…, you come into this naturalness. The lightness of Being. You are coming to this point where believing the interpretation about life seems like too much hard work. We’re coming to our child-like innocence. Right now, You are the Unborn.

It’s only the interpretation which is causing all this trouble. If we keep adding more and more spiritual concepts, more and more spiritual ideas, they’re not bringing you peace. Peace is here now.

I know nothing about lifetimes and things like this. I just know that if the Self is real, if the Truth is here, then It must be here now.

If you don’t feed yourself any of these ideas, even the moods, they can come and they can go. Don’t be so concerned about the play of this body/mind.

So although the witnessed and the Witnessing are one, the Witnessing is That which is forever untouched by that which is witnessed. Just like the yin and the yang, they go about in this beautiful play, round and round, but they remain untouched.

To see that you are the Witnessing, do you have to think about it? If you have to think about it, then it is not a Seeing. Seeing is more natural than that. The recognition doesn’t need our thoughts. Who are you, right now…, without the interpretation and the conceptualization of the mind?

Q: Yeah, Father, I just don’t feel like doing anything at all, and whatever I try to do requires too much of effort. I really don’t know what to do and my condition is deteriorating each day, and.., the people around are so worried about me.

A: So yesterday you said that ‘I surrender my power of belief to you’.

Q: Yes, Father.

A: What? Did you take it back or what happened?

Q: [Laughter]

A: Okay, let me speak about this for a bit, because it can seem like, for a while, as we are surrendering our belief in the mind there can seem like, for most of us actually, (it happened here also), that the interest in worldly activities, worldly socialization, worldly work, seems to reduce.

Even here for many months there was no sense of wanting to work, wanting to do something social; and actually there was very little concern about it also. But when I saw the family, my wife, my parents, they would come and say ‘So, what’s happening now? What’s happening about your work? What happened to you? You had so much fire for work. You did such a big conference before you went to Tiru. [Tiruvannamali] Now is something happening? Are you sending emails all day or what are you doing on the computer?’

These kinds of questions were coming and that was being registered. So one day actually I wrote an email to Guruji [Mooji] and said ‘Thank you so much. Everything seems so clear but there’s no interest in any sort of work. The only…’ (and jokingly I was saying, half-jokingly actually I also said) ‘The only interest that seems to remain…’ (at that time, it’s funny now. I look at it), ‘The only interest that seems to remain is in watching cricket’.

[Laughter]

Now actually that is even not so much; very little of that also. [Laughter]. At that time I wrote to him that ‘I don’t feel like working and that is what is happening, and the family is very concerned, but I am very happy right now’. So he said that ‘Tell Garima [Ananta’s wife] to trust that what is happening with you cannot be bad for anyone around you, it’s only going to bring Grace and auspiciousness in everyone’s life’. And he said that ‘This is a very natural way in which this happens, this seeming lack of interest in phenomenal activities’.

Then after a few weeks, after this email interaction I noticed that just there was more life energy, more life force that came for work, but it did not seem like my work, it did not seem like ‘I have to do this’. It just became a flow, and things were flowing just like this, they were just flowing.

Just like we share satsang, put on the computer, join the hangout, log onto YouTube, read the chat messages, we hear what others are saying. So to the mind even this can seem like a lot of work, but it is not; it is just happening here.

To give responses to the mind can seem like ‘Oh you’re working for three hours every day, you’re sharing satsang’. No just like the questions are heard, the answers are also heard. So this sense of me doing something; that has gone. I can tell you that even the by-products of this; letting go of the mind, it’s very beautiful because the number of arguments in my marriage have reduced to very, very…, almost non-existent; which I thought it would be mythical to have a marriage and not argue. Now I see it is happening with so much more acceptance, so much more peace. Of course momentarily something can come. The relationships with my children, family, everything seems to be quiet, quiet, peaceful, quiet, going along on its own very beautifully.

Even with work, nothing seems to phase me. Got one project, lost one project, did something well, didn’t do something well; all of this does not seem to really matter so much. Same for my investing, some stocks do well, some stocks do not do well, ups and downs. It’s all okay.

So it is not that all the activities have stopped, but the fear, the greed about it, the doer-ship about it, the wanting of a particular outcome, the wanting to be right, the guilt, the regret, the remorse, pride…, all of this has fallen off.

Sometimes some of you might have this impression that we’re really hard-core or something. ‘No we just want you to suffer and let go of the mind and then your life will be terrible but we don’t care, we don’t care about it’. It’s not like that. [Laughter] Nobody would want their children to suffer, in any way, even in the phenomenal way, you see? Would I want you to have terrible relationships? Would I want your children to suffer? No, why would I? But I know that at the root of this is just this belief in our mind.

So as we let go of our belief in our thoughts, then all these by-products…, (which I don’t talk about so often because it becomes an expectation), but it is inevitable that you will be surrounded by the Presence of love, peace and joy without any concern about their coming and going.

It is not possible for those who have given up on their identity, on their mind, it is not possible, (at least it is unheard of), for that appearance to be not surrounded by the appearance of peace, love, bliss, joy. And they’re allowed to move about in their own beautiful way.

So nobody can say ‘I’m constantly feeling this love, constantly.’ If you’re constantly feeling it then you’ll stop recognizing it. Just like the taste in our mouths; we don’t recognize what it is. It seems like it’s neutral when we eat some sugar or some salt or some spice. But I’m sure that the sensors, if there was some taste sensor, it would not be there in the mouth naturally. It would have some taste. So, that which is constantly present, we feel that it has no value. So therefore the phenomenal play of love, peace and joy can continue.

The mind says ‘But this should become a constant. I’ve had the taste of it. Now this should stay and then I will give myself the Freedom certificate’. It’s not that. It’s only, only about the Right Now. Only about the Right Now. There’s only This Now.

So like you said yesterday ‘I surrender my power of belief to you’. Now don’t take it back. You see? Because when you surrender the power of belief, belief of the mind, then your intuition, the Satguru, comes and takes your hand.

So if you want to make a journey out of it then give one hand to the mind and one hand to the Guru. Then you’ll be wobbling like this, like this; sometimes attracted to the mind, sometimes attracted to the Guru. Just like this, you’ll be wobbling on this journey. If you don’t want a journey, if you’ve had enough of all of this, then don’t take back the power of your belief. Because belief is given only to the false. The Truth does not need belief. That which Is…, does not need to be believed to come into existence. That which Is…, does not need the power of belief to come into existence. It is prior to belief. That which never is…, gives the power of belief to pretend to exist.

So that ‘Prachi’ which never is, relies only on the concepts you have about yourself. But that God, which You are, is not reliant on any belief. It just Is…, I Am. It does not need to be believed ‘I Am’. It needs to be believed ‘I am something’. But ‘I Am’ is prior to belief. Can you say ‘I am something’ without believing?

Q: No.

A: See, like this. So just ‘I Am’. You cannot even say ‘I Am not’ without a belief, because your natural state is ‘I Am’.

So stay like this. Give it some time and you will find that all the by-products of this Freedom also will start showing up. But have no rush about that, have no expectation about that, and you will find joy in the strangest of places now, in the seeming mundane (to the mind), you will find the greatest joy. Because the mind has a habit of making everything mundane.

We can be flying in an airline so many feet above the ground; the clouds are under you. And for the frequent fliers that has become so mundane. We can be in a hangout like this, (which was not possible ten years ago), with apparent-Beings from all over the world, all continents, all countries, sharing together like in this one satsang. But the mind will also make this mundane. So don’t give it to the mind because, as my master says ‘It will put mud into everything’. But you will find joy, as you let go of this mind; you will find joy in everything.

[Silence]

So don’t make it a short-term surrender. You surrendered your belief yesterday; you keep it surrendered for some time at least. Then if you come after a few weeks and say ‘No, it doesn’t work’ then I’m happy to have that conversation with you. So then come to me and say ‘No, it doesn’t work. I didn’t pick up a thought for a few weeks and see there is no peace, I’m more confused’. Then come and say; then I’m very happy to look. Because you have come to this auspicious point where you said that ‘I surrender my power of belief itself to you’. Not even ‘surrendering my next thought’…, [surrendering] the power of belief itself. Then you cannot truly speak to me about any trouble.

Actually what leads to the biggest doubts is the sheer simplicity of this, because the mind will keep saying ‘Is that it? It’s just this? No… Either know that he is hiding something, he’s not giving me the full truth; or maybe he also doesn’t know it. I heard from some other Master that this happens, actually’. [Chuckles]

Our ideas about our freedom seem like they’re an obstacle to seeing the freedom that is Now. Just like our ideas about anyone that we meet seem to prevent an actual meeting as One.

So our ideas about anything are not helpful anymore, especially not helpful in the recognition of the Self; definitely not helpful in the end of conditioning. Conditioning is made up of just ideas.

Just Now, it is so pristine. We’re in the beginning of satsang; I can sense the mind also starting to warm up. ‘Oh, this is what he’s talking about today. Let’s come up. What do we have about this?’ So then it will start offering you ‘But, like this. But what about this?’ And if it feels to offer you things about this, what is being spoken then, it can offer you other things. ‘What about  that email I was supposed to send. How is my family feeling?’ Something, something. And we’ve all seen this now; we’ve all seen this now.

And I feel that we’ve made it very simple here. Because I’m not saying that we have to get into some sort of a war with our attention. I’m not saying that. The mind saying ‘Don’t look at it, fight it’. But if you can do that, if you can just ignore the mind into oblivion, then nothing better. But that is also a prerequisite, because it is not just our attention which goes to these thoughts, it is also our belief. And we must all see by now; we must all contemplate these things.

What is the difference between attention and belief?

What is attention?

What is belief?

What does attention engage with?

What can belief engage with?

For example, attention can engage with objects. But can belief also engage with objects, phenomenal objects? Belief only engages with one type of object, which is thoughts.

So, we must be able to now discern between all these energies which lead to our seeming-participation in this realm as if I am a person. It’s not without effort that this can happen. So the effort is in actually picking up the ‘person’ not the dropping of the ‘person’. So once we start looking at these forces, attention, belief, intention, leading to identity, then we come to the core of what we are speaking about.

What is it that is here right now?

Who is here?

And my question is not to get you to label it very quickly, who is here. Just to label it ‘God’ because I say so is not helpful…, although it might be better than labeling it a ‘me’. Just the label ‘God’ is not it.

What is it that is here now?

[Silence]

Hasn’t this always been…, for any time that we can say ‘always’?

Isn’t that what is Here Now?

Hasn’t this always been…, without any label?

Without the concept of something missing, there is nothing missing.

The good news is that without the concept of bondage, there is freedom.

And without the concept of freedom, there is freedom.

Even with the concept of bondage, it is freedom, but it doesn’t seem like it.

But don’t activate that urge…, because the mind is now warmed up so it’s coming up with some stuff. So don’t activate that urge to believe what it is saying. This power belongs to You. Not ‘you-personally’. But belief is one of your primal powers, as God, as Consciousness.

So, that’s it then. Simple as that.

Q: There’s this veil that I can’t pierce through and then there’s wall that I hit in the inquiry that I can’t seem to get beyond, so I was hoping maybe you can provide me, like, something…, to get beyond this.

A: Okay, Let’s look together for some time.

Let’s start at this point which is familiar to all of us, which is the appearance of thoughts.

So just simply allow the next thought to appear.

Don’t be concerned about what it is saying.

Notice that you are aware of these thoughts.

And you are aware of the space between thoughts.

You Are.

Whether the thought is present or not, You Are.

Who Am I that is aware of thoughts,

and is aware when there are no thoughts?

Now bring your attention to anything that might be experienced.

If you can’t find an emotion,

then bring your attention to any sensation which is experienced now.

Notice that you are aware of the sensation,

The sensation is not aware of you.

And whether the sensation is present or absent,

You remain.

Now notice the sense that ‘I am here’.

The sense that ‘I exist’.

The feeling of existence, that ‘I Am’.

Who am I that is aware even of this Presence?

That is aware of the sense that I exist?

The ‘I’ that is aware; what do I look like?

At what distance am I from this Awareness?

Without this Awareness, nothing exists.

How far am I from this Awareness?

What is most original to me, except to Be this Awareness?

Who Am I?

Am I that which is being seen?
Or am I the Seeing Itself?

Who am I?

What are my attributes?

Is there something about me that doesn’t come and go?

Who am I?

I remain as the witness to all that which is appearing and disappearing.

How do I witness mySelf?

Does this witness have a name?

Does it have a form?

Does it have any attribute at all?

Who am I?

If I am some-thing, I must have at least one attribute.

But I have no color, shape, size, name.

And I am aware, as Awareness Itself.

I am aware of the Presence of Peace,

Yet I am unconcerned by it.

I remain as the Awareness Itself.

That which is coming and going does not touch Me.

I remain as the Witnessing of that.

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

She says that ‘I’m feeling so much fear inside’. This fear is appearing inside you. This inside of you, this you, which one is this one? Is there anything else except the fear? Take the mic, come closer. Let’s take the question. You say ‘There is fear inside of me. So much fear’.

Q: Some ideas of vulnerability.

A: These ideas of vulnerability. Fear is there. What else?

Q: The desire to be free.

A: The desire to be free. What else?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: All of that together?

Q: Yes. They’re connecting to some memory about [Inaudible]…, I don’t know about the future, but I don’t mind, in fact. [Inaudible] [Laughing] I am not afraid of you, I’m afraid of me. You know what I mean?

A: The mind is very afraid of the Truth, which is You.

Q: Yes.

A: So, all of this is there inside you. Even the vibration is there inside You. So this You, inside which fear is there, all these thoughts are there, the body is vibrating; how big is that You? Is it small, this small? [holds fingers close] Is it big, this big? [Stretches arms out wide].

Q: I don’t know.

A: Because while we feel that I’m limited, as long as we feel that I am limited in some way through the boundaries of the body or something like that, you will feel that this fear can be too much. Once you see your Infinite-ness, once you see that you are boundary-less, all of this will just seem like small dots on a big wall.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: But what I’m saying that this ‘I’ that is afraid does not exist; already. We don’t have to become nothing. The ‘I’ that is afraid is only the mind’s voice, and the mind is representing nobody.

Q: It’s difficult. It’s difficult to understand. [Inaudible]

A: So, all that I’m saying, (the mind will come and try to confuse it, but all that I’m saying), is that this mind, these thoughts, are representing nobody. The one that is afraid…,

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Like you say, I know that the mind is not representing the reality of what I am, it is representing this phantom idea of what I am. You yourself say. This one that exists is not the one that the mind is representing.

Q: It’s free of these ideas.

A: It’s free of these ideas.

Q: And it doesn’t worry about opinions [Inaudible]…, it doesn’t need anybody. Wow.

A: But this is what you have to get used to. In spite of the fear, in spite of the shaking, don’t now refer to the mind to make your report. Observe the urge to go to the mind, and allow the attention to go if it wants to, but don’t buy what it is selling; don’t believe it. You will not lose out on anything. Your life will not become terrible. All these fears are pointless. Let the energy of the fear play out if it has to, but don’t interpret even this fear. Whatever your mind is saying, it is not for You. It is not about You. It is only about the mythical ego, the mythical separation which never really happened. Everything …

Q: [Inaudible story]

A: Even to pick up this [story], you have to go to the mind? Or no?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: But You’re not label-able. It is not labeled as anything. The fear is there. You don’t know what it is.

Q: Yes, I cannot say. [Inaudible] It’s there just as an energy.

A: Better to not give any interpretation to it.

Q: It’s this fear of losing control.

A: Don’t even label it as a fear to lose control.

Q: But…, [Inaudible] [coughing]

A: Let the movement happen. Don’t label, even now. Let it happen. Let it come and let it go.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Don’t label. This is what we’ve been doing throughout our lives. Someone comes in front, we label that. Some feeling comes, we label that. Some body sensation comes, we label that.

Q: [Long coughing fit]. I don’t know if it is mind playing.

A: No, let the energetic plays happen. You don’t label it as anything.

Q: But the shame comes…

A: Able to drop these labels? Or no?

Q: It seems too much or something.

A: You must be able to drop the label.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: The mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts and similar energies. We don’t have to do anything. Just let it come and go. We don’t have to get to the cause of it. How will it help? How will it help to know the cause?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: [Silence] We can notice the mind’s tendency to label everything! Not just objects which are appearing to us outside; even what is happening with us we are always in a rush to label. ‘Well, this is happening here, therefore I must be not free. Or this is happening here, therefore I must be free’. Throw away the label ‘free’ or ‘not free’. [Silence] Without making the distinction of these labels, there is no separation.

Are you okay to exist without concepts…, to exist without concepts? This doesn’t mean that the mind will stop offering them. The mind can keep offering them. You don’t believe them. Throw away the dictionary and forget vocabulary. [Chuckles]

Look around you and See. Look around you and See how everything the mind offers a label for. Even the words it hears, it wants to jump in and add some value to them; add an interpretation or a confirmation. Even now, for many of you, what you’re hearing, it is going ‘Yes, yes. No, no. Yes’. [Laughter] We don’t need that stuff. ‘I really notice I’m liking this’. It doesn’t matter. It’s labeling everything, interpreting everything; and then the story starts. One thing…, you pick it up; it could be as simple as ‘I didn’t get his last point’ and then the story can start. ‘I didn’t get his last point. Yeah, actually now that I think about it, the last few weeks, you know…, maybe I’m losing it. I got everything I needed from here. Maybe it’s time to move on’. Just one thing! You bite into it, and it can lead to all of this story. ‘I don’t know when, but satsang stopped working for me’. [Laughter] That happened to anybody? It’s very normal like this.

You give the mind an inch and it takes a mile. It’s only waiting for the right opportunity. One doubt, one doubt can come like this, and it can take you all over in terms of your beliefs. Just like a Bangalore auto-rickshaw driver. The one time that you don’t correct the directions, then you will be sure that you will see half of Bangalore. [Chuckles] Once he knows you don’t know the way, then you’ll get home in two hours. Just like this.

So Rob has posted this nice animated GIF, which had this conveyor belt of chocolate, and it was from an old tv series ‘I Love Lucy’ where she stuffed her mouth first and then she’s collecting, she’s collecting in her clothes, she’s collecting all these things [chocolates] from the conveyor belt. That’s what we’ve been doing. We take one idea, stuff ourselves with that, and then we want to collect more and more and more concepts. And we feel like the concepts will give us something, that we will find some freedom in them. But to fill ourselves more and more with these concepts is not freedom.

I heard that Jesus said in the bible ‘Only the babes will enter the kingdom of heaven’. To me this means this innocence, this childlike concept-less existence. And the best part is that every moment you start like this: Right now, if you bring your attention to this moment, there is nothing. You are unburdened. So we don’t have to get somewhere. What’s happened is that we pick up this heavy basket of concepts, and naturally in every moment it slips through our hands and falls back down.

You are free right now!

The fear can come that ‘I’m missing something. I lost my basket’. But now, even if you look at the basket, even if you give your attention to your next thought, don’t pick it up! And you remain free.

You remain free. You have not become free. There is nobody here to become free. It is only God pretending to be a person, and God dropping the pretense. There is no way, even for God, to pretend to be a person without picking up the next thought. There is just no way.

How many of you are with me on this? There is no way for God or Consciousness to pretend as if it is a person unless we pick up our next thought. Is there any other way for the pretense to continue? I can’t see it.

So if this entire tree of conditioning is dependent only on our belief in our next thought, then what about the spiritual journey? The spiritual journey only applies as long as we are picking up these ideas. You see? And the so-called spiritual journey is excruciating if you’re doing half and half; if you’re distinguishing satsang and the so-called real world, if you’re listening both to the voice of the Being, the intuitive Presence, the Satguru…, and listening to the mind. If you listen to both then it can seem like you’re prolonging the spiritual journey.

This labeling, although it can seem like such an innocent concept…, ‘I’m just giving it a name’…, labeling. But actually, this is the root of all separation, because the Truth of what we are is un-label-able. You cannot put a label; although we try with words like ‘Awareness’ or ‘The Self’ or ‘The Absolute’. But truly none of these are sufficient to describe the reality of This ‘I’.

So if ‘I’ is the un-label-able One, and everything that appears is just a projection of this ‘I’, is an aspect of this ‘I’, therefore this also ultimately has no name. Therefore it is the un-named One, playing as name and form. Therefore, maya is called ‘this world of name and form’ which actually does not exist. It has no tangible reality. And the direct recognition and experience of this is what satsang is for.

So as we let go of the labels in this appearance, with that, we let go of the attachments, the ideas of ‘mine’ and ‘me’. The unburdening of all of these concepts is the end of conditioning. Because there can be no conditioning without labels. There can be no conditioning without the idea of ‘me’. Then only Existence remains; I Am.

And as this sense ‘I Am’ is Seen, then it is Seen that ‘I Am That’ which is prior even to ‘I Am’. It has no labels, it has no shape. And all this labeling was part of this video game called ‘maya’. Consciousness added the label, and now it seems to be done with it.

Therefore the dropping of labels is really important; we can say it like this. Because you cannot carry your labels and drop your identity.

Q: Father, there was this beautiful urge for freedom the last little while, but the mind has kind of seemed to make a desire out of it, and now the mind is also throwing a fear that this freedom is very rare, and only such a few people come for satsang, and out of those few people who come for satsang, very few people can be free. So it’s almost like you are chasing something which is not going to happen. Also over here there seems to be much oscillation between ‘not believing your next thought, being in the moment, here and now’ and the other end of the pendulum which is ‘believing your next thought and suffering’. So in the last few days there seems to be this oscillation and because the oscillation is there, the mind is saying. See? Father says you can be free in the moment now, and I agree with you, but what about this oscillation? You know what I mean?

A: Suppose you didn’t add the ‘but’?

Q: Where was the ‘but’?

A: [The ‘but’ after the following part of the sentence] ‘You can be free now, I agree with you’. [Smiles]

Q: Then what about the moments when I am not free. Father? [Smiles]

A: What about them? They are gone! [Laughs]

Q: So there seems to be a desire to not have those moments and only have the moments where I am abiding as the Self.

A: Okay, so forget about this desire.

Q: So forget about means what, Father?

A: Forget implies don’t give it any value, because you know it is just a thought. Did I say you will never have moments of identification? Did I say I never have moments of identification?

Q: But Father your moments of identification are wayyyyyy less than my moments of identification. [Laughter]

A: Yes, there is something to this, to what you say. So that will keep reducing.

Q: There seems to be this thing, Father, that I want it in this lifetime.

A: Yes.

Q: And for me, all this is coming up for the first time because I have never really…, and maybe I have spoken to you about this with you earlier…, since the last one and a half year, since I have been coming to satsang, it is not like I had an urge for freedom. I have just been coming for freedom. I don’t know why and how, etc. Every time you have asked ‘Are you here for freedom?’ there wasn’t like a ‘YES!’ for me coming. But in the last 2 months this huge urge has kind of developed, which is leading to this all these freedom kind of … So it seems the mind is now using freedom, to not have freedom.

A: [Smiles] If you allow this checker guy to continue a minute longer, I will come to Pune and whack you! [Laughs]

Q: [Laughs] Oh, Father I allow it! [so that you come to Pune]

A: [Laughs] Because very subtly, seemingly with humble desires, this one, [checker guy], if it takes root then it becomes a pain to uproot. So you say ‘So far it is not too strong, now it is coming’. Why is it coming now? Because you are having the recognition, you are having the insights about what you are, and you are resonating very well with the words that are being shared here. They are hitting home. So now this one will come and say ‘Oh but see it is supposed to be one in a million. There are so many who have been here longer than you. Who are you to get this? What makes you so worthy?’

It’s just about the Right Now. It’s only about the Right Now. It is only the mind which comes and says ‘But what about them? What about after satsang?’ It is only about Now! Resist the urge to make this meaningless-mind meaningful; just Now! It is enough for me! You are worthy! If Just Now, you don’t buy your next thought, you are 100% worthy! I don’t care what you have read, which masters you have visited, whether you know the difference between Consciousness and Awareness, whether you know both of them are one; all of this is I don’t care! If you can just see right now that ‘There is the power to give meaning, to give relevance, to give value, to my next thought, and I will not give to my next thought’…, it is enough for me. So ‘Forget about it’ only means allowing it to come and go! Don’t dance with it.

Q: [Crying] That is exactly what is happening, Father! Exactly!

A: These are first world problems, you know, satsang world problems. [Laughs] When we come in to satsang, it’s just like ‘I don’t want to suffer any more. I want my relationships to be better. I just want to be happy’. You see? Like most of humanity’. And as we see that we are letting these thoughts come and go…, ‘That is coming. I am not really able to hold on to suffering’…, then suffering comes through what? Then it comes through these first world problems: ‘Freedom? Do I know Awareness and Consciousness?’ [Smiles]

Q: Okay. Thank you, Father.

A: You are welcome, my dear.

What will happen, as you become more settled in your own Seeing, you will find that all of these beautiful Masters can be heard; and you learn to rely on your own Seeing so much that sometimes when something even seems like it’s in dichotomy to something, it doesn’t bother you. Because your own Seeing becomes the primary reference point. And at least if something’s not shared from here, you have an opportunity every day to come and say ‘Ananta, you say like this. Can we look together? Because something doesn’t seem to be resonating in the way that I’m seeing it and the way that you are saying it. So can we see together what you mean by this?’ I’m very open to this contemplation together. We look together and see.

Because as you’re coming more and more into this silence, all of this will seem so obvious to you. What you were saying which seemed to be so conceptual some time ago will become so obvious and simple. And you’ll find that even the greatest scriptures, what they are saying, (the Ashtavakra Gita, the Ribhu Gita), all of these will seem like they’re just kindergarten text books. They will not seem so fancy now. They will seem so obvious, like ‘Yes, yes, yes’. Like this.

So then there will be a great inclusiveness. And then all different expressions of the sages, the masters, will be accepted; because one is talking about Love being the ultimate, one is talking about Being is the ultimate, one is saying there is no Awareness, one is saying there is only something else; whatever. Then as your reference becomes your own Seeing, then all of these are also accepted with Big Love. But the ability to cause confusion in that will reduce more and more.

That is the point of this direct sort of satsang, because I want you to see for yourself what the truth is. And once you See and confirm over and over that the sun comes up from the East, then you can hear from the greatest authorities, you can read in the most honored scriptures that actually the sun comes from the West but it won’t shake you, because you’ve seen for yourself what the truth is.

What happens here also so much is that mostly what is being shared by various teachers is being accepted with a lot of love, a lot of enjoyment. Even if someone comes and…, I’ve heard things like this, that ‘Awareness is just a functioning of Consciousness’ or something like this. And when you See that you see for yourself that there is this awareness even of Being…, and there is a phenomenal witnessing, which is a functioning of Consciousness, then there is not this impulse to criticize or to say ‘No, no, they are wrong and I am right’ or something like this. Just ‘Yes. It’s just an expression. It’s being expressed like this’. Who knows who is right, who is wrong; that is not of any importance. But I have to be true to what is Seen here.

The same way, you just have to remain true to what you See. This is integrity, as [Nisargadatta] Maharaj said. So, the words of satsang we are using to just check into our own Seeing, and if it resonates with our own Seeing, we accept it. If we find that it seems to be different, then we come up and we say ‘This is how I see it. Can we look together?’ This is very beautiful for us to do.

Q: For some time, what is happening is that this desire to know, desire to interpret, all of this is just fading away. Like whatever you’re talking, is just seen as a kind of a hearing, without any meaning, without any words, or any interpretation. So, I just see a figure, you know, movement of the lips. So, I have tried it very hard actually, but it is just not clicking. You know? It is just fading, disintegrating. The satsang which I hear, I don’t remember. What I read actually, they don’t really stay; it is like actually just some kind of black and white kind of a thing. All the definitions…, everything is just dissolving actually. You know, it is going only to very, very basic things like only the five senses working. There is no interpretation from the mind actually. Now what is happening is there’s a complete…, I can’t even say the silence because even the silence is Seen. Everything is Seen, in fact. I’m totally naked; I’m totally naked in fact. It is difficult to explain. It is very difficult to explain. And then what happens, there is no desire to know anything, there is no desire to understand anything; there is no desire to learn anything, to do anything or act on anything. I mean, nothing to be done as such, you know? Nothing to be done. Now what happens, a thought comes. A thought comes ‘Are you aware?’ Now, this creates a doubt. This this creates a doubt about this state; this state which may be natural or it may be a kind of a hypnotic state. I do not know what is the truth behind this state. And also, whatever I have told you is the experience. Now the question comes whether this experience itself can be Seen. So, this can be Seen. The one who is experiencing this, the one who is explaining all this to you, this is also Seen. There is nothing which is not naked in this! There is nothing which is not naked in this. So then, who is to meditate? For whom is the silence? [Silence] Even this also disintegrates. And I want to know whether it is a natural state. From where is this doubt coming? I mean why even this question is coming up? From where is this question coming up? If this is a natural state, why even this question should come: ‘Is this Seen also?’ Is this Seen also? So, the mind just cannot go into any kind of a hypnosis, including the conviction that ‘This is It’.

A: Yes. Exactly.

Q: And I’m just seeing the arising of this question, whether this is Seen or this is not Seen; and the one who is getting disturbed by this or the one doubting about this.

A: Very good. So let’s look at where you started from. You said that ‘I tried and tried and tried to know things, and now all this knowing is dropping. I cannot know anything. All I can see is that some appearances are coming, the body is coming in front of me, the lips are moving, some words are being shared, but the sense of analyzing it, interpreting it…, all of that seems completely futile and is not happening here’. This is very good, this is very good. So this is the dropping of the mental or the conceptual knowing, through which nothing can be known actually.

Then you say that ‘There is just this Seeing of all of this, which seems so natural. The Seeing of this entire play is here and it seems very natural. And if this is natural, then why do these kind of questions arise that isn’t even this Seeing? Why aren’t you seeing within your own state of mind? These kind of questions are coming’.

So, let these questions also come and go. You don’t have to analyze them also. You don’t have to worry about ‘Why they are still coming? They should have stopped by now’. These kind of things, don’t worry about. Because the mind also comes pretending to be your ally and saying ‘See? I’m still helping you. I’m helping you to look’. It comes like this. But you don’t need this ally, even these thoughts can be allowed to come and go. Because now if you’re saying that the dropping of all conceptual knowing is happening, dropping of all mental knowing is happening, then not even these questions from the mind are relevant now. They can also come and go.

Without any effort to see anything, the Seeing is happening. This primal Seeing, this primal Witnessing which witnesses everything, is what is being called here the Knowingness Itself.

What is the difference between conceptual knowing and This Knowing? This Knowing knows even the picking up of conceptual knowing and the dropping of conceptual knowing.

So, you say ‘I don’t know anything anymore’. But you Know that you don’t know anything anymore. It is not a mental knowing. But it is Seeing that there used to be ideas here, and now the ideas are gone. They have no value. They have no strength. So this is Seen. This Seeing is also what is referred to as Knowing; the primal Knowing.

So, we can say this Seeing of Being, this Knowing of the Presence, that the Presence is Here; we use these words synonymously. But this Knowing has nothing to do with judgment, interpretation, mental understanding, intellectual prowess. It’s very good that all of this is being dropped.

Now, this Knowingness which remains is effortless; prior to any concept of effort. So allow all these thoughts to come and go. And remain in this natural-ness of not knowing anything.

Also, don’t pick up the one who is the checker or the reporter, because this checker-man is my nemesis. It’s very quick to ‘take your temperature’. Don’t take your temperature also. Drop the thermometer. Don’t know anything even about your state. Don’t make any ‘report cards’. Don’t make any correspondence about it. Just allow it to be whatever it is.

And like this, you’re very welcome to come to satsang. I don’t mind when you say that ‘None of the words are registering. I’m not able to give meaning to them’. Yes. The words are only used to point you to this natural-ness of not-knowing. You see? So you don’t have to struggle to understand the words. If they don’t have meaning, just hear them as if some music is playing in the background. You’re not trying to interpret it; nothing.

This not-knowing mentally, this conceptual not-knowing, is very beautiful.