BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

So, instead of making a replica of what I am saying, see now that what is…, just is. Now when I’m saying ‘What is’ I’m referring to the phenomenal appearance of this seeming reality. It is just appearing. These words are also just appearing; these forms are appearing. See how the mind tries to make replicas of these. Then that is what seems to get our belief anytime.

So it is happening with Radha, I suppose. [Laughing] So, laughter is coming for Radha. This is just what is. [Laughter] What is…, is as simple as that.

Notice how if there are fifty people who will look at this, five will say ‘Oh, very good’. Another five will say ‘Maybe she is just putting it on. Why can’t she just get a grip?’ [Laughter] Another ten will say ‘When will this happen for me?’ [Lots of laughter] Another ten will say ‘I hope this never happens to me’. [Laughter]

So just what is, is just what is. The appearance is that there is laughter coming in this form which is in front of me. Not even that is needed for the seeing of this. It is just seen already without interpretation. So, any interpretation of this becomes an idea or a story about this.

[Giggling]

And this is the cause of all the trouble.

[More giggling]

Such a simple thing, which is the non-acceptance of just what is…, is the root of all suffering. We cannot suffer without resisting; we cannot suffer without a concept; imagery, descriptions.

[Pause and Laughter]

So, these replicas that we value so much, you see, were in our mind. Throw it away. They are replicas of everything; our Masters, our relationships. Everything; ideas, concepts. And then what happens is that specialness comes because of it. You say ‘My replica is the best’. The Master is just what the Master is. We say ‘No, my path, my learning, my Master, my inquiry is the best’. We’re just fighting about the quality of imagination. Isn’t it? [Laughing] ‘My idea’ of what life should be.

So, as long as people are fulfilling our projections, our ideas, our replicas of these things, then we are very happy with them. ‘Oh, my partner should be like this; he should give me enough space to be as I am’ or, you know… The minute it starts going as if it is not in the direction of my projection, then they become our worst enemy.

That is why it’s very powerful actually, when we look at our expectations from the world, [to give us] our complete freedom. ‘The world should just leave me alone; let me be as I am’. But we don’t give that same freedom to the world. Can we also let the world be exactly how it is?

As long as we value these projections that becomes impossible. To give the world the freedom means for us to not give value to our ideas.

And all of you know this, (most of you have been in satsang for quite some time now), that you cannot suffer without a thought. You cannot even suffer from pain without a thought. You can experience the pain. It can even be experienced strongly, but you will experience it like a child. A child is not saying ‘I am suffering from pain’. The parents are saying ‘My child is suffering from pain’ because as long as the pain exists, the child is crying. When the pain goes, it’s absolutely fine.

My son used to have this colic pain and he used to scream, like really as if something really strong is going on, but the minute the pain would go he would just be laughing/smiling again. You see why? Because he’s not holding onto the projections of ideas.

So the purpose might have been for us to feel this deep engagement with this realm; for us to really participate in this leela/ this game. We might have created this gaming engine for our engagement and participation. And that is why we were sharing the other day also that ‘What must we do for the people who are still feeling that this is real or that is the way to live?’ And I said ‘Nothing’. Because they are enjoying the play. And as long as they are enjoying the play.., even the play of suffering, you see.

So there must be a shade of openness before we can approach them with anything. That’s why I was also was saying that…, (and I know sometimes there’s a need to try and help situations), but what to do in those cases is to just knock gently; not try to break the door down: ‘But who are you?’ Oh, no. ‘But who are you?’ [Laughing] You know? ‘Can you leave me alone? I’m really going through a lot of grief because my boyfriend left me’. [Laughing] ‘But who are you?!’ [Laughing] ‘Just do this, do this; you’ll be happy’. [Chuckles] ‘What do you mean: who am I? You’re making it worse. Please go away!’ You see? This is usually how it plays out.

But if you really feel the sense of closeness with someone, you can knock gently and say…, (you know someone is suffering), you say ‘So, what’s happening with you? Are you open to just looking at what is really going on?’ And mostly they’re enjoying their suffering so much, they don’t want to. We haven’t wanted to in the past. That’s why we’re not evangelizing anything. We have never asked the sangha to evangelize or anyone to bring people here. Because there has to be…, (especially for this kind of direct exploration), there has to be some amount of openness.

So without our replicas, who are we then? One is that…, the good news is that there is no trouble. But it’s also helpful in the contemplation of ‘What is’…, isn’t it?…, of ‘What is at the background of even this realm of appearances?’. Without our replicas it is very difficult, (it has to be said like that), very difficult to really inquire into the nature of reality unless we are at peace from our projections. It’s very difficult to contemplate or recognize the nature of reality unless we are free from our replicas or our projections; our ideas.

So, both not believing our next thought and ‘Who is aware of awareness’…, they seem like they are at different realms, (which they are; the questions are at different realms), but they actually go hand in hand because it’s easier to contemplate ‘Who is aware?’ or ‘Who am I?’ as long as we are not buying [thoughts]. We’ve gotten a little used to not buying the thoughts which are coming, you see. Otherwise the minute we get into the contemplation, the mind wants to attack and confuse and distract and contradict. All these are the very basic ways in which the mind works.

So like this we can start looking at how we have so many replicas still that we are guarding, in spite of being in satsang. And most of them are about our self-image, ‘How I should be seen, what my life should be like’. The funniest thing is that the Self has no image.

[Laughter]

That is the confusing part for the mind, isn’t it? Because the Self has no image, we are constantly trying to create one. The mind is trying to create one; to make something out of this no-thing. To say ‘Okay’. It’s like I was saying ‘Write an essay about that which is un-label-able, attribute-less, no size, no shape, doesn’t have a phenomenal appearance’. What can we really write?

Q: I wanted to share something that’s been happening. After Friday’s satsang, we spent some time in silence, and after that I started feeling very blissful and the whole weekend I gone, like, I was in heaven. Like, where ever you are, the moment I get involved in something and I stop it and just sit and I just become very blissful. And the thoughts which were appearing seemed to not be getting believed by itself, like I don’t have to actually do it.

A: Exactly.

Q: And this blissful energy I was feeling continuously throughout; a continuous stream of present-ness. It was so much that some of my friends invited me to yoga class, (once a month we go there), and I felt that I am naturally feeling this pleasant-ness as a natural state of my Being so I don’t need to do anything else. But…

A: [Chuckles] It’s the ‘but’ part that…

Q: I again feel like I’m coming back to Earth from that. And the thoughts seem to be more closer. And at the time, it seems to be automatically fading away, and not getting much attention. So, dis-believe that, you say. I just feel like the distance…, in the sense of ‘me’ and the mind, thoughts, thinking…., like a natural process it feels is happening on its own. So, could you share some light on this?

A: Yes. [Silence] The natural unfolding or the spontaneous recognition and the settling in, in our true nature, is what is happening for all of us. And satsang is another way to see that this is what is unfolding. So, like Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] said…, (We can keep saying whatever we want; I can keep saying ‘Do this, don’t do this; do like this, don’t do like that but…), ‘Ultimately it is the Satguru’s Grace which does everything’.  So, we cannot fix a cause as to why something happened like this, or why this seeming-oscillation is also happening. So, if you accept it as the Satguru’s Prasad [gift] and you enjoy it while it is on, and you trust the Satguru enough that he knows in how much doses and what has to be given when, then we will not be hard on ourselves and say ‘Okay, what did I do to lose it? or ‘What can I do to keep it?’ Both these questions are not valid, because it happened on its own. So, that which happened on its own…, (everything is happening on its own but…), this clearly didn’t have any personal intervention.

So, take it as the Satguru’s prasad. And that which can give you this prasad also knows how to do the rest of it. So, enjoy, like a little child.

Q: When and how do we acquire this so-called ability of even looking back at what has happened; of sort of going over it and trying to just crystalize it in a way that is okay with our own self-image? Because many times, we struggle. We want to keep going through something and finally put it in a way that doesn’t show us in a very shameful light. So when does this ability come..?

A: This you will have when you feel gratitude for what is here now. Let me explain that to you. You have also seen that every single thing in this realm is inter-connected. Everything that has happened in our life has brought us to this point now. And because of things like ‘the butterfly effect’ or whatever you call them, you know that if one instant was different, then this moment might not have been at all. So, if there is so much gratitude for This Now, the really we lose the ability to resent what was in the past.

Now, if our attempt instead is to look back and say ‘No, no, I was right!’ then that does not help. If the attempt was to justify what was done in the past, then that doesn’t help. It can only be that we see that there is so much gratitude for This that is Here Now that when we look back, even to the worst situations, we are grateful that all that happened in our life because it must be all of that story which lead to this chapter of the story, which is Now; or this page of the story, which is Now.

Q: The question was slightly different, Anantaji. You were talking about the 5 year old; like for them, they are completely anchored in the moment. And I don’t know if they look back. I simply wanted to know, like, when does this ability kick in? It’s one of the aspects of the mind.

A: Oh, look back. Okay. Yes. So, if you look at a five year old, he can be more resentful than a two year old, isn’t it? Or feel more guilty than a two year old. So, what happened…, (many people have studied this and Masters have also said), it’s about two-and-a-half [years old] when we start believing these mental replicas; these thoughts and these images. So, two-and-a-half and then progressively it grows.

Before that, it’s almost like you have a memory of a fish), although even that, people are saying that that is a myth; but it’s a nice myth), which is that a fish doesn’t remember more than three seconds. Something happened, somebody shouted at you; three seconds later: ‘What?’ The memory of a fish. Small children seem to be like that. They can’t remember what happened, or at least they don’t hold onto what happened a few seconds ago. It’s gone.

Q: Maybe they do, but they don’t have the tools to …,

A: Whatever it is…

Q: …but for some time, it’s simply the gathering of impressions and they sort of act it out dynamically.

A: They’re so pure that it takes a while to settle into living a life which is subject to the mind. It takes some time.

[Sangha member erupts in uncontrollable, joyous love-and-freedom laughter and everyone joins in.]

This is the funny thing, because sometimes when someone reads a transcript, or they hear sometimes when we talk about Awareness and Consciousness, [laughs], they feel like it’s so joyless; boring, intellectual stuff …, but only here have we seen, in satsang have we seen, this kind of spontaneous laughter, with no seeming cause.

As we leave the realm of thought, we leave it behind, you find That which is inherently peaceful, joyful, loving. And yet we don’t verbally stress on that aspect so much because that also becomes an object of the mind, becomes an expectation from the mind.

So, if I was to just keep saying that ‘Yes, yes, just do the inquiry and you will find so much joy and peace’ then the checker guy will keep checking for how much joy is there. When there are times of suffering, when there are times of grief, it will say ‘See? Either you are not doing it right or you are with the wrong group; joined the wrong gang. They will be offering these things that don’t end up actually happening’. So we don’t stress on this aspect of it so much.

And yet it is only in Satsang, I have found this kind of spontaneous eruptions of laughter. Of course, also spontaneous eruptions of crying [Laughs], both together. And as it is happening, the mind is saying ‘What are you doing? What are you laughing about? Control yourself!’

The mind is fearful that this expression now is continuing without any sense of mental control. So, the cries to control yourself is just the mind crying to gain some control.

A: When we look back, we say that ‘How could it have been that so much seeming-time went in this sort of regime of thought?’ Because when we start looking at it like this, you find that the realm of thought is actually very limited. It’s very limited. What can you think about nothing? Not even about no-thing; just about nothing. [Laughter]

We can have some ideas about it, but can we truly describe it? If I say ‘Write a 350 word essay on nothing as tomorrow’s assignment’ [Laughter] there is nothing that you can really write, except about some journey, some story, you’re getting to nothing. But about the nothing itself, [what can you say] except that it is nothing? Then you maybe try to pull out a thesaurus and say ‘What are all the synonymous words with nothing? It is this, it is this’. [Laughter] So, about nothing, it cannot say. What can it write about the unlimited? What can it describe about the unlimited? That which has no boundaries, has no start and end; that also is lost.

So, basically this mental engine is creating more; is creating just these images and descriptions and combinations of both. Like I was saying yesterday, the job seems to be to create a mental replica of ‘What Is’, of what is appearing, so that it can be stored in some database, memory or something. And we’ve got so used to relying on these replicas that we have started to believe that that is reality. So, the mind is creating a version which seemingly-replicates this realm; and that for most of us has been our perception of reality itself.  Are you with me?

Now, we are leaving this replica behind. All that it has been replicating as concepts, as descriptions and images, we’re leaving this behind. And (for the first time maybe) experiencing what is appearing for itself, just as it is. The mind still tries to come and say ‘Yes, yes, now I’m really doing it right. You’ve done it!’ [Laughter] It doesn’t keep quiet. Or ‘It’s not yet happening for me’. Or ‘Yes, yes, oh, now I’m really getting somewhere’. [Laughter] Or ‘When I get to this point then I’ll get somewhere’. All of these continue to be descriptions of what is appearing for you right now. So all we have to do is check on the right now, we don’t have to go to the past.

Even now you’ll see this mental engine, trying to create some imagery; like in computers we have this gaming engine that creates this environment that now seems so real. In the same way, the mind is creating a replica of what is appearing in the form of descriptions and in the form of images. And we’ve lived our life like this. We’ve lived our life based on these ideas, this imagery; and we’ve presumed that this is to know something. ‘Once I have a very solid, in detail, crisp replica of something. then I’ll feel like: oh, I got it!’

So this is a delusion, to mistake the name of something, or the form of something, as something. It’s not true. This is just the imagery and the description. And we’ve relied on this kind of knowing as a means to live our life. But if it was just like that, if these replicas were true to reality, then nobody would suffer. Because our suffering is when ‘What Is’ doesn’t match our replica what it should be. Suffering is because of that. If we didn’t have any expectation that something should be this way, then we could not suffer; if we didn’t have any ideas about how life must turn out or what our day must be like. [Laughter]

Sometimes we broaden it too much and then it seems very global; but we also have ideas just about how our day should be like! I have spoken about this, (Guruji [Mooji] has spoken about this a few times also), that if we didn’t have any idea about how our day should go, then we would not be so upset with the interruptions and with those things that don’t let us meditate or watch satsang.

It Is just what it Is.

So, this replicating of the world of appearances, as mental replicas, is the job of the mind. And it is its job, so it will keep creating this replica. But the power of belief in them rests with you. You as what? As Consciousness. So because you are That, you are appearing as that Consciousness, it is within your power not to believe this.

Q: Sometimes when I’m just walking, you know, or wherever I’m going, suddenly this thought comes; it’s like a doubt, you know? ‘What have I seen all these past one and half years? ‘What have I been seeing since then?’…, and all those things? ‘Is this the right thing; the right thing?’ (as in, ‘Have I seen it correctly?’) It’s something like that, you know? Because, this one thing, if I buy it, I’m gone. You know?

A: Yes. [Smiling]

Q: I mean, I’m on the other side of the holy world again. But, I don’t buy it. But, it’s still there at the back. You know? Because, what actually happens when this thought comes, there are other things which happens which kind gives power to this stuff. You know like ‘Oh, okay so this is happening, you know, I might be right or I’ve not got it right’. Like that, you know?

A: [Chuckles]

Q: But, this is not something you take very seriously; it’s very subtle what goes on and um…, this is one thing I want to talk to you about. There is one more thing which is very subtle…,

A: Now pause, pause. [Smiling]

Q: Okay, okay.

A: This is very good.  Yeah, I will forget this by the time we come to the second thing.

Q: No…, by then I won’t remember the second one. [Laughing]

A: [Laughing] Good, good, good. So that helps.

This is a very, very, very good point which you brought. And I feel like this is very good for all of us to look at. Because you say that, the doubt which comes is that ‘Have you really seen any of this correctly or are you just making it up?’ [Chuckles] ‘And if I believe this doubt then I’m gone, (you said), I’m gone’. [Laughing] You see?

So, let’s look at this. What has been seen is that ‘I am this Awareness which remains untouched; through the entire play of phenomenal perceiving, phenomenal playing, this remains untouched. This is what has been seen’.

Now, if someone says that ‘No, no, no, you haven’t really seen it; it’s all…, just you’re making it up’. Then what happens?

Q: Nothing happens unless I believe it.

A: Huh? Okay, so…,

Q: Nothing happens unless I believe it.

A: Yes, yes. But, even if you believe it, what happens to that Awareness?

Q: Nothing.

A: Yes. So, this ‘I’…, (which is mostly being put in the right place), the false ‘I’ is still now being held onto in our spirituality itself or in our recognition of the Truth Itself. You see?

Q: But Father, this is very subtle Father, what you’re saying; because you know, I can sense something there which I’m not able to express actually. See, I know what you’re saying. It’s like a replica of what you’re talking previously about.

A: Yes.

Q: See, this is where the sharpness comes into play basically. Because, you really have to have the vigilance to spot it. But it’s so subtle. I don’t know if I’m aware. You know? Because it’s almost like exactly the same copy, which you can’t really make the difference of. It’s like that. That’s why I’m getting this kind of …, uh…, this is kind of related to my second question but this is ‘How do you sort it out? How do you…? I don’t know.

A: [Chuckles] Yes, yes, yes, yes. This is good. It is very subtle. But as we look together, you will find that it is becoming more and more clear. And you will find that, this mind is trying to make a replica of the truth or a replica of your recognition.

And this is very good that you bring it up. Because we can look at it. Otherwise, what can happen is that there is too much fear to bring it up; because, we don’t want this replica smashed. You see?

Q: I know you’re saying this. But, I just want to go deeper Father.

A: Yes.

Q: Because I was actually thinking that I should finish it off, this part, because it’s really very subtle and keeping it dark or something, whatever.

I know you’re saying this and I’m looking. I’m looking. I don’t know if I’m looking from my mind or from that place where I have to look. It feels like I’m looking from mind or something like that. It’s not very clear.

A: [Smiling, Chuckles]

Q: I know it could be something like last time what I was speaking, so I want to, (if there is something like that), let us clear that.

A: Yes, yes. It’s very good. One thing, the mind, (the way that we define the mind), we cannot look from the mind. You see? There are many other types of teachings which say that ‘The mind is looking’ and these kind of things, but the only way that we can look from the mind, (in the way we define the mind), only means that the looking is happening, and the mind is coming in and saying ‘Okay, this is right, this is wrong’ or ‘What’s in it for me? What’s in it for me?’ You see? That is the only way in which we can use the term ‘looking from the mind’.

But actually, the mind which is itself a bundle of energies, (heart energy and similar energies like that), itself, does not have the ability to look. So, don’t worry about that. Huh?

The looking is happening which means that the phenomenal perceiving is happening; sight is happening, (inner sight or outer sight), and there is an Awareness of even this sight, There’s Awareness of this looking. You are aware that the looking is happening. And we are not so worried about the quality of the looking or the quality of the attention or the phenomenal perceiving. But our point is to see that there is an Awareness of this.

Q: Yeah.

A: You see? There is an Awareness even of this. And this Awareness remains untouched. And the recognition is that ‘I am this Awareness, prior to even sight’. This is what we are recognizing.

Now, this cannot leave us. This Awareness is what we are; therefore cannot leave. As hard as we might try to be unaware, we cannot be. Attention might leave us, in that which we call sleep state; this world might leave us, this body might leave us, everything might leave us. Even the sense ‘I Am’ ultimately is coming and going.

And yet, that which is aware even of this sense, is not coming and going. So, this is what you are recognizing Yourself to be.

Now, coming to your point which is that the mind says ‘Yes. This is it. I have recognized myself to be this Awareness’. So, this is it’s version of the replica.

Now, what happens is that something wants to hold onto this. ‘Yes. I really saw it’. And then someone comes and says ‘No, no, but your Seeing is just sounding fake’. [Chuckles] That can really…, either you want to run away from that person or attack that person. We say that ‘Oh, no, no, no’. Because, something wants to guard. We’re not guarding Awareness, are we? We’re guarding that ‘I saw it’ or ‘I have seen the real Awareness’…, you see?…, which has nothing to do with the real Awareness. The concept: ‘I have seen it’ or the ‘Badge of True Seeing’ has nothing to do with Awareness.

So, if someone wants to take that Badge away from you, then you want to defend that Badge and say ‘No, no. I really deserve it’.  Not even for the world, but for your own self; not even self, but this identity of the one who has now ‘Seen the Truth’. You See?

Because, what you expose actually is a fear that ‘What if, it turned out, that I haven’t really seen the Truth?’

So, you said that ‘If someone came and told me that…, if I [Ananta] told you that ‘You haven’t really Seen it’…., then you say ‘That would cause an immense amount of doubt and suffering’.

So, don’t guard any Seeing. [Silence] Just See for yourself, NOW. [Silence]

That’s why I’ve given you a tool like: ‘Who is aware of Awareness?’ [Silence] Then you find that it cannot be taken away, this Awareness. [Silence]

This ability to check, (instead of trying to defend something from the past), is very beautiful. So, now if Krishna himself came and told you that ‘You are just fooling yourself. You have not really Seen It’. You can check: ‘Who is aware even of this?’

The appearance of Krishna; the appearance of the fear or guilt or resentment; the appearance of this Presence ‘I Am’…, all of this: ‘Who is aware of it?’

Then you say that ‘Oh, Krishna is just playing’. [Chuckles]

Q: Or probably, I would ask ‘Are you aware?’ Ask yourself ‘Are you aware?’ also… [Laughing]

A: You would ‘Advaita Police’ Krishna [Laughing]

Q: No, Father, that is just what came. But honestly nothing went inside, what you said. But, I forgot now whatever I was asking.

A: Yes. [Chuckling]

Q: But you know, what I grasp from this talk is that it doesn’t matter what thoughts come. I mean, even if that thought comes, still even in this moment if I check ‘Who is aware? Who is Awareness?’… that’s it. You know?  I don’t have to know all the rest of the story.

A: [Chuckles] Yes. That’s true.

Q: Okay. Yeah, okay. So, that’s like…, [Sighs] that’s the good thing. But you know what is happening is…,

A: But what I do want to say, (to everyone, not just to you)…, I do want to say that that answer is very useful in this play because, as we look at that answer, we’ll see that the spiritual ego will not be formed. Because the spiritual ego is nothing but a defense of our past insights.

Q: Hmm.

A: You see? It’s nothing but a defense of our past insights. And if you find that something is defending that, know that that it is the spiritual ego.

Q: It can be Krishna also. [Laughing]

A: Yes. It can defend. It can police, ‘Advaita Police’ Krishna also. [Chuckling]

So, it’s very helpful to everyone in the Sangha to know this: That if we find ourself in the defense of some past insight…, because a Sage is not defending his past insight. He is saying ‘Let’s look together. NOW’.

So, if somebody says ‘Oh you haven’t really Seen. You’re just fooling yourself’ then a Sage would say ‘Okay. Let’s look together and see what we can find together now. I’m completely open to being wrong’. Then we look together. This keeps the freshness alive.

If you’re just relying on some label of Master or some label of a devotee or Sangha member or something like that, know that there is a possibility for the mind to come in over there and try to defend this.

How does it matter what was seen in the past? It only matters what is our living experience NOW.

So, I feel it’s a very useful question and answer; very useful question and answer. Because all of us can contemplate on this for a bit and see: ‘Are we really in defense of our progress? In defense of our Seeing? What is it that wants to defend what happened yesterday?’

If the Seeing was True, then the Seeing is Here NOW. [Silence] And in this freshness, then the ego doesn’t know how to operate.

Q: Hmm, hmm, hmm. Yes, Father. I can see what you are saying. I can clearly see that, because it’s only about the question about what we see. That’s it. It doesn’t matter what the rest of it is.

A: Yes.

Q: So that, yeah, that can’t be. I also noticed one thing, like when or whether I have to see, you know, check myself or something like that, there is resistance, a deep like, you know, like …, it’s already Seen so I don’t want to see.

A: Ahh, ahh. [Chuckles] This is very good you brought it up. Because most who start feeling like this stop coming to Satsang.

Q: Exactly.

A: You see? Because they say, ‘Okay, what are we gonna do? Inquiry? Yeah, I’ve done it’. [Chuckles]

Q: Yeah, exactly. And also, you don’t…, because it says ‘No type of inquiry is required because you’ve already seen it’…., ‘Because, you don’t have to; what will you inquire about? What is there to inquire about?’ What is that about? Honestly, these things are not for me, Father. Okay?

A: Yes. [Nodding, Smiling]

Q: And I wanted to really check, because it was going on…, this thing was going on for the past couple of days. And today I came to a point over the weekend that I have to do this kind of like, surgery, right?…, like a surgery where you keep going deeper and deeper; and to cut that open and to see what is there. That is why I really wanted to speak to you from the weekend itself.

And this is one thing, I had one more thing to ask which I totally forgot now.

A: Okay. This one is important; also this one is important. To smell all this and to expose it is very, very important. You see? Because what is happening is that there is a recognition that has happened. And I’ve said over and over again that the recognition is very helpful to be rid of all conditioning; but is not necessarily just sufficient to be rid of past conditioning. So, what happens is the same trickster mind then says ‘Now you’ve seen it. I see that ‘I’ am aware of Awareness. Now, there is nothing further to go from there. So now, why do you need to do the inquiry? You saw it’. So, one aspect is that you saw it. The inference is that therefore you don’t need the inquiry anymore.

Now, what happens is, it becomes settled in to this. ‘I saw it and therefore I don’t need to do the inquiry anymore’. So, if someone comes and says ‘But, did you really See it?’ then that one is your worst enemy. [Chuckles]

Q: Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

A: Because it was such a strong moment of recognition, that something says ‘Yes, yes. Truly I saw it’. But why is it an attack if someone comes and says that ‘You didn’t really see it’? All you have to do is check right there and then. But the mind will come and say ‘But, you actually saw it. Now, there is no need to keep inquiring’. [Chuckles]

Q: Hmm. Sometimes you buy it. This is very subtle, Father. Without knowing you buy it. Without knowing you buy it.

A: Exactly. So, this is one of the primal tricks of the ego. And, it will slowly, slowly build this wall of defense so high. If it has its way, then it builds a wall of defense so high that in a while, if it is continued like that then, (as impossible as it might seem), you might find that you don’t want to hear even my words. You don’t want to hear even Guruji’s words.

Q: Exactly.

A: You can come to this level where it says that ‘The defense of the Seeing, (which was in the past), becomes so strong that our identity has become so strongly attached to that, that even if those who we called Master earlier come and say ‘Let’s look together’…, we say ‘What is the need to look now? No, no, no. What are you trying to prove?…, that I haven’t seen it?’

No. All I’m saying is ‘Let’s look together’. [Chuckles] You see?

So, it’s very, very important that you brought these things up in Satsang, because it becomes like that. Now, you‘ve come to the top of the mountain; you’ve really arrived. And what it says is…, subtly what it’s telling you is that ‘Seeing is or Inquiry is effort’. You see? ‘Inquiry was so painful and finally ‘I Saw It!’ and I got so much relief’. So, it wants to hold onto the concept of what was seen. And then ‘Oh, I don’t really want to take the effort anymore. I know what is there, it’s Awareness’. [Chuckles]

Q: [Inaudible]

A: So, just know, (all of you, just know that), if something is bringing you back to the past Seeing and saying ‘But, you saw it. Now, you saw it! What is the point of doing it fresh?’…, but a Sage will never say ‘Don’t inquire’. A Sage would never say, ‘Let’s not look now, because I have seen it’. A Sage will always be up for the inquiry. And as you are inquiring, they are also inquiring. This is authentic, because it comes from the place of direct Seeing, right NOW.

Because if I was just vomiting out old stuff, which was seen earlier, then it would be quite boring. You see? It would be quite lifeless. It would be a lecture. It would be a seminar. It would not be Satsang.

The point of Satsang, is to come to the company of the Truth. The company of the Truth or the Presence of the Truth must be fresh Truth NOW. Not on some replica, old replica of what happened ten-years ago. You see? Must be NOW.

So, you never find someone, who is authentically sharing from the place of Seeing, saying that ‘Okay. I’m relying on that Seeing now. Now, you come to that point which I was at ten-years ago’…, or something like that.

We’re saying ‘Let’s look together. What do we find here? What do we find HERE?’

A: Anil said ‘Father when a tsunami of thoughts and emotions strike, all attention is drawn to it. It is difficult to find the center, please guide’.

Yes, yes, yes. You see, that is why we have satsang everyday Monday to Friday, otherwise we could just have one satsang, because mostly we repeat everything in that one satsang. If it was as simple as it being pointed out once and [then it’s] over, then it would be very simple; but it’s not like that. That’s why I’ve been saying that even after the recognition of the Truth it takes a while for this conditioning to become lighter and lighter you see (mostly). And these events, when they happen, we start to look at them as opportunities to shed some of the conditioning instead of looking at them as events which add to new conditioning.

So, first that attitude will start changing. When something pokes us, then we contemplate into it. We inquire into it rather than believing ideas about it. As this changes then, over a period of whatever time is natural, over that period of time this conditioning becomes lighter and lighter and lighter.

For you, you have the best Maha-mantra, which is the Maha-mantra of surrender at the feet of the Master. So, when these situations come, they’re a beautiful opportunity to surrender. Can even these be surrendered? You see? It questions…, the mind will come and question our surrender in those times. So then we see ‘Yes, because as a person I’m completely powerless, therefore only my Satguru can handle all of this event also’.

So it is said that our surrender is tested. (I don’t like to use the word tested so much because if I start saying tested then we start making report cards of our self very fast.) These events and opportunities will come for us to surrender and to inquire, and that deepening is very important. That is why so much I have been warning today about prematurely making proclamations of freedom, prematurely giving relief to the spiritual ego, because then what happens when these events come is that our identity has been so strongly attached to being ‘a free person now’ that  it causes more dichotomy. Then, even though inwardly we may be feeling belief in fear, belief in thoughts, and some suffering is coming…, but the mind is also at the same time saying ‘But you’re Free now, you cannot be suffering, you cannot be’. So, that can cause even more churning and more trouble. So, the spiritual ego is the most burdensome place to be.

So, in this way, when a tsunami of thoughts and outward events are appearing, then based on our temperament and based on what our Master has advised us, we can inquire into ‘Who is it that is suffering through this?’ Or just say ‘It is my Fathers problem’. And it doesn’t happen 100% of the time, so don’t create a report card of how well you surrendered or how well you inquired; that is also hanging on to something that happened in the past. Whatever happened, happened. The point is ‘What about Now?’

And as we stabilize more and more, as we come to satsang more and more, then you find that the attraction to these thoughts, the attraction to the tsunami of events, (as you call them), will not be so much.

But what’s very good is that we are not getting into an Advaita denial of how much things are hurting us or how much fear we are feeling because that can be a very constricted state. So as you are going, keep going; and keep surrendering everything at the feet of my Master. And you will find that everything is getting lighter and lighter and lighter.

Q: Father, can I just speak for two minutes?

A: Yes.

Q: Four months back I was on the top of the world, you know, seeing everything, nothingness and all that stuff. And for three weeks I’m not doing any inquiry, I’m not reading any book, I’m not making any effort at all other than simply surrendering at the feet of Guruji [Mooji].

A: Yes.

Q: And now I feel I have gone to the bottom of the world, you know, totally collapsed and I’m not even doing the inquiry actually. You know? I feel I’m not even at that place from where I started. I have gone much, much down; much, much down. But still I’m not doing any inquiry. I’m not reading any book. And the mind is trying to find some kind of support system. And too much is happening and there’s too much person-hood also, too much person-hood and anger and everything is coming up, but I’m still only surrendering to Master.

A: Yes.

Q: So I’m not even making the inquiry. Should I make the inquiry or not? Because I know if I make the inquiry, I’ll come of out this thing. So, should I make the inquiry or still surrender the inquiry at Guruji’s feet?

A: All that is happening. You say ‘I am surrendering. And now I’m at the bottom of the world’.  So, surrender this also. This surrender is the opposite of person-hood. As long as nothing is ‘My personal problem’ and everything is my Master’s problem, then there can be no conditioning, there can be no person. And you’re coming to this and the mind itself is coming and saying ‘But now you’re at the bottom of the world’. But I see so much more sobriety in your voice, I find so much more humility in your presence. These are very good, because what I can see is that inquiry, in your case, becomes very, very…, activates a lot of mind concepts, you see? It makes it very active and makes it very anxious; and all of these things it is giving you.

That is why I’ve been suggesting to you that, for you, that easier might be just to surrender everything at the feet of the Master. And like you said very beautifully, ‘Even the happening or not happening of the inquiry is Guruji’s problem now’. And I find that although you might be feeling you were ‘At the bottom of the rung now and I was at a beautiful place of seeing’…, this past is irrelevant. Exactly what I was talking about earlier. Because the mind will make replicas of our seeing and feed our spiritual ego.

So now I find your Presence a lot more beautiful, a lot more filled with humility and sobriety. Leave the bench mark, the report card also to my Master. It’s his problem to take you wherever he has to take you.

Therefore, I don’t really believe this report that you’re at the bottom of the rung or something, and I suggest you also don’t believe it. Because it’s a very beautiful Presence today. I enjoy very much this Presence; this humble, sober presence. So, keep surrendering like this. Don’t activate your mind. Even if those moments of activation happen of the mind, then you know that they’re surrendered at my Father’s feet. And when the inquiry is meant to happen, then that will also happen very beautifully. There is no devotee with true devotion in his heart who has not been blessed by the Gyan of the Truth.

So, I have complete faith in my Master’s Presence and I know that he is taking care of everything.

Q: Thank you so much, Father.

A: Thank you, thank you.

Q: What’s happening is…, let’s say when I’m checking right now instead of going to the direct experience, it’s going to the inference as well.

A: Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Q: This, this is where the resistance is kicking in. Second thing, when you go to the mental inference, you don’t have that (you don’t feel that) freshness and you don’t feel to look into it again. So you end up coming back.

A: Yes, exactly.

Q: And this is so intense that you forget the direct experience. Because I was watching one of Rupert’s [Spira] videos where he was talking about experience and the mental noise; what to do.

A: Yes.

Q: And it was so clear to me. And that’s why…, I mean he was telling it in a very simple way because he was describing ‘Aware’ and was describing what the thoughts were telling, but the body was giving him the direct experience. Sitting in the train and looking through the window; that was his direct experience.

A: Yes.

Q: But the mental mind was saying ‘Okay, there are so many [thoughts]. ‘The flight might get delayed, I might go late, I might do this’. So, from this I grasped what is the direct experience.

A: Very good.

Q: I was thinking that from here, it is the direct experience; but it’s not, it’s not. Right now, my direct experience is that ‘I can feel the heat, I am talking to you and I can hear violin music’. And all the things of direct experience. ‘You’re not talking right; not what you’re seeing’. This is what is coming up, you know? You don’t have to see this. That’s how I got that clarity. But as I said, (this was my next question actually), it actually kind of stopped me going into direct experience. So I was not getting direct experience. And that’s why I was not happy and that’s why I am not getting that complete satisfaction. You know? Like I’m done with this worldly thing, I am not getting total satisfaction. You know? I need to have that and I’m looking for that deep satisfaction of whatever that is, Father, and that’s why I’m going deeper, digging deeper and deeper and deeper. Yeah, I don’t know so you have to help me now.

A: Yes. It’s very good what you say, because let’s unravel even one level deeper. Why is it that many times in response to the direct recognition of the Truth, what gets formed is the spiritual ego?

Q: Yes.

A: So, what happens is that mostly before the recognition of the Truth we can say that our life has been full of suffering. In fact, many have said that it is this suffering itself which provides the momentum for the inquiry, for us to look and to come to the recognition.

Now what happens is that in the moment of recognition, there is a great lightness that comes. ‘Oh! It feels like there is no separation, there’s no boundaries, it’s so beautiful’. You see? It might even be accompanied by love and bliss and all of these things.

So, now what happens is that the mind says ‘This is it! This is the end of suffering. This Seeing that you’ve had is your self-realization, is your liberation’. The mind comes and makes all these pictures like ‘You cannot suffer anymore’. And because it feels authentic at that moment, we buy all of these ideas. And something feel like ‘I have reached the pinnacle in this world. There is nothing more to inquire into. And what did I find? I found that there was nothing’. You see?

So, now what happens is that if these concepts itself become the over-riding ‘I saw the Truth. There is nothing to do. In reality I didn’t even see anything phenomenal’…, (which is all true), but now these concepts themselves become the over-riding defenders of what was seen in the past. And it feel see like ‘Oh, there was freedom from suffering here and I must hold onto that’. These are very subtle things. You see?

Q: Exactly. That’s why I’m struggling, Father, because it’s not possible to…, you cannot keep the same …

A: These are very subtle things. So, because the relief from suffering is there, it’s like ‘I had a whiff of a drug and it felt like my life was the best!’ So then you become addicted to that drug.

So what happens is that now if anyone comes and says ‘Can we look again now at what is actually happening?’ is that there is fear: ‘Now, suppose I look now and I don’t find it? I will come back to that suffering state’.

Q: Sorry, Father it makes me laugh and laugh if somebody comes to hammer ‘Are you aware?’ [Laughing] [Inaudible]

A: [Laughs] Yes, like that; literally you will give them an Advaita defense. ‘It’s true, it’s true!’ Literally you will give them an Advaita defense. ‘Who are you to ask me? I am Awareness!’ If someone says ‘You haven’t seen it’ or ‘Can we inquire together?’ actually what is coming is that, (whether it is understood or not), something is taking it as an attack.

Q: Exactly. Looking back, it just asks ‘Okay, check yourself and tell me first whether you are Aware of this also’.

A: Yes. [Laughs] No, no, it has happened here many times where those in the sangha have had the moments of recognition. And then I said ‘Okay, let’s continue to look’. And [they say] ‘No you look. I am happy where I am. I don’t need to look anymore. Are you doubting my Seeing?’ I am not doubting any Seeing. This Seeing cannot be lost. I am only doubting the concepts that we have started to believe about ourselves.

So, together if you find that these kinds of things are taking hold, and if someone says ‘Let’s look together or do the inquiry ‘Are you really free? Have you really seen it?’ and if that is seen as an attack, it seems like ‘Oh, I’m being attacked’. And it can come from your own Master. And if even your own Masters voice is starting to sound like an attack then you have to remember that it is he who said ‘There is a need to look again’.

But because there is fear of going back to that suffering state or that seeker state, we would rather be a pretend-enlightened being, enlightened ‘person’ than go back to the pretend-seeking, because it seems like the higher…

Q: And one more thing, Father. Now it seems as if the mind has taken over the…, (I don’t know what to call it)…, it’s normal seeking, but it’s like ‘I’m going to wait for it to emerge’ or something like that. And I saw that as well and that was kind of very subtle again.  Waking is only for mind. Why does it have to reveal itself? To whom does it have to reveal? You know? So there’s actually nothing necessary, Father, you know? There’s nothing to do. And it’s not in the seeking state, which is very subtle, you know? I could have gone…, actually I was waiting all these days; because as I said previously I’m in a place where (I don’t know what it is) I couldn’t connect to anyone, even to you or any Master. I’m not able to connect to anyone. Honestly I don’t know why. And not to anything. So, then mind made up kind of an interpretation of the event, that ‘That means what? That you’re waiting for something to come up, for something to happen’. That has been happening. ‘You will become something? Or maybe, who knows?’ And even though I was not buying it; but kind of at the back was ‘I think I have bought it’ was believed. And then suddenly one day it came up to the light and ‘Yeah, I can see that’. So, this is very subtle, Father. It was Seen. I don’t know how you deal with these things; I don’t know.

A: Yes, That is why it is said that it is even more important after an awakening experience or the recognition of the Truth to keep coming to satsang. You see? Because this is the most fertile ground for ‘Rajan’ [name for ego-mind used playfully in the sangha] to be born.

Q: Exactly, exactly. That’s why also I don’t believe anything now because I know it’s not

True. It’s not true what anyone thinks; it’s never the Truth. It’s never the Truth because if somebody says ‘I’ve seen it’ then it’s not true, it can never be True. Nobody can see it.

A: If it’s about the past then it is worth nothing. It is as simple as that.

Why do I used the Rajan example? Because it’s very, very representation is the spiritual ego itself. So, what is Rajan’s voice? If you hear it, will start sounding like the spiritual ego’s voice because he says ‘Why should I bow down to Ram? I’m also God. I am also God. What is He that I am not?’ Same thing: ‘I am God’ the Advaita-mind is saying this. ‘What is the difference? Why should I listen to my teacher now? Why should I inquire now?’ How does the story end? Now, a spiritual ego (I mean)…, the normal ego just needs one whack, one cut of the head. The spiritual ego needs to be cut off ten times. So, we should keep building that; because Advaita is the best thorn to remove other thorns, but if Advaita itself gets embedded as a thorn then who will remove this thorn? It is only life which can remove that thorn.

Q: So, Father, is this also spiritual ego?

A: Which one?

Q: Whatever I am seeing, whatever I am seeing, Father.

A: You see, when you have this innocence to be able to come and say ‘Father what is this? Is this also spiritual ego?’ that means it cannot be ego. Because the ego it is not open to looking, it is not open to checking, it is not open to being wrong. You want to be right; when you want to be right, then we are stuck. So, it becomes a confluence of all these forces. ‘I don’t want to suffer anymore. I want to hang onto an image of what was seen in the past and I don’t want to shake it. I don’t want anyone to come and shake my perspective of my freedom. So, if you want to do that, I don’t want to talk to you’. It becomes like that.

Q: Ooooh. Thankfully, not that.

A: But the best is that usually what you will find, if you see it in yourself or in others, you will feel like everybody else is coming from their mind. Everybody else is coming from the mind and only you’re speaking from a pure place. [Chuckles]

Q: I don’t know if I’m speaking from a pure place but can I certainly accept the fact that others are coming from their mind and I don’t know, I’m not. See, maybe it is mind; it is also saying this, Father. That’s one thing I’ve noticed.

A: I’m just giving you the symptoms of this disease called ‘spiritual ego’. I am not saying that you’re suffering from it because you would not be here. I would have to chase you down and talk to you if it was like this. [Chuckles]

Q: Yes, Father.

Q: Papaji said to roar like a lion.

A: The only part of the sentence that is rolling is ‘roar’. Papaji said to roar like a lion; not to roll like a lion. [Laughter]

Q: The silence is so…

A: The silence is what?

Q: The silence is like a …

A: Like a roar?!

Q: Can be like that?

A: Yes. You want to roar?

Q: No, no, no; I want to scream-roar.

A: That is not the roaring, you see. Many times it can happen that…

Q: I do that in the street. [Laughter]

A: You do that in the street? You roar?

Q: This lady just passed me and so casually she could have been knocked…

A: When you were driving the car?

Q: Yeah.

A: You roared at her?

Q: Yeah, I roared. Because I nearly killed her.

A: Then she should be roaring at you. [Laughter] When you almost killed her, then you roared at her? [Laughter]

Q: She was so casual walking with her partner. [Laughter]

A: And then you remembered Papaji? [Laughter] A justification for roaring? [Laughter]

Q:  You know, I was ashamed of the fact that…, the animal comes out. Because anything comes out for you see what you are, actually.

A: So let’s look at this one. Everything comes out for me to see what I am. Ok, so now all of this; everything has come out. What do we find ourselves to be?

Q: Just the Seeing, there is only Seeing. There is actually only Seeing.

A: There is actually only Seeing.

Q: Yeah, that’s the truth. Everything else is, you know, a story. I was saying to you on Guru Purnima day…, a lot of muck came out at your feet. I was so ashamed. A lot of muck! I was so ashamed. I cringe at that actually. Wow. Why does it happen? It’s Guru’s grace, isn’t it?

A: Yes. Because we lost the child in us. There is a child in us and everyone said ‘Grow up, grow up, be responsible, take it like a man’. Especially for the men, you have these kind of things. [Laughter] And what happens is that, instead of surrendering as children. And what happens with children? They come and complain to their parents and cry and say ‘This happened to me in school, and this teacher was bad to me or these students, they bullied me’. There’s a release; it’s not held on to and they cannot hold a grudge.

What happens is that as we kept losing this innocence, we kept taking it on to ourselves, so then they became our conditioning, our ideas. And when we meet our guru then we become like children again. And then there’s too much like that to go and dis-communicate. [Laughter]. You see? So, it all comes out as one big mess of crying, laughter, tears, everything. So our child-like nature comes back when we meet our master.

Then if you become like children, then what happened, happened. It’s gone. Now you came here and you released it also. Now is it gone?

Q: The story is going.

A: So this ability becomes…, not even an ability; this becomes more natural for us to surrender and not to pick it up. You see, the moment you came, I knew that something was bothering you. Because it was…, if you were to replay the tape of just yourself, you will see that it was…, something was fighting for your attention. So, it was like this; your eyes were literally like this. [Moving his eyes from side to side rapidly] Because some of your attention started to come here and some of that was still replaying that; what happened, what you should have done, or whatever the past was. So attention was being distracted and I could see it in your eyes itself. That’s why I looked at you for a couple of minutes so it could settle. And then as it started to settle, then maybe something came to say ‘Okay, I’m going to expose this or say it loud’. You find it’s like this; you can see even in the outward expressions, you can see what is the state of the inward state. Now how is it?

Q: [Silence]

A: Something is still processing this. If you were a five year old and you had a spat with someone then would it still be…, would it still have some way to…, will you still be feeling guilty about it, will you still be wondering or trying to justify it? It is mostly gone.

Because we have ideas about how we should be, how people should behave, how I should be behave, as if this universe is running based on that. And we ourselves say that ‘When it happens, at that moment, it just happens. So, all these ideas we have about ourselves, throw them aside, then at least not the second punch from the mind; which is the knockout punch really. Because what happened, just happened. It is this guilt or resentment [i.e., the second punch from the mind] that really knocks us out. (Not really but seemingly-knocks us out. [Laughter] Isn’t it?

Q: I will be at peace and totally relaxed and everything is fine and joyful; suddenly I get a call from my home and then the whole world is upside down. Then there is only pain, crying, all kind of things come up. Is this also part of the mind which is happening? Because why does all this happen? I was happy until the morning; and my dad called and he was telling me his story what was going on at home. I don’t believe it, not believe it; there’s always something happening, you know. So, is that also part of the mind thing? Because sometimes if it doesn’t work in that way, it maybe can distract me this way; something like that?

A: Yes. If there is suffering, then there is belief in the mind. So, instead of feeling bad or guilt about that, what we can do is to inquire into the identity which still remains strong. Because belief goes only to that which we are identified with. And that which we are identified with is our identity. So, instead of looking at it as something bad which happens to you, look at it as an opportunity to inquire.

So, when you say ‘When my dad says…’ or something, ‘When my family says…’ then inquire into that identity of ‘Who is the daughter? Who is the one that wants a particular way for the family to be?’

Q: Oh, yeah. I know. Something is there which is still wanting them to be happy. But is that wrong to have a wish that your family should be happy; your parents and…, you know? Is that something wrong, Father? I don’t think so.

A: This is a good question. So, what you can do is bless them to be happy, and know that the outcome is all up to the Satguru or up to God, (whatever you have faith in, you can say).

One is that because we are attached to the outcome of what we want; only then we suffer.

Which child will not want their parents to be happy? Nothing wrong with that. But when we are attached, it must be because ‘I think they must be happy’. You see? That causes suffering for us.

So, we can bless them; we can pray for their happiness. Nothing wrong. Although more and more you’ll find it more and more difficult to pray for specific things.

Q: Exactly.

A: You’ll kind that everything you know is your Master’s grace anyway. So the prayer usually will not arise in a specific way. But even if it arises in a specific way, a prayer is not a business deal; a prayer is a petition.

Q: Yeah. I can see that. I can see that.

Q: There has been an Awareness of observing all the phenomenon here that happen, or the jealousy or the fears or whatever. And then there has been silence. But somehow the silence just isn’t left alone somehow. If I am sitting in silence, which I enjoy now, there is almost like this other voice; very negative talk. It’s an old, old, old, old voice. It’s like I am 64 and a day now, right? I just turned 64, so it’s about 64 years old, this voice. It’s really negative. Certainly was not my voice; somebody else’s voice, right? So, it’s been really unpleasant to notice this voice. ‘Who you talking to? Who is talking, first of all? Sometimes I remember to ask ‘Okay, who is talking?’ And its like ‘Well, nobody is talking’. But it doesn’t shut up the voice; it hasn’t cut off the head of the voice yet. So then there is this resistance to sitting in silence. Like I don’t want to sit in silence if that voice is going to show up again. You know what I mean?

A: When we look at silence itself, there is one silence which is the absence of phenomenal noise so to speak. It’s just quiet out there, sensorally it’s quiet, inwardly there is no voice of the mind bothering us. That is one kind of silence. But actually that is not the important silence, although it is helpful.

The true silence is the silence of your own Being; the silence of even this Being. As we get used to this silence, there is no noise in Awareness.

And if Awareness is our predominant Self and the dynamic aspect is just movement upon it, then the dynamic silence also helpful. And this realm really doesn’t touch the silence that is Awareness itself.

So even when the mind is trying to get your attention, is being unpleasant, is being nasty, whatever it is being…, the point is to just see whether something is losing its silence in what we really are. As Awareness, is something becoming un-silent? Is that even possible?

So, in fact, you can go as far as to say that the first noise is the creation of this dynamic sense ‘I Am’ itself.

This unchanging Silent-Awareness; the first seeming-vibration or noise is this primordial sense of Being itself. Because nobody can say that in sleep state there is noise, in deep sleep there is nothing at all. So what was the first flutter?

This first flutter was the primordial vibration of Being, Consciousness, I Am. And then all of that this movement started. So, from that perspective of Awareness, all of this is vibrating, is dynamic.

But even then, with the creation of all of this noise and potential for noise, even then nothing moved. Nothing became noisy for Awareness itself.

That is the important silence. And as we get more and more accustomed to this, less and less fearful of this empty-feeling silence, this no-thing feeling silence, then it doesn’t matter if we are in a market place; either outside or if our head is a market place of noise. Then it doesn’t really matter so much.

Actually our attraction is there for this noise because there is a fear of the emptiness which Awareness seems like. And once this fear of no-thingness starts to dissolve, then there will not be so much attraction to this noisy environment, either to this seemingly-within-our-heads or outside this.

Q: While you were talking, I noticed that there was a noise inside that was not letting me hear you and I was thinking ‘Okay, I am going to have to listen to this later’. But what I just heard, it kind of clicked, that this negative chatter is there because there is too much fear to be silent in this emptiness.

A: Let’s say that the negative chatter is believed, or seems to have some power still for us, because there is an urge to go to this rather than accept the emptiness or the no-thingness of what we are.

Q: That makes sense. How do you free yourself of the fear of being in the Aware state?

A: This is what satsang is for. All of this is for that.

So, our inquiries, our recognition of who we are, our marinating together in this, my reminders that the Satguru is always with you…, all of this is for this. So, not believing our thoughts, experimenting and seeing that nothing falls apart without going to the mental chatter, and more and more recognizing that ‘I am this non-phenomenal in which all phenomenon arises’. So this actually is the whole reason for satsang, for you to get used to this emptiness and nothing-ness.

In fact, I would go as far as to say [satsang is] is to be with this and to see that, contrary to what the mind is saying, (that ‘This is boring, this is so not getting you anywhere’ all these thought patterns), if we just allow them to come and go then we will find that the true purpose of love, peace and joy, (which is to be in service to this unassociated Being), will start to reveal itself. There is nowhere for love and peace to go, than to be at your feet. But not at your feet personally; the feet of the divine which You are.

So, when the pretence of personhood is dropped then you find that all beautiful energies like wonder, amazement, love, peace, joy…, they are just here and there is no concern about them being here or not. There is no expectation for it, yet you see that there is nowhere for them to go but to be at Your feet.

Q: There is a lot of that; a lot more. And it is the delightful. And when it is there and I am in it, I am like ‘Ahh, I want this every second of my life’. And then the other antsy takes over my body and goes ‘Aargh’. And I start feeling very negative and I have to work awfully hard not to feel negatively.

A: The thing is, (like you mentioned the word ‘intention’ earlier), I find that these beautiful energies are not in service to any intention, they are actually in service to our un-intention, our emptiness; they are un-association with any concept. So even the intention that ‘It should always be like this’ actually is un-productive in a sense. Because intention implies person. Intention implies separation. God is not, Consciousness is not, projecting this world on the basis on an intention as we understand it. It is not a personal intention, it is not personal desire. In fact, it is very beautiful to look at this and maybe we can digest for a minute because this topic came up about intention.

It is often said that we experience the fruits of our actions. We are talking karmicly now, in the laws of this realm, (which we rarely do). But the word ‘intention’ reminded me that there is something there also that can be spoken about, but that fails even the most basic contemplation; that fails even the most basic contemplation because the action of a doctor and a criminal could be the same, of a surgeon and a criminal could be the same. Because the surgeon is using a knife to cut some one, (it’s a gory example but…), the surgeon is using a knife to cut some one and also the criminal is using a knife to cut someone. Therefore, it can’t be that both of them experience the same fruit, although their actions were the same seemingly. Therefore in this basic inquiry the concept that ‘You experience the fruit of your actions’ fails immediately.

Then we could say that ‘We experience the fruit of your intentions’. The doctor is intending good, he is helpful and therefore in this realm it seems like it plays like they experience the fruits of their intentions.

What is said is that ‘Once you come to the realization of what You Are, and therefore you come to un-associated Beingness by dropping of the conditioning, it is also the dropping of this law of karmic ‘What you sow is what you will reap’. The law of karma itself seems to be in operation in this realm. But we are not too concerned about it here.

But if it is on the basis of intention, of what it operates as, then we also notice that it is not possible to have an intention without carrying a belief. We cannot intend for something unless there is a belief about something. So can there be an intention that ‘I will make it big-time tomorrow’? Or can there be an intention to change our life? Or can there be an intention of any sort, without there being an underlying belief?

So, as we are coming to the end of belief, as we are coming to the end of conditioning; predominantly, (there is no 100% in this). We are also coming to an end of intention.

So, (either) as we use surrender ‘Everything belongs to my Father. It is his problem’ …, therefore we cannot carry an intention for ourselves. So surrender is a dropping of intention itself.

(Or) when we come to the inquiry to see that there is nobody here that can have an intention or a goal or an ambition of any sort…., as we are coming to a dropping of belief, then we find that there is this emptiness of concepts, of conditioning. And that is why traditionally it is been said in India that those who come to unassociated Being are the only ones who transcend their karma or their karmic patterns.

And often it is also said that ‘In the Presence of the Satguru, your karma gets cut’. If you were born in India, if you have been exposed to Indian spirituality, you would have heard things like this; that you can put an end to your karmic cycle in the Presence of a Satguru. But it cannot happen without the sense devotion, surrender or inquiring into ‘Who is here to carry a particular intention?’

So, I feel it is a beautiful digestion for us to be able to look at this for us to see that as we remain empty then we are also not in the realm of this karmic intention. Or at least, as Bhagavan [Ramana Mahashi] said, that we are not creating any new karma, we are just experiencing, (or the body is just experiencing), the fruit of its old karma. (Okay, let’s not get too much into it, but), the old pool of karmic tendencies which is still there is being experienced by the body, but there is no new pool of karma being created without new intention or new belief.

Q: And there is an experience of this terror sometimes, just pure terror. And I have been trying to practice just sitting with it.

A: Take an example of when this terror has come.

Q: When I am home and it is in the evening; when I am done with what I need to do for the day. And then I think ‘Now what?’ And I think maybe I will just be in silence, I will inquire, I will practice my Advaita. [Laughter] And I sit. And it’s almost like gasping. And there is a very strong fear about being alone, and I am alone. And sometimes I am aware of it and sometimes I am not, but mostly when I am looking at being silent or I don’t have a specific activity planned out in front of me, then it comes.

A: This is exactly what we have been talking about, which is this fear of our own Self in a way. You see, this fear of our own Self…, because it is no-thing in the non-phenomenal sense.

And all of us, if we are interested, can go through a transcript which describes the difference about no-thing and nothing. I feel it is an important distinction. It is there in the group, if somebody wants to read it, it can be very useful.

Because it can be a bit confusing. Because the mind only understands ‘nothing’. You see? And it’s [mind’s] interpretation of the no-thing that we are discovering ourselves to be is that ‘Oh, it’s just nothing. I am nothing’. It will not be a great discovery, because who wants to discover that we are nothing?

Q: Ah, that doesn’t feel good.

A: Nobody wants to discover that. But there is a great distinction between the phenomenal sense of nothing, which means it is the absence of all phenomenon; and the no-thing we are discovering ourselves to be. Because this is the discovery of the non-phenomenal potential of everything to come. Because everything comes from this no-thing. And yet, it is not limited by just the potential for something to come.

Sometimes these things are better consumed in the written form; so when you read, you’ll see this is easier to understand.

But what I’m simply saying is that this no-thing, which we are finding ourself to be, although has the potential for everything to come, yet is unlimited, is not constricted only as this potential; it’s not just a mere potential. Because even when the potential manifests into this living Universe, dynamic Universe, this living Consciousness which projects this Universe, even with the birth of Consciousness and this realm, this Awareness continues to be complete. It is not lacking anything. It did not disappear because of the potential manifested into something. It still remained untouched. That is why it is the eternal, unchanging, unmoving Self. So, it is a beautiful, pristine no-thing which is very different in quality to the phenomenal idea of nothing.

The mind cannot fathom this. The mind says ‘Oh, what’s the point? You’re just discovering yourself to be nothing’. So the movement from here has been to clarify some of these points which get in the way; they bring a lot of fear. ‘I don’t want to discover myself to be nothing. I don’t want to be nothing. The whole game has to be something; has been to be something’. But what you’re discovering is that you’re much beyond this ‘something’…, not much lesser than this ‘something’. The mind will say ‘You’re becoming nothing which is the lesser than something’. But what you’re discovering is that You are much greater than ‘something’…, the supreme greatness, much greater than ‘something’. And this will be Your actual living discovery, that you are greater than ‘something’.

The second confusion that we’ve been looking at very directly is that for many of you, you are coming to the realization of the Self, in the form of the recognition of Awareness. But very quickly the mind has made it ‘as if’ it is separate from I. On discovering Awareness, many times I hear, (not you, specifically), in the sangha’s reports, I find that we’re referring to Awareness as ‘It’. And saying ‘Okay, nothing really happens to Awareness, but…’ And the instant I hear that ‘Oh, yeah, nothing really happens to Awareness, but…’ that means that what you’re really saying is ‘Yeah, I recognize that nothing is happening to Awareness, but what about me?’ [Chuckles] You see? So, there’s a dichotomy which is being created because we speak about Awareness in that way; between ‘I’ and ‘Awareness’. But the discovery is that this ‘I’ at its very foundation, at its very root, IS Awareness. See, the I that remains IS this Awareness.

That’s why I’ve offered you all this question: Who is aware of Awareness?

Who is aware of this Awareness? And in this question then we will merge the sense of Awareness, the recognition of Awareness, with the ultimate reality of the Self, which is ‘I’.

Then it will not seem to be a distant experience. Because the mind’s tricky nature, after the recognition of Awareness, tries to sell Awareness to you as if it was an experience. But it is not really an experience. It is recognition of what You really Are!

Because if it was not the fundamental of What I Am, prior to even the sense ‘I Am’ then there would be no point in inquiring, actually. If we were just moving towards another experience then there would be no point. We’re coming to Self-recognition! …, not the recognition of an experience. Self-recognition which, by definition, means ‘I’ recognition. I’m coming to the recognition of what I truly am.

So, these two aspects, I feel are very, very important. And this can be the total integration of our recognition with the letting go our false conditioning, because it is Seen that ‘I’ truly is this Awareness Itself.

Then we will not flip-flop so much between levels. And when we do also, it will seem to only be conversationally. What do I mean by that? I mean that our understanding of ourself, (which is Understanding with a capital ‘U’…, not a mental understanding, remains as Awareness. And yet, in the world, there can be a very natural, spontaneous way of living. So, this is not a flip-flopping. You see?

In a sense what I’m saying is that because we recognize ourself to be Awareness, we have recognized ourself. It doesn’t mean that we go to a restaurant and we’re saying that ‘Awareness, which is now playing as this dynamic aspect as Consciousness, which has given itself the label ‘me’ would like to have pasta for lunch’.  [Chuckles] You see? ‘I would like pasta for lunch’ will do conversationally. This is a flip-flopping of the recognition of what I really Am. It is just a spontaneous, very natural way of living in the world.

But what I mean by ‘flip-flopping’ is that the moment of quiet and the moments of mediation, the moments of inquiry, we see ‘Yes, yes, Awareness. I Am This Awareness’. But very quickly, the mind comes back and says ‘That was a very nice experience for you. You should do more. You should do more of that’.

Q: Yes, yes. It does that.

A: But this ‘you’ immediately that is bought is not Awareness anymore. That is why when we ask ourselves ‘Who is aware of this Awareness?’ we will see that ‘I’ and ‘Awareness’ are one. And then the mind will not be able to sell you another story of ‘I’ for whom this was also an experience.

Q: I’ve asked that question; lately I’ve been following in the groups…, ‘Who is aware of Awareness?’ and when I’ve asked that, it’s clearly Awareness that’s aware of Awareness, or I. And it lasts for about three seconds. [Chuckles]

A: That will get longer and longer.

Q: That’s good.

A: It will be normal inquiry in this way. It won’t be like we’re constantly asking ourselves ‘Who is aware of Awareness?’ Just that, once the pointer of ‘I’ has shifted from pointing to the personal sense of ‘I’ to this unlimited Awareness Itself, then we don’t have to keep reminding ourself or inquiring more and more. But it is just That which has been mis-identified is now getting truly identified with the real Self.

That’s why the ‘I’ is very tricky. My Master [Mooji] used to call it ‘The chameleon I’ because it can be a label for the very personal ‘I’…, ‘I’…, this personal sense of ‘I’. It can be used for the body, it can be used for the mind, it can be a label for our attention, for our emotions. I can be a label even for Consciousness, ‘I Am that I Am’…, a label for Consciousness. And it can also be this ‘I’ which is even before ‘I Am’. One of Guruji’s [Mooji] books is called ‘Before I Am’. That is the reality of What You Are.

So, this ‘I’ is the chameleon ‘I’ and it has been mis-identified with this floating, surface level ‘I’ of the person, now comes to the reality which is the back-drop, the unchanging You, is what you are discovering.

In the discovery of this, then you will find that you’re not so much bothered by the checker guy and the reporter guy…, ‘This is the way it happened to me. This is what is going on’. All of this will just seem like some surface-level activity. But you remain the unchanging.

A: Yesterday actually some of us were also sitting and someone was sharing how it seems like there is some fluttering going on or there is some fear coming or something like this. And we looked at it and we saw that actually, just like the ocean, at the surface level on the ocean, there is always this neediness; the waves falling up and down. It can seem very turbulent at times and sometimes it can feel like very quiet.

But as we start to go below the surface, (some of us have seen these videos of underwater), it all seems so still. The water, although it is the same water which is wavy at the surface, as we go deeper and deeper, at the ground level then we find that it is very still. It becomes very pristine and beautiful. And that, the majority, the predominance of the ocean is not at the surface. It is below the surface.

Now because something is wavy our attention seems to go to that which is changing so that seems to get a lot of our attention. But if we go just 1 millimeter below the surface of this phenomenal existence, what do we find? We find a great stillness…, unmoving because all these changing is happening only at the surface level; and because it is movement it seems attractive to the mind and to our attention. So, all that is needed is to just look below the surface and see what is the underlying sense of Existence below this overlay of movement. What is it that it is based upon?…, this sense of existence which is so beautifully un-changing, (and therefore to the mind very boring). It is so beautifully un-changing, and the mind enjoys change. It is changeful by nature itself

So, to come to peace actually is not very difficult. Because all we have to do, (and I am not speaking spatially, but I am just using a term), all we have to do is come 1 millimeter below what is happening at this surface level of movement; movement of thought, movement of emotion, movement of these phenomenal appearances. Substratum gets missed because it is ‘un-changing’.

And as we get used to this ‘un-changing-ness’…., more and more in satsang we have been focusing on that backdrop on which the ‘changeful’ is happening. Just the other day I was saying ‘What about this space in which all these movements and emotions and thoughts are happening? Can we bring a little bit of attention to that space?’ We find that, as we do that, we see so much more beatitude, peace. Although at the surface level, still movement might continue, but we find that predominantly you remain untouched and unchanged through all of this

So, I have been noticing recently that for long time we have been focused on ‘belief’ and how it is the ‘belief in thought’ which leads to this sense that we are personal in some way. ‘I am a person’ can only be a concept a belief. Now little bit of attention is also going in satsang on the power of attention itself.

Q: Sorry, power of attention? Or intention?

A: Attention.

So we see that this attention has presumably been operating in the sense of operating as is if is been in personal control, (although it never has), only because it has been accompanied by this thought pattern saying ‘What’s in it for me? What’s in it for me?’

So wherever our attention goes, we seem to have focused on that, which seem to have offered something for the personal sense of ‘me’. And not too much attention has gone into that quiet…, stillness.

If we just see that if we are

able to put our attention into that which is unchanging, unmoving…, which is right here actually. It is the predominant part of our Existence. It is not the fluttering which is the predominant part, but the unmoving space of Being. And that is just here.

And what is the easiest way to do this is not to fight with our attention. That’s an important part of this. Because it can seem like we can get into a war with our attention, saying ‘Don’t go there, go here’. Best is to just leave it alone; just let it be. And we can try it right now: just let it be. It can seem to move about for a bit. but naturally comes to a resting.

Actually even more fun is if you try to drop your attention. Don’t have attention. Just drop it, leave it behind.

You see you cannot do it. It is just here, in service to you. You find this beautiful play happening with attention.

And more and more you will find that attention will stabilize in this unchanging, unmoving. And for a while the mind will find this boring as if you lost some excitement in your life, but you find that nothing has been lost. There is a deeper sense of peace and joy which comes on its own.

I’ve just been contemplating very deeply on the sense of lack, that there’s something…, (and I know these are quite inherent thoughts for all of us, otherwise we wouldn’t be on this path)…, but there’s such an inherent lack, like a feeling of ‘Something’s missing’. And when I do the inquiry, of course…, [Silence] there’s just this resting and peace. But as soon as I’m in my daily activities, just this sense of like ‘I’m not enough, I’m not good enough, I’m…’ And it’s like the thoughts come and they’re seen and they’re not believed, but yet the body is just reacting in such an extreme way as if they are true, to the point where that all I can do is lay down and just.., it’s so extreme and it.., and I’m really, really looking at these feelings in the body and letting them play out.

A: Yes.

Q: It’s…, (I don’t know how to describe it), it’s just this inherent sense of…, yeah ‘I’m not good enough’ and…, yeah?

A: Yes. So, see if you can find this sense of lack now, the feeling of being unworthy or not enough; and also see if you can give your attention, not just to this sense of lack but also to that space in which this sense is appearing. Does the question make sense?

Q: [Silence] So, I’m looking for this sense of lack, which is a feeling in the body. And this space in which it is in is unaffected by that feeling in the body.

A: Yes. Also explore this idea that feelings are happening within the body. (I know it sounds ludicrous when I say things like this). But just see whether the body itself is not just sensed as a collection of sensations or feelings. And see if you can bring some attention to that space, within which the sensations of the body itself are being experienced.

Q: Yeah. I mean it…, (and this happens every time when I look like this), it’s not an issue, it’s not a problem, it’s all just flowing through. But in daily life when there’s not this space to sit for hours and contemplate, it’s like, it just grabs me; when I’m driving or something, just this complete energy of darkness pulls, just pulls. And there’s no space to sit. I mean, right now all I want to do is sit in meditation, lay down and just completely disappear into this space of just peace. But there’s life to be lived. But right now, there is just this feeling of wanting to just completely disappear. And I feel like this personal energy that is here is gotten down to the core of itself and it’s just realized it doesn’t exist. And now all of the darkest, deepest thoughts and energies are coming up to play. And I feel like ‘I’ the identity is actually…, I do feel like I’m dying, like really dying. And it’s so intense.

A: So, one advice is that as you’re doing this contemplation, let’s not have any purpose behind it. Let it not be for the purpose of getting rid of any energy or to push anything aside; just for itself we’re exploring [the] dimensions of this that everything seems to be appearing and disappearing. Don’t worry about the future or what happened in the past. [Silence] And in this exploration, if the sense of separate identity has to die or has to weaken or has to become stronger, whatever has to happen to it, don’t be concerned by it. You stay with the exploration.

[Silence]

Q: Father, here, Here, nothing is wrong. Here everything is, there’s absolutely…,

A: Okay, yes. The mind will offer you something. It will say that ‘It is possible to leave here when you’re engaged in day to day life?’ Explore that possibility from here; that it can actually happen. Can you actually leave this space of here?

Q: No.

A: Appears within this here-ness, isn’t it? Even the life that has to be lived is only appearing within this space of Being, this space of here-ness. [Silence] Even if identification happens, does something really switch?

Q: No, not in reality. But the attention will go to those extreme emotions, energies and pain in the body.

A: Yes.

Q: And thoughts.

A: Yes, the way that these emotions and these thoughts get stronger and stronger, get more and more energized, is when we have the sense that they should not be, or they should now not come, or even the idea that ‘I should not identify with them’ actually energizes them. Is it possible…, (just checking from the here and now, not predicting about the future), is it possible to let everything just be without even labeling anything as dark or bright?

Q: [Silence] It already is.

A: Yes. So this sense that the difference in state or states should not happen when I’m in satsang verses outside, when I’m meditating, or inquiring or in the Presence of the Master, or when I’m in my day to day life…, if we had no idea about how it must go and what must appear or not, is that a possibility?

Q: [Silence] It is, but it’s not happening like that.

A: Yes. [Laughs] That’s okay. What is happening is happening. It’s fine. You see, my job in this role right now is I’m supposed to give some advice, [Laughs] and that advice gets imbibed or not, absorbed or not. And it’s all just Grace and it’s all a part of the play; and you see it, isn’t it? When we’re able to see it like that, actually these things cannot have such power over us. In fact, I don’t feel they have as much power over us. Even that which we call the dark energy or gloominess or thoughts about it, they really, in reality, (you yourself said that), ‘Nothing really changes’. But this play of it seeming like something changes, the play of identification or not, that has to be wiped out; according to your own Grace. According to the Grace of Consciousness it will dissolve ultimately.

Until then I will keep sharing these things with you, [Laughs] and we will play this game as long as it has to go on. But even the seeming-checking, even the seeming-separation, even the seeming-identification, all of that; all of this is appearing but you remain untouched. Isn’t it?

Q: Totally untouched.

A: Yes.

Q: [Silence] So much attention is going to this sensation of just like…, ‘Urgh’. [Gestures a contraction] [Laughs] I don’t even know the word for it, it’s just like this…,

A: [Silence] Yes, but what I’m hearing from you is that attention is going…, but you said right in the beginning that you’re not really believing the thoughts about it, you’re not really buying the interpretations about it. At some subtle level it might be happening, but that’s fine as long as not too much of this interpreter, not too much of these conclusions are being bought. It’s just playing the way it is playing. But as long as the pretense of person-hood is not being injected into the situation through our belief in ideas, then already it must be intense. It might seem very intense because your attention is going so strongly to that. But it doesn’t have that personal intensity, it doesn’t have the personal own-ness that ‘I must do something about it’.

Q: But it does at the time, though, because the attention is so strong. And this is what is so the one two-punch. So, so frustrating, upsetting, annoying, is that I know that these thoughts (that are appearing on the conveyor-belt), I know that these thoughts have no basis, have no truth to them. The body is reacting as if they are true; now I know that they’re not. Yet there is this whole kind of bodily reaction happening. And then the one two punch is ‘You know this isn’t true, why are you reacting like this?’ And then the identity is formed in that.

A: Yes, if you can take out the idea of cause and effect from this, and you only look at Consciousness as the One cause of all appearances, then that will make it a bit lighter. Because there can be a sense that this thought comes, you see; but what is a thought? Thought is a bundle of energy, it’s a ball of energy. And there can be a sense that this thought creates some sensation in the body, some intensity or something.

That energy is like two waves on the same ocean, but the mind tries to make a story out of it saying ‘Because this wave came and this wave came…’ And usually it will try to find some patterns and play where these energies, where these energetic movements, flow together. It will try to say it was ‘because of this’…, though that this is happening to the body. But actually, all of this has one cause which is Consciousness. The thought coming, the body reacting, and the second punch is also Consciousness. So, everything is just energetic patterns appearing on the screen of Consciousness itself, having only one cause which is the light of Consciousness itself.

So if we stop giving them so much credit and so much strength that ‘A thought is doing this then this is what’s happening because of thought’. It’s not it’s just all energy. The source of energy is only Consciousness; all is ultimately Consciousness itself.

So thought comes, an energetic reaction comes in the body, then another thought comes; all of this is just energetic play of Consciousness. When we remove this causality from it, (that this causes this, and ‘Is there a way for me to break the pattern?’)…, if we just stop giving thoughts any credit at all, then that itself a very good way to break the pattern.

Q: Yeah, and when it gets so strong, when these…, when this thought and bodily reaction…, when it becomes so strong and I do have to literally lay down or sit down, (because there’s no way to function with it), and there’s and inquiry happening or there’s just a complete seeing that there’s this belief in the mind; it all just disappears, just completely disappears, and there’s this deep sleep state. I don’t know what I mean; it’s just like being in deep sleep completely and there’s nothing wrong, there’s absolutely nothing wrong at all. It’s just like I want to just spend as much time there as possible. But as soon as I have to come…, as soon as there’s no need to be there anymore or there’s just a natural movement to get up, then ten minutes later there will be this energy that reappears and re-identification that reappears and it seems like life is just pushing me to inquire because it’s so painful to in the world at the moment.

A: Yes, yes. There’s nothing wrong with that. As soon as there’s a sense of a ‘me’ that can inquire, we must inquire. And many times it seems that life pushes us into these situations. For you, it is these energetic things that are happening; for others it could be life events, life situations. For many it can be a combinations of various things. For you, what it is doing is pushing you to the inquiry and there’s nothing wrong with that. What is happening sometimes is that the instant you start the inquiry it becomes so clear, isn’t it? It becomes so clear there is no ‘me’ anymore. And when you seemingly stop, it seems like ‘Oh, I better inquire because that is my only refuge’. It can seem like that. A bit of oscillation like this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Q: But I am grateful for this; although it’s been absolutely horrific because it actually bought up the inquiry of suicide and really, really inquiring into leaving the body. And I just saw over the weekend at the yoga festival that even leaving this body, it would just be…, not even from a here to a here [Gesture] because there’s literally nowhere for me to go; there’s nowhere, I’m totally, like this: I’m not…, this absolutely horrendous period has really…, has been so beneficial in the way of like…, I’m totally not scared of death at all. It’s more like fear of identification and fear of feeling all of these really human, human emotions that feel so big and so…,

A: Yes, yes. One sense that will get lighter and lighter is that ‘I am enclosed in this body’. So, it can seem like ‘Oh I’m going to drop this body and it will be light’. No. Actually, many bodies we experience. If there’s an end to this body, another body instantly appears. Because I don’t feel that by dropping the body the potential for all this energetic creation will stop. You see? So, it doesn’t really help in any way to buy into that idea.

Also this sense of being enclosed into the body, that we have looked at; and actually it is this body which is a minuscule aspect of me, a minuscule aspect of my dynamic appearance, isn’t it? Because when we try to find our boundaries, we don’t find the enclosure. We find the body which is enclosed in an aspect of ‘me’ but I don’t find that this Being is enclosed in anyway.

Q: I’m looking now, and the Awareness that is inside the body is totally just the same as the Awareness that can sense the skin on the outside of the body. There is no difference, no difference.

A: So, the body usually gets the credit or blame, (whatever you like to call it), for no reason. Because the basic sense that Consciousness is the root of all energetic movement; once this is seen and understood, then I don’t feel that you will be giving all that credit or blame to the body.

Q: It’s not the body, it’s not the body.

A: It’s not the body, yes.

Q: [Exhales]

A: [Laughs] So, what is the discovery? We find that it’s not the body, it is Consciousness itself. And we have come together to this place where we can see that ‘I Am That I Am’. I am this Consciousness. So, (although again it sounds silly), but the fact is, there must be something primal there which wants to experience all of this, wants to taste all these energies, wants to also taste the distaste when they appear. So, from the perspective of Consciousness, you are the experiencer of all of this. And from the ultimate perspective as Awareness, as The Self, none of this truly happened anyway; and it’s not happening anyway.

I feel actually, as a sangha, we’re coming to a very beautiful place, because the kind of explorations we’re having, the type of contemplations we’re having are very, very direct; very profound. And we’re coming to a very direct Seeing, direct discovery of the Self and truly exploring topics which are not so much heard about. We’re not just scratching the surface anymore, but coming to the unity of this Seeing.

We’ve been looking at even things like…, when Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] says the ‘I’ remains and everything comes and goes. How is this ‘I’ the truth of what I Am, the Absolute. This Awareness is also called the Self on this path. How could it be ‘the Self’ unless it was ‘I’? Self means I. This Awareness which is aware of Itself is ‘I’.

We’ve also looked at the difference between the worldly sense of nothing verses this no-thing that we are discovering ourself to be; which has the full potentiality of all things, and yet it’s Infiniteness is not touched even when it’s potential is expressed in actual form. Now we’re exploring more and looking at whether as a result of this potential expressing itself as phenomena, there is actually any duality that emerges. Or is it only the singularity?

It’s a very, very beautiful exploration, with it’s harbingers. So let’s offer up these explorations at the feet of the Master. It is for him to provide the words to express these things which have been called inexpressible actually in the past. So, let’s see if some pointers can emerge which can throw some light even on these concept-less findings of contemplations.

For some of you who are new to satsang, some of this must be sounding completely abstract or intellectual or mental. Don’t worry about it. Soon, as you come more and more into the Seeing of what you are, then these worlds will also sound very basic and straight-forward. Because the point here is not to exercise our knowledge or our intellect to see what pointers can actually be useful aids to our looking, to our discovery of who we are.

I can offer you a question to start with; to start today’s inquiry: What is here now in the seeming-phenomenal realm which is the most like Awareness?

What is here now in this phenomenal realm that seems like it is the most like Awareness. And what do we mean by ‘most like Awareness’? The attribute-less; it has no flavor, it has no attributes, has no color, has not feeling. Can we find something in this realm which resembles that? And it is very, very primal to us. Just simply Look. [Silence] That which is so much like Awareness that even to say ‘the Presence of…’ it doesn’t have. That transparent; it’s Seen.

When you find, you can type it out in the chats [or say].

Q: For me, it is like pure Witnessing.

A: Witnessing.

Q: Am-ness or Beingness.

A: You can say that. But in the exploration today, I want to emphasize the attention which is very much related to what Vedika was saying. [Witnessing] This attention…, we can truly explore: What is this attention? Does it have a taste? Does it have a color? Can we find the boundaries, (although it does seem to be bound)?

So, this attention is almost as if Awareness playing in a phenomenal way through our attention. Why do we say ‘attention’ and not ‘Awareness Itself’? Because if it is so much similar, then why do we say ‘attention’ and not ‘Awareness Itself’?

It’s very subtle, so I’m going to make a few points, and hopefully it will come together some way. [Chuckles]

Q: Attention is directed towards objects…,

A: It’s directed towards objects.

Q: This Awareness is not.

A: Yes. It seems to be specifically directed. And the fact that attention appears to be specifically directed also implies then that it is limited. Because if it needs to be specifically directed or it is specific in what it is conveying, or bringing the content that is being brought, that means that it is not (by default) everywhere at once. So, as opposed to what is unchanging, in this way…, and is all there is. At the background of all of this, this play of Awareness in the phenomenal realm, playing as attention, seems more like it is limited.

So, we’ve been doing experiments over the years where we said that ‘We cannot bring our attention and be with that completely AND be with an external seeing, through sight; one of them starts to blur as our focus changes. That itself shows us that attention plays in this way. Whereas Awareness remains untouched through all of this.

So, what is dependent on this attention? (I know it’s sounding a bit like a class, but it’s a bit important because there’s some questions about this.) What is dependent on this attention is our phenomenal perceiving. Because there is no phenomenal perceiving without our attention. So therefore, we can say that it depends or not on whether phenomenal perceiving is present or absent. But we cannot say that about Awareness.

This is a very important but subtle point, which is that depending on the presence or absence of attention, there is phenomenal perceiving or not. You see? But we can never say that there is Awareness or not; because even to say ‘There is phenomenal perceiving’ there is an awareness of it. So, that is why we say that it is the phenomenal perceiving which belongs to Beingness, and attention is reporting back to Being. Although it seems as intimate to Awareness actually. At one point, I used to call them ‘the twins’ [Chuckles] because it is phenomenally impossible to distinguish between the birth of Being and attention. I was saying the other day that some also use [the terms] synonymously.

But it’s very good to look at it this way to See that this which we call the phenomenal perceiving is dependent on this primal force called attention. Therefore, that phenomenal seeing is different from Awareness. The phenomenal seeing is different from Awareness in the very nature of limitedness on this force called attention, whereas Awareness is unlimited by any constraint of any sort.

So, seeming-distinguishing. Now let’s see if we can pull it back together to show that ultimately this is one. (We’re just having some fun; I know it’s sounding very serious.) [Chuckles]

Q: Father, one point. If attention is synonymous with the Being, then how in the explanation of the Self-Inquiry we bring our attention on the Source of myself?

A: That’s what I was saying. You were saying the other day that many are saying that the being conscious or bringing attention to something is the same thing. So, I like to distinguish between the two so that it’s clear. Like that…

So, now we’ve voted out, in a sense…, (and I don’t know how many of you are with me. I hope some of you are)…, that to see that the phenomenal perceiving seems dependent on the force called attention. And yet, the Awareness, which is the back-drop of all of this, is independent of this attention. This is important to See.

Now, what is the point of this discussion is not to inject duality into Advaita. It’s not that. But to see that for Awareness to experience itself in this dynamic way…, it’s almost as if this hand was Awareness, and the hand wants to experience the hand, then a finger must arise from the hand for the finger to be able to experience the rest of itself, in a dynamic way.

So, what happens is that, within this Awareness itself, the primordial phenomenon called Beingness takes birth. And yet it is only made up of this Awareness. In sleep state, then only Awareness is. So, if only Awareness is, even this Being has been made up of only that. And yet, to experience itself in a dynamic way, this Being is created…, and this Being can then be said to be the Witness of all that is phenomenally playing out. This Awareness is aware even of this. This phenomenal Witnessing is only subject to our attention; whereas Awareness is not subject to even attention.

So, when we say that we bring our attention back home, or to the Source, we are actually bringing it to the point where the distinction between the manifest and the unmanifest starts to dissolve, to the point where the yin and the yang, they meet; where the intersection of Awareness and Being meet and are Seen to be One.

Why it is important to make these points is that otherwise there can be a lot of confusion between Awareness and that which is the phenomenal perceiving like sight, hearing, taste. There is awareness even of this, and this is also made up of Awareness ultimately. But perceiving is subject to attention, whereas Awareness is not. In fact, there can only be phenomenal perceiving if there is attention.

The other day after satsang, where we [sangha] were wondering whether sleep state must come when we run out of this limited quantity of attention that we seem to have. That’s also another beautiful contemplation which we can have.

Q: [Inaudible Comments]

A: We can say that, like Guruji says ‘I have a low attention span’. Someone says that ‘I have a longer attention span’. So attention…, that’s why although it’s so similar to Awareness, (it’s color-less, attribute-less, you cannot really make a shape or size of it, yet it almost like Awareness playing in the phenomenal realm; almost like It’s bringing Its head out [Chuckles]

and looking at this phenomenal world through the eyes of attention.

Because it is so intimate to Awareness, many use attention to describe Awareness. And then it becomes confusing for them, where they say ‘Why you stress on Awareness so much? This is also Being’. What they’re actually describing is the play of attention. And because it is so intimate to Awareness…, it’s all there is; outside of Awareness there is no attention.

To see that there is something called sleep, but there is no phenomenal perceiving, no force of attention, belief. None of these dynamic forces which are in operation needs Awareness. So, that which is not coming and going, irrespective of the states. Yet, to be able to say ‘Yes, in this state, something which comes up meets Awareness’. It is not just…, sleep is not just a mental construct. So, without there being attention, Awareness remains.

It’s important to check on these things because otherwise the intimacy of attention can easily be confused to be Awareness Itself.

But when we see that whether attention has a little attention span (‘Oh, I cannot give my attention to 10 things’) or some will say ‘I can multi-task’…, that means attention can have various sorts of play in its limited nature. You cannot say that about Awareness.

So, to see this functioning of this phenomenal perceiving through our attention and yet, there being the awareness of that entire play of perception, and this Awareness remaining untouched by the content of the play, is a very, very beautiful point to come to.

And I know that this is not really…, (and I hate to use the words like ‘Advanced seeker’ but I feel just to use words we can say that); this is for those who have really been in satsang and have been contemplating these things so deeply.

Welcome to the exploration of who we are that we do every day. Actually, I feel for most of you, you can’t get over the shock that you are no-thing. [Chuckles] Or the fear that it might actually be true that you are no-thing. And the mind always says that ‘This no-thing is so boring or terrible, what’s the point?’ But this no-thing is not the absence of phenomena. In the worldly sense the absence of phenomena means there’s nothing, isn’t it? This no-thing is the potential for all phenomena to happen but it’s much more than just the potential for phenomena.

Don’t worry about it; we’re not just using fancy words. I’m just trying to tell you that there’s a difference between the worldly understanding of nothing; and that’s why I say ‘no-thing’. It’s not an accent issue. [Chuckles] There’s a difference between the worldly sense of nothing and that Awareness, the non-phenomenal no-thing. Because it is this non-phenomenal no-thing, Awareness, which holds the potential for all phenomena. You see? The worldly nothing doesn’t have any potential, doesn’t have anything; it’s literally nothing. So, this is an important difference.

What you are discovering about yourself is not the ‘Big Bang’. What was there prior to the ‘Big Bang’? Must have been the potential for the ‘Big Bang’, isn’t it? So, is that nothing? Or something?…, (although it is no-thing). It is still That which is, in the phenomenal sense, full of this potential; and yet not limited to this potential to become something. Because if it was just this potential to become something then, once it became something, there would be literally nothing left. And yet, you remain untouched. I wonder if this makes any sense. So, if you were just the potential to become something, then once you became something, then literally there would be no Awareness left. But Awareness remains untouched, you see. That is why it is the unlimited.

And this, although to the mind it sounds like very boring, torturous words, the reality of what You Are is very beautiful to discover because you remain untouched through all of this phenomenal play. And this is what we’re discovering, very simply.

It doesn’t matter for some time if you’re not sharing in this way about what you’re discovering; the words are not coming in any way about what you’re discovering. But it is not about the expression of the discovery, but actually the discovery itself. So we are coming to this simple discovery:

I am Aware Now. I am aware of this Awareness.

What does this ‘I’ look like? Don’t go to knowledge for the answer, go to your Looking. YOU that knows that You are aware, what does this You look like? The ‘I’ that knows Awareness, what does this ‘I’ look like? Again, don’t go to memory, past, concepts, intelligence for the answer; stay with your Looking. In fact, I don’t want any answer. Just Look.

Do you have a weight? Do you have a size? Do you have any attributes? Do you have a shape? Do you have a color? Do you have a past? Will you have a future?

[Silence]

‘Who is aware of Awareness?’ is a very important inquiry, because it removes the dichotomy between ‘Awareness’ and ‘I’ which the mind tries to create.

[Silence]

If you know nothing, what remains? Is your existence dependent on knowing something? If you drop all concepts…, what is here now?

[Silence]

Observe that some thoughts will come, to distract you or to give you an answer. And the problem really is not these thoughts coming; because they are going. Now it is more important to notice the urge to believe them. Today, don’t even try to not believe them; just notice the urge to believe them. Just watching…, as thoughts come and go, our attention goes to them. Notice the urge to accept what they are saying. Observe how the mind will try to make conclusions that ‘No thoughts are coming’…, which itself is a thought.

[Silence]

What remains when you are empty of concepts?

[Silence]

Who is aware of that which is heard through the ears?

Who is aware of that which is seen through the eyes?

Is it the same Awareness which is aware of hearing and sight? That which is aware of touch and taste. [Silence] That which is aware even of the sense of Presence, the primordial sense that ‘I exist’. ‘I Am’.

Q: In the last few weeks I’ve been dealing with more, I guess, mundane issues than what was discussed prior with you.

A: [Laughter]

Q: So relating to relationships, it seems to be a very good satsang, [Laughter] bringing out all the skeletons from the closet or what not. Various sages have had different approaches and I’m wondering what’s your guidance here?

I heard…, (I think it was actually with another devotee that you talked about it pretty recently), and what I got from it was just to surrender it all at the feet of the Master which I’m not sure exactly, in a very pragmatic level, what does that mean ? [Laughter]

So specifically, I’ve heard Mooji say many times ‘Just focus on establishing yourself as the Self or stay as the Self’…, which seems to be working. But then sometimes I get into that loophole of…, or into that corner of being a spiritual jerk. And sometimes that’s not even observed and it’s only in the hindsight that I become aware of that.

And I know Adya [Adyashanti] has this approach where he says dive into the specific thoughts and feelings in a certain conditioning that we have and really get to the bottom of it; both in the mind and the feeling level, which I really appreciate. The problem I found was that it becomes more of a heady process. When I journal and write, there is a lot of clarity that comes on the one hand; but then it doesn’t go away. [Laughter] That pattern keeps coming back.

The other problem I see, which is even more problematic…, it’s the 1-2 punch that you talk about, is that once I start dealing with these things, then I start identifying with this; like all of a sudden I’m not identifying as the Awareness but rather as this far-from-perfect personality which I’m obviously not perfect and will never be, but it just gets more into that…, I don’t know.

A: Let’s pause here to make sure that I’m understanding where you are so far. So you say the root of some trouble seems to be relationship. And then the various approaches which you’re trying to use to not be the spiritual jerk, or to take the stress and trouble out of this relationship; you’re trying to journal or you’re trying to remain as the Self…., you’re presumably trying not to believe your thoughts. And all of these strategies you feel are not really helping as much as they should. Is that what you’re basically saying so far?

Q: Yeah. Sort of, like the approach I feel of remaining as the Self or not buying your next thought seems to hold water up to a certain level. The problem is, in a relationship at least, you get the feedback which is pretty immediate and if you’re causing a problem…

A: Let’s take an example.

Q: It can be very mundane things. Sometimes I don’t even understand what’s triggering, but obviously something she said triggered in me and I’m feeling pissed off. And sometimes it comes over like a dark cloud that I’m not even clear what…, like it was nothing if you look objectively at what happened and the sequence of events. But it doesn’t really matter, you know; it’s just a feeling and it comes up and there’s this dark cloud. And then I can say ‘Well, I’m aware of this but it doesn’t matter, I’m still acting out that dark cloud’. And so she sees that and she’s…, it triggers all of her stuff going on, you know. So, it becomes this kind of ping-pong of identification and it’s not getting anywhere. So if I just try to stay as a I am and let that cloud go by itself, (if I was alone it wouldn’t be a problem, but in the context of being with someone that’s a little bit more problematic), it feels sometimes as spiritual bypassing or whatever, to kind of ‘Advaita it away’.

A: Advaita denial.

Q: Yeah, yeah. I have an angry face but I’m not really angry or whatever. [Laughter]

A: [Laughter] The angry face is just an appearance.

Q: [Laughter] Yeah, it’s just the conditioning; it’s not me.

A: [Laughter]

Q: And when I start diving more into that specific whatever pattern, and the recommendation that Adya talks about, I’m probably not doing it right because…, or maybe it’s more like weeding and it’s more of a recurring thing, and it doesn’t go off at once. And I know Rupert [Spira] talks about not dealing with any specific conditioning but just, you know, he has his approach of doing more yoga meditations or what-not, anyways.

A: Ok, so let’s look at this. This is very good. A few points can come up in response to this. First is that you reminded me that somebody said that ‘There is 100% record for finding relationships’. [Laughter] I didn’t know this is what is happening in satsang. [Laughter] Yours is not, (presumably you didn’t find your partner in our satsang), but the numbers of who are finding partners are increasing presumably. [Laughter]

Second and more important, and the real point is, that none of these things, (whether you follow Guruji, [Moojiji], you follow me, you follow Adya, Rupert, anyone), none of these things will really, really work if there is a ‘person’ there trying to make his or her life better by using a particular technique.

So, what happens is that the seeker guy or the checker guy is saying ‘But I am doing [it]. I am writing down the sticky-velcro thoughts as Adya would say, or I am not believing my thoughts or trying not to believe my thoughts’ as Ananta would say, or whatever…,‘I’m abiding in the Self as Bhagavan would say; but is it really helping me’. So, if the core intent remains this one, that we want to help this ‘me’, then we’re taking the position of the cat who is trying to look for his next bowl of milk, using spirituality and all spiritual offerings, all of these variety of bowls. It’s trying all of those and it’s saying ‘Yeah, this helps me a little, this doesn’t really, maybe I’m not doing it right, I’m not following it enough. Something, you see?

Now, what we must investigate is this one, to see whether this one has any validity at all. Because none of these…, especially the teachers that you mentioned, aren’t there to cater to this one. [Laughter]. So, many of the other so-called self-help groups, or relationship advisors and things, maybe can intervene and help the relationship. But what we’re talking about is not really to help you in this way; in this way in which it brings better relationship, it brings more peace, more joy. All of these could be very nice by-products to have, but it is not the core of what the pointing is.

The core of the pointing is to fulfill your urge for self-discovery. And all of these tools are helpful to get there. But if the barometer remains ‘How am I doing in my relationship, how is my partner responding?’ and things like this, then you’ll find that you’re not making progress. Because the same ego that operates in me, operates in the partner also. So, if you’re expecting the feedback from that one to change and improve, because of some spiritual techniques that I am trying, then that is falling into another trap, which is also a mental trap.

So first we must clarify our intention. And what is our intention? Is it to have…, is it primarily to have better relationships, peace and love in our life? Or is it primarily that our urge for self-discovery has become so strong that we cannot avoid but focus on that?

Q: The primary urge for sure is self-discovery. This relationship just seems to be an unfolding as part of this play. I mean, it wasn’t planned on neither of our ends.

A: So, then let’s see. The ‘me’ that wants to have better relationship, do we want to continue to cater to that one? Or can our urge for self-discovery continue irrespective in what is happening in the life of this one?

Q: The latter, for sure.

A: Yes, this is very good. Because, otherwise, what can happen, (it could be relationship, or money, or work issues, or health of the body issues), is that we get side-tracked in some way, and we keep expecting that that should become better as a barometer for how am I doing spiritually. So that is one.

Second is…, (I kept saying very often here, maybe also to you, and mostly to others, which is), that this one that is checking is really…, it comes a point where this one is the most dominant aspect of the seeker. The one that is checking and reporting on spiritual progress is what the seeker relies on for sustenance for very, very long. So, if you just keep this one aside and say ‘I’m not really that concerned at the moment even about how is it playing out in the relationship. I’m not so concerned about how my checker is defining my spiritual progress. I’m not concerned about any of this stuff. What is it that I am recognizing myself to be?’

The mind will resist this question. ‘Oh, I know this’. [Laughter] But it’s good to just bring ourselves back and say ‘Am I aware now?’ or ‘Who am I?’ or ‘Who is aware of this awareness?’…, just to check like this and to see that I’ve only been this Awareness, untouched by any of this play. And from here, from this place of emptiness, if you take what Guruji says to be the Self, and the Self alone; to remain in this emptiness, or to not believe the next thought, it’s all the same thing. The starting point must be this emptiness. The starting point cannot be the seeker, or the checker, or relationship guy. Otherwise it becomes personal and we feel our spiritual practice (or something) should give us something personally and that the by product should become the core.

Q: So when you say ‘starting point’, you mean the starting point to the inquiry specifically for the situation at hand?

A: Yes. The starting point to the inquiry, or the starting point to just the moment when this awareness came that ‘I seem to be getting in these personal thoughts again’. The starting point to the moment of insight has to start with coming to this space of emptiness, and to see that ‘The only way the pretense of personhood can now continue is if I believe my next thought’…, and so we are allowing them to just come and go.

It’s important to see what is the background…, the backdrop of the inquiry. The backdrop of the inquiry. Because the inquiry itself, (which could help to clean up), is this emptiness. And anything that we take on with the backdrop of anything which is personal, then that will become just like a personal endeavor; like most things in the world. And it’s like going to a salsa class or something, because basically you’re taking the backdrop of being a person who wants to improve his skills in something. So it’s like going to a relationship management class, or an anger management class, or something like this, where the presumption is that you are a person and you need to become better at relationship.

Here what we’re saying is that the context must now become this emptiness. And the play should become ‘What are the buttons which get pressed to make me pretend to be a person again?’ So from here, whether you follow Adya’s advice to write down those sticky thoughts, or you follow me saying not believing the next thought, or you follow whatever the sages said; then really no trouble. But if you keep the person around and say ‘Is this really helping? It’s not really going away’ then that itself shows that the context was wrong.

Q: So, if I hear you right, it means I have to establish myself as what you truly are…, before I even decide whether I want to explore with any one of those pointings…, some (let’s call it) contraction, or some pattern that seems to be arising.

A: Yes, that is right. And for the mind it might seem counter-intuitive in some sense, because it says but ‘Then how do I come to this emptiness?’ So, therefore I can give this pointing only to those who had the recognition of what they are.

For those who have not had the recognition of what they are, I cannot really say ‘Okay, you must start with that emptiness’. But for you and the others who have been in satsang for so long, I have to say that whatever brings you to this emptiness, the seeing of yourself as no-thing, start from that perspective; and you’ll find then that these personal pointings which are not really meant for that will drop, will not be so strong.

Q: And what’s the…? So, the second part you said, (as far as I heard), was not to let the person or the mind be the barometer of whether this is helping in any way, shape or form.

A: Exactly. Because you might say tomorrow that ‘Ananta, I followed what you said and my relationship is even worse today than it was yesterday!’ [Laughter]. So, I take no guarantees on about how it works out. [Laughter] But usually our stance is in the personhood.

You’ll find that, in most situations, you’ll find more peace comes and the spiritual jerkiness will also start to drop more and more. Usually. [Laughter].

Q: Practically speaking, if there’s a hot, let’s say, situation at hand, like sort of a strong conditioning comes up…, what would be kind of the best…? And this is still a ‘person’ kind of question, I see now…

A: It’s okay, it’s okay, this question. So, two things can happen in these situations. One is that we operate fully from conditioning. There is no awareness of what is going on, it’s just ‘The situation is just happening. So, that just happened’. It’s best not to pick up guilt about that. You see, the 1-2 punch; if it was like that.

If there is a moment of insight that comes even in a strong situation like this, some have reported that in the middle of a strong situation, suddenly some insight came and both of us started laughing. So, it can come like that. In the moment, if an insight comes, then you can apply any of the techniques. ‘Who is it I am taking myself to be right now? Or ‘Am I believing my thoughts? Don’t believe your next thought’. But that depends whether that moment of clarity came in the midst of strong situations or not. Many times it doesn’t come; and in those times it is best not to pick up guilt and say ‘I should not have believed my thoughts’ and things. Because there was no space there at all, that insight did not come in that situation at all, and the guilt actually makes it worse.

Q: Is there like a litmus test of when I am behaving like a spiritual jerk?

A; [Laughter] The litmus test is just that when you ask yourself something like ‘What was it for, when I said blah, blah, blah? What was it for?’ Was it really trying to be helpful in that situation or was it trying to be special? Or to be seen as somebody spiritually evolved in that situation? Was it a game of one-upmanship? And you know this when you just check, you know this; what this was for, one-upmanship or what was this really about.

No need to delve too much into that. I feel that life will show us anyway. Life showed me here very often [Laughter] that I was being a spiritual jerk many times. Don’t have to worry too much about that. You’re dropping all identity now; then even the spiritual jerk identity will be dropped along with that.

So, let these come as insights. Don’t make it your primary project to get rid of the spiritual jerk. The primary project is still self-discovery and letting go of the false conditioning. The by-products of all of this are better relationships, the dropping of spiritual jerk; all of these are the by-products that will happen on their own, organically. So, don’t change your sights from this self-discovery to not being a jerk or having a better relationship.

Q: Thank you!

A: Okay, I will read the question you asked first ‘Sorry, Father, what do you mean by the expression of the discovery?’

Just meant, (for those who had this recognition of who they are), they might have different way of expressing it, because no expression actually can explain what they have discovered is. Isn’t it? Just like that old example of ‘You cannot explain love to one who have not experienced love’.

Q: Yeah. That part I got it now. Because right now I’m…, what I can see is…, there is even when now this meditation or inquiry what was going on, I couldn’t sit in silence, Father. Somehow that part is not my cup of tea; I feel something like that; if it has to happen it happens. I am not denying that. But when you are doing the inquiry…, if I have to sit, I can’t sit for long. I don’t know; somehow that doesn’t work for me here.

So, even though there is (what to say) neutrality here now at the moment, I am not identified or carried away with thoughts, believing the thoughts; all those things are gone. Even experiences don’t matter, there is no past or future, no present. Everything is gone, there is nothing. There is absolutely nothing now.

Actually I don’t know what I want to say but I want to say something.

A: If all identification is gone or most identification is gone and nothing really seems to stick anymore, then it doesn’t sound like any trouble can be there.

Q: No, it’s absolutely okay. I am fine. Even if something comes up, it’s okay; it doesn’t really bother, you know?

What I want to ask was…, (I don’t remember actually. No seriously father I wanted to ask something which…, what is…? (I kind of forgot I don’t remember now what I was thinking. Oh my god, I don’t remember.)

Maybe something…, maybe…, Is it okay that I am not able to…, I mean I am like…, I am not aware, like, I don’t know if I am aware of the awareness… Yeah, I got it now.

I don’t know if am aware of the awareness, at the same time I am aware that I’m not; what I am not.

A: This is very good. Just pause here. This much is enough to start with.

It’s actually very simple what we say actually. When we say ‘I am walking’ we know what is walking. When we say ‘I am running’ we know what is running. When I am tasting we know what is tasting. And also at the realm of emotions we know when there is sadness coming we say ‘I know there is sadness’. You see.

Now ‘I am aware’…, how do we know this? What do we know it as? Because everything else that we say, we know what it is. Now what is this awareness?

Q: It’s just awareness; before the words.

A: Just like there’s the sense ‘I am aware of walking’ there is also the sense of ‘I am aware of awareness’. The only difference being, walking is phenomenal activity and awareness is prior to all phenomena. Otherwise we would be not able to say ‘I am aware’ if were not aware of awareness. How would we say ‘I am aware’?

The trouble is that you don’t see something phenomenally. And because we don’t see something phenomenally the mind comes and says’ I don’t know if I am aware or not’. Then how can you say ‘I am aware’?

Q: No, no, what I meant is, (sorry) I am aware but I don’t know if I am aware of awareness. That’s what I am saying.

A: ‘That’s what I am saying’. Okay, this is very good. I am happy to speak about this. So if you are not aware of awareness, how can you say ‘I am aware’?

Q: That’s very subtle.

A: Yeah, it’s very subtle; subtler than the mind.

Q: Exactly

A: How can you say ‘I am aware’. Why don’t you say ‘I am not aware’?

Q: Oh, my god, it makes so much sense, Father. It makes total sense what you are saying. Oh, my god. It’s just that, oh…, I was like, oh, it’s like…, I get what you are saying, yeah. It’s just that. Yeah. It’s simple as that. Yeah, yeah. It’s hidden there only, actually.

A: Yes. Hidden in plain sight.

Q: Exactly which was overlooked. When I say ‘I am not aware of awareness’…, I am aware of awareness otherwise why would I say that? Oh, goodness gracious, I was caught. I felt like I was trapped, Father, because it is so subtle. This is very subtle.

A: Yes. Yet now, as you are recognizing this, it will seem like it is the most obvious. Isn’t it?

Q: It is! And I was thinking I have to…, it’s like the mind was like…, ‘oh, my goodness’. It’s making me believe that; because that was the last thing I think. Oh, my god, it was like making me…, ‘One day you will be aware of awareness’. And it’s still saying ‘Have you got it right?’ [Laughs] These are very subtle traps I think, Father; as it cannot be seen.

A: I feel it’s very, very good to come to this point because it is very direct. It leaves no room for the mind to maneuver. There is no scope for the mind to actually contribute much to this except to express its frustration out and things like this. So when we come here and say ‘Who is this that says I am aware? I’m not sure if I am aware of this awareness’. Then how do we say ‘I am aware’? Why don’t we say ‘I am not aware’?

What gives us the ability to say ‘aware’ in the first place? What is this ‘aware’? This ‘aware’ is your only non-phenomenal experience. Everything else is tasted phenomenally. Even your Being is experienced; primordial phenomena it might be, but still phenomenal. But even now you cannot say what you saw.

Q: No, no.

A: And yet it seemed so obvious.

Q: It is. I mean, in fact I was all the time…, and I believed that I was not…,

A: Yeah, it is like that. [Chuckles]

Q: …which is not something phenomenal actually. That’s why…, (Oh. Probably I don’t know how to tell that). Yeah, and it kind of brought some fear sensations in my heart after this, and I could see that somehow I don’t know what it is. So, this leaves no room for anything. It’s like kind of the end; something like that. I mean the end to the mind; not to the awareness or the seeking part.

A: End to the mind, end to the belief in the mind and end to the identification the mind.

Q: Oh, I totally needed this, Father! Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

A: Thank you, my dear. I like it very much when you can come and say ‘But I’m not aware of Awareness. What do you mean that I’m aware?’ Then we just look at it and say ‘Why do we say ‘I am aware?’

So her question is actually very beautiful. She said ‘I am aware, but I don’t know whether I’m aware of this Awareness’. She says ‘I am aware. Yes, Yes. Of course. I am aware. But I don’t know whether I’m aware of this Awareness’. But in saying ‘I am aware’ in itself, we are saying ‘I am aware of this Awareness’…, which is ‘Awareness is aware of Itself’.

That is why I feel that ‘Who is aware of this Awareness?’ removes this dichotomy between ‘Awareness’ and ‘I’.

Because from many years in satsang, I’ve seen that the recognition of Awareness seems to become in relation to an ‘I’ which is not Awareness, and then we refer to it as ‘It’. ‘Nothing happened to It but I am suffering’. Nothing happened to It but I am suffering, you see? Or ‘Nothing is happening to It but I have fear or I have …, something’. Now what is the cause of this dichotomy? The cause of this dichotomy is that Awareness has also been taken as an experience by the mind and it says ‘It is over there, and you are over here’.

So, when we ask the question ‘Who is aware of Awareness?’ it unifies this sense of ‘I’ and ‘Awareness’. This is the ‘I’ that remains. As Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] says ‘I removes the I, and yet remains the I’. This is the ‘I’ that remains.

Q: Father, who does the inquiry? Is it the ego who does the inquiry?

A: Okay, so shall we start with this as the inquiry question? This is good. Is your question that ‘There is nobody here so nobody can do the inquiry’? Or ‘There are two of me here, and which one does the inquiry?’ Which of the two is it?

Q: Is it the ego who does the inquiry?

A: So, there are two multiple-choice questions. [Chuckles] First option is that there is nobody here, so there is nobody here to do the inquiry. That is option 1. Option 2 is that there is something and something else, and one is the ego, (which you’re saying), so which one does it? Is that your question? Or is it the first one, that there is nobody here?

Q: Father, who of the two is doing the inquiry?

A: Yeah, so who are the two? One is the ego, and second option is…? [Silence] So, besides the ego…?

Q: It is just the ego that…?

A: No, we are just defining the framework right now, which is: If it is ego, or.. what else?

Q: [Silence]

A: So, if there’s an option there, that either it can be the ego or it can be something else. So, let’s first see what is that something else. What else is there besides the ego?

Q: [Silence]

A: Because if there is only ego, then the answer is clear; then it must be the ego which is doing it. But if there is a choice; is it the ego that does the inquiry or is it … what? [Silence] Say something?

Q: Father, if the ego does the inquiry, then the one who understands is also the ego.

A: But I haven’t yet said that the ego does the inquiry. We are just saying what are the options? So one could be ego. Who else could be doing it? [Silence] You feel like there is something else but you’re not able to define it; is that the problem? Or you feel like only ego is there?

Q: Only ego is there.

A: Only ego is there. [Chuckles] Okay. Where is this ego?

Q: [Silence]

A: Only ego is there, but where is it? Which one is the ego? [Silence] What is the existence of the ego? What is the proof of the ego, the evidence of the ego?

Q: Thoughts.

A: Thoughts are there. Okay, so thoughts are ego?

Q: Ego is a thought.

A: Okay, ego is a thought. Then, there is no ego in the space between thoughts? [Silence] Do you also vanish when there is no thought? Do you also vanish along with that?

Q: No.

A: You see? Then there must be something other than ego. [Smiles]

Q: There’s a lot of confusion, Father.

A: Yes, yes. It’s very good; the purpose of this inquiry session is to get rid of all of this confusion. And what you will find is that all our concepts, all our ideas are being asked to get thrown away. So we must be completely open to be free from all the ideas that we might be holding onto.

So, we made a good start. You said that ‘Who does the inquiry?’ Very good question. But you presumed my answer is going to be ‘The ego does it’. Then I said ‘Okay, can we define the options?’ Then you said ‘Oh, if ego does it, then who gets to the understanding? The ego only?’ But I didn’t say ‘The ego does the inquiry’. We just stopped to say ‘What are the other options? Let’s define them first’. You said ‘There’s only ego’. So then I said ‘Okay, there is only ego. Where is it? What is it?’ And you said ‘It is a thought’. So then we said ‘What about when the thought is not there? Do you vanish along with the thought?’ You say ‘No’. Therefore, there must be something to you which is not a thought, isn’t it? What is that? [Silence]

And our understanding which is intellectual will not help us. We just have to check. So, what I’m inviting you to do is to See: thought comes, thought goes. What happens in the space between two thoughts? Who is still here? The ‘I’ which still is here is which one? [Silence] So, what it remains?

Q: [Silence]

A: You continue to remain, irrespective of the thought, isn’t it? Yes or no.

Q: Yes, yes.

A: Yes. Okay. This sense of existence is the sense that ‘I Am’. (And if it’s confusing, don’t worry about it). When the thought comes and goes, and in the space between two thoughts, what is it that still continues to exist?

Q: [Silence]

A: And don’t worry about right answer or wrong answer. Whatever you feel is coming from a place of integrity, just say that answer. It’s okay. [Silence] You say ‘I don’t go along with my thoughts. I am still here’. So this is what; that remains is what?

Q: Awareness.

A: This is Awareness.

[Chuckles] That was a quick inquiry. [Laughs] Okay. So if this is Awareness, how did you find this Awareness? What does it look like?

Q: [Silence]

So if you said ‘But the body is still here’ then I would say ‘That which is aware of the body, what is that?’ Or if you said ‘The sense that I exist is still here’…, I would say ‘That which is aware of even this sense of existence, what is that?’

Now, you said something which got us straight to the point. You said ‘Awareness’. This is very good. Now, is this an answer you are giving just because you feel it would be the right answer? Or this is your real answer?

Q: Yeah, that is the real answer. That’s how it makes sense.

A: Very good. Okay, okay. So, you say ‘Awareness remains’. Now I say ‘How do you know this?’

Q: Awareness is always there.

A: Always here. Okay. What does it look like?

Q: It’s just Awareness.

A: Just Awareness. What does it mean ‘Just Awareness’? [Silence] If I say that ‘In my garden, roses are always there’. We confirm the presence of the roses because we see them. Now how do you inform the Presence of Awareness?

And don’t give this question to the mind, because it will throw a big tantrum. Just simply; like children, we’re looking at this simple question. We are able to say ‘Oh, Awareness’. And yet, do we see Awareness? Do we perceive it in some way? [Silence] For everything else, we can see the phenomenal presence of that to confirm it is. Isn’t it? But what about this Awareness? [Silence]

Isn’t it amazing actually that we’re able to confirm this Awareness without it being a phenomenal experience?

Or, is it something phenomenal that we are confirming? [Silence] Is this Awareness an object; a thing?

Q: No.

A: No. Is this Awareness like a black space? Or some spatial energy?

Q: It just IS.

A: It just IS.

Now…, somebody asked me during the break, (last two days), ‘Why do you say this ‘Who is aware of Awareness is very important’? Isn’t it enough to say ‘Awareness is here’? I feel it’s a very good question. And the answer is that, it is very important because the mind makes an experience out of Awareness Itself. And it says ‘Oh, yeah, Awareness is aware, it is aware of this. Nothing happens to It’. You see? And there becomes a disassociation between the real ‘I’ and Awareness. Therefore, when we ask this question ‘Who is aware even of this Awareness?’ it brings us straight to the point that it is ‘I’ that is Awareness Itself.

So, this Awareness that you’re reporting…, who is aware of it? [Silence]

Is it a thought? Is it an idea of separation? Is it the body? Who is aware of this Awareness?

Q: [Silence] Awareness Itself.

A: And…, how did Awareness report this to you? What is the communication medium between Awareness and you?

Q: [Silence]

A: Is Awareness sitting somewhere separate from you to come and tell you that ‘Oh, it is Me-Awareness that is aware of Itself’?

Q: It’s here, all the time.

A: Yes. And You are who? So, one thing we’ve established: Awareness is here all the time. Now, You are something that is here all the time? Or you are coming and going?

Q: ‘I’ is coming and going.

A: Ah, okay, so if ‘I’ is coming and going, who is aware of the coming and going of this ‘I’?

That which is not moving must be aware of that which is coming and going. Isn’t it?

So, this which is aware of that which you call ‘I’ is coming and going, that is not You? Is it not You?

Q: [Silence]

A: So, between the ‘I’ which is coming and going, and the Awareness which is aware of it, which one are You?

Q: Father, I don’t know.

A: No, don’t give up now. [Chuckles] We are at a very good place. You said that ‘This Awareness is constantly here. Yet, the ‘I’ seems to be coming and going’. But you know the coming and going of this. Therefore, there must be ‘I’ which is prior to this ‘coming-and-going- I’…, which is aware of the comings and goings of all other sense of identity. Isn’t it?

Q: Hmm. Yeah.

A: So, you said ‘Awareness is not going anywhere’. You must be here to confirm this. Only That which Itself is not going anywhere can confirm that something else is not going anywhere.

You with me? The words are getting too confusing?

Q: No. It’s okay.

A: It cannot be that something which is coming and going can confirm the existence of That which always Is.

Only That Which Always Is… can confirm the existence of That Which Always Is.

You see, a visitor to my house cannot tell me that somebody is always sitting in my house. But that one should always be here to confirm that this one is always here. Isn’t it?

So that which confirms Awareness is not coming and going, which is always here…, is which one? Is it not You? Is it somebody who told you this?

Q: I’m confused between the two, actually.

A: Okay, which of these two now?

Q: Awareness, and the one which keeps coming and going.

A: Ah. Now the one that keeps coming and going, which one is that one? What does it feel like? What does it appear like? How does it come, how does it go? [Silence] Can this ‘I’ go now and show me how it goes? If it is ‘I’ then can you go; and show me; how does it go? [Silence] Here you are. You cannot leave Yourself. [Chuckles] So, this ‘coming-and-going-I’ is which one?

Q: [Silence]

A: Do you mean that which goes to sleep and wakes up? Is that it?

Q: [Sighs]

A: Which is the ‘I’ which is coming and going? Is it the ‘I’ which is just an idea where we started; thought coming and going, emotions coming and going, body changing, coming and going, outside appearances coming and going? Ultimately even the sense ‘I Am’ coming and going? So, which is the ‘I’ in all of that? Or is it something else which is coming and going?

Q: I’m stuck, Father.

A: Even logically, it must be seen now that I must be the one that is being able to report that even the sense of existence comes and goes. I wake up, I go to sleep. The One that is aware of all of this is neither sleeping nor waking. So all that is coming and going is an appearance; is subject to what is called maya. The coming and going of appearances is all a play of maya. Can that come and go?

You say ‘Awareness does not come and go’. For you to be able to report that Awareness does not come and go, you must be the same as this Awareness. Because if that one which is reporting ‘Awareness does not come and go’ itself comes and goes, then how can it ever confirm that Awareness doesn’t come and go?

Q: [Silence]

A: So, see if you can separate yourself from this Awareness. Keep Awareness separate from you and show me.

Q: [Silence] No, it can’t be separated.

A: Can’t be separated. So that which cannot be separated from you is unchanging just like You. There is no distance between You and Awareness. There is nowhere where Awareness is where You are not; and nowhere where You are but Awareness is not. Then what are You finding Yourself to be?

Q: Awareness.

A: Awareness Itself. [Chuckles]

Now, without presuming that You are something other than this Awareness, can you have any trouble? [Silence] You’re Seeing Yourself to be This Awareness. Now to pretend to be the one that has trouble and suffering, problems. Don’t you have to now work and believe some thoughts, pick up some identity to do that?

Q:  Hmmm. Yeah.

A: Yeah. You see? So naturally, effortlessly, You Are This Awareness.

To be the one that has suffering is effort.

Q: The world is the other way around.

A: That is the way of the world. You see? It’s an upside-down world. Because the habit has become so strong for us to pretend and presume as if we are people, that’s why it seems like this inquiry is effort but being a person is effortless. That’s what it feels like. But as you come into the inquiry, you see that this Awareness is effortless. I’m not trying to be aware, I’m not increasing or decreasing awareness; Awareness just IS. I cannot turn it off, I cannot make it brighter. It just IS. It is not coming and going.

These are all your words, actually. So, That which just IS, is effortless. But because our habit is to pretend, to presume ourself to be a person, that’s why that seems like it is effortless. And yet, all of us are tired, isn’t it? They say ‘Being a person is effortless. Being a person is effortless’. And yet, everybody is tired. So it cannot be effortless. It is actually full of effort.

And as we are coming to the natural state of effortlessness, of simplicity, of innocence, this effort is being dropped. Then there will come a point where you would say ‘The body feels tired, I’m even running out of attention’ but you cannot say that ‘What I truly Am is tired’. Because it is effortless to be aware. It IS what I Am…, even before I Am.

Otherwise what would happen? If it was true that to be Awareness is effort-ful and to be the person is effortless then every time you met a sage, they would be the most effort-ful, tired people around you. ‘Don’t disturb me, I’m trying to be Awareness. Don’t talk to me, I’m trying to be Awareness’. They would be so tired. Isn’t it? So, if the effort was in trying to be Awareness, then they would be the most tired. ‘I’m just being Awareness’. That is the mind’s version of freedom, that we must always be in that state of attention; fixed on Awareness or something like that. That is not what we are talking about. We’re saying ‘What is it that you effortlessly Are?’ If you forget about everything, if you stop understanding what your thoughts are saying, will you be unaware?

Q: No.

A: You see? But if you didn’t understand a single thought, can you be a person?

Q: No.

A: So it must take effort to pretend to be a person, but not effort to be the Self.

Q: Hmm.

A: Now what happens is that initially, because we are addicted to consuming our thoughts, it can seem like it takes some effort to stop consuming all of these thoughts. And if it is feeling like effort, my position always is to make that effort.

Because, if coming to effortlessness feels like effort…., then we must make that effort.

Actually, it is the dropping of effort, (which the mind is saying actually is very effort-full); but actually it is coming to the dropping of all sense of effort.

[Silence]

A: Okay. So, now we did the inquiry together and you saw that Awareness is here and ‘I am This Awareness’. Now, so if you did the inquiry, then you must answer the question ‘Who did the inquiry? [Chuckles]

Q: [Smiling, Giggling]

A: Ah, and who’s understanding is it? Does this belong to a thought? Does it belong to an imagined entity?

Q: [Silence]

A: How can something, which doesn’t exist…, something that we cannot find…, how can that non-existent one do something?

[Silence]

A: It cannot. Isn’t it?  Okay, just imagine. Imagine, any idea of a person; imagine it in your head. Give him or her some attributes. Imagine. Put all your imagination into it. Now, ask this one to give you a glass of water. Can he or she do it?

You say ‘Ananta, what kind of question is that? If it’s just imagined, how can it do something?’ [Chuckles] That’s what I’m saying. [Smiling]

If the ego cannot be found, if it’s just imagined, how can it do something?

[Silence]

Therefore then, who is the doer? The doer is that which my Master calls the dynamic aspect of the Self; the dynamic aspect of this Awareness, which is Consciousness Itself. Therefore it is One Awareness exhibiting itself, qualitatively, as if it is Consciousness or Presence.

This is the Shiva and Parvati, the attribute-less Shiva, the Pure Consciousness, the sense ‘I Am’ which is represented in other cultures, like far Eastern cultures, as the Yin and Yang; the manifest and unmanifest together in this constant play.

So, the Yin and Yang are One. Isn’t it? Exhibiting themselves as Yin and Yang. But it is one circle, one whole. You see?

Although, the doer ultimately is also Awareness. Is it Awareness exhibiting itself to be this dynamic form, that which we call Consciousness. All which is phenomenal, all which is appearing, is a play of Consciousness on the screen of Consciousness Itself.

You see? Why do we say this? Because all of this happens when the light of ‘I Am’ is there. Without the sense that ‘I Am’ there is never the experience of the world. Have you experienced the world without You being there?

Q: No.

A: Now, any confusion?

Q: Father, the confusion still remains.

A: I see.

Q: Still, I can’t say whether it’s the ego who understands the inquiry or is it the Self.

A: Okay. Now this ego…, for the ego to understand something, it must exist. Isn’t it?

Q: Yes.

A: Can it demand or do something? The non-existent cannot. Clear? Or no?  Just like when we said ‘Can we imagine this one?’

Q: Yes, yes.

A: Okay. So, is the ego existing right now? Can you show me?

Q: No.

A: Has anyone found the existence of this ego?

[Silence]

A: If we cannot even find the one that we call the ego, (because it’s just a presumed idea; it has no existence), then how can that one understand something?

If it is not even here, if you cannot even find it, then how can it be you? It’s just an idea of you, isn’t it?

Q: Yes.

A: So, an idea of you cannot do anything and cannot understand anything. It’s just an idea. Okay. Tell me one of your favorite ideas.

Q: Uh, like what Father?

A: Any favorite idea which you keep. [Chuckles] Which you believe in often.

Q: I am bliss.

A: ‘I am bliss’ is your favorite idea. Okay. Now, ask bliss to do the inquiry. [Chuckles] Hmm?

So, just like that, just in the same way, ‘I am Prachi’ [her name] is a favorite idea.

You see? Now this idea cannot do anything. This Prachi is just an idea. [Silence] You See? It’s an idea. Isn’t it?

Q: Yes, it is.

A: Yes. So now, how can it be that an idea could do something? [Smiling]

Q: [Silence, Smiling]

A: Where are we? What’s happening?

Q: I just want to say what I see here. So, the attention is all over the place but I’m still aware of the attention all over the place.

A: You are aware of that also. Very good.

Q: So, it doesn’t matter where the attention is.

A: So, this ‘I’ that is aware even of attention, what about This one? When we say ‘aware of’ is there something separate; ‘of’…? Where is this Awareness in relation to this ‘I’?

Q: [sighs] [Silence] It’s here, Father. It’s here, I don’t where; and it’s aware.

A: This ‘It’…, is it separate from ‘I’? That which we truly call ourself, ‘I’…, ‘I am aware’…, is this ‘I’ separate from this Awareness? Is there anything here which is separate from Awareness? The question really is: How is ‘I am aware’ different from ‘Awareness is aware’?

Everyone gets the question? How is ‘I am aware’ different from saying ‘Awareness is aware’? What is the difference between these two?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Okay, but now when we say ‘I am aware’ …, all false sense of ‘I’ is dissolved here.

Now when we say ‘I am aware’ how is it different from saying ‘Awareness is aware’?

[Silence]

Q: What’s here right now is that I can’t find anything with the question.

A: Yes. Are you able to say ‘I am not aware?’

Q: No. I can only see there is nothing here but ‘I am aware’. It feels like I can only find ‘I am aware’.

A: Yes. And this ‘I’ that is aware, or this ‘I’ that is finding ‘I am aware’ …, is it the same as saying ‘Awareness is aware’? Or is there an ‘I’ which is distinguishable from this Awareness?

Q: [Silence]

A: Let’s use this. We say ‘I find only that I am aware’. So, this ‘I’ which finds and this ‘I’ which is aware, is it not the same ‘I’ as Awareness Itself?

What is the difference between saying ‘Awareness finds Itself’ or ‘Awareness is aware of Itself’ …, and ‘I am aware of this Awareness’?

Q: There’s no ‘I’ …, I’m just seeing that all I can find right now is Awareness. But it doesn’t feel like Awareness is aware of Awareness…, (or some resistance to that).

A: Yes. Then who would it be that is aware of Awareness?

Q: It can only be me. [Chuckles]

A: Yes. And this ‘Me’…, it is aware of Awareness; as what? What is this ‘Me’ that is aware of Awareness? What is the distinction between Awareness and this ‘Me’? That is what we are looking for.

Q: So, Father, what was that?

A: The distinction between Awareness and this ‘Me’ is what we are looking for. One point of distinction between Awareness and ‘Me’…, this ‘Me’ that is aware. Just one point.

Q: It doesn’t even feel like a ‘Me’ that’s aware. Okay, I know this doesn’t make sense. [Chuckles] It just feels like awareness is here.

A: Yes. And who is aware of this?

Q: Sorry…? [Repeat, please]

A: And who is aware of this?

Q: You are aware of this. Very good. And only Awareness is here. Then, even as an inference, we can see that I must be Awareness Itself…, but I don’t want you to infer. We must just keep checking:

What is the distinction between this ‘I’ that is aware and the Awareness Itself?

Just look for one difference between the ‘I’ that is aware of Awareness, and the Awareness Itself.

Q: [Silence] It’s moving around a little bit.

A: So, what’s moving around? Attention can move about. That’s okay. Who is aware of that?

Q: I am aware of that. I don’t even know what’s moving.

A: Yes. [Chuckles]

Q: It just feels like I’m going around with something. It doesn’t matter.

A: This question is the greatest auspiciousness. Let anything that is meant to happen, happen. [Silence] This ‘I’ which is aware…, how is this ‘I’ different than Awareness Itself?

Q: [Silence]

First Q from above: Does the attention have to go there? Because it’s all over the place. So, to recognize itself, does the attention have to stay there?

A: No. Attention can move about. You yourself said ‘Who is aware of this attention?’ If automatically, in the questioning, you find that attention comes here, it’s fine. But you don’t have to force it. It’s effortless.

Another Q: Father, there is nothing that I’m conscious of which is out of my scope of attention.

A: Yes, but that’s not what my question is.

This ‘I’ that is aware, what is the one point of distinction between this ‘I’ and Awareness Itself?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Now, what is the thing? I said ‘Let attention move about wherever it wants’…, let it go. So you don’t wander off with a question about that.

This ‘I’ that is aware of Awareness, what is the difference between It and Awareness?

Now, attention is moving…?

Q: How is any exploration possible without the light of Consciousness, without the movement of attention, watching that exploration?

A: Without the movement of attention, you’re saying? Yes. But here, when I say ‘Are you aware now?’.., it is just Known, isn’t it?…, prior to attention, prior to any other movement. The reporting requires movement, but we’re not so interested in the reporting.

The ‘I’ that is aware, how is it different from Awareness?

Just spot one difference. The question is that simple.

A: [Asks someone else in the room] How are you doing with this?

Q: There is no difference.

A: There is no difference. So, this ‘I’ that is aware IS Awareness Itself?

Q: [Nods yes]

A: … Is Awareness Itself. Okay.

How many of you are coming to this recognition? [Looks around room and online hangout faces]. Very good. Very good.

Another Q: Father, the point is that there is not complete understanding of this Awareness so there is not complete understanding about this ‘I’ also, and therefore it is not that easy to answer your question.

A: So, you’re saying you’re NOT aware? You’re not sure whether you’re aware?

Q: Yes, I am aware. But I’m saying there’s not full understanding.

A: Are you sure you’re aware? No, I’m serious. Are you sure you’re aware?

Q: Yes.

A: This is full understanding.

You have not understood it mentally, because nobody can understand Awareness mentally. You can make some reports on it, which can be very beautiful, but that’s not the point.

You say ‘I am sure I am aware’. This is all I need. This is all we need.

So, then we are asking: This ‘I’ which is aware, how is it distinct from the Awareness Itself?

First Q: It’s not, Father.

A: It’s not distinct from the Awareness. Okay. So, when we say ‘I am aware’…, it’s the same as saying ‘Awareness is aware’? Same?

Q: I think that the toughest time here is that ‘I’ has always been pointed out as an entity. And this is not an entity.

A: Exactly.

Q: Because there is nobody there.

A: Yes. So, because ‘I’ has been used in another way, and yet…, there’s been a deeper Knowing of the truth about ‘I’ always also. Only that in this realm, we’ve used the ‘I’ to denote the body / mind. Therefore, now we’re coming to this non-phenomenal ‘I’. But it is important to recognize that It Is this ‘I’. You see?

This is what Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] was pointing to when he said ‘The ‘I’ removes the ‘I’ and yet remains the ‘I’. So the false ‘I’ is removed, but the true ‘I’ which is Awareness Itself remains.

Now, the point is we’ve all heard these words. Now I’m provoking you into the recognition of this which the mind will use every trick to try and evade; it will use everything possible to try and evade. But it’s so simple actually that you cannot miss it.

You will only miss it if you’re looking for an object or an entity or some ‘thing’. But what This Is is prior to that; it is simpler than that. It is not a phenomenal finding. You have been looking for the ‘I’ in the wrong place. You have been looking for ‘I’ phenomenally. You have been looking for ‘I’ in the by-products. But now we are just simply seeing that this has always been the truth, and that there has always been this awareness of it.

Isn’t it?

Previous Q: Father, it feels like I can’t find the difference because I can’t find the ‘I’.

A: Yes. And yet we say ‘I can’t find the I’. So, this ‘I’ [Chuckles] is always here, you see? It’s always here. Because You are aware; it is not anyone else. You are aware. Is this true?

Q: This is true.

A: This is true. This is clear! I am aware. You see? You cannot find the ‘I’ is exactly what I’m saying. You cannot find it phenomenally; that’s why it is confusing to the mind. And yet, most naturally, we say ‘I am aware’…, without even the effort to try and find the ‘I’. Because I is what You Are…, this Awareness Itself.

[Silence]

That’s why I say to try the other way: Don’t be aware. Try to not be aware. Try to exist without being aware.

Don’t get lost in the semantics. Just try to push away awareness, and exist without it. (Don’t say ‘sense of existence is that…’ Don’t get stuck with all that): Don’t be aware.

Can you find an independent entity outside of this Awareness, which owns this Awareness?

[Silence]

There must be an experience or there must be some validation of this non-awareness; yet that is never our experience. This Awareness is un-miss-able. The phenomenal ‘I’ I cannot find…, (except the most Immaculate phenomena, I Am Itself, which is the first modulation of this ‘I’. (Okay, but let’s not go there right now).

This ‘I’ that is aware, ‘I am aware’…, this ‘I’…, how is it distinct from Awareness?

Why do we say ‘I am aware’? Why don’t we say ‘The room is aware or the chair is aware’? Why do we say ‘I am aware’? You see? We don’t say ‘The body is aware’. We say ‘I am aware’. You see?

Other Q: My awareness. .. [Inaudible]

A: Yes, so this ‘My awareness’ is whose awareness? This ‘I’ whose awareness it is…, how is that different from the Awareness Itself? You see…, ‘My awareness. My!’ Who is this ‘I’ whose awareness it is? How is it distinct from Awareness? How are we able to report this with so much confidence? You see?

So, look at that. Look at that. How is any of this clear? [Silence]

How do I confirm I am aware?

Why do I use these words ‘I am aware’?

Why would I say ‘I am aware’ if it was not the truth?

And yet, this Awareness is not seen phenomenally. It is just aware of Itself. It is a primal Knowing of Knowingness Itself.

Q: It’s like when you ask the question ‘Is Awareness Aware of itself?’ it feels like the ultimate. If that is really clearly recognized then everything falls into a null. It’s just like; I just describe it just like the circuit is closed. It just feels like everything is complete. But that recognition takes effort here. I don’t know why. Every time I ask you it takes effort to recognize if …

A: It can seem like that. That’s why we have pointers. You know?

Q: But it’s like the ultimate question.

A: So when I ask you ‘Who is aware of this Awareness?’ you see that Awareness itself is aware of itself. Then what happens?

Q: Why don’t I see it so clearly Father? Why am I not like saying ‘Yes’?

A: Say the ‘no’ part, what is the block?

Q: I know that I know.

A: Yes, exactly that is what I am saying. But it’s not mental; it’s not a conceptual knowing. We have to clarify that. Because many can know Awareness as a concept but the true knowing of itself is simpler than that. You’re saying the trouble is what? You say ‘I know that I know’. ‘I am Aware that I am Aware’.     But …?

Q: I don’t know what the ‘but’ is. It doesn’t seem satisfactory, though.

A: Same question now; same question. So what should feel satisfied? What should feel complete? Joy should come?

Q: It’s like this moment, this moment.

A: Yes. This moment, what is incomplete?

Q: There is a sense that I am saying ‘I know, I know’ but is it really true? Am I really saying it from….?

A: Okay, what part of it could be false? Let’s narrow it down.

Some of you who are new to Satsang might find this conversation strange but that’s okay for a few days. Because this we have to drill down upon sometimes.

Which part could be false? ‘I know?’ or ‘I know that I know?’ or the whole thing?

Q: Lets just go with this ‘I know’ first. I was just watching something last night and you asked ‘How do you know? Why do you not say I taste?’ This question feels very relevant and I went to sleep with it. But it’s still not like sinking in. I want it to sink in.

A: So, keep this ‘I’ that wants something out of the picture.

So we said that ‘Why do we say I know or I am Aware? Why don’t we say I taste Being? Or why don’t we say I smell Being?’ We say ‘I am Aware of this Being’. So, we know what Awareness is. That is why we say ‘I am Aware of Being’. Just like we know what smell is, what taste is, what hearing is, what sight it. And yet this Awareness, when compared to all other types of phenomenon, this one exhibits no attributes. It just is.

Also Radhika can say about this because she had the same question.

Q: I feel very agitated about it.

A: Yes. But can we come to a point now that we are not so concerned about what emotions are coming up, about what thoughts are coming up? Can we keep them aside for some time and continue to look?

Let the agitation come. Its okay. It’s come many times. It goes. It’s fine. All this coming and going, if we can keep it aside and say:

What is it?

What is at the root of this?

I am aware.

What is this Awareness?

Is that which is aware separate from Awareness?

Q: No.

A: It’s not separate. Then? So if we keep the realm of emotions, thoughts, appearances, sounds, distractions, all that aside for some time and just focus on this:

Who knows Awareness?

Who is aware of Awareness?

It is ‘I’…, it is ‘I’. But which ‘I’ is this one?

Is it a phenomenal ‘I’?

Is it a void ‘I’?

It is a light ‘I’?

Which ‘I’ is this one?

[Silence]

Don’t leave this question. It is really the root of ‘Who am I?’

[Silence]

Now, don’t sell this question for something cheaper.

I am aware.

This ‘I’ is which one?

What separates it from this Awareness Itself?