BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

I was looking for this one and I found this beautiful book. Maybe I can read a little bit from this one and then we can go to Bankei; or we’ll see how it goes. So, this book is called ‘Swampland Flowers: The letters and lectures of Zen master, Ta Hui.’ The first letter is called ‘Clear the Mind.’

“Buddha said, if you want to know the realm of Buddhahood, you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave false thinking and all grasping far behind, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn. The realm of Buddhahood is not some external world where there is a formal Buddha. It is the realm of the wisdom of an awakened Sage.”

“Once you are determined that you want to know this realm, you do not need adornment, cultivation, or realization to attain it. You must clear away the stains of afflictions from alien sensations that have been on your mind since beginning-less time, so that your mind is as broad and open as empty space.”

“Detached from all the clinging of the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal, vain thoughts, too, are like empty space. Then this wondrous effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes.”

It’s very much like what we’re sharing in Satsang. I can read it again slowly.

“Buddha said, if you want to know the realm of Buddhahood, you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave false thinking and all grasping far behind, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn.”

Like also in the beginning of the Ashtavakra Gita, the King Janaka asked ‘What is true knowledge?’ So, this also starts in a similar way where Buddha is saying:

“If you want to know the realm of Buddhahood …” (presumably to know the Truth) “… you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave false thinking and all grasping far behind.”

So, now we’ve been seeing this everyday that when it says ‘Leave it far behind’ … it already IS That. That seemingly-difficult part is already done. You’ve left it behind now, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn. So, there’s this big openness. Everything is allowed to come and go.

Now, many times when the Buddhists use the term ‘mind’ they are speaking of Being. They are speaking of just Being-ness. What we would call Being-ness, they would call the pure mind; and then, they would call the false mind is what we call the egoic mind or the limited mind.

“The realm of Buddhahood is not some external world where there is a formal Buddha. It is the realm of the wisdom of a self-awakened Sage.”

So, don’t try to get it outside. Don’t try to get it as an experience. Don’t try to find this Truth or this Buddha like you will experience one object. Don’t try to find it as an objective experience; not some external world. This is what I mean by don’t try to find it by some objective experience of Truth or Buddha.

“It is the realm of the wisdom…” (or I would call it ‘the simple recognition’) “… of the Self awakened Sage. Once you are determined that you want to know this realm…”

What does it actually mean ‘determined that you want to know this realm’? It is to come to this place where you just want Truth for Truth’s sake. You don’t want a by-product, you don’t want some experience because of it, you don’t want your life to change; you just want to know This.

“…you do not need adornment, cultivation or realization to attain it.”

Once you want Truth for Truth’s sake, then no other prerequisites are there, not even realization.

“You must clear away the stains of afflictions from alien sensations that have been on your mind since beginning-less time so that your mind is as broad and empty as empty space … detached from all the clinging.”

And what is the clinging to? Clinging of the discriminating intellect. I like this verse very much because ‘the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal, vain thoughts too, are like empty space.’ So, what is the sentence?

“All you have to do is clear away these stains.”

Which are the stains? The clinging of the discriminating intellect. What is this discriminating intellect? It makes the interpretation, the judgment ‘Yes, no. Good, bad.’ We make these distinctions, these discriminations. That’s what we’ve been speaking about and that’s why I’ve been saying that those who are truly open are those who are completely with a tired intellect; who try using the intellect to get to this Truth and come to various conclusions based on their reasoning, judgment, intellect and say ‘This is it. This is not it. This is it. This is not it.’ They have tried all these tactics, all these conclusions, and they come to a place where their intellect is tired. They are seeing that ‘All these conclusions I made but I can’t rest on them.’

So, you are away from ‘the clinging of the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal, vain thoughts too are like empty space.’ They can all come and go in this empty space of You.

“Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes.”

Then Your Being is just being. [Silence]

Now, this discriminating intellect is very sneaky because even upon hearing these words, it will make a judgment about them and say ‘Yes, this is what I have to do now.’ But even that conclusion is from the intellect, so let go of that also.

Q: Father, can you make that clearer?

A: Yes, in the sense that intellect uses concepts for its conclusions. So, intellect is that which is using these concepts as evidence for its conclusions. So, then it says ‘The world is like this.’ Now, it will say ‘This is true. This, therefore, this. Yesterday, he did something which was bad so he must be a bad person.’ You see? All the inferences, all this inferring capability is intellect; it’s all mind. But if you were to make these segregations, you would say ‘reasoning, judgment’ as intellect, and you would call the appearance of just these concepts as just ‘mind’. So, it’s an aspect of the mind, in a way. It’s like our ability to reason, to discriminate between even true and false concepts. Concept is concept. And when we say ‘Yes, yes’ when we give belief, we use our intellect to discriminate between true and false. That is the intellect. So, in a way, it is to exercise the power of belief; to use our intellect. It’s using that power to give something truth value. ‘Yes, yes. No, no.’ So, these discriminations even of true and false, right and wrong, yes and no, is the intellectual capacity of the mind, in a way; of the Being, in a way.

So, if clinging to the discriminating intellect, all you have to do, according to the Sage (if there is a ‘doing’) it is to not cling to this discriminating intellect.

Q: Not to make any conclusions.

A: Yes, even of this.

Q: How does ‘doing’ and brain’s thinking use this?

A: Yes, it’s coming after this.

“The discriminating intellect and your false, unreal, vain thoughts, too, are like empty space.”

So, in the space of Your Being, the arising of these thoughts (which are all false, unreal, vain) does not affect the space so they also remain like space. When you’re not discriminating that ‘This is a thought; this is not’ then all is empty space.

It’s very nice. “Detached from all the clinging of the discriminating intellect and your false, unreal, vain thoughts, too, are like empty space.” You’re not even discriminating between thought and not-thought, like mind and no-mind. We don’t even make that distinction.

Q: What about discernment?

A: Ultimately, even discernment has to dissolve. Like, you can use discernment in the sense of

‘This is changing, therefore, it cannot be the Reality of Me.’ So, you can use this power to discern that which is the changing vs. the Unchanging, the Real vs. the unreal.

But as you come to that recognition, then even this duality of false and true, real and unreal, changing and unchanging, start to dissolve. So, discernment is a useful provisional step, wherein you would say ‘Okay, I’m really clinging onto something which is just changing. This is not going to bring any permanent joy into my life.’ You see? That can be discernment. But after a point, you come to this where you’re not taking the position of even making a distinction between real and unreal.

You can also forget about ‘after a point’ because we’re talking about a typical journey. But we can forget about all those notions also. Like, if you forgot about this discriminating intellect, and allowed everything to come and go, and you’re not discriminating between even space and not-space, Being and not-Being; none of these apply anymore, then …?

What does he say?

“Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes.”

This is just some reassurance, some carrot; something. ‘You’ll be fine, you’ll be fine.’ But actually, then, if you let go of the discriminating intellect, then impeded, unimpeded; coming, going; all of that is just notional. This is just an answer to the mind, like ‘If I do this, then what will happen?’ which is still coming from the intellect, you see? It’s still adding inferences.

So, the Sage is reassuring you, saying, “Then this wondrous, effortless mind will be unimpeded wherever it goes.”

[Reading from ‘Swampland flowers by Ta Hui]: This one says: “Tend the Ox.”

“Since you are studying this path then, at all times, in your encounters with people and responses to circumstances, you must not let wrong thoughts continue. If you cannot see through them, then the moment the wrong thought comes up…”  (Okay, we will see. We might have to review this one a bit.) “If you cannot see thought them, then the moment the wrong thought comes up, you should quickly concentrate your mental energy to pull yourself away. If you always follow these thoughts and let them continue without a break then not only does this obstruct the path but it makes you out to be a man without wisdom.” [Smiles]

“In the old days Queue Shaun asks Lazy Ann…” [Laughter in the room]

“… Queue Shaun asks Lazy Ann, ‘What work do you do during twenty-four hours of the day?”

Ann said ‘I tend an Ox.’

Queue Shaun said ‘How do you tend it?’

Ann said ‘Whenever it gets into the grass, I pull it back by the nose.’ [Smiles]

Queue Shaun said ‘You are really tending the ox.’”

“People who study the path in controlling wrong thoughts should like lazy Ann tending his Ox. Then gradually, a wholesome ripening will take place of itself.”

‘Then gradually, a wholesome ripening will take place of itself.’ This passage is similar to what Bhagavan [Sri Raman Maharshi] said in terms of  ‘As long as it feels like effort, make the effort then one day you will see that this is also grace.’ Because many times, we can get into this sort of mental ‘non-doership.’ Like ‘Who am I to not believe my thoughts?’ [Chuckles] ‘I am not the doer.’ This kind of ‘too much’ conceptual Advaita.

Sangha: Position.

A: That’s like you make a position, you see. So just, if it feels like a bit of an effort to step back from these positions or when you at least caught that ‘Ah, this was a position’ just notice that without applying a position on top of it. ‘Oh, that just happened, and it’s fine’ or something like that. It is neither fine nor not fine. Just noticing it is enough. But not to make a conclusion about yourself based on that; even the conclusion that ‘Either I am the doer or not-doer.’ Because this use of Advaita knowledge to make positions then becomes very sticky. [Smiles] So, even now some of you might be holding this ‘But, but, but …, but this what I was going to say.’ [Chuckles] Like that. You can see that it’s just the mind. Just your noticing is enough. You don’t have to take a shovel to dig it out. You don’t have to do anything. There is no such shovel anyway. [Smiles] But don’t add onto more concepts about yourself based on what you have learned spiritually.

What is that Zen Master’s thing I posted on Facebook the other day? ‘Many of us go out looking for the donkey, riding the donkey. [Chuckles] Once we see that we are mounting this donkey, then we refuse to get off it’ [Chuckles] in a way. The Master said ‘These are the only two sicknesses he encounters.’

‘Looking for the donkey’ …, where is the mind’ (What is it?) ‘My mind is saying that the mind is causing all this trouble.’ (It’s a nice one.) [Laughs] He says ‘There are two sicknesses in the school: First is to go looking for the donkey while riding the donkey.’ [Chuckles] Like Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] said ‘The thief posing as the policeman trying to catch the thief.’ And the second sickness is the refusal to get off it once you’ve mounted it. And this refusal to get off the donkey once we’ve mounted it is our need to be right. ‘I have invested in this concept so maybe it will work out. I really want it to work out.’ [Laughs] In a way, the story of the prodigal son. The father is waiting for him to come back home. All the riches, everything is available but ‘Because I have taken the step, my ego could not let me bow down and come back. Just not admit that I was wrong, that my true place is in my father’s house.’ It says ‘I will make it and show you! I will make it and show you! I will make it and show you!’ So, we mounted the donkey and we’re like ‘I am going to make this donkey to walk me to heaven.’ [Laughs] ‘I’ll find a way.’ So, trying to find happiness while continuing to ride our ego is like that. Because we have invested in these ideas about ourselves, we feel like ‘At least something should come out of it.’ [Chuckles]

All of us can see by now that the ego is a lost cause? Or no? [Chuckles] Then write it off. [Laughter] And see that it’s a lost cause. Don’t try to get some scraps from it, some investment, at least something. Like ‘It could still work if I become enlightened. It could still work; all of this struggle could be worthwhile if I become enlightened.’ That itself becomes the donkey. Let go of all expectations, all references to this one, to this ‘me’.

What did the Sage say after that?  He said ‘How to be free of the donkey? See that you are the donkey.’ [Laughs] This ‘me’. I would have said ‘This ‘me’ is the donkey.’ And then he went further and said ‘This world is the donkey.’ But as you let go of this ‘me’ donkey then it is easily seen that the world is also just another appearance. You don’t have to ‘let go’ of the world, you just have to let go of the ‘me’ in a sense. And then you see, already you have let go of the world.

Like Now! in your notion-less Existence, can you say ‘world, not world’? Are these distinctions still there? Like the mind will still sell you a story ‘But these appearances are still there, they come and they go.’ But these are also notions; conclusions. All conclusions are just notions. Like it says ‘But I am, I still am.’ But the ‘I Am’ is not dependent on ‘But I still am.’ That is still a notion. Like I was saying on the other day ‘To sit, you don’t have to say ‘I am sitting, I am sitting, I am sitting.’ We just feel like ‘At least this concept, I need to exist.’ But you don’t need any concept to Exist. All of this just makes you boxed into your limited, egoic idea of yourself.

Should we make a ‘master list’ of our limited notions? [Laughs] A master list of all of these things that are all just made up like our projections into the future, that ‘This is what my future should be like.’ Can we throw it? Or not? ‘This is what my future should be like’ …, gone?

Anybody who wants, can call out now, otherwise … [Makes gesture of gone. Laughter]

No good can come out of it, agreed? No idea about the future. And all regrets from the past? All regrets from the past’ …, any good can come out of those? [Laughs] No.

Looks like we need some time to … [Laughter] Do I feel like my Sangha has gotten emptier than they actually are? [Laughter] I was expecting that there is just going to be like full on ‘Yes! Yes! Yes!’ But like ‘Regrets from the past…’ [Makes a gesture of thinking] ‘…give us a moment.’ [Laughter] I was going to get to the sticky ones, which is pride from the past, but regret also we are not so sure of. [Laughs]

All our notions are about these things; all our notions are about time. Making a delusion about an independent existence, a separate self, and trying to define ourselves in various terms. And they can safely be thrown away, all of these. I feel like we are willing to throw out the bigger boxes, just like straight away.

What about the notion of the time itself? [Chuckles] What about space? Have you ever experienced time? Then why have the idea of it?

Q: Mind. Mind projects time.

A: Yes, yes, yes, mind … well, projects notions about time. [Chuckles]

Q: Time itself is a notion.

A: ‘Time itself is a notion’ exactly. So, what about space? Experienced it? [Chuckles] Never experienced space. We cannot truly say where ‘What Is’ is; if there is anything called distance in Reality. Like I was joking saying (half-jokingly) ‘All of this could just be just projected on the eye’ [Chuckles] We feel like ‘Oh, that is there’ but what if it was actually just light here. That is also giving too much credence to this body identity. [Chuckles] So, we have no way of confirming neither time, nor space. And all our ideas about life are in time and space.

I say to you that when you are empty of notions, the complete truth of what You are is apparent to You.

Q: The complete truth about you.

The complete truth. (I can hold that notion. [Chuckles] You be empty of notions.) What is it like when you are empty of ideas?

Q: Simply there; I mean simply existing, nothing…

Even that is the pointer, no? When you say ‘I simply exist when I’m empty of notions’ even that is just a word you have to use because I’m asking you the question and you’re trying to explain it to me. There is no intent of simply existing is what I mean. When you’re empty of notions, you’re not carrying the idea ‘I have to exist’. You’re not holding up existence with an idea.

Q: It is natural.

Just natural. So, this is what I call ‘What now?’ Okay, once you start holding up anything at all then you move to ‘me-ow.’ [Smiles] Who moves? God, in this Lela [play of Consciousness] even in all Its pretense, It can never actually become limited. You see? You can never become ‘personal’. All-There-Is can never become an object, just a body.

Q: Yes, the more you stay out of notions, more things will dissolve on its own.

A: Yes. That’s why [Zen Master] Bankei said ‘All things are perfectly resolved in the unborn.’ It is not small statement. It means ALL THINGS are perfectly resolved in the unborn. And what is this ‘born’ he is talking about? When we give birth to this limited identity, when we give birth to this limited notion about ourselves.

Q: And the forces which we keep going like a rubber band keep going back to the same ….

A: That is the force of habit, in a way.

Q: Just force of habit?

A:  Yes, because you are pulled into this over and over again, even in this lifetime. You can see, even in this lifetime, our parents would have taught us that ‘This is hand and this is head.’ If it were true knowledge, you would just be born knowing that ‘This is our hand, this is our head and this is our nose; this is what you have to do, these are the things you want.’ But, all of these things were taught to us. What you should want was taught to us from the world …, or at least this aspect of the world that we call the mind. If it comes from parents or so-called society then it came from this inner mind.

That old example, no? … that somebody had a role in a play and started taking it so seriously that even when they were not acting in the play or when the performance was not on, they were still identified with that character. [Smiles]

As much as the mind wants it …, as much belief as Consciousness wants to give to it, do not fully, fully, fully get identified. Because in every moment of your existence you are experiencing your un-limitedness actually. So, your true insight, your true seeing about yourself is always contrary to what the message is that the mind is trying to sell to you. That is why it is so unsteady.

The ‘person’ is the most unsteady thing. How we are changing, how we are having different ideas…, what it believes right now it takes it as ‘This is definitely true’. Tomorrow it has another idea that becomes true. One day attached to this one, one day attached to that one; one day wanting this, next day wanting something else. So many ideas of self-image are constantly changing. ‘I should be like this; I should be like that. I should live life like this. My house should be like this.’ It’s constantly changing. It’s the most unstable thing because there is no solidity in that. It is just a bundle of ideas.

And it is such a crazy thing. [Smiles] Like as our ideas change then we want everyone else’s ideas around us also to change. When we’re not spiritual, we wanted everyone else to be not spiritual. I hated my parent’s spirituality. I was like ‘Why do you waste your time every Sunday going for your sad song?’ Like that, I used to say. [Chuckles] When I became this brand of spirituality, I wanted them to have this brand of spirituality. It’s the most fickle thing. Like ‘My opinions are the best, they are the right-est. They must be true.’ And yet, they’re constantly changing.

Look at our relationships. You know, when they start it’s ‘Oh, I love you so much because we are so different. You know opposites always attract? I love the fact that you are so different.’ Just spend enough time with them, and they’re like ‘Why can’t you be little more like me? Then we could have happy life.’ Then somebody changes and become exactly likes you. And you say ‘You are so boring. There is no excitement left in our life.’ You see? [Smiles]

There is no peace to be found in that. It is constantly changing.

Q: So, Father, you know I know this. This is the very discouraging part about everything. You know? Because I know this. I even have told about my experiences of where everything was gone; I was light.

A: You have to wait for a moment; maybe I will stop you there for a moment. Now, don’t know this. Because that is also a conclusion. Like, drop all knowing and not-knowing. Because anything that you know will be suffering. It is just the past. It is just a corpse. What you are saying is ‘I know this because I’ve had some experiences of this.’ You have been in Satsang before, you heard me say this and you can feel like you can make a conclusion about the same: I know this. So, don’t know this. Just leave that. Leave ‘knowing’ and ‘not-knowing’ then you can’t be either encouraged or discouraged. It is empty of these opposites.

Q: Father, I want very much to be obedient to what you are instructing me to do. When I was first folding towels (when I was at work a few years ago) I noticed the past. And I used Mooji’s guidance to what I believe was … actually, I found myself. Then that felt like I had a notion there; there was experience, there was a notionless existence. Right? There was just space and all that. And I know these are just some experiences. But that experience I would like to recognize as what I am. There…, no God, no nothing. Right? In the fact that happened, I believe that’s how it should be. If that makes sense. Like the fact that he pointed to was there once before and then it just kind of faded. Like, I guess, that is like the point I’m trying to be established in. Is that making any sense? So, the fact that anything else the mind will offer is a different kind of stuff, so it came up. Why it is still coming up? I just don’t know. I just feel very, very confused and very discouraged, honestly. And I promise I want to listen to what you say and for everything else to not stick. I don’t know what more I can do. And I actually try even not to do anything. But I’m not satisfied with it and I feel like I’m even wasting your time. I don’t want to come before you with more of this.

A: Good, good, good, good. So, this is very good that you point this out. Because just like this, it can happen for many of us is that we can have a spiritual experience where it can feel like ‘Ah, that is it! It’s so clear. There is no me.’ And then everything in our life becomes a reference point to that so-called experience. We might even call it an awakening excrescence. But that is not freedom.

Freedom means not to have a constant reference point about something in the past. Because we can’t truly say anything about the past which we can truly say is true. So, if something needs a reference point of coming from the past, then it is better that we let go of it, even if it seems like the best experience we ever had. Because our truth, the truth which is pointed to in Satsang, is not an experience. An experience can be a by-product of That but It, in Itself, is not an experience.

It is our spiritual experience, many times, which can become like chains around us. Because our conclusions rely on those experiences.

So, everything is naturally thrown out.

You don’t have to do anything at all now.

It is gone Now.

What I want to say is that all that I’ve said, all that I’ve pointed to is:

Forget about the opposites, and ‘That’ is naturally just Here Now.

Now, the mind will come and offer some conclusions. It will say ‘You are like this, you have been like that.’ Just let them come and go. And don’t believe the mind when it is says ‘It’s like that. This is effort. Am I the doer?’ All these smart things will also come from the mind. Just watch all these like the traffic comes and goes. You don’t have to cross the road.

You don’t have to transcend anything; nothing at all.

It’s not complex. The mind will make it complex. Just know, as it all starts to seem a bit difficult and complex …, know that this is the mind. Just step back; let the traffic come and go. Let all the opposites will come and go. You do not have to bother with them at all.

You can come up [on camera to talk or ask questions in online satsang] as many times as you want. You don’t have to make conclusions that ‘I don’t want to come. I want it to be Now.’ All of these can just come and go. And life can unfold in its own natural way.

Don’t be hard on yourself.

Don’t be soft on yourself.

Just don’t have any position about yourself.

Q: ‘Me’ is a super persistent idea in my head. It is hard-wired, it seems, Father.

A: Actually, it is gone. Gone, GONE. [Snaps fingers] It is gone.

That it is hard-wired is also just an idea. That it is super-persistent is also an idea. If it was so persistent, it will survive this Now, Now. [Snaps fingers] All your references about you are gone Now …, unless you think about it. So, that thinking is needed before you make a reference. All your references about you are gone Now; unless you think about it. Before that, thinking is needed before you can make a reference about yourself. (When I am saying ‘thinking’ I’m not talking about the process of appearance of thoughts but I am talking about giving our assent to it, giving our belief to it; saying that ‘Yes, this is truth.’)

Q: If the ‘me’ idea is at the root, I would love to be free of it.

A: Free of it, You are. [Smiles] You Are. You are free from it; of it. It cannot hold You actually. It is struggling to catch up with You. Every moment, it is the poor guy chasing You down. You have already become fresh and new; an infant. Then, the mind is trying to catch up: ‘This, this, this, but, but, but, this, this…’

Q: Wait, wait…

A: Yeah exactly; wait, wait. So, when you identify with that then you feel like you are the struggler because this poor mind is trying to catch up with Being. [Smiles] You are free from it. You are fresh and new: Right Now, in this moment.

Who is the one that is struggling? This one trying to catch up with it. ‘But, but, give me a moment and I will tell you why you are not free.’ [says the thought] It needs time, You do not.

It needs an explanation, You don’t. It needs the references; the mind, not You. And when you as Consciousness identify as if you are the mind then it can seem like you are struggling.

Can you struggle with no-mind?

Q: You are not struggling when you are sleeping.

Q: I felt like I’m basically faking it to make it; this kind of thing. Because I know what you’re saying is true. I know it. So, what more can be said, right? I try to be happy and express love. That may not be the best thing, but at the moment, it feels like that. [I say to myself]: ‘This is what you have.’ Right? But there’s a feeling like I’m faking it because I’m trying to make it. I’m trying to make this happiness happen. I am trying to make this peace happen; this peace that I already know is here. That’s how I feel. Sometimes I feel like this can be discouraging, very discouraging. But then I try not to touch it, the scene, the discouraging scene. [I say to myself]: ‘What Father says is true. All you have to do is to trust Guru’s words.’ I know that. But then these establishment things that we talked about before and I didn’t accept myself. [I say to myself]: ‘Don’t interpret it, don’t interpret it.’ I’m like ‘Why is this narrative still going on?’ Then I feel like ‘Just be quiet, just be quiet.’ I’m still waiting for the outcome of just what I think needs to happen. And I just feel like I will fake it till I make it. And I know I am the Self, I know I am peace. [I say to myself]: ‘Whatever Father is, I know I am that myself. I am Ramana, I am Mooji, I am all that.’ But something is not there. And I don’t want to be a fraud. I just want whatever needs to be. And then I get discouraged like ‘Okay, I don’t want to be a fraud. I just want to have a clean heart, clear mind. I just want how things supposed to be.’

A: This is a good report again, my dear. It is a beautiful report. What can happen is that this mind makes these two separate opposites like ‘They are all the Masters, and I am like them. There is no difference. Father says that we are one; we are the same.’ And then the opposite of that is ‘I am such a fraud, I am faking it. It is not true because I still have this, and I get angry, and sometimes this happens, so I am just a fraud and this is not being full of integrity.’

So, what I want to say (to all of you actually) is: Drop both the opposites. Even if it is a bit uncomfortable, to drop the opposites and to not know where you are standing.

You are neither like this nor like that, neither full of integrity nor a fraud, neither like a Sage nor like a seeker, not completely truthful, not completely lying; neither of these. Just drop all of these opposites because all of them are just ideas.

And it’s okay to be a bit wobbly, not knowing where you stand. It can feel a bit wobbly, not knowing where you stand. ‘Am I this way or that way?’ But then this not-knowing, it feels like stress, it feels like the tension of not-knowing. Actually, this tension of not-knowing, in a way, does a good clean up job. And then it starts to feel more and more natural.

Then if I tell you ‘Now you must now make a conclusion about yourself’ you will say ‘No, Father, I’m so happy not knowing whether I am a Sage or I’m a liar. I’m just so happy not knowing.’ Although initially, it might feel like ‘Without these conclusions, I’m lost. This is limbo. I don’t know whether this is left or right. What is Father saying? I’m confused.’ It will feel a bit strange and wobbly. But as you come to that, and start getting used to this spaciousness in a way, then you will find it very difficult to make a conclusion about yourself; whether you are a fraud or you are no different from a Sage. You will not find it easy to make these conclusions. In fact, you will find that your mouth will speak lots of things, but you find that inwardly you are not attached to any of those things. You’ll feel ‘Just like other mouths speak, this mouth will also speak.’ Right now, I know it may look like I’m speaking these words, I’m making these conclusions; it can feel like that. But if you allow yourself to remain without making a conclusion about yourself …, like I’ve said to many of you now: I am neither speaking the truth nor am I lying. This is where your mind cannot go.

Now, what can happen is that it can seem too strange, it can seem too weird. ‘Father, what am I supposed to do? Is it fine?’ What I’m saying is throw out these opposites. ‘What am I supposed to do, not-do; is it fine, not fine; am I living with integrity or am I lying?’ You can just throw them out. In fact, they are thrown out already, naturally. Naturally; all gone! So, don’t pick them up.

You know, I feel that the lies are easy for you now, in the sense that to drop the lies is easy for you now. It is to drop the truth that you’re struggling with.

The entire seeker identity is built on the notion of trying to get to some ultimate truth. But as I’ve been showing all of you, within this conceptual boundary of biggest lie and biggest truth is all your concepts, including the boundary itself.

This defines your mental constructs or the boundaries of your limitations that you put onto yourself. And the basis for this boundary is the centrality of this idea of ‘me’. Because everything is relative to this ‘me. You will not hold onto it even as the truth unless it has something to do with you. So that locus, that relationship, is dependent on this lie called ‘me’. And it is our ideas of truth also that are feeding into this lie of ‘me’. The Truth is not in any concept but this conceptual ‘me’ feeds on just any concepts that we have.

So, what is it that we are unwilling to let go of? I’ve been saying that if this ‘me’ is no longer pointed to anything at all, then that sounds very easy and straightforward. But you have to tell me: Does it have to point to you, to something which you define as ‘me’? Do you need it to be to mean something, this ‘me’? The one that seemingly is stuck in this delusion of relationships, freedom, security, body …, does that have any real tangible existence; this ‘me’?

Satsang is a strange place where you come to, to feel that ‘Here I can come so I can then be rid of the ‘me’ or where the ‘me’ can now be rid of the ‘me’.’ In a way, it is like that. So, now be rid of it. You came … (unless you wanted something else from Satsang, which is clearly not available here). If you came to be rid of the ‘me’, then be free from it. Let it not refer to anything at all. Especially anything starting with ‘but…’ [Chuckling] Let it not be limited by anything at all especially that which starts with ‘but…’ We play this game ever day, and for many years we’ve been playing this game. [Chuckling]

So, this, when we are empty of this doubt. But ‘Something should happen’ or ‘What about that experience in the past that happened?’ You see, any limiting notion, any boundary. All notions are limiting which you attach to yourself then gives rise to, or gives credence to, this belief system called ego.

Okay, so let’s go slowly since I’m losing some of you. One: Is it clear that you’re not going to get anything here; that is clear? It is not going to be an additive process that you will add something to yourself here; that much is clear? If that is not clear, be clear about that. This process of spirituality is not about adding something to the idea you have about yourself and therefore you will become Spirit. Spirituality does not mean adding Spirit to person. You see? It is only negating the person; it is only negating any idea of separation that you have. So, that much is clear; we’re not going to really add something to ourself, we’re only going to remove. That is important to see first. It is a process of cleaning up, it is a process of removal. You can call it dust, you can call it thorns; whatever the Sages have called it, ‘delusion’.

Now what is being asked of you? What is being asked of you to be rid of? It’s clear that nothing new will be given to you. What is being asked of you to be rid of? This ‘me’, this notion of ‘me’, this belief system called ‘me’. So, now there’s a trick. The trick is that you are rid of it Now. This is not some a magic trick; it is just naturally gifted to us. You are rid of the ‘me’.

Nobody can tell me that they carried the ‘me’ into this freshness Now. Then why does it seem like sometimes we do? Only after what happens? [Silence] Come on children… [Laughter in the room] Okay, I’ll go slowly. Nothing new will be given to you, yes? So, what has to be gotten rid of is thus false sense of separation, separate self, ‘me’. This you’re already rid of, only sometimes it feels like you are not. When does it seem you are not?

Q: When you believe a concept

A: When you believe a concept, a thought, a notion. When you come into a notional existence then you leave behind your notionless existence. So, that’s all that this is about.

Anybody wants anything more than this, it is not here. [Chuckling] This is all there is here. If somebody wants experience, no guarantee. If somebody wants some label or certificate, no guarantee.

That’s all this is. To remove this false ‘me’ all that is needed is to not pick up a notion about yourself. That’s all I’ve said since the beginning of my Satsang career. In millions of different ways, that’s all I’ve actually said. Because if we convey it to be some sort of additive process that you will get something, then would be a big lie in itself. That means that what the Sages have said that ‘The Truth does not come and go, the Self is always here, It is Unchanging’ … then all this would not be true because you would need to add something to yourself to become the Self. So, this we cannot say.

So, what does it take for us to drop the next notion that comes from the seller of notions called the mind? That would also be a notion; any condition would also be an idea.

Now it’s your move.

Just as it is very important to throw away that which we consider are lies, it is also important to throw away that which we consider truth. From your biggest lie to your biggest truth, all the concepts that you have, just let them go. Then you see clearly. The Truth’s Truth, which is beyond the verbal or conceptual truth, is not dependent on any idea you have about it.

Just like you don’t need any concept to sit exactly where you’re sitting right now. Is there some concept keeping you sitting? Are you chanting ‘Sitting, sitting, sitting’? [Chuckling] In the same way, you don’t have to say ‘Self, Self, Self’. Like I said, one concept you can keep as a reminder but know that this also destructs itself or dissolves in its own light.

One simple tip is that if something has an opposite, then forget about it. It is not true. If something has an opposite forget about it and there is no neutral thought. [Looks around the room] What do you think about that? [Laughter] Don’t go there … [Chuckles]

Q: Do you want to know?

A: No, I’m just pointing out the tendency that even the instruction to ‘Let it go’ is then met with this need to draw a conclusion about it and how it can feel a bit lost initially to be without a conclusion. Say we hear “No thought is neutral’ or ‘Forget about everything that’s here’ we still wait for that inner guide, who’s not the true guide, this mind, to come and tell us ‘Yeah, that seems like a good idea, we should try this.’ And then once you have that conclusion …

In your lack of this mental certitude, if you can get used to that, you will discover true open-ness. (But don’t make a conclusion of that!) How lost do you feel if you’re not relying on a concept in this moment? How lost are you without a concept in this moment? [Silence] How about if you left everything mentally unresolved? Because these thoughts are offering some resolution, you see. It says you have to deal with this thing, this problem, whatever it might be, your situation, your event, anything, any perception, you have to deal with it in ‘this way’ and in that there is resolution. But what do the Masters say? Master Bankei says what? ‘All things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn.’ So, either the Master didn’t know what he was talking about and it is the mind that knows, or….

Either way, don’t trust the mind’s resolution. So, the born is what? If the Unborn is this notionless Existence, the born is what? When we pick up the notion of a limited ‘I’, when we pick up the idea of a separate ‘me’, of a separate self, what does your experience tell you? Have you been able to resolve your life through your mind’s tactics? Now get the experience of leaving it Unborn. Taste this Unborn moment, see if anything has to be done, if something is missing? [Silence]

In this Unborn, are you lost or are you found? Is it good or bad? Is there any opposite at play, any duality? Even born and Unborn mean nothing. In the Unborn, even born and unborn mean nothing. Meaning and meaningless both mean nothing.

[Reading from chat]: “How can I see no distinction between ‘me’ and others’? When I stub my toe, pain is experienced but when someone else stubs their toe, there is no experience.”

A: So, what we have to see is…, have you heard of this rubber glove experiment? You can see that. So, what happens in this experiment is that your hand is there but you have put little further off, and there is a screen. Okay, then a plastic hand is there and that has a like a rubber glove on it. So, for a while, what is done is that someone will put a pen or something and make you experience some sensation on your hand but at the same time visually it is done on that rubber glove also. So, within a minute, you start to take ownership of this as your hand and that one is forgotten, the rubber glove one. And when it is brushed and that one is not being touched at all, you are still experiencing the sensations. You are still experiencing the sensations. Then somebody comes with a pin. And then ‘I’m try to move that hand, but it is not moving!’ Because you don’t want that experience of that pin. And they go [makes the sound of the pin hitting something] like that… then you will experience ‘Oh, oh, ho, what are you doing?’ Just like this.

So, within a minute, we can just get identified with this. Just like the dream body. [Smiles] The dream body is there; pain and pleasure is experienced. Also, the more popular one (you don’t even need to see this experiment) … all of us we know about this phantom limb, no? So, if the limb had to be amputated for whatever reason, many times, they can still experience the pain in that or they can still experience an itching. [Smiles] They can experience it. So, just because the design of a dream is such that one body sensation seems more intimate than another body sensation doesn’t prove that you are only that in your dream. In the dream also, there is a body which experiences pain and pleasure and there is are seemingly-other bodies whose sensations you don’t seem to experience. Where is that happening?

So, we can’t conclude this based on some sensation thing. In fact, we were looking at it that day and we were saying that ‘How can you really say that this is a sensation that you are experiencing?’ Like this: [Holds one finger with the other hand] How do you know that the sensation that you are experiencing is actually this, like a material sensation? It could just be in the design of programming. Just like in a 3-D movie, the airplane is crashing; dusushh, dusushh. You see it start shaking and you feel like ‘I am experiencing the shaky-ness of the airplane.’ It’s just the design of this program. At least, if nothing else, you cannot conclude that it is so, that I am experiencing the sensation of my hand. You might not be able to conclude that ‘Okay, it is not my hand or it’s illusion or a dream’ …, you might not even need to make these conclusions but at least you cannot assertively say that ‘I know that this is definitely my hand.’

And the other thing you can watch is (look up on YouTube) ‘The McGurk Effect.’ Now, if there is sound coming from the computer, it is only ’baa, baa, baa, baa’ but because the lips of the character are moving in a different way, as ‘faa, faa, faa’ then you are actually going hear ‘faa, faa, faa.’ And by knowing this also, that this is how it works, it doesn’t help. You will still only hear ‘faa, faa, faa.’  So, what is the actual sound coming from the computer? You are hearing ‘faa’. There is no ‘faa’. So, where is that perception coming from, that sensation coming from: ‘faa’? … ‘faa’ sensation? You know, all of you should watch this video: ‘The McGurk Effect’.

So, where is that?  Like we could so tangibly say ‘From the computer speaker, the sound ‘faa’ must be coming; that is why I am hearing ‘faa’.’ But if you are not looking at the screen, if your eyes are closed, you are hearing only ‘baa, baa, baa’. So, what can we truly say about these perceptions, these sensations? Can we make any authoritative, conclusive statement?  You cannot. You cannot make a conclusive statement. And for me, this lack of conclusion-ability is better than even the conclusion that it is a dream or illusion. So, I’m happy to leave it at that. [Smiles] You cannot say what is. It’s fine by me.

When you start to explore like this, you will see that this mind claims so many things. It claims so many things but it has no basis for any of them. Any of them! You might start a little and say ‘Achha, [Yes] there is no basis for this. No basis for visual conclusion. No basis for audio conclusion, sensational conclusion.’ Already we have looked at these things. Visual, of course; all of us have seen these mirages and things that we can be sure to say ‘Yes, of course, there is that.’ Like Shankara has spoken about visual conclusions much more than any another: the rope and the snake. Or [believing it’s a] piece of silver just because the light of the Moon is reflecting on the mother of pearl. And where a post is being confused to be a man. Usually you can be sure; you can conclude many things. But we cannot really be sure.

Now we talked about this audio conclusions of ‘baa, baa’ verses ‘faa, faa’, phantom limb, rubber glove experiment, in terms of body sensations. So, a lot of this the mind has is claimed to know what it is and where it is from. But it doesn’t know. And as you look more and more and more at all your mind’s claims, you will see that we come to a very beautiful openness, a beautiful innocence of a child who is not relaying on any mental conclusions.

Like I say: A baby is born. Does it have a conclusion that ‘I have to drink milk from my mother’s breast?’ No. And yet it can do it. Just like these waves are flowing; just like these clouds are moving in the sky. Now, suppose the cloud in the play was given this power to identify Consciousness in its aspect as the cloud; suppose it give itself the ability to identify as a cloud. [Smiles] Imagine a cloud saying ‘Shall I go left from here, or right? I’m a bit confused. Should I rain today? Should I hold it until tomorrow?’[Chuckles] Our life is like that. The cloud is saying ‘But how come I don’t experience the water in the other clouds?’ [Chuckles] There’s the one that one says ‘You are the sky. Check the boundary between the sensations of this body and the space outside this body. There isn’t any.’ And then it says ‘Ah, I am the sky.’ And someone says ‘No, but you’re beyond the sky also. What is aware of this sky-ness? Is that in the sky?’ No, it’s not in the sky but I can’t tell you anything about it. But it is ‘I’ which is aware.’ Then someone says ‘Now, drop all distinctions between the sky and that which witness even sky. Can you really point to yourself in anyway?  [Smiles]

So, you went from the cloud identifying as just another appearance…, to coming into this conceptual emptiness, where the ‘I’ actually loses its point-ability, its pointing; its meaning in a sense. So, this ‘me’ loses meaning.

And what can happen many times is that we still have a lot of meaning attached to ‘me.’  But hearing the words of Satsang, they are mis-heard in the sense that we start divesting meaning from everything else in the appearance, but the ‘me’ still has a lot of meaning. And then it can feel like ‘Oh, my life is so meaningless. This has no meaning. My Master is meaningless.’ You see? Everything else; but the ‘me’ is still there; the ‘me’ has a lot of meaning. So, this is like a mental trap that we can fall into.

So, get empty of these even this notion of ‘meaning’ and ‘meaningless-ness.’

Get empty of all that has opposites.

And that is same as saying: Remain in the Unborn.

Or in Your notionless Existence.

No seeker position; no finder position. No passive, tolerant; no assertive, aggressive. All of these are just the ides that we have. All things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn. So, we don’t need to take any sort of stance. You don’t need to give birth to a position.

Q: No strategy about anything.

A: No strategy, no tactics; nothing. [Smiles] That is why I was saying the other day about tactics, na? Sometimes the mind can feel like it is so smart; it will out-smart the ego. We were talking about it the other day. We were saying that ‘Oh, we have discovered that the ego is my tormentor and we’ve also found that it is seems to work like this, that if you resist it more and more, the stronger it seems to become.’ Then we a find a novel way to get rid of it, which is to say that ‘Okay, if I resist it more and more, then it will become stronger. I can’t get rid of it. So, what is my approach to get rid of it? I will love it to death.’ Such a smart tactic we can come up with because it sounds completely reasonable. Because, in the world, if ‘x’ is true then the opposite is false. So, we easily buy in to that idea, that notion, that ‘Actually, I can have a hidden intent which is to get rid of it, but outwardly, I will say I love you. Like, I will hug it outwardly but I’m only hugging it because ultimately I want it to go.’ So, this sort of deviousness. We feel like it will lead to a very quick dissolution of the ego or something like that. But it is not like that. Nothing is hidden. You see? Our deepest intentions cannot be hidden from the mind. [Chuckles] It’s like ‘I know how to play now. Okay, okay.’ [Laughter in the room] Yeah; you know? ‘I feel so angry with this one. This is the most terrible person! Yes, yes, my mind, I love you. You’re good. You’re completely right. Yeah, you must…’ You see? Like that. It tries to use that as a strategy. And the mind will also play along and say ‘Yeah, you know this. Give more and more [love], yeah.’ You know? And you keep waiting … ‘When is it going to go?’ [Chuckles] ‘I’m loving it so it can go.’ [Chuckles] These are ‘pristine ploys’ I call that. [Smiles]

It is not like that. You have to get out of this game of the opposites. If you resist it with the intent of it going, it does seem to grow; it does seem to get more and more of your attention. But if you resist it with the devious plan of loving it to death, then also it does not dissolve. It’s very much part of the play; not hidden, your motives, from your mind. If you feel like you can keep your motive secret that ‘Actually, I’m only loving you so that you can go away’ it does not work like that. If you want to love, then love; with no expectation of outcome. Love everything. Be open, love everything.

But if you carry these sort of tactics …, where we have some super-strategy that ‘I will just be rid of it’ …, because at the root of it is that feeling of being tormented. We have recognized that the tormentor is this mind and then we’re are trying to create a war strategy as to how to approach it. Now, better than strategy and tactics, is just to see: What is being tormented? Who am I?

So, then you see that ‘The tormentor is just an idea that I have because I’m attached to some other concepts from the mind itself, then the mind comes in opposition to them, then I feel like there is suffering’ (the mind through this way of appearance [hand pointing to his head] or the mind through another mouth, it makes no difference).

So, when we drop all our tactics and our ploys and leave the Unborn as Unborn, then no struggle.

Although outwardly in your life-events or something like that, it might seem like there is a struggle. So, I am not talking about ‘the coconut’ [body/mind identity]. I am talking about your inward openness. (And ‘inward’ is also a provisional truth I am using. There is no ‘inward’ or ‘outward.’)

So, neither this nor that.

Q: Free to be natural.

A: Free. Freedom itself conveys a great pointer, you see. Could freedom mean that ‘I have to take a particular position’? [Smiles] Then it can’t be freedom.

So, freedom is not having the body appearance be this way or that way. And that’s why the Sages are very good: if you take photos of ten Sages, you will see that all of them seem to have a very different expression. [Smiles] Even [the photos] in this room. Although Maharaj [Sri Nisargadatta] is smiling in this room. [Sangha laughs] If you can call that a smile. [Chuckles] Papaji [Sri Poonja] has a big grin. Papaji has this big grin and Maharaj [Sri Nisargadatta] has, at best, what you can call his biggest smile that I have ever seen. [Sangha laughs] And Bhagavan [Sri Ramana Maharshi] has a very neutral face, just full of grace. You know, you cannot say whether he is…., it’s like a Mona Lisa smile. [Sweet laughter] And Guruji [Sri Mooji] has a very benevolent expression in this photo right now. So, it’s just like this.

So, if freedom meant that it has to become like ‘What should the expression become? Should it become like assertive or it should it become like very smiley, smiley all the time?’ …, it’s nothing like that.

Q: One thing, Father, I have been observing in the play that relationships, in general, like within the Sangha, with the Guru, with a few people, with family whom you connect as harmonious, especially in the business circle, work circle, even something in relationships, there’s always this assertiveness: that one appearance tries to make it over the other that ‘I am right’. Even in negotiations, you know? Politicians do that all the time. ‘My position is stronger, you better listen to me.’ So, after some time, after coming to Satsang, earlier I was too much like that, you know? I was on top of everything, I never used to tolerate if someone used to …

A: One up-man-ship.

Q: Yes, one up-man-ship. After Satsang I became …, for a while there was a time like ‘I just don’t care about anything.’ But slowly, when I got pulled into work, there was lot more complacency or tolerant of these things. So, what I observed is that, after some time, so-called other appearances started taking me for granted and kept on stepping more and more and more and more and more and because I didn’t react, there came a point where I was like ‘Enough!’

A: Yeah, being treated like a doormat.

Q: Yeah. This happened not only at work but even at home (not with my wife, but my brother’s wife). She was very disrespectful. I never used to say anything in her presence … You know? So, I don’t know… [Laughs]

A: The thing is that either position that we take, if we make a reference point back to the limited body and say ‘I’m now going to be open. Therefore, just one aspect of my expression within this Consciousness (which is this body) should then become open.’ Then we take the opposite position that ‘This one now should become assertive.’ So, our reference point again keeps getting drawn back to this body identification. So, if you let this one be as free as you let every expression of Consciousness be, then…?

So, one day assertive, one day open, one day … (seemingly, from the outside, it can seem like this particular expression). That’s why the Masters are very difficult to put a finger on. Like, say, for Guruji [Sri Mooji] ‘How is he?’ Sometimes you will say ‘He is so open, like a child, just completely open’ and one day you will say ‘He is very clear about his assertiveness’ or something like that. So, you can’t place it because they are not putting themselves in any box [Chuckles] and they are allowing all things to unfold in that same way.

So, leave this one. Don’t predict what it’s going to be like in the next moment. Don’t make a new position. Like you can have a position of passivity and then you can have a position of aggressiveness or assertivity. But don’t take that new position. If you are holding onto a position of passivity, leave that. Leave that, but leave it empty of a new position. Then see how it unfolds. Then sister-in law wouldn’t know how to behave. [Laughter]

Q: That’s why I ‘gave it’ one day; like that burst happened ‘You better be…!’ Like that. And she was like ‘What happened?’ And the same thing in the office; it happened ‘To hell with you!’

A: So, don’t make a judgment about yourself based on that. Neither guilt nor pride, neither of them. Nor say ‘Okay, this is working better.’ Because it doesn’t work like that; life doesn’t work like. If there was a clear position that you can take and say ‘This is how life works! I will just be assertive.’ It doesn’t work like that. Many try that and they come back to their openness; many try passivity and they come back to the openness. So, don’t try to take a stance and say ‘Okay, now it’s like this, like that’. Moment to moment stances, positions …, because this is a realm of activity after all. So, from the outer seeming-perspective it might seem like you’re this stance, that stance, or something might continue for some time; but inwardly, you’re open.

Now, it’s very good that you spot this also because many times in spirituality we do end up taking this position of sheepishness. We do end up taking this position of passivity. But even that gets dissolved. So, neither side of the spectrum; that’s why I am saying: No opposites, no opposites. [Smiles] Nothing is right or wrong, nothing is true or false. And don’t make that reference point back to the ‘me’ which will use this appearance of this particular body to convince you of its tangibility or something like that.

Q: Somewhere I had made reference to behavior, saying that ‘It’s okay, we should be more tolerant, we should be …’

A: This is it. So, these don’t work. [Laughter] Like when you take a position and say ‘Oh, I’ll just be very tolerant’ then these kinds of experiences can happen. And if you take the opposite position ‘I’m just going to take no nonsense from anyone now!’ even that gets squeezed out. It does feel like (for a while, it can feel like) ‘Wow, this is some power!’ You feel like some power is coming back but it’s still the wrong engine; it’s still powering the wrong engine [Chuckles] Temporarily it might feel like a ‘feel good’ is there but it’s not advised that you take up this kind of thing.

Just empty of all stances, there is an openness for the body to exhibit naturally whatever stance has to come up in that moment. And then, for a while, you will feel like a sense of wonder is there. ‘Oh, how did this happen? How did this one say this?’ Like that. And sometimes, in the most difficult-seeming circumstances (as you say) there can be complete tolerance. And sometimes with a slightest [disturbance] ‘What’s going on here!’ Nobody should be able to draw a picture of Shiva. ‘This is how this one is going to be.’ Because you are not able to draw a picture YourSelf.

Q: This feeling of getting hurt; someone in the play is being (or perceived as being) disrespectful …, this also comes from identification?

A: We can break it down a bit more. In the sense that the feeling is a feeling but the ‘getting hurt’ is the idea that the mind attaches to the appearance of that sensation.

Q: Yeah, pain; like sensation, uncomfortable.

A: Some discomfort or some contraction, all these are the labels that the mind uses. And then it says like ‘Ah, this one is hurting you’ or ‘How could he treat me like this?’ Whatever the justification for allowing yourself to get identified with that limited sensation is, all that justification comes form the mind. So, it is not that the feeling should not arise (just like that mouth was speaking and some noise came from there, just like some other noise can come from here) some sensational (we don’t even have to say) response, just appearances of various things. But when we allow the mind to convince us, or when Consciousness buys into the story of the mind and starts to pretend, to take itself to be the limited entity, that is called identification or ego.

And ego (as I have been saying) is just the resistance. It is the opposite of openness. Openness means that all sensations can come and go, without even a judgment about them saying ‘This is this, this is that, I know what this is.’ That is usually what gets us in trouble already. To make a conclusion about what something is, is never what it is. So, already when we buy into that, the fishing rod is out and the bait is in the water. [Chuckles] Then the mind just needs to come and say ‘See, this one makes you feel hurt!’ Because you already defined hurt, you already defined unfairness or you already defined what you were right about. [Chuckles]

Now, if you couldn’t say what you are right about at all, what can hurt you?

If someone says ‘The right way to do this is ABC’ or ‘The right way to do it is XYZ’ …, does it matter? Because you’re not attached to either. What will happen is that there will be a protest ‘But, this is right! Come on! Let’s get real!’ [Chuckles] Not necessarily; I am saying generally the mind’s protest is like that. When you’re being asked to look and we say ‘Take neither position’ you are like ‘But this does seem like it is more right.’ That’s why I said ‘If it has an opposite, it has no substantial Truth in it; it is only at best a provisional truth, a temporary sort of position which can seem important or relevant for that period of time. Just like the words of Satsang; in the words of Satsang also there is no Truth but, in a way, they are spoken because they are provisional truths at the moment, so that they can do the job of cleaning up, and then they are discarded as well.

Q: Can you elaborate a little more?

A: So, how to get hurt without knowing anything?

Like if you were an infant, if you are seven-months old and someone comes and says ‘You should not be like this, you should be this way!’ will that hurt you? [Laughs] You wouldn’t understand. It’s just some words ‘Tana, na, na, na, na, na.’ So, it’s only our conceptual house of cards which gets shaken up when these concepts seem to appear from the outside or seem to appear from this mind. And this emptiness is available every moment.

So, now it’s only if you have a concept of something which you feel is right, then that can come and get poked. The same words, if you were carrying the same concept, then they would serve as an affirmation, an approval. But you are carrying the opposite concept so it can seem like an attack, an ability to cause hurt.

Guruji [Sri Mooji] has this example, but let me have a variation to that example. Suppose the feeling that was arising, same as excitement. ‘Oh, my boss is agreeing with me.’ Like that. When the words were in resonance with the concepts that you have, then you say ‘This is really motivating, inspiring.’ Like that. [Chuckles] But if the words are opposite …, suppose the feeling is just the same but we label it differently and say ‘This is feeling hurt.’ We don’t even know that for sure. It’s just like Guruji says, no? …, that if you have the fear of speaking on stage and somebody says ‘No, you have to speak!’ then ‘Ah, this is stage-fright, I’m so nervous.’ But if you are excited about going on a holiday and the same sort of feeling is there, you say ‘I’m so excited, I’m so happy!’ So, it is this language, these interpretations, which cause a lot of this. We’re not so clear about our emotional spectrum as we think we are. In fact, I have often said that we don’t ever experience the same emotion twice. And I heard that in Germany they have many more terms to describe emotions. Like in English, we have a few: anger, fear, joy, bliss, a few more. But in Germany they have some even subtler sounding emotions ‘Oh, this is what I’m feeling.’ [Chuckles] [Points to someone from Germany in the Sangha] You know this? You can look at this; it’s something I read a few years ago.

So, what makes hurt ‘hurt’?

Q: Labeling it as hurt.

A: See, if you can see it, then it is game over. [Chuckles] If you can see that, that the label itself is…

Incidentally, I’m not discounting the experience of a sensation; it can be [Makes a gesture of a sad emotion] or it can be [Makes gesture of a happy emotion] naturally. But just like children; they go through that, but a child is not reporting, saying ‘Pa, ten minutes ago, I was feeling a lot of joy, now that has been replaced by grief because you didn’t give me candy.’ [Chuckles] That story is not there. Just a normal movement is allowed to unfold.

But when we label it and say ‘I’m related to that sensation in some way’ we make a reference point again about an ‘I’ and a ‘me’. Then that can become a grievance, a resentment, a sense of having to retaliate. All of these like second level emotions, they are not independent of thought activity. Like you can feel a contraction, but you can’t make a resentment out of it unless you mix it with a concept. You can experience something but you can’t make guilt out of it unless you mix it with ‘I should not have done that.’ Doer-ship = ‘me’ identity. These things children are not good at; all of us as parents know. When they were six, seven-months old, they were crying, crying, crying, if you take the bottle away from them or something; then laughing, laughing, laughing naturally the next moment. But you would not say that a child is feeling guilty about what they did or that the child is resenting you. [Chuckles]

So, these are learned, conditioned things. We need to practice with intellect to make these into conclusions; the ability to give a ‘yes’ and ‘no’ to concepts; this reasoning ability, intellect, to be able to make these conclusions.

That’s why I was saying that the easiest Satsang for me is when you come to me with a completely tired with intellect; you can’t differentiate between this and that. [Chuckles] You’re just like ‘I can’t tell you anymore what has happened to me in the last year. I can’t tell you what I want also.’ [Laughs] It’s just like we have played all these games and we are tired of them; the ability to conclude anything about ourself and say ‘This is what is true about me.’ Because it doesn’t pass the smell test. [Chuckles]

Like if you say ‘This is what is true about me.’

I say ‘Show me’.

What will you show? [Chuckles]

What will you show about yourself Right Now?

That’s why when we look and say: There are a certain set of sensations being experienced but do we really know what they are? …, what they are, before you had a term for them?

Your openness is way beyond the limits that the mind draws for you. Your sensational openness, your perceptual openness, all of this pure phenomenal perceiving can perceive a lot more, without any trouble, than the mind defines for you.

You get a call from Amazon. It is saying ‘The Alexa that you got, your Amazon device; there is something wrong with its programming. It is giving you all lies.’ And what do we do? We got so used to referring to Alexa that we’re saying ‘Alexa, this call came from Amazon. It is saying you are full of lies and nonsense. What do you think about that?’ [Chuckles]

You just keep referring back to this ‘device’ [mental thinking process] because that is the habit.

The Sages are saying that ‘The truth is apparent to You.’ The Sages said ‘Brahman does not come and go; Your ultimate Reality.’ The Buddha said ‘Buddha nature is ever-present and it is never hidden, never concealed.’ All, everything is pointing to This which is naturally just apparent. It is never concealed. They are saying ‘Buddha nature is never concealed. Brahman is always here. The Unborn does not come and go.’ Every Sage is pointing to the same thing.

But we try to contain it on our box, because we think our box is big enough. Even now, the mind might be calling you, saying ‘Be careful, okay? He is a bit strange.’ [Chuckles] Or like ‘Yeah, yeah, this is good but I’m just asking: How am I supposed to live like this?’ [Chuckles] Actually, a popular one which we never ask so much is ‘Just ask him whether you got it or not.’ [Chuckles] You see, these kinds of things will keep selling you these offers to make you buy into that paradigm of limitation again.

Sanga: Some sensation is happening, so that is gone; something like that.

A: Yeah, it will say ‘Because some sensation is coming’ (it could be some anger, it could be some hunger, it could be any sensation) the mind is saying ‘Ah, you can’t be free. If you were free then anger could not come.’

Firstly, we never experience same the thing twice. So, this notion of anger is made up. It is ALL made up! Do I need to explain it over and over? [Chuckles] It is just made-up.

A: Where is it that your mind cannot go?

Q: From where it sprouts, from where it comes.

A: Ah. So, it can only go in the seeming-space between these opposites, from the subtle to the big. So, if you say ‘Okay, what is the subtlest notion you can have?’

Q: I am Awareness.

A: I am Awareness.

Q: I am the Absolute.

A: I am the Absolute. Now what is subtler than that?

Q: The absolute without notion.

A: What is subtler than that? Subtler than that? [Silence] That also. [Laughter] So many concepts got exposed, no? Like ‘I am, I am Awareness, the Absolute’ then just silence. Then subtler than that; just…. subtler than that…

Q: Disappear.

A: Subtler than that. You see? This is a very useful pointer; that which goes even beyond Satsang concepts, or that goes beyond our prior experiences, that goes beyond our past notions, beyond anything that we have learned, or seen or perceived. Some could say ‘The smallest is the tiniest, atom, the string.’ Then ‘The largest, the biggest, BIGGEST…’ What is the biggest? [Chuckles]

Q: Galaxy.

A: Galaxy, universe, multiverse, whatever you call it; but bigger than that. So then, actually what I’m doing is I’m showing you the range of the mind. It will take this starting point and that ending point; but that entire range is nothing for You. You are not continued in that range. But the mind can only operate there. In the same way, you say ‘What is the lowest, what is the highest?’ …, all the opposites you look at, you will see how you have created this box of limitations to that which is the Unlimited One. You take any of the opposites. What is beyond up, UP, the most up? …, and down, DOWN, beyond the most down? If you just sincerely try to answer these questions, you will see that in all these concepts you have made this box; it seems to define you or your life. But You are not in that.

Q: Is it like the story of Arunachala? You are aware of that.

A: Say.

Q: Vishnu and Brahma were one day having a fight, that who is more power full, who is the supreme out of both.

So, the fight got very intense, very heated. Suddenly, Shiva appeared in the form of a Lingam, a column of light. And it was very fascinating and astonishing for both of them. [Vishnu and Brahma] They have never seen anything like this. And they looked up and looked down and they couldn’t find the top and the bottom of the Lingam.

So, Brahma became a swan. He said ‘Let me go and check out how high it is.’ And Vishnu became a bore. And he said ‘Let me dig in the earth and see how deep it is so we can figure out what this thing is.’ Much time passed … then they returned. Brahma returned defeated saying ‘Hey, I could not find the top. As high as I went, it continued proceeding.’ Similarly, Vishnu said that ‘I couldn’t find.’ Then Shiva appeared and said ‘I am the boss.’ [Chuckles]

A: It is a very beautiful story. Because this…

Q: And that place is where Arunachala has manifested; the physical form of Arunachala.

A: So, this Shiva …, this is what I am saying; This un-born, This which is not limited by these concepts of up and down, true and false, left and right, good and bad; empty of these distinctions.

And it is not difficult. It can feel like ‘But that is so difficult.’ It is not difficult. Actually, it’s just a simple return to innocence, to our child-like nature. And how to return? It just IS. Here Now.

And what is it to lose that innocence? To pretend to know something. [Smiles] To pretend to know.

So, ‘to know one thing’ is the seeming-loss of this innocence. That’s why I’ve been saying ‘To know one thing is to know too much.’

Don’t even know that ‘I know nothing.’ Make no conclusion about yourself in the realm of opposites. And then you will find that if you go searching in the mind for something which is beyond opposites, you will find that there are no neutral thoughts.

Now some of you will say ‘But that is too open. It is too much. TOO MUCH. I need one concept at least; something to hold onto.’ The Sages have provided this. They have provided ‘Who am I?’ That’s enough; one concept. ‘Who am I?’ is enough. Or ‘Guru Kripa Kevalam, All is the will of Consciousness, Let Thy will be done.’ All these. [‘Stay as the Is-ness’ sangha says] Yes, ‘Stay as the Isness.’ Anything that appeals to you in your heart, you can use that one concept because it is self-dissolving.

Sometimes it is just this ‘prisoner syndrome’. Just like that.

What would you do with yourself if you no longer had to seek something?

If you are no longer waiting for that final push?

If you are no longer feeling that you are almost there?

And it is false to say that ‘If I had some experience, then I’d be fine. If I had some awakening experience.’ So many get caught up even in that and keep referring to themselves only in the past then. Because you have one awakening experience and then for your rest of your life you are just referring to yourself in that way. ‘In that moment (five years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago) I saw that we are One.’ So what? For twenty years after that, you got stuck in the past. How does it help? [Smiles] It is not freedom at all.

So, it is not about having an experience or not. It is not about having some sort of phenomenal awakening or something like this. It is not about an event. It is not about a state. It is about that ‘nothing’ that the mind can’t understand. It is about that No-thing that the mind can’t understand.

[Silence]

It is not about ‘I think I understand now that I cannot understand it.’ You see? It’s not that. It is not just word-play like that. It is just a letting go.

As long as you make a reference about yourself using a limited concept, using any concept (because all concepts are limiting) you are still caught up in the idea of ‘the one that was born’ …, not in the un-born.

[Silence]

Some hand gestures in the air are happening. [Referring to someone in sangha] You can’t shake it off like that. [Using his hand to mimic shaking out the head] ‘My head is too much full of thoughts. So, let me [shake it out of there]. Go!’ [Chuckles]

Even the thought that ‘My thoughts are so much a problem’ … is just a thought.

Like ‘I am so full of thoughts; when will these thoughts stop?’ … that itself is a thought.

I was asking: What is it that is inside the body, but it is not outside the body? Who is that one?

I’m questioning the very basis on which we make this divide of ‘me and the world’ and ‘me and other’ and ‘me and mine’.

What is in your hand which is not in the space outside your hand? [Smiles]

Who is that one sitting there?

Is there someone sitting there?

So, as long as we use any event or any thought or any emotion or any sensation or any perception of any sort to make a division, then we fall prey to this sort of duality. We fall prey to duality and duality equals suffering. There is no suffering without duality.

Behind all confusion is only the confusion about who we are.

There is actually no other confusion in the world.

And this confusion is made up.

But behind all seeming-confusion is confusion about who we are. And the mind has some usual trump cards. It only has some regular things. It will say ‘Okay, I see that there is nobody or I am everything. But then, how am I supposed to deal with this situation?’ … ‘How am I supposed to deal with this situation?’ Even in that question, we make a presumption about who we are, like an individual entity having to deal with an individual situation. The one that is running this universe obviously cannot deal with the individual life. [Smiles] This is the presumption we make. It can do all of this; trillions of stars, all this functioning of bodies, so many different creatures, so much happening in every single moment of appearance, but one life, it cannot lead. That needs a ‘me’. ‘That’s okay. I can’t find this ‘me’ but it needs a ‘me’.  At least, it gives me some sense of control over something.’ This false sense of control is really what the ego is all about.

So, as we let go of this idea, what stops?  I can see here that this idea was let go of, but these words continue. These hands move, these feet move, they carry me wherever. So, nothing stopped. We have as much control over this body as we have over every body. [Chuckles] All of it is just appearing in the light of My Consciousness. I am speaking as You, on Your behalf.

All of this is nothing but movements of light in Your own pristine light. It is that light in which even the sun is seen.

But we have confused ourselves to be something limited, something small, something with the duration between birth and death. Isn’t it? And we have been taught this. It is not natural to us. And because we have been taught this by the seeming-world and this mind for a long time then it can seem like we go through a long time of really looking. Looking: “Is there such an entity called me?’ till we become ready to drop this belief.

If something does not have a tangible existence, if something does not exist, can’t you still believe that it does? Do you not have this power? You do. In the same way, this individual identity does not actually exist; it is just a belief that you have.

So, in this way, as you let go of this limited notion, limited identity, you will find that your life has lot more space. Everything is allowed without trying to control it, without trying to maneuver it. And by the way, I’m not speaking about the actions of the body, I’m speaking about our inner attitude. The body will still seem to be taking a stance this way or that way. Like even speaking about neutrality, we are making an assertion. [Smiles] Even in Satsang, we are saying ‘Bring yourself back to neutrality’ but even that is not a neutral statement. So, any activity will appear to have a stance in the spectrum of activity. But what I’m referring to is our inner openness …, to become so, so open that even this concept of inner and outer dissolves.

The one that is moving every body is moving your body.

You never have to figure out what you have to do. [Smiles] You never have to figure out what you have to do.

[Responding to someone in the Sangha who had just shared something]

A: It is very good that you expose it. It is very good to bring it out. Sometimes it can just feel like a lot when it is left un-exposed; it can seem to keep festering. And many times, it happens that as all of you share your reports, you can hear yourself; like you said that ‘I hear the words that come out and I don’t find the real substance about them; I don’t find the real basis about them.’ And this is very good to see as well. Because when things are brought out then you can see that all of this has a reference to some sort of a ‘me’. But this ‘me’ actually, I find no substance for it. And that’s why, even as I’m sharing, I’m hearing these words come out but I can’t find the reference to which they are actually being spoken.

Now, I don’t know what is the best way to say this but I want to tell you that: We never know what anything is about. We never know what anything is about. So, it’s only when we make correlations that we can struggle. Like when something is appearing, when we make it about something, then it seems to bring the whole history, past, story, everything back into it. But if you just leave it for ‘What Is’ …, if we leave whatever is appearing in ‘What Is’ to resolve itself then it doesn’t seem like so much of struggle.

At any layer of our existence, whether it is out in the world (and ‘out in the world’ includes the movement of this body) then whether it is sensations that we experience as the body, or it is thoughts that we experience that we call the mind, or it is emotions that we are experiencing, any sensations, even energies that we might be experiencing …, and most importantly, our very existence, our Being …, it must be left without any conditions. It is only when we attach a conclusion to it that we seem to be able to struggle. That is why the great Master Bankei said that ‘All things are perfectly resolved in the unborn.’

Now, what is this un-born? This un-born is just … this; this ‘Is-ness’.

If you try to manipulate this ‘Is-ness’ with any concept, that is suffering. If you try to maneuver (‘maneuver’ may be a better word) this ‘Is-ness’ with any concept, you start to suffer.

I get a feel also for what you’re saying. But I’m advising to not even make a correlation between what you were saying; ‘outside’ and ‘inside’. We actually don’t know what this ‘outside’ and ‘inside’ is. Why I’m advising you not to make any correlations like that is because in that correlation, you are also making dividing line about you. You are saying that ‘This is inside me and that is outside me.’ So, either treat everything as inside or nothing as inside, but don’t make a line that divides ‘you’ and the ‘other’ or ‘you’ and the ‘world’ …, you which is inside, and the you which is outside. Because it is this division which can lead to a lot of confusion as well. Like the body boundary, what does it actually divide? Who is there inside the body that is not there outside the body?

Sometimes what happens is that after hearing all this in Satsang, the one doubt that can get to you is ‘But that’s a bit too much, it’s a bit too much. Let’s get real! How am I supposed to go to work like that? Or run my family like that?’ These kinds of doubts can still get to us. And you know, they are familiar ones so they feel a bit comfortable. They’re not posing as if they will give you some frustration or they’re not posing as if they are guilt or something. They’re just like these mellow sort of doubts; like subtle, very friendly doubts. [Laughs] They just pose as if they are friendly. ‘Yes, yes, this is all okay but now, come on, I have to go to work, so let’s [get real].’ [Laughs] And again, I’m not speaking about the actions of the body. In the actions, you can completely be the boss at work; whatever needs to unfold can unfold naturally. All of that can still unfold from your inner emptiness, from your conceptual emptiness, inner spaciousness, inner openness.

So, there is no reason ever to believe in your heart that you are the limited one. Whether it comes to work, family; anything. All of that can unfold naturally from openness, from your ‘Unborn’. That’s such a beautiful reassuring line from the Master:

‘All things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn.’

What other guarantee do you want? [Laughs] He said ‘All things!’ But if you have an idea, (just to give you a tip: [Chuckles] If you still have an idea of what ‘perfectly resolved’ means then that will cause you some trouble. Because that is not the Unborn. All things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn, without you having the notion of what is perfectly resolved. If you are thinking perfectly resolved means: that body which you think you now inhabit will have a halo now [Chuckles] it will have some special qualities or something like this, then it doesn’t have to turn out like that. So, ‘the Unborn’ means that we leave all notions about everything …, without even the notion of dropping it. Just … [Makes gesture of nothing]

It’s nothing, it’s just nothing! It’s just like concepts. All of you are starting to recognize now that what is beating you up, when you seem to have this beaten-up look [Chuckles] is just a concept. Just like that hundred-handed or thousand-handed creature in the Yoga Vashista who was suffering so much, because in every hand seemed to have a weapon, and what is he doing? He is hitting himself.

‘Why are you suffering?’

‘Because these hands are hitting me’.

Then what happens?

The sage comes, the Sage comes and then says: ‘Ask yourself, who Am I?’

So, one of these creatures, it takes this question to heart, and the hands start falling off. What are these hands? Just notions, beliefs that you have about yourself, they are beating you up. When you ask yourself ‘Who am I?’ then these hands start falling off.

Then another one, the same, a thousand-handed creature; the Master says ‘Ask yourself, who am I?’ The creature reacts ‘Why are you attacking me? If you can’t help, leave me alone!’

Another one just runs away. [Makes gesture of running away]

Because all these thousand notions are about one that doesn’t exist. And when the question is asked ‘Who am I?’ it knows that all these notions can have no power left now. All our doubts, everything that is after the ‘But, but … something, something, something; what about this? What about that?’ … is about who?

The Unborn? Or the born?

[Smiles]

Do we have a problem about our Unborn?

[Smiles]

Give your mind enough time, it will make one.

[Chuckles]

What is the struggle then? The struggle is that: to this inner teacher, the mental teacher that we are used to referring to, it has no idea about the Unborn. Even when it picks up ideas about it, it really has no idea. That’s why it struggles, that is why it’s not giving you the certification. It is saying ‘But, what is this? How to live my life?’ … all this same old stuff.

Imagine that you bought a device which was messed up in its programming. [Chuckles] You bought Alexa’s evil twin. [Laughs] And now the company is calling you.

Amazon is calling you saying:

‘Sorry, we shipped you the wrong product, it is not telling you the Truth about yourself.’

You’re like: ‘No, but it’s been my friend for so long.’ [Laughs]

‘But, Madam! It is not telling you the Truth.’

‘Come on, I have relied on it for so long. Maybe you are mistaken.’

‘No! We are not mistaken! We know it is not…’

[Laughter]

But the bigger thing is: The company calls you and says:

‘We shipped you the fake product or a false batch. One of our programmers was just messing around and made this thing.’

You get this call saying that ‘The Alexa that you have is fake.’

Then what you do?

You say: ‘Alexa, I got a call saying that Alexa is fake. What do you feel?’

[Laughter] You will all laugh at this but this is what you are doing. You are going back to the same mind saying ‘What do you think about this? This one is sitting there and saying that what you are saying is not true about you. What do you think?’ [Laughter] And then it seems like this strange conversation.

So, your own intuitive Presence is reminding you that: ‘This is just not true!’ But if you’re going to the voice of the untruth and saying ‘What do you think about this concept that what you are saying is not true?’ … what do you feel it will say?

Q: It will say ‘It is true’.

A: ‘Yeah, I know but you are still so caught up in this.’ See? Something. [Chuckles] And you will buy something that it is saying. ‘Yeah, of course, it is true. I know it is not speaking the truth, but when will I be rid of this?’ You see? Like it will attach some ‘something’ there which keeps you caught in the limited identity again. So you just have to throw it whole hog. Just … [Makes the sound of throwing] And you don’t even have to throw it; it is gone. Nobody can tell me that it is not gone Now. Now! Now! If I give you a moment, you will … [Chuckles]

So, if the problem is gone, then…? It’s just our habit. Sometimes what happens is that if you have been in prison for thirty years and you are let out, then you start to find it very strange. You miss the prison routine; you want to hold the bars [Makes gesture of holding the bars] and feel sorry for yourself. [Laughter] ‘Now that it is not there, what am I supposed to do? I have been seeker for so long’. [Laughter]

Then if someone comes and says ‘But you are free!’  [Makes gesture of being unconvinced]: ‘I don’t like this. I was comfortable in that zone of seeker. I just had that little bit to go.’ We’ve all had that ‘little bit to go’ for many years. [Laughs] Like ‘Somebody has to push me off the cliff!’ [Laughs] We have been waiting for that final push for twenty years (some of us). [Chuckles] It’s just like ‘Finally somebody will just push us off the cliff’.

Hasn’t it been many years you felt like you were almost there? [Chuckles] We have been in this ‘almost there’ for a long, long time. It is the ‘almost there’ itself which (when it has belief) then you are fully caught up.

So, you are free Now. Show me how you are bound?

Don’t tell me what you think about it, because then it’s the same conversation (phone conversation). Show me how you are bound. [Looks at the questioner] Show me your chains.

Wasn’t it the French (Voltaire or something?) who said something like this:

‘Man is born free and yet he is everywhere in chains.’